Star Mississippi

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BLP art collector/businessman

Hi Star Mississippi, I noticed that you are a member of WP:Theatre and have worked on several art museum articles. I would appreciate your opinion on the article draft that I created for Carl Thoma, an art collector and businessman. Because of my COI, I do not want to publish the article myself; if you agree that it has potential, would you mind helping to have it ready for main space? Thank you very much! JBarTB (talk) 17:22, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Apologies@JBarTB I missed this. I'll try to look at this in the next week if no one else has. Star Mississippi 01:25, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Star Mississippi, thanks for your response! If you have the time to look at the draft, it is still in my user space! Thank you! JBarTB (talk) 16:05, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi there, just a reminder that the Carl Thoma draft is still in my user space if you have some time to take a look at it! Thank you! JBarTB (talk) 16:34, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Carl Thoma BLP reminder

Hi Star Mississippi, I wanted to bring the article draft for Carl Thoma back to your attention. I'm sure that you are very busy, but if you have some time to look over the draft, I would appreciate your constructive feedback. Thank you! JBarTB (talk) 18:44, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @JBarTB. I'm not able to review or work this in the immediate future. Rather than reaching out to individual editors it might be a better use of your time to just submit it to AfC. You're eligible to do so as an editor with a COI Star Mississippi 19:46, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Quack!

Hello, and quack a doodle doo! A duck has flown in and landed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Menotti Lerro (2nd nomination). Netherzone (talk) 00:38, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the giggle @Netherzone. Blocked and semi'ed to avoid future friends. Do you know if there's an SPI open? Star Mississippi 00:45, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Yeah, I believe it's Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Gingeksace. Left guide (talk) 00:52, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

and thanks @Left guide for the template cleanup. Semi'ing is easier than whack a sock, but I hate the template syntax. Star Mississippi 00:50, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

I guess this wasn't the only instance, must be a glitch in the protection tool haha. Left guide (talk) 20:32, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

It's specific to A/MFDs. Something with the header. I'll flag it for @Novem Linguae if I can reproduce it because right now we're firmly in I broke something again but can't explain it territory. Thanks for flagging & fixing @Left guide Star Mississippi 01:51, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

AfD: Bondage tape II

Hi! Just pointing out that the nominator of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bondage tape (2nd nomination) suggested an WP:ATD of redirecting to List of BDSM equipment and I think this is fair in order to preserve the history. Was there a reason this wasn't done, and if not, could you possibly restore the article so it can be done? ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  19:23, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

I read that as something @Piotrus would have been OK with, not that they preferred it which is why I didn't close it as such. But since we're treating this as a contested PROD, I've done so. If someone feels it's not a good solution it can be sorted out down the line at RfD. Thanks for flagging @GhostOfDanGurney Star Mississippi 00:38, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Generally, I do prefer preserving history of articles as best practice in such cases. Thanks, _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:41, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Re. Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikiversuite pages

You closed this discussion as delete, but it doesn't look like you deleted any of the pages.

If you were using a script to close this nomination, it's possible that it got confused by the "and subpages" links I included in the list of nominated pages. When you do close this nomination, please make sure that those subpages are all deleted as well. Omphalographer (talk) 19:28, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for flagging and apologies for my error/not checking @Omphalographer. Thanks too to @Explicit who took care of this while I was offline. Star Mississippi 00:35, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Comment

Hello, would you please clarify your comment on my note at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aina Asif (2nd nomination)? Thank you. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 21:08, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

You know what I mean, but since you'd like me to clarify: WP:DTTR. Voters disagree, that doesn't mean they're doing it wrong or need to be told about ATA. It comes across really disingenuous, which I know you don't mean. Star Mississippi 22:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply but I REALLY do not know what you mean and honestly, I am not pleased by the fact that you assert that I do. Why would I waste my time asking you, if I did understand?.ATA? Mentioning ATA, is that it???? PLEASE..... look at the page history...who mentioned ATA in the first place? Not me..... I don't mind, and it was certainly done in good faith, I am sure, but I think I should at least be allowed to comment. I am really puzzled by your comment, to tell you the truth. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 22:26, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

AND DTTR? I had missed that part. I did not template any regular. Where? When? Who?.... What are you talking about? I never template anyone, even the most blatantly vandal IPs!! Are you sure you are talking about me at that AFD? There must be some misunderstanding or something I missed because I have no idea of what you're talking about. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 22:31, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

You said, The essay WP:ATA is indeed rather interesting to read...Can also apply to certain delete !votes, btw,

Comes across as expecting editors aren't familiar with it, when we all (including you) are veterans. It's the same logic as DTTR. You don't mean it, but it's how it comes across. This is not about whether the article is kept or not, it's far too early to tell, but I don't think you want to come across talking to other editors that way. Star Mississippi 02:29, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying but again .....I am just commenting on what is obviously a comment on my vote, citing ATA (and erroneously, on top of that); that is why I felt I had to explain what ATA says and not. Indeed, I am seriously just indicating that ATA does not apply to "WP:XXX because YYY"-type !votes but only to "WP:XXX"-type !votes! Why did I do it? Because that is what is clearly stated by another user (who happens to !vote in a "WP:XXX'-fashion on top of it, in their !vote, which is ironic). Now, if you prefer explaining that yourself as admin/relister (as nominator, in fact), feel free to strike out that comment of mine and make the clarification about what the essay really says yourself, the way you think best, if you think that's more appropriate. I honestly won't mind. But I still don't understand why you focus on my mention on ATA. When I quote essays (I rarely quote essays) or guidelines erroneously, if someone corrects me, I stand corrected. Thank you all the same. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 07:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm not going to strike it, even if I weren't nominator. I understand what you're saying here, but that's not how it comes across which is telling us to read ATA. I know that's not what you want to do, which is why I flagged it. Star Mississippi 02:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

