Andries

Jesus surrendered his ability to defeat Satan and that's why Word of faith adherents belive Christians can defeat him?

Do you guys actually ever read the Bible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.52.20.235 (talk) 03:53, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Share and Ben creme articles

Hey, so your front page says your no longer active on wiki, this true? Anyways, Please check the Share international talk page. I've removed a section of text that was previously uncited. Someone cited the Share International website 5 times trying to back up the bold claims (claiming the submitted predictions to world news media) and I went ahead and removed the block of text, because no sufficent sources were given (citing the website the article is about does not seem sufficent.) However, I'm new to wikipedia and I'm not sure if this was too much, perhaps I should have re-edited the article to say "Share International claims that they submitted such and such predictions to world news media, but this has yet to be substaniated" Your the one that replied to my article telling me it's ok for me to remove it if it's uncited for a week or two after I drop the uncited tag. If you could let me know what I'm supposed to do, what the corrective action is if I'm wrong, point me to the right articles, anything, I'd much appreciate it. Of course, I'll be doing my own research, but being as new as I am, I'm not sure I'll easily be able to find something that bluntly has the answer I'm looking for. I just don't want to destroy an article without just cause (on the other hand, I don't feel it's right to make such bold unsubstantiated claims, wiki has a bad rep among many schools and teaching institutions.) Tainted Entanglement (talk) 04:49, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive!

WikiProject Biography is holding a three month long assessment drive!
The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unassessed articles. The drive is running from June 1, 2007 – September 1, 2007.

Awards to be won range from delicacies such as the WikiCookie to the great Golden Wiki Award.
There are over 110,000 articles to assess so please visit the drive's page and help out!

This drive was conceived of and organized by Psychless with the help of Ozgod. Regards, Psychless ^{Type words!}.

Sock puppet

Checkuser stated it was not related by IP/location to a particular user, no more or less. It did not indicate that the account was not an abusive sockpuppet, only that the account is not related to an individual user. Vassyana (talk) 20:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I understand that, but if you accuse someone of being a sockpuppet then at least you should know the puppet master. Otherwise it is a bit like calling somebody a thief and not being able to answer the question when the thief stole, nor what object he stole , nor from whom the thief stole. Andries (talk) 20:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that's an apt comparison. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck ... The user has an obvious familiarity with the interface (very selective undo, using "rv" to mark a revert). Their edits were geared solely towards edit warring and disruption. Obvious familiarity + disruptive editing = abusive sockpuppet. It is the most common way that abusive sockpuppets are identified. Connections to particular established users are usually decided by a combination of editing patterns and checkuser verification. I hope that helps clear up where I'm coming from. Completely off-topic, how have you been of late? What's been occupying your time on-wiki? Vassyana (talk) 20:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I wrote nl:optische schijf. I am not sure about your reasoning. Someone may have been very familiar with the non-English Wikipedia and only then started editing the English Wikipedia. Andries (talk) 20:15, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Good deal. :) I saw your edits in en.wiki here and there (making some damn sensible talk page comments). I suppose it could be someone familiar with another wiki, but the immediate participation in edit warring is highly suspicious. Regardless, disruption-only accounts are regularly blocked coming out of the gate. Vassyana (talk) 20:19, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Recovery from cults book cover AFF.jpg

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Bala Sai Baba

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Clerical sexual deviancy allegations

Why do you think my title was so bad you had to change it? The allegations were made against PRIESTS not ordinary believers. The current title just panders to fashionable anti-Catholic hate speech. Do you really think that Catholic believers should be singled out in this unfair way? Is wikipedia an encyclopedia or just an airing ground for media myths and propaganda? And don't tell me to write an article on other religious group members who have commiteed sexual offences cos I think the whole thing is just totally unscientific. Religion is not necessarily the determining factor. Say a person is a Catholic doctor who commits abuse. What made him do it - being a doctor or being a Catholic? I will not be party to irrational hatred directed at randomly selected groups, based on no evidence - I oppose it and I hope that any decent person would do the same thing. Colin4C (talk) 13:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I have so many things to say that I do not know where to start. I am btw one of the main authors of Sathya Sai Baba. Andries (talk) 13:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I think there is a reason why the topic of sexual abuse by religious authorities is notable and somewhat different from other sexual abuse. 1. religious authority have more power (sociology) without any responsibility to other worldly authorities and differences of power tend quite naturally to lead to sexual abuse 2. the betrayal of trust in religious matters tends to be quite bad because religion ultimately depends on trust. Andries (talk) 13:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: category:critics of Islam

Hi Andries, the appropriate place to review the deletion is Wikipedia:Deletion review. I suggest you bring it up there if you think it deserves a category. Thanks. Spellcast (talk) 14:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I had listed it there, so I do not understand your comments. Andries (talk) 14:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

In that case, let's see if the deletion can be lifted. One of the main reasons it was deleted was because of the vague title and the possibility of too much PoV problems. For it to be undeleted, it has to address those concerns. Spellcast (talk) 14:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I understand the objections but I do not agree with them. If we delete articles and categories merely because of possible POv problems then I think 90% of Wikipedia should be deleted. Andries (talk) 14:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Kirtanananda Swami

"Changed section title I heard a different less flattering story"

I'm interested to hear your different story. Please tell.

