INTERFACES

Dr APJ Abdul Kalam

in Conversation with
Neharika Vohra and V Venkata Rao

N
eharika Vohra — Dr Kalam, our interest is in looking at the role of tech-
nology in the overall developmental context. In the current economic sce-
nario, what are your thoughts on the role of technology? On the one hand,
even after fifty years of independence, while we still do not have enough water,
roads, food, and education for our people, on the other hand, we are spending large
amounts on technology. Is this the best way to apportion our public spending?

Abdul Kalam — Yes, indeed. Technology is important for the all-round develop-
ment of any country—in fact, technology needed for sustainable development has
to be given the highest priority. However, the current economic situation needs a
new thinking. When the world market is under difficulty, particularly in terms of
purchasing power, India faces the challenge of activating the development of 6,00,000
villages. PURA (Providing Urban Amenities in Rural Areas) can facilitate three kinds
of connectivity—physical, electronic, and knowledge—which together will enhance
the economic connectivity for the cluster and generate large scale employment.

Neharika Vohra — Do you think India is satisfactorily pursuing technology?

Abdul Kalam — As far as technology is con-

cerned, the real resources are generated in our Technology is important
engineering colleges, particularly the IITs—
for the all-round
in fact they are the birth place of science and
technology. The technological skills devel- development of any
oped here finally take different shapes. They country—in fact,
THEMES may be used in agriculture for agricultural
technology needed for
Technology production, particularly for producing high
yield variety of agriculture seeds—a step that sustainable development
Space Programme has actually led to the ‘green revolution.’ To- has to be given the highest
Chandrayaan day, the 210 tonnes of food that we produce is priority. However, the
because of the agricultural science trans-
Creative Leadership current economic situation
formed into technology. Similarly, if you take
2020 Vision the space programme, today, for reaching out needs a new thinking.
Sustainable Development to our 6,00,000 villages, we have got commu-

VIKALPA • VOLUME 34 • NO 1 • JANUARY - MARCH 2009 61

nication satellites, with nearly 150 will see to what extent it has attacked
transponders in the geocentric orbit If you look at the budget a large tribal population in many
and remote sensing satellites in the allocation, it is only parts of our country. In fact, for ma-
polar orbit. So, on one side, while our laria, we do have medicines for re-
space science and technology connect
Rs 4,000 crore for space covery. What is needed is a vaccine
the country and the world, on the programmes, whereas it is for its prevention. We will have to de-
other side, remote sensing satellites about Rs 60,000 crore for sign and develop malaria vaccine and
enrich us on our resources—water re- there is government funding for that.
rural development. So,
sources, geological resources, and Similarly, there is the need to dis-
geographical conditions, e.g., telling what is important is to cover anti-HIV vaccine. It is among
us about the intensity and direction bring about a change in the priorities of life sciences for which
of the cyclones—fulfilling the societal the approach. IIMs should although funds are available, it will
requirements. Nuclear science gives still take some time to develop. It is a
nuclear technology for generating offer a management worldwide problem. On the contrary,
power. Radiation therapy for cancer solution to the malaria is our problem, and we will
treatment is also an outcome of nu- government so that the have to do something about it.
clear science. There are many more
such contributions of technology in
entire 60,000 crore is Venkata Rao — What in your opin-
diverse fields. In the IT industry, a appropriately spent. ion are those few key elements that
battery of young population, all would help India become a leader in
young graduates from various aca- making original contributions to
technology?
demic institutions have facilitated software exports
worth $ 50 bn. Further, we have all been witness to the Abdul Kalam — We should focus on the following ar-
big revolution in the medical science in the form of in- eas:
ventions such as angiography, angioplasty, X-ray, scan-
ning, etc. Thus, in every area—be it the medical science • Basic and applied sciences that would reduce the
or agriculture science, space science, atomic energy, or technology gap in future
any other field—technology is playing an important role • Development of high yield variety seeds for enhanc-
for service of humanity, particularly in India. ing our average agricultural yield by at least 3-4 times
• Development of technologies related to solar power
Neharika Vohra — I completely agree with that. My production, particularly high-efficiency photovoltaic
question is not whether technology is useful. It is, in- cell (50% efficiency) using carbon nano tube
deed. But, when we have limited re- • Convergence of information, com-
sources at our disposal, should we munication, and bio-technology
In a globalized economy,
not be thinking of what technology and bringing about a revolution
we need to invest in? For example, people have to move from both in information technology and
there are possibly more deaths due one corner to another. medical technology.
to malaria than due to cancer in our
Instead of forcibly Neharika Vohra — As you said, with
country. Moreover, more productive
human time is lost when people are retaining talent in the the help of communication satellites
down with malaria for, say 20 days, country, India should and remote sensing, we have con-
than there is possibly from many actually facilitate scientists nected villages. But that connection
other diseases. But, rich people’s dis- is very different from the connection
eases, such as cancer and heart ail-
and technologists from the of roads. And, my question is, if we
ments, draw more attention! developed countries to have a certain amount of money,
would it not be advisable to spend it
Abdul Kalam — Do you mean to say
come and work in our
preferably on roads than on connect-
that cancer is a rich people’s disease? laboratories. ing the villages through satellite net-
Actually, if you visit hospitals, you work?

