An Interview With Avenue Capital's Marc Lasry

May 2014 EVALUATION Page 1
EVALUATION:
Investing Insights brought to you by the Students of NYU Stern
LETTER FROM THE EDITORS INSIDE THE ISSUE

As we look around the halls of NYU Stern, we cant help but
notice that things are looking pretty good first-year students are
eager to bound off to their summer internships and second-year
students are preparing to be gainfully employed again. All
industries are hiring, including marketing, consulting, finance, real
estate, and the all-important tech 2.0. While the economic glass is
half-full at the moment, we cant help but imagine a time when it
will again be half-empty, or worse yet, emptied by half. This
brings us to the theme of the second issue of EVALUATION:
Bankruptcy and Distressed Debt. Why focus on an industry that
is currently out of favor, you may ask? After all, the U.S. corporate
default rate is near historic lows, the stock market is up 112% over
the last five years (ex dividends), and the largest U.S. bankruptcy of
all time (Lehman Brothers) occurred more than five years ago, a
distant memory in financial time. In the spirit of being contrarian,
wed like to consider a time where all not is well. And more
importantly, when that time comes wed like our readers to be
prepared!

It is our pleasure to introduce the second issue of Sterns student-
run investment newsletter, covering a range of issues and topics in
the bankruptcy and distressed investing space, an interview with a
young alumnus, and some student submitted stock ideas. We hope
that you enjoy, and as always, take away a few new ideas.

Finally, we would like to thank our interviewees for their time
and contributions, as this would not be possible without their
valuable insights. With that, happy reading!

Your EV Editors,

Bryce & Brian

Marc Lasry:
Chairman, Avenue Capital
GroupPage 2

Dr. Edward Altman:
Bankruptcy ExpertPage 5

Julia Bykhovskaia:
BulwarkBay Investment
GroupPage 8

Nick Wells: Young Alumnus
on the Buy-SidePage 11

Stuart Kovenksy: Co-
Founder, Onex Credit
PartnersPage 15

Allan Brown: Co-Founder,
Concordia AdvisorsPage
17

Max Holmes: Founder,
Plainfield Asset
ManagementPage 20

Stern Investment Idea
ContestPage 23

Student Investment Write-
Ups: URBN, ULTA, and
AAPLPage 26

Issue 2
May 2014
Glass half empty or half full?

Marc Lasry Chairman and Co-Founder of Avenue Capital Group

Mr. Lasry is the Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and a Co-Founder of the Avenue
Capital Group. Distressed investing has been the focus of his professional career for
over 30 years. Prior to co-founding Avenue Capital, Mr. Lasry managed capital for
Amroc Investments, the predecessor firm associated with Robert Bass Group. Prior
to that, Mr. Lasry was Co-Director of the Bankruptcy and Corporate Reorganization
Department at Cowen & Company and before that, he served as Director of the
Private Debt Department at Smith Vasiliou Management Company. Mr. Lasry also
clerked for the Honorable Edward Ryan, former Chief Bankruptcy Judge of the
Southern District of New York. Mr. Lasry received a B.A. in History from Clark
University (1981) and a J.D. from New York Law School (1984).
Marc Lasry

EVALUATION (EV): Mr. Lasry, thanks for
taking the time to sit down with us. You
started out at New York Law School. How did
you first get into distressed debt investing?

Marc Lasry (ML): Well, when I was in law school
I actually didnt think I was going to be doing
investments. At that point I thought I would be a
tax lawyer. I ended up clerking for the Chief
Bankruptcy Judge in the Southern District. From
there, I ended up working for a bankruptcy law
firm, and then, from there, I got involved on the
investment side. So it took a few steps to get into
investing.

EV: You managed money for Robert Bass for a
few years before going off on your own how
was that experience and what did you learn
there?

ML: I managed money for the Robert Bass Group
from 1988 to 1990. It was a phenomenal
experience. It was the first time I was actually
running money in the context of a portfolio.
There, I got to meet a lot of different individuals
and look at a number of different companies. It
was also a time when the U.S. bankruptcy laws
were changing. Moreover, peoples view of
bankruptcy was changing. At that time, most
people wanted to stay away, whereas today
people view bankruptcy as an opportunity.

EV: From there you went on to start Amroc
Investments and Avenue Capital Group. Could
you speak a bit about the process of starting
up a fund, raising money, etc.?

ML: I dont think the process of starting up a
fund has really changed all that much. At the
time when you do it, everyone always tells you
how difficult it is, how impossible it is. And the
reality is that few people actually end up
succeeding. So every person who starts a fund
believes that theyll be the exception. And frankly
at that time I did too. Ultimately, though, the way
that you grow and succeed is to put up good
numbers. And if you can do that, then I think
things generally take care of themselves.

EV: In distressed investing, you are
inherently buying things that are broken,
unloved, or unwanted is it important to
have a contrarians mindset to be successful
in this business?

ML: Its not necessarily a contrarians mindset
per se. That said, we are buying things, or
investing in situations, that other people dont
want to invest in. The goal is to buy from people

who are non-economic sellers. And ultimately,
your credit work or credit analysis needs to be a
little bit better than someone elses (either the
sellers or other buyers). On the distressed side,
theres a bias against companies that are in
trouble. Heres an example: if someone says
theyre buying a bond at par, the follow up
question is, whats the coupon? If some says
theyre buying a bond at 60, the follow up
question is, why not 50? People tend to have a
natural bias against something that has traded
down significantly.

EV: How has the distressed investing
landscape changed since you first got started
in the mid-1980s? Given the influx of capital
into the space, it is more difficult to find
attractive risk-adjusted returns today?

ML: Frankly I think its always difficult to find
returns its always hard to make money. And
everyone believes that the current environment
youre in is somehow harder than it was in the
past. Im not sure thats always the case. I will
say, however, that the biggest difference
between today versus when we first got started
is that back then the risk free rate was
somewhere between 4% and 8%. Today, the risk
free rate is 25 bps. So, for that reason, today is
actually a pretty difficult time because people
expect you to make 8%-12%, which is about 40x
the risk free rate. Compare this to say ten years
ago, when if you made just 5x the risk free rate,
that was a 20% return.

EV: Could you speak a bit about the
investment process at Avenue Capital? What
are a few things that you tend to focus on
when evaluating opportunities?

ML: Well I think the most important thing we
look at, particularly when were looking at a
company from a credit standpoint, is the
liquidation value. Should the company exist as a
going concern, and can the company turn things
around? So, the first question to answer is, are
we protected from losing money? But we cant
stop there because in addition to being
protected on the downside, you also need to
believe that you can generate returns.

EV: Could you give an example of that?

ML: In terms of something going on today, look
at TXU. In the case of Oncor (TXUs regulated
electricity distribution and transmission
business), we started buying the bonds in the
low 60s, and today those bonds are trading in
the high 90s to par. Our goal is to invest in
situations where were coming in at a 3x - 5x
EBITDA multiple, and believe that well be
covered in the case of a liquidation scenario.
Then well make money as the market re-adopts
what weve invested in, and the value gets back
to a normalized 6x - 10x EBITDA multiple.

EV: Given the low corporate default
environment in the U.S. right now, where are
you finding interesting investment
opportunities?

ML: Well, the fact that you have a low default
environment doesnt mean that there arent a lot
of corporate restructurings going on. So there is
still a fair amount to do in the U.S., though I
would say that theres definitely more activity in
Europe. Were focused on northern Europe as
opposed to southern Europe, but thats mainly a
If someone says theyre buying a bond at par, the follow up question is, whats
the coupon? If some says theyre buying a bond at 60, the follow up question is,
why not 50? People tend to have a natural bias against something that has
traded down significantly.

function of the legal systems. Were looking at a
lot of companies, typically those with hard
assets. Some examples weve invested in over
there are Punch Taverns and Travelodge.

EV: Whats the best investment youve ever
made? How easy or difficult was it to pull the
trigger?

ML: Probably one of the best investments weve
made was right after the crisis, buying Ford
secured bank debt in the low 30s and 40s. Within
about a year and a half, the debt traded up to par.
Since it happened so quickly the IRR was very
high. But it was extremely hard to make that
investment. We started buying it in the 70s, and
kept buying as prices fell60, 50, 40all the way
down. And each time we bought, the market was
telling us that we were dead wrong. But we re-
checked our work and had the confidence to
continue buying.

EV: How about one that didnt work out so
well? What lessons did you learn as a result?

ML: There are a number of things that havent
worked out. And what you always try to do is
assess what went wrong. Was it your thesis that
was wrong? Was it because of management,
fraud, etc.? As prices go down, what we try to do
is re-double our efforts to test that our thesis is
still correct. And, to your earlier question, thats
where you need to be a bit of a contrarian.