A question about speedy deletion

Hello, a quick Q regarding your closing comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flirtini (app). My understanding was that a speedy deletion could happen at any time at an admin's discretion if the situation meets one of the criteria. Your comment about mootness made me wonder whether I am correct. Is "speedy delete" disallowed as an option in a relisted AfD? Thanks for clarifying! Dclemens1971 (talk) 04:44, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! My understanding with AfD, which may well be wrong, is that speedy is the OK to close it in fewer than the initial 7 days because while it wasn't CSDed, it meets one of the criteria or it's snowing. Since an AfD can be closed at any time following the relist, we don't need the speedy. Your !vote and BD2412's gave the consensus that the outcome was delete. There was nothing wrong with your note-it's not not disallowed but not necessary, if that makes sense? While I have you, thanks for weighing in on all those arena event AfDs so we could have some consensus instead of another silent relist. Star Mississippi 13:25, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Happy to do it and thanks for clarifying about speedy deletion! Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:00, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Lauren Fagan

Hi @Star Mississippi, I'm super confused about the "no consensus" decision. 4 policy-based keeps, and the nominator's concern was addressed... There was no one, including the nominator, claiming that the subject is not notable. Source analysis showed 2 strong GNG compliant sources. And a super detailed analysis showing that NACTOR is satisfied. How come it is not closed as keep? TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 19:22, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @TheJoyfulTentmaker and thanks for your note. I also weighed @Oaktree b & @GMH Melbourne (no action needed, courtesy ping on mention)'s input as weighing in on sourcing but not strongly enough to advocate for a keep (nor argue foe deletion) which is how I landed on NC. I've re-read my close and assessment and I don't see a keep here. It's a distinction without a difference given the outcome is for retention of the article, but if you believe I'm wrong I have no objection to a DRV being filed. About to step offline for a few hours so pardon any delay in response. Star Mississippi 19:30, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I have no issues with the final decision to close the AfD. Oaktree b (talk) 21:30, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Now at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 October 5. —Cryptic 00:33, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

A page protecting fox for you!

This fox protects pages!

~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:05, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I love this! And here's the little Inari kami icon that protects my user page - please feel free to use and share widely!

Netherzone (talk) 01:08, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @ToBeFree @Netherzone. NZ, your timing is impeccable. I was just talking with a friend about our trip to Fushimi Inari which was somehow probably 20 years ago (might have been '06). I got tired of whack a sock, and the poor goats were getting tired. Have a good evening both of you. Star Mississippi 01:14, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

One of my most favorite places in the whole world! Be well, and don't let the socks get under your skin - toss em into the machine that loses socks. Have a wonderful weekend to the both of you. Netherzone (talk) 01:20, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

How cool! I didn't know about Inari and Fushimi Inari! Well, I may have seen the latter in a featured picture contest, but I never had an idea what it was about. Thank you very much, Star Mississippi and Netherzone! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:24, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone isn't it absolutely magical? @ToBeFree this site has some of my favorite photos of the shrine. If life ever takes you to Japan, it's a must see along with Miyajima (more remote but so worth it). Thanks both for your help always Star Mississippi 13:23, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Deer roaming in Nara city. 2010

It is one of the most incredible sacred sites I've ever seen! And I can't believe you also mentioned Miyajima...remember all those little crabs crawling around at low tide at Itsukushima Shrine! I have some good friends who are currently visiting Japan for the first time, and I mentioned to them that they must go to Fushimi Inari, Miyajima, and Nara. I absolutely loved Nara, spent a whole week there - the Shinto Shrine Kasuga-taisha, the botanical gardens, the Todai-ji Buddhist temple, all the friendly sacred deer all over the city, that huge park, and the road up the hill (can't remember the name, something like the road of 10,000 lanterns.)

@ToBeFree, I really hope you get a chance to go to Japan! It's truly amazing. Netherzone (talk) 15:47, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Deers in a Japanese city! That's a sight I hadn't seen even on a photo yet. That's cool. I had seen images of the Itsukushima Shrine, but I wasn't aware of crabs! Kasuga-taisha and Tōdai-ji are beautiful but if I have seen them, it must have been in a movie. I should change this one day! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:08, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

I have three colleagues going to Japan this month and I'm so jealous (in a benign, not mean way) of them because there is nothing like autumn in Japan. The road to Omiwa Shrine @Netherzone? Such solace. Loved Misen-san in Miyajima. I found it necessary after the pain that was Hiroshima.