62 INTERVIEW
Abdul Kalam — Even if there are cles have been developed, space
roads, there may not be cars to ply Chandrayaan is a crafts have been developed, techno-
on them. One can say, why should combination of logy to launch communication satel-
we travel by car? The issue is not to lites and remote sensing satellites,
have either this or that. We need both.
technological excellence, have been developed.
If you look at the budget allocation, creative leadership, and a
It was the vision of the great Vikram
it is only Rs 4,000 crore for space pro- lot of experience. There Sarabhai, supported by Jawaharlal
grammes, whereas it is about Rs
has been a planned and Nehru and Homi Bhabha, which
60,000 crore for rural development.
systematic development of gave us the opportunity to work on
So, what is important is to bring
the space programme. The pro-
about a change in the approach. IIMs technology—launch
gramme was aimed at carrying de-
should offer a management solution vehicles have been velopmental messages to the homes
to the government so that the entire
developed, space crafts all over the country, especially in the
60,000 crore is appropriately spent.
6 lakh villages, by leap-frogging
have been developed,
Neharika Vohra — How can we help many traditional routes. The pro-
the science talent of India remain in technology to launch gramme also aimed at surveying the
India to contribute to the Indian communication satellites natural resources of the country so
economy? and remote sensing that they could be harnessed to ben-
efit our people. Many in India must
Abdul Kalam — In a globalized satellites, have been have considered these objectives an
economy, people have to move from developed. unattainable dream in the early ’60s
one corner to another. Instead of for-
when the space programme was
cibly retaining talent in the country,
born. We, however, along with many
India should actually facilitate scientists and technolo-
of our colleagues, saw these aims as a vision, real and
gists from the developed countries to come and work in
attainable. What followed was a shared mission. Every
our laboratories.
person in ISRO believes that they are born to realize all
Venkata Rao — You have already mentioned about the that space technology can offer to the country and its
strides that we have made in space research and other people.
areas. In the context of the recent excitement about
Venkata Rao — Can you elaborate on creative leader-
Chandrayaan, my question is an obvious one. With your
ship? Coming from the field of management, we would
close association and long experience in that area, in your
like to know a little more about it.
assessment, what are the reasons for the success of
Chandrayaan? We hear that everything has gone as per Abdul Kalam — A creative leader generally has certain
schedule. Even the riskiest of the manoeuvres were per- unique characteristics. He is a visionary; he is coura-
fect and all that has been achieved at a reasonably low geous, not afraid of failures; and he knows how to man-
cost. What is your assessment of the age success and failure. As an example,
project? If it has done very well, what when Dr. Vikram Sarabhai started
A creative leader generally
do you think are the reasons for its IIM, nobody knew why such an in-
success? has certain unique stitute was required. He was the per-
characteristics. He is a son to have started the Indian Space
Abdul Kalam — Chandrayaan is a
Research Organization. He was a
combination of technological excel- visionary; he is
creative leader with a vision.
lence, creative leadership, and a lot courageous, not afraid of
of experience. The ISRO (Indian Venkata Rao — Can you tell us spe-
failures; and he knows
Space Research Organization) pro- cifically what kind of leadership has
gramme started in 1963. There has how to manage success gone as an input into the
been a planned and systematic devel- and failure. Chandrayaan Project?
opment of technology—launch vehi-

