Wikidata:Requests for comment/Sockpuppetry guidelines
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- There is clear support for the proposed guideline, with three of the four "addenda" failing and other passing.
To enumerate:
- The overview section passes. It is unclear to me if there might be opposers to Legoktm's amendment, but as there are only supporters for the amendment, his amendment also passes. Editors whom disagree with it should consider a talk page discussion on the to-be-created sockpuppetry guidelines page.
- The legitimate uses section passes. I will note Michaeldsuarez's unanswered question at 00:55, 28 June 2013 (UTC); further discussion should be elicited on the talk page of the to-be-created sockpuppetry guidelines page. Ajradditz also has a suggestion that might be taken into account for a future discussion.
- The illegitimate uses section passes. I will note multiple of Hazard-SJ's questions which have gone unanswered; again, further discussion should be elicited on the talk page of the to-be-created sockpuppetry guidelines page.
- The enforcement section passes, with notably weak support. Discussion of the scope of this section should be continued on the talk page of the to-be-created sockpuppetry guidelines page.
- Addenda 1, 2, and 3 all fail, with broad opposition.
- The addendum 4 passes. As with the enforcement section, addendum 4 has questionable support and so discussion should be elicited on the talk page of the to-be-created sockpuppetry talk page.
On a side note, it is unclear to me whether this should be a guideline or a policy, given the inconsistency in the naming of the RFC and the introduction by Sven Manguard. My personal feeling is that most such items should be guidelines, but that's just me. Cheers. --Izno (talk) 23:21, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
An editor has requested the community to provide input on "Sockpuppetry guidelines" via the Requests for comment (RFC) process. This is the discussion page regarding the issue.
If you have an opinion regarding this issue, feel free to comment below. Thank you! |
THIS RFC IS CLOSED. Please do NOT vote nor add comments.
We've reached the point in the project's lifespan where it makes more sense to develop a policy on sockpuppetry than it does not to have one. A recent discussion in the #wikidata-admin IRC channel about how to handle a known sockpuppeteer who has waded over to Wikidata from his/her home Wikipedia has reveled that the admins aren't of consensus right now as to what is socking and how best to handle it. This RfC is being conducted to rectify the issue.
The way that this RfC is going to work is that I'm going going to propose a policy in several sections, and at the bottom I'm going to open it up for comments separated by section.
If everyone likes everything, we can make it policy. If people have issues with specific points, I'd like to fix them before this gets put to a straight up or down vote.
Cheers, Sven Manguard Wha? 03:19, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Contents
Overview
[edit]The use of multiple Wikidata user accounts for an improper purpose is called sock puppetry (often abbreviated in discussion as "socking"). Improper purposes include attempts to deceive or mislead other editors, disrupt discussions, distort consensus, avoid sanctions, or otherwise violate community standards and policies.
Editors are expected to edit primarily from a single account, used by a single person. There are a number of circumstances, listed below, where having alternate accounts is considered acceptable. Alternate accounts may have names that do not make it immediate obvious that they are alternate accounts, and may have names that do not make it immediately obvious to which main account they are related, but they must prominently link to the main account on their userpages, and all alternate accounts must be declared if the main account is running for any position that requires a community discussion (translation administrator, bot, administrator, bureaucrat, checkuser, or oversighter).
It is important to note that neither the list of legitimate uses nor the list of illegitimate uses presented below are full and complete lists.
Addendum 2
[edit]This section was added for consideration after the RfC began. If approved, it would be placed in between the second and third paragraphs of the "Overview" section.
Editors may choose to edit without creating an account (in which case they will appear in edit histories as the IP address they are using), however editors that are not using accounts should be aware that while participating in any type of discussion as an IP is perfectly acceptable, they cannot vote (make a comment beginning with "support" or "oppose") in those discussions, and are prohibited from using multiple IP addresses to perform any of the actions listed in the "Illegitimate uses of alternate accounts" section. If an editor contributes to a single discussion using multiple IP addresses (which can happen if the discussion takes place over several days and the editor's IP address is not static), it is strongly recommended that the editor note at the end of their comment the previous IP addresses used in that discussion (i.e. "I am the same person as 75.75.75.75 from yesterday").
Addendum 3
[edit]This section was added for consideration after the RfC began. If approved, it would be placed immediately after the last period of the second paragraph of the "Overview" section.