The bottom line is, youre always going to have a
number of things that work out and a number of
things that dont work out. The goal is to win
more than you lose, and generate returns for
investors. If at the end of the day we can
generate equity-like returns by buying senior
debt, which is less risky, then I think weve done
our job well.
EV: Finally, what advice would you give to
students looking to get into this area? Given
the heavy legal aspect of distressed debt, is
law school important to have as a
foundation?

ML: I think being an attorney is certainly helpful,
as it helps you navigate your way around. But its
probably not as important as it was say, 20 years
ago. Back then there were fewer people who had
the requisite experience. Today its easier to hire
attorneys or advisors who have gone through
this process. For students, I would say try to find
a job with a firm that you have a lot of respect
for, and a place where you think youll be able to
learn quite a lot.

EV: Are there any books that you would
recommend for students to read?

ML: Im a big fan of Malcolm Gladwell. I think
Blink is a great book, and Outliers is as well. Im a
big believer in the 10,000 hour rule. I think
theres a lot of truth to that. The more experience
you have, the more youve seen a situation
unfold, the easier it is to understand whats likely
to happen. When you start working, there is no
substitute for hard work. Be that person who is
trying to learn everything, because many things
tend to repeat themselves over time.

EV: Mr. Lasry, thanks so much for the time!
We appreciate your insights.

If at the end of the day we can generate equity-like returns by buying senior debt,
which is less risky, then I think weve done our job well.


Dr. Ed Altman Bankruptcy
Expert

Dr. Edward Altman

Edward I. Altman is the Max L. Heine Professor
of Finance at the Stern School of Business,
New York University. He is the Director of
Research in Credit and Debt Markets at the
NYU Salomon Center for the Study of Financial
Institutions. Prior to serving in his present
position, Professor Altman chaired the Stern
School's MBA Program for 12 years. Dr.
Altman has an international reputation as an
expert on corporate bankruptcy, high yield
bonds, distressed debt and credit risk analysis.
He was the editor of the Handbook of
Corporate Finance and the Handbook of
Financial Markets and Institutions and the
author of a number of recent books, including
his most recent works on Bankruptcy, Credit
Risk and High Yield Junk Bonds (2002),
Recovery Risk (2005), Corporate Financial
Distress & Bankruptcy (3rd ed.,
2006) and Managing Credit Risk (2nd ed.
2008).

EVALUATION (EV): To get started, can you
speak a bit about your bankruptcy class?

Edward Altman (EA): Sure, I just finished
teaching Bankruptcy and Reorganization, which
focuses on both the macro and micro of
corporate bankruptcy macro from the
standpoint of using models to predict
bankruptcy/distress for firms and industries
(my area of focus) and micro from the
standpoint of understanding individual
bankruptcy and workout situations through case
studies (taught by Stuart Kovensky). Ive been
teaching the course for more than 35 years and
next year will actually be my last year teaching
full-time students. After that Ill continue to work
with the executive MBA program, as well as
devote more time to research, travel, etc.

EV: What initially attracted you to the areas
of bankruptcy, distressed debt, and credit
analysis? Are you eternally pessimistic by
nature?

EA: Well, some things happen by fate. I was a
PhD student at UCLA, looking for a dissertation
topic. My advisor steered me towards
bankruptcy. Originally I spent my time looking at
case studies, trying to glean caveats and
principals of bankruptcy. But I quickly became
bored with case studies and was more interested
in the idea of using models to predict
bankruptcy. This ultimately led to the Altman Z-
Score model. Some might consider me to be a
pessimistic person, but in reality Im an optimist.
While I do tend to rejoice when theres a large
bankruptcy, thats because in order to build
models you need good raw data the more data,
the better. So in my case bankruptcies are raw
material for my profession.

EV: How many U.S. corporate bankruptcies
have there been so far this year? Were they
Chapter 7 or 11 bankruptcies? And while
were on the subject, whats the difference?

EA: Well, to clarify, my data set is public
companies that have greater than $100 million of
debt. So far this year (through April 15
th
) there
have been 21, Chapter 11 bankruptcies. This is
actually more than last year at this point, but still
low compared to the good ole days of 1990-91,
2001-02, and 2008-09. However, business does

appear to be picking up! For the first month of
the year there were zero large bankruptcies, but
in February through April, the number has
picked up significantly. On the second part,
Chapter 11, named after the U.S. Bankruptcy
Code 11, is a form of bankruptcy involving
reorganization of a debtors assets. Chapter 7
involves liquidation of a debtors assets to pay off
its debt (to the extent funds are available).
Chapter 7 is pretty rare, and almost all
companies start in Chapter 11 and change to
Chapter 7 thereafter if necessary.

EV: What do you mean when you say Chapter
22 bankruptcy? Can you give a recent
example of such a situation?

EA: Sure, I coined the term with visiting
professor Edith Hotchkiss (now Associate
Professor at Boston College), and it simply
means a firm that goes into Chapter 11
bankruptcy twice, or in the case of Chapter 33,
three times! But in all seriousness, this is an
important issue. Ive actually been on a campaign
to heighten the awareness of this topic the
multi-filing problem. Between 15% and 20% of
all companies that emerge from bankruptcy go
on to file again, within five years. The
Bankruptcy Code says that you cannot confirm a
POR (Plan of Reorganization) if it is likely that it
will be followed by another reorganization or
liquidation of the debtor. The plan must be
feasible, and allow the company to continue as a
going concern. Since 1984, there have been 253
Chapter 22s, 16 Chapter 33s, and three Chapter
44s. Some recent Chapter 22s include Exide
Technologies, Dex One, and Readers Digest.

EV: To follow up on this, what methods could
be used to help companies avoid Chapter 22?
EA: Well, if you have a well-constructed
bankruptcy prediction model, why not also use it
to predict if a firm will likely go into bankruptcy
again? You can use the same or similar criteria,
but simply look at the emergence profile of a
company. If the probability is greater than 50%
that a firm will go back over the next five years,
then perhaps the company shouldnt be allowed
to come out of bankruptcy. This is a relatively
simple solution that could save companies and
creditors millions of dollars in bankruptcy costs.
We advocated for this approach on U.S. Airways
(filed twice in two years), but the judge on the
case didnt want to use a model as a significant
basis for making decisions.

EV: What about Chapter 9 bankruptcy? Why
is that applicable today?

EA: Chapter 9 is for municipal bankruptcy. This
is very topical right now with not only Detroit
filing, but a number of other cities in California
and even Pennsylvania (Harrisburg). The main
difference in Chapter 9 is that a municipality
cant be liquidated in bankruptcy (as opposed to
a company). A more subtle point is that there are
emotional factors involved in a municipal filing,
with constituents including municipal workers,
pensioners, and citizens. This brings up the
question of should municipalities be bailed out
or not? On the one side youd like to prevent the
domino effect or contagion, while on the other
youd like to avoid a moral hazard issue. While I
dont have an answer to this, its an important
question that should be considered carefully.

EV: You created the Altman Z-Score for
predicting bankruptcies quite a while ago
what is the Z-Score and how has it held up as
a predictor of bankruptcy over time?
So far this year (through April 15
th
) there have been 21, Chapter 11 bankruptcies.
This is actually more than last year at this point, but still low compared to the
good ole days of 1990-91, 2001-02, and 2008-09.

EA: I created the model in the mid/late 1960s,
and the model has held up quite well over time
(as evidenced by its widespread use in the
industry today). Its definitely more popular
today as there is more general interest in
bankruptcy, from both a legal and investment
standpoint. The model itself is fairly simple, and
uses five fundamentals factors of a company with
different weights to assign a Z-score. The lower
the score, the higher the risk of bankruptcy. The
weightings for the five factors havent changed
over time, but the calibration scale has changed
some. This is because today many firms look like
failing companies, but dont actually go into
bankruptcy. The reason for this is that the
average company in the U.S. is more risky than it
was 40 years ago, due to higher overall debt
levels on company balance sheets. So the Type II
error has increased (predicting bankruptcies
that dont actually happen) but the Type I error
remains quite low.

EV: The 2008-09 time period was a relatively
busy one for the bankruptcy/restructuring
community when do you expect these folks
to become busy again?

EA: Thats true, but even 2008-09 didnt last that
long things went down fast, and then
rebounded fairly quickly once the U.S.
Government got involved. This industry is
cyclical, with the last few cycles spaced about 7
10 years apart. Given that we are already five
years into this cycle, the next period of distress
may not be too far off. Those who are taking my
class (and other bankruptcy classes) now will be
ahead of the game they will have a chance to
get in before business becomes more robust!