VIKALPA • VOLUME 34 • NO 1 • JANUARY - MARCH 2009 63

Abdul Kalam — Chandrayaan did Abdul Kalam — In a multiproject en-
not happen in one day. It is the cul- In a multiproject vironment, many technologies are
mination of the launch vehicle tech- environment, many developed simultaneously. During
nology, space science technology, the technology denial regime, ISRO
and their operationalization. There
technologies are had initiated partnerships with the
are about nine communication satel- developed simultaneously. academia and the industry. This cul-
lites and about eleven remote sens- During the technology ture of working together, in my as-
ing satellites in the orbit. All these sessment, has helped ISRO to give a
denial regime, ISRO had
capabilities were built over the last cost-effective solution of outstanding
few decades. Chandrayaan is the net initiated partnerships with quality. The accumulated experience
result of this and the leadership qual- the academia and the and operationalization of simultane-
ity. Excellence in technology has industry. This culture of ous multiple programmes have also
come out of a long experience of the helped in bringing down the cost. On
leaders. Dr. Madhavan Nair, the cur- working together, in my one side, communication satellites
rent Chairman, ISRO, has contributed assessment, has helped are launched; on another side, remote
in terms of guiding the team towards ISRO to give a cost- sensing satellites are launched. The
technological excellence and has also launch vehicle is the same with dif-
ensured that the organization facili-
effective solution of ferent capacities and proven tech-
tates it. He has provided creative outstanding quality. nologies. For instance, Chandrayaan
leadership. This fusion of leadership was launched in the PSLV, which has
and technological excellence has led a record of successful launches. In
to the excellence in performance. fact, it has even proved to be commercially viable with
a number of launches carried out not only for our coun-
Venkata Rao — You have used a nice phrase-- manage-
try but for other countries as well. Today, we have
ment of success as well as management of failure—both
around twenty spacecrafts in the orbit.
are necessary. In our language, we use the term, ‘risk
management’—the ability to foresee failure. Has any- Venkata Rao — Apart from the long-term deals, do we
thing like that happened in space projects? see any short-term commercial gains through the suc-
cess of such projects like Chandrayaan and the similar
Abdul Kalam — One can foresee failure in a multiple
ones?
system. I have not come across a leader who has suc-
ceeded every time. Real leaders defeat the problem and Abdul Kalam — In Chandrayaan, eleven experiments
succeed. He is not afraid of failures; otherwise, he would are going to be conducted. When the moon impact probe
not be successful. As I earlier mentioned, he has certain landed there, it had two instruments; at present, nine
characteristics — he should have courage; he should instruments are orbiting on board Chandrayaan. So, for
know how to manage success or failure; he should have a few years, it will continue to send data nationally and
passion and a vision, and, more im- internationally. Now, to answer your
portantly, the guts to travel on a path question, Chandrayaan has strategic
that nobody has earlier traversed. A I don’t consider Moon significance and that is why it was all
successful leader creates a new path Mission as a single entity. the more important to urgently hoist
for himself. our flag on the moon. Where will we
In the next 30-40 years,
go from here? I don’t consider Moon
Venkata Rao — What about cost op-
Earth, Moon, and Mars Mission as a single entity. In the next
timization? We have learnt that the
would together make a 30-40 years, Earth, Moon, and Mars
amount of money that has gone into
would together make a single com-
the Moon Mission is really very mini- single complex. And, that
plex. And, that will have strategic and
mal. What kind of creative steps have will have strategic and economic importance.
been taken to ensure that kind of cost-
efficiency?
economic importance.
Neharika Vohra — What is the stra-

64 INTERVIEW
tegic importance of Earth, Moon, and that? Or am I even right in saying
Mars? There is nothing wrong in this?

Abdul Kalam — It has been proved

working abroad. There are Abdul Kalam — A poet had said,
that there is water in Mars. And, 23mn Indians throughout “Cross the ocean to acquire knowl-
wherever there is water, a habitat is the world. In fact, in some edge and wealth.” There is nothing
created. Any one or two nations can wrong in working abroad. There are
places, they are in
say that the planet belongs to them— 23 mn Indians throughout the world.
Our Mars or our Moon! Then, there majority. We create 3 mn In fact, in some places, they are in ma-
is a possibility of the presence of He- graduates per year. Out of jority. We create 3 mn graduates per
lium 3 in the moon, which is believed year. Out of that, a few thousands
that, a few thousands
to be one of the key sources of power going abroad should not bother us.
generation. Naturally, therefore, an going abroad should not Eventually, some of them do come
abundance of Helium 3 can make the bother us. back because of the umbilical connec-
Moon a strategic place. That is the tivity, their close ties with the fam-
reason I don’t consider Earth, Moon, ily. They come and enrich the family
and Mars separately. All the three together are of strate- and the country with their acquired knowledge and cul-
gic and economic importance. ture.