With the exception of the confirmed, IP block exempt, bot, flooder, autopatroller, and rollbacker user rights, editors may only have user rights and advanced permissions on their main account. If an editor is discovered to have user rights or advanced permissions such as translation administrator, administrator, bureaucrat, checkuser, or oversighter on more than one account that they control, it is grounds for immediate removal of those rights on all accounts that the editor controls.
Addendum 4
[edit]This section was added for consideration after the RfC began. If approved, it would be placed immediately after the last period of the second paragraph of the "Overview" section. Additional text as compared to addendum 3 is in italics.
With the exception of the confirmed, IP block exempt, bot, flooder, autopatroller, property creator, and rollbacker user rights, editors may only have user rights and advanced permissions on their main account. If an editor is discovered to have user rights or advanced permissions such as translation administrator, administrator, bureaucrat, checkuser, or oversighter on more than one account that they control, it is grounds for immediate removal of those rights on all accounts that the editor controls. An administrator may operate an "adminbot" with the sysop flag on an alternate account after approval from the community according to the bot policy. Also, Wikimedia and WMDE staff accounts are not included in this section for the purposes of multiple accounts with advanced permissions.
Legitimate uses of alternate accounts
[edit]- Security: Since public computers can have password-stealing trojans or keyloggers installed, users may register an alternative account to prevent the hijacking of their main accounts.
- Testing and training: Users who use a lot of scripts and other tools may wish to keep a second, "vanilla" account, for testing how things appear to others; or for demonstrating Wikidata's default appearance when training new users.
- Doppelgänger accounts: A doppelgänger account is a second account created with a username similar to one's main account to prevent impersonation. Such accounts should not be used for editing.
- Flooders: Users that undertake high volume manual or semi-automatic edits, and are frequent use of the flooder flag, may wish to create a second account for those tasks for organizational reasons.
- Bots: Users that operate bots, or automatic edit scripts, are required to run their bots off of alternate accounts.
Alternate accounts must be publicly declared, and the userpages of the alternate accounts must link back to the main account in an obvious fashion. Common ways of doing this include redirecting the user and talk pages of the alternate to the user and talk pages of the main account, using a template such as {{Bot}}
that specifies the master account, or leaving a linked message in text at the top of the user page. If alternate accounts do not link to the main account, they are not considered legitimate alternate accounts.
Illegitimate uses of alternate accounts
[edit]- Manipulating discussions: Attempting to sway the outcome of a discussion through the use of multiple accounts is, regardless of intent, never acceptable. Examples of using alternate accounts to manipulate discussions include using multiple accounts to stack votes, using an account to make straw man arguments, or using an alternate account to appear as a neutral third-party or neutral observer.
- Circumventing sanctions or blocks: Alternate accounts, even legitimate alternate accounts, may not be used to circumvent a block or editing restriction. Unless otherwise stated by the admin placing the block or restriction, a block or editing restriction placed on the main account applies to the user behind the account, regardless of which one they use. It should go without saying that creating an account ahead of time to commit vandalism or harassment, or otherwise improperly or maliciously edit, in the hopes that the burn account will not be traced back to the original user is unacceptable.
- Accounts that do not serve a productive purpose: With the exception of doppelgänger accounts, the expectation is that alternate accounts will be used to constructively edit the project. Creating an account just to joke around with, or just to have an alternate account, while not as serious as the above two points, is still considered an illegitimate use of alternate accounts.
It should also be noted that simply logging out or otherwise using an IP address instead of an account to do any of these things will also be treated as an illegitimate use.
Addendum 1
[edit]This idea may be controversial and therefore is being proposed in a seperate section so that it can be commented on separately below.
The addendum would go immediately below the third bullet point in the section "Illegitimate uses of alternate accounts"
- Multiple main accounts: Wikidata users are expected to have only one main account (as opposed to legitimate alternate accounts), and if they ever stop using that main account and have to create a new main account (for example in the case of a compromised or lost password), are expected not to resume using the old main account. Editing from multiple main accounts at the same time, even if all of the edits are constructive, is prohibited.
Enforcement
[edit]In the absence of local checkusers and a local checkuser policy, Wikidata will rely on the stewards as needed and file requests for checkuser at meta. Administrators can also rely on publicized results of checkusers run on other projects, such as sockpuppet investigations, and behavioral evidence, in determining whether or not multiple accounts are being operated by the same person.
