Talk:Brutal Sports Football

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Brutal Sports Football/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Shooterwalker (talk · contribs) 00:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

I can grab this one. Look for more comments in a week, if not sooner. Shooterwalker (talk) 00:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker:OK then! I will keep an eye on the review as i wait for your comments... Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:35, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Let's see how far we can get through a first pass on the article.

Gameplay

• "Brutal Sports Football is a seven-a-side sports game reminiscent of Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe (1990) and Mutant League Football (1993), described as a cross between rugby, football, and soccer." -> this one is a little confusing. I think the comparisons to actual sports are more useful, and should be linked. Perhaps add the inspirations in a second sentence, or in the development section.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:27, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "which originated as a disguised population control operation" -> it's unclear what this means.

 Done -- Changed the sentence... Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "The players have the choice to compete in matches against computer-controlled opponents or other human players across three modes of play available: League, Unfriendly and Knockout." -> "Players compete against each other or computer-controlled opponents, selecting from three modes of play: Unfriendly, Knockout, or League."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "League is the main single-player mode, where the player compete in four league seasons against rival teams." -> "League is the main single-player mode, where the player competes in a league of rival teams across four seasons."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "After winning a match, players earn money depending on their performance in the playfield used in lockers where they manage their chosen team, heal a teammate that got the most damage in-game and more. " -> "Depending on their performance, players are rewarded with money that can be used to manage their team, heal damaged teammates, and purchase other bonuses."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "While it follows the same basic gameplay featured in other football simulators, such as the ability of tackling players and lob the oval-shaped football into the goalpost, there are no rules once a match starts and the game emphasises the violent aspect of the sport, with matches resembling a war as much as a sporting competition." -> "The gameplay is based on various types of football, including an oval-shaped football that should be kicked into a goalpost, and the ability to tackle other players. However, the game is unique in emphasizing violence, as there are no rules against excessive force."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "with or without the ball" -> you can remove this, since it doesn't really say anything

 Done -- Removed the line... Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Each match lasts seven minutes and there are two ways to win: either score higher than the other team or killing six of seven teammates from the opposite side" -> "Victory is awarded to the team with more points after a time limit of seven minutes, or the team that kills six of the seven teammates on the opposing team."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "If either requirement is not meet, the players go immediately into sudden death where six out of seven opponents must be killed in order to win a match." -> "If the match is not over after seven minutes, the players go immediately into sudden death where six out of seven opponents must be killed."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• That last paragraph might actually be a better second paragraph, since it explains the essence of the game.

 Done -- Changed the positioning of the paragraph... Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• " instead of the usual eleven" -> I didn't see any indication that eleven was the usual?

 Done -- Removed the line... Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:51, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Development

• "It was co-produced by Ian Saunter and Tony Love." -> if no reliable secondary sources covered it, this is the type of data that belongs in the infobox, and not much else.

 Done -- Removed the line... Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:01, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Dean Lester devised the game's concept." -> same

 Done -- Removed the line... Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:01, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Other staff members also collaborated in the game's development process." -> again, it's presumed that there were other staff, and this doesn't need to be mentioned

 Done -- Removed the line... Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:01, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "This forced the team with producing an original title but make it "less original" gameplay-wise without being "too far" out to be easily understandable, settling down with a sports thematic with beat 'em up elements." -> "The team was forced to produce another original title, avoiding anything "too far" from their target audience's understanding, thus settling on a sports game with beat 'em up elements."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:01, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• link beat 'em up if you haven't already

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:01, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• "The game was not intended to be violent, but the staff liked the violence and decided making it an integral part." -> "Although the game was not intended to be violent, the staff decided to make it an integral part of the game as it became more enjoyable."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:01, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Release

• " being initially slated" -> "initially slated"

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:09, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• " It was published by Millennium Interactive under its final title, Brutal Sports Football, for Amiga on October (although November is also listed as a release date)." -> "In October, Millennium Interactive published the game for Amiga under its final title, Brutal Sports Football."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:09, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• There are a lot of short sentences here that amount to a platform or a region, and could either be condensed into a short sentence ("It was published here, there, and everywhere"), or with some minor details removed (and left to the infobox).

We'll pause here. See if you can make the release section feel less like a list of random platforms / dates / regions. It wouldn't be bad for it to be shorter. Shooterwalker (talk) 01:17, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker:Right now i'm working in a office so once i'm done with it, i'll go step by step with your inquiries! Roberth Martinez (talk) 16:09, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker:OK so, i think i'm done with the first pass. I'll wait for more comments... Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:16, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

" Amiga Computing's Simon Clays praised the variety of ways to injure an opponent, the visuals for its large and well-defined sprites, and audio. Clays regarded it as a "totally engrossing schlock gore." " -> "Amiga Computing's Simon Clays praised audio, the well-defined sprites, and the variety of ways to injure an opponent." (you can drop the quote)