Venkata Rao — Now, deviating from the Moon Mis- The only point I want to make is that the way we go
sion, can you throw some light on the strategic implica- abroad, the foreign scholars, scientists, and students
tions of India signing the Non-Proliferation Treaty should also come and study here. That would be true
(NPT)? globalization. For globalization, one of the management
principles is to be competitive. How does competitive-
Abdul Kalam — In NPT, India is not a signatory. With ness come? The developed nations remain competitive
respect to India-US nuclear pact, India has a certain by producing quality products in a cost-effective man-
number of uranium-based nuclear reactors. Secondly, ner and making it available in the market at the right
India does not have an adequate uranium reserve while time. The developing countries are also doing it. In fact,
it has the second largest reserve in thorium. But tho- Indians have started industries abroad. The second larg-
rium is not a fissile material; it has to be transformed est industry in the UK is started by Indians.
into one. Nuclear scientists have developed many tech-
nologies including fast breeder reactors. However, it may Neharika Vohra — The point that I want to make is:
take a decade for India to have a thorium-based nuclear Why is it that while a project is underway in India, e.g.,
power plant. Till then, we will have to power the ura- when a bridge or a metro is being constructed such as
nium-based nuclear reactor. The pact the one in Bangalore right now, the
will facilitate India to buy uranium whole area is in an absolute mess
from other countries. We don’t have an while in countries like Singapore, one
appropriate research does not even realize that such a large
Neharika Vohra — Another impor-
tant issue is that while we have a lot
environment either in the project is underway?
of science talent, they don’t seem to R & D labs, science labs, Abdul Kalam — Singapore does not
be working for us. They work for labs have anything of its own. As far as
or in the management
all across the world, which may be India is concerned, you may be see-
institutes. Overall, the ing the negative side of the story. In
accepted considering that science is
not the property of a single country. research content is very Bangalore, metro system manage-
But since we train them, we feel that low in our country. One ment is working. There is nothing
we don’t seem to be getting any ad- wrong in buying technology from
solution is: Start valuing elsewhere. You should not reinvent
vantage of the talent that actually be-
longs to us. So, what do we do about science and research. the wheel. Technology which is not
available has to be developed. If we

VIKALPA • VOLUME 34 • NO 1 • JANUARY - MARCH 2009 65

talk of competitiveness, India today scientists or reputed management re-
is at No.143 which means 142 nations Parents recommend their searchers work with the students,
are above us. If we want to be com- children to go for scholars, and collaborate in research.
petitive, science will have to develop, They should not merely be adminis-
but not necessarily the technology.
management, engineering trators. Only then it would be possi-
You can actually buy technology, but or medicine because they ble. Secondly, researchers should be
unless you develop science, you can- want to protect them assured of the employment potential.
not be in the list of top ten nations. Parents recommend their children to
against uncertainties. So,
go for management, engineering or
Neharika Vohra — One of the things whether it is science or medicine because they want to pro-
we always hear is that the culture in
any other field, there tect them against uncertainties. So,
many of the labs is such that people
should be assured career whether it is science or any other
are not able to contribute as much as
field, there should be assured career
they can. I think, we possibly face opportunities. opportunities. These are the two
similar issues even at the academic
things that can improve the scenario.
institutes. We don’t seem to be car-
rying out as much research as we should be doing. What Venkata Rao — Management education is very popu-
has helped you in being a researcher? lar in India. However, some of the major scientific
achievements of India have not been facilitated by pro-
Abdul Kalam — I believe that we don’t have an appro-
fessional managers. Is there a scope for professional man-
priate research environment either in the R & D labs,
agers and accomplished scientists to work together?
science labs, or in the management institutes. Overall,
the research content is very low in our country. One so- Abdul Kalam — I have seen the evolution of natural
lution is: Start valuing science and management systems in many pro-
research. grammes of ISRO, DRDO (Defence
As Project Manager or Research and Development Organi-
I will give you a small example. In
Project Director, my task zation), and the Department of
1954, the first President of India, Mr.
Atomic Energy. For example, (a) they
Rajendra Prasad had sent a letter to was to handle a new
have a unique transparency in re-
Sir C V Raman saying that India was mission, a new project, views of programmes; (b) they are
very happy to honour him with
Bharat Ratna. He was therefore in-
and take a pioneering not afraid of failures; (c) they have