Illegitimate alternate accounts are almost always indefinitely blocked. IPs used in socking are generally blocked for a period of between a few weeks and a year, as indefinitely blocking an IP address is discouraged.
Depending on the individual circumstances, including what actions were taken by the illegitimate alternate accounts and whether or not it is a first offense, Wikidata administrators can choose to warn a sockmaster (operator of illegitimate accounts), block the main account for a defined period of time, or block the main account indefinitely, in addition to the indefinite blocks of the alternate accounts.
...on the Overview section
[edit]- I Support this description.--Jasper Deng (talk) 04:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- "Editors are expected to edit primarily from a single account" is a bit weird. I guess the intention is to emphasize "single" account, but it also implies that editors should edit from an account, as opposed to as an IP, which I'm not sure I support. Wikidata is a bit different from other WMF projects in that many people from various open database projects are also contributing, and may not be used to the custom of logging into to edit, or aren't bothered to login (this is an incident that I remember regarding accounts). Regardless, I think the overview as a whole is fine, just that one sentence bothered me. Legoktm (talk) 05:08, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support with the change suggested by Legoktm. John F. Lewis (talk) 07:15, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support --DangSunM (talk) 19:20, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Regards, — Moe Epsilon 06:04, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support suggested change by Legoktm. TCN7JM 02:08, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support again with the sentence Legoktm mentioned fixed. ·addshore· talk to me! 14:17, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support the above. Hazard-SJ ✈ 01:25, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Overview looks good. Ajraddatz (Talk) 20:07, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support – I don't see anything wrong with what it contains at the moment. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 22:55, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I disagree that all accounts must be declared, even if e. g. a former account has revealed personal information (like real name etc.) or an alternate account is used for preventing connection to a subject to which the user does not want to be connected in real life. The rest looks okay. Vogone talk 20:15, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I disagree. I had a bad experience with an enwiki user who created who used multiple accounts for "privacy" reasons. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 21:32, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm from a project where it is allowed to have such undeclared accounts and I do not remember any serious problems with it. Having such accounts does not mean you are allowed to misuse them in any way. Vogone talk 21:58, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I disagree. I had a bad experience with an enwiki user who created who used multiple accounts for "privacy" reasons. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 21:32, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support prevents arguing over whether undisclosed accounts are legitimate. --Rschen7754 20:37, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support with Legoktm's suggested fix to make clear editors who only edit logged out are not considered to be socking. Also, people should of course be able to register an account after editing logged out for a while, but switching back and forth should not be supported. Superm401 - Talk 20:34, 29 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support -- Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 14:58, 5 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
...on the Legitimate uses of alternate accounts section
[edit]- I don't agree "Doppelgänger accounts", to make account just to prevent impersonation of main account. I don't see why this would be a good reason to make an alternative account, if it's not even allowable to make edits. I see that this rule is used on some Wikipedias' (Q7046007), but still I don't accept this one. --Stryn (talk) 04:29, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- No real point in 'Doppelgänger accounts' anyway, there are checks when users register to try to make sure a user account is not too similar / just has different case to already existing accounts. ·addshore· talk to me! 14:19, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, the AntiSpoof extension takes care of this, so it shouldn't be a problem. Hazard-SJ ✈ 01:34, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- AntiSpoof isn't perfect, so I don't think it hurts to allow this. Stryn, the purpose is to prevent someone from later registering the account and pretending to be you. Superm401 - Talk 20:38, 29 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support--Jasper Deng (talk) 04:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Doppelgänger accounts always seemed rather silly to me, but I really couldn't care less. What's the difference between a flooder and a bot? Other than that, seems fine. Legoktm (talk) 05:09, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- In my conception, flooders are using manual or semi-automated edits (where you're doing something rapidly and generating a lot of entries, but are still actively looking at what you're doing) while bots are for fully automatic and some semi-automatic tasks where the operator sets it up, clicks start, lets it run, and doesn't review each edit as they go. In other words, mass deletion of a run of 3,000 items using a semi-automated script would call for flooder, while mass creation of a run of 3,000 items using an automated program would call for a bot. Sven Manguard Wha? 05:23, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support covers the mains legitimate uses. John F. Lewis (talk) 07:15, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support with modification to include other accounts not used for bad things, so long as they are declared. I don't want to have a definitive list when special cases exist for everything. Ajraddatz (Talk) 14:09, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support--DangSunM (talk) 19:20, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Self-declared productive accounts are good too. Regards, — Moe Epsilon 06:06, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support TCN7JM 02:08, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support ·addshore· talk to me! 14:19, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, though the "doppelgänger accounts" section might not be understandable enough for the average new user, as there is no explanation as to what "similar" is (I'm not saying we should overkill). Hazard-SJ ✈ 01:34, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support – Due to the presence of "they [the account(s)] must prominently link to the main account on their userpages" in the overview, this seems fine to me. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 00:26, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Question: Is is alright to have a doppelganger account (JuniusThaddeus) with a username that doesn't resemble the username of my main account (Michaeldsuarez)? JuniusThaddeus is the username that I use on Encyclopedia Dramatica, and people created Joe Jobs accounts using that account name on places such as YouTube. I have that username "reserved" here in order to prevent the same thing from happening here. Is that alright under the proposed guidelines? --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 00:55, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Agreed. Vogone talk 20:18, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support It would be useful to mention
{{Doppelganger}}
. Superm401 - Talk 20:38, 29 June 2013 (UTC)[reply] - Support -- Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 14:58, 5 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
...on the Illegitimate uses of alternate accounts section
[edit]- Support but add that role accounts aren't permitted.--Jasper Deng (talk) 04:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- What is a "role account"? Legoktm (talk) 05:11, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I generally define it as a shared account. For example, it's the English Wikipedia's policy to not allow companies to create, say "Company abc" accounts. But perhaps this doesn't belong in a sockpuppetry policy. I really meant to not allow shared accounts in the sense that password sharing is forbidden, etc.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:14, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I think wmf:Terms of Use#5. Password Security covers that already... Legoktm (talk) 05:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I mean, sometimes a group of people may register with a common password, and technically the password is "secure". However, attribution rules still preclude multiple users on one account. Nevertheless, it's worth mentioning. No big deal.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:21, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Thought I got that in the introduction with "Editors are expected to edit primarily from a single account, used by a single person." but if you think we should, we can add it in as a bullet point. I don't really think that's socking as much as it is account sharing, which is a separate sin. Sven Manguard Wha? 05:26, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- This is explicitly allowed on Wikivoyage, so this should be made more explicit. --Rschen7754 07:12, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- So what about a bot that may be developed by more than one user who all have access to it? Hazard-SJ ✈ 01:59, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- This is explicitly allowed on Wikivoyage, so this should be made more explicit. --Rschen7754 07:12, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Thought I got that in the introduction with "Editors are expected to edit primarily from a single account, used by a single person." but if you think we should, we can add it in as a bullet point. I don't really think that's socking as much as it is account sharing, which is a separate sin. Sven Manguard Wha? 05:26, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I mean, sometimes a group of people may register with a common password, and technically the password is "secure". However, attribution rules still preclude multiple users on one account. Nevertheless, it's worth mentioning. No big deal.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:21, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I think wmf:Terms of Use#5. Password Security covers that already... Legoktm (talk) 05:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I generally define it as a shared account. For example, it's the English Wikipedia's policy to not allow companies to create, say "Company abc" accounts. But perhaps this doesn't belong in a sockpuppetry policy. I really meant to not allow shared accounts in the sense that password sharing is forbidden, etc.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:14, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- What is a "role account"? Legoktm (talk) 05:11, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- What is the point of "Accounts that do not serve a productive purpose"? If I create an "alt account" and publicly link it and w/e, but never use it, is that really an illegitimate use? I also made a few copyedits to clarify the intended meaning. Legoktm (talk) 05:11, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- It's to prevent people from just creating a bunch of accounts with silly usernames for the sake of having accounts with silly usernames, and other similar childish stuff. Sven Manguard Wha? 05:25, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- In the middle with this with the way thinks are defined however Support. John F. Lewis (talk) 07:15, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support however I would add that if you have multiple undeclared accounts, that really should be discouraged. Regards, — Moe Epsilon 06:09, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support and agree with Moe. TCN7JM 02:08, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support and also agree with Moe. If you have more than one account then the others should be easy to link to your main account! ·addshore· talk to me! 14:20, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, but what if "testing and training" accounts are legitimate uses, they should also me excluded from the "accounts that do not serve a productive purpose" point. Hazard-SJ ✈ 01:39, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support – Looks okay to me. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 00:40, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Agreed. Vogone talk 20:18, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support 'Multiple undeclared accounts' is already forbidden by the Overview, which says "they must prominently link to the main account on their userpages". Superm401 - Talk 20:42, 29 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support -- Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 14:58, 5 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