Henrydoktorski (talk) 22:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

ehh that a devotee of Kirtananda discovered that he had several wives and that he was angry about it, but I may be confused with another successor guru of Prabhupada. Andries (talk) 22:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I think perhaps you must be thinking of someone else. Kirtanananda didn't like women.

Regarding the assassination attempt: I believe the words "distraught" and "crazed" are appropriate. I will send an e-mail as I don't want it necessarily available here.

Henrydoktorski (talk) 01:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism and other troubles in the article Siege of Leningrad

Hi, Andris,

You are right. Thank you very much for your kind reminder, I had so many books about the [[Siege of Leningrad] on my desk yesterday, that reading and editing the article took much attention, so I used the inuse template without a prior step, as you mentioned; albeit this does not mean that other users can now vandalize the article by deleting well referenced facts of history, with links to Britannica, books from my library, public libraries here in CA, and other sources.

Deletion of well sourced edits is vandalism. I do not have much time for dealing with vandals, and other users, who do not help make Wikipedia better.

Regards, Steveshelokhonov 23:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Btw, if you know Russian and have time, I would appreciate some help with translating Vistula-Oder offensive from the russian Wikipedia. See [1] Andries (talk) 23:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Articles are not identical, just like all books on history. The Russian discussion shows no activity since May 2007, their idea to post the original Russian map of operation was not accomplished, and Russian users became inactive. I'll look again during the next weekend. Steveshelokhonov 00:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

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the nerve of some people

<silliness>How dare you wikistalk me to a category deletion discussion and agree with me! The nerve! The outrage!</silliness> Just saying hello and I hope you're doing well. :) Vassyana (talk) 07:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I think this dispute has geographical aspects i.e. activism against Islam seems to be a popular career opportunity (or more positively a popular vocation) lately here in the Netherlands. It is probably not that way in other countries and contributors who voted for deletion may not be aware of the current situation in the Netherlands. Andries (talk) 08:09, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

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Kranenborg

I was depending on my memory of previous conversations regarding the source. I had thought he was discussing conversations involving witnessing to premies. My apologies if my memory is flawed and thanks for keeping close to the source. Do you still have a translation of the section used for reference kicking around? If you do, could I get a wikilink please? Thanks! Vassyana (talk) 22:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I just checked it. The word that Kranenborg uses is Dutch "ontmoeting" which is literally "meeting". Andries (talk) 22:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Tx

Geen probleem, ik wist waar ik aan begon (translation: No problem, I knew what would be coming my way) --Francis Schonken (talk) 22:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

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Prem Rawat 1RR probation

Per the discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Prem Rawat 1RR parole proposal, the articles now in category:Prem Rawat are on special 1RR and disruption probation. A notice describing the probation is at talk:Prem Rawat. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:32, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

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Rawat link

Since your online, please do us all a favor and remove the Rick Ross link at the PR article.Momento (talk) 21:10, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Prem Rawat articles, should go to RFAR

In my opinion 1rr, and DR via AN and ANI, and discussion, have failed. Take it to RFAR. Lawrence § t/e 18:18, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I admit that my behavior in the last years was not completely innocent, though I do not think that I have made any serious violation of policies any guidelines in the last half year. Andries (talk) 18:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Request for Arbitration

You have been named as a party at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Prem Rawat ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:31, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Prem Rawat

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Prem Rawat/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Prem Rawat/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, John Vandenberg (talk) 02:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

The spread of Islam in Indonesia...

Your question on the Wali Sanga (nine saints) was a good one - and resulted in me doing a fair bit of work to update the info. Ie, I added a new section to The spread of Islam in Indonesia (as I had once intended to do) and updated and created a number of articles on the texts and the sunan - see my contribs for the last day or so. kind regards --Merbabu (talk) 14:26, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

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Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sathya Sai Baba 2

Remedy 1.1 in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sathya Sai Baba 2, which provides that "Andries is banned indefinitely from editing Sathya Sai Baba and related articles or their talk pages," has been amended (as a result of a successful motion) by striking out the words "or their talk pages." Thus, Andries is now permitted to edit the talkpages of these articles, but not the articles themselves. In doing so, he is cautioned to be mindful of all applicable Wikipedia policies including those concerning conflicts of interest and biographies of living persons.

