Modern Drummer 07 2023

On Review PDP Mapa Burl Drums and Gretsch Ridgeland Snares
THE WORLD’S #1 DRUM COMMUNITY SINCE 1977 JULY 2023
Jimmy
Chamberlin
Gets Deep
Vince Wilburn Jr.

And Miles Davis University
Jonathan “Ginger” Hamilton

With Sam Smith
A Different View with

John DeChristopher
Learn from:
Erskine, Rondinelli, Joseph, and Lesso
CELEBRATING 140 YEARS OF
THAT GREAT GRETSCH SOUND
Mark Guiliana
In 1883, Friedrich Gretsch opened a music

shop in Brooklyn and over the next 140 years,
Gretsch became an iconic brand of music.
To honor this anniversary, Gretsch is proud
to offer the Limited Edition Gretsch 140th
Anniversary Drum Kit.
Painstakingly constructed with over a century

of craft and all modern appointments, Gretsch
will be producing 140 total units (70 4-piece,
70 5-piece) of this kit to be remembered for
years to come.
gretschdrums.com
STAGE READY
WITH FULL SIZE SHELLS
AND NEW COLORS!
THE NEW
GEWA G9
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Only 10 kits remaining!
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CONTENTS
16 JIMMY CHAMBERLIN
The Why of Drumming: Jimmy discusses the
new Smashing Pumpkins record Atum as
he is tracking drums for their next record.
He also takes a close look at his musical
and drumming development, and how it
has influenced the most popular Smashing
Pumpkins recordings.
By Mark Griffith
28 JONATHAN “GINGER” HAMILTON 34 VINCE WILBURN JR.

The Thrill of Expression: Jonathan looks at his gospel Going to Miles Davis University: Vince Wilburn Jr. talks
drumming roots and how they have led him to his about the creation of the band M.E.B. (Miles Electric Band)
longstanding gig with Sam Smith. He also talks about the and their new record That You Dare Not To Forget. He also
modern drumming realities of playing huge venues on this details his drumming in Miles Davis’ band, and what is was
most recent Sam Smith tour. like to attend “Miles Davis University.”
By Paolo Ragusa By Mark Griffith
Volume 47 • Number 7
Cover photo by Max Fairclough
Contents photo by Corrine Luxon LESSONS
42 BASICS
The Bass Drum Owners Manual How to Deal with Nervousness
Applying the Moeller Technique
to the Bass Drum By Chris Lesso
By Michael Packer
44 ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC

Playing the Hi-hat
By Mike Packer
Presents:
46 ROCK PERSPECTIVES Exercises in

African-American Funk
Binary Beats Mangambe, Bikutsi, and the Shuffle
• Strengthen Your Groove
• Master the 3:4 Polyrhythm
By Bobby Rondinelli • Increase Rhythmic Awareness
by Jonathan Joseph
and Steve Rucker
52 FUNK FUNDAMENTALS
Bikutsi
By Jonathan Joseph
56 Style And Analysis

Bill Stewart’s Phrasing in Five
By Daniel Bedard
58 TEACHERS’ FORUM
Duet 6
By Ron Spagnardi
EQUIPMENT
Corrine Luxon
10 NEW AND NOTABLE

New gear from Sabian, Gretsch
Drums, and Latin Percussion.
12 PRODUCT CLOSE UP
Reviews of PDP Mapa Burl Set
and Gretsch Ridgeland Snares
DEPARTMENTS
4 EDITORS OVERVIEW 70 COLLECTORS CORNER
Why is One New Enough? Walter G. Howe’s 1930’s Leedy Black Onyx
By Mark Griffith Trap Set with Sentinel Silhouette Head
By Tim Northup
6 KIT OF THE MONTH
MD reader Bas Prins shares his beautiful 72 OUT NOW
Dutch Beauty. Modern Drummer details new recordings
that feature drummers: Dave Grohl, Michael
8 JAZZ INSIGHTS Carvin, Carmen Castaldi, Ches Smith, Mike
Keeping Score Clarke, Tony Allen, Marvin “Smitty” Smith
By Peter Erskine and Gene Jackson, Jeremy Dutton, and a
new book by David Garibaldi.
60 A DIFFERENT VIEW
John DeChristopher: A Life in the Drum 74 EYE CANDY
Business. By Mark Griffith Gil Moore’s Tama Imperialstar Triumph
tour kit.
AN EDITOR’S OVERVIEW
Why is One Never Enough? Founder Ronald Spagnardi 1943–2003

Co-Founder Isabel Spagnardi
Publisher/CEO David Frangioni
A s a self-confessed “snare drum

junkie,” I often wonder why owning
one snare drum is just never enough.
CFO Carolina Frangioni
CTO Jason Mehler
Senior Art Director Scott Bienstock
As a fan of 1920s Ludwig two-piece Content Director Mark Griffith
Nickel Over Brass (NOB), Black Beauty’s, Associate Editor Paolo Ragusa
and Slingerland Radio King’s, why can’t Contributing Editor & Photographer Alex Kluft
I just stop there? I’m NOT a collector. I Digital Marketing Manager Ricardo Rodriguez
understand and respect “collectors,” but Worldwide Education Dom Famularo
it’s just not me. I play and gig every one Live Fom My Drum Room Podcast John DeChristopher
of my snares, they are my tools of the Photography & Archivist Felipe Laverde
trade. Videographer Tyson Francion
If the Tama Bell Brass and my
Keplinger cast steel sound so good,
why do I love my Ludwig Hammered Bronze and Supraphonic so much?
If the crack of my Brady Jarrah and Sheoak snares are so perfect, why do I
also have my Yamaha Bamboo? I love the sound of solid shell snares, so that CEO President Publisher
means I love my old Radio King’s, right? Of course! But why do I cherish my Sajan Shiva Rick Catinella Alex Young
Longo Walnut and Cherry solid shells snares? Not to mention that old Noble
and Cooley that has been around the world with me a few times. But as THE MD PRO PANEL/ADVISORY BOARD: Chris Adler, Carmine Appice, Kenny
much as I love those wonderful solid shells, my Eames 24 ply Master Model Aronoff, Bill Bachman, Eddie Bayers, Gregg Bissonette, Jason Bittner, Bill
Bruford, Will Calhoun,Terri Lyne Carrington, Matt Chamberlain, Peter Erskine,
and 8” Naturaltone that Joe MacSweeney made sound sooo good. And if
Dom Famularo, Daniel Glass, Alex González, Danny Gottlieb, Benny Greb, Matt
the 8” Naturaltone sounds so great then why have my 8” Yamaha Recording Halpern, Horacio Hernandez, Gerald Heyward, Taku Hirano, Jonathan Joseph,
Custom, they are just about the same drum, right? Jim Keltner, Paul Leim, Peter Magadini, Pat Mastelotto, Rod Morgenstein,
Yet, it’s not just wood and metal. The Remo Gold Grown snare is a great Andy Newmark, Carl Palmer, Stephen Perkins, Dafnis Prieto, Rich Redmond,
snare for jazz and brushes, and my Tempus 8” fiberglass drum is a real all- Brian Reitzell, Jim Riley, Bobby Rondinelli, Antonio Sánchez, Cindy Blackman
Santana, Chad Smith, Steve Smith, Todd Sucherman, Billy Ward, Kenny
around workhorse. Speaking of workhorses, my 6.5” 1980s Yamaha Brass and Washington, Dave Weckl, Paul Wertico, Dennis Wolfe
my Slingerland Chrome Over Brass 6.5” Sound King (with a replaced strainer)
fit that definition perfectly. But it’s not just about deeper snares. After I CONTRIBUTING WRITERS: Donn Bennett, Clayton Cameron, Bob Campbell,
recorded with a 4” Arnie Lang snare and saw pictures of Roy Haynes playing Peter Erskine, Dom Famularo, Bob Girouard, Mike Haid, Brian Hill, Daru Jones,
Nic Kubes, Chris Lesso, Peter Magadini, James Petercsak, Tony Verderosa
a 4” Ludwig Downbeat back in the day, I absolutely fell in love with 4” deep
snares. Maybe that’s why I have six of them now. MODERN DRUMMER magazine (ISSN SUBSCRIPTION CORRESPONDENCE:
A few years back I saw Dennis Chambers playing a Pearl Symphonic Snare 0194-4533) is published digitally Modern Drummer, 1279 W. Palmetto
with a triple strainer it sounded amazing and unique. I called Dennis and monthly and print bi-monthly by Park Rd, PO Box 276064, Boca Raton,
we talked about how much he loved that drum, so I grabbed one, and it is a MODERN DRUMMER Publications, FL 33427. Change of address: Allow
Inc., 1279 W. Palmetto Park Rd PO at least six weeks for a change. Please
GREAT drum set snare. Now Dennis’ killer new Pearl signature snare has that Box 276064 Boca Raton, FL 33427. provide both old and new address and
same strainer. And speaking of orchestral snares my Yamaha 5.5” Concert PERIODICALS MAIL POSTAGE paid at send to [email protected]
Copper with their concert strainer is one of my favorite recording drums. Boca Raton, FL 33427 and at additional
But it’s just not the expensive ones. After seeing Jim Keltner set up an mailing offices. Copyright 2023 by POSTMASTER: Send address changes
MODERN DRUMMER Publications, to Modern Drummer, 1279 W. Palmetto
entire kit of snares back in the 90s with Bill Frisell, I obsessed over finding a Inc. All rights reserved. Reproduction Park Rd PO Box 276064 Boca Raton,
Yamaha Stage Custom mountable 10 and 12 in Black, they were only 100 without the permission of the publisher FL 33427.
bucks each, but when I found them, you would have thought that I just is prohibited.
found an original Slingerland Black Beauty (no, I don’t have one of those.) And Canadian Publications Mail Agreement
speaking of inexpensive drums— why is the Ludwig Acrolite such a good EDITORIAL/ADVERTISING/ No. 41480017 Return undeliverable
ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: Canadian addresses to: PO Box 875, Stn
sounding snare. Wasn’t it originally a “student” model snare? MODERN DRUMMER Publications, 1279 A, Windsor ON N9A 6P2
Most recently, I have discovered the unique sound of 15” snares. It’s no W. Palmetto Park Rd PO Box 276064
surprise, I now have three. See what I mean, why is one never enough??? I Boca Raton, FL 33427. MEMBER: National Association of Music
guess it comes down to many different colors on the palette. That’s my story, Email: [email protected]. Merchants, Percussive Arts Society
and I’m sticking to it. At least snares don’t take up as much space as drum
MODERN DRUMMER welcomes
sets... or cars. manuscripts and photos but cannot
assume responsibility for them.
Listen and Learn!
Mark Griffith Subscribe today at moderndrummer.com/subscribe
Editor-In-Chief, Director of Content MODERN DRUMMER ONLINE: www.moderndrummer.com
Music Key
@ModernDrummer modern_drummer @modern_drummer
4 Modern Drummer July 2023

KIT OF THE MONTH
A Dutch Beauty
D utch drummer Bas Prins

has invited Modern
Drummer and our readers
to enjoy some pictures of
his beautiful Ayotte kit. Bas
uses a special “one of a kind”
10” Keplinger snare. with
his kit. Also pictured are an
assortment of custom and
prototype Sabian Cymbals
from his large collection of
limited edition and vintage
Sabian bronze. Bedankt Bas!

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JAZZ INSIGHTS
Keeping Score
By Peter Erskine
M usic should not be a contest. The great Hungarian

composer Bela Bartok is quoted as having said that
competitions should be for horses, not musicians. He refused
a numerical grid used for computing and keeping score of how
each band and its players fared) that I penned one morning
while sitting in judgment at a jazz festival. Reading through
to sit on competition juries because he didn’t want the these notes to myself, I’m struck by how familiar these themes
decisions on his conscience. Jazz educators are generally not feel to me. The score card is as much (or more) about the scorer
so privileged, and there are times when we are called upon than the young musicians … or is it?
to render judgement upon musicians who are playing on a I should mention that, during my teenaged years as a student
bandstand. My conscience has bothered me from time to time at the Interlochen Arts Academy, our band director Dave
after playing judge, jury, and kingmaker during a music festival. Sporny refused to enter the school’s big band (known then as
Those good ol’ “win-win” moments feel out of reach when the “Studio Orchestra”) into any competitions. We would travel
writing down such observations like: and appear as guests, but not subject ourselves to either the
temptation of playing to score or the whim of some music
Impossible to understand / appreciate group dynamic because the educator. Looking back, I’m glad.
bass is too loud. Meanwhile, here I am sitting in a hot seat that was not of my
Overall sum seems less than the parts. planning or doing. Let’s look at each point I penned with some
I’m not a huge djembe fan. analysis.
Drummer’s brushes on cymbals ineffectual. 1. Impossible to understand / appreciate group dynamic
Annoying harmonic form. because the bass is too loud.
A lot of “Mickey Mousing” going on. It only takes ONE instrument being too loud to in the mix to
Drummer’s x-stick sound is annoying (the DRUMMER is effectively destroy a band’s sound. Most of the time, however,
annoying…) this is not the band’s fault! A reminder to always be on-
The whole hipster vibe is getting boring. guard for over-zealous purveyors of a house PA mix with a
Tenor sax sounds like a tenor kazoo. subwoofer. Basically, it comes down to this: if it’s jazz, unplug
“Summertime” in whatever time signature … WHY? the subwoofer. In addition, no instrument should sound
NO SWING in 4/4 (all day). unnaturally loud.
Too many rimshot accents (but the first drummer to smile). 2. Overall sum seems less than the parts.
The odd time signs all add up to a big nothing. The very meaning of a band should be that the sum or
All rimshots from drummer – BOO!!! everyone’s playing of the music amounts to something greater
A sameness weighs down the overall effect. than the added-up qualities or quantities of the musicians. That
Needs to breathe more. extra something is the very magic and essence of musicmaking.
3. I’m not a huge djembe fan.
That’s the summation of my notes for six bands (in addition to Self-explanatory.

4. Drummer’s brushes on cymbals ineffectual. written.” At the time it was awful, but five years later, I’m like, “Boy,
Brushes on cymbals are a waste of time most of the time. I’m glad he made me do that.”
5. Annoying harmonic form.
I don’t like it when a song’s form comes to its end, but that end So … don’t listen to me, listen to Art Blakey!
is pretty much the same as the song’s beginning, it’s static and
puts me in a musical groundhog day state of being. 11. NO SWING in 4/4 (all day).
6. A lot of “Mickey Mousing” going on. Come on, gang. SOMETHING has to swing if this is a jazz festival!
By this, I mean that the musicians are quoting one player’s ideas 12. Too many rimshot accents (but the first drummer to
back to them as opposed to either keeping the groove going smile).
or providing intelligent counterpoint. There’s too much noise Okay, so the drummer was smiling, and I liked that. But what
in life, music can and should be some form of a cathedral or I did NOT like were all those head/rim combinations. Accents
temple (no matter the setting); set your sights high and aim for lose their meaning, plus the wide frequency response of
the best choices. How? By LISTENING and by learning to trust the rim/head whack has an unfair advantage in the decibel
the music, the other musicians and yourself. department over most anything else happening on the
7. Drummer’s cross-stick sound is annoying (the DRUMMER bandstand.
is annoying…) 13. The odd time signs all add up to a big nothing.
Drummer was not listening to the sound he was creating. The This observation feels redundant. Don’t blame me.
cross-stick volume and tone were disagreeable to my ears and, 14. All rimshots from drummer – BOO!!!
so, I’m trusting that I was not the only one. My comment about Here we go again.
the DRUMMER annoying me is that his willful indifference to 15. A sameness weighs down the overall effect.
the actual SOUND is a pet-peeve, if not downright illegal. Everything new is old again. Be clever in your use of dynamics,
8. The whole hipster vibe is getting boring. crystal clear when providing rhythmic information, and spend
Head-bobbing. Knit hat-wearing. Yawn. more time listening to old jazz recordings. I promise that you’ll
9. Tenor sax sounds like a tenor kazoo. be astonished and delighted by what you hear.
Good tone is important. There’s more to making music (being 16. Needs to breathe more.
musical) than pushing A wind player or a
down keys or blowing air vocalist HAS to take a
into a horn. breath when they’re
10. “Summertime” playing, and this
in whatever time automatically creates a
signature … WHY? space. Rhythm section
Again, this ought to players, by and large,
be self-explanatory. are not affected this
Here’s a handy little way but we’d do well to
test: I ask myself, “would treat our instruments as
anyone want to listen if they were living and
to this more than breathing partners of
once? “If the answer is ours. Breathing demands
“no,” then re-aim your that space be observed;
esthetic sights. I submit not only observed but
that there’s no good held sacred. “Air” is
reason to play George essential to life itself, so
Gershwin’s “Summertime” don’t be shy about using
in seven … simply it in your music.
none. This thought is
better expressed, however, by saxophonist, educator and jazz When the four judges convened, it turned out that we had
commentator non pareil Branford Marsalis, quoted here from a all privately chosen the same band to be the winner, and so the
short piece he contributed to Jazz Times magazine concerning “win-win” felt better than it might otherwise have been. I did
the late great Art Blakey (with whom he began his professional my best to be gracious to all of the musicians who braved that
career and toured with in 1982-3). stage so early in the day. Despite my judgmental misgivings,
I can honestly report that their musicianship made my day
Art told me I had to play a ballad. I didn’t know how to play better. Seems like the sum WAS greater than the parts. I guess
ballads. So I did what young people always do: started changing the lesson here is that we may listen critically, but let’s not be so
all the chords so I could sound less sad. So he walks by and goes, darned critical of ourselves or others.
“What the hell is that?” I said, “Man, I don’t wanna do this crap!
You’re making me do it, I’m just trying to make it hip.” He said, “This
song is written by George Gershwin. George Gershwin has written
an opera; he has written symphonic pieces; he wrote some of the
greatest pop songs in the history of American pop music; he does Check out Peter’s drummer profile page,
not need your sorry ass to make him hip. You will play the song as and get a copy of his Legends book at
moderndrummer.com
Modern Drummer July 2023 9
Sabian Re-Introduces 22” HH Todd Sucherman Sessions Ride
SABIAN is proud to announce the release of the 22” HH Todd
Sucherman Sessions Ride cymbal. Normally Limited Editions
are just that….limited! Well, in the case of the 22” HH Sessions
Ride, they’ve just “Unlimited” it! This cymbal, which was a
collaboration with Todd Sucherman, was first introduced as a
Limited Edition in 2019 and literally sold out in days. However,
it didn’t stop there, as the demand for this amazing cymbal
has been high since then. Even Todd noticed that saying, “In
my touring with Styx and talking with drummers from all over
the world, I’m frequently asked about this cymbal and if there
is any way they can get their hands on one. Until now, I’ve had
to say no. I’m so pleased that SABIAN has made the decision
to bring this cymbal back and make it part of their ongoing
product offering.” While this is exactly the same cymbal as
the one introduced in 2019, it does have a slightly different
logo treatment, and is not numbered nor does it come with a
signed certificate.
The 22 HH Sessions ride is fully hand hammered, lathed, and
polished, then a second layer of hand hammering is applied
to build in more control. The combination of articulation and
spread produced by the extra hammering and coarser HH style
lathing makes the 22” HH Sessions ride an amazing instrument
for both the studio and stage. Its stunning appearance is
definitely a bonus. We’re thrilled to welcome this cymbal to
our 2023 product offering. sabian.com
Gretsch Drums Premiere The Round Badge Stories New Documentary

A Celebration of ‘That Great Gretsch Shot on location in high definition,
Sound’ the film will see Gretsch drummers
Gretsch Drums are proud to premiere Cindy Blackman Santana talking at
The Round Badge Stories, a new the Santana studios in Las Vegas,
documentary exploring the heritage, Steve Ferrone filmed at the Tom
uniqueness and mystique of ‘That Petty’s Heartbreakers clubhouse in
Great Gretsch Sound.’ Watch the video Los Angeles, Ash Soan recorded at his
at gretschdrums.com/the-round- Windmill Studios in Norfolk (UK) and
badge-stories. Royal Blood’s Ben Thatcher videoed
Produced as part of the 140th at the bands studio in Brighton (UK).
anniversary celebrations of Gretsch Other artists and interviewees featured
drums, this new investigative include Andrew Marshall (Billie Eilish),
documentary features original and Mark Guiliana (St Vincent), Keith Carlock
exclusive new footage from around (Steely Dan), Terence Clark (Keith Urban)
the world. The Round Badge Stories and Don McAuley (Charlie Watts drum
was premiered at the Gretsch Night in Tech).
New York City concert at The Cutting For more information about the
Room club. Gretsch 140th Anniversary and to
Narrated by the legendary Vinnie see the new documentary The Round
Colaiuta (Sting, Frank Zappa, Jeff Badge Stories visit gretschdrums.
Beck) the 42 minute documentary com/the-round-badge-stories or
will explore the mystery of ‘That Great check the Gretsch social media.
Gretsch Sound’ through interviews #GretschDrums140
with over fifteen top Gretsch
ambassadors and key industry figures
including Fred and Dinah Gretsch.