EV: Weve heard that you open up a nice
bottle of wine every time theres a large
corporate bankruptcy when do you expect
the next such occasion to be?

EA: Indeed that is correct the next one will
likely be Energy Future Holdings (filed April 29
th
,
after interview had taken place), the subject of a
$45 billion LBO by KKR and TPG in 2007. Its
such a complex situation with numerous
stakeholders involved that it has been difficult
for them to get a prepack (prepackaged
bankruptcy) done. When it finally does happen,
well probably have to open up a magnum for
that one!

EV: Anything else to add?

EA: Sure, just that Im very proud of what weve
put together at Stern in terms of our
bankruptcy/turnaround/distressed debt
program here. We have at least 4-5 mini-courses
on the subject, and we are one of the leaders in
business education in that area. Although next
year will be my last year teaching in the full-time
program, we have a number of highly qualified
professionals in place that will continue to build
on what we have now and carry on the legacy.

EV: Wonderful, thanks for sitting down with
us Professor!

Ive actually been on a campaign to heighten the awareness of this topic the
multi-filing problem. Between 15% and 20% of all companies that emerge from
bankruptcy go on to file again, within five years.

Julia Bykhovskaia
BulwarkBay Investment
Group

Julia Bykhovskaia

Julia Bykhovskaia is a Managing Director,
Research at BulwarkBay Investment Group where
she is responsible for identifying, analyzing and
monitoring investments for the firm's portfolios.
BulwarkBay is a value-oriented, event-driven
investment manager which focuses on high yield,
distressed and special situations investing. Prior to
joining BulwarkBay, Julia held research positions
with Concordia Advisors, LLC and Schultze Asset
Management. She received an MBA from NYU
Stern in 2003 and is a CFA Charterholder.

EVALUATION (EV): Julia, how did you first
become interested in distressed investing
and what is it that sparked your interest?

Julia Bykhovskaia (JB): It was totally random! I
started my MBA when I was 22, had never lived
in the U.S. before (I moved from Russia for my
MBA), and was a marketing major for undergrad.
At one point, one of my closest friends and MBA
classmates suggested that I take a course
Investing in Distressed Securities by Allan
Brown. Once I did, I was hooked. Professor
Browns passion for investing was contagious
and the subject was fascinating. Distressed
investing is complex and requires an
understanding of accounting, finance, valuation,
bankruptcy law, and the dynamics between the
players involved in the situation. The learning
curve is steep and it never ends; the work that
you do is very intellectually stimulating being
bored is simply impossible. I finished my MBA in
2003 but I am even more interested and fond of
the subject now than when I first started.

EV: Could you speak a bit about the
investment/research process at BulwarkBay?
What are a few key items that you tend to
focus on right away?

JB: Cash flow generation ability of the business is
what you are always trying to assess at the end
of the day. We spend a lot of time trying to
dissect the business, understand the main
drivers, risks and sensitivities. We also analyze
companys capital and corporate structure and
study indentures and credit agreements. We
strive to get to know the industry as well as we
can by talking to customers, competitors and
industry experts. In terms of valuation, most
buy-siders do not use complicated valuation
models investors mostly rely on TEV/EBITDA
multiples and industry metrics (i.e. TEV per
subscriber for telecoms, reserves metrics for
E&P firms, sales per square foot for retailers,
etc). DCF is used rarely, mostly in melting ice
cube situations. When we invest in
stressed/distressed securities, we also conduct a
Distressed investing is complex and requires an understanding of accounting,
finance, valuation, bankruptcy law, and the dynamics between the players
involved in the situation. The learning curve is steep and it never ends; the work
that you do is very intellectually stimulating being bored is simply impossible.

liquidation and recovery analysis. At
BulwarkBay we emphasize principal safety; we
believe that if we avoid the losers, the winners
will take care of themselves.

EV: What do you like most about being a
distressed debt/fixed income investor? (as
opposed to equities). Do you think that there
are more opportunities to add value for
investors in an (arguably) less efficient
market?

JB: I am reluctant to generalize, but Id say that
investing in high yield/distressed debt is more
complex. When you invest in equity, you are
primarily concerned with the growth rates of the
business and how your company is valued
relative to its peers. When you invest in a high
yield/distressed securities, the focus shifts to
understanding of the downside and recovery
potential. Why does distress exist? What
happens if the company goes bankrupt? Would it
be a liquidation or a going concern
restructuring? What would your recovery be in
each case? Who are the debtholders involved? I
would say that distressed debt investing adds an
extra level of complexity to the analysis and
thats what makes it so interesting. For a variety
of reasons, including the abovementioned
complexity, I do believe that the distressed/high
yield market is less efficient than the investment
grade or equity market and you are more likely
to find mispricings there.

EV: Where do you think the best
opportunities are right now in your space?

JB: The yields in the high yield/distressed space
are currently low and therefore the upside is
limited. We focus on event-driven situations with
shorter maturities and look for opportunities to
add to our short exposure to hedge our book.
Since preservation of capital is paramount, we at
BulwarkBay are very much focused on downside
protection. Having said that, we are finding some
opportunities to invest in typically off-the-run
securities of smaller, less followed issuers.

EV: Given that you dont have a legal
background by training, what methods have
you used to successfully navigate a space that
requires a fair amount of legal know-how?

JB: Understanding the legal issues underlying in-
court and out-of-court restructurings is
obviously essential for distressed investing.
Having formal legal training is of course very
helpful, however not the only way to gain this
knowledge. That said, you do need to understand
the Chapter 11 process well and have a firm
grasp of the issues that might come up (for
instance, fraudulent conveyance, equitable
subordination, substantive consolidation). I built
up my knowledge by reading a lot on the subject
and taking bankruptcy related classes at NYU,
including a legal course Bankruptcy, Workouts
and Reorganizations, and then supplemented
that WITH experience. When you are working on
a bankruptcy case, you also get access to legal
advisors working either on the debtors or
lenders side, who you can call and ask lots of
questions about potential legal issues and
thats exactly what I do. Investment funds also
often engage lawyers to walk them through
complex situations; larger funds hire in-house
lawyers.

EV: How has your personal investment
process changed over time as youve gained
more experience? What are a few things that
Three of my favorite books are Margin of Safety (Seth Klarman), The Most
Important Thing (Howard Marks, his investment memos are great too), and
Distressed Debt Analysis (Steve Moyer).

students or young professionals can do to
become better investors?

JB: I believe that all investment mistakes, which
are inevitable, should be analyzed and carefully
studied. Here are a few things that I personally
have learned: (from my very own mistakes!) be
humble, listen to others but learn to trust your
own judgment. Always allow for the possibility
of being wrong and control risk with position
sizing. Dont be afraid to change your mind if the
circumstances have changed. Dont be
complacent, dont be lazy. Try to keep emotion
out of investing. Be patient. Dont be too positive
being a sceptic usually pays off in investing in
the long run.

EV: What advice might you have for students
looking to get into this industry?

JB: Stern is a rather unique place for those who
want to get into high yield/distressed investing.
Take Ed Altmans Bankruptcy &
Reorganization, Allan Browns Investing in
Distressed Securities, and Max Holmes Cases
in Bankruptcy & Reorganization classes. I would
also try to take a bankruptcy law class at the NYU
Law School. Network with alumni working in the
industry and ask for their advice. Use
Bloombergs JOB search function to look for
opportunities on the buy side. The quality of the
jobs posted there is excellent and the response
rate is high as compared to other job search
tools. If you do get an interview, have your
investment ideas ready. Most hedge funds are
small and have no formal hiring programs.
Getting in will require putting in extra effort and
lots of networking.

EV: Thanks for your time, Julia, anything else
to add?

JB: Nothing can replace years of experience.
However you can accelerate the learning process
by reading a lot. Three of my favorite books are
Margin of Safety (Seth Klarman), The Most
Important Thing (Howard Marks, his investment
memos are great too), and Distressed Debt
Analysis (Steve Moyer). Have fun!

EV: All excellent choices. We appreciate the
insights!

Source: The New Yorker (Peter Vey)

Nick Wells Young Alumnus
on the Buy-Side

Nick Wells

Nick Wells, CFA is an equity research associate
at Capital World Investors, a division of the
Capital Group. Prior to joining Capital, Nick
spent a year as a sell-side research associate
at UBS covering industrial conglomerates. He
graduated from the Stern MBA program in
2012 with concentrations in finance and
economics. Prior to Stern, Nick worked in fixed
income trading for Southwest Securities in
Dallas, TX.

EVALUATION (EV): You currently work for
Capital Group. What is your role there, and
how did you find the opportunity after
graduating from NYU Stern?