For the Arbitration Committee, Daniel (talk) 02:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Hello Andries,thank you for the advice.I will not vandalise again.Hope you enjoy wikipedia. From:Malaysian-Hardstyle

Lifting topic ban

No problem! The best thanks is to help keep things neutral there, and to remember to be careful about RSes so as to avoid any further trouble. If there's any doubt, bring it to WP:RS/N for an opinion. --Relata refero (disp.) 13:20, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Cults and new religious movements in literature and popular culture

I have nominated Cults and new religious movements in literature and popular culture, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cults and new religious movements in literature and popular culture (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Sceptre ^(talk) 18:03, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Prem Rawat mergers

You left ambiguous merge tags on Teachings of Prem Rawat. That particualr merge is being debated at Talk:Teachings of Prem Rawat#Merging?, but without you to explain your intent it's hard to make progress. Because there are several merge proposals on the table, I've create a central thread to discuss them and the overall division of material. Talk:Prem Rawat#Organization Your particiaption there would be helpful. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Theory of Religious Economy

Hello Andries,

Thanks for the helpful links and advice. I am new to wikipedia, so any input is much appreciated. I plan to work on the development section, researching some key figures and their applicable publications. I find the Theory of Religious Economy interesting and hope to make some relevant additions to the page. Any input or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I am not familiar with the religious situation in the Netherlands (I am from the US), but would be interested in reading about criticisms of the theory from that region. Unrelated topic-My favorite artists (I am a painting major) are from the Netherlands - Bruegel, Van Eyck, Van Der Weyden, etc. Anyways, Thanks,-(Ad Re Spring 2008 (talk) 03:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC))

Hi Andries,

Thanks for you edits to the entry on Religious economy. It is certainly improving, but it still has much improvement to go. I am recruiting a set of students to improve it further, and I think that it will be much better by the time they are done with it. Their work cycle will be the next 6 weeks. So I would like a stay of merge-ing until after that and we and other Wikipedians can assess the value of the page then. Best, --Htw3 (talk) 13:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Munster

I moved Munster back where it came from. I think a requested move would make sense here. Münster and Munster are not at all the same. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I had proposed it on the talk page and received no objections. Andries (talk) 17:30, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, you have one now, and if you'd like more than one, I'm sure I can rustle up a flashmob of irate Irish wikipedians. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:43, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

The article Munster keeps on getting incorrect links. I had removed most of them recently. Andries (talk) 17:47, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

And it will continue to collect incorrect links, just like all vaguely ambiguous names and many disambiguation pages. There are over 1500 pages link to Munster, most of which are referring to the Irish one on a very cursory check. It may make it slighly easier to spot mistaken links, but that's it. Angus McLellan (Talk) 18:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the article Munster (Ireland) will not collect incorrect incoming links. so there is a very good reason for the move. Andries (talk) 18:17, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

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Share International

I think not, making unsourced and unverifiable claims is advertising even if "claim" is stuck in front. Spurs is the best team in the world and Spurs claim they are the best team in the world are equally spammy. we call it the Age of Aquarius is a bit of a give away too. Jimfbleak (talk) 09:48, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

latest comments on my talk, since discussion seems to have moved there Jimfbleak (talk) 04:59, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Andries wrote: Is this notice board for discussing each and every minor religious group? To me, it seems that minor religious groups (See list of new religious movements and list of cults) should not be discussed here only because of this reason. Andries (talk) 16:01, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Andries, Share International is not a religious group, and it has been discussed on Fringe theories/Noticeboard. (Even Alice Bailey's teachings, that Share International is loosely based on, can not be considered a religion.) The fact is that you are trying to use Wikipedia as a free web host to promote Share International; and -- know that this misuse has been made known -- you are trying to present yourself as a religious martyr. If you had written a balanced article, instead of that piece promotional hype, all this dispute could have been completely avoided. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 17:26, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I have been accused of both anti-cult and pro-cult. The former more often than the latter. So I think your allegation that I try to promote Share International is untrue. Andries (talk) 21:50, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Let me repeat: If you had written a balanced article, instead of that piece promotional hype you did write, all this dispute could have been completely avoided. And I can add: When you change the articles so that they are neutral, there will be no further dispute. Malcolm Schosha (talk) 22:05, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. Andries has worked diligently at being a royal pain in the neck to anyone trying to get a fair hearing for just about ANY new religious group. If he is a martyr, he is an anti-religious one. I don't think his intention here was to be promotional, more likely he was trying to assert his neutrality. It won't work, Andries! (How are you going, by the way?) Rumiton (talk) 13:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Prem Rawat

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. Evidence presented did not disclose a history of problematic editing, in terms of basic content policy, by Jossi, and the Committee commended Jossi's self-imposed restriction to edit only talk pages for Prem Rawat related articles. Due to a history of incivility and personal attacks surrounding articles related to the Prem Rawat movement, the preexisting community enforced one-revert rule on Prem Rawat and related articles that commenced March 4, 2008, has been superceeded by Arbitration Committee enforced article probation. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 15:17, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Cults, sects, and new religious movements

This project that you created was proposed for speedy deletion on the grounds that it overlaps with Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion. I have removed the speedy tags, but maybe you need to discuss with the folks over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion, to see what links there should be. Maybe it could be a sub-project or a task force. --Bduke (talk) 09:08, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Sikh Thugs

Page 329 of the UK edition - notes to Chapter 16.

"There seem to have been very few Sikh Thugs. But Sahib Khan, the Deccan strangler, 'knew Ram Sing Siek: he was a noted Thug leader - a very shrewd man,' who also served with the Pindaris for a while and was responsible for the assassination of the notorious Pindari leader Sheikh Dulloo.' Sleeman, Ramaseeana I, 239-40."

