Talk:List of works based on Peter Pan

Fair use rationale for Image:PeterPan1.jpg

Image:PeterPan1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:PeterPanPoster2.jpg

Image:PeterPanPoster2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use images

Contrary to what User:Papa November asserts in his edit summaries, fair-use images are permitted in "list" articles. There are even guidelines for how it should/n't be done. It says that "non-free images should be used judiciously to present the key visual aspects of the topic" and "images that are used only to visually identify elements in the article should be used as sparingly as possible." I believe the usage in this article was both judicious and sparing. It says that "It is inadvisable to provide a non-free image for each entry in such an article or section," and the article did not. The guidelines say to restrict usage "as agreed to by editor consensus", and there is no basis in these guidelines for the unilateral removal of all fair use images from the article. - JasonAQuest (talk) 16:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Oops - it looks like I've been a bit overzealous. However, in the context of this article, there were only actually two images with non-free fair use rationales for them to appear here. I've added them both back in to the article, but their fair use rationales really need a lot of work still. It's still unclear from the fair-use rationales why you specifically need to show Image:PeterPan1.jpg and Image:PeterPanPoster2.jpg. Are those productions especially notable? As said in the guidelines, it's inadvisable to provide an illustration for every list item. You'll need to decide which items (if any) need to be illustrated, and how best to do it. Papa November (talk) 17:41, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Self published?

Isn't R Scott Leatherwood's prequel self-published as well? Global Quest Publishing is not a mainstream publisher and its president is the author himself. Looks suspiciously like vanity press to me... Stelmaris (talk) 14:33, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed that, but you're apparently right. - Jason A. Quest (talk) 16:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Hook and Peter by Doram Jacoby

(Books – fiction:)

Hook and Peter by Doram Jacoby (2013).

—Haim Berman (talk) 15:03, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

This is self published on Createspace. Are there any independent reliable sources? Darrelljon (talk) 07:35, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

External links modified

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Self-published works

The following titles have been removed as self-published sources (or non-notable). See WP:SPS