Latin Percussion Introduces New Rhythm Rods andSingle Brass Timbales
New synthetic and natural Rhythm Rods provide a softer attack closer to the brush end of the sound
Latin Percussion (LP) is proud to launch its new range of spectrum making their warm sound ideal for small room
synthetic and natural Rhythm Rods. The new rods, hybrids of acoustic performances. When the O ring is adjusted to make
regular sticks and brushes, offer drummers and percussionists the spread tighter, the articulation increases, and rods begin to
greater versatility and a wider sonic range when playing. behave more like sticks. The denser strike of the tighter spread
The new synthetic rods are made by binding many thin, gives a fat, rich sound when recording. To find out more about
high-grade polymer shafts together. All feature a comfortable, the limited-edition LP Rhythm Rods, plus all the other Latin
non-slip rubber grip, an adjustable sleeve, and O-Rings so users Percussion products, please go to https://www.lpmusic.com/.
can fine-tune their sonic palette by controlling the spread of the #wearerhythm
rods.
‘LP Your Kit’ With New Tonal Textures
Latin Percussion (LP) introduces single Brass Timbales, extending
the range of percussion instruments drummers can use to ‘LP
Your Kit’. The inspiring ‘LP Your Kit’ array of drum set friendly
percussion instruments offers drummers and percussionists the
ability to add a wide range of sounds, effects, and tonal textures
to their playing. All the instruments are kit ready and easily
mountable.
The new 6-½” Brass Timbales, fitted with chrome hardware,
come in two sizes, 13” (LP6513-B) and 14” (LP6514-B) and a
heavy-duty mount bracket. These new singles offer the same
features as LP’s Prestige Timbales including compact sizing and a
high-quality, patented top tuning system for rapid adjustments.
The drums are crafted with a hefty rim and wide rib placement
build to enhance rim shots and cascara. The substantial mount
bracket allows the Brass Timbales to be fitted to any 3/8” –
1/2”mounting arm. These new stylish add-on drums will bring
an authentic timbale sound to any rig that is a warm, bright
The LP9911 Lightweight Rhythm Rods (7/8” diameter) and

LP9912 Heavyweight Rhythm Rods (1-1/8” diameter) feature an
exclusive reinforced core to give them superior balance, stability,
and playability. The LP9913 -Synthetic Lightweight Adjustable
Core Rhythm Rods (7/8” diameter) and the LP9914 Synthetic
Heavyweight Adjustable Core Rhythm Rods (1-1/8” diameter)
have a solid core with a retractable tip. This provides stability
while allowing the user to set the perfect amount of articulation.
The LP9917 Natural Rhythm Rods (1-1/4” diameter) are 13”
long and are made from thin strips of organic material bound
Gabi King
together. This natural material delivers enhanced dynamic
control and rebound for drummers allowing users to customize
their tone. tone with a dry cascara. To find out more about the single Brass
The new range of LP Rhythm Rods offer drummers and Timbales, plus all the other Latin Percussion products, please go
percussionists a balance between sticks and brushes. They to lpmusic.com/ #wearerhythm
provide a wide range of creative textures: Wide, open rods

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
PDP Concept Series LTD Mapa Burl

4-Piece Shell Pack & Matching Snare Drum
A limited-edition gem, perfect for play and display
By Jason Mehler
T his year, Pacific Drums and Percussion

(PDP) introduced a stunning Mapa
Burl drum kit & matching snare drum.
What’s in the Box?
The 4-Piece shell pack comes with 8 x 10
and 9 x 12 rack toms, a 14 x 16 floor tom,
and a drum key. The matching 5.5” x 14”
snare drum ships in its own box, as it is
sold separately. As expected, cymbals,
These limited production drums have and an 18 x 22 kick drum. The four drums stands, pedals and drum throne are NOT
a look that stands out among the other are shipped with the bass drum and floor included, so keep that in mind.
PDP drum kit offerings. In our exclusive tom disassembled to allow them to fit
product close-up for this month, we’ll in a single box. Along with the drums Construction, Finish & Hardware
take these limited-edition drums for a (shells, rims, hoops & tuning rods) you The 7-ply shells are made from 100%
spin. will find Remo UC top and bottom heads, European maple and wrapped in an
and a pair of Bass Drum Muffling Pillows eye-catching Mapa Burl veneer with a

black burst lacquer coating. The antique drums. Playing the bass drum with the and medium to long sustain depending
bronze-finished hardware consists of supplied Remo UC heads and a simple on tuning. The note is well defined and
dual-turret lugs, DW’s suspended tom bedroom pillow produced an aggressive doesn’t get lost among the other drums.
mount system (STM) and True-Pitch punch with well-formed low end that was I found the toms to sound good with low
Tuning™ rods. The toms and snare feature satisfying from both behind and in front to medium tuning, although a change of
triple-flanged steel rims while the bass of the kit. heads would allow for even lower tuning,
drum uses wooden hoops finished in as the thin stock UC heads start to wobble
black lacquer. The snare drum is equipped Snare Drum and growl below a turn & a half of the
with DW’s MAG Throw-off™ system. The The snare drum is equipped with a Remo tension rods.
circular “PDP Limited” badge adorns each UC coated head. When struck it produces
drum in the set. a lively, bright sound that isn’t overly Floor Tom
“pingy”. The crack sound generated when Like the rest of the kit, the floor tom
First Impression playing rimshots is clear and full-bodied has an impressive stance with strong
I have to say that these drums look where all the snare drum’s components hardware. When struck, it produces a
spectacular in my opinion. They have a are present in the sound. I did notice that meaty low-end, with medium-sustain.
sort-of Steampunk vibe, which I love. As the triple-flanged hoops have a sharper Again, I think the floor tom would benefit
I was pulling them out of the box for this edge to them than I’m used to. The edge from a change of heads as the thinner UC
review, the “oohs & aahs” erupted behind likely has a positive effect on the rimshot heads slap back a little too much for my
me from a small crowd of on-lookers (my sound but might eat drum sticks faster taste. Having said that, a little muffling
kids). The wood finish really draws you than a flatter-edged hoop would. could calm it down a bit.
in. Each drum’s burl pattern is unique.
Aiming a light onto the drum’s surface
reveals all the shiny, marble waves and
dark knots that wood workers gawk over.
The black lacquer burst adds depth and
provides a nice gradient base under the
contrasting antique bronze hardware.
Though Mapa Burl is a more common
burl wood, a friend in the woodworking
industry was still impressed by the large,
beautiful sheet of Mapa Burl veneer used
for the 22” bass drum. The insides of
the drum shells and bearing edges are
cleanly sanded with no noticeable defects
present, although there was a slight bit
of saw dust leftover from manufacturing
that should be wiped clean before
assembling.
Assembly The maple snare drum delivers

When installing the heads on the drums, exceptional sound across a wide range In Conclusion
I was impressed by the hardware quality. of tunings, including low, medium, and For the price, PDP has outdone
The rims and tension rods feel “heavy- high. The 20 strand snare wires produce themselves with this Limited-Edition shell
duty”, as do the floor tom legs, rack tom a crisp articulate response at any volume. pack and snare drum. I’m not implying
mounts and bass drum spikes. One Buzz rolls are smooth like butter thanks that $2,298 (shell pack $1,999 + snare
minor thing that I’ve noticed is that the to the drum’s resonance, which vibrates $299) is cheap, but the style and specs are
True-Pitch Tuning™ rods have a slight enough to help mask inconsistencies on par with some pricier high-end drum
resistance (by design) when you turn and pulsing. The snare wire tension is kits. My wife wants to keep it in the living
them, which is great for preventing easily fine-tuned, and the MAG Throw- room as an art piece! All kidding aside,
back-out while playing, but also make the off™ makes disengaging the snare wires if these drums are in your price range
“finger-tight” tuning method obsolete a breeze. With the snare off, there is no and you are looking for a drum kit with
as you will need the drum key to screw snare buzz no matter how hard the drums captivating aesthetics that is versatile and
down the tuning rods to the point of are hit. I found it fun while playing the kit sounds great, I’d say the 2023 Limited
making contact with the washer and rim. to make sounds with the throw-off lever Edition Mapa Burl Shell Pack & Snare
by toggling the snare wires on and off. Drum is a strong option to consider. Find
Tuning and Playing: Bass Drum these drums at:
I chose to muffle the bass drum with a Rack Toms pacificdrums.com/drums/2023LTD
small bed pillow instead of the provided The rack toms have UC Clear Remo heads
muffles due to the adhesive Velcro strip on top and bottom. When struck, they
that I was not willing to attach to review are quick and punchy with a nice tone

PRODUCT CLOSE-UP
Gretsch USA Custom Ridgeland Snare Drums

That NEW Great Gretsch Sound
By Brian Hil
T he Gretsch badge says “Drum Makers Since 1883.” OK, that’s

something that gets my attention. They Started in Brooklyn
but have been making drums in Ridgeland, South Carolina
snares, Remo heads, and (of course) the traditional Gretsch
Round Badge surrounding the vent hole.
since the mid 1980’s and continue to make good on “That Great New Hybrid Shell and New Bearing Edge Designs
Gretsch Sound!” This makes the Gretsch Drum company one Here’s where the big differences start. Paul Cooper is the Master
of the longest running drum makers in history….and they’re Drum Builder for
made in America! Gretsch. Paul says this
To my pleasant surprise, I received two of the newly about these drums,
formulated USA Ridgeland Snare Drums on my front porch to “This is a drum I’ve
review in my favorite color, ROUND! These drums looked great been wanting to make
coming out of the box. I couldn’t wait to get these two down to for many years. I’m
the studio and dig into them. talking maybe 15 years.
Gretsch sent a 6.5 x 14 ten lug, and a 5 x 14 eight lug drums. By taking maple, gum,
Both drums are identical with the exception of shell depth and and poplar, it gave me
the number of lugs. Before I get into the new shell, let’s run the opening to make
down the nicely chrome plated hardware. an even thicker snare
shell than what we
Classic Hardware normally do. With the
The lugs were the familiar Gretsch lugs that I always referred to combination of those
as “Rocket” lugs because of their shape. Counter hoops were plies and that shell, I
4mm die-cast, top and bottom. These drums also came stock knew we’d have a killer-sounding snare drum. The fact that we
with the ever-popular Lightning Throw-Off, 20 strand wire were doing a hybrid shell also made me want to do an edge

that I’ve wanted to do. That (new edge) gives you the warmth sensitive. I found I could easily get loud when playing these
of the round-over edge, and you still get the attack of the snares, so I started to pull my velocity back and let the drums do
30-degree edge. Making all those components together, I think the work. The best part for me was the “presence” of these two
we’ve come out with a really great sounding snare drum.” drums, they are incredible instruments, and I can’t think of any
Gretsch is not giving up too much more additional application that they wouldn’t be great in.
information on this shell as it is indeed a proprietary secret, but I found some on-line pricing that put the 6.5” drum at around
I can tell you that the thickness is almost a half an inch thick! $1049.00 and the 5” drum at $719.00. The finishes are offered
Obviously, this shell needs no reinforcing rings. in Gretsch Nitron, Satin, or Gloss Lacquer. There is no doubt
in my mind that these
The Sound USA Ridgeland Custom
Now for the fun part, the Snare drums are seriously
sound. At first strike, I was high-grade percussion
blown away by the “presence” instruments. You won’t
of both of these drums! I was go wrong choosing one
really taken aback. They both of these. In fact, they’re a
sounded like great snare perfect matching set that
drums, and their sensitivity complement each other
was impressive. The harder perfectly!
I hit, the more these drums Paul Cooper adds,
gave back, with no distortion “Our crew comes to work
or unpleasant over-tones. No every day and builds these
matter where I took these beautiful drums, and this
drums from a tuning stand- drum really conveys what
point, I was happy. Obviously, we’re trying to do. The fact
the lower the tuning, the wider that it’s named the Ridgeland
the note. I also found a really Snare Drum- it’s really a
nice set of videos on-line that tribute to them, and I believe
display the tuning ranges these it’s part of the mojo you get
snares. with a Gretsch drum.”
The differences in these From what I can see,
two drums were somewhat these USA Custom Ridgeland
predictable. The 6.5” deep shell with ten lugs was a powerful Snare Drums make good on “That Great Gretsch Sound.” These
force and seriously controlled! It doesn’t bark, it bites with are drummer’s drums, born in the South and made to inspire.
incredible sound. The 5” shell with eight lugs, was super friendly Check ‘em out at Gretschdrums.com.
and brought a more open, vintage-like sound. It might well be
one of my favorite eight lug drums to date.
These snares are warm, earthy, open, powerful, and extremely

The Why of Drumming
By Mark Griffith
either Jimmy Chamberlin nor the Smashing

Pumpkins need an introduction. They are both
creative and intelligent entities with a limitless
scope, and the Pumpkins’ ambitious new release Atum,
proves this yet again. Jimmy’s creative enthusiasm for
all things drumming is a breath of fresh air, and his
commitment to the craft of drumming is unparalleled.
All there is left to say is listen and learn.
MD: The new Smashing Pumpkins record Atum is an intense musical experience. What
can you tell me about the inspiration and the inception of the record, both musically and
drumisticly?
JC: It’s a continuation of the story started in Mellon Collie and Machina. The number three
seems to be a recurring theme in the Pumpkins world. Point being, it’s always good to
have a destination when you start a project. Billy [Corgan] had written the back story
for this three-record opera before he even started writing the music. He read me the
story about this kind of dystopian earth with an orbiting prison around it where people
were kind of sentenced to this perpetual purgatory and solitude. As a drummer and
somebody who’s an accompanist, I create musical opportunities, support narrative, and
I support the composition. It’s a dream come true to have a story like this. In jazz, if you
know the lyrics to “Night and Day” it gives you the opportunity to make better musical
Alex Solca
and drumming choices, so it was exciting to have the narrative and backstory of Atum.
Max Fairclough
Musically, it’s similar to the ideology we used on the previous record Cyr, which was
that we wanted to make a Pumpkins record without using or leaning on the old tropes
that we leaned on in the past, heavy syncopated drums, big guitar solos, and those
types of things. We wanted to strip it down to the core of the narrative. Then, in an adult
way, without neutering ourselves, we could create something that’s both current and

composed, with a modern architecture, saw was the Oscar Peterson trio with only got five minutes to make five
that still sounds like us. I think Billy Ella Fitzgerald on vocals and Joe Pass minutes’ worth of music.
spent about nine months writing the playing guitar. I was 12 years old at But to your point, my sensibility, and my
outlines of the music. I went to his that point, and that’s when I decided desire to be supportive of the narrative
studio, and we recorded some obvious I wanted to play music for a living. I doesn’t change. I feel like both gigs are
drum loops that would go along with still get chills when I think about that the same. It’s not predicated on how
the music. He worked on the lyrics and experience. I feel more philosophically many drum fills I play or how many
the arrangements and then in January of connected to people like Paul Motian, choruses of a solo I take— it’s all really
2021, he sent me the three albums in Pro Thelonious Monk, Bill Evans, and Miles predicated on making good musical
Tools files. I spent the next two months Davis. Not in an architectural way, but in choices and making good choices that
in my studio writing drum parts. In the a philosophical way. The Pumpkins are are congruent. That’s where I point my
beginning I was sending files and asking not fans of repeating, we’d rather roll the laser 99% of the time. Every drummer
Billy what do you think of this? But after dice on something new, than make our gushes at the opportunity to play free
about four songs, we figured we had the second record all over again. and to play all over the bar. I’ve certainly
general vibe. When I do big projects like MD: I can hear your drumming had those opportunities. The Pumpkins
this, if I have the opportunity to show up supporting the massive plot line that and Billy have always been an incredible
with no notes and a real understanding Billy is providing compositionally, is that champion for my playing. They have
of the music, I like to do that. So I drilled sort of how you see it? really encouraged me to be myself. Once
down and I showed up at Blackbird in JC: Absolutely. I just did a jazz quartet Billy figured out that I was a Mahavishnu,
March of 2021 knowing all of the songs recording with Frank Catalano, Randy Return to Forever, Weather Report, Tony
and arrangements. We spent around 20 Ingram, and Julian Smith here in Williams Lifetime guy it really did change
days recording drum tracks. Working Chicago. As you know, in jazz when the way the band wrote music. We
with Billy is very inspiring because he you’re soloing, you’re composing in real started off being a two and four, jangly
just never stops working or challenging time under the gun, emoting in real pop, drum machine band. Then we went
himself as an artist, and like all great time on the bandstand and on stage, it’s on to become the band that recorded
artists, he raises the level of those a very pure form of art. People always Gish, which was very Tony Williams,
around him. ask me what’s the difference between Bobby Caldwell-Captain Beyond, Ian
In regard to my general take— I’m playing in a jazz quartet and playing Paice type of drumming.
a big jazz guy, my dad was a clarinet with the Pumpkins. In the Pumpkins we As a young man I wasn’t too
player, so I grew up on Benny Goodman could take a year to make five minutes’ interested in playing two and four. But as
and Krupa. The first concert I ever worth of music. In the quartet you’ve we get older, we start to understand that
congruency is more important than
articulating your drumming subplot
underneath someone else’s story. What
I look for is an understanding of the
song, a cogent understanding of the
emotional destination of the song,
an understanding of what the story
is trying to articulate, and how I can
create support underneath of that.
For me, it gets more difficult the less I
can play. My drumming has got to be
compelling enough to carry the story.
For us, the narrative reigns supreme.
When we were making Machina, we
talked a lot about Cole Porter, Rodgers
and Hart. We talked about songs like
“Night and Day” and “De-Lovely.” In
those songs when the lyrics would stop
that was the end of the bar, then the
next bar would start. We wondered,
why do we have to wait? If the story is
going to pause, obviously you pause.
But we had these songs that felt very
unwound, the last part of our writing
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process would be to (kind of ) screw in

the ends of the phrases and wind them
tight so there wasn’t there wasn’t a lot
of excess playing that was going to
deviate from the from the story. You can
hear that on songs like “Muzzle” and “I
of the Mourning.” If you listen to those
arrangements, they’re wound very tight.
There’s lots of bar cuts when the vocals
end. That was really all born of listening
to Cole Porter, Duke Ellington, and show
tune arrangements.
Billy and I both listen to a lot of music.
I just sent him a Bill Evans interview,
I’ve always been a huge Bill Evans fan.
The first record I heard was Symbiosis
with (drummer) Marty Morell and the
orchestra. Then I went back to Paul
Motian, Larry Bunker, and Joe LaBarbera.
I’ve listened to that stuff for hours and
hours, Bill’s music really tells you what
you need to know about how much is
enough. There are so many lessons to
be learned from listening to that stuff.
For instance, I never really understood
free jazz, as a drummer I tried to get
into it, but I never had a guiding light.
But through Bill Evans and knowing
about Paul Motian I watched the Keith
Jarrett, Charlie Haden, Paul Motian
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video from 1972, that’s when I got it.
Nobody could play like Paul Motian, I
remember reading an interview with
Paul and he talked about loving to
play with Bill Evans but hating to play
so quietly. Obviously, Motian’s calling
was somewhere else, and he went on
to change the face of how everybody it was their identity and their voice that JC: RIGHT! The differences between
listens to, plays, and interprets music. was so attractive to fans. I also realized Elvin, Philly, and Art’s ride cymbal beat
Bill Evans and Paul Motian have been, that when I listen to instrumentalists, the are remarkable! The spacing of the
and continue to be, a huge part of my identity is what is attractive to me. notes, it’s like it’s etched in stone. I have
musical education. MD: You want to hear their voice. talked to Erskine about this stuff. I take
MD: You mentioned Bobby Caldwell JC: Yes. To be identifiable within a lessons from drummer Steve Lyman. He
from the band Captain Beyond, no one context of self-expression in a way that studied with Ari Hoenig and Bill Stewart
EVER mentions him. allows one to be themselves. (another one of my all-time favorite
JC: My brother is a drummer. He turned MD: What other records really set you on drummers) Steve came over one day
me on to Captain Beyond. Caldwell’s your drumming path? and he ran through all the different ride
playing immediately spoke to me. That JC: Jeff Beck’s Blow by Blow with Richard cymbal patterns. He went from Philly Joe
remains some of my most referenced Bailey, and Jeff Beck’s Wired with Narada to Art Blakey to Roy Haynes, and many
rock music. If you listen to Gish, you’ll Michael Walden. Richard Bailey’s playing others. it was remarkable how different
hear pretty much every fill from the on Blow by Blow is where I learned to the patterns were.
songs on that first Captain Beyond play time with eighth notes on the hi-hat MD: What type of stuff are you studying
record. Caldwell, much like Mitch with my left foot. Those records were with Steve?
Mitchell, Michael Shrieve, and a few really all you needed to know about JC: Independence stuff, right now we
others brought a jazz sensibility to rock that type of playing. Then I found out are working on the first five exercises
music that made the drumming much about Tony through the second Lifetime in Stick Control and breaking them into
more interesting to me. band with Holdsworth. I did my reverse quarter note triplets and swung eighths
When I joined the Pumpkins, they engineering and went all the way back underneath the ride cymbal. I’ve been
were really into bands like Joy Division through his playing with Miles to Herbie working on that stuff for over a year.
and Love and Rockets. I had heard of Hancock’s “One Finger Snap.” Through When I knew I was going to play with
those bands, but that music didn’t Tony I got really into Elvin, Blakey, and Frank Catalano, I spent a good amount
have much to do with where I was as a Philly Joe. To a lot of people, jazz all of time on my right hand, not just the
drummer at the time. I’m a huge fan of sounds very similar. But when you listen speed, but what I was gonna say.
those bands now because I developed to those guys play and the way they MD: Your thumbprint.
a reverse understanding of what they articulate their right hand on the ride JC: Yup, like I said, my brother’s a
meant to Billy as a songwriter. I felt like cymbal you can hear that it’s a very drummer too, when he finally came to
it was incumbent upon me to go and personal statement. see me play with the quartet he said,
figure out what was compelling about MD: The ride cymbal is the jazz “Your right-hand sounds really good,
that music. As I got older, I realized that drummer’s thumbprint. how long how long you been working