@ToBeFree you should. The flight is long so plan a month if you can. Two weeks at a minimum unless you're doing one city. It's a nation of huge contrasts from the bustling built up cities to the quiet of the towns and even more rural areas. Even within the contrast of Nagoya and the Fuji Go Ko region just an hour from Tokyo. Star Mississippi 22:21, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip! ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:06, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

AfD/Dead Romance

Star Mississippi I see that you have closed this AfD; with the comment "merge‎ to Virgin New Adventures. which was not seconded, however nor was it refuted.", but I had commented just below the suggestion that it should be merged to Bernice Summerfield instead. There is no section for Dead Romance to be merged to in VNA's, that section itself links to an anchor inside Bernice Summerfield. Can you change the merge destination? DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 06:08, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! I'll make a note in the close, but the merger destination is actually an editorial one and not admin. @DoctorWhoFan91 I'd suggest that you, @Cunard and any other interested editors discuss on which you think is the best fit. Let me know if that's helpful? Star Mississippi 13:30, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Spam only account

Hi, I wondered if I could draw your attention to the following brief thread at WP:COIN, [1]. The user is a spam only account recently blocked on German Wikipedia who has transferred their activities to English Wikipedia. I think there is probably a strong case for a site block. Regards, Axad12 (talk) 09:28, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done thanks as always for flagging @Axad12 Star Mississippi 13:30, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for this, much appreciated.

If you have the time it may also be worth looking at this brief thread on a separate subject, started by user:Fram. It's about another user engaged solely in promotion and ignoring multiple warnings. Axad12 (talk) 12:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

which thread @Axad12? Star Mississippi 02:26, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

My sincere apologies, I meant this one [2]. Axad12 (talk) 03:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Done. Sorry to have missed this for a few days. Star Mississippi 14:11, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks, another obvious one at COIN here [3]. Regards, Axad12 (talk) 15:32, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Blocked. I have some concerns about whether the article should exist or if it's BLP1E territory but don't have the on wiki time to dig into that right now. Star Mississippi 15:52, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Draftifying Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jamal Abdi Hassan

Hi, thanks for closing the AFD for Jamal Abdi Hassan. Per the closing statement, could you please draftify it? Thanks, --Habst (talk) 00:04, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Here you go: Draft:Jamal Abdi Hassan

Not watching, but please ping me if you need anything further on it or anything else. Star Mississippi 00:25, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk page access?

Hi, sorry to bother you with a bit of drama....User:Gingeksace (from the Lerro/Empathism ANI) who is blocked continues to make legal attacks and personal attacks against me here and on Commons and my own talk page was vandalized a few days ago by one of their socks. I'm wondering if their talk page access should be restricted because now they are doing this on their own user talk. Netherzone (talk) 20:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

You never bother me.  Done here. I'm not a commons admin, but pinging @AntiCompositeNumber & @Red-tailed hawk who are to see if they can help there. If not, not sure how their ANI procedures work. Sorry you're still dealing with that. Star Mississippi 20:31, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone I blocked the account on Commons, if it continues let me know. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 20:37, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Star for blocking access, and thank you @AntiCompositeNumber for your assistance on Commons. I did not know how or to whom to report the abuse. Good to meet you here. Let's hope things calm down soon! Netherzone (talk) 22:50, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Báthory family (of the Aba clan)

Dear Star Mississippi! May I ask you to restore text to my talk page? it contains useful discussion and research about the Aba genus, which I may use later. Norden1990 (talk) 15:12, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Here you go: User:Norden1990/Báthory family (of the Aba clan)

Not watching, so please ping me if you need anything further. Star Mississippi 15:28, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! --Norden1990 (talk) 16:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Iltija Mufti

soo @Star Mississippi will the AfD debates in Articles for deletion/Iltija Mufti be concluded? Sarim Wani (talk) 15:07, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

It will be closed when an administrator feels the discussion has concluded. They will then decide whether the page block continues to the article. Star Mississippi 15:30, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

COIN discussion

Hello again. I wondered if you might take a look at the following COIN thread [4]. Basically it seems to be a long term (10 year +) COI user who repeatedly creates article about themselves, family members, bosses, companies worked for, etc. etc. (all with questionable sourcing and notability). The user continues to vehemently deny any COI, but they are clearly WP:NOTHERE and are involved in a great deal of promo activity. Many thanks, Axad12 (talk) 13:32, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Now resolved. Regards, Axad12 (talk) 17:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks/apologies for the delay. I was offline Star Mississippi 21:04, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

No worries, the user was blocked in the end, which was the right result.

There's another COIN thread here [5] where a very clear UPE account is repeatedly denying COI on their talk page, repeatedly removing tags and even taking down a speedy deletion template. Personally I don't really see any possible outcome except for an indef as they have had several warnings, but would value your input as always. Axad12 (talk) 11:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Broken table on Wikipedia:Editing restrictions/Placed by the Wikipedia community

Hi Star Mississippi - I saw that the table is messed up on Wikipedia:Editing restrictions - having a look through the templates and history I think you might have added some incorrect formatting wrong when adding iimitlessyou to Wikipedia:Editing restrictions/Placed by the Wikipedia community. Looking at Wikipedia:Editing restrictions, it looks like the second half of the page has been moved into a cell on iimitlessyou's table row. Unfortunately I'm not bold enough to try to fix it because the area feels a bit too adminy for me - but I just thought I'd give you the heads up in case it wasn't intended Bug Ghost🦗👻 19:42, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Definitely wasn't intended and I reverted myself an dropped a note on the Talk.I wish we had a less mechanical system for logging. Star Mississippi 20:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

No worries! I personally wish that editing tables wasn't always such a minefield haha Bug Ghost🦗👻 20:53, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Me too! I resisted them entirely until I did some cleanup on a List article that was tables upon tables. I still find them challenging in ways wiki formatting really isn't. Thanks again for flagging it. Star Mississippi 21:03, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Troll suburbs

Could you please make this Empathic troll go away and head back to its local Trollosphere? [6] It's little sock puppet's name is Garlif23. Thank you! Netherzone (talk) 23:36, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

We edit conflicted in the best possible way. Blocked, rev del'ed. So sorry you're still dealing with this. I don't know if there's an edit filter that would stop them. Let me know if you want your page semi'ed. Happy to do so. Star Mississippi 23:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Let's see how long it continues before semi-protection. Netherzone (talk) 23:42, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

2000editor

I thought that the editor had a competency problem.