• Neverland: The Early Adventures of Peter Pan by R. Scott Leatherwood (2001), an unauthorized prequel novel, to Peter and Wendy that aims to answer those seventeen questions that haven't been addressed.
• Wendy by Karen Wallace (2003), an unauthorised prequel for young adults. An attempt to explain the Darling children's willingness to fly away with Peter on the grounds that their home life, up until shortly before Peter appeared, had been filled with abuse and tragedy: a cruel nanny, a criminally irresponsible father, and a suggestion of insanity in the family.
• Peter Pan's NeverWorld by Peter Von Brown (2008) an unofficial sequel set presumably in contemporary times. Based upon Sir J. M. Barrie's idea to expand the adventures of Peter Pan with his genuine unused notes and unfinished drafts concerning Peter Pan's younger brother.
• The Wendy That Stayed by A.M. Bell (2008). Originally a follow up to events straight after Peter and Wendy.
• Never After by Dan Elconin (2009) A novel for new adult or young adults depicting Captain Hook as the anti-hero protagonist facing off against an antagonistic Peter Pan.
• Second on the Right by Elizabeth Los (2012). An alternate history origin of James Hook who must rescue his son from becoming the latest host body to Pan.
• Tales of the Airship Neverland by John R. White (Createspace, 2012). First of the Tales of the Airship Neverland tetralogy of J. M. Barrie's characters into a parallel universe setting. This steampunk or dieselpunk retelling set in an alternate history version of the early victorian times, features Neverland as a state of the art airship that is a mobile community in the sky.
• Neverland's Lament by Jason Medici (2013). An alternate history version to Peter and Wendy and what happens after.
• Nevermor by Lani Lenore (Createspace, 2013). First of the young adult Nevermor trilogy transplanting facsimiles of J. M. Barrie's characters into a parallel universe setting. This alternate history retelling set in early victorian times depicts a re-named Wendy Darling and her brothers as orphans who wind up in a different version of Neverland.
• Peter Pan: Betwixt-and-Between by Peter Von Brown (Createspace, 2013) a interquel. Based upon Barrie's genuine unused notes and unfinished drafts set between Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens and Peter and Wendy.
• The Adventures of Peter Pan Series by David Earl set during the events after Hook in which an elderly Peter Pan finds himself up against the son of Captain Hook.
  • Son of Hook (Createspace, 2014)
  • The Secret of Skeleton Bay (Createspace, 2014)
• The Fall of Peter Pan by K.L. Webber (2014). First of The Neverland Chronicles serial adapted from Barrie's genuine earlier discarded writtings to create a different take to the original text of Peter and Wendy.
• The Pan: Experiencing Neverland by Matthew Eldridge (Createspace, 2015). An alternative origin story to Peter Pan that presents the tale in a realistic format.
• Peter Pan part of the urban-toons series by Antoinette Truitt and King Ki'el (2015), featuring facsimiles of Barrie's characters that depicts Peter Pan as leader of a group of escaped runaway child slaves.
• The Boy Who Wouldn't Grow Up: An Unofficial Sequel To Peter & Wendy by Burgandi Rakoska (2016). A hospital child patient is whisked away to Neverland.
• Shelby and the Lost Boy of Misbegot Islands by John Edward Byrd (2016). First of a postponed Mpeta serial transplanting facsimiles of Barrie's characters into a parallel universe setting. In 1970's Brooklyn three New Yorker siblings wind up on a hidden island in the Caribbean.
• Silver Scars: A Peter Pan Twist by Renata Marie (Createspace, 2016). Reality and Fantasy collides when Kyle Darling and his parents are kidnapped, Adela Nora Darling must uncover the truth behind the story of Neverland and Peter Pan.
• Son of Pan by Christopher Jalil (2016). In this Tinker Bell recruits Peter Pan's pre-teen offspring to save Neverland.[1]
• The Death of Neverland by Serena Mossgraves (Independent, 2017), a more adult themed tale concerning the parts of Neverland and it's more secretive history that are normally left out.
• Kingdom of Hook: The Terrifying Origin of Peter Pan’s Nemesis by Joshua B. Gibbs (Createspace, 2017), adapted from Barrie's genuine earlier discarded writings to create a backstory to Captain Hook.
• Pan by Maggie Stewart (2017). A contemporary tale of a teenage girl who meets someone who might be Peter Pan.
• Lost Girl by R. M. Archer (Independent, 2018). Following the exploits of Nya, the granddaughter of Captain Hook and her relationship with Peter Pan.
• Nightmare of Neverland by Todd Feren (Independent, 2018). First of The Nightmare series serial featuring nightmarish caricatures of well known literary characters.
• The Pirate Princess Chronicles Series (self-published) by R. V. Bowman, a trilogy adventure series featuring the long lost daughter of Captain Hook. Currently being adapted into a live action TV series.
  • Hook's Daughter: The Untold Tale of a Pirate Princess (2018)
  • Pan's Secret: A Pirate Princess's Quest for Answers (2019)
  • Neverland's Key: A Pirate Princess's Last Chance (2019)
• Darling: Never Ever Neverland by K.T. Hanna (self-published, 2019). Following events of Peter and Wendy, Wendy Darling must come to the aid of orphans who are being recruited into a thieving ring.
• The Never: A Tale of Peter and the Fae by Don Jones (Independent, 2019). An alternative origin story to the creation of Neverland and the arrival of Peter Pan. [2]
• Peter Pan Prequels Series by Baby Black (Indepedent, 2019). An Ebook trilogy set during an alternative origin story to Peter Pan prior to events leading up to Peter and Wendy. [3]
• Lost by Nicholle Pugmire (Independent, 2021). In this re-telling Winnifred Elizabeth Darling finds herself on a ship full of Lost Ones unsure of how she got there or how to get home. [4]
• Forgotten by Nicholle Pugmire (Independent, 2022). A follow on to Lost in which one Lost Boy seeks to get back to the Never. [5]
• Petra: A Novel Based On The Peter Pan Universe by Miranda R Urena and illustrated by James A Knox (Independent, 2022), a contemporary re-telling featuring Peter Pan's younger sister.
• The Lost Girl by Allison Spooner (self-published, 2023). Great granddaughter of Peter Pan; Lady Pan is dying of a terminal illness unless Neverland can save her. [6]

References

Darrelljon (talk) 21:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Totally agree. Stelmaris (talk) 21:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Some of the titles remaining are merely 'inspired by' the characters and some titles are prequels, canonical or in-universe sequels so there might be better ways to distinguish these. Darrelljon (talk) 23:03, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