on that?” I said, “Two years!” much he loved that record. Gish is one of from the Sugarcubes? He was working
MD: How did you digest and learn the the modern rock drumming touchstones. with Butch a lot back then and doing
music from three new records (Atum is a Talk to me about Gish and making that sessions in Chicago. I just interviewed him
three CD set) to play them live? Are you record. for MD, because (as it turns out) he made
playing all of the new music live? JC: That was just where I was as a a record with Peter Erskine.
JC: No. When we when we play live, we do drummer at the time. The band was JC: Siggi was such a good drummer, he
just an assortment of the entire timeline, playing a lot. We were playing every day, was fantastic. When I when I started to
we really look at live sets like we look at either rehearsing or playing gigs. None hear the type of music the Sugarcubes
albums. We try to look at them holistically of us had any money, we had a crappy were playing, a light bulb went off in
and we don’t really get caught up in rehearsal space, none of us were out on my head. Songs like “Birthday” and
like oh we don’t have a song from this the scene hanging out at bars. All we did those early Sugarcubes songs— The
album… We try to just paint a picture and was play. So when we showed up to do Sugarcubes and The Smiths had
try to create a narrative. We try to bring Gish, we did the drums in two days. Some allowed me to hear a different way to
people up, bring them down, take them of that stuff was actually just one take. conceptualize drums. Those parts were
up, take them over here, etc. Night to We were just greased up and ready to go! very articulate, very confident, and the
night things will change, Billy will stretch Butch loved that stuff. We showed up and drum parts were produced in a way that
out a solo, we do that solo on “Silverfuck” he was like whoa what’s going on here? a lot of bands weren’t producing drums.
where he and I solo kind of free in the These guys can really play, this is gonna Siggi is an incredible drummer, he had an
middle of it. Some nights that solo will be great! We had a great time; I consider incredible delicacy and incredible feels,
be you know three or four minutes long, Butch to be a family member. He’s a his stuff is really identifiable.
other nights we’ll compress it a little bit. great guy and he’s been a huge part of I have been a fan of Peter Erskine for
We leave room for the audience to go my development. Butch taught me to years. Today, I’m incredibly fortunate
with us. We try to take all that stuff into how to continue to be myself within an to call him a friend. I was such a huge
consideration when we’re developing architecture that had a chance to create Weather Report fan, I loved them early
sets. contemporary hits. Even with songs like on, especially the incarnation with Alex
MD: You have mentioned a few of your “Today” or “Cherub Rock” there’s a lot Acuna (those were the records I had at
older records, let’s run them down, and of crazy drumming going on and we the time). I remember the first time I got
give me some insight to each one? I had managed to make it sound like a pop an email from Peter; I think I showed it
a long talk with Butch Vig about Gish, song. That was really because of Butch’s to everybody I knew. For me, Grammy
and I always heard Taylor Hawkins talking tutelage. awards and that stuff was “cool,” and
about Gish, you probably know how MD: Did you ever cross paths with Siggi obviously an honor but that wasn’t the
Corrine Luxon
Corrine Luxon
biggest thing that ever happened to me. way. There were a lot of single stroke time talking about his polka background,
The biggest thing that ever happened rolls, a lot of flams, a lot of Tony-isms. and now you bring up your polka
to me was being on the cover of Modern As Billy became a different type of background…
Drummer and eventually getting to know songwriter, he started delivering songs JC: That doesn’t surprise me. I know John,
all the people I grew up reading about like “Cherub Rock” and “Mayonnaise,” so great drummer, great guy. On Siamese
and listening to. I met Roy Haynes and obviously whether you acknowledge it Dream, we were continuing to represent
all the guys that were with Yamaha back or not, you’re getting a different message ourselves albeit somewhat more subtly.
then: Dave Weckl, JR Robinson, Vinnie, and you’re hearing songs that require a It all became about the dynamics and
Steve Jordan. I just couldn’t believe this different type of drumming and a slightly motifs. We still did stuff like “Geek USA”
was my new drum universe! Like all augmented version of yourself. That’s which just cut me loose. Songs like
young drummers from that era, I sat on where Butch was really helpful. I was “Silverfuck” allowed me to stretch out
my bed and read those magazines over already a pretty dynamic player. Butch and write unconventional parts. That
and over again and looked at the pictures helped me focus on parts and signature beat, for instance, is a single stroke roll
and dreamt about “What if?” I feel like motifs as opposed to what I was doing between my left hand and my right foot,
that dreaming was a big part of my, and on Gish. which was inspired by some of the Alan
everyone else’s success. In regard to dynamics - When I was a Dawson stuff. But on songs like “Today”
MD: Between Gish and Siamese Dream teenager I played polkas, so I was used you’re not going to be playing a whole
did you intentionally reign in your to playing really quiet. I played on a lot of drums in the middle of that. The
drumming a bit? Your drumming seemed polka television show when I was 15 and song was already so developed, and the
to get more orchestral and organized a polka radio show when I was 16. You construction of the song is so intact that
on Siamese Dream. How did you evolve had to play super quiet when you played it didn’t really need a lot. Sometimes the
between those two records, and how did that polka beat. And the polka beat was first question I’ll ask Billy when he brings
you react to that music differently? basically just a really fast swing jazz beat. in a new song on acoustic guitar is, “Does
JC: Again, I just let the songs be my guide. I played the International Polka festival it even need drums?” I try not to have
When the music for Gish was created it with a guy named Ed Karosa who was an ego attached to this stuff because I
was really about the drums. The drums considered the “Prince of Polka.” When I feel like once you get into “it’s about me”
were creating the transitions, the drums played with him, his wife (Irene) would you stop being a musician and you start
were creating choruses, the syncopation come and really light you up if you played being something apart from the story.
between the guitar and the drums was too loud. You start being a protagonist as opposed
really the identifying principle of that MD: I’m laughing because I just to a participant. I learned that stuff from
record. That record was all about filling interviewed John Sparrow from the listening to Larry Bunker play with Bill
up space and in a very Bobby Caldwell Violent Femmes, and we spent a lot of Evans. Some of my favorite stuff with Bill

is the Larry Bunker stuff. Larry Bunker That’s also when (producer) Flood JC: Well, Billy’s the guy who worked in
was a great percussionist, but his came in and started producing the the record store early on in the band.
brushwork is next level. Talk about a band. When Billy started talking about He sat in this massive record store by
guy that had incredible sensitivity on using Flood on the record, the only himself all day long while three or four
the kit. That Larry Bunker, Chuck Israels, thing I knew about Flood was Depeche people would trickle in from time to
Bill Evans Trio is some of my favorite Mode, Nine Inch Nails and stuff that time. While he worked, he just listened
stuff, I listen to it all the time. The didn’t have a lot of drumming on it. and listened and listened! He knew
Trio 64 record is so good! For me, the Part of me was wondering what’s this who all the producers were, and he
challenge is to be a participant in the exercise going to be? Then here comes knew who was producing what. He
music without having an agenda other Flood and he just wanted to record the would ferret these guys out and figure
than to serve the music. band live. He said, “I want you guys to out who was going to be the best
MD: I interviewed Vinnie years ago, do what you do, we’re going to make choice for the songs that he had in
and he said that one of the hardest a record and encapsulate the energy his head, then he would run it by the
things to do was to tell an artist and a of the band live, we’re going to make band. Billy’s really good at visualizing
producer that he wasn’t hearing any this record a celebration of all the completion because (obviously) he
drums on a specific track. work you’ve done.” The gloves were has more information than any of us.
JC: Our FIRST job is to determine off at that point. I learned so much He has the finished product already in
whether a song needs our services on that record. Flood challenged me his head, so it makes sense for him to
or not. We’ve all had our toilets to be many more things than I was. I pick the producers. Billy said that when
worked on (or whatever) and we’ve would show up on some days and all he heard Butch’s bass drum sound at
hired the guy who comes in and fixes the cymbals would be gone from my Smart Studio on the Killdozer record,
something. Then we find out later drum kit. Flood would say let’s play this he knew that Butch would be right for
that it really didn’t need to be fixed. song with no cymbals because I wanna what we were doing and right for my
That’s a dishonorable thing. Being get down to what you like about what
dishonorable in the trades is one thing. you’re doing. There were times where
But as a musician we can’t afford to snare drums would be missing, all sorts
be dishonorable because it comes of stuff.
back to haunt us. As we mature as When we worked with him on
instrumentalists and in our supporting Machina, he would ask how many
roles, we’ll eventually go back and different ways we could play a song?
listen to that stuff and realize that We would play the same song as a
maybe we were out of bounds and slow blues, a three-two clave, and a
being selfish. samba. We stripped songs down until
MD: As you look back, how did your we got to like what it was that we
(or the band’s) approach changes wanted. He asked why a song had to
between Siamese Dream and Mellon have backbeats on two and four? Why
Collie? Compositionally they sound can’t it be a in 6/8? It was so nice to
similar, did you approach them both in have a producer give you a platform
the same way? to be a drummer and to really explore
JC: The difference was with Siamese time signatures, tempo, and different
Dream we had a finite number of meters. Those are the things that we
songs. We identified the parameters all think about, but we don’t generally
between “Geek USA” and “Luna” and talk about them with other musicians.
the songs where I played brush stuff. So to have Flood come in and say, “I
We identified that we were going to want to know what this song sounds
live in the middle of these two those like in your brain when you’re sitting
two brackets on Mellon Collie. Those at home drumming on a table. How
brackets were blown away by songs do we get that on this record? Those
like “Cupid de Locke” where I was questions could potentially make
playing a can of hairspray, an aspirin songs way better than they are, and a
bottle, and some rusty scissors. Then lot of times they did. On the Machina
there were songs like “Jellybelly” sessions there was a song called “Blue
which was an intense drum ride. I Skies Bring Tears” where we did many
would say it was a little easier on different permutations of the same
Mellon Collie because we knew we song. At one point Flood kept me up
were covered with songs like “Tonight, till 4:00 in the morning because he
Tonight,” “Bullet with Butterfly Wings,” wanted me to record it while I was
Corrine Luxon
and “Thirty-Three.” We were covered really tired.

because we knew we had six or seven MD: You have had the pleasure of
songs that could be big radio singles, working with some of modern rock’s
that left us a lot of latitude to go wide greatest producers, who picks the
on the other stuff. producer for each record?

type of drumming. two guitars bass and drums record. We song?
MD: Who produced Atum? wanted to go back and make a guitar JC: In the old days when we always
JC: Billy did. As the songwriter he makes record using the information that we had a band to work with, we would
the final call. Of course he leans on me have learned from the last two records. play a song every day until it felt right.
to create the drum sound but his is the Now that we know what the stripped- We would listen back and hear that
most complete vision of the song so it down version of the band sounds like, words were getting too bunched up, or
makes sense to allow him to guide the how can that inform the process if we go something isn’t articulating properly.
process. We all have our own studios back to the foundation. It’s been a lot Up until Cyr we never worked with click
now so we are all adept at recording. of fun and we have a great time in the tracks, we recorded drums straight to
These days we work almost exclusively studio. When Billy and I are in the studio tape with no click just live takes. It used
with Howard Willing who’s title is anything goes. We both have learned to drive me nuts because songs would
co-producer-engineer. Howard is very so much from Flood, Roy Thomas Baker, speed up and slow down and sometimes
instrumental, he has a very pop mindset and Butch Vig. We like to go all the way tempos would be all over the place, but
so he’s valuable in in terms of not letting for a song, then come in the next day Flood loved the energy and was more
us go too far off the deep end. He’s the and strip it all the way down, or even concerned with the performance than
voice of reason and the adult in the get rid of everything and start over. That the way something looked on a screen.
room. part of it is so fun for us, and we learned For tempos with us, it’s just a matter of
I actually just got done recording how to do that through working with all listening, and it becomes obvious within
all the drum tracks with him for the those great producers. two or three BPM. We record everything
next record, I was at Blackbird studios MD: You have said that you experiment to a click now, I love it. It’s so much easier
for the last nine days, we were writing with the time feels and tempos a lot and if it feels right, it feels right. Again,
and arranging all the music for the when you’re recording, how do you go we’re both big jazz guys so we’ve all
next record. The next one is more of a about finding the perfect tempo for a heard Bill Evans play “Nardis” at 80,000
different tempos, which is the best one? said that because you guys didn’t play We must start to let people off the hook
MD: How editable are you as a drummer it to a click, it might be tough. We put for being human. I think the more you
when you are recording in Pro Tools? up 10 takes of the song and they were get into quantization and reworking the
JC: Everything can be edited. But Corgan all within two seconds of each other human condition, (in whatever kind of
likes my swing, so he leaves it in there. in length. The files looked exactly the architecture you’re trying to rework,)
Obviously if we have something that’s same because the tempo was right. If the further away you get from being
got a sequencer in it, we’ll grid out the all the Pro Tools files look identical that’s a real human. Like I said before, you
drums, I try not to have an ego attached when you’re playing the song the way know a drum part is right when you’re
to this stuff, I’m not like oh my God don’t it should be played. People forget that supporting the narrative. Supporting
grid out my drums, I don’t really care. I you were able to edit without Pro Tools the narrative of life is about allowing
look at it like this way, if The Beatles had back in the day. I just know that when I mistakes to happen.
Pro Tools they would have used it. It’s walk down the street, I’m not quantized. For example, I live in the forest, and
just another tool, so I don’t care. On Cyr, I’m more into inconsistencies in playing I see trees that grow straight up and
Billy left my swinging pocket over the than I am into playing. It’s the mistakes then something gets in their way. So
sequenced stuff because he feels like my that define us. I want to hear more they start to grow sideways. Is that a
chug and the ebb and flow is part of the mistakes in music. mistake? No. There are still birds nesting
band. MD: The greatest Tony Williams quote in that tree, it still drops nuts on the
That said, the technology can ever was when he said to me, “I don’t like ground, and it’s still a beautiful creature.
sometimes drive us nuts, at our core we musicians who don’t make mistakes— But it had to adjust at some point, just
are analog guys. All of the older records they’re not trying hard enough.” like we all have to adjust to suit the
were straight to tape with no click. We JC: That’s true, you gotta be taking environment that’s been provided for us.
got good enough to where we could chances and making mistakes. Music I know it’s a deep conversation. But
edit between takes without a click. We shouldn’t be about fear and calculus, it when it comes to music and drums,
were working on the song “Stars” that should be about self-expression and the sometimes music dictates things that are
had a little drum solo in it. We liked the celebration of the inconsistencies of the uncomfortable for us. I try not to have
front half of one take and the back half human condition. We all have them, it’s any ego attached to those instances. The
of another take. So Billy says, “We’ll just what unites us. It’s what allows us to be universe has my back if I allow it. I’m 58
edit them together.” And the engineer human and be OK with being human. now, I’ve been playing since I was eight.
Max Fairclough

My relationship with my instrument player when she was about seven years when she played her record player, she
is the oldest intact relationship that old. She used to go down and pick five would sit on the bed and look at the
I have. My covenant with the drums records out of my collection just based cover and have this analog exchange.
is the barometer for everything that on the covers. You could walk by her When she dropped the needle on vinyl,
goes on in my life. My dedication to my room, and she’d be playing Future Shock she sat there and looked at the record
instrument is a reflecting pool of how by Curtis Mayfield, or Earth, Wind, & cover and read the liner notes for the
I feel about everything else in my life. millionth time.
That relationship comes first. Getting That’s kind of how I feel about the
past the ego. To me, being a drummer Drums are not amount of mind share that music of
is what you’re doing now. How are today has versus the amount of mind
you practicing? How are you moving
things forward? How are you learning
something that “you share that it had before. As recording
artists we’re all competing for the same
as a listener? How are you learning as
a player? How are you learning as a get.” You just work on bandwidth, but the experience, and
how we compose and record music
human being? Drums are not something has changed. We weren’t looking at our
that “you get.” You just work on it and
keep working. You never “get it.” You’re
it and keep working. cellphones between takes when we
recorded the classic Pumpkins records.
always practicing, you’re always trying to
be better. For me, drums are (very much)
You never “get it.” We weren’t reading social media feeds
on our breaks. We were talking about
a metaphor for life. music. Could those records be made
MD: I couldn’t agree more. Drums is today? Who knows, but I know that the
life, life is drums is more than just a Fire, Bowie, or Carole King. She liked amount of time that we spent thinking
metaphor for me. Carole King because she had the cat on about music was much greater.
JC: I’ll tell you a funny story. My 20-year- the piano. Later in life, when she got an MD: When I am playing, I always relate
old daughter is studying to be a iPhone, and listened to MP3’s on AirPods, the pacing of a tune to gears of a car
playwright in college. She is a great old that music became the soundtrack for (first gear, second gear…) How do you
soul, and very much a music fan. When some other digital experience she was and Billy conceptualize the idea of
she was little, we bought her a record having. But what was interesting was pacing a tune?
Jimmy Chamberlin’s 2023 Set-Up

Compiled by Vic Salazar
Drums: Remo Dave Weckl Active Snare Hit snare sides, Ebony Ambassadors
Yamaha Absolute Hybrid Dampening System 16. 20" Xist ION crash on tom resonant sides, Clear
Maple (except snares) custom 3. 11"/13"/15" Clap Stack 17. 26" Gong Ambassador with External Sub
airbrushed by Chicago-based 4. 12" Traditional Splash 18. 7" closed mini hi-hats Muff’l Bass Drum System and
visual artist Jason Brammer. 5. 20" Traditional Swish with 6 (mounted off 22" kick) Falam Slam Double Patch on 22"
A. 5.5x14 Dunnett Classic rivets comprised of Turk Splash (top) bass batter, Coated Powerstroke
Titanium snare in Raw finish 6. 8" Traditional Mini China and Turk Bell (bottom) 3 on 18" bass batter, Custom
w/ George Way Double Edge- stacked on 10" Traditional Trash Graphics Ambassadors on bass
Double Flange 2.3mm steel Hit Percussion: resonant sides.
hoops 7. 15" Traditional Paper-Thin aa. Roland SPD: ONE Electro Pad
B. 4x14 Ludwig Supralite Crash bb. Remo Spoxe Hi-Hats Hardware:
auxiliary snare 8. 18" Traditional Paper-Thin comprised of 13.5" over 11.5" All Yamaha except for Drum
C. 7x8 tom Crash cc. Roland SPD: ONE Kick Pad Workshop 9002 double pedals,
D. 12x14 tom 9. 10" Traditional Splash dd. Latin Percussion “Vic Salazar” two 9502LB remote cable hi-
D. 7x10 tom 10. 20" Epoch Crash (used as Signature Rock Cowbell hats, and 9212 closed hat.
E. 8x12 tom ride)
F. 15x16 floor tom 11. 14" 30th Anniversary Hi-Hats Sticks: Accessories:
G. 7x8 tom (reversed with top on bottom/ All Vic Firth including Modern Humes & Berg Enduro Pro Cases,
H. 16x18 floor tom bottom on top) Jazz MJC4 Maple Sticks, T1 Kelly SHU FLATZ Kick Drum Mic
I. 7x10 tom 12. 18" Xist ION Crash General Timpani Mallets, System, Remo Crown Control
J. 14×22 bass drum 13. 10" Xist Brilliant Mini China Heritage Brushes, Steve Smith Gels, Gorilla Snot Drumstick Grip
K. 14x18 bass drum (remote) stacked on 12" Traditional Trash Signature TW12 Birch Tala Enhancer, JH Audio Roxanne
Hit Wands. In-Ear Monitors, Shure Wireless
Cymbals: 14. 8" Traditional Bell over 20" Bodypack, RoboCup Drink
Istanbul Agop Xist Power China stacked on 22" Drumheads: Holder, and Tama Accessory
1. 14" Epoch Hi-Hats Traditional Trash Hit All Remo including Coated Tray.
2. 8" Traditional Splash (on 15. 12" Xist Brilliant Mini China Emperors on snare and tom
aux snare top, secured w/ stacked on 14" Traditional Trash batters, Ambassador Hazy on

