Talk:Aryan Nations

Am I missing something?

The first sentence describes AN as a terrorist organization and there is a note in the lead that a think-tank has called them a terrorist organization. I've read through the article a couple times but don't see any terrorist act committed solely by AN.I see that The Order had some ties to the group, but they were a separate organization. The RAND citation is a start but for the article to call the group terrorist there should be more RS's detailing their terrorist actions. 47.137.178.203 (talk) 02:34, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

In addition, practically this entire talk page consists of an argument between Wiki editors, one who claims to have been involved in and intimately knowledgeable about the group in question about who is the rightful successor to leadership of AN. For a "terrorist group" that is kind of embarrassing. Also, the two sources that claim that AN is a "terrorist threat" and a "nationwide terrorist network" are from at least 19 years ago. Since the founder is dead, no one can find evidence of them currently engaging in terrorism, and their seems to be a question over whether it even has a viable leadership, I suggest that AN be described in the lede as "once considered a terrorist organization." 47.137.178.203 (talk) 07:16, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Per many reliable source, Butler built relationships between terrorist groups, such as the KKK and (other) neo-Nazi organizations. The group also (as one example) issued a call-to-arms in response to the 9/11 attack on "Jew York City", saying things like "We are preparing a strike here in Minnesota and other surrounding areas." Another Aryan Nations official said, before the towers had collapsed, "DEATH to His enemies, may the World Trade Center BURN TO THE GROUND!". Regardless of any specific action, these statements are consistent with terrorism.[1]

Regardless, for these and other reasons, reliable sources describe this as a terrorist organization, and reliable sources are what matters. The article is, however, outdated, since it misleadingly implies that the group still exists in simple terms. Per the SPLC and ADL profiles, various factions may still exist, but saying that any one of these is the 'real' Aryan Nations is unsupported without solid reliable sources. Original research about this group is not helpful. Grayfell (talk) 00:51, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

We'll just have to find those RS's then. I will get to work. 47.137.184.131 (talk) 03:26, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

And, they might not exist. My training has taught me that history is a science. It would be so much easier if Wiki allowed for primary sources, but I get what the project is and won't be disappointed if the independent reliable sources don't turn up. 47.137.184.131 (talk) 03:42, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Connection to Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge.

I noticed this page does not mention the organization's ties, albeit small, to Randy Weaver. Weaver was first approached by an ATF agent at an Aryan Nations rally, and this eventually led to the standoff at Ruby Ridge. Butler even protested near the site. I feel this worth mentioning. 2601:CF:4500:ACF0:C88C:5FC2:7859:1BFF (talk) 02:23, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

I added content for Ruby Ridge and included a cite. Could someone who knows how to do such things add the page number of the book, please? It is pg. 42 47.137.179.4 (talk) 21:09, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Looks like I used a tertiary source, so disregard. I will find a secondary source, or the IP user who made the request can, if connecting Weaver with AN is that important. 47.137.179.4 (talk) 22:06, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Tertiary or not, it was flimsy and too vague. The last thing this article needs to more vague breadcrumbs for conspiracy theorists. Use reliable, independent sources to explain what this connection is and why it is encyclopedically significant. Do so without promoting these fringe ideologies. Grayfell (talk) 22:14, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Like I said, I don't care. I was trying to be helpful to the other guy. As for the admonishment about promotion, I have no connection to AN, nor am I trying to promote them. I am editing an article without an agenda. Please assume good faith. Thank you. 47.137.179.4 (talk) 22:33, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Official Website

Removed due to no source stating that the archived page was ever the orgs official prescence on the web - sorry, the "no" got left out of edit summary. 47.137.179.4 (talk) 22:01, 6 April 2023 (UTC)