Nick Wells (NW): I work as a Research
Associate for the Capital Group. In my role I
support two research analysts (all-cap U.S. retail
and a small/mid-cap generalist) and one
portfolio manager with a variety of tasks
modeling, proprietary research, management
meeting prep, etc. I found the job through a
posting on LinkedIn and moved from NYC to San
Francisco to take it.

EV: To follow up to that, youve spent one
year on the sell-side (at UBS) and one year on
the buy-side (at Capital Group). How would
you compare the two roles? What did you like
about each?

NW: Both roles required very similar skillsets, at
least during my limited tenure. Attention to
detail, modeling, time management, and
curiosity all play a critical role in both. A lot of
the variation in what you do initially will be
analyst dependent - as an associate, youll
generally get to do whatever your analyst is too
busy to do, doesnt like to do, or isnt as good at
doing. So it varies widely. For me, writing was a
much bigger factor on the sell-side, while critical
thinking and proprietary research have played
more significant roles on the buy-side. My
coverage universe has also changed, from 15-20
large/mega cap industrial stocks to thousands of
stocks across geographies and market caps. Over
time, being on the sell-side can give you great
access to different buy-side investors and
glimpses at their strategy and thought-process.
On the buy-side, you can canvas the sell-side for
general sentiment and consensus.

Without question, the opportunity to become the
expert on your sector was my favorite aspect of
the sell-side. Having successful investors call you
to discuss trade ideas, earnings, management,
etc. can be a very rewarding process. On the buy-
side, I like that my work goes directly towards
making an investment decision. This is
incredibly motivating for me, but its also much
more stressful than your average sell-side
recommendation.

EV: You touched on this briefly, but what are
some of the pros and cons of your (now)
generalist approach? (as opposed to being a
sector specialist)

NW: In essence, for both approaches you are
looking for relatively good performers in a given
universe of stocks. For generalists, that universe
is just much larger and the likely range between
the best and worst performing stocks will be
much greater. There are plenty of downsides to
both approaches, but the one that has most
Source: The New Yorker (Kenneth Mahood)

surprised me as a generalist-in-training is the
critical need to distill information down to the 2-
3 factors that really matter very quickly. On the
sell-side, every basis point and line item in the
model was important. As a buy-side generalist,
you have to rely a bit more on intuition and
accept that the information you have is sufficient
to move forward with an idea. On the flip side, a
generalist approach allows you to take a much
broader view of whats happening in the world
and move where things look interesting or out of
favor.

EV: How would you describe your investment
research process? How do you go about
trying to uncover valuable insights that will
ultimately create alpha for the fund?

NW: A year ago I wouldve answered this value
investing and moved on. Its an incredibly broad
term, but my approach generally involved
finding un-loved companies with attractive
valuations. Today, I dont have a defined style. I
am working with multiple investors that bring
very different approaches to the table - pure
growth, GARP, and value. As a relatively new
research associate, my focus is on learning the
investment process of the people I support and
figuring out how to add alpha to that process. In
an effort to answer the question anyway, I think
we add alpha by knowing and understanding
management, by thinking much more about the
long-term potential than what might happen
over the next three to 12 months, and by figuring
out and focusing on the few factors that actually
matter while not getting lost in a search for what
Id call false precision.

EV: What is your preferred valuation
framework?

NW: Given the breadth of my coverage
responsibilities, I have to be flexible with the
valuation approach I use. Its difficult to have a
preferred method in this environment, as
ultimately my preference is to use the method
that best represents the company in question (or
at least considers how the average investor in
the name is looking at valuation). If I had to
narrow it down, it would be FCF Yield or P/NTM
Earnings.

EV: When you were in school, what resources
did you take advantage of, or find
particularly helpful, in guiding you toward
your intended career path?

NW: Ill break this in to two buckets the
resources I think were critical and the classes I
found most helpful. As far as resources go,
anyone interested in investment management
should be involved with SIMR (shameless plug!).
Dont just be a member, but be involved. The
stock pitch competition, the workshops, and the
research report competition all of these were
great learning experiences and helped me
solidify my interest in research and were
discussed at length during interviews. Id also
include the Michael Price Student Investment
Fund (MPSIF) here, even though its technically a
class. MPSIF is the ultimate example of
something that you get out only what you put
in, but youll be hard pressed not to learn
something from the practical experience of
investing real money alongside your classmates.

I think we add alpha by knowing and understanding management, by thinking
much more about the long-term potential than what might happen over the next
three to 12 months, and by figuring out and focusing on the few factors that
actually matter while not getting lost in a search for what Id call false precision.

There are three classes (aside from MPSIF) that
really defined my experience at Stern. They are
as follows: (1) Godes modeling class. If you
arent great with excel, and probably even if you
are, this class will help you immensely with
understanding and navigating financial
statements; (2) DSouzas behavioral finance
class I think this is a fascinating and under-
appreciated aspect of investing. If nothing else,
this class will change the way you think and alert
you to some common human biases; (3) anything
valuation-related with Damodaran. This is
pretty self-explanatory, but Damodaran is great
at what he does.

All that said, Stern is a wealth of opportunity and
Im sure there are things that I missed. Be
adventurous and have fun!

EV: What advice do you have for current
students looking to get into investment
management? What is something that you
know now, but didnt as a student?

NW: Everyones situation will be different, but if
theres one piece of advice Id give to everyone at
Stern, it would be to network with people outside
of school. Its not easy (Im guilty of not doing
enough of this during my tenure,) but if you do it
tactfully youll build something valuable and
learn a lot along the way. Being a student at
Stern is a golden ticket to reach out to just about
anyone and learn about what they do.

EV: Anything else to add?

NW: Be honest with yourself! This might sound
harsh, but if youre just not interested in stocks,
or bonds, or finance in general, this probably
isnt the right career path for you. The people I
work with love the markets. We email at 4am,
midnight, and 10pm whenever something
interesting is happening. If you arent motivated,
this will become incredibly tedious. Stern is a
great launching pad to do amazing things use
it!
EV: Great, thanks for sharing your
experiences with us!

Source: The New Yorker (Kenneth Mahood)

Announcement:
Stern Investment Management &
Research and Stern Hedge Fund
Association are Merging

Hi Everyone,

We just wanted to relay some exciting news. Effective this spring,
the Stern Investment Management & Research (SIMR) club and the
Stern Hedge Fund Association (SHFA) have merged into one club.
The two clubs decided that a merger would be best in order to
eliminate redundancies, streamline the recruiting process for
incoming students, and strengthen the overall investment
management program at Stern. Each club has great resources and a
strong alumni base and we felt that joining together was in the best
interest of both clubs. The newly formed club will retain the SIMR
name to avoid confusion.

We look forward to further strengthening the SIMR brand and we
hope to see you at future events!

Sincerely,

The SIMR Board


Stuart Kovensky Co-Founder,
Onex Credit Partners

Stuart Kovensky

Stuart Kovensky is a member of the Adjunct
Faculty of the NYU Stern School of Business. He is
also a Co-Founder, Director and member of the
Investment Committee of Onex Credit Partners,
but is no longer working full-time. Before forming
Onex Credit Partners in 2007, Stuart worked as a
portfolio manager and securities analyst for the
event-driven and distressed debt alternative
strategies of John A. Levin & Co., Inc. from 2001-
2005. He also worked at Murray Capital
Management for five years where he was a
principal. Stuart earned his B.S. with honors from
Binghamton University and his MBA from New
York University's Stern School of Business.

EVALUATION (EV): Tell us a little bit about
your background. How did you become
interested in distressed investing?

Stuart Kovensky (SK): I have a background in
international and corporate finance dating back
to my first job at Chase Manhattan Bank
following my undergraduate degree in 1989. I
was very interested in corporate finance but
realized that I didnt have a passion for
investment banking. I wanted to focus on
investing rather than doing deals in the capital
markets. I also recognized that I had a contrarian
nature which really started to flourish during a
volatile period in the corporate bond market in
the early 1990s. At the time, I was working in the
High Yield Finance department at Chase and I
recognized opportunity in the volatility. I was
also in the EMBA program at Stern during this
period and was able to get a much better
understanding of the market as I took classes
with Professors Altman and Holmes. This
combination of circumstances really peaked my
interest and I made a concerted effort to find a
job on the buy-side at a firm focused on
distressed investing.

EV: What skillset do you think is necessary to
be successful in the field? How much of this
can you learn in business school versus
getting actual experience?

SK: First and foremost you must have a passion
for investing and analysis. If you dont love
rolling up your sleeves to complete a deep dive
on a company and its industry, dont bother.
Being comfortable as a contrarian also helps as
you will typically research or invest in a
company at a time when it is out of favor. You
must also be relentlessly curious and constantly
challenging your views, assumptions and
conclusions in order to be able to have the
confidence to make an investment or present it
to others. Finally you need to be confidently
open-minded. By this I mean that once you are
satisfied with your work, you need to have the
confidence to act on it but also be open-minded
to factors that could change the situation and
your previous view on an investment.