JC: We approach it very similarly. We get even better, not by practicing more that are almost impossible to play, but
might think in terms of brightness and chops, but by just adjusting his musical it’s really fun music. We’re looking to play
darkness sometimes. I’m an amateur vantage point in a way that it’s so much some of that stuff. We’ve already done
race car driver so I think about gears a heavier. a fusion Brand X-esque record, and we
lot. Down shifting, up shifting, apexing, There is a lot of people out there who did the straight ahead record with Chris
those types of things. It’s just about are really advancing the instrument. Speed and Randy Ingram, now I want
the dynamic process and where we are Nate Wood is a good friend of mine and to do something that’s a little bit more
within the dynamic. Do we need the he’s really advancing the instrument, metal. I want to do that just to go out of
end of this song to lift? If we’re already but there are also guys that have been our wheelhouse and out of our comfort
up, how is that lifting mechanism going advancing forever like Dave. Terry Bozzio zone. We’re all gonna have to sweat a
to happen? We’re going to have to is another friend of mine who is always little bit.
downshift from 4th to 2nd gear at some advancing. I did a big clinic tour with MD: Maybe you make some really cool
point to slow the car down, brake for the Terry, Gregg Bissonette, Kenny Aronoff, mistakes.
corner and then gas it down the straight- and Thomas Lang. I was relatively green JC: I hope so.
away for the finish line. There are lots of at the time and I always felt like the odd MD: In the last few years it doesn’t look
metaphors. man out when it came to clinics, but like your Yamaha drums have changed
It’s all about dynamics. It’s similar one night Thomas Lang handed out much (aside from the cool artwork
to this conversation. Our conversation a piece of sheet music with a simple on them,) but your cymbal sound has
has had many ups and downs, our groove on it and we all played it. His changed. What can you tell me about
conversational flow has had many point was to listen to how different your new cymbals sound and your new
dynamics. You must determine what the everybody sounds, and realize that more relationship with Istanbul Agop?
road looks like, do I need to be in fifth than anything, that’s why we’re all here. JC: I struggled for a bit with what I was
gear the whole time, or do I need to be That’s the qualitative part of drumming, hearing in my head and what I was able
at a crawl most of the song. Every song, it’s our ability to be ourselves on our to replicate on my kit. I was a Zildjian
every conversation, every show— has a instrument that allows people to see the guy for many years and I loved the
Constantinople’s when they came out,
I heard the prototypes and got very
Music shouldn’t be about fear and calculus, excited about the potentiate of having
cymbals that were dark and Turkish
sounding. When the first Chick Corea
it should be about self-expression and the Trio record came out, I emailed Brian
Blade and asked him about his fantastic
celebration of the inconsistencies of the dark ride cymbal sound on that record.
That was the sound that I was hearing in
human condition. my head. He told me it was a 50s 24” K. I
could tell that my tastes were changing,
but I wasn’t able to find that sound. I
different dynamic. vulnerability and the playing. talked to Nate Wood, and he hooked me
MD: I didn’t know you raced cars too. If MD: Are there going to be more Jimmy up with Scott Liken from Istanbul Agop.
we put Simon Phillips, Dave Weckl, and Chamberlin Complex records? I was doing a Complex session and Nate
yourself on a track, who’s going to win? JC: Yes, I’ll be doing them for the rest dropped off his cymbals and I was like
JC: That’s a good question. I think of my life. I just talked to (bassist) Billy oh my God!!! The Istanbul Agop’s allowed
everyone wins on their home track. I’m Mohler, Frank and I are going to go out me to bring my baseline dynamic way
racing next month at a Road America to LA to do a gig. We’re going to write down, it allowed me to create a tapestry
event, I love it. It’s very meditative. some new music, but I think Alan Pasqua with the cymbals as the foundation of
Dave is a good example of somebody is going to be involved, so the gig will my sound. I’m back to using a 20” ride
who came out of the gate in fifth gear. be with Alan Pasqua, Frank Catalano, cymbal, I sneak some rivets in it every
We all used to do Yamaha Groove Night Billy Mohler, and we may bring Shane once in a while. The dark beauty of those
together at NAMM shows. We would all Endsley in to play some trumpet. But The cymbals and the quickness of them
play: Dave, Steve Jordan, Mickey Curry, Complex is still a living breathing thing, really spoke to me. I feel like I finally have
JR Robinson, Peter Erskine, Jabo and it’s just that everybody has kids now. It’s the sound that I’m hearing in my head,
Clyde, and many other greats. Dave was harder to get everybody together than Now I can crash on my ride, I can create
always mind blowing, but incredibly, his when we were all single and we could a washy undercurrent, or I can get a
playing in the last six or seven years has just get in the van and go play all the very good articulate feel with definition.
gone to completely another level. His time. It’s definitely evolving. It’s all there. One of the greatest things
playing now has an incredibly ferocious I think the next proper record we do that’s happened, is that those cymbals
pocket. He’s reinvented his posture and is going to be a kind of metal based. I’ve have allowed me to play quieter. I use
stance on the drums. IMO He’s coming been listening to this video game metal Vic Firth Modern Jazz MJ4 sticks which
from a new standpoint of sensitivity soundtrack called Guilty Gear that my are Maple, and they really allow the
and articulation, but that is combined daughter turned me on to. It’s written by darkness to come through because the
with the huge wallop of his groove. It’s this South African guy named Daisuke grain structure of the stick is not like
inspiring to see a guy who’s that good Ishiwatari, it has these incredible drums Hickory. It doesn’t create that kind of

ping. The wash those sticks create comes crazy that I was going to switch snare than the physical part of it. We all know
from the grain structure of the Maple. drums in the middle of a tour, but I’m the how and the what of drumming.
Now I hear the ping and the wash all at the drummer and if it sounds good to We figure it out, practice it, and put it
one time. Depending on my dynamic, I me, I’m gonna play it. One of the great in our repertoire. But we don’t talk a
can get more or less of each depending things about the current Pumpkins tour, lot about the why of drumming. The
on my stick angle. I’m a Jim Gordon is that all the amps are in ISO cabinets, understanding of why you’re playing.
fanatic, and I always thought the ride so the only “live” instrument on stage is It’s a deeper journey and rooted in your
sound on “Low Spark of High Heeled the drums. We can lean heavily on the own mysticism. If you’re looking for
Boys” was what a ride cymbal should overheads and basically mic it like a jazz somebody to tell you the answers, it’s no
sound like. When you hear Blakey or kit. I’m able to play like John Densmore further than your record player.
Elvin, they’ve always had the dark wash up there and it all still comes through. When people ask me what are the
going on and the articulation was on top It’s so fun! greatest moments in my drumming
of it. Then rock came in and everything
had to cut through, that drove me nuts.
These Istanbul Agop cymbals allow me
to be a jazz drummer in a rock context
There’s a billion different notes in a snare
every night.
MD: Are you a snare drum guy? drum, I never play the same note twice.
JC: Oh yeah. I have also started to use
Ronn Dunnett’s snare drums. I did my
own signature snare with Yamaha, but it
was more of a Black Beauty rip-off. When
Hagi and I made that drum, I actually
picked that shell out of a dumpster. I was
trying to get something thin that would
move like a Supraphonic or a Black
Beauty and allow me a different menu
of notes. I was looking for inconsistency,
but Yamaha (and Hagi) were really about
the opposite.
MD: Consistency.
JC: Yeah, but there’s a billion different
notes in a snare drum, I never play the
same note twice, it drives people nuts.
I play near the edge, I’m in the middle,
I’m on the rim. In the context of 12 bars,
I want to be able to play 12 different
sounds with a snare drum. I’m dragging
the stick across the drum, playing one
handed buzz rolls, just making people
crazy. But it’s part of my inner groove, it’s
the way the way I keep time.
MD: Engineers must hate you. Corrine Luxon
JC: Yeah, sometimes, but I have to be
able to sound like myself, or I’m doing
a different job. One that I never applied
for. Ronn’s snares were a game changer.
He’s making thin titanium shells and
the snare beds are a little bit deeper As we as we all get older, we get more career? They’re always expecting me to
to allow the wires to sit on the bottom in touch with why we’re doing what say playing at Madison Square Garden
head in a in a way that makes the drum we’re doing. I learned to play drums by or something. But I say all of the great
super buzzy and super articulate. It’s listening and slowing records down, moments happened in my practice
the perfect drum if you if you like an I listened and there was something space. They happened in the morning
articulate snare drum like the old Rogers emotionally compelling about what when I was figuring stuff out and
Dynasonic. Elvin was doing. I learned it because something clicked and became rooted.
MD: What size are you using? I wanted to say the same thing, and I Those are the high points. That is when
JC: I’m always a 5 1/2 x 14 traditionalist knew why I wanted to say it. There was we get closer to the “why.”
guy, but Ronn gave me a 6 ½ x 14 and something in the message that meant
I just used it on this new record. Ronn something to me. I would play things
came to a Pumpkins gig and gifted me that Tony was doing backwards because
Check out Jimmy’s
his prototype titanium snare drum, and I never saw Tony do it. I was after the drummer profile page,
I played it that night! He thought it was emotional content of those things rather at moderndrummer.com

The Thrill of Expression
By Paolo Ragusa
I t all started in a Southeast London church for

Jonathan “Ginger” Hamilton. As a pastor’s kid,
Jonathan grew up idolizing expressive gospel
drummers, developing his chops at a young
age, and working his way through the UK gospel
scene. Of course, it didn’t stop there for Jonathan
— having booked his first professional touring
gig straight out of school, Hamilton nabbed
tours and session work with numerous UK pop
artists, including Jessie J, Lianne La Havas, and
Westlife. Fast forward to 2023, when Jonathan has
just embarked on another extensive world tour
with Sam Smith. Early on in the tour, Hamilton
is connecting with Modern Drummer to discuss
his journey, the drummers that inspire him, Sam
Smith’s new live show, and how he takes care of
himself throughout such an extensive tour.

Madison Phipps

MD: Where did your journey with the I realized that I could make money doing come and just fallen into another thing.
drums begin? music, I knew what I wanted to do — I It’s been an amazing ride so far!
JGH: It all began from a very, very young didn’t look back from there. I just carried MD: This new Sam Smith tour is definitely
age. My parents told me that literally from on with local gospel artists in the UK. their biggest yet. You’ve played on
about two or three years old, I always At around the age of 17 or 18, I started multiple Sam Smith tours before the
gravitated towards rhythm and to the meeting church musicians who were also latest Gloria recording as well. What has
drums. I grew up in church, so music — working in the UK pop music industry. I the musical journey been like with Sam?
expressive music — and improvisation got my first opportunity to do an audition JGH: I came in on the second album
was a big part of my childhood and a at the age of 16 while I was still in school. cycle with Sam and have really seen the
big part of my life. My dad is a pastor. Naturally, I didn’t get the gig because I journey musically. I wouldn’t say it’s gone
He’s a bishop. So naturally, as a pastor’s was too young. full circle, but it’s heading more towards
kid, I was at church all the time. It was a I started to develop the appetite to how Sam started. When he came out
very heavy environment of music and want to do this professionally. I was 18 with “Latch,” it was more electronic, more
expression. That was my training ground, years old and just coming out of school. I upbeat, and more straight-ahead pop.
so to speak, starting from four years old auditioned with an artist called Vivi Brown So when I came in, it was more soulful
I’d be in church playing every week. and was told (again) that I was too young. and more organic. I was using bigger
My grandmother (God rest her soul) My brother was in the band, and he drums on my first setup, my toms went
had actually bought me my first kit when put a good word in when the drummer 12, 14, 16, 18. But this time, my drums are
I was young (about three years old.) She couldn’t make it. I was asked to fill in for smaller, I’ve added more electronics and
bought me one of those Mickey Mouse the summer, and I ended up staying on samples for a more direct, traditional pop
toy kits and I went through that in about that gig for about two years. That started sound.
six months. As my skills progressed, my my pop music journey. I’ve gone on to MD: Walk me through some of those
parents bought me a little red drum kit, work with Peter Andre, Jessie J, N-Dubz, electronic components on the kit and
miniature size. From then on, I just didn’t JLS, Westlife, Leona Lewis, and Lianne La how they’re sounding on the new tour.
look back. Havas. Most recently, I’ve been fortunate JGH: On this tour, we’ve gotten a lot more
I started catching attention from local enough to work with Sam Smith, which detailed in terms of electronics. We’re
praise and worship leaders at age 14. I got has been fantastic. Yeah, it’s literally been running the Roland TD 50 and running
my first opportunity for my first paid gig a God-ordained career, God has kind of a range of pads and triggers around the
from an artist called Noel Robinson. Once orchestrated it all for me — one thing has kit. I’m using six pads, I have my kick
David Phillips www.music-images.co.uk
drum triggered, all three of my snares
are triggered, my floor tom and my gong
floor tom triggered, and I have a separate
e-kick as well for the songs that just
require the electronic sound.
MD: As I can imagine, you and other pop
drummers are playing these electronic
beats a lot these days. Do you ever miss
being able to do a full song with no
triggers or samples like back in your
church days?
JGH: Sometimes I do, actually. Especially
when you’re playing with triggers, you
have to consider how the electronic
sound moves. If you’ve got a big, boomy
kick sound, you can’t do too much in
your feet. Or if you’ve got a fat snare
drum sound, there’s no use in doing 16th
notes because it’s just going to sound
weird in the mix. So you’ve got to really
concentrate when you’ve got these
sounds on top of your drums. If you’re
going to do fills — if you’re allowed to do
fills in the setup that you’re in — then the
chops that you do, you’ve got to think
about, and they have to fit the groove.
It’s a different mindset in terms of the
free-form style where there’s nothing
on my drums, I can do what I want, I
can add ghost notes and grace notes
and whatnot. There are just things you
can’t do when you’ve got triggers on the
drums. You just have to give it straight-
ahead, meat and potatoes.
MD: Of course, like many drummers with
backgrounds in gospel music, you still
On Sam’s tour, I’m definitely given freedom
find moments to add your flourishes.
When playing with Sam, do you still get to express myself and bring my own musical
that feeling of playing in church? Do you
bring a little bit of that worship sound to vocabulary to the table, so-to-speak.
your playing?
JGH: I mean, within reason. But yeah, on
Sam’s tour, I’m definitely given freedom to thing allowed in my house. So there was part of my early influences. Obviously,
express myself and bring my own musical a lot of gospel music, particularly the Dennis Chambers, Vinnie, Steve Gadd, I
vocabulary to the table, so-to-speak. New York gospel — it was a lot of Gerald started getting into them around 11 or
There are times where I can play out, Heyward, Jeff Leslie, and even Eddie 12. Then that I got more interested in the
especially on this tour and a lot more than Heyward, who doesn’t get mentioned exhibition style of drumming and drum
the last tour, which is great. But when it enough of my opinion. He was a heavy clinics, I was watching the Hudson Music
just calls for the parts, then I lock into the part of that early ‘90s New York gospel videos, and stuff like that. When Aaron
parts and find joy in just locking in and sound, especially playing on James Spears came onto the scene, that was
making sure everything’s nailed and as Hall’s CD when he was 11 or 12 at the it for me. The way he phrased his chops
tight as possible. time. When I was young, it inspired me at the time... it was just incredible. That
MD: Who are some of your drumming to reach for excellence. When I started blew my mind and literally made me
influences, especially when you were just really consciously playing at like five or even more obsessed with drums. Seeing
starting out? six, I knew that Eddie Heyward played him, and the way Brian Frasier-Moore, Lil’
JGH: That’s a good question, and it’s on that CD at 11 years old, so I could John Roberts, and Spanky were playing
something I’ve been thinking about do that in a few years. I also loved Tony gigs and bringing themselves into these
leading up to this interview. I really sat Royster Jr. when I was young, he was in mainstream gigs... it was definitely
down and thought about my musical his early teens too. Seeing those young inspiring.
journey and what has inspired me. drummers actually made me reach for Some of the UK drummers as well
Obviously, growing up in church and excellence a lot faster or try and reach for — Gerry Brown, Gareth Brown, Josh
being a pastor’s kid, gospel was the only excellence a lot faster. They were a heavy McKenzie... these guys were drummers

that I could see in the UK doing their
thing and really pushing to take pop It’s definitely an exciting time for UK
music to the next level in the UK as well.
There were also drummers that I grew musicians — to be able to showcase
up with as well — Dexter Hercules and
Nathaniel Fuller. We would push each
other. We got kicked out of buildings
to the rest of the world our way of
trying to set up drums and all the things
you would do as a teenager to try and playing and what we bring to the table,
play drums. Those two in particular, they
kept me on my toes when I was coming
up. Whenever I’m in the UK, I’ll call Dex,
our musical accent, and how we can
and that’s the first thing we do. We set up
drums, we talk, and we play, we hang out.
showcase it.
It’s still something we do now that we are
into our thirties.
now. There is there is an appetite for UK the table, our musical accent, and how we
MD: Are there any newer drummers that
music by everyone else in the world. It’s can showcase it.
are inspiring you today?
raised the standard of what everyone MD: Going back a bit to your background
JGH: Well today, with Instagram, you
else is putting out, which is great — it’s in both gospel and pop music, there’s
have access to so much and so many
given us more eyes on a worldwide scale, a fascinating intersection between
drummers, it’s amazing. There are great
like Sam is doing, like Adele was doing, the two — for many fans, massive pop
drummers doing pop gigs — Stix Taylor
like Ed Sheeran is doing. It’s definitely an shows become their church, and people
is killing it right now; I know he’s played
exciting time for UK musicians — to be congregate to worship their favorite
for Usher recently. Clemens Poindexter
able to showcase to the rest of the world artists. Do you feel that way at all when
with Khalid, he’s another one, and CJ
our way of playing and what we bring to you’re playing? Is it something that
Thompson has done Cardi B, Roddy Ricch,
inspires you?
and now Charlie Puth.
JGH: I’m definitely playing
Then there’s Mike Reid
while knowing that my
and Chris Johnson as

gift comes from God.
well. But also, seeing a
That’s a heavy part, if not
lot of remote recordings
the main source of my
and the way things
inspiration. That naturally
have changed in terms
comes out when I play.
of offering remote
For me, every playing
recordings, there are
experience is somewhat
drummers like Aaron
of a spiritual experience.
Sterling that are really
But I think we’re bringing
inspiring me at the
that into these arenas,
moment. Also, Ash Soan,
yes, you can bring that
who I know from the UK,
inspiration. Of course,
and Joe Clegg as well...
there are differences in
what they’re doing with
terms of being conscious
pedal boards, adding
that this is entertainment
effects and playing them
as well, and that you’re
live, that’s the stuff I’m
here to entertain the
getting really into now.
crowd. And you have to
MD: You come from
keep the crowd moving as
London — South London
the drummer, you have to
specifically — and there’s
keep their heads nodding.
a lot of incredible music
So that’s the focal point.
coming from the region
Literally, when I look out
right now. Where do
into the crowd and I see
you see yourself in that
heads nodding, then I
musical landscape, both
know I’m doing my job, I’m
as Sam Smith’s drummer
doing it well.
and independently?
MD: Any advice for
JGH: Yeah, I think with
younger drummers, or
music coming out of
drummers that are just
the UK, it’s exciting
starting out?
again with the age of
JGH: My advice is: don’t be
the internet. Music is so
afraid to learn everything.
accessible worldwide
Don’t be afraid to find

your own voice in terms of being

a drummer. Obviously, there are
lots of divisions and sub-divisions
within genres, see where you can
find freedom on the drums. In terms
of how you play, I think drumming
is limitless. In terms of learning,
you can never stop learning, you
can never master this instrument. It
gives you something different every
time you sit down. So, sit down a lot
and play your drums and let them
talk to you, let your drums inspire
you. You can figure things out and
find a voice that will literally change
the world on drums. When I play,
when I see how people react to my
playing, and how it could change
someone’s day; something that I
do on drums can literally change
the way someone feels. I can play a
drum beat and it can put a smile on
someone’s face... that is amazing to
me. Being able to do that on drums,
and I think for young drummers,
obviously, there’s an appetite for chops up and be able to do all that stuff. job, so just being able to switch off when
chops and all of that. Which is fine, I think But being able to play songs and play you can and take time for yourself really
that is great, and I still want to keep my them a high level is something that is matters. I like to stay prayed up and rest
still very, very, very important. as much as I can. I’m trying to treat my
Always remember, that song body more like an athlete. So that’s prep
In terms of learning, you can literally take you from

just being a good drummer
before the tour, working out before the
tour, trying to prep my body to handle
to being a great musician. It’s the load — there are a lot of rehearsals
can never stop learning, good for young drummers to
know that we are musicians
before the start of a tour.
Recovery and maintenance are
you can never master as well.
MD: Lastly, this is a really
important, especially with a lot of dates.
So, I’m making sure I’m icing my forearms
extensive world tour that after the shows, doing the necessary
this instrument. It gives you’ve just begun with Sam things to wind down, just creating a
Smith. On these big tours, how routine of relaxing and calming down
you something different do you maintain your sense
of peace and take care of
after the show... that can help with your
mental state as well. So yeah, there’re so
every time you sit down. yourself?
JGH: That’s a good question,
many things that you can do. Whatever
you like to do as a person, you can add
and it’s something that’s very that into your touring life. I like to play
So, sit down a lot and poignant, especially in this football, (soccer.) So I’m going to be doing
day and age with mental that on days off when I can, as safely as
play your drums and health being at the forefront
of everyone’s mind now, when
I can. So yeah, just working out again,
getting cardio, being outside, getting
let them talk to you, let it should have been obviously
years ago. This world can
some sun when you can and stuff like
that... it’s good to be as balanced as you
consume you, it’s very high can as well. Which is hard with traveling
your drums inspire you. stress and there’s a high level and being in certain cities for only a
of demand to be excellent couple of days, you find your bearings
You can figure things at all times, especially in pop
music. If there were 30 hours
and then you have to leave. But if you can
be as balanced as you can, it will help not
out and find a voice that in a day, every production

manager or Musical Director
in terms of not being so well on the road.
would use all 30, there’s

will literally change the never enough time in a day in
certain situations. It’s a high
Check out Jonathan’s
drummer profile page, at
world on drums. intensity, high stress-level moderndrummer.com

Vince Wilburn Jr. and M.E.B.
Going to Miles Davis University
By Mark Griffith
Richie Porter
F or everyone who might not know, Vince

Wilburn Jr. is Miles Davis’ nephew and he
recorded and toured with Miles for several
Recordings on the Miles Davis reissue series and
is one of the family members who manages the
Miles Davis estate. On top of all of that, Vince
years. He played drums on the recordings Man Wilburn Jr. is a wonderful drummer with a deep
with the Horn, You’re Under Arrest, the new box pocket and a very musical approach. At the time
set That’s What Happened 1982-1985, and the of this interview, Vince had just done a gig with
DVD Live in Montreal. Wilburn’s new recording M.E.B. at SF Jazz in honor of Miles Davis’ birthday.
Carly Hoskins
project is the band M.E.B. (Miles Electric Band) Vince was excited to talk about his new project,
and their new record is called That You Not Dare drumming, his musical life with “Uncle Miles,” and
To Forget. Wilburn also works with Sony Legacy graduating from “Miles Davis University.”