...on the Enforcement section
[edit]- Weak support Needs to be more clear on what may be grounds for sock blocks.--Jasper Deng (talk) 04:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support with the overall idea but as Jasper said. John F. Lewis (talk) 07:15, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak support as per Jasper--DangSunM (talk) 19:13, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Regards, — Moe Epsilon 06:10, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Fully agreed. There should always be case-by-case decisions. Vogone talk 20:22, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support -- Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 14:58, 5 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
...on Addendum 1
[edit]- Oppose because the definition of a "main account" is blurred when we also have flood accounts, and because public computer accounts may meet the definition of "main."--Jasper Deng (talk) 04:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't understand this section really. How can you have more than one "main" account? Legoktm (talk) 05:13, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Perhaps a different wording should be used. --Rschen7754 05:19, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright, so this is addressing people, like the person that came up in the IRC conversation today that led to this RfC, that use a dozen accounts make constructive contributions with all of them. It might be constructive, but it's still not above the board. If you can think of a better way to get at that (aside from the whole 'all alt accounts must link to the main account' catch-all) I'd be more than open to rewording the addendum. Sven Manguard Wha? 05:19, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I think we can reword it by, perhaps (just off the top of my head), "primary-use account", and explicitly define it. But I think it's a general rule that you should only use one account.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:27, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright, so this is addressing people, like the person that came up in the IRC conversation today that led to this RfC, that use a dozen accounts make constructive contributions with all of them. It might be constructive, but it's still not above the board. If you can think of a better way to get at that (aside from the whole 'all alt accounts must link to the main account' catch-all) I'd be more than open to rewording the addendum. Sven Manguard Wha? 05:19, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- For now, I Oppose but with a reword I will likely support. John F. Lewis (talk) 07:15, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose per above--DangSunM (talk) 19:19, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose unclear. Regards, — Moe Epsilon 06:10, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose due to lack of clarity. TCN7JM 14:40, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose as stated above, this is unclear. Hazard-SJ ✈ 01:43, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Nope. Vogone talk 20:22, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
...on Addendum 2
[edit]- Weak oppose - I don't think noting previous IPs should be a requirement, it should be obvious enough. I'd also like to see a prohibition against deliberately logging out to sock (i.e. you can't use IPs to sock if you have an account, while it currently implies that only if you only edit from IPs will using multiple IPs illegitimately be considered socking).--Jasper Deng (talk) 19:33, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not a requirement, it's strongly advised. As for the second point, that's addressed in "It should also be noted that simply logging out or otherwise using an IP address instead of an account to do any of these things will also be treated as an illegitimate use." in the illegitimate use section. Sven Manguard Wha? 19:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Hhm. I don't exactly like the recommendation, and otherwise think this is redundant with the part you mention in that comment. However, the prohibition of IPs from voting probably doesn't belong in this policy.--Jasper Deng (talk) 19:40, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not a requirement, it's strongly advised. As for the second point, that's addressed in "It should also be noted that simply logging out or otherwise using an IP address instead of an account to do any of these things will also be treated as an illegitimate use." in the illegitimate use section. Sven Manguard Wha? 19:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Neutral I have same opinion seven manguard. But, I'm not sure to sup or oppose--DangSunM (talk) 19:17, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak oppose as it should be common sense. IPs are a de facto alternate account and should fall under illegitimate uses of a second account as already specified. Just specify IPs count towards alternate accounts. Regards, — Moe Epsilon 06:15, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Neutral We shouldn't make this necessary (not everyone's IP address changes often, and if they change, it might not be far different from the former), though it might be useful in special cases (where a user's IP changes often and greatly, and this would only be useful in some cases). Also, as for voting, I don't think we should disallow anonymous votes if they have good reasoning that haven't been mentioned before to back it. Hazard-SJ ✈ 01:50, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose Per Moe, common sense and covered elsewhere. Ajraddatz (Talk)