You can learn a lot of this in business school and
then apply it as you get actual experience. It
takes many situations, some successful and
others that are failures (due to mistakes or
unexpected circumstances) to learn how to
succeed in the field. Even those that have been at
it for a long time still have losers in their
portfolio or go through a slump. The key is to use
your time in the classroom and your experience
to keep improving your batting average.

EV: What are prospects like for current MBA
students looking to get into the industry?
How would they go about breaking in?

SK: This is a very tough question with no easy
answer. The current prospects are challenging
due to a few factors. First, the current default
rate is low and is expected to continue like that
in the near future. This limits the number of
available positions throughout the industry
research analyst, financial advisor, trader, etc. In
addition, the number of firms that are active in
this field has declined due to factors mentioned
above, as well as the fact that most of the capital
raised in the field is being consolidated into
fewer firms. This makes it harder for the smaller
firms to thrive and therefore also limits the
positions available and creates displacement as
firms get smaller. Lastly, as the broker/dealers
scale back their principal activity due to new
regulations, additional displaced professionals
are left looking for work.

In summary, each of these factors helps to create
a supply/demand imbalance at the current time.
The best way to break in is to get experience
wherever you can buy-side, sell-side or
advisory work at one of the restructuring
advisory firms. In order to make that happen,
you have to be persistent, smart and be able to
prove you have a true passion for the field as
opposed to a desire for the rewards that may
come from being successful in the field.

EV: Where would you look for some good
distressed opportunities today? Outside of
the United States?

SK: Finding opportunities in the U.S. is more
challenging today due to a number of factors,
including the low default rate and the Feds
monetary policy. There are still pockets of
opportunity, especially with companies that have
been restructured over the last few years and are
benefiting from an improved capital structure as
well as a stable economy. Outside the U.S., there
are opportunities in Europe as the economy
recovers and banks review their balance sheets
and look to dispose of certain assets. Asia could
also become interesting, especially if there is a
slowdown in China.

EV: Please describe the distressed portfolio
management process. How many positions
would typically be held? How do you
incorporate hedging?

SK: Given the volatility that can be present in
this form of investing, portfolio management is
key. Diversification is one of the main tools here.
Diversity can be achieved through so many areas
the industry the company is in, the factors
driving the companys restructuring (asset sale,
new financing, turnaround), the level of seniority
in the capital structure, geographical factors, etc.
Another important factor is your own comfort
and concentration of your investments with
respect to expectations that you set for your
investors.
You must be relentlessly curious and constantly challenging your views,
assumptions and conclusions in order to be able to have the confidence to make
an investment or present it to others.

Hedging can be incorporated to try to offset
portfolio level exposures (macro economic,
interest rates) or position level issues. For
example, if you are investing in a company that is
in the oil and gas field, you may consider hedging
out the exposure to gas prices so that your
investment succeeds or fails based on the
success of the restructuring itself and not an
external factor beyond your control.

EV: The field has become more competitive
over the last few cycles. Do you think
significant market inefficiencies will always
exist, or will attractive returns bring in
enough players to compete these returns
away?

SK: Competition has increased meaningfully
since I entered the field 20 years ago. While that
can make it harder at times, inefficiencies still
exist and distressed investing continues to
deliver strong absolute and risk-adjusted returns
(compared to other alternatives and equities in
general). So I do not think the returns have been
competed away. One factor that has helped offset
the increase in competition is that the size of the
leveraged loan and high yield bond market has
also grown considerably during this time.

EV: Great, is there anything else you would
like to add?

SK: Distressed investing can be a very
challenging and rewarding career path. I think
the key to being good at it is that you need to
enjoy it. Like any other career, you must have a
passion for it. If you dont, find that field that you
do love because its the passion that gets you
through the hard work, uncertainty and
volatility. Its what gives you the thrill of victory
and the agony of defeat, leaving you excited for
the next potential investment.

EV: Thanks for your time Stuart, these are
great perspectives!
Allan Brown Co-Founder,
Concordia Advisors

Allan Brown

Allan A. Brown retired in 2010 as Partner,
Portfolio Manager, and Co-head of Distressed Debt
at Concordia Advisors, LLC. Prior to joining
Concordia in 2002, Mr. Brown spent eight years at
Magten Asset Management Corp where he was a
Managing Director. During his career as an
investor in distressed securities, Mr. Brown has
been actively involved in numerous bankruptcies
and reorganizations, and currently serves on a
variety of corporate boards. Mr. Brown is also an
Adjunct Professor of Finance at New York
Universitys Stern School of Business where, since
1997, he has taught a course he conceived and
developed entitled Distressed Securities Investing.

(Interview contributed by Vinny Nyamathi)

EVALUATION (EV): Can you tell us about your
background and how you initially got
interested in distressed investing?

Allan Brown (AB): I was always passionate
about value investing, but my interest in
distressed investing blossomed when I was a
student of Ed Altmans in the early 90s while I
was getting my MBA from Stern. When I decided
not to pursue a PhD in finance, Dr. Altman
introduced me to Tally Embry at Magten Asset
Management, a pioneer in the field of distressed
investing and one of the savviest investors Ive
ever known. I worked at Magten for eight years

before starting the distressed debt fund at
Concordia Advisors with another colleague from
Magten, Bob Capozzi. I retired in 2010 and have
been focused on other creative pursuits and also
on getting my golf handicap down though since
that doesnt seem to be working very well, if
default rates spike up I may consider returning
to the investment business. Ive been teaching
my class on distressed investing at Stern since
1997, and since I use real-time case studies it
never gets boringeven though in some years
(like this one) there arent that many illustrative
distressed ideas to choose from.

EV: In your view, how has the field of
distressed investing changed over the span of
your career? Has increased competition
severely reduced the inefficiencies that were
once available?

AB: The field has changed dramatically over the
last 25 years. There are many more participants
(and more capital) on the buy-side and fewer on
the sell-side (due to broker-dealer
consolidation). The size, breadth, and geography
of the high-yield and leveraged loan markets
have grown dramatically, and I would expect
that to continue. The ability of distressed
portfolio managers to utilize leverage in their
portfolios either through prime brokers, total
return swaps, or credit default swaps has
emerged and exploded since the mid-90s, but
that can be considered both a blessing and a
curse.

In periods of high liquidity, low defaults, and low
interest rates (such as today), interesting ideas
are scarce and many investors are forced to play
the carry game and grab for yield, or else style-
drift in order to put capital to work. Those
credits that are in distress today are either in
highly cyclical businesses that levered up to
grow or make acquisitions at the peak of their
industry cycle (for example, shipping) or are
terrible businesses that really dont need to exist
at all. As you mentioned, due to the supply-
demand imbalance (i.e. investable capital to
potential investments), risk premia and expected
returns for those distressed ideas are lower than
they would be in a normalized environment.

There is a premise that there are more
inefficiencies in smaller credits, due to the fact
that large hedge funds are constrained to look
only at big names, based on the practical
standpoint of capital deployment and internal
resource allocation; it doesnt make much sense
for a $10 billion fund to have an analyst spend
significant time on a credit that they might only
be able to put $10 million dollars to work in
(unless the potential return was truly
exceptional). But today, I think that though
smaller credits may not have big funds analyzing
and competing to buy their beaten-down loans
and bonds, there are enough small and mid-size
hedge funds and other investors in the wings to
fill the demand to buy that paper; as such, the
inefficiencies arent as great as they were a
decade ago.

EV: What are your thoughts on the current
distressed environment? Are there any cases
going on right now that you find interesting?
Do you foresee anything that may bring about
more activity in the distressed space?

One guest lecturer in my class many years ago, Doug Teitelbaum, made the
analogy that investing in a distressed situation was like watching the first ten
minutes of a movie and then trying to figure out how it was going to end. Clearly,
the more movies you watch and study, the better youll be able to make that call,
even though you wont be right 100% of the time.


AB: Although not Im not involved on a day-to-
day basis, the current distressed environment
seems for the most part to be pretty boring.
There are a handful of unique and interesting
ideas out there that every player is focused on,
but for the most part the pickings are slim. In my
experience, sharp catalysts those which cause
dramatic market liquidity dislocations and
repricing of risk are almost always
unpredictable by the masses. Examples are the
devaluation of the Mexican Peso in 1994, the
blow up of Long Term Capital Management in
1998, and the accounting fraud debacle of 2001-
2002 (Enron, Adelphia Communications,
Worldcom). While the burst in sub-prime in
2007 was 100% predictable (as evidenced by
those who profited from it, fortunately including
me), the sheer size of the market and the ratio of
believers to non-believers still caused havoc.
Going forward, aside from the gradual increase
in rates, it may be something that is completely
off the radar that causes markets to reprice,
liquidity to evaporate, and a spike in
restructurings and defaults.