How about we create a section of self-published works on the List of works based on Peter Pan as some Peter Pan's NeverWorld and Peter Pan: Betwixt-and-Between by Peter Von Brown use the exact unused notes and drafts from Sir J. M. Barrie (Redacted) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Peter-Wendy-Restored-Text-Annotated/dp/098237142X Don't you think he therefore deserves to have his work with the other List of works based on Peter Pan CSOOCS (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 11:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia frowns on self-published sources, see the policy at WP:SPS. Peter Pan's NeverWorld (2008) is self-published at Lulu and Peter Pan: Betwixt-and-Between (2013) is self-published at CreateSpace. I looked for suitable sources on Peter Von Brown (see WP:RS) and only found a single one at https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/mono/10.4324/9780203139172/peter-pan-shadows-literary-imagination-kirsten-stirling. By way of contrast, Peter Pan in Scarlet (Oxford University Press, 2006) is a sequel authorised by Great Ormond Street Hospital so has an authenticity in that sense that the others do not. Darrelljon (talk) 20:13, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Then at least allow in the article of List of works based on Peter Pan a nod to Peter Von Brown since he is recognized as J.M. Barrie scholar (Redacted) For your suitable sources I suggest looking into webpages regarding Honors at Knox College, I'm sure his distinction is on the website somewhere otherwise where would the likes of amazon get it from? Since clearly both of you are established Users Darrelljon and Stelmaris CSOOCS (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Amazon don't write the description, publishers/authors do themselves. Amazon also wouldn't check claims in the description. Only one irrelevant result comes up for Peter Von Brown when I search at Knox College https://www.knox.edu/google?q=peter%20von%20brown Darrelljon (talk) 03:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Where would we draw the line on what self-published work is acceptable and what isn't? Von Brown probably wrote his own blurb on Amazon. His ideas for the sequel and prequel might have been inspired by Barrie's notes, but that doesn't mean the execution was remarkable in any way. The fact that mainstream publishers did not take him up does suggest that his works were not up to standard - so he paid to get them published, without proper editing. The same would apply to other vanity publishing authors. Please let's leave self-published works out of Wikipedia. Stelmaris (talk) 06:48, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Category:Self-published books has 129 pages and Peter Von Brown's works may be remarkable and sought after (now or in future) by mainstream publishers, a high standard and well-edited, but inclusion in Wikipedia is according to policies on reliable sources. There are barely any on Peter Von Brown despite using custom searches available at WP:FIND via WP:RS. Is his scholarship available anywhere or any reference to it? Darrelljon (talk) 13:20, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

The Boy Who Disliked Mothers: The Story of Narcissus' Son, A Jamaican/Yard Man Peter Pan Retelling of Abandonment, Healing, and Self-Discovery/Found Boys: A Peter Pan Retelling

Are either of the following titles allowed on List of works? The Boy Who Disliked Mothers: The Story of Narcissus' Son, A Jamaican/Yard Man Peter Pan Retelling of Abandonment, Healing, and Self-Discovery by L.A Drecketts Found Boys: A Peter Pan Retelling by Leigh G. It appears Found Boys might be independently published but it isn't clear on the other. Also Peter Pan part of the urban-toons series might not be entirely self-published as Urban-Toons series may not be entirely independent but might belong to some sort of publisher. Plus Shelby and the Lost Boy of Misbegot Islands has been published more than once over the years maybe not all of them were done through independent means? It might not be relevant but was Son of Pan by Christopher Jalil (2016) published soley by the author or an independent publisher?

As for Peter Von Brown scholarship available anywhere or any reference to it? I'm still looking but I'm not sure where to look exactly CSOOCS (talk) — Preceding CSOOCS comment added 14:22, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

For Von Brown, look for reliable sources at WP:RSSE or scholarship at JSTOR or Google Scholar. Darrelljon (talk) 04:20, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

All those titles look to be self published at a glance. Darrelljon (talk) 20:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Can you be certain? I only know Found Boys is self published https://urbantoonsinc.com/collections/childrens-books

CSOOCS (talk) — Preceding CSOOCS comment added 20:40, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

All of these titles have definitely been self-published. I've checked each one. Regardless of Peter Von Brown alleged "scholarship", his books are self-published so not worthy of an entry. Stelmaris (talk) 07:45, 26 July 2024 (UTC)