MD: I have an unrelated question to start. the record, That You Not Dare To Forget. Bitches Brew, but throughout the entire
Are you also related to (one time) Weather MD: She has a great voice, and that is a recording process I asked Lenny if this
Report drummer Ishmael Wilburn? beautiful poem. was how those sessions felt, because
VW: No, but people do ask that. VW: Rashae didn’t know about the he was a part of that record. When
MD: The new record is really cool and very relationship between Miles and Cicely we recorded this all the cats came in
diverse. I know the inspiration behind it, which is what the song was inspired by. and played the music with no egos,
(it’s in the title,) but what was the genesis So Lenny told her about their relationship everybody was just chill and beautiful, it
of this project? and Rashae put pen to paper and that’s was incredible.
VW: This came about from a Bitches Brew what she came up with. Then Stanley One thing I would like to mention is
celebration in 2010. We had the idea to Clarke came by and recorded his bass that I had dinner with some Japanese
put a band together to celebrate the track. friends last night, and one of the guys
anniversary of Bitches Brew. I called some I wasn’t around for the recording of cried listening to our new record. Uncle
of the other guys who had played with
Miles, or just have a strong admiration
and love for him, to get everything
started. First, I called Wallace Roney,
Darryl Jones and Robert Irving. I called
Munyungo Jackson, Deron Johnson,
Blackbird McKnight and Antoine Roney.
We all rehearsed a couple of times and
then did a gig at Sunset Junction in
Silver Lake, California. The nucleus of
that band was Darryl, Robert Irving, and
me. As we started touring, we would call
various trumpet players like Jeremy Pelt,
Nicholas Payton, and Etienne Charles.
We called it the Miles Electric Band.
We were interpreting the music of the
electric period of Miles in our own way.
We started to work on new material,
but some of the core members were
unavailable due to other projects.
One day Lenny White and I were
talking… he’s a forward thinker, he thinks
outside the box. I said Len we should
listen to some of The Chief’s (Miles Davis’) We had the idea to Miles has that effect on people and we’re
catalog and come up with a concept for
a record. Lenny and I looked at some put a band together proud of having our association and
relationship with Miles’ music. We just
to celebrate the
YouTube videos of the band and some wanted to put our own spin on it. That
other live videos. After a few days, he is the reason we decided to rename the
called me and sent me some tracks. group Miles Electric Band to M.E.B., to
Lenny is like a movie director; he always
sees how things are going to fit together.
anniversary of signify that we are creating our own
music, inspired by Miles but as more than
After he started sending these tracks, we
both decided who to choose for different Bitches Brew. I a tribute band.
MD: I got the Miles box set a while back
called some of the

tracks and started making calls. Included called The Bootleg Series Vol 7. That’s What
on two of the tracks were Miles’ original Happened 1982-1985, which has both
trumpet parts. One is featured on “Hail to you and Al Foster on it, and I read your
the Real Chief” which was the first single
and the other is on the song “Bitches
other guys who had liner notes. Unfortunately, I’m not sure
how many people are reading liner notes
are Back.” The title track of the record is
called “That You Not Dare To Forget,” it’s
played with Miles, or these days …
VW: I DO!!
a ballad and we wanted the legendary
Cicely Tyson (Miles’ ex-wife) to do a just have a strong MD: So do I.
VW: Back in the day, my friends and
admiration and
spoken word part. She loved the track, I would chip in the money and buy
but we couldn’t work out the logistics. an album, and we would listen to it
She unfortunately passed away. Lenny’s from start to finish while we read the
granddaughter Rashae Reeves is a poet
and a spoken word artist. She created the
love for him, to get liner notes. We wouldn’t skip around,
we would dissect it, talk about it, and
poem that she recited on the song. Her
words became the title of the song and everything started. educate ourselves. That’s a lost art.
MD: In the notes to that box set, you tell

a great story about you having a band in true. What it came down to is that Miles at the Village Vanguard, so I called Lenny
Chicago with Robert Irving and Felton wanted to get on the radio, we had some and suggested we run into to the city and
Crews, and Miles listening to you guys songs for him, and he had already been hear some music. Lenny said, “No man,
on the telephone and making musical (as you said) producing us. We recorded I’m going to get ready for tomorrow.”
suggestions and comments. Can you tell about 15 songs, and they used “Shout” Lesson learned, I got ready for tomorrow
us that story? and “Man with the Horn,” on the record. too. When we got to the session Lenny
VW: Bobby Irving, Randy Hall, Felton Then the band with Al Foster and Marcus said, “I’m gonna play this B section and
Crews, Glenn Burris and I would rehearse Miller did the rest of the record. you play the groove.“ He always thinks
in my mom’s basement. My mom, It was great to be around Miles. He outside the box. His drums were set up
Dorothy, was a schoolteacher, and Miles’ would change little things on the fly. next to my drums and it worked. It was
sister. My dad was a retired Captain in the He heard things differently. He would just like when Lenny did Bitches Brew
Army and taught ROTC. My band would just change a little bit here and a little with Jack DeJohnette and Don Alias.
rehearse five days a week as long as I bit there. It was genius. He would tell The relationship Lenny and I have is like
kept my grades up. We would we play on me to open the hi-hat a little. Gil Evans big brother and little brother. We talk on
the weekends and do all sorts of stuff. So was there too. Gil would hang out and the phone almost every day. When we
Uncle Miles would call and ask my mom just chill in the corner and then Miles recorded together, it was just perfect.
to take the phone down to the basement would go over and whisper things to Gil. MD: So many of the musicians that have
and he would listen to us rehearse. After They would bounce things off of each worked with Miles really do think outside
we would finish we would pass the phone other. It was heavy, I called it Miles Davis the box. Like you said about Lenny, they
around to each musician in the band. University. all seem to create music like they are
Miles would make musical suggestions. MD: The only thing I don’t like about your movie directors. It seems that he really
MD: It sounds like he was almost new record is that it’s too short. instilled that vision on his sidemen.
producing your band over the phone. VW: There’s more coming. We’ve got VW: Someone said our M.E.B. record is a
VW: This happened for about three weeks tunes that Darryl, Robert Irving, and I “great sonic movie,” and we agree. Lenny’s
straight, and in the fourth week he said, wrote, and more from the M.E.B. sessions. a big movie buff anyway, he and Mike
“Y’all want to make a record?” He flew us
to New York and we did the Miles Davis
record Man with the Horn, in 1979 and
80. We met Teo Macero, Stan Tonkel, and
Back in the day, my friends and I would chip
Dr. George Butler who was the executive
producer. We rehearsed with Uncle Miles in the money and buy an album, and we
would listen to it from start to finish while
at his brownstone, and we recorded at
CBS Studios. I still vividly remember it.
we read the liner notes.

MD: When you would pass the phone
around and he would critique you guys
and give you advice what would he tell
you? We all dream of getting advice and
critique from Miles Davis. We have enough music for two or three Clarke go to the movies together once a
VW: I wasn’t privy to what he told Felton more records done. week.
or Randy, but he would critique what he MD: Let’s go down a few tracks from the MD: On “Bitches are Back” you had rapper
would hear, we listened to his advice, and new record? What can you tell me about Nas and Ron Carter playing together.
we approached the music the next day “Hail to the Real Chief”? VW: Nas and I did a thing called Evolution
with his thoughts in mind. VW: “The Chief” was Uncle Miles’ of the Groove back in 2006 so we have a
MD: So his words can live forever, what nickname. At the time we recorded that, relationship. Nas’ father is trumpeter Olu
type of things did he tell you? there was another president in office, so Dara, so we had them on a sample from
VW: For me, it was always about the that’s why we called it “Hail to the Real an old track. When we recorded that
groove. He would send me the records he Chief.” We were in the studio just grooving Lenny asked me to go find a rapper for
loved. James Brown The Big Payback, Sly and Bernard Wright said, “I hear Marcus the verses. So I called my little brother
and the Family Stone In Time with Andy Miller on this tune.” So, we called Marcus Scud One out of Chicago. He said he
Newmark, The Immortal Otis Redding with from Mozart Studios. We sent the track to had just the right cat and we sent them
Al Jackson Jr., and he loved Buddy Miles. Marcus and he sent it back with his killin’ the track. He recorded a rapper named
He always told me to listen to Hendrix bass part. Stanley Nelson, who directed Blu, and that’s what you hear. Simply
Band of Gypsy’s. He wanted that groove. the Miles Ahead documentary, heard the incredible.
Miles wanted a radio friendly song, and track and wanted it on the soundtrack. MD: Vernon Reid really raised the bar on
that’s why Randy composed “The Man I co-produced the documentary with “Over My Shoulder.”
with the Horn” for Miles. Stanley Nelson, and it won an Emmy. VW: It was Lenny’s idea to call Vernon.
Everybody thinks that we made Miles MD: You and Lenny White are playing It was amazing, everyone we called said
play our own commercial music, but you double drums on some tracks, did you “Yes, I’ll do it, just tell me where and
didn’t make Miles Davis do anything! track at the same time, and why the when.” We did quite a lot in one or two
Some people think that we played with decision to play double drums? takes. Miles would often say, “Fear no
Miles because of nepotism. Nope! I’m VW: The night before we were going to mistakes, there are none.”
sorry it’s not true, none of that was record I wanted to go hear some music For example, when (tabla player) Badal

Roy was making On the Corner with Miles, I’ll come up with the artwork from what course!
Badal was playing tabla right by Uncle I hear. I was living in Chicago, so the AACM
Miles, so Miles looks down at Badal and MD: Before you played with Miles, where was very influential. I studied with
says, “You start.” And that’s how they were you coming from drum wise? How Thurman Barker; I am cousins with
started the entire record. No charts, no did you get started? Jerome Harris who played with Fontella
click, nothing! Miles just looks down and VW: In kindergarten I was the little Bass. Freddie and Maurice White from
says, “You start.” Chick told me that they drummer boy. When Uncle Miles would Earth, Wind, & Fire were very close friends
would meet for coffee after the Bitches come to Chicago, my parents wanted to of mine. I used to ask Maurice about the
Brew sessions and wonder, “What did we sit in the audience, but I always wanted to Chess Records drummers. I would play
just do?” That’s when you know you got stand in the wings. From there I could get anything and do it with conviction. I was
something. a bird’s eye view of the communication never interested in getting locked in to
MD: Talk about playing with Ron Carter. and the dialog with the drummer. Back any one thing.
VW: I’ve known Ron all my life, and I still in the day, they would have four or five MD: So many drummers mention the
see this superhero glow when I’m around groups on the bill. But when Miles was fact that when they first heard some
him. I’m like a little kid again. I get lost in headlining, I’d get to see all of the groups great music, they didn’t understand it,
the sound that he creates
on the bass. You hear the
notes, and you know that’s
Ron Carter. But you have
to stay focused on playing
the music. It was a beautiful
blessing to have Ron on the
record.
MD: Was this one of Wallace
Roney’s last recordings? We
all miss him.
VW: When we played the
track for Wallace, he heard
it a couple of times and
he went in and played
beautifully. Wallace is a
connection with Uncle
Miles because he knew so
much from being around
him. A while back Wallace
and I drove to the Zildjian
factory from New York,
and we just talked about
music the entire time.
Wallace was the last person
my father saw me playing
with before my dad passed
Richie Porter
away. And the day after my

dad’s funeral in Chicago,
I flew to New York to play
with Wallace and Marcus
Miller. I have a really close
connection with Wallace
and his brother Antoine,
their playing on this record was another before him. I was in a trance watching all but they still listened to it. Can you talk
magical moment. those drummers, I knew at a young age, about the importance of listening to
MD: Another magical aspect to the new that’s what I wanted to do. Tony Williams music and drumming that you don’t quite
record is the artwork, where did that told Wallace years later that he (Tony) understand?
come from? could tell by the way I used to look at him, VW: I was curious! I didn’t understand
VW: That was done by Mikel Elam, he he knew I was going to play drums. it, but I wanted to. The more I listened,
used to travel with Miles as his assistant. Miles had Columbia Records send the more I would try to figure it out. As
I’m a big fan of his work. I own some of records to my parent’s house and I would a kid, I didn’t know the magnitude of
his other pieces. I called Mike and said take them and sit in the basement and who Miles Davis was, he was just Uncle
I would like to use some of your pieces just listen. I didn’t understand most of it, Miles to me. We would go and pick up
that you’ve never shown as cover art for but I wanted to hear it, I wanted to ingest Uncle Miles at the airport, and every 5
the new record. He said no, send me the it, I wanted to be part of it, and that’s or 10 steps people would stop him and
music, I’ll let the music speak to me, and what I did. After I did my homework of ask for his autograph. I wondered, “Why

is everybody stopping Uncle Miles all don’t choose you, that doesn’t mean you direction that Miles gave us.
the time?” After I started playing more, can’t play.” That’s a pretty heavy thing to MD: Drum wise, what did you do after
I always played with musicians that tell someone to put them at ease. playing, recording, and touring with Miles
were older than me. I would ask lots of MD: Did the fact that he was Uncle Miles from 1984 through 1987?
questions. Young musicians and young put you at ease when you started playing VW: I remember talking to Tony about
people should ask more questions. I’ve with him? what I should do next. He said, “You
always been curious, I’m still curious. VW: I had really studied Al Foster’s played with Miles, right?” I said, “Yeah, I
When I’m teaching or doing master drumming, I watched Al like a hawk. did.” He said, “So now it’s time to do your
classes, I start by telling students not to When the chair became available, I knew own thing.” I never forgot that. My friend
be afraid to ask questions, that they can a lot of the open hi-hat things that Miles had a studio in Stockton, California so I
ask me anything they want. One time at liked. I love Al Foster’s drumming! So I was recording a lot of sessions there. I
a clinic I asked Tony, “What do you think tried to incorporate all of that into what started thinking about my own project
about before you play?” He said, “Well I I was doing. Darryl and Bobby (Robert and trying to compose music, but I didn’t
think about macaroni and cheese and Irving) were already in the band, so it turn down anybody who called me for
fried chicken, he was trying to be funny, felt like home. We just kept taking the work. I knew it was time to do my own
but I’ve always been thing, but I didn’t know
curious. I think (like you what that was. Then
said,) young people I set up a production
should ask questions company, we signed Phil
and not be afraid, Upchurch, Ivan Neville,
because knowledge is a very talented artist
wealth. named Niles Rivers, and
MD: You can read a a few other unsigned
good lesson into Tony’s artists. We started cutting
answer, he wasn’t records at a place called
thinking about the Rumbo Studios, which was
drums. Let’s move on to Captain and Tennille’s old
the Miles band that you studio. l created a mini-
Courtsey Miles Davis Estate
played in. It was a killer Motown, but we didn’t get

band with John Scofield, anything on the charts.
Bob Berg, Darryl Jones, But I spent a lot of money
and you. There is a DVD doing it because that was
called Live in Montreal my passion, that’s what I
that proves it. What can wanted to do. I wanted to
you tell me about that create, I wanted to have a
band? sound.
VW: After I did Man with MD: I really feel the spirit
the Horn, Darryl and I of Miles on this new
were doing sessions record, could you guys feel
around Chicago, and we played with
Ramsey Lewis. Darryl would always ask I’ll never forget one it in the studio when you were recording?
VW: I don’t want to sound too
thing that Miles told

what it was like to play with Miles. When (whatever…) But a lot of times Uncle
Miles’ bass chair came up, I mentioned Miles comes to me in a dream. He doesn’t
Darryl Jones, Nate Phillips from a group say anything, I just see his face and his
called Pleasure, and Felton Crews. As it
turned out, Darryl was home when we
Darryl before he smile, it’s not frightening or anything.
When we were recording, we all definitely
called. I introduced them over the phone
and Darryl auditioned (over the phone)
auditioned. He said, felt his spirit and his vibe at Mozart
Studios. But again, we were trying to
on a Monday. Miles asked him when
he could be in New York. Darryl said he “If I don’t choose you, come up with some new ideas and Miles
Davis University was influencing us all.
that doesn’t mean

could be in New York by Wednesday. We had Ron Carter, John Scofield, Wallace
Miles reacted with, “What cha’ gonna do, Roney, Bernard Wright, Lenny, so we
walk here?” Miles sent him a plane ticket couldn’t help but feel him there. We built
and Darryl and I were there on Tuesday.
Darryl learned the music from board
you can’t play.” That’s the M.E.B. based on what he taught us.
This isn’t an “all-star” record, and we didn’t
tapes. Miles heard his auditon and told
me to tell Darryl that he got the gig. I told a pretty heavy thing approach it that way at all.
MD: With all of those guests, and all the
Darryl, and he told me, “I gotta hear Miles
say it.” So Miles told him he got the gig. to tell someone to music on the new record, how did you
know when anything was “done”?
put them at ease.

I’ll never forget one thing that Miles told VW: Lenny and I trusted each other to
Darryl before he auditioned. He said, “If I know when the project was finished.