vited to come to Rashtrapati Bhawan move each time—whether evolved a management system for
meeting the needs of failure and suc-
on January 23, to receive the coveted it was SLV3 or Agni or cess of programmes. Management
Award. Sir C V Raman wrote back to
nuclear weaponization. schools of India should evolve na-
the President thanking him for the
wonderful offer, however regreting For Presidency, a tradition tional techno-logy management sys-
tem.
his inability to attend the ceremony. was already set—I was the
The reason for not accepting the in- XIth President. I accepted Venkata Rao — What has helped you
vitation was that he was guiding a as a researcher at a personal level and
Ph.D. scholar, whose thesis was to be
the Presidential offer
also at the organizational level?
seen thoroughly and approved be- because I thought I would
fore his submission deadline on Janu- Abdul Kalam — Personally, I ben-
be able to market the
ary 31. That was the level of dedica- efited from working with three great
tion to the cause of research!
2020 Vision—to transform human beings—A visionary, Prof
India into an Vikram Sarabhai; a technological
In fact, both for the scientist and the leader, Prof Satish Dhawan; and the
management leader, an appropriate
economically developed
founder of the nuclear fuels centre
culture is very important. And that nation by the year 2020. (NFC), Prof Brahma Prakash, who
would be possible only when senior taught me management in nobility. I

66 INTERVIEW
was fortunate to have the guidance released by the Prime Minister on
of this rare combination. A developed India by August 2, 1996, we had numerous op-
2020 or even earlier is not portunities to interact with many oth-
Venkata Rao — Finally, we would
ers about a vision for India. We had
want to know the key similarities and a dream. It need not even the benefit of various inputs ranging
differences between being a Project be a mere aspiration in the from encouraging suggestions for
Manager in a scientific organization
minds of many Indians. It specifications to pessimistic com-
and being the President of India.
ments about the inability of systems
is a mission we can all
Abdul Kalam — As Project Manager to act on anything focused and long
or Project Director, my task was to
take up and accomplish. term. We travelled widely to interact
handle a new mission, a new project, with different sections of people in
and take a pioneering move each time—whether it was variegated parts of the country and
SLV3 or Agni or nuclear weaponization. For Presidency, also reflected on the imperatives for India in a changing
a tradition was already set—I was the XIth President. I world.
accepted the Presidential offer because I thought I would
Venkata Rao — Are you really satisfied that you ac-
be able to market the 2020 Vision—to transform India
complished the objective of marketing the 2020 Vision?
into an economically developed nation by the year 2020.
I was in a position to do certain innovations, e.g., PURA Abdul Kalam — Yes, we have been doing our part of
for rural development. In all my actions, there was an marketing. While we are proud and happy that the
integrated approach—connectivity of multiple govern- dreams of many Indians in the agricultural, scientific,
ment departments, states, industry, agriculture, and cultural, and social fields have come true, the vision of a
service sector. That revealed the advantages and the prosperous India without poverty, an India strong in
problems. trade and commerce, and in many fields of science and
technology, an India with innovative industries and with
Venkata Rao — Was this 2020 Vision your own?
health and education for all, has remained just partially
Abdul Kalam — India 2020 Vision cannot be the vision realized. Moreover, I feel, the GDP growth should be at
of one individual. It so happened that I was the Chair- least 10 per cent, which at present is 7.5 per cent. If we
man of the Technology Information maintain a 10 per cent GDP growth
Forecasting and Assessment Council for 10 years, India will definitely
(TIFAC), which was involved in the IIMs are not creating transform into a developed nation by
preparation of the Technology Mis- 2020. People below the poverty line
managers. They are
sion 2020, planning a roadmap for have to be lifted up. And, we firmly
transforming India from the present
creating leaders in various believe that India can reach the sta-
status of a developing nation into a fields — for various tus of a developed country by 2020.
developed one. India 2020 Vision organizations and The Indian people can rise well above
emerged as an outcome of this forum. the present poverty levels and con-
industries, and for the tribute more productively to the
About 500 experts with their unique
experiences in industry, academia, nation. Some of them country. Moreover, India can have
laboratories, and government admi- become creative leaders. considerable technological strengths,
nistration were deeply involved in so crucial for its strategic, economic,
What is most important is and trade-related advantages. A de-
the exercise. Experts and socially
aware persons also participated. that they should work with veloped India by 2020 or even earlier
About 5,000 people contributed indi- integrity and succeed with is not a dream. It need not even be a
rectly through responses to question- mere aspiration in the minds of many
integrity. That is the
naires and other inputs. Subse- Indians. It is a mission we can all take
quently, while the teams deliberated
strength of a real creative up and accomplish.
on various issues and the draft re- leader.
Neharika Vohra — What will be
ports, and later when the report was