EV: Could you talk about the importance of
experience in distressed investing?

AB: There is absolutely no substitute for
experience in this field. All of the best and most
successful investors are generalists who get up-
to-speed quickly on distressed industries and
credits that come to the fore. One guest lecturer
in my class many years ago, Doug Teitelbaum,
who was a partner and principal at Bay Harbour
Management at the time, made the analogy in
class that investing in a distressed situation was
like watching the first ten minutes of a movie
and then trying to figure out how it was going to
end. Clearly, the more movies you watch and
study, the better youll be able to make that call,
even though you wont be right 100% of the
time.

EV: Do you have any advice for students who
are interested in starting a career in
distressed investing after graduating?
AB: First, be passionate about investing
especially value or event-driven investing. Do
your own research, and follow through by taking
risk with capital (either yours, your parents or
your in-laws). Although you likely may not be
able to buy distressed bonds, you can buy
equities and the analytical skill set you will
develop and the ability to force yourself to make
real and meaningful buy and sell decisions will
serve you well. Nothing will impress a PM more
than a candidate who comes in and can talk
about an interesting one-off idea that he or she
has sourced on their own and knows cold.

Second, follow two or three current cases in the
news closely. Dig deep. Talk to people. Go
through the underlying documents and do your
own valuation and analysis. Understand it as
much as you can and try to decide how youd
play it, if you had $20 million in your back
pocket. Any candidate that gets to the final stage
of interviewing will be asked to perform this
type of task anyway, so it would be good to have
a few under your belt.

Finally, be persistent. Knock on doors. Press the
flesh. If this is what you want to do and you know
that you can add value and will work your butt
off to do so, make it known. Hopefully, your
prospective PM will realize that the persistence
and drive that you exhibit in landing the job will
be the same persistence and drive that you will
exhibit when you are on the job.

EV: These are great tips. Thanks for taking
the time to speak with us!


Max Holmes Founder,
Plainfield Asset Management

Max Holmes

Max Holmes founded Plainfield Asset Management
LLC in February 2005, and has been its Chief
Investment Officer since inception. Prior to
founding Plainfield, Mr. Holmes was the Head of
the Distressed Securities Group and a Managing
Director of D.E. Shaw & Co., L.P., where he served
as Co-Portfolio manager for D.E. Shaw Laminar
Portfolios, L.L.C. from its inception in February
2002 through February 2005. Mr. Holmes received
a J.D. from Columbia Law School in 1984, an
M.B.A. from Columbia Business School in 1984 and
a B.A. from Harvard College in philosophy in 1981.
Since 1993, he has taught "Cases in Bankruptcy
and Reorganization" at New York University Stern
Graduate School of Business, where he remains an
Adjunct Professor of Finance.

EVALUATION (EV): You have a unique
background, starting out as a lawyer, then
moving to investment banking, followed by
distressed debt investing could you briefly
describe how you navigated that path?

Max Holmes (MH): My career path was a
combination of good planning and considerable
luck. The planning part was my education. In
high school and college, I had no exposure to
investment banking or bankruptcy, and was
simply intending to be a lawyer. I was working
my way through Columbia Law School, working
nights as a paralegal at the Brooklyn District
Attorneys Office. It was a great experience, in
part because it made clear to me that I should be
a business lawyer. Columbia Business School
was right across the street from the Law School,
so I went over and did some sleuthing, and
discovered that by taking one extra class per
semester, plus studying for two summers, I could
do both a JD and an MBA in three years. So I got
prepared properly.

The next parts were happenstance. After
Columbia I joined Vinson & Elkins, a large law
firm in Houston, Texas. I was recruited in 1983,
when things were blowing and going in Texas
(the oil price hit a then-record of $40 a barrel).
By the time I actually arrived in September 1984,
the oil price was on its way to $10 (down 75%!),
and a major regional recession was underway. I
was somewhat randomly assigned to a group
within the law firm that represented Texas
commercial banks. I worked on one new real
estate construction loan, and then someone
flipped a switch, and I and my entire group
became workout and bankruptcy lawyers by
accident.

Lightning struck a second time two years later. I
woke up and decided that it would be more
interesting designing deals as an investment
banker than writing them up as a lawyer, so I
started applying to various investment banks. A
couple of months later, I was hired at Drexel
Burnham Lambert in Beverly Hills, California. On
the one hand, it was a masterpiece of bad career
timing, as Ivan Boesky was arrested a few weeks
after I arrived. But on the other hand, I was
about to get an amazing education. In addition to
a bunch of other jobs there, I got to work with
the late Jeff Chanin, one of the greats of
bankruptcy advisory, who after Drexel founded
Chanin & Company (now part of Duff & Phelps).
And I got to be part of Drexels distressed trading
group, which had long been one of their core
areas.


EV: Can you briefly describe the history of the
high-yield bond market and explain why it
exists, as well as why the asset class is so
attractive to fixed income investors?

MH: The modern high yield market was
pioneered by Michael Milken, who started
working on it in the late 1970s and by 1990 (the
time of Drexels own bankruptcy) had built it
into a $250 billion market with Drexel holding a
dominant 50% market share. Since then, through
three significant recessions, it is now a $1 trillion
market, with no dominant broker and a very
wide variety of issuers.

The persistence of the high yield market is a
tribute to the unrelenting quest for yield by both
institutional and individual investors. In a year of
low defaults, you can earn 500 basis points over
Treasuries. And over the full cycle, even with
plenty of defaults, you can earn 200 basis points
over Treasuries, factoring in both default losses
and ultimate recoveries. These yields are quite
competitive versus other fixed income categories
like agencies, mortgages or high-grade
corporates. So even with lower liquidity and the
brain damage of defaults, investors keep coming
back for the yield.

EV: Many distressed investing professionals
have law degrees, which makes sense given
the legal element involved. What tips do you
have for non-attorneys looking to get up to
speed?

MH: Roughly half of senior distressed investing
professionals are lawyers. Its definitely an
advantage, but not an insurmountable
advantage. In the big cases, there are plenty of
full-time professional lawyers involved, so the
investors who are lawyers dont have to actually
make legal decisions. If youre a lawyer-investor,
your big advantage is that the lawyer-lawyers
are much less likely to give you a snow job. You
will spend a lot less time reviewing basic
procedure and chasing tangents and
hypotheticals, and more time on real actionable
tactics and strategy.

The best way (probably the only way) for the
non-lawyer to bridge the gap is by doing. Work
on a specific case, and make it a point to find a
lawyer in the case with some experience who
will spend one-on-one time with you going
through all of the details as well as the strategy.
Then do it again on another case. Then do it
again. Eventually, after enough iterations, the
gap will have disappeared. I know several
excellent distressed investors who never went to
law school, where the lawyer-lawyers in the
cases are completely convinced that those
investors are lawyers.
EV: Given that the distressed investment
opportunity set is cyclical, what do investors
do during times of economic stability or low-
default environments (like today)?

MH: This is a significant issue in distressed
investing. The first choice, continue investing in a
smaller and smaller universe of distressed
opportunities, is likely to result in reduced
returns as more money chases fewer deals. The
second choice, which most managers are very
reluctant to do, is return the money to investors.
This would often be the best result for the
investors. The third and most likely outcome is
some version of style drift. Some managers go
into high yield and other fixed income, which in
The basic game is a zero-sum allocation of value over creditor (and occasionally
shareholder) classes. The investor needs to accurately assess the value of the
enterprise, and then have the legal skills to predict how that value will be spread
over the various classes.

many cases is a good fit and successful. Some go
into direct lending to smaller companies, which
unfortunately is just as cyclical as distressed
albeit a different cycle (my fund Plainfield was
burned badly in direct lending). Some go into
value stocks, which has in all but a handful of
examples led to bad outcomes. And some invest
in distressed outside the United States; some
funds have done this badly and some extremely
well.

EV: Can you talk a little bit about the
differences in the landscape and opportunity
set in the United States versus other
countries? Does it make sense to look for
ideas in multiple countries, or would the
differences in legal environments make that
inefficient?

MH: In recent decades, recessions tend to start
in the U.S. and then migrate overseas.
Recessions also get cleaned up faster in the U.S.
And finally, U.S. banks are more likely to
promptly sell distressed assets then foreign
banks, primarily because of regulatory
differences. Add these three factors together,
and you can have an excellent U.S. distressed
cycle followed by ample non-U.S. opportunities.