Thanks! Mikedash (talk) 23:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

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Theory of Religious Economy

I'd like your thoughts on the additions to this article from the "Spring 2008" editors. It seems like they ARE doing this for a class, despite previous assertions that the educational aspect was done. It does seem like they're not used to speaking and writing formal English. Am I WP:BITEing them by aggressively copyediting as much of they write as I can stand? Jclemens (talk) 03:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it is okay. The problems with the article are several

1. rather off-topic digressions

2. too much US-centric and as a related consequence tend to lump different countries together that have little in common with regards to cultural differences and religions. For example, Belgium and the Netherlands that are neighbouring countries have a completely different law against cults (no laws in the Netherlands). Also post-communist countries differ very much from each other. Why is Czechia free but non-religious and why is Russia much more religious? (Though I believe there is a lot of room for non-Orthodox religion in Russia)

3. Not NPOV: criticism is missing. Clearly this theory cannot explain as much as it proponents claim.

4. Lay out and referencing should be improved.

Andries (talk) 11:17, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Plagiarism guideline

I've proposed the creation of a separate guideline for plagiarism and avoiding it. See here. I mentioned there the guideline you created in your user space. Hopefully someone will use that to start it off. Carcharoth (talk) 19:58, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Arathi

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Arathi, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Arathi

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MfD nomination of User:Andries/list of self-proclaimed deities

User:Andries/list of self-proclaimed deities, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Andries/list of self-proclaimed deities and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Andries/list of self-proclaimed deities during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. —Bkell (talk) 16:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

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Your User Page

You may think your User Page quotes to be succinct and rather clever but I have the upper-hand on you both intellectually, morally, and religiously. The next time you consider using intellect as a mask for your true agenda, ponder that your quote betrays no more depth of thought or consideration than the dribble produced for mass-consumption by Nichez.

Moral decisions are not always bad by definition. If truth exists, then it may at times be arrived at by human beings.

And your address of the legitimacy of organized religion based on the motivation of their adherents in taking them up is circular and non-sensical at best! Why not address a particular religion as to its truth, or worse, all of them as being untrue. What does their adherents' motivations have to do with these religions' claims as to what is true and what is not.

You have read yourself into a box filled with things you wish to read. My warning to you is that in this manner you will not find the truth and this may be doing you a great disservice of cumulative character. No amount of thinking will change the truth.

Epigraphist (talk) 15:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

But I have compassion upon you regarding your experience with Sathya Sai Baba. Believe me perhaps not, but I assure you that there is one truth and that humans are capable of understanding parts of it -very important parts- in the life that is knowable by the senses.

You have my consideration.

Epigraphist (talk) 15:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008)

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Sathya Sai Baba movement

I went through and removed a ton of unsourced material from that article, though there are still whole chunks of portions with no citations. Cirt (talk) 06:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I do not see many unsourced statements in the article. Andries (talk) 06:59, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

There are whole unsourced paragraphs in a few places. Cirt (talk) 07:13, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

After a second look, I do see quite a lot of unsourced material, but many of it is either well-known, publicly verifiable, and undisputed (e.g. about the ashram) or sourced already in the article Sathya Sai Baba. Andries (talk) 07:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Well that does not help the fact that there is uncited/unsourced material in this article. (Especially an article like this on a controversial topic.) Cirt (talk) 08:02, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Why is Sathya Sai Baba movement unbalanced?

Because there is quite obviously nothing featured relating to the public reception of the movement. Also, there are a number of web based sources used, these are weak verifiers, especially if the site is a Sai Baba site. Plus, there is nothing about the controversey surrounding the miracle work, or the attempts to debunk it, the videos that evidence trickery, or anything about certain key followers responses to abuse allegations. Also, nothing about the movements ties to state government and policing or the wider influential network that includes a number of notable individuals. I have just toned down one paragraph that read pretty poorly in terms of objectivity. I'm afraid I will have to decline from entering into further discussion on this. If the tag offends you please remove it. Thanks. Semitransgenic (talk) 21:19, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

1. Public reception is missing, I have to admit that, but that has little to do with neutrality.

2.I think the controversies (sexual abuse, false miracles) should be treated in Sathya Sai Baba, not here, because they are very closely related to the person of Sathya Sai Baba. Lack of substance in teachings should and is treated here.

3.I cannot remove the neutrality tag, because the arbcom thinks that I have a conflict of interest.