I don't know anything about the Bigg Boss show, but maybe the other editors will now collaborate to get a draft written that will be approved. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:34, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I think it's probably some English language issues with the guidelines. I wanted to help them, but we'd moved into DE territory which was made clearer with the unblock requests. I think they probably need to edit elsewhere as even if it's in mainspace, the tone isn't going to work. I'm not against an unblock but it doesn't seem likely Star Mississippi 12:09, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

CitizenLab/Go Vocal page

Hello @Star Mississippi, thanks for the welcome! I was indeed trying to edit the CitizenLab article/page because it contains wrong factual information. We're not called CitizenLab anymore and the name should be changed throughout the page. I also edited the website and the logo. I understand Wikipedia's caution to letting people edit articles where there could be a conflict of interest, but we should at least be able to correct mistakes on the page? :) I would really appreciate some help with updating the name of the page/moving it so it reflects our actual name. Sören3300 (talk) 06:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Good morning. You have yet to make the required declarations (WP:PAID) which you are required to do or you will be blocked.

I see you repeated your ask at the Teahouse, so someone will help you there they believe the sourcing is sufficient. (Google results are not necessarily a reason to do so) Please let me know if you need anything else. Star Mississippi 12:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

United States girls' national under-16 soccer team

Hello, Star Mississippi,

I'm not sure what to do here about this article. You closed a DRV and restored this AFD-deleted article to Draft space but it has quickly been moved to main space and from my too-quick review, it looks like the only change is to add references about the coaching staff. Should it be re-draftified or tagged for CSD G4?

The trend in AFDLand these days is to not keep articles about sports teams for minors (under 18 years of age). Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:32, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Liz

From my quick glance, it's not a G4. You (generic, not you personally) can make a case for a new AfD after two years. That was my logic in speedy closing the DRV. The close was fine but potentially no longer relevant since @Hameltion IDed new sources so might as well give them time to improve it. I have no objection to an AfD (or a G4 if you believe it is one). Star Mississippi 02:49, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Nothing like a mention of deletion to get some editing done! :) (added some 2016 sources with good sigcov) Hameltion (talk | contribs) 03:44, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

As always, I trust your judgment, SM. I just know I can get frustrated when I've restored a deleted article to Draft or User space and then it is immediately moved to main space. But I will pursue it no further. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I'll be honest, I didn't notice it until you flagged it @Liz. I feel that concern when it's a problematic article/subject, but this deserves another chance. If folks feel the sourcing still isn't there, it can be re-deleted. Star Mississippi 01:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Deletion of Page Sligo Wild Geese

Hi, I am the creator of the page the Sligo Wild Geese that was deleted a short while ago. I am likely to create it again, this time with a few more references. Though they are hard to come by for this time and place. However, its my fault i did not see the deletion flag as ive not been active on the Wiki for a while. The page might not have seemed impressive, but i can assure you the subject matter is important enough to warrant a mention in the wiki at least. I hope you will have no objections to its recreation. Kodai (talk) 22:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Dylanovsky. You're welcome to recreate it. Would you like the draft to work from? Just be sure to address the issues at the AfD or someone is likely to nominate it again. Star Mississippi 01:34, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

My close of Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Michael Jester/St. Louis Cardinals all-time roster (A)

Hello, Star Mississippi. I closed this very overdue MfD as "redirect" whereas you closed basically the other part of this same discussion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Michael Jester/St. Louis Cardinals all-time roster (I–J) as delete. I noticed this only afterwards. I'm not suggesting that something needs to be done, but maybe it would be good to make you aware of this, since you're the admin. User talk:Michael Jester#St. Louis Cardinals all-time roster (I–J) & St. Louis Cardinals all-time roster (A) has information on what happened with these two pages. —Alalch E. 20:05, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Apologies for the delay, I've been offline. I'm not able to dig into this right now as my on wiki time remains limited. Would you like me to revert? I'm happy to since it seems both should close in the same way and "your" MfD had a clear redirect consensus. Star Mississippi 01:33, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, that's all there is to it, there's nothing deeper. I think it would be "nice" to have them both closed with the same outcome, because it really was the same discussion with the exact same participants, and the consensus in the MfD you closed got obscured by the fact that the discussion was divided on two pages. Thanks, and hope you're enjoying the autumn colors. —Alalch E. 09:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

All set, I think. Let me know if I missed anything @Alalch E.? and thanks again for flagging. Star Mississippi 14:59, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Cool. You didn't miss anything. Thank you. —Alalch E. 15:16, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Star Mississippi. Please check your email; you've got mail! The subject is SPI.
Message added 20:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Sent you an email about evidence of an SPI filing I am about to make. Looking for a second set of eyes and you had previous dealings so hopefully you guide me one way or the other. CNMall41 (talk) 20:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Responded, thanks for the ping @CNMall41 Star Mississippi 02:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Once I have everything put together I will send via email so there is a second set of eyes. Maybe I miss something. Thanks. --CNMall41 (talk) 02:38, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