Each country absolutely has its own bankruptcy
laws and also customs. This is not for the faint of
heart. Lessons learned in the U.S. can be
completely reversed in other jurisdictions. I have
a saying that as I draw concentric circles around
Greenwich, Connecticut, the farther away, the
less I am the insider, the less likely I am to have
an advantage. So the expected returns need to be
better, the farther away the investor is from the
actual action, to compensate for this risk.

Unfortunately, focusing only on one or two
foreign countries is unlikely to produce enough
of a diversified portfolio. Funds which are
serious about non-U.S. opportunities will have a
dedicated team in Europe or Asia, with some
really large funds having both.
EV: Distressed investing involves dynamic,
game-theoretic interactions between various
creditor classes and with the company. Can
you describe some of the interplay that is
typical of these situations?

MH: Making money in distressed investing has
two aspects. The basic game is a zero-sum
allocation of value over creditor (and
occasionally shareholder) classes. The investor
needs to accurately assess the value of the
enterprise, and then have the legal skills to
predict how that value will be spread over the
various classes. At the margin, good negotiating
skills can improve outcomes, but within a
relatively narrow band.

The harder and more valuable game is having
the imagination and skills to pull off major value
creation in the case. This could come from an
unexpected cyclical upswing in revenue, new
labor or supply contracts, new management,
technological change and/or a bidding war for
the assets. These factors are much hard to
predict or make happen. But this is where truly
great excess returns are created, if the investor is
properly positioned ahead of time.

EV: Is there anything else you would like to
add?

MH: Young people who are interested in the field
should make the distressed cycle work in their
favor. The time to join the industry is when
things are quiet. You can get established and
learn the business at a reasonable pace, and then
be in position to add value when the next
recession inevitably happens. The worst time to
join the industry is at the peak of the default
cycle. You will be thrown into a bunch of deals
with no training, and then be in position to be
the first person fired when the cycle inevitably
cools down.

EV: Thats great advice. Thanks for your time
and insights!
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Dear Reader:

The inaugural Stern Investment Idea Contest was held on Thursday, April 24, 2014 to select the best
original investment idea from among Sterns MBA class of 2014 and 2015.

The Stern Investment Management and Research Club (SIMR) thanks our young alumni judges: Sobby
Arora (MBA 2010, Federated Investments), Adam Gold (BS 2005, Espial Capital Management), Albert
Hicks (MBA 2013, Bowery Investment Management), Dave Umbro (MBA 2012, ING Investment
Management), and Eric Wu (MBA 2011, Incandescent Capital). We also appreciate the many alumni,
guests, and MBAs for their participation.

The contest focused on original investment research in public companies. The three winners won
complimentary tickets to the Sohn Conference in New York on May 5, 2014, in addition to publication in
this edition of EVALUATION.

First place: Scott Farmer (MBA 2015), who pitched buying Urban Outfitters (NASDAQ: URBN, PPS
$36, Target PPS $43 Q2 2015), a specialty retailer. He argued that above-consensus same-store sales,
new operational efficiencies, and refocused management will combine for a 20% upside opportunity.
Adam Gold expressed worries around the broader shift from brick-and-mortar to online shopping,
but Scott pointed out that URBN already derives nearly 30% of its sales online and that it has a long-
standing cultural and operational focus on e-commerce.

Second place: Tim Wengerd (MBA 2015), who pitched shorting Ulta Salon, Cosmetics & Fragrance
(NASDAQ: ULTA, PPS $88, Target PPS $66 Q4 2015), a cosmetics retailer. Tim highlighted that the
companys expansion story might be closer to maturity than the market expects and that margin
projections are unrealistic given the competitive threat from Amazon and Sephora. Tim also
highlighted the results of his survey of women at Stern, which revealed that while half of female Stern
students were open to buying replacement cosmetics on the internet, few had actually fully migrated
to online shopping.

Third Place: Jeff Nathan (MBA 2015) pitched buying Apple (NASDAQ: AAPL, PPS $525, Target $720
Q4 2015) with upside of 40%. Jeff highlighted the companys opportunities for continued above-
expectation growth and its compelling value relative to other tech-giants such as Microsoft and
Google. Jeff also shared new research on the Apple New Product Process, Apple store counts
domestically and internationally, and the % of tweets by mobile platform in cities with and without
Apple stores. After reviewing conference call transcripts of its new CFO Luca Maestri, formerly CFO at
Xerox, Jeff believes that AAPL will increase its share repurchases.

The following remaining finalists, after being selected from a larger pool of submitted entries, also
competed in the contest:

Evan Dryland (MBA 2015) proposed buying Bonanza Creek Energy (NYSE: BCEI, PPS $48, Target
PPS $60 Q4 2015), an oil and natural gas E&P company. Based on strong production opportunities
in the Wattenberg Field in Colorado (50% growth forecasted in 2014), Evan expects 25% upside.


Owens Huang (MBA 2015) pitched buying WisdomTree (NASDAQ: WETF, PPS $12, Target PPS
$15 Q1 2015), targeting 30% returns. As the only public pure-play ETF provider, Owens believes
that WETF could expand margins as it increases assets under management.

Abhimanyu Sanghi (MBA 2015) pitched buying Amerco (NASDAQ: UHAL, PPS $249, Target PPS
$337 Q2 2015), the parent company of U-Haul trucks and storage. Abhimanyus thesis highlighted
the companys enduring moat and impossible to replicate dealer network with more US
locations than Starbucks. Now that a major competitor, Avis, is reducing its competitive presence,
Abhimanyu believes that UHAL is poised to pick up market share.

Bryce Webster (MBA 2015) presented buying FTI Consulting (NYSE: FCN, PPS $33, Target PPS
$40 Q2 2015). According to Bryce, FCN is a low beta, counter-cyclical stock that could benefit from
either a pickup in bankruptcies or further increases in M&A activity. After the outsized market
reaction to FCNs lower 1Q guidance, Bryce explained that the stock is attractively priced.

SIMR is pleased with the success of the inaugural Stern Investment Idea Contest, and plans to make it an
annual spring event going forward. Please stay in touch with Jeff Nathan and Bryce Webster for details.


First Place Winner Stern Investment Idea Contest

Scott is a first year MBA student at NYU Stern. Prior to attending Stern, Scott spent six
years at Bank of America Merrill Lynch, where he traded asset-backed commercial
paper, repo, and total return swaps on equity and equity-linked securities. This
summer, Scott will be interning in J.P. Morgans equity research department. Scott is a
2007 graduate of Wake Forest University and a CFA Charterholder. Scott can be
reached at [email protected].

Scott Farmer

BUY Urban Outfitters, Inc. (NASDAQ: URBN)
Current Price: $36 (April 2014)
Price Target: $43
Potential Upside: ~20%
Time Horizon: 1 year
Primary Valuation: 17.6x 2015 EPS

Summary: Comps and square-footage growth at Anthropologie and Free People, a new omni-channel
inventory management system, and better fashion execution will catalyze EPS growth above the
expectations of a market that is myopically valuing the company.

Company Background: URBN operates the retail clothing and accessories stores Urban Outfitters,
Anthropologie, Free People, and Terrain/BHLDN (45%, 40%, 13%, and 2% of revenue, respectively).
Urban Outfitters targets culturally sophisticated and peer-acceptance seeking men/women aged 18-28,
Anthropologie targets sophisticated women aged 28-45, Free People targets contemporary-minded
women aged 25-30, Terrain targets the sophisticated outdoor living and gardening segment, and BHLDN
targets the bridal market. URBN has underperformed its peers in the past few years because of past
fashion execution shortfalls and inventory gluts forcing gross margin compression.

Thesis #1: High comps and square-footage growth: Despite underperformance in the Urban Outfitters
segment, fashion execution and customer resiliency will drive 2014 and 2015 comps growth of 6% at
Anthropologie and 12% at Free People. Additionally, Anthropologie and Free People will continue to add
square footage at a rate of 8% and 14% annually, respectively, in line with previous years.

Thesis #2: New inventory management system: A new inventory management system introduced in
3Q FY2014 will increasingly allow for online order fulfilment to be made out of in-store inventory, which
will reduce usage of promotional and clearance pricing by dynamically placing inventory in the
geographic regions where it can be sold at the highest price. This enhanced omni-channel integration
will help to maintain gross margins at 38-40% and reduce inventory per square-foot, freeing up working
capital.

Thesis #3: Management is refocused: Management and design staffing changes in the past five years
have led to fashion misses and inventory gluts. With stable leadership finally in place, I expect an

improved marketing message, an upward inflection in comps, better on-point fashion execution (thus
reducing markdowns and gross margin compression), and more accurate inventory ordering.