Andries (talk) 21:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Just by way of clarifying the tag directive: it relates to balance. It simply asks readers to: Please improve the article by adding information on neglected viewpoints. There are clearly a number of neglected view points, I don't doubt there is plenty in the literature on NRM's of relevance, I simply don't have the time to delve into any of it. Regarding the other points, his followers constitute 'the movement', therefore what they believe can be legitimately addressed. One of the core beliefs has to do with acceptance of miracle work so why is it incorrect to deal with the criticism and controversy surrounding this? And, there are quite obviously ties between the movement and local government, and with members of the Indian government but this is not addressed either. Forgive me for being cynical but the article is, in many respects, a content fork from the main Sai Baba page, I don't see how you can separate the man from the movement when one emanates from the other.If you are a true devotee you will find a way to remove the tag ; ) That's my final word on the issue Semitransgenic (talk) 00:13, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure whether the movement emanates from the leader. There is a line of thoughts in study of cults that says that far too much influence has attributed to the leader (e.g. J. Gordon Melton is a representative of that)

A short treament of the controversies in Sathya Sai Baba movement and further referring to Sathya Sai Baba for more information would be okay to me but a re-hashing of the controversies, sorry, no, I think that would be wrong. Andries (talk) 07:05, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXII (October 2008)

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This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:21, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi,

The modest and plain look of what is nowadays considered the traditional Dutch cuisine,

Yes But is there an article on the traditional Dutch cuisine? The link is red...

Warrington (talk) 10:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

No, bu~t I think there should be. The reason is that traditional Dutch cuisine is very different from the motley contemporary Dutch cuisine. They are two different subjects. Andries (talk) 20:49, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree!. Wonderful idea

Are they any good sources and references on this subject?

Warrington (talk) 12:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Mediation on Prem Rawat

Andries, you were involved in Vassyana's informal mediation on the Prem Rawat articles, and I was not. However I read through the talk pages earlier this year and got the impression that over that lengthy mediation Vassyana had tended to support one side more than another. For that reason I have opposed Vassyana's nomination for ArbCom. Another user has stated that they don't think Vassyana showed partiality. I don't want to make a big case of this, but I suppose it'd be helpful to other voters to provide some evidence. As I said, that mediation lasted a long time and spread across many talk page archives. You know the case far better than I, so in the interests of time and efficiency I'm wondering if you have any relevant recollections of Vassyana's participation (pro or con) that you can share. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:10, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

My view on the matter is colored because I then felt and still feel that the complaints by User:jossi and user:momento about an alleged violation of WP:NOT are baseless. There was no need for a rewrite. See the mediation by Vassyana of Talk:Techniques_of_Knowledge. To be honest I do not really remember much of the mediation by Vassyana on talk:Prem Rawat except that some of his assessments of sources (e.g. Levine, Van der Lans) was misguided. Andries (talk) 15:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIII (November 2008)

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CfD nomination of Category:Anti-Islam activists

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Proposed deletion of List of religious sects

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIV (December 2008)

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no.

"I am busy providing citations on the talk page. Did you check it? Please restore statement for which citations have already been provided on the talk page. Arbcom thinks that I have a conflict of interest, so I cannot edit the article directly.".

the onus is on those who want statements to be included to add the references. If you can get people to agree with your sources, get them to re-add the statements WITH the sources, unsourced statements will not sit on BLP article pages while the sources are being discussed. they can be re-added when people agree the sources are good. I'll be reading that article more carefully later - if it's not got a source, I'll scrub it - as per our BLP policy. --Cameron Scott (talk) 22:11, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

There are no "exceptional circumstances" - it's unsourced, it's gone. I can see why you aren't directly allow to edit the article if you don't understand the basis of WP:BLP. --Cameron Scott (talk) 22:16, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

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Aktion T4 and euthanasia (February 2009)

May be you are interested in the recent "discussion" about modifications recently made on the section Aktion T4 and euthanasia of the that article

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVI (February 2009)

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Coordinator Elections

Nominations for Coordinator positions in the Military History WikiProject have commenced, and voting will begin on March 14, 2009. Make sure to get involved and ask questions to the candidates. Nominations for Coordinators goes until March 13. Then come out for the voting which begins on March 14. Thanks and Have a Great Day! Lord R. T. Oliver ^{The Olive Branch} 00:02, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

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Sathya Sai Baba and Arbitration Enforcement

Please note that I have created an arbitration enforcement thread, seen here. ←Spidern→ 14:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you know more about the Dec 2007 version than I do. Please contribute your thoughts to the above link and why this version is better than the current version. I have written some of my comments. Radiantenergy (talk) 16:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Francis Lucille

Hi, I have found your usernames on articles related to advaita. I need your help and suggestion. I am trying to add an article on one of the Living spiritual teacher. but,I am facing an problem.

The editors who have visited this page don't understand spirituality and they have tagged it for deletion. i need your help urgently. so they are trying to compare it with other biographies in the field of sports etc. As you know,the field the spirituality is not very commercial. so I am having a hard time convincing them. could you please help and and take a look at article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lucille http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Francis_Lucille.

Appreciate all your help.