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Amiga Action's John Archer commended the game's sound effects, mix of humor and violence, and two-player mode but faulted the dull graphical presentation and lack of effort in single-player mode, particularly the small leagues. Archer compared it unfavorably with Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe (1990) and wrote "If the same effort had gone into the rest of the game design, Brutal Sports could have been a classic. As it is, it’s just very good." -> "Amiga Action's John Archer felt that the game "could have been a classic" for its humor, violence, sound effects, and multiplayer, but faulted its graphics and singleplayer mode." (the comparison isn't clear to most readers)

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Joystick's Jérôme Bonnet gave positive remarks to the gore on display, number of leagues, and multiplayer mode, but panned the game's choppy scrolling." -> "Joystick's Jérôme Bonnet gave positive remarks to the gore, multiplayer, and number of leagues, but panned the game's choppy scrolling."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• The Bitmap Brothers comment won't be clear to most readers either, and it might be more useful to describe the praise in more plain english.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Amiga Force's Miles Guttery and Ian Osborne praised its playability and multiplayer component, but noted the game was "rough" in terms of blood and violence displayed, with Guttery stating that "it's more like a bad taste cartoon."" -> "Amiga Force's Miles Guttery and Ian Osborne praised its multiplayer and overall playability, while describing the game's "rough" blood and violence as "a bad taste cartoon."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• " Amiga Format's Marcus Dyson commended the game's visuals, sound, and easy but fun playability. Dyson remarked in his veredic that it was "Less of a team sport, more of a gang war."" -> "Amiga Format's Marcus Dyson described the game as "less of a team sport, more of a gang war", while praising its audiovisuals and accessible gameplay."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "McGill also compared the game with Speedball 2 but in a more favorable light," / "They highlighted how difficult was distinguishing a player in crowded moments, while also stating that "it doesn't have the gameplay that the old classic Speedball has."" -> I'm willing to grant that this is a notable comparison if multiple journalists are making it. I might bundle the references, and add it later in the section. "Multiple reviewers compared the game to Speedball 2, with X being more favorable, and Y being more critical"

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:12, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "CU Amiga's Jon Sloan found its fast-paced gameplay to be fun, the graphics "refreshingly chunky", and the audio well crafted. Nevertheless, Sloan faulted the game's "exceedingly dodgy" scrolling, specifically at the locker room." -> "CU Amiga's Jon Sloan enjoy the game's fast pace, audio, and "chunky" graphics, but criticized the "exceedingly dodgy" scrolling."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "The MS-DOS version received mixed response from reviewers" -> I'm not sure if I can translate the Czech, but if it's only one review, then this probably needs a bundle of references.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Vincent Solé of Joystick praised the cartoonish violence, large number of items, and humor, but saw the jerky character animations and scrolling, occasionally confusing action, and lack of variety in the teams as negative aspects." -> "Vincent Solé of Joystick praised the cartoonish violence, humor, and items, but found flaws with the character animations, scrolling, and confusing action."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• " The Amiga CD32 version was met with average critical sentiments from press compared to the original Amiga release" / The Atari Jaguar version carried the same average sentiments from reviewers as the CD32 release. -> similar comments here -- if this is just one review, make sure to bundle the references to make it clear that this summarizes multiple perspectives.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Reviewing the CD32 port, Stephen Bradley of Amiga Format faulted the jerky scrolling and found the music intrusive. Bradley also complained how occasionally difficult was to follow the ball." -> "Stephen Bradley of Amiga Format also faulted the scrolling, as well as the intrusive music and the obscurity of the game ball."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Stephen Enstone of CU Amiga wrote that scrolling in the CD32 conversion did not heavily affected gameplay, but stated that it was more noticeable when a large crowd of players are present scrambling for the ball." -> "Stephen Enstone of CU Amiga criticized the scrolling in parts, particularly when a large crowd of players are scrambling for the ball."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• " Mark Wynne faulted the game for its "clumsy" presentation, irritating weapons, repetitive and flawed gameplay, poor game design, and slow pacing." -> "Mark Wynne faulted the game for its "clumsy" presentation, irritating weapons, slow pacing, and repetitive gameplay."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "GameFan's four writers regarded the Jaguar release as a unique and fun sports game, commending its colorful and detailed visuals, animations, music, controls, and fun factor. Regardless, they complained that it sounded and played like a 16-bit title, stating that it could be effortlessly done on Super NES or Sega Genesis." -> "GameFan regarded the Jaguar release as a unique and fun sports game, citing its music, controls, and colorful visuals. Regardless, they complained that it sounded and played like a 16-bit title for the Super NES or Sega Genesis."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "after Tempest 2000 (1994)," -> can drop this as outside the scope of the article.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "highlighting the use of color and felt the game's music complemented its violent theme." -> "highlighting the game's use of color and music to establish its violent theme."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• " but criticized the power-ups for being awkward to use and found the music uninspired" -> "but criticized the uninspired music and awkward power-ups."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• "Tytus of Polish publication Top Secret gave the Jaguar release positive remarks for its animated visuals, large characters, and sound effects, but criticized the music." -> "Tytus of Polish publication Top Secret criticized the game's music, but gave it overall positive remarks for its sound effects, large characters, and animated visuals."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• " found its concept appealing, but" -> can cut this for flow without losing much of the meaning

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:49, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

That should take us through a complete first pass. Then we can circle back on the whole article, including the lead, one more time. Shooterwalker (talk) 20:44, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker:I'll get around your inquiries tomorrow after work! Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:48, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker:Don with the second pass. I'll wait for more comments! Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:12, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Going through with one more pass now.