VIKALPA • VOLUME 34 • NO 1 • JANUARY - MARCH 2009 67

your message to the managers who are readers of fields — for various organizations, industries, and for
Vikalpa? the nation. Some of them become creative leaders. What
is most important is that they should work with integ-
Abdul Kalam — I personally believe that IIMs are not rity and succeed with integrity. That is the strength of a
creating managers. They are creating leaders in various real creative leader.

Dr. A P J Abdul Kalam, was the Eleventh President of India, Neharika Vohra is a Professor in the Organizational Behaviour
serving from 2002 to 2007. Specialized in Aeronautical Engi- Area at the Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad. A
neering from the Madras Institute of Technology, Dr. Kalam Ph. D. from the University of Manitoba, she has been a Visit-
is one of the most distinguished scientists of India with the ing Professor in the same University and has also taught at
unique honour of receiving honorary doctorates from 30 uni- the Xavier Institute of Management, Bhubaneswar. She spe-
versities and institutions. He has been awarded the coveted cializes in social psychology and cross-cultural psychology.
civilian awards - Padma Bhushan (1981) and Padma Her academic and research interests include leadership and
Vibhushan (1990) and the highest civilian award Bharat Ratna gender issues in organizations; management across cultures;
(1997). He worked as an Engineer with DRDO and ISRO and challenges in the growth of small business; and leadership in
is popularly known as the Missile Man of India for his work on educational institutions. She has published several papers in
development of ballistic missile and space rocket technology. international and national journals and presented several pa-
Dr. Kalam made significant contribution as Project Director to pers in conferences and seminars. She has been a recipient of
the evolution of ISRO’s launch vehicle programme, particu- the Award for Excellence in Teaching and the Young Psycholo-
larly the PSLV configuration for two decades and thereafter gist Award. She is currently the Editor of Vikalpa: A Journal for
took up the responsibility of developing Indigenous Guided Decision Makers.
Missiles at Defence Research and Development Organization
e-mail: [email protected]
(DRDO). He was responsible for the development and
operationalization of AGNI and PRITHVI Missiles and for
V Venkata Rao specializes in Operations Research, Operations
building indigenous capability in critical technologies through
Management, and Computer-based Information Systems. He
networking of multiple institutions. He was the Scientific Ad-
is currently a Professor in the Computer and Information Sys-
viser to Defence Minister and Secretary, Department of De-
tems Group at the Indian Institute of Management, Ahmeda-
fence Research & Development from July 1992 to December
bad and the Chairperson of the Fellow Programme in
1999. During this period, he led the weaponization of strate-
Management. He has obtained a Bachelors in Mechanical En-
gic missile systems and the Pokhran-II nuclear tests in collabo-
gineering from Andhra University, an M.Tech. in Industrial
ration with the Department of Atomic Energy, which made
Engineering from I.I.T. Kanpur, an M.S. in Operations Re-
India a Nuclear Weapon State. In his literary pursuit, four of
search, and a Ph.D. in Industrial and Systems Engineering,
his books, Wings of Fire, India 2020 - A Vision for the New Mil-
both from the Georgia Institute of Technology. He has pub-
lennium, My Journey, and Ignited Minds - Unleashing the Power
lished papers, developed software, and written cases in his
within India, have become household names in India and
areas of specialization.
among the Indian nationals abroad.
e-mail: [email protected]
e-mail: [email protected]

Technology made large populations possible; large

populations now make technology indispensable
— Joseph Wood Krutch

68 INTERVIEW