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Keraites

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Hello. I am concerned that the wrong revision of the page was restored in Keraites. Compare the earlier https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Keraites&oldid=1249156351 revision which was made 21 days ago, and look at the edit history. The more recent version which states that Keraites were “Turco-Mongol” was made on 22 October, 2024. The following is the recent revision made by @Turkiishh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Keraites&oldid=1252755816 The following was his statement: stop edit war on every turco mongol topic your edits are very bad, you are mongolo and edit only turkic pages

The revision before the edit war was the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Keraites&oldid=1249156351 revision. It should be reverted to this version. I cannot edit the page as it is protected. Cheers. Vofa (talk) 05:56, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Just chiming in, when I was accused of WP:NOTHERE by @Beshogur the user @Turkiishh made a controversial revision:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Keraites&diff=prev&oldid=1252967202 stating that the Keraite chieftain Toghrul was “Turkic”. He made a lot of grammatical mistakes and stated that “rv keraite ruler was of turkic elite class” to solve the dispute in question, I decided to “quarantine” the page, and made some contributions on the way. However, the wrong revision of the page was restored as I explained in the above message. Vofa (talk) 06:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

That was an edit from 2022, by Tumen-il (talk · contribs)[7]. Doesn't mean it's correct.

It already states It is unclear whether the Keraites should be classified as Turkic or Mongol in origin. The names and titles of early Keraite leaders suggest that they were speakers of Turkic languages, but coalitions and incorporation of sub-clans may have led to Turco-Mongol amalgamation from an early time. So based on etymology, we shouldn't conclude it's Turkic or Mongol, since Other researchers also suggested that the Mongolian name Khereid may be an ancient totem name derived from the root Kheree (хэрээ) for "raven" since this example doesn't even mention that Turkic word raven has the same roots, and is even Turkic in origin. What is clear that this tribe had both elements. Wikitionary Proto-Turkic/karga Beshogur (talk) 15:57, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Also Better phrasing. I need a source that would suggest that Khereids were Turkic. (Use common sense) isn't a good explanation. As it's obvious Keraite names were Turkic. Beshogur (talk) 15:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

My Talk page is not the place for this discussion @Vofa. Please make an edit request on the article's Talk and someone will assess it. Star Mississippi 16:10, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Vofa. No one but admins is able to edit the page right now because you were both edit warring. Please make an edit request on the Talk page and an admin will assess and address it, if they feel it's needed. I am not able to weigh in on content in this subject area. Star Mississippi 11:32, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Block evasion check

Hey. Are you able to check if this IP is related to this user that you subject blocked for COI? The IP has edited a related sandbox and the page that the original account is blocked from editing. It's a minor edit but I suspect block evasion. Thanks. DaHuzyBru (talk) 07:48, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I hope it was just accidental/testing and have cautioned them as such. I'll keep an eye out for further. Thanks for your work cleaning up the article @DaHuzyBru and flagging this. Star Mississippi 11:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit warring SPA who does not respect the results of the COI edit request process

Hi, I wondered if you might take a look at this COIN thread [8]. The SPA (on the issue of whether 2 companies are Chinese state-owned) edit warred on 2 articles before being encouraged to declare COI and to make COI edit requests. He then made the edits again rather than waiting for the edit requests to be approved and was told not to do so again.

A month later one request was turned down and the other remained outstanding, so the SPA returned to edit warring over the material at both articles.

I'd suggest that the user be blocked from editing the two articles. They are inexperienced and obviously have strong feelings on the matters involved, but they had previously been warned that a block might result.

Kind regards, Axad12 (talk) 11:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Axad12. I'm not going to be able to give this far eyes for a few days, unfortunately. Please let me know early next week if it's still an issue and I've not come back to it/another admin hasn't addressed. Star Mississippi 16:11, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Okay, no problem. Best wishes, Axad12 (talk) 16:15, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Blocked for UPE. I'm in favor of one page (or namespace) block, but when we get into multiple it's my opinion that the disruption will move. Of course if he convinces another admin, they're welcome to adjust the block. Sorry for the delay. Star Mississippi 01:56, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for your assistance here, much appreciated. Axad12 (talk) 04:05, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Liz Neeley close

Hi Star, would you mind expanding on your close rationale? From what I could gauge we have the nom; @Russ Woodroofe's "weak delete" that seems to at least partly be weak because of the possibility of NAUTHOR and the interview in NPR (which our policy lists as primary "depending on context", with the context not being particularly applicable in this case); a weak keep that can be discounted entirely since it's based on authorship that turned out not to exist; a weak keep where there is only one interview source the editor considers to have SIGCOV, which is not enough for GNG even if it had enough independent and secondary content; another weak keep that also hinges on the single interview source being counted for GNG; a keep that doesn't understand that GNG requires coverage, not just selection as an interview subject; and two detailed deletes that describe why the interviews fail to count towards GNG. I think given how recent @David Eppstein's !vote was it might have been preferable to relist so that other editors could respond?
Thanks, JoelleJay (talk) 17:07, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! I think it was simplest to relist here especially as it had only been relisted once and seven additional days at AfD is likely to be more fruitful than the same time at DRV, should you have chosen to go that route. While I agree with some of your points and don't think I'd have voted to keep, I feel like community consensus is fuzzy w/r/t independence and N:AUTHOR/N:ACADEMIC, and we saw some of that here. Curious to see if a consensus firms up. Star Mississippi 17:19, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing as JoelleJay, myself. As discussion was ongoing it looked like another relist could have been fruitful. Alternatively, it would have been possible (although obviously more controversial) to close this as delete citing the weakness of the keep !votes. I think the no-consensus close that you chose instead was the weakest of these three possibilities, and could well be turned over to a relist at DRV. As for your invocation of N:AUTHOR/N:ACADEMIC, there was no case made for N:ACADEMIC on the AfD whatsoever, and the one keep !vote based on N:AUTHOR turned out to be based on mistaken identity and should have been discounted. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:33, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

You're very welcome JoelleJay.