Lead

• "It was later ported to MS-DOS, Amiga CD32, and Atari Jaguar. The Jaguar version was published by Telegames, being the first third-party title for the platform." -> "It was re-published for MS-DOS and Amiga CD32, and later became the first third-party title published for the Atari Jaguar." (reduce the amount of detail about ports)

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "It is the first entry in the Brutal Sports series. In the game, players have the choice to compete in matches against computer-controlled opponents or other human players across three modes of play available. " -> "The first entry in the Brutal Sports series, the game is a fictional style of football played against human or computer-controlled opponents."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "It features a different take on american football by emphasising the violent aspect of the sport, with matches resembling a war as much as a sporting competition." -> full stop after the comma. The second one feels too close to marketing or opinion.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "The project began production in 1992 for the Amiga platform, first intended as a beat 'em up role-playing hybrid but the staff felt the idea would have been too different to catch on, which forced the team settling down with a sports thematic with beat 'em up elements. " -> "The studio began production in 1992, initially building a beat 'em up role-playing game, and later deciding that a fictional sport would be easier for audiences to understand."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• blue link beat em up.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• " The game was not intended to be violent, but the staff liked the violence and decided making it an integral part. " -> "During play testing, the staff decided to emphasize the violent aspects of the sport."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• " Versions for Sega Mega Drive/Genesis and Super Nintendo Entertainment System were announced but never released. " -> drop this entirely

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• " Critical reception for Brutal Sports Football has varied depending on the version; the original Amiga version garnered generally favorable reviews, but the DOS port received mixed response, while the CD32 and Jaguar ports carried average sentiments. " -> there is too much emphasis on platforms here, and I'd like to read more about what people liked or disliked about the game. If necessary, there can still be a note about other platforms, but it would be fine to leave that in the body of the article.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:17, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Body

• "ranging from vikings, lizards, goats and rhinos." -> "including vikings, lizards, goats and rhinos."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:06, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• " including an oval-shaped football that should be kicked into a goalpost, and the ability to tackle other players." -> "including tackles, and an oval-shaped football that is kicked through a goal post."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:06, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• blue link tackle, and maybe even some of the other football terms.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:06, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• " to use against opponents." -> can drop this part and still keep the meaning

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:06, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "The team recounted its creation and history in interviews." -> drop this too. We summarize what sources say, and don't need to explicitly say that sources covered something.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:06, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "Hager stated that although the initial idea looked like a good game, the staff felt it would have been "too different to catch on"." -> "Hager stated that the staff liked the initial concept, but felt that it would have been "too different to catch on"."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:06, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• I'd consider removing or shortening some of the excessive details about releases / platforms / publishers, in the release section. We don't need to know about every release, distribution, or trade show. Nothing here is strictly wrong, however.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "Despite being reviewed in major gaming publications such as GamePro, " -> you can definitely remove this part, at least.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• " praised audio" -> "praised the audio"

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "presentation, music, sound effects, and increasing intelligence of the opponents." -> "audiovisual elements, and artificial intelligence."

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "rough" -> can remove this microquote and keep the meaning, while improving flow and readability

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• " McGill also compared the game with Speedball 2 but in a more favorable light," -> can remove this, as you mention it later.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "CU Amiga's CU Amiga's Jon Sloan enjoy" -> "CU Amiga's Jon Sloan enjoyed"

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• " They also highlighted how difficult was distinguishing a player in crowded moments" -> " They also felt that the game looked confusing in crowded moments."
• " received mixed response" -> " received a mixed response"

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "When reviewing the CD32 version for Amiga CD32 Gamer, " -> this is implied by the section title and can be removed (or you can replace the word "game" with "CD32 version"

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "criticized the heavy rock soundtrack in the CD32 port for being annoying." -> criticized the "annoying" soundtrack"

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• " same average sentiments from reviewers as the CD32 release" -> I don't think the sources directly make this comparison. The "average sentiments" will probably need a bundle of references, or should be removed.

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:31, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

• "large characters," -> remove this, since it's sort of implied by the next part about the visuals

 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

That should be get us all the way there, if not very close. Thanks again for your patience and hard work. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:24, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker:All right! Down with the third pass. So, is there anything else left to check out? Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:17, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

I made a few minor tweaks, and I thank you for all your great work on this. This is another good article. Shooterwalker (talk) 23:50, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker:No problem! You're welcomed to review any Atari Jaguar game i may nominate as a GA candidate in the future :D Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:08, 6 October 2023 (UTC)