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MD: What drummers have influenced you

a great deal? When we were what made it Miles. No one could put
their stamp on a beautiful ballad like
recording, we all
VW: Everybody! I am influenced by my Miles. He put his stamp on everything he
drumming heroes and I am continually played. That’s why we love Miles.
influenced by drummers around the Miles Davis changed the course of
world. Too many to mention. You know
who you are!
definitely felt his music numerous times in his career, yet
he still had that thirst and that hunger
I’m stealing and listening all the time.
I keep music on in the house 24-7. When spirit and his vibe for melodies— it was incredible. He was
always changing. He even changed his
I was living with Uncle Miles and my
cousin Erin, Miles was always listening at Mozart Studios. clothes three or four times a day. You
would be hanging out at the house
to music. He never stopped listening. and look over and Uncle Miles would
But he never listened to his old records. suddenly be wearing a completely
of him playing Aretha Franklin’s “Natural
He would have MTV on all day with the different outfit. At his house he had (what
Woman.” He loved the melody of Tina
sound turned down, and his horn next we used to call) his stations. He would just
Turner “What’s Love Got to Do With It.” I’ve
to him. And if there was something cool move from station to station, and never
never forgotten all of that. Like Miles, I’m
on, he’d turn it up and learn and play the waste a minute of the day. He was always
still a musical sponge. You should never
melody. Then after he played the melody, creating. I witnessed that firsthand. You
pigeonhole yourself into one style of
he’d go to the piano. had to be there.
music.
MD: What melodies and songs would he MD: And the new record gives us a small
I was actually at the session when Miles
play along to? glimpse of what it was like to be there.
played on Toto’s “Don’t Stop Me Now.” I
VW: He dug “Broken Wings” by Mr. Mister,
loved Jeff Porcaro. I remember (from the
of course, “Human Nature” and “Time
Toto session) how Miles put himself in
After Time” that’s why he recorded them.
He liked the African band Kassav, Scritti
these different situations, and he would Check out Vince’s
always put his stamp on the song. That’s drummer profile page, at
Politti, Prince, George Duke, I have a DAT moderndrummer.com
BASICS
How To Deal with Nervousness

By Chris Lesso
of getting all wrapped up in ourselves, ting in the work, the RLG attitude keeps
“The struggle ends what if we shift the focus to WE? us at our best in those high-pressure
when the gratitude This literally happened to me when situations that are sure to come our way.
I performed at the Sonor Drumfest a
begins.” few years ago. Of course, it’s a DRUM- RLG: Be Real, Listen,
fest, so the room is already filled with
-Neale Donald Walsch drummers. And lining the back of the
Have Gratitude
hall was all my heavy-hitting peers, all BE REAL: ‘Do you’. Own your unique-
The RLG mantra will empower you to of whom I looked up to and respected
channel new levels of energy and cre- ness. Speak YOUR voice on the drums
greatly. This is when imposter syndrome loud and proud, never trying to be
ativity when it counts. Performance anx- tries to sabotage the moment by asking
iety can get in the way of big moments something or someone else you’re not.
self-defeating questions like, ‘What the
when all we want to do is shine. There heck am I doing here?’ Halfway into the
are so many things that DON’T work, like LISTEN: Instead of getting all wrapped
first song I did a double take, because up in your own head, take in the grand
trying to talk yourself out of it or falling there at side stage behind the curtain
into the trap of trying to impress others. landscape of the music enveloping you.
was Steve Smith eating a sandwich. He Lift the focus off of you and into aware-
There’s no magic cure,
but there is a way to shift ness of the space you’re in.
focus and get back to You can ‘listen’ with all five
our best. senses. Reach out into the
Do this thought world instead of getting all
experiment: You’re spun up inside of your own
onstage about to play, drama.
and you see five people
coming in being seated HAVE GRATITUDE: Golf
at a table right next to icon Jack Nicklaus said that
the stage. Your eyes even in the most intense
widen in amazement competitions, he was still
as you realize it’s five of able to take in the striking
your favorite drummers, beauty of the course while
teachers, mentors, or thinking to himself, ‘Wow,
biggest inspirations. this is pretty amazing I get to
(We’re imagining, so be here right now.’ Don’t ever
they could be alive or become so jaded that you
dead.) Who are the ‘Big 5’ you hold dear? don’t see the big magic in
was performing later in the day, and what you’re doing! We
Well, there they are, about to check your there he was checking me out. Steve has
band out, and they’re watching. How do don’t HAVE to do this, we GET to.
been one of my biggest influences for Through any struggle, we can always
you feel? The revealing question is, how forever. Besides stealing his haircut, I’ve
would it affect your playing? Whoever come back to gratitude.
learned a trove of knowledge from him. Live out your RLG to overcome fear
you imagine at your table resonates It could be a moment like this when one
with how deeply you care. We would all and you’ll find your insecurity and
of your heroes is checking you out, or self-doubt dissipating, leaving the best
definitely notice, because we all want to maybe it’s the red light fever of record-
sound our best. But how do we become of you to shine in the world. Transform
ing. It might simply come from playing through drumming.
it when it counts? in front of friends and family. However,
How we choose to react reveals how Are you ready to rise to your 2.0 in
in the moment of impact, we must not drumming and life? Chris Lesso’s LTR
centered we are in our self-expression. get rattled, instead we can draw from a
We’re aware of the outer world we can’t DRUMMING METHOD is for drummers
deeper source of undefeatable expres- who want to reach higher. If you’re ready
control, but we must own the inner sion that’s all our own.
game of what we can control. How to unleash your best self through drum-
Nothing works without first doing the ming, book your FREE vision session
would things play out if you stay stuck work. If I hadn’t prepared like a madman,
in your head, hyper analyzing every here at chrislesso.net/LTRDRUMMING
shown up early to go through every con-
note while trying to impress everyone? tingency, and kept myself in top shape
There’s no right or wrong, only conse- with a pro athlete mindset, nothing Check out Chris’s Modern
quences. Focus is like a spotlight, and would have saved me. The basics need Drummer profile page at
whatever you shine it on expands. Gear- to be in place before anything. After put- moderndrummer.com
ing up to impress is ME based. Instead

BEST SELLING DRUM TITLES WORLDWIDE
DIGI
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INSIDE CODE
The Bass Drum Owners Manual

Applying the Moeller Technique DIGI
DOWTAL DVD
PETER
INCL NLOAD
UDE
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to the Bass Drum

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By Michael Packer
80 pages of extensive and new

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Peter’s analysis and insights on
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MD archive of Steve’s cover/feature interviews
Photos/analysis of Smith’s drumsets through the years
Available in print and digital format at moderndrummer.com or from your favorite music retailer
ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC
The Bass Drum Owners Manual:

Playing the Hi-Hat
By Michael Packer
T his month Modern Drummer will continue to include excerpts

from Michael Packer’s essential book on bass drum control
and technique The Bass Drum Owners Manual: Applying the
The Hi-Hat Strokes
When playing a closed sound with the foot lift the heel to its
playing position and bounce the leg up and down. The heel will
Moeller Technique to the Bass Drum. As you will see, this is a new not drop to the pedal board after each stroke. It stays up and
way of thinking about bass drum (and foot) control that is based the weight remains between the ball and the tip of the foot. This
in an old, popular, and useful hand technique called The Moeller keeps the cymbals closed after each stroke. See example 1A.
¥
Technique. Michael addresses the essential components of bass
drum and hi-hat control. Let Michael’s wisdom and the wisdom
of the Moeller Technique help you improve the control, sound,
and eventually speed, of your feet, regardless of musical style.
M M
This month Michael addresses the hi-hat foot, and breaks down For open, then closed sound we will use the heel toe rocking
the motions of the left foot. technique period to open, drop the heel to the pedal board.
Then quickly lift the heel and apply the pressure to the tip of
The Hi-Hat Playing Position the foot, thus, closing the cymbals. Repeat these motions as
Position your foot on the hi-hat pedal board so the tip of the necessary. See example 1B.
¥
foot is near or at the top. Raise the heel approximately one to
two inches off the ground, keeping all the weight of the leg on
the tip of the foot. This will keep the hi-hat cymbals closed. If a
tight hi-hat sound is desired apply a lot of pressure. For a looser
MM M MM M
but still closed sound back off the pressure just a little. When
resting drop the heel to the pedal board. The foot never leaves To play successive splash or open sounds, play the first note
the pedal. as an open. The following notes are played by dropping the
heel and keeping the foot at a 45-degree angle. This causes the
Hi-Hat Notation cymbals to splash together. Continue this motion until returning
The following notation will be used for the hi-hat throughout to your original playing position, redistributing the weight to the
this article: tip of the foot and closing the cymbals. See example 1C.
¥
sh
ed
la
os
pe
M M M M
Sp
Cl
¥
M MM M
M
Hi-Hat Exercises
1. 2. 3. 4.
¥ ³ H ³ H ³ H
M M M M M M M M M
5. 6. 7.
¥ B
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M M
8. 9. 3
10.
¥ ³
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M M
11. 12. 13. 3
¥ ³ H
MM M M M M M MM M M MM M M M M M MM M M

14. 15. 16.
¥ ³ H
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M M M M M
17. 18. 3
19.
¥ ³ H ³ H
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M M M
20. 21. 22.

¥ ³ H ³ H
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M M
23. 3
24. 25.
¥ ³ H ³ H ³ H
M M M M MMM M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M M M
26. 27. 28.

¥ ³ H ³ H
M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M M M M M
The Bass Drum Owners Manual

Applying the Moeller Technique DIGITA
DOWN
INCLUD
L DV
LOA D
ED
D
to the Bass Drum

By Michael Packer
Check out Michael’s Modern Drummer profile page

and get your copy of The Bass Drum Owners Manual
at moderndrummer.com

ROCK PERSPECTIVES
The Encyclopedia of Double Bass Drumming

Binary Beats
By Bobby Rondinelli and Michael Lauren
I n the new and revised edition of the Encyclopedia

of Double Bass Drumming, Bobby includes nine
new double bass drumming chapters. The new and
right-handed players lead with their left foot—
whatever works for you is OK. Always strive for great
quality of sound and groove and remember to start
expanded edition covers contemporary techniques slowly at first. Have fun!
such as bass drum double strokes, feet-only
exercises, binary and ternary rhythms, “skiplets”,
beat turnarounds, the “ladder”, and playing doubles -Don’t flam the snare, make sure it lands right on
with the hands while playing singles with the the bass drum.
feet. These concepts will challenge your playing
while expanding your double bass vocabulary. If -In the beginning, lighten up on your snare hit so
practiced with intention and diligence, this material that you can really hear where it is hitting in relation
will help to prepare you for the demands of today’s to the bass drum.
music. This material is advanced, but completely attainable for
anyone who has completed the previous chapters in my book. -Don’t worry about speed try to make your feet sound even.
This month Bobby explains his concept of binary beats in
double bass drum grooves in one, two, and four-bar beats. -Work on getting your weak foot to sound as loud as your
Remember that most beats are written with strong foot lead (if strong foot.
you are right-handed, then that would be your right foot.) Some
÷ 44 œ œ œ œ
y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y
.. ÷ .. œ œ œ ..
1 2
œ œ œ œ œ œœœ œ œ œ
y y y y y y y y . y y y y y y y y .
÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .
3 4
œ œ œ œ . œœ œ
y y y y y y y y y y y y y y œœy œy ..
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ
5 6
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
7 8
œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
9 10
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ

÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
11 12
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ
y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y y .
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
13 14
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ .
÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ ..
15 16
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœ
œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
17 18
œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
19 20
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
y y y y y y y y . y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ ..
21 22
œ œ œœ œ . œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ
y y y y y y œy y y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ ..
23 24
œ œ
œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ
y y œy y y y œy y . y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
25 26
œ œ œ œ œœœœœœœ œ . œœ œ œ
y y œy œy y y œy y . y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œ ÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
27 28
œ œ œ œœœœœœœœœ . œœ œœ œœ œœ
y y œy y y y œy y . y yœyœy y y œy y œ .
÷ .. œ œ ÷ .. œ
29 30
œ œ œ œœœœœœœœœ . .
œ œœœœœœœ œ œ
y y y y y y y y y yy y y y
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ .. ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ ..
31 32
œ œœ œœ œ œ œ œœ œœ œœ œ
÷ .. œ œ .. ÷ .. œœ œ œœ œœ œ ..
33 34
œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ
œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ
y y y y y y y y . y y y y y y y y .
÷ .. œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ ÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
35 36
. .
œ œ œœ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œ
y y œy œy y y y œy . y y y y y y œy œ y .
÷ .. œ ÷ .. œ œ œ œ
37 38
œ œœœœœœœœœ . œœœœœœœœœ .
y y œy y œ y y œy y . y y y yœy y œy y .
÷ .. œ ÷ .. œ œ œ
39 40
œœœœœ œœœ . œœœœœœœ .

œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
41
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
Courtesy Bobby Rondinelli
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
42
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ

÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
43
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ ..
44
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
45
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
46
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œ œœ œœ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
47
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œ œ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
48
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œœ œœ œ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ ..
49
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œœ œœ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ ..
50
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ ..
51
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œ

÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œœ œœ œœœ œœ œœ œœ œœœ œœ ..
52
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ œœ
y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y .
÷ .. œ
53
œ œ œ œ œ .
œ œ œ œœœœœœœœ œ œ œ œ œ œ
y y y y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y .
÷ .. œ œ œ
54
.
œ œœœ œœœ œ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ
y y y y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y .
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
55
œœ œœ œ œ œœœœœœœœœœœœœœœ œ .
÷ .. œ ..
56
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œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœœœœœœœœœ
y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. ..
57
œ œ œ œ œ œœœœœ œ œ
y y
œy
y y y y y y y œy y œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ .
÷ .. œ
58
œ œœœœœœœ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ .
y y œy y y y y y
÷ .. œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
59
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œ œœœœœœœœœœ œœ œ œœ œ
y y y y y y
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
60
œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ
3 3 3 3 4

y y y y y y y y
÷ .. œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œœ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
61
œœ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ
62
œ œ œœœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœœœ œ
y y œy y y y œy y œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
÷œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
y y y y y y y y y y œy y y y œy y
÷ .. œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ
63
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœ œœœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ
y y œy y y y œy y y y œy y œ œ œ œ .
÷œœ œœœœœœœ .
œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœœ œœœ œ œ œ œ
÷ .. œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œœ œ œ œ œ œœ œ
64
œ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œ œ œ œ
y y y y y y y y
÷ œœ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
œœœœœ œ œ œ œ œœœœœœœ œ œ œ œ œœ œœ œœ œ
y y œ y y y y œy y y y y y œ y y œy y
÷ .. œ
65
œ
œ œœœœœœœœœœœ œ œœœœœ œ
y y œy y y y y y œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ œ ..
÷ œ
œœœœœ œœœœœœœœœœ œœ œ œœ œ
Check out Bobby’s Modern Drummer profile pages
and get your copy of The Encyclopedia of Double Bass
Drumming at moderndrummer.com
FUNK FUNDAMENTALS
Exercises in African-American Funk

“Mangambe, Bikutsi, and the Shuffle”
By Jonathan Joseph
Presents:
In Modern Drummer’s ongoing introduction to Jonathan Joseph’s book Exercises in African American Funk: Exercises in
Mangambe, Bikutsi, and the Shuffle; This month we will continue with Jonathan’s explanation of a unique African-American Funk
Mangambe, Bikutsi, and the Shuffle
African groove called Bikutsi. • Strengthen Your Groove
Bikutsi is a musical genre from Cameroon that features the 3:4 polyrhythm. It has roots in the traditional • Increase Rhythmic Awareness
music of the Beti people, who live around the city of Yaounde’, along with various elements of the pop- by Jonathan Joseph
and Steve Rucker
rock idiom.
The characteristic rhythm of the Bikutsi is a grouping of triplets in a four-note pattern. Elements of this
chapter are directly related to lessons discussed in earlier issues of Modern Drummer. If you aren’t clear on
the 3:4 polyrhythm, please review those lessons.
> 3
>
3 3
> 3
4¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿
/4
Here’s an example of a bikutsi-pop drumset rhythm.
> 3
>3 > 3
> 3
4 ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ œ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿
/4œ œ œ œ
By moving the snare accent to beat 3, we can create a simple bikutsi shuffle-funk pattern.
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
4¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿
/4œ ‰ œ œ œ
Here’s a shuffle-funk variation with the bass drum on the first beat only.
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
4 ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿
4œ Œ Œ Œ
We can also open the hi-hat where the accents occur.
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
4 O ‰ ¿ ¿ O ‰ œ¿ ¿ O ‰ ¿ ¿
/4œ œ œ œ
Here’s the same variation with the bass drum on the first beat only.
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
4 O ‰ ¿ ¿ O ‰ œ¿ ¿ O ‰ ¿ ¿
4œ Œ Œ Œ
Here are the shuffle-funk bass drum patterns from the previous chapters with the bikutsi rhythm
played on the hi-hat.
> > > 3
> 3
3 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ 4
™
/ ™œ œ œ œ ‰ œ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> >3 > 3 > 3
3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ œ œœ œ ‰ œ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> >3 > 3 > 3
3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ œ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ œ œ œ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> > > 3> 3
3 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ œ œ œ œ ‰ œ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> > > 3> 3
3 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ œ œ œ ‰ œ œ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> > > 3> 3
3 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ œ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ œ œ ‰ œ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> > > 3> 3
3 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ œ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ œ œ œ ‰ œ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> > > 3> 3
3 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ œ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ œ œ œ œ ‰ œ ‘ ‘ ‘
Next, move the hi-hat part to the ride cymbal and play quarter notes on the hi-hat with the foot.
Here’s a simple version.
> > > 3
> 3
3 3
4 ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿
/ 4 œ¿ ‰ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿
And here’s the same variation with the shuffle-funk bass drum patterns added from the
previous exercises.
> 3 > > 3 > 3
3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ¿ œ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> 3 > > 3 > 3

3
¿ œ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ¿ ¿ œ ¿ ¿ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
¿ œ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ 4
™
™
/ œ¿ œ ¿ œ ¿ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
¿
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
¿ œ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ 4
™
™
/ œ¿ œ ¿ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
¿ ¿
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
¿ œ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ 4
™
™
/ œ¿ œ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
¿ ¿ ¿
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
¿ œ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ 4
™
™
/ œ¿ œ ¿ œ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
¿ ¿
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œ¿ œ ¿ œœ œ¿ œ ¿ œ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
¿ œ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ 4
™
™
/ œ¿ œ ¿ œ ¿ œ ¿ œ ‘ ‘ ‘
Here’s a three-step process to create the long three on the hi-hat with the foot along with the bikutsi
ride pattern.
Step 1: Play six against four on the hi-hat with the foot, which aligns with the accents that are played
on the ride.
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
4¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿
/ 4 œ¿ ‰ ¿ œ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ‰ ¿ œ ¿ ‰
3 3 3 3
Step 2: Splash every other hi-hat note, starting on beat 1. These splashes can be achieved by using a
heel-toe movement with the foot, creating the long three.
> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
4¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿
/ 4 œO ‰ ¿ œ O ‰ œ¿ ‰ O œ ¿ ‰
3 3 3 3
Step 3: Play the snare on beat 3.

> 3 >3 > 3 > 3
4 ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿
/ 4 œO ‰ ¿ œ O ‰ œ¿ ‰ O œ ¿ ‰
3 3 3 3
Here are the same patterns from before with the hi-hat splashing on every other note to create the
long three.
> > > >
3 3 3 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œO ‰œ ¿ ‰ O ‰œ œ¿ ‰ O ‰ œ¿ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
3 3 3 3
> > > >

3 3 3 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œO ‰œ ¿ ‰ O ‰œœ œ¿ ‰ O ‰ œ¿ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
3 3 3 3
> > > >

3 3 3 3
¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ ¿ ¿ 4
/ ™™ œO ‰œ œ¿ ‰ O ‰œœ œ¿ ‰ O ‰ œ¿ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
3 3 3 3
> > > >

3 3 3 3
¿ œ ¿ ¿ ¿ œ œ¿ ¿ ¿ ‰ œ¿ ¿ 4
™
™
/ œO ¿ O ¿ œO ‰ ¿ ‰ ‘ ‘ ‘ ™™
‰ ‰ ‰ ‰
3 3 3 3
Presents:
Exercises in
African-American Funk
Mangambe, Bikutsi, and the Shuffle
• Strengthen Your Groove
• Increase Rhythmic Awareness
Check out Jonathan’s drummer

by Jonathan Joseph
and Steve Rucker
profile page and get your copy of

Exercises in African-American Funk
at moderndrummer.com
STYLE AND ANALYSIS
Bill Stewart’s Phrasing in Five

By Daniel Bédard
I ’ve been a big Bill Stewart fan for quite some time now. Ever since I heard him on his first solo outing, I’ve always
looked forward to the various records to which he would collaborate. One of Bill’s best collaborations is with jazz
guitarist John Scofield and if I had to pick a favorite recording, it would be the amazing live record called Enroute.
In this set of exercises, I decided to focus on the pattern Bill plays in the introduction of the 5/4 song “Toogs”. He
plays a cool rhythm over the snare and floor tom, and I thought it would be a good idea to develop some more
patterns inspired by that.
The Original Idea:

Bill plays a five note pattern using the RLRRL sticking. His right hand plays the snare and the floor tom while his left
hand stays on the snare playing rim clicks.

I figured we could take the same idea and play it in 8th and 16th notes to change things up and expand our
vocabulary a bit:

Changing the Original 5/4 pattern

The original 5 notes grouping uses a sticking that goes RLRRL so I thought we might also try RRLRL which would
create a new sounding pattern.

Once you go through the idea in triplets, I figured we could still play it in 8ths and 16ths.


And here’s one more five note sticking inspired by the original Bill Stewart idea. Now, we’ll use RLRLL. Once again,
the subtle change creates a new sound.

Again, let’s play it in both 8ths and 16ths.

One Variation:
At some point during the song, Bill changes his original pattern with the variation below. I find it creates a nice
turnaround in the pattern. Try playing four bar phrases ending with this variation.

Hi-hat foot patterns:

Bill splashes his hi-hat foot on all 5 quarters notes when he plays the original idea. Try going through the
variations using these other hi-hat foot pattern ideas. If you get confused, make sure you count out loud.