- Oppose – I've seen anons treated poorly on other projects. An anon's opinion should be considered. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 22:58, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- However, anonymous users are nevertheless not permitted to !vote in any of our current processes, especially requests for permissions.--Jasper Deng (talk) 23:28, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Dunno what this has to do with sock puppets. We cannot forbid unregistered edits, anyway. For the rest; WD:UCS Vogone talk 20:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
...on Addendum 3
[edit]- Oppose unless it excepts bots with advanced permissions, in particular, adminbots.--Jasper Deng (talk) 19:33, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I am personally opposed to adminbots, so the thought would not have occoured to me. Have there been any adminbots that have gotten anywhere close to being approved? Sven Manguard Wha? 19:36, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Some of Legobot's and HaroldBot's requests have been in relation to admin bots. In my opinion this should be split off into a separate addendum so it can be discussed separately, as people might support this while oppose admin bots.--Jasper Deng (talk) 19:41, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I am personally opposed to adminbots, so the thought would not have occoured to me. Have there been any adminbots that have gotten anywhere close to being approved? Sven Manguard Wha? 19:36, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- What about property creator? --Rschen7754 20:26, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I can think of no reason why someone would need property creator on an alternate account. Sven Manguard Wha? 20:45, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Accounts used for security purposes on, say, public computers, especially for admins, may have a use for it.--Jasper Deng (talk) 20:49, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- User:PublicAmpersand already has it. --Rschen7754 21:39, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- And I don't think it should happen. If you're using an account with the express idea that it might be compromised and you need to limit the damage, loading the alt account up with permissions seems like a bad idea. Sven Manguard Wha? 03:59, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh. I said in the rights log that other admins should feel free to revert; DangSunM did the same when he gave his alt PTC rights. (I just noticed I haven't said the same on my userpage, but I'll do that right now.) My thinking was that if I were on a public computer and had a need to create a property, I didn't want something to hold me back, but, on the other hand, there's not much damage that can be done with a compromised property creator account. I mean... worst-case scenario someone creates a few vandalistic properties, right? Which is pretty unlikely as it is, if you consider that most compromised accounts make very juvenile edits, and Special:NewProperty isn't very prominently linked. Obviously I agree no public account should have anything that can do real damage (I once talked an en.wp admin into removing EFM from his alt), but I don't see PTC as such a right. If others disagree, though, I'll happily give it up. — PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 02:33, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- And I don't think it should happen. If you're using an account with the express idea that it might be compromised and you need to limit the damage, loading the alt account up with permissions seems like a bad idea. Sven Manguard Wha? 03:59, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- User:PublicAmpersand already has it. --Rschen7754 21:39, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Accounts used for security purposes on, say, public computers, especially for admins, may have a use for it.--Jasper Deng (talk) 20:49, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I can think of no reason why someone would need property creator on an alternate account. Sven Manguard Wha? 20:45, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose doesn't allow adminbots, and doesn't allow alternate accounts to handle property creation. --Rschen7754 05:22, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose per above--DangSunM (talk) 19:18, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Re-word it so that is specifies translation admin, admin, crat, oversight and checkuser as the advanced permissions not allowed on multiple accounts with the exception of approved adminbots or other possible legitimate uses. Other than that, advanced permissions should not be given multiple times to the same individual on undeclared accounts Regards, — Moe Epsilon 06:19, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Oppose - Addendum 4 is worded more clearly. TCN7JM 14:40, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong oppose Far too resrtictive as-is. Hazard-SJ ✈ 01:53, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Nope. Vogone talk 20:26, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
...on Addendum 4
[edit]- Support as an attempt to resolve the issues with addendum 3. --Rschen7754 06:51, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I can support this.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:01, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support - Worded better than Addendum 3. TCN7JM 14:40, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak support This is indeed a major improvement to addendum 3, though I'm not sure if it's sufficient. Hazard-SJ ✈ 01:57, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Support better wording that addendum 3. Regards, — Moe Epsilon 06:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Neutral I see myself being overruled here, but I dislike the idea of property creator being part of alternate accounts (also rollback, but there's no way I'm going to win that one), and I dislike the idea of adminbots in general. Sven Manguard Wha? 22:00, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't see the point here. According to the "overview" all alternate accounts must be declared anyway while running for adminship. So the community can decide itself on a case-by-case basis whether it supports multiple accounts with advanced permissions for one person or not. If a user doesn't declare them, that alone would already be against the policy. Vogone talk 20:31, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]