Thanks Amarhindustani (talk) 18:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

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Proposed deletion of Parody religion

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Parody religion, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process because of the following concern:

not notable OR and SYN

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Wikipedia:External Links

Hello Andries. Pruning through the history of WP:EL, I found this thread which you created. I agree with you about the ridiculous strictness, and I observe that it has, perhaps accidentally, partially returned, though it's often not applied in practice. I started a discussion here: Wikipedia_talk:External_links#Proposed_ELNO_.232_exception. PSWG1920 (talk) 01:48, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XXXIX (May 2009)

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SSB

A vote on adding the youtube videos to the Sathya Sai Baba page can be found here. Your opinion on the matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Onopearls ^(t/c) 02:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		For your continued efforts to bring a sense of balance to the Sathya Sai Baba page through the sandbox Onopearls (t/c) 03:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Could you please share your perspective in this discussion:[2]. Thank you : ). Dilip rajeev (talk) 19:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XL (June 2009)

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File:Pre-flavoured tofu from Albert Heijn supermarkt chain the Netherland nr3.jpg missing description details

Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as File:Pre-flavoured tofu from Albert Heijn supermarkt chain the Netherland nr3.jpg is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors to make better use of the image, and it will be more informative for readers.

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Arbitration Enforcement Case

You can see this case related to Sathya Sai Baba article here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=307807198

Radiantenergy (talk) 20:29, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

New Kadampa tradition

Isnt anyone going to do anything about this page? They are a hugely controversial NRM who manipulate WP wantonly. If the Brahma Kumaris on 'on probation' the NKTY should certainly be so-read the edit histories/discussion94.192.139.167 (talk) 17:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

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Military history coordinator elections: voting has started!

Voting in the Military history WikiProject coordinator election has now started. The aim is to elect the coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of sixteen candidates. Please vote here by 23:59 (UTC) on 26 September!
For the coordinators,  Roger Davies ^talk 22:09, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Social and Cultural Planning Office

The article Social and Cultural Planning Office has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No assertion of notability. Every nation has government agencies, no reason for WP to have an article on this one.

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XLIII (September 2009)

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Test your World War I knowledge with the Henry Allingham International Contest!

As a member of the Military history WikiProject or World War I task force, you may be interested in competing in the Henry Allingham International Contest! The contest aims to improve article quality and member participation within the World War I task force. It will also be a step in preparing for Operation Great War Centennial, the project's commemorative effort for the World War I centenary.

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XLIV (October 2009)

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Request for Assistance

I am inviting members of Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion/New religious movements work group in on the discussion of Move/name change/notability/merge discussion on New England Institute of Religious Research Currently PelleSmith (talk · contribs) and Weaponbb7 (talk · contribs) seem to have reached a roadblock in discourse with Cirt (talk · contribs). Any help would be appreciated! Weaponbb7 (talk) 23:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

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Sai Baba article

Hi Andries. How is the German researcher work going? The sources I have are somewhat old, and do not touch on the controversies. Can you help me with scholarly articles that do, especially ones that evaluate how much, and in what ways, the various allegations have impacted on the organisation and the subject himself? Thanks. Rumiton (talk) 15:22, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

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Nominations for the March 2010 Military history Project Coordinator elections now open!

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Coordinator elections have opened!

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TM RFAR

FYI. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Transcendental Meditation movement has already moved to the voting phase, so I doubt the committee members are paying much attention to the evidence page anymore. To the extent that they are, I don't think that background materials would help them. I suspect that the only thing that would interest them now would be evidence of recent egregious behavior.   Will Beback  talk  11:00, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

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You are now a Reviewer

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LIII (July 2010)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue LIII (July 2010) Front page Project news Articles Members Editorial

Project news New parameter for military conflict infobox introduced; Preliminary information on the September coordinator elections	Articles Milhist's newest featured and A-Class content
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User:ZirconiumTwice

Hi there. Have you ever awarded the above user a barnstar? He's using your name on a barnstar on his talkpage. He's been in a number of editing disputes recently so I have his pages watched, but you don't appear to have done this. Cheers, Strange Passerby (talk) 11:14, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I was just coming to ask this myself. In this s/he places it on the talkpage, and in a recent edit edited it so that it appears to be from you. Thanks! Syrthiss (talk) 11:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I did not give Zirconiumtwice a barnstar, nor anyone under the user id Andries. (I am always afraid that my daughter will take revenge on me by abusing my userid when I tell her to do homework or to help in the household.)Andries (talk) 20:57, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Email

I received your email. Please use my talk page to contact me. Stifle (talk) 08:21, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LIV (August 2010)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue LIV (August 2010) Front page Project news Articles Members Editorial

Project news The return of reviewer awards, task force discussions, and more information on the upcoming coordinator election	Articles A recap of the month's new Featured and A-Class articles, including a new featured sound
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Nokia C6

Hi, now that you've converted Nokia C6 into a disambig, could you fix the link in {{Nokia 3G}} per WP:FIXDABLINKS? (I would do it myself but I'm not certain the C6-01 should be in the list or not.) Thanks, --JaGa^talk 10:14, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

There are a lot. But if you're going to go creating disambig pages, you should be willing to make the necessary changes to fix the templates you affect. I see you've done Nokia X3 now - there are two templates to fix: see here. Could you take care of that? --JaGa^talk 10:28, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Will do, please be a bit patient. Nevertheless I continue to hold the opinion that the number of lists and templates for Nokia and Symbian phones should be reduced to improve maintainability. Andries (talk) 10:32, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

The Milhist election has started!