When you are comfortable with all these ideas, you can try creating four phrases by playing four bars of time
in 5/4 and then playing four bars of one of the patterns we discussed above. This way, you’ll find these ideas
creeping their way in your playing. Be sure to check out John Scofield’s Enroute record, there are many more ideas
to discover there.
Daniel Bédard is a professional drummer based

in Montreal, Canada. He plays with various acts
around town and teaches many students. He’s
currently writing an all-encompassing snare
drum book. www.danielbedardrums.com
Check out Daniel’s Modern Drummer

profile page at moderndrummer.com
July 2023 Modern Drummer 57

TEACHER’S FORUM
Snare Drum Duets

Duet 6
By Ron Spagnardi
A s an ongoing tribute to Ron Spagnardi who founded Modern Drummer Publications in 1977 and was an
excellent drum teacher and author in his own right, Modern Drummer has been including some of the arti-
cles, exercises, and pieces that Ron included in his many fine books. This month we will include another snare
drum duet (“Duet 6”) from Ron’s book Snare Drum Duets: 25 Duets for Two Snare Drummers. This is a nice inter-
mediate duet in 5/4 that could be played by a teacher and a student, or just two drummers getting together
for some rhythmic interplay. It is also a good way to start to feel the odd time signature of 5/4 and develop
some vocabulary for the next time you have to take a solo on Dave Brubeck’s “Take Five.” Enjoy!

Check out Ron’s Modern Drummer profile page and get
your copy of Snare Drum Duets at moderndrummer.com
A Life in the Drum Business By Mark Griffith
John DeChristopher is one of the most respected people his access to great drumming has helped him create and
in the drum business. He helped create the modern host the popular Live from My Drum Room and TrackTalk
version of artist relations with his work with Simmons podcasts with guest drummers from Bill Gibson and Stan
Drums, Drum Workshop, and Zildjian. His life in the drum Lynch to Jeff Watts and Vinnie Colaiuta, and everybody
industry parallels the rise of the modern drumming in between. Unfortunately, while he helps us learn about
industry. From his early employment at E. U. Wurlitzer those drumming legends, we never get to learn much
Music in Boston in the late 70s, through his retirement about the fascinating drum business personality known
from Zildjian in 2013, he has seen it all. Today, the life of affectionately as “Johnny D.”
Tom Evans
MD: You have had a long and distinguished career in the music Drums in England, but Glyn Thomas was the person who
biz, but most people only associate you with Zildjian. However, launched Simmons Drums in America. He moved from London
you had a long career before Zildjian, can we go back and look to form Simmons Group Centre, in Calabasas, CA, which is
at your career from the beginning? outside of Los Angeles. Wurlitzer bought the first Simmons
JD: My first job was a paper route in 1972, when I was 11. I SDS V in Boston in 1982. The deal was, if we bought this very
bought my first pair of drumsticks and my first used Zildjian expensive and revolutionary electronic drum kit, Glyn would
cymbal with my paper route money. I started working at a music come to the store and do a clinic. So Glyn came to Wurlitzer
store in 1979 called E. U. Wurlitzer Music in Boston. It was the and we hit it off immediately. He put on a great clinic, we sold
biggest MI store in Boston at that the kit the next day to the Cars
time. I was playing in my band drummer, David Robinson, who
“Voyager” and like everyone else, was a regular customer, and
I wanted to make it in the music that began my relationship with
business. I was planning to go Glyn. We started selling lots of
Courtesy of John DeChristopher Library
to Berklee but decided to take Simmons Drums as they took

a gap year. Then my friend Fred off and I bought a Simmons
Gilfeather (aka Freddie G) offered SDS7 kit personally and would
me a job at Wurlitzer and a year call their office in Calabasas for
turned into four years at Wurlitzer, technical support or to order
including being promoted to product. In 1985, I contacted
Drum Department Manager, Glyn because I was moving to
and I never made it to Berklee. LA to pursue music and was
When I look back at it now, I’d looking for a job to land on my
say things worked out for the feet when I got there. He said if
best. Working at Wurlitzer was you come out here, I’ll have a job
my steppingstone to the drum John and Charilie Watts for you. And he did. Simmons
industry. was an incredible group of
I met so many people who people, many of whom I consider
were key figures in the drum lifelong friends. In my first month
industry and would later become
key figures in my path to working
On the outside, Artist working at Simmons, I met so
many drummers who became
in the business. I met Vic Firth in
1980. I used to order drumsticks Relations looks very lifelong friends. Gregg Bissonette,
Myron Grombacher, Gerry
directly from him. My wife Kelly Brown, Danny Seraphine, John
(Firth) remembers how people glamorous, but to Robinson, Josh Freese and Chad
would call the house to place Wackerman to name a few. I’m
their orders, which is what I
did when I worked at Wurlitzer.
do the job at the forever grateful to Glyn for giving
me my first break in the business.
Vic would deliver the sticks on
his way to Boston Symphony
level I did, was a I’m still in touch with him today.
MD: After Simmons, did you
Orchestra concerts. Symphony
Hall was around the corner from tremendous sacrifice go directly to work for Drum
Workshop?
Wurlitzer and Vic would come JD: Yes, those were the early days
in wearing his tux, carrying a of your personal time of Drum Workshop drums. I met
Don Lombardi at a drum clinic in
box of sticks and mallets and
say, “I’m not leaving until I get a
check.” I’d have to battle it out
and life. Los Angeles. I remember telling
him that I had bought DW’s first
with my store manager to get Vic left-footed double pedal in 1983,
his check, because he operated and he kind of remembered it.
on C.O.D. only. He was a smart Don is one of the nicest, most
businessman. I met Armand humble, unassuming people,
Zildjian, Lennie DiMuzio, Steve and I was honored to meet the

Gadd, Simon Phillips, Peter man that made these great
Erskine, and Tony Williams when pedals. I think we met a couple
we held drum clinics at the shop, of times. In late summer of 1986,
and most significantly, in 1982 he called me at home one night
I met Glyn Thomas of Simmons and said that my name came
Drums. He gave me my first job in up, because DW was looking
the industry. to get into the acoustic drum
Madison Phipps
MD: Was Glyn the brains behind market. He said (at the time),
Simmons? “Rogers is gone, Slingerland is
JD: Glyn was the US distributor. gone, Gretsch is barely hanging
Dave Simmons started Simmons Hal Blaine and John on, Ludwig is barely hanging on,

and I think there’s an opportunity for an starting salary wasn’t going to work for
American drum company to compete me, especially considering the money
with the Japanese companies (Yamaha, I would potentially make selling DW

Pearl and Tama), if it’s done right.” He Drums, so I was prepared to pass and told
was looking for someone with Sales them so. On the outside, Artist Relations
and Artist Relations experience and looks very glamorous, but to do the
asked if I’d be interested in meeting job at the level I did, was a tremendous
with him to discuss working there. sacrifice of your personal time and life.
At that time, things were changing At the same time, I was approached by
at Simmons due to competition from HSS, who was Sabian’s US distributor,
Roland and Yamaha electronic drums, about a possible job as their New England
and by 1986 you were starting to Sales Rep. I knew my only leverage in
see the return of acoustic drum sets. negotiating would be at this early stage,
A year earlier in 1985, it was almost since they had approached me and made
exclusively electronic drums. And at John and Roy Haynes it clear they wanted to hire me, and I was
that time, my first wife and I learned prepared to walk away. Ultimately, things
we were expecting our first child, so worked out and I accepted the position
MD: How did working at Zildjian come
I was looking for stability. After a few with Zildjian as Artist Relations Manager
about?
more discussions, I accepted an Artist in May of 1989.
JD: I was at the NAMM show in January
Relations/Sales Manager job at Drum MD: Those are three groundbreaking
1989 working for DW and stopped by
Workshop and started there in November companies. What similarities did you see
the Zildjian booth. Colin Schofield,
of 1986. The hard part was telling Glyn I in those three companies?
their Marketing Manager at the time,
was leaving Simmons, but he understood JD: DW and Zildjian are family businesses.
approached me. He said they were
DW was a better opportunity. And Simmons was too, to a lesser degree.
looking to expand Artist Relations. Lennie
LA had lost its luster, so I moved back All three were small companies when I
DiMuzio was moving to Education and
to the East Coast in late 1988 and opened started at each one. What it said on your
they were looking for someone with
Drum Workshop’s East Coast Sales and business card and what you actually did
Artist Relations experience, and my name
Artist Relations office out of my house. some days could be very different. You
came up. Some of their artists had spoken
DW drums were starting to take off, and I wore a lot of hats and that was ok. In
highly of me. I gave Colin my resume and
was driving to New York every month to each of those companies, I felt like I was
he called me a week or so later and asked
service Manny’s, Sam Ash and Long Island contributing something and making an
if I’d be interested in coming to Norwell
Drum Center and writing a lot of business. impact. I’m proud of my work at all of
for an interview and to discuss it further.
MD: How long were you at each of the them.
So I did. I had two interviews, including
jobs before Zildjian? MD: Before you (and your artist relations
one with Armand Zildjian, Lennie, and
JD: Simmons was a year and four months, peers) started doing artist relations for
Craigie Zildjian. I was definitely interested
DW was two and a half years, then to DW and Zildjian, were there people doing
in the job, it was Zildjian after all, but the
Zildjian for 24 years. that before you, did those jobs even really
exist?
JD: Until Lennie DiMuzio started in the
early 1960s, Zildjian didn’t have an official
Artist Relations person. Armand certainly
interacted with drummers, but he wasn’t
a drummer at the level Lennie was. I’d say
that Artist Relations as we know it today,
began with Lennie. In the 60s, Gretsch
had a man named Phil Grant. I never had
the honor of meeting him but from what
I hear, he was he was very good at his job.
And the other drum companies had Artist
Relations people I believe, but they’ll
never be anyone like Lennie. I learned

a lot just from being around him. The
fact that I was only the second person
entrusted with Zildjian’s Artist Relations
program, Lennie being the first, is not lost
on me.
MD: I think a lot of people see the title
“Artist Relations,” and wonder what that
really means. How did you develop and
define the job of Artist Relations while
Peter Erskine, John, and you were at Zildjian?
Gregg Bissonette JD: It was about always servicing and

supporting the artists. Peter Erskine,
Steve Gadd, Dennis Chambers, Steve
Smith, Mike Mangini, the list goes on,
knew they could depend on me. My job
was advocating for the artists but at the
same time I had a fiscal responsibility to
Zildjian. Artist Relations is being all things

to all people. Advocating for the artists
and promoting the company.
I didn’t hesitate to go to Zildjian and
say, “We should put Steve Gadd on a tour
bus across the country for a clinic tour.
We’ll call it “Mission From Gadd.” It’s going
to cost x dollars and we might not break
even, but it’s something that’s never been
done before. It will raise the bar for clinics
and promotional events and attract
thousands of customers.” It was such a
huge success, we did three Mission From Dennis Chambers, Steve Smith, Vinnie Colaiuta, and John
Gadd Tours in the US and two throughout
Europe. Besides servicing and supporting
the newest and hottest drummers as very important. The groove, the feel, the
artists, I was always looking for new and
artists and I’m proud of all the artists I tempo, dynamics, arrangements… These
unique ways to combine the strength
signed during my tenure. I’ll just add that are all things that live within the music,
of our artist roster, with promoting the
one of the things I’m most proud of is just like the things that you did live within
Zildjian brand.
connecting Zildjian with Charlie Watts, the business. They are things that aren’t
I also developed the concept of “Artist
Ringo Starr, Hal Blaine, Levon Helm, seen or heard, but they are definitely felt.
Sessions” in the early 2000s, in Los
and Max Weinberg. None of them had a We’re talking about nuance.
Angeles, New York, London, Nashville
relationship with Zildjian before me, and JD: Mark, that is very well put! I couldn’t
and in key European markets. I’m happy
I nurtured those relationships over the agree more.
to see Zildjian is still doing them today.
years. MD: What did playing music and playing
I also produced the Zildjian Drummers
MD: And ironically, as drummers that’s drums teach you for the future.
Achievement Awards in 2003, honoring
what we do as musicians. We play for the JD: Everything I’ve achieved in my music
Steve Gadd and Armand Zildjian, and in
band and the song, while we also look industry career started with playing the
2008 in London honoring Ginger Baker.
out for a lot of the “inside stuff” that is all drums. From the age of 11 until my mid
Of course, part of the job was signing
20s, my entire world revolved around the
drums. It’s all I wanted to do. I joined my
first band, “Undun” when I was 13 and
by 14, I joined “Trigger” and was playing
semi-professionally. We were a good little
band. What I didn’t know at the time, but
know now, is playing music taught me
how to work with people, compromise,
get along and work as a team, and be
professional and respectful. All important
things in music and in life. It wasn’t until
I started working at Simmons that I
realized I could have a career in the Drum
Industry. Ironically, I moved to LA to
become a pro drummer and after being
there for a year or so, shifted my focus to

a career in the Drum Industry.
MD: The more I teach (and talk to) people
about drums and music, the more that
I see that drums and music teach us all
(young and old) some very important
life lessons. From teenage musicians,
through young adults, to corporate and
professional people. Everyone can learn
from the role of the drums within music.
JD: That’s really interesting. I’ve never
thought about it that way, but you’re
absolutely right. Drums connect many

things.
MD: Why did you wind up leaving Zildjian
as an AR person?
JD: One of the things that comes with
working somewhere for a long time is
having a perspective on how you used to
do things, and how you do things now.
To that end, I felt I could no longer do my
best work. I was part of the golden era of
the Drum Industry, and I had a great run.

Leaving Zildjian was one of the hardest
decisions I’ve ever made. I loved my job
and wanted to do it at the highest level,
but the business was changing, and I felt
frustrated with things that were beyond
my control, and I knew I could no longer
do my best work. After 24 great years, I
felt it was time to ride off into the sunset.
But I’m very proud of my career and
legacy with Zildjian and I can look back
with only the fondest memories of my
time there. Armand, Craigie, and Debbie Steve Gadd, John, and Rick Marotta
Zildjian will always have a special place in
my heart. They’re celebrating their 400th Orchestra for over 50 years, taught at applying that knowledge to business.
anniversary this year and I’m proud to be New England Conservatory, and started JD: What you’ll learn through studying
part of their history. making drumsticks in his basement. His any great musician whether it’s Vic Firth,
MD: You were so close to many of the two daughters and his wife were part Steve Gadd, or Peter Erskine is, there’s no
people that created the drum business. of the business, with the entire family cutting corners. it’s all about getting the
They, and the many drummers that came doing everything from pairing the sticks, best end result.
before us, created the brotherhood and to making the mallets, to keeping the MD: Tell us about Armand Zildjian and
sisterhood that make up our “tribe.” You books, to wrapping and shipping the Lennie DiMuzio?
are a vital link to that original generation orders. I remember during one of his JD: Both Armand and Lennie were giants
that created the drum business. I was deliveries to Wurlitzer in 1981 he had in the industry. If you were lucky enough
wondering if we could talk about a few of a pair of American Classic 5A wood tip to work in the Drum Industry when these
them. Let’s start with Vic Firth. Amazingly, sticks and said, “Try these out and tell me legends walked the earth, like me, then
there is a generation of drummers that what you think.” His sticks immediately you know what I’m talking about. They
don’t even know he was an actual person, felt perfectly balanced and weighted were great mentors and role models, not
not to mention a world class musician, with each other. The wood felt heavier just for me, but for everyone who worked
and not just a brand of sticks. and more solid. I got several gigs out at Zildjian and in the Drum Industry.
JD: Talk about a success story. Vic Firth of them and I played pretty hard back They knew the cymbal business better
was the greatest timpanist in the world, then. I remember everything happening than anyone I’ve ever known. Armand
played with the Boston Symphony quickly after that, to the point where we was everything you’ve ever heard about
couldn’t get enough of them. him: kind, charming, funny, mischievous,
I’ll just add that Fast forward to signing Steve

Gadd and Peter Erskine as
generous, intelligent… Lennie was much
the same, which is why they were so
signature artists and taking close. I’m so grateful for all the time I got
one of the things the brand to another level. To
me, Vic was like Avedis and
to spend with both of them. Even after
Lennie left Zildjian in 2003, we remained
I’m most proud of is Armand Zildjian. Technology,
innovation, foresight and just a
close friends until he passed in 2015.
MD: How about Don Lombardi and John
connecting Zildjian great instinct for the business.
Vic would have been the first
Good?
JD: I love and respect them both so
much. Chris Lombardi too. Don and I
with Charlie Watts, one to say he knew nothing
about business, but so much stay in regular contact. John and I were
of his success as a drumstick very close during the time I worked at
Ringo Starr, Hal maker came from being the
incredible musician he was.
DW because it was just Don, John and
myself in the beginning. Don’s son Chris
Blaine, Levon Helm, Truly legendary.
MD: There is yet another
came in about a year or so later when
he graduated from high school. Chris
and Max Weinberg. example of taking everything

you learn through playing
started off working for me in sales, I’m so
proud of what Chris has done running
music to the highest level and the company. John Good is every bit

as passionate and focused about the
drums today as he was back then. He In each of those companies, I felt
had a vision of what he wanted DW
drums to be. John is a funny guy, but
very passionate and focused. Initially, I
like I was contributing something
handled Artist Relations, and John was
making drums. Eventually, as things
and making an impact. I’m proud
grew, John became more of the face of
the artist side of the business. Don has a of my work at all of them.
great sense of humor. One of the funniest
things Don says, even to this day, if he’s
talking with someone I don’t know,
Manager, does a great job, and Danny-san the Paiste family?
he’ll introduce me and say, “This is John
in Japan. But Hagi got it started. I know JD: I know Erik and Kelly Paiste, I knew
DeChristopher, he used to work for me
they made drums in the 60s, but I don’t all the artist relations people back in the
in the early days of Drum Workshop, and
think Hagi was involved at that time. day. Rich Mangicaro and I met in the 80s
the best thing John ever did was leave,
When Yamaha exploded on the scene and have been friends ever since. I knew
because as soon as he left, our business
with their Recording Custom drums, it Andrew Shreve when he took over after
went through the roof!”
Rich left. Great guys. I didn’t know Robert
I’m immensely proud of the work I
or Toomas Paiste, though I’m sure I met
did with all these companies, and what
them at some point. I have great respect
they were able to accomplish while I was
for Paiste. I think they have always made
there. And in DW’s case, after I left!
great instruments.
MD: Did you know ProMark founder Herb
MD: What about Bill Ludwig II?

Brochstein?
JD: “The Chief!” I’m closer with Bill III (his
JD: Yes, I knew Herb, and his son Maury.
son) because we’re the same generation.
When I started at Zildjian in 1989
I met Bill Ludwig Jr. several times at trade
and until 1996, I was the drumstick
shows and wish I got a picture with him.
product marketing manager, so we
When you think of Ringo and the Beatles
were competitors. We were friendly
on the Ed Sullivan Show on February 9,
competitors for the most part, and I had
1964, you can’t help but think of Ludwig
immense respect for the business that he
drums and their rich history.
built. We would always say hello at trade
MD: Tell me about the legendary Roy
shows.
Burns.
MD: Did you know the Calato family of
Louie Bellson and John JD: Everyone knew Roy as a famous
Regal Tip?
drummer and had seen him in the
JD: I don’t know Joe well. By the time I
Rogers catalogs. I met him in the in the
got into the business, his daughters Carol
was Hagi collaborating with Steve Gadd, late 70s or early 80s when he did a clinic
and Cathy were very involved. But I’ve
Rick Marotta, and other drummers. at Wurlitzer, and he was starting Aquarian
spoken with Joe many times over the
Recording Customs turned the drum drumheads and his cymbal springs. He
years. I still keep in touch with Carol and
industry on its ear. There was a time when would call the shop and say, “Hey it’s
Cathy. Wonderful people.
EVERYBODY played those drums! Steve Roy Burns!” Years later, working in the
MD: How about Hagi from Yamaha?
Gadd, Rick Marotta, Peter Erskine, Vinnie industry, I’d always say hello to him at
JD: I have immense respect for what Hagi
Colaiuta, John Robinson… Steve Gadd NAMM shows. He always had a new joke
did in putting Yamaha Drums on the
tells a great story about how he went to tell. Another legend.
map. Greg Crane, their US Artist Relations
to Japan in the 70s and Hagi supplied MD: How about Remo? That’s someone
drums for him, and that else that an entire generation doesn’t
was the beginning of know that is an actual person. “Remo” was
their relationship. Steve a person named Remo Belli.
said to Hagi “My friend JD: Another visionary. Remo had this
Rick Marotta is coming crazy idea of making a plastic drumhead.
to Japan in a couple of Talk about a game-changer. I mean,

weeks, and he’ll need think about what Remo did for the
drums too” and Hagi said, Drum Industry. He was a great drummer
“OK I’ll have drums for himself, and an incredible businessman.
him too.” When Steve got I’m glad I got to know him. The last time
back, he called Rick and I saw him was at PASIC a few months
said, “The tour was great, before he passed and a few years after I’d
and by the way we’re retired from Zildjian, and he asked me if I
both endorsing Yamaha was bored and when I was coming back
drums now.” to work in the drum business.
MD: Did you have any MD: I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask you about
Carter Beauford and John relationship with any of Ron Spagnardi?