@David Eppstein While I'm not sure it would have been overturned to relist (vs. say re-nominate it in a shorter than typical window), there was definitely no need for DRV with an established editor in @JoelleJay asking for reconsideration (or you, had you been the one to come here first). Consensus is what we all want, regardless of what we think about a particular topic and 7 days at DRV+ a potential 7 at AfD again is a waste of community time and bandwidth. FWIW, I'd already relisted it about two hours before you commented here because I have no issue with more eyes.

Re: NACADEMIC, sorry to be clear that was my making the connection between the two where academic sources frequently aren't independent of the subject but as long as they back up citation/position, it generally results in a decision to retain. I see the same for author discussions although ideally all of the reviews are independent. The three of us know all too well that AfD isn't always the ideal world. Star Mississippi 20:21, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for reopening! JoelleJay (talk) 19:54, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, thanks! —David Eppstein (talk) 20:21, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome! Star Mississippi 20:33, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Rick Sanjek

Hi Star,

I'm a newbie and I'm lost at the moment. I'm creating a page for Rick Sanjek. I just submitted a draft for review and it was declined for copyright violations. Where do I start to find the cause of the violation(s) so that I can correct it/them? Thanks

CyberDave9000 (talk) 02:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

@CyberDave9000 (talk page watcher) Don't worry, I've already removed the copyright violating material. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 03:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @I dream of horses. @CyberDave9000 make sure to consult the sources about Sanjek but write in your own words, do not copy what they write. Let us know if you need more help, or check with the teahouse who have an array of volunteers available. (Personally about to log off for the evening. Star Mississippi 03:07, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Good Evening @Star Mississippi, I believe I have removed the copyright violations. What happens when I click publish? will it cause a review to take place? I'm just a little gun shy at the moment - thanks CyberDave9000 (talk) 01:10, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi! Just click the blue Resubmit button and a reviewer will assess the article. Star Mississippi 01:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

@CyberDave9000 you should be editing Draft:Rick Sanjek, not your userpage. I have redirected your userpage. Please do not edit that with article copy. Star Mississippi 02:02, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi - when I went to publish on the draft page - I got an error. I had to restore (copy/paste) the draft page to publish . thx again CyberDave9000 (talk) 02:08, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi - what is the protocol here? - do I have to accept all edits made to the page or can I undo them? CyberDave9000 (talk) 01:59, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @CyberDave9000 You are free to undo edits, but I'd recommend not doing so given their broader familiarity with how Wikipedia works. The only edits you may not remove are the AfC reviewers' notes. Star Mississippi 03:17, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:ANI on List of Famous People

I agree with your closure of the WP:ANI dispute. I think that you and I agree that a dispute should only be pending in one forum at a time, and that there are content forums and conduct forums, and it is better to handle a dispute that has both content and conduct aspects in a content forum. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:22, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your note @Robert McClenon. Apologies, I don't recall this discussion, but your summary reflects my thoughts. ANI is too busy to deal with things that would be better handled elsewhere. Star Mississippi 22:57, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

It was the Autographs subpage of the user page of Marine 69-71. Maybe I should have provided a little more information to a busy admin who deals with a lot of controversies. At least two people went after the subpage. One nominated it for MFD, which is a content forum, and one of them went to WP:ANI. Now we are also seeing a RFAR to desysop him. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:00, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Ahh yes. There was nothing further that could have come out of ANI as, at that moment, Administrators' Recall didn't exist and personally I'm not convinced it would be suited to this type of situation. And no worries on the context, I probably should have had more coffee as well. Star Mississippi 02:23, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

FloridaArmy Drafts

Draft:J. R. Preston

I started a draft on this fellow a while back and would be happy to have some help with it. (Also posted this on Mississippi Wikiproject talk page). I hipe all is well. FloridaArmy (talk) 23:19, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @FloridaArmy. I'll try to get to this in the coming days and week. You know I love educators, so thanks for flagging. Star Mississippi 02:30, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Virtute et armis FloridaArmy (talk) 02:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Theodore Sydney Moïse

Any chance you or your page watchers could help with this declined draft? Several "further reading" sources are included. Thanks! FloridaArmy (talk) 00:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Alice Josephine Tye Noel

I don't understand the submission denial rationale for the submitted draft and I think she belongs in mainspace. Ripe for expansion no doubt. FloridaArmy (talk) 15:42, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Looking into this and Moise who you flagged above. Apologies for delay, on wiki time has been somewhat limited. Star Mississippi 22:56, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Deletion review for Miyu Takahashi

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Miyu Takahashi. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. ~~~~ DCsansei (talk) 23:40, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Keramikou 28