The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has started. You are cordially invited to help pick fourteen new coordinators from a pool of twenty candidates. This time round, the term has increased from six to twelve months so it is doubly important that you have your say! Please cast your vote here no later than 23:59 (UTC) on Tuesday, 28 September 2010.

With many thanks in advance for your participation from the coordinator team,  Roger Davies ^talk 21:17, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Your comment at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 September 19#camera phones by megapixel count

I see you commented at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 September 19#camera phones by megapixel count]] that you think that certain other categories (Category:autofocus camera phones and Category:Xenon flash camera phones should be created. Please note that this isn't the subject of the CfD discussion; only categories which define the camera phones by megapixel count (or pixel count, or any similar count) are relevant. If you want these categories create, feel free to create them. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 12:44, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Non-existent link Nokia C5-03

Hello, Andries

I see that you have added Nokia C5-03 to Template:Nokia phones and have made a disambiguation page out of Nokia C5 the disambiguate Nokia C5-00 and C5-03. However, the problem is that no such article as Nokia C5-03 is currently in existence. Please notice that the aim of a disambiguation page and as well as a navbox is to help people reach articles more effectively, not to lead them to dead ends. If you wish to create a link to C5-03, please create a valid article first.

I have reverted your edits per R part of BRD. I respect your right to proceed per D part of BRD (discussion). Fleet Command (talk) 05:36, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I created the article, but in hindsight what should have been done is to unlink Nokia C5-03 (i.e. "Nokia C5-03"") on the disambig Nokia C5 page, instead of removing the disambiguation. Andries (talk) 18:40, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I see. Thank you very much. Perhaps you are right; or... perhaps you haven't seen as many spinster red links entries as I did. But I guess we're bound to come across such bumps in editing such a large encyclopedia. Cheers. Fleet Command (talk) 19:12, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LV (September 2010)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue LV (September 2010) Front page Project news Articles Members Editorial

Project news The results of September's coordinator elections, plus ongoing project discussions and proposals	Articles A recap of the month's new Featured and A-Class articles
Members Our newest A-class medal recipients, this September's top contestants, plus the reviewers' Roll of Honour (Apr-Sep 2010)	Editorial In the final part of our series on copyright, Moonriddengirl describes how to deal with copyright infringements on Wikipedia
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. BrownBot (talk) 21:01, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Children of God

Category:Children of God, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. The Resident Anthropologist (talk) 18:22, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LVI, October 2010

Your Military history Newsletter Project News: Editors for the newsletter, GAN backlog reduction drive Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients Editorial: EyeSerene sums up our "Five years of military history"

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The Bugle: Issue LVII, November 2010

Your Military History Newsletter Project News: From the editors, "Military Historian of the Year", New Incubator, Black Project Report Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients Editorial: bahamut guides us through "Nominating military biographies for deletion"

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thanks for re-organizing the set of Symbian related articles

Most welcome :) I read up a bit on the talk pages and I saw someone say it needs to be done, plus I figured it could be merged since I'm a quality-not-quantity sort, you know, the bigger the mess, the harder it gets for newcomers to understand what in the world Symbian/Platform/OS/whatever is and what it does. I hope I can make it simpler, I actually just did a cut-paste job with a little bit of thought since I was really busy on that day. Its rare to ever get any thanks or compliments on Wikipedia, so yours is much appreciated. For years I've been waiting for those barnstars ... I've done a lot of work on other articles, written up lots to expand them - full list on my user page.....

Tom Jenkins ^(reply) 21:40, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LVIII, December 2010

Your military history newsletter – Volume LVIII, December 2010 From the editors • "Military Historian of the Year" • Discussions • The month's new featured and A-class content • Review awards Contest results • A-class medal recipients • bahamut teaches us proper usage of "Jargon and acronyms" To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here. BrownBot (talk) 20:17, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Autopatrolled

Hello, this is just to let you know that I have granted you the "autopatrolled" permission. This won't affect your editing, it just automatically marks any page you create as patrolled, benefiting new page patrollers. Please remember:

• This permission does not give you any special status or authority
• Submission of inappropriate material may lead to its removal
• You may wish to display the {{Autopatrolled}} top icon and/or the {{User wikipedia/autopatrolled}} userbox on your user page
• If, for any reason, you decide you do not want the permission, let me know and I can remove it

If you have any questions about the permission, don't hesitate to ask. Otherwise, happy editing! Acalamari 11:28, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Symbian

Thanks! I reorganized them because I saw the mess it was in and how hard it would make it for newcomers. Would love a barnstar just for the heck of it!!!

Tom Jenkins ^(reply) 10:30, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi! Good idea, take a look at my contribs on my user page. All listed and waiting to be explored. Have fun. -- Tom Jenkins ^(reply) 20:00, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Did I do well? -- Tom Jenkins ^(reply) 01:20, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

Hi andries.

Writing to remind you that you offered a barnstar if my contributions were good. Please see my user page for the full list. I've created 6 pages fully, from scratch, and lots of other new sections as well.