JD: The great Ron Spagnardi. He was MD: Let’s talk about your playing and
another one of “founding fathers of the
drum industry.” The man who created
some of your vintage gear?
JD: I don’t know about talking about my
Vic Firth was
Modern Drummer magazine. Ron was
a great guy and real people person;
playing, but let’s talk about my vintage
drums. In 2005, I went on a quest to find
the greatest
I can’t think of Ron without thinking
about the MD Festival. I can picture him
a Gretsch kit like the one my dad bought
me in 1974. I had traded it for a Simmons timpanist in the
sitting at the bar of the Radisson Fairfield kit in the early 1980s and of course
Hotel, where we all stayed for Modern regretted it. So, I found a vintage Gretsch world, played
Drummer’s Festival Weekend. Friday stop sign badge kit in Gold Chrome and
night, he’d be buying drinks for everyone
and holding court. And then on Sunday
Paul Cooper at Gretsch was nice enough
to rewrap it in Midnight Blue Pearl. It
with the Boston
night, after the MD Festival, Ron and
Isabel would host the industry people
looks exactly like the Gretsch kit my dad
bought me in 1974. And that was the
Symphony
and artists at an incredible banquet. He’d
say to me, “C’mon John, you’re Italian.
beginning of me getting the vintage
bug. I was still working for Zildjian at the Orchestra for
Eat!” time and kept the drums in my office and
MD: I know that you are a big Gretsch
guy. Tell me about Fred and Dinah
would tap on them from time to time, but
I wasn’t really playing drums.
over 50 years,
Gretsch.
JD: My relationship with Fred and
When I left Zildjian in 2013, I started
playing again and it was like I was 11
taught at
Dinah began in the early 90s when Tony
Williams was still playing Gretsch. It
again, discovering the instrument all
over again. I had a new-found love and New England
evolved into a great friendship in the late passion for the drums, and part of that
90s when Vinnie started playing Gretsch. was seeking out vintage drums. Now I Conservatory,
They invited me to the factory for a have eight vintage Gretsch sets. Then I
photoshoot with Vinnie in 1998 and that’s
when I met Paul Cooper, who’s in charge
started branching out into other vintage
drums like Rogers, Hayman, Premier, Ajax,
and started
of their drum manufacturing. I consider
them dear friends and it’s no secret how
Kent, a couple of vintage MIJ Stencil kits,
and I recently bought a Camco set. I think
making
much I love their drums.
Other than the original American drum
I’m up to 16 kits. I rotate them and use
different kits for gigs. drumsticks in
companies like Rogers and Slingerland, I I’m sure Charlie Watts had something
feel fortunate to have some connection to do with it. His influence of liking old his basement.
with all the founding fathers of the drum gear rubbed off on me. Whenever we
industry, in some way. I feel fortunate to talked about vintage drums, he’d say, “I
have worked in the business when I did. like the way they made things back then.”
It really was the golden era of the drum I know the drum companies of today
industry, and thankfully many of these make excellent, high-quality drums. I’m and he said that he’s having fun being
people are still around. under no illusion that it’s really about a caretaker of all these vintage books
One of the reasons I started my nostalgia. Vintage drums remind me of until it’s time to let someone else be a
podcast Live From My Drum Room in 2020, a special period of my life. I even use caretaker of them for a while. That hit me,
was to document these important people vintage hardware. for the first time I understood the vintage
now, while we’re all still here. Drummers, MD: I’m not a collector, but I saw a special collector thing.
industry people and friends. on a vintage book collector recently, JD: I feel the same way. My 36-year-
old son plays drums, and both of my
...playing music taught me grandchildren play, so I have enough

drums for each of them when they’re
ready, and I know that someday my
how to work with people, collection will go to a good home.
MD: I watched your podcast on your
compromise, get along and cymbal collection and I was very surprised.
JD: You would think that having worked
work as a team, and be at Zildjian for 24 years, I’d have a huge
collection, but I wasn’t playing drums
professional and respectful. for a lot of that time, so I never got

cymbals. I wish I had! But I have more
than I realized, and I skipped over a lot of
All important things in music stuff in my podcast. I was at Paul Francis’
house a couple of weeks ago and he said,
and in life. “You have more Paiste’s than I thought.”
I started collecting vintage Paiste Giant

The
Legends Collection
Not just another drum book or magazine, it’s Modern Drummer Legends!
Extensive and New In-Depth Interviews • Artist Approved Content
New Song Transcriptions with Artist Insights
Never-Before-Seen Photos • Digital Download Components
Legends Coming Soon:

Billy Cobham • Carmine Appice • Gavin Harrison • Giovanni Hidalgo • Carl Palmer
Cindy Blackman Santana • Dave Weckl • Charlie Watts • Eric Singer • Alex González
Buy from your favorite music retailer Check out more at moderndrummer.com/legends
Beat’s because they’re very unique. I my bandmates for almost 50 years. anyone who wants to get into the drum
also have some original Istanbul K’s and MD: What drummers did you come up business.
vintage A Zildjians too. I’m partial to old listening to? JD: If I had a dime for every time someone
A Zildjians. I still think if you find the right JD: Charlie Watts, Ringo Starr, John asked me that, I could retire! The drum
ones, they’re the most versatile cymbals. Bonham, Keith Moon, Danny Seraphine business has changed a lot from when
MD: Are you a snare drum guy at all? and Hal Blaine had the most influence on I got into it almost 40 years ago. From
JD: I’m becoming one, whether I want me when I started playing in 1972. I was manufacturing, to supply chain and
to or not. As of right now, I have about listening to my sister’s Stones albums. distribution, to how companies market
30 snare drums. Almost all are vintage, Listening to Exile On Main Street and and sell their products, to Artist Relations
and some are very rare and collectable. I other records, made me want to play and product endorsements, to how
have 10 Gretsch snare drums, wood and the drums. When I was 15 or 16, it was consumers make purchasing decisions.
brass shells, including a 24-karat gold Mitch Mitchell, Butch and Jaimoe from The industry is shrinking, not growing
plated snare they offered 50 years ago. I The Allman Brothers, Gary Mallaber with and it’s a crowded and highly competitive
dreamed of owning one and finally found Steve Miller and of course, Jeff Porcaro. market.
one in 2019. I have three or four Ludwig In my late teens I got hip to Steve Gadd, Having said all that, my advice is get
snares, two Rogers Powertone snares Billy Cobham, and Tony Williams. In my a business degree and or some sales
(a wood and brass shell), two Premier 20s, I was really into Terry Bozzio, Vinnie experience. I was fortunate to get into the
snares, a Slingerland Artist Model, a Colaiuta, and Steve Smith. I saw Terry business at a time when being a drummer
Dresden and a Sonor that Vic gave me, with Missing Persons in 1983 and it was and having sales experience was enough,
a Leedy, and some others. I tend to lifechanging. At one point, I had a full but in most instances, that’s no longer the
gravitate toward the same ones for gigs. Roto Tom kit like Terry. I still love him. case. If you get a job in the drum business
MD: How’s your band Grand Theft Audio When I started playing again in 2013, be honest, be humble, and work hard. The
going? I came full circle back to the drummers rest will take care of itself.
JD: It’s great to be playing drums in a that first influenced me when I started
band again. We play Classic Rock, Beatles, playing. I can listen to Charlie, Ringo, John
Stones, Who, Tom Petty… I didn’t realize Bonham, and Keith Moon all day and find Check out John’s
how much I missed playing out until I new ways to appreciate them. drummer profile page, at
joined this band. I’ve known a couple of MD: Let’s conclude with some advice to moderndrummer.com

Gary Chester’s New Breed
Buy from your favorite retailer

check out more at moderndrummer.com
COLLECTOR’S CORNER
Walter G. Howe’s 1930’s Leedy Black Onyx Trap Set

with Sentinel Silhouette Head By Tim Northup
N orthup Drums
Museum is proud to
present a time capsule
drum kit that has
everything including
star power from the
1930’s! Let’s learn about
this beautiful kit and it’s
famous owner.
Walter G. Howe of
Boston, Massachusetts
was a Leedy Drum Artist
with strong ties to the
music scene throughout
New England. Walter was
a graduate of the New
England Conservatory
of Music where he
played with the well
know Conservatory
Orchestra. Later on, he
played under Arthur
Fiedler at the popular
McDowell Club. He also
played for two summers
at the Fabyan House
hotel in the state of New
Hampshire. As he became
a more accomplished
percussionist, he joined
the WBZ Studio Band
at the famous Hotel
Bradford on Tremont
Street in Boston, under the
direction of Oscar Elgart.
After this stint, Howe
joined E.R.A. Orchestra
notable vintage drum collector
under William Dodge. During this time,
Stephen M. Hillman of Boston,
there wasn’t a band who didn’t want
Massachusetts was able to acquire
Walter as their drummer. He was very
this trap set from Walter’s relatives.
popular and always showed up with
The set was in excellent condition.
his Leedy Black Onyx bass drum with
Northup Drums Museum was able to
factory oil painted Indian on a horseback
acquire this rare set from the Hillman
head (Sentinel Silhouette), Black Onyx
family this last year after Stephen’s
Dual snare and matching tom, as well as
passing. The provenance stated here
a variety of traps, Chinese temple blocks,
was provided by the family. The set
etc.
is shown with Walter playing it in a
Walter is also included on the famous
1933 copy of Leedy Topics, issue 24.
Leedy pyralin wrap introduced in
This was a monthly newsletter of
1941 called ”Autograph of the Stars”. It
the time put out by the Leedy drum
featured the autographs of 212 Leedy
company.
endorsers and remains one of the rarest
The newsletter shows Walter
drum finishes of all times.
playing this kit with some added
In June 1998, avid percussionist and
accessories, a full trap table and

temple blocks. Drummers changed out some
of their accessories as time went on, or just for
playing different styles of music.
We are showing it with some different
accessories from the period, but the main part
of the set remains the same. Leedy 14x28 Black
Onyx Standard Bass Drum with red and blue
blinking light kit inside, and the original oil
painted “Sentinel Silhouette” head design (1928-
35). The snare drum is a Leedy first generation
Broadway Dual 5x14 in Black Onyx. The Dual
mechanism is similar to the Ludwig Super
Sensitive snare drum, having two sets of snares,
one on the outside bottom and another set
inside the top of the batter head, giving you a
very crisp snare sound when both are engaged.
The traps and accessories on the bass drum
include a matching Leedy Black Onyx Chinese
style tack head tom with Leedy tom holder. We
see a Leedy professional bass drum pedal with

cymbal clanger and mounted cymbal and a Rare
#303 heavy duty dual cymbal holder holding
large 17” Chinese cymbal and 10” Charleston
deep cup cymbals, and a 4” Greeko cymbal.
Pictured are a Leedy woodblock and two cowbell
holder and a rare Leedy Stick tray which was used
for holding sticks, brushes, and small traps. There
is also a Leedy Bocka-da-bock on the stick tray.
Finally, we have a Leedy lowboy sock cymbal
pedal with 10” Leedy cymbals.
What is wonderful about this set is the
Black Onyx pyralin wrap remains in near mint
condition. It is still crisp, bright, and white; where
many have yellowed over time. If you would like
to learn more about this famous kit and even play
this kit, take a trip the Northup Drums Museum
and visit us at www.northupdrums.com

OUT NOW!
M odern Drummer is spotlighting certain new recordings that have the drums
at the center of their sound. These recordings might be drummer-led, or just
include a high-quality, special, or unique drumming and musical performance
from the drummer and/or musicians in the band. This column will not be
restricted to only recordings, we will also be spotlighting new books and DVD’s
that are being released. We encourage our readers to listen to the recordings that
inspire them and keep looking for new musical avenues to explore. You’ll never
know what new music you might find inspiring! Listen and learn.
Joe Lovano
Foo Fighters Trio Tapestry
But Here We Are Carmen Castaldi drums
RCA Records ECM
Dave Grohl drums
For fans of Joe Lovano’s work
The long awaited and with the Paul Motian Trio, Trio
bittersweet new Foo Fighters Tapestry will be a welcome
CD has arrived. As expected, musical addition to the library.
lyrically, you can hear that Lovano’s new trio is gelling
Dave Grohl (and the band) nicely and is finding their way
have been hurting, how could within the ECM aesthetic.
they not? Musically, this is a Castaldi’s gentle touch on the
slightly harder edged Foos drums, pairs well with Marilyn
record. Drum wise, Dave Grohl Crispell’s piano to create a
(and the rest of the band) spacious bed for Lovano to
are grooving hard. Grohl’s float above. The bassless instrumentation allows the trio to
drumming is ferocious, in the find and explore new paths within the music. Lovano’s sense of
pocket, and the songs are classic Foo Fighters. The drive, the exploration is alive and well.
energy, and the power of the Foo Fighters is a welcome breath
of pure rock and roll.
Darren Johnson
Wild Awake
Todd Cochran Ches Smith drums
Then and Again, Here and Now Diskonife
Sunnyside Records
Michael Carvin drums Trumpeter Darren Johnson
called the right drummer for
The trio of pianist Todd the job. Drummer Ches Smith
Cochran, bassist John Leftwich, interprets Johnson’s playful
and Michael Carvin began music with perfection. Smith is
while Cochran and Carvin not a minimalist nor a basher,
were playing with Bobby and he is neither a newcomer
Hutcherson, and Cochran and nor a seasoned veteran. I hear
Leftwich were playing with his approach as some kind
Freddie Hubbard; And that’s of amalgam of Ed Blackwell
how this record sounds. There and Joey Baron. He weaves
is a deep history between polyrhythmic patterns within the music with a nice touch and
the musicians here. Don’t an earthy sound. Smith leaves space for the other musicians
let the standard repertoire fool you, this trio is painting very and occupies the space that Johnson’s compositions need him
unique music on the canvas that the standards provide. In the to occupy. Listen to Smith and bassist Sean Conly twist around
drum world, Carvin is a legendary teacher, but unfortunately, each other while never stepping on each other toes. The song
he doesn’t appear on enough recordings. His musical scope “Wild Awake” is this band hitting full stride.
is wide, and his explorative drumming is grounded in the jazz
drumming tradition. Listen to Carvin’s bombastic entrance and
melodic solo on “I Got Rhythm,” his relaxed swing on “The Duke,”
and his textural solo on “Invitation.” The whole band really
shines on Hutcherson’s “Little B’s Poem.”

Leon Lee Dorsey deal of time in Japan. Thankfully, Evans called them both, and
Cantaloupe Island they definitely answered the call. To hear the rhythm section of
Mike Clarke drums Evans, Smitty, and Robert Hurst mixing it up with saxophonist
JazzAvenue Records Gary Thomas and trumpeter Nicholas Payton on “The Red
Door,” “Big Small,” and “Feed the Fire” will inspire anyone to look
The legendary Mike Clarke is behind The Red Door.
one of the most conversational
drummers alive. His musical
conversations can change Jeremy Dutton
and combine subjects at the Anyone is Better Than Here
drop of a hat. Mike can take a Jeremy Dutton drums
song into a gutbucket soulful Self Produced
romp, a butt-shakin’ funky stroll, a wide-open broken swing, or
a “where is one” head-shaking fusion of all of the above. With What kind of drumming secret is in the water in Houston Texas?
bassist Leon Lee Dorsey, Clarke has found a rhythm section Sebastian Whittaker, Chris
teammate that can definitely follow the conversation. Together Dave, Eric Harland, Kendrick
with guitarist Russell Malone this trio stretches the beat, swings Scott, and now Jeremy Dutton.
you into bad health, and just makes you smile. Whether Clarke’s Since Jeremy came to New York
conversations are with himself and inside of the groove, or with City he has worked with Vijay
the other musicians in the trio, what he’s saying is always worth Iyer and Gerald Clayton, and
listening to. now he has made his debut as
a bandleader. He composed all
of the music on Anyone is Better
Tony Allen and Adrian Lounge Than Here and played some
18 ridiculous drums. His style
Tony Allen drums shows his place in the lineage
Jazz is Dead of the Houston jazz drummers named above. Dutton plays
with a broken and jagged timeflow, has a funky underpinning
While I hate the name of this to (almost) everything he plays, and he writes dense music
label, I LOVE this new record. that still has a sense of space. His chosen instrumentation and
The legendary drummer Tony orchestration works well and features trumpeter Ambrose
Allen (of Fela Kuti fame) is Akinmushire, saxophonist Ben Wendel, pianist James Francies,
not talked about as much as bassist Matt Brewer, among others.
he should be. A big thanks
to Adrian Younge for putting
Allen’s unique sense of groove DG’z Notebook: My Path To The Groove – Ideas From
on record for one last time. a Beat Collector
This must have been one of Allen’s last recordings, but he David Garibaldi
sounds more alive than ever! If you haven’t checked out Allen’s Hudson Music
one-of-a-kind sense of groove, this is a great place to start. The
horn section snakes around Tony’s drumming with a unique He’s back (actually he never left.) The
sense of loose tightness (or maybe tight looseness.) This music legendary mad professor of drumming
is fertile ground for creative sampling and expressive dancing. has returned with a new tome of
creativity for those of us who have
finally worked through the excellent
Orrin Evans (and butt kicking) Future Sounds (and
The Red Door even for those of us that haven’t gotten
Marvin “Smitty” Smith and Gene Jackson (2 tracks) drums “there” yet.) David Garibaldi is one of the
Smoke Sessions most inspirational, hardworking, and
groundbreaking drumming educators
Pianist Orrin Evans has tapped alive. His teaching materials push our
two of the most popular jazz boundaries, his organizational skills teach us how to learn, and
drummers from the late 80s his presentations are always mind opening, clear, and thorough.
and early 90s to light the fuse DG’z Notebook is no different! In this book, David invites us
on his new record. “Smitty” into his practice room, his personal notebooks, and his mind.
hasn’t recorded much since He shows us (by example) how he learns and invites us into
he played drums on the his creative and learning process. He even offers an update
Tonight Show in Kevin Eubanks’ from his favorite section of Future Sounds. We join David as he
band, and the last I heard continues to build his voice, his musical understanding, and
Philadelphian Gene Jackson gets closer to his creative goals. This is a journey worth taking.
had been spending a great
July 2023 Modern Drummer 73

EYE CANDY
Gil Moore’s 1970s Tama Imperialstar Triumph Tour Kit
S hown here is the 1970s era Tama

Imperialstar kit, finished in a black
gloss PVC wrap, that Gil Moore used
in the early days of Triumph’s touring
success. The kit features shells made of
Luan (also known as Philippine Mahoga-
ny.) The shells were coated on the inside
by a Zola coating (sometimes referred
to as Granitone.) This coating material
was designed to provide enhanced high
frequencies and attack. All the toms are
single headed concert toms, including
the 6 x 8, 7 x 10, 8 x 12, 9 x 13, 10 x 14,
10 x 15, 11 x 15 and 13 x 16 suspended
toms, and 16 x 16 and 18 x 18 floor
toms. The bass drums measure 14 x 22,
while the metal snare is
5 1/2 x 14 model.
This comes from the

book Crash: The World’s
Greatest Drum Kits,
available at
moderndrummer.com

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On Review PDP Mapa Burl Drums and Gretsch Ridgeland Snares

THE WORLD’S #1 DRUM COMMUNITY SINCE 1977 JULY 2023

Vince Wilburn Jr.

Jonathan “Ginger” Hamilton

A Different View with

In 1883, Friedrich Gretsch opened a music

Painstakingly constructed with over a century

28 JONATHAN “GINGER” HAMILTON 34 VINCE WILBURN JR.

44 ROCK AND JAZZ CLINIC

46 ROCK PERSPECTIVES Exercises in

By Bobby Rondinelli • Increase Rhythmic Awareness

56 Style And Analysis

10 NEW AND NOTABLE

Why is One Never Enough? Founder Ronald Spagnardi 1943–2003

Publisher/CEO David Frangioni

A s a self-confessed “snare drum

@ModernDrummer modern_drummer @modern_drummer

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D utch drummer Bas Prins

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Your gear is critical to your success, so call Laura

M usic should not be a contest. The great Hungarian

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T his year, Pacific Drums and Percussion

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T he Gretsch badge says “Drum Makers Since 1883.” OK, that’s

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and “Thirty-Three.” We were covered really tired.

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Jimmy Chamberlin’s 2023 Set-Up

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I t all started in a Southeast London church for

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and Chris Johnson as

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David Phillips www.music-images.co.uk

In terms of learning, you can literally take you from

out and ﬁnd a voice that in a day, every production

would use all 30, there’s

Modern Drummer July 2023 33

F or everyone who might not know, Vince