I agree that starting the AFD was what needed to be done. This was a clear case of gaming of titles, which is all too common, often with articles where the native form of the subject is a non-Latin writing system, which is a conduct issue. At the same time, if a conduct issue can be ignored by focusing on content, that is more likely to improve the encyclopedia. I have a difficult time assuming good faith when there is a name game, but a deletion discussion doesn't involve the conduct or good faith of the author. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:15, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks and apologies for the delay @Robert McClenon. I wasn't sure if it was a title gaming situation or transliteration, but knew that the content issue was going to be better handled separately since it wasn't necessarily tied to the creator issue. I've been offline but will check in on how both are resolving soon. Star Mississippi 03:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Title gaming often takes advantage of the options of transliteration, but is still often title gaming. I have seen it more than once with Indian actors. After an article is deleted, another article is created with a different spelling. There is no need to change the spelling of a name unless the objective is to avoid seeing the deletion. With native English language names of people, the title is gamed either by adding or changing a disambiguator, or adding or removing a middle name or middle initial. Changes in the spelling of transliterated names are usually done on purpose. The good-faith approach is to argue over the primary spelling after notability is established, and create redirects for other spellings. This was a name game, which is conduct that can be ignored by addressing the content issue. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

A huge problem about a user, who overrides the AfD result on an article

Hello Star.

I just want to let you know that a user by the name of Tyamutz had overridden the AfD result on Fractured (miniseries) article, which you closed and redirected to an other article a few months back. I'm not sure how to stop that user since the user removed the redirect template, recreated, and updated a page instead of creating a new draft. JRGuevarra (talk) 06:42, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) The difference between the "new" article and the old one are miniscule. Here's a link to said difference. I'm going to revert to Star's edit and warn @Tyamutz. Sirocco745 (talk) 06:55, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@Sirocco745 That's starting to make sense, and thanks for warning Tyamutz about this issue. JRGuevarra (talk) 07:02, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

No problem! I tend to randomly check the recent talk/user talk page edits to see what I can do to help :D Sirocco745 (talk) 07:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @JRGuevarra for flagging and @Sirocco745 for stepping in while I was offline. It looks like it as been resolved but please don't hesitate to ping me if further action needed. Star Mississippi 03:05, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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Editing of Faith Theological Seminary has been blocked but there is missing information now about its history:

FTS initially used the facilities of the First Independent Church of Wilmington (later Faith Bible Presbyterian Church), pastored by Harold Laird.[1][3][2] FTS grew in size and moved to Huston Hall in Wilmington in 1941,[2] then to Lynnewood Hall (the former Widener estate) in Elkins Park, Pennsylvania, in 1952.[1] Carl McIntire served as president from 1972 until 2002.

1. "The Design and History of Faith Theological Seminary". Faith Theological Seminary. Retrieved August 10, 2020. 2. Harden, Margaret G. (1967). A Brief History of the Bible Presbyterian Church and Its Agencies. Bible Presbyterian Church. pp. 45, 134. Retrieved August 11, 2020. 3. "Our History". Faith Presbyterian Church (PCA). Retrieved August 10, 2020. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephenhague (talk • contribs) 22:49, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Stephenhague. Please feel free to use WP:Edit requests to suggest changes on Talk:Faith Theological Seminary. You may edit that page but not the article directly Star Mississippi 20:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Pagal Khana

should I re draft Draft:Pagal Khana or not? by --Sunuraju (talk) 01:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry, can you please clarify your question? I note you also asked at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk#01:00,_11_November_2024_review_of_submission_by_Sunuraju and would recommend one location for your question. Star Mississippi 01:27, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

FYI. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:16, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @CNMall41 for the context! I'll respond there to keep it central. Star Mississippi 01:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

COIN thread

Hello Star Mississippi. I wonder if you might have time to take a look at the following COIN thread [9]. The user in question, Smatprt, has a conflict of interest in relation to the articles for Stephen Moorer and the Pacific Repertory Theatre plus several other related articles. The situation has been going on for many years.

Easily accessible off-wiki evidence has been noted by multiple editors at COIN and the user claimed (over a fortnight ago) that they are happy to answer any questions but have since gone silent. They have actually previously revealed their identity on-wiki but it was many years ago and under circumstances that may not have been entirely regular (it was following an attempted outing), they have also done so at Commons.

However, the nature of the COI is pretty transparent from the username and is confirmed by the off wiki evidence. I'd be grateful if you could take action.

(Apologies for contacting you when you are offline, but it seems we are in rather disparate timezones and rarely online at the same time. However, these sorts of requests of mine are rarely urgent so I'm happy for your intervention just whenever you happen to be free).

Kind regards, Axad12 (talk) 03:54, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Axad12. I never mind you reaching out at any time. I view Wikipedia as primarily asynchronous communication, where in real time is just an added bonus. So never hesitate to reach out. I'll try to let you know if I'm offline for longer than normal. All that said, I'm going to decline to engage further here. I believe there are more complex ties with an editor who I brought to ANI so I'd be Involved and it's a complex one that won't be resolved with a block either. I know there's a backlog at the paid / COI queue and SPI, but I think that's the best course of action here and it doesn't look like an SPI has been filed. cc @Graywalls, @Netherzone if there's anything I'm missing and thanks as always for flagging @Axad12. Star Mississippi 13:33, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @Axad12, I think in a case like this where there has been long term COI/UPE editing going on (as well as strong off-wiki and on-wiki evidence), it probably should have been taken to ANI rather than COIN.

ANI's charge is to deal with chronic, intractable behavioral problems whereas COIN's charge is for determining whether a specific editor has a conflict of interest (COI) for a specific article and whether an edit by a COIN-declared COI editor meets a requirement of the Conflict of Interest guideline. It was pretty clear from the get-go the editor has a strong financial COI over the years and has never disclosed or stopped editing directly (they are not complying with COI guidelines), so that was already determined (and supported by the discussion at COIN and the diffs presented).