Thanks, Tom -- Tom Jenkins ^(reply) 11:02, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

THANK YOU!!!! -- Tom Jenkins ^(reply) 01:29, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Volume LVIX, January 2011

Your Military history Newsletter Project News: From the editors Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients Editorial: EyeSerene discusses "Writing neutrally for Wikipedia"

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The Bugle: Issue LX, February 2011

Your Military History Newsletter Project News: From the editors Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients Editorial: Ed talks about real-world collaborations and how you can help

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The Bugle: Issue LXI, March 2011

Your Military History Newsletter Project News: From the editors Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients Editorial: Dank helps you see what article writers want from reviewers

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The Bugle: Issue LXII, April 2011

Your Military History Newsletter Project News: From the editors Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Members: Contest results, A-class medal recipients Editorial: Buggie111 discusses neutral point of view

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Nomination of Post-cult trauma for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Post-cult trauma is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Post-cult trauma until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 19:49, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

thx for the warning. Andries (talk) 18:12, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Defense of neutral editing

Hi, Andries

I wonder if you remember me from the old days (like 2004) when we worked together on cult articles. As I recall, you and I took opposite sides yet always worked together without any friction. Each of us respected the work of the other, and both of us felt free to describe the opposing points of view on ideas such as cult brainwashing. I don't think we ever had an edit war or an NPOV dispute. --Uncle Ed (talk) 00:02, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXIII, May 2011

Your Military History Newsletter Project News: From the editors – Contest results, A-class medal recipients Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Editorial: Hawkeye's thoughts on the article writing process

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Nokia Nseries

I think it would be better if people will have one page to search for the phones lying on the Nseries, Eseries, Cseries, Xseries and Tseries range. I'm going to redirect it again, after 72 hours.Beyoncé Superfanatic 18:20, 15 June 2011 (UTC)User:Beyoncé Superfanatic

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ed Poor 2 has been amended by the Arbitration Committee

Please see here for further details. On behalf of the arbitration committee, Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:06, 25 June 2011 (UTC).

RFC comment

Andries. Regarding your comment at the Cirt RFC do you think you can elaborate a bit more on the connection between what you say about Cirt and the statement you make about Melton and other sources on NRMs. Those of us who are not as familiar with Cirt's editing in that area may not understand why you are talking about those sources. I don't understand why. I agree with you that they are reliable sources, but am not sure why you are pointing that out. Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 13:05, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Because Jayen said in the RFC that Cirt rejected Melton as a reliable source. Search for "Melton". Andries (talk) 13:08, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Ah. Got it. Sorry there has been so much information in the RFC that I can't keep track of it all. Maybe it would be good to mention that in the comment? Thanks.Griswaldo (talk) 13:15, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

OK thanks for the clarification on my talk page. I have altered my endoresment so as to connect my view about good faith with what you meant.Griswaldo (talk) 13:56, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Regarding Melton's methodology

Andries, I'm no expert when it comes to Melton or the study of NRMs, but I do have a fair amount of basic knowledge of this area in the study of religion. What people like Melton are doing is really, and perhaps surprisingly to ex-members, very mainstream when it comes to religious studies methodology. When religion scholars study mainstream religions they rarely incorporate the testimony of apostates. Now, I understand that there are contextual differences that might suggest that apostate (or "ex-member") experiences are more important in the NRM field than in the study of religion more generally -- for instance NRMs have a much higher turnover rate in membership. So maybe someone like Melton is applying standard methods to a fault and maybe there are fair criticisms to be had there. That said, I think there is a lack of appreciation among those who criticize his work, and that of many of his colleagues, of that fact that their approach is really very standard within the study of religion, and to them treating NRMs differently than other religions would be doing them an injustice. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 14:20, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I understand all this, but I also understand very well that some ex-members (and anti-cultists) are angry with Melton because he treats critical ex-members as if the story of their lives is completely irrelevant. With such an attitude, Melton pushed ex-members to the anti-cult movement. Ignoring stories of ex-members who in some cases, like myself, had a really bad experience is a sensitive issue for me. So I had better stop writing about it. But I hope it is clear from what I wrote that I read and thought about it. I also read some books by Bromley about the subject, among others, The Politics of Religious Apostasy. Andries (talk) 14:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Request for Arbitration Notification

Hello, due to recent events a request for arbitration has been filed by ResidentAnthropologist (talk · contribs) regarding long standing issues in the "Cult" topic area. The request can be found at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Cults The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 07:39, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Access time

An article that you have been involved in editing, Access time , has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. § Music Sorter § (talk) 06:19, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXIV, June 2011

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; medal recipients; contest results Articles: The month's featured and A-class Milhist content Book reviews: Nick-D looks at Finland and Spitfires Op-ed: Fifelfoo and hunting for plagiarism

To receive this newsletter on your talk page, join the project or sign up here. If you are a member who does not want delivery, please go to this page. BrownBot (talk) 22:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Cults and new religious movements in literature and popular culture for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Cults and new religious movements in literature and popular culture is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cults and new religious movements in literature and popular culture(3rd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 21:45, 1 August 2011 (UTC)