ANI may have been a better venue since these are chronic, long-term issues with the editor. As far as sending in off-wiki evidence to the "paid" en WP email or the Arbs, whenever I have done that it does not seem to result in anything, and I've never, to my memory, gotten a response, so I wonder if anyone actually reads those emails. Regarding socking, while I wouldn't rule it out (they did sock in the past), I'm not convinced there is currently socking going on. Netherzone (talk) 20:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you, but (with regards to COIN vs ANI) it wasn't me who started the thread.

My concern at present is where we go from here, as switching to ANI at this point doesn't seem practical.

My personal opinion is that Smatprt should be blocked in some way (if only topic banned). I appreciate that Star Mississippi had valid reasons for not applying that block themselves but I'm not sure how to take the matter forwards now towards a satisfactory resolution. Axad12 (talk) 20:30, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I sent all the personally identifying and compelling evidence to the functionary email but never got a response. Looking at Talk:17-Mile_Drive, it doesn't look like Smatprt is struggling with basic Wiki code, so it's a bit strange responses to allegations about Smartprt's COI behaviors are coming from IPs more than once, then saying "it was me" in a different response while logged in. I think meat puppetting is a fairly likely possibility given how close it was in timing of WP:LOUTSOCK occurrence at Talk:Edward_G._Kuster which complained about a redirect. There's likely off-Wiki private discussions. Ping to @Netherzone:. Graywalls (talk) 21:28, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

@Axad12:, Going to ANI is quite likely time consuming, but you can if you'd like to. Some editors don't even like when other editors go to COI/N without having handled the matter on talk pages first. If Smatprt comes back to edit later, the lack of cooperation in COI/N certainly won't reflect good on them. Graywalls (talk) 22:17, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed.

With regard to COIN/ANI: my personal feeling is that we all put a lot of work into uncovering UPE/COI and the reason we do that is to put a stop to it. As per previous discussions it is a fact that COIN "has no teeth", although it can often be observed that COI-lite users voluntarily stop their activities after they get reported there.

Echoing the comments by Netherzone above, where the behaviour is particularly ingrained (and where the user clearly knows that they have been operating outside of policies and guidelines for an extended period of time) then I feel that ANI is the correct arena for that problem to be aired - if only because otherwise it is demonstrably highly unlikely that admin action will be forthcoming, in which case what is the point in raising the issue at all? We all spend far too much of our time on these issues to allow that to be a common outcome.

Obviously it is unfortunate that admins do not patrol COIN with any regularity, and those who do don't seem to take action against clear abusers. There are also some admins who take the line that the only appropriate way to deal with off-wiki evidence is via the relevant email address (which, as has rightly been pointed out above, is a complete waste of time). Those admins will not take action against even the very worst UPE offenders (who are inevitably only ever identified by off-wiki evidence). That being the case, it seems that the only way to guarantee an appropriate admin response is to refer obvious sustained UPE/COI activity directly to ANI.

Apologies for the lengthy post, but there are too many threads at COIN which end up unresolved before being archived. Therefore I think we need to change tack and take the more serious cases directly to ANI. Please note that this suggestion is actually as per advice previously received from Star Mississippi.

Regards, Axad12 (talk) 23:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

@Axad12:, Smatprt is now engaging at COI/N. Graywalls (talk) 01:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Axad12 @Graywalls @Netherzone.

Speaking briefly with my admin hat, but just as an opinion and definitely not policy. As to why admins don't monitor COIN (or Close Request, as discussed on AN re: a DRV that was lingering), there are too many boards. We as a community try to file things where they belong, which is good, but that means there are too many places that need following and action. I am personally not a fan of X report is in the wrong place, file it at Y" when I can action it-you see that from me personally a lot at DRV where the "correct" answer is REFUND but FFS, let's get it done without bureaucracy so the article can be improved.

There is nothing wrong with the COIN report, but it's not going to get the eyes an AN* thread would, which means the problem lingers. On the content side, we see this with merger discussions that ultimately land at AfD. Some folks dislike any course of action, unfortunately. When COIN was created, there was a need for a standalone place to report this type of issue because AN/ANI were overloaded. With fewer admins even with the recent elections, there are too many places to actively monitor. I never mind being pinged @Axad12 (or any of you), but I don't have the bandwidth to monitor COIN unfortunately. Maybe a request for more eyes at AN, especially when there's a backlog. Long form of no real answers, unfortunately. Star Mississippi 02:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts here.

With regard to the ineffective admin response on this case at COIN in the last few hours, my feeling is that it only goes to prove my point. It's clearly very disappointing for an admin to respond that this is an enthusiast with an interest in Shakespeare and theatrical productions when the easily accessible off-wiki reality demonstrates a far more profound COI. These sort of cases evidently need as many admin eyes as necessary so as to avoid a single response along the lines of "move along, nothing to see here", effectively facilitating further COI. Axad12 (talk) 04:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I feel like the Paid queue just expanded. I need to go find the threads. I reported something to ArbComm once and they looped in the paid queue, but I didn't need resolution from them since the editor in question worked themselves into a DE block regardless of other factors. It's not a longterm answer, but ping me when I can help in the interim @Axad12 Star Mississippi 02:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

@Axad12:, have you noticed how they've been forgetting to cover unflattering things? One source already present in the article was essentially devoted to the organization, but it was used only for a minor fact verification and anything but what the article was about. There's enough in that article to possibly be worth doing an entire section for Graywalls (talk) 03:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

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