Thesis #4: Investing alongside management: The CEO (and founder), Dick Hayne, owns 19.2% of
share outstanding. Additionally, on April 1, URBN disclosed the repurchase and retirement of 4.5MM
shares at an average cost of $35.82. I expect that if shares continue to remain in the mid $30s range,
URBN could repurchase an additional 4-5MM shares out of its remaining repurchase authorization.

Primary Risk: Like all specialty retailers, the largest risk to URBN is poor fashion execution leading to
clearance pricing and lower margins. This is mitigated by the companys recent efforts to reduce lead
times by using third-party products and shortening its own internal design cycle, so that inventory is
ordered closer to when fashion trends become clear. An additional risk is the broader shift away from
brick-and-mortar retailing. This is mitigated by URBNs strong internet presence (one of the first
specialty retailers to have an internet store; generates roughly 25-28% of net sales online) and URBNs
growing omni-channel shopping infrastructure.

What the market is missing: Specialty retailers targeting teens (e.g., American Eagle, Abercrombie,
Tillys, Aeropostale) are all trading near 52-week lows because of persistent price discounting, a broader
decline in mall foot traffic, and strong competitive pressures from Fast Retailers (e.g., H&M and Forever
21) and internet shopping, in general. Given expectations for a continued competitive environment, I
have modeled 3-4% comps for the Urban Outfitters segment (still below historical means of 4-6%
comps). Fortunately, strength in the adult segments (Anthropologie, Free People) will continue to drive
growth, which the market is missing.

Valuation: URBN is currently trading at 17.6x forward P/E. My model assumes that gross margins
stabilize at 38-40%, comps grow modestly compared to prior years, and the company continues to open
stores in line with management projections. Additionally, I assume that the company will continue to
repurchase shares over the next two years. Using multiples unchanged from current level results in a
price target of $42.90 off of estimated CY2015 EPS of $2.44. Notably, the forward P/E is well below its
5yr average of 20.67x (high: 29.45x, low: 12.02x).

Catalysts: The street is concerned that URBN will be unable to improve comps and maintain margins in
the face of the competitive headwinds facing specialty retail. As such there is no firmly defined catalyst
event, but rather the soft catalyst of steady execution over the next year. Share price improvement will
come as URBNs operating results confirm that they are successfully implementing fashion and
operational improvements that improve comps (or maintain comps, in the case of Anthropologie and
Free People), increase square footage, and maintain gross margins at existing levels. I expect that the
market will need to see a full years (e.g., spring fashion, back-to-school, holiday shopping cycles) worth
of operating results to fully price the sustainability of this improvement.

Summary: This is an opportunity to buy a stock with high growth opportunities, efficient inventory
management, and skilled, aligned leadership with 20% upside to $43 per share based on 17.6x 2015 EPS.


Second Place Winner Stern Investment Idea Contest

Tim is a first year MBA student at NYU Stern. This summer, Tim will intern at
Fidelity Investments in Boston as an equity research analyst. Prior to Stern, Tim was
an equity research analyst at Deutsche Bank. He was the lead analyst for small cap
lodging REITs and the senior research associate focused on the lodging industry.
Prior to this, Tim worked on the real estate finance equity research team at
Deutsche Bank. Before Deutsche Bank, Tim was an actuarial analyst at Guy
Carpenter, a reinsurance brokerage firm that is a Marsh & McLennan company. He
graduated with honors in 2004 with a BS from the Wharton School at the University
of Pennsylvania. Tim can be reached at [email protected].
Tim Wengerd

Short ULTA Salon, Cosmetics & Fragrance, Inc. (NasdaqGS: ULTA)
Price Target: $66
Potential Gain: 25%
Time Horizon: 2 years
Primary Valuation: 16X 2015 EPS

Summary: ULTAs high growth story is in the process of breaking. ULTA is further along in its life cycle
than earnings expectations and valuation multiples imply. Upcoming earnings announcements will serve
as catalysts for corrections in the stock. I believe fair value for ULTA shares is $66, implying 26%
downside from current levels.

Long-Term Growth Assumptions are Aggressive: Since June 2012, ULTA has consistently told
investors that the companys long-term target is for 1,200 stores in the U.S., based on ULTAs real estate
analysis. ULTA currently has 675 stores (7.2M gross sq. ft.), and based on managements 15% annual
growth guidance, ULTA has ~4 years of footprint growth. I believe a more appropriate footprint size is
between 900-1,000 stores based on the size of retailers with similar real estate strategies. ULTA is closer
to maturity than consensus believes.
Given the size of mature retailers in similar locations, 1,200 is the maximum penetration ULTA can
achieve. ULTAs brand positioning is to offer a one-stop solution for mass, salon, and prestige beauty
products as well as salon services. ULTAs store layout is large, at 10.5K sqft, predominantly located in
off-mall power centers with multiple big-box retailers. TJ Maxx, Old Navy, Pier 1, Best Buy, and Bed
Bath & Beyond are all example retailers mentioned by mall REITs as cohabitants in the same power
centers as ULTA. Each of these retailers operates under 1,100 stores and has reached maturity. Bath
& Body Works, a mature mall-based personal care specialty retailer with minor overlap with ULTA,
operates 1,600 stores, but its stores are 1/4th of the size of ULTAs stores.
Sephora, ULTAs chief pure-play competitor, is expanding into ULTAs markets through regional mall
locations within JCPenney stores. JCP management claims Sephora is its most successful store-in-
store concept. Sephora units within JCP increased 16% in CY13, and currently stand in 446 of JCPs
1,100 stores. JCPs investment plan for 2014 indicates that Sephora in JCP will be a focus area
additional investment. As Sephora expands into regional malls, ULTAs market share opportunity will
come under pressure, accelerating ULTAs maturity.

In December, ULTA lowered long-term sqft. growth expectations to +15% annually from 15-20%, but
management has not backed away from its 1,200 unit target. Sell-side consensus assumes 15%
growth through the end of 2015. Assuming 15% growth in CY14, ULTA will be more than 80% to
maturity based on a 950 store potential. I expect square footage growth to further decelerate to 10%
in CY15.
Lyn Kirby, ULTAs CEO from 1999-2010, became CEO of Beauty Brands in 2014 following the
expiration of her non-compete agreement. Beauty Brands is a privately owned, small-store format
similar to ULTA. The company has 55 stores currently, but has national ambitions. Ms. Kirby presided
over ULTAs early rapid growth, and her 10+ year tenure with ULTA suggests that she understands
ULTAs strengths, weaknesses, and relationships extremely well. The national expansion of Beauty
Brands will erode the market opportunity for ULTA.
As sqft growth slows, comps will decelerate to +2-3%. New units achieve 70% productivity in year 1,
and I assume achieve 100% productivity by the end of year 3, implying 20% comp growth in years 2-
3. Backing out the comp growth of 2-3 yr old stores (30% of comp base) implies stores >3 years
generate comparable sales growth of +2-3%.

Margin Expectations are too high: Despite ULTAs guidance reduction and lowered sell-side estimates
in December, forward EPS estimates remain too high.
Despite headwinds to ULTAs growth and margins, consensus models margin expansion over the next
two years. Management has suspended long-term operating margin guidance of in the mid-teens
pointing to increasing investment in distribution, technology, and multi-channel capabilities. Still, sell-
side estimates since ULTAs March report model an aggregate 30 bps of margin expansion from 2013
to 2015 from 12.3%.
Double-digit growth in both prestige and mass color cosmetics drove a 280 bps increase in margins in
2011. Since then, category growth has slowed, inhibiting margin growth. Current trends in these
categories continue to slow while the nail and fragrance categories have also begun to decelerate.
This weaker category growth will hinder comp growth while also limiting operating leverage. Despite
decelerating operating leverage, updated consensus is building in margin growth in 2014 and 2015.
Amidst slowing category growth, promotional intensity is increasing amongst competitors. ULTA
pointed to increased promotional activity as a reason for lowering 2013 guidance in December.
Elevated promotional intensity seems likely to persist, given slowing category growth and increased
competition, including from the ecommerce channel. Namely, Amazon has increased its focus within
beauty, launching a luxury beauty shop in October.
Aside from increased promotional activity, SG&A leverage will decline due to investments in the
supply chain and multi-channel capabilities.

CEO Track Record: ULTAs CEO, Mary Dillon, joined the company in June from US Cellular. During her
time as CEO at US Cellular, USM underperformed the S&P500 Telecommunication Services Index by
65%.

Valuation: I value ULTA at $66, which is based on 16x 2015E EPS of $4.00 (vs. consensus of $4.36). My
target PE multiple is based on the median PEG for retailers with 12-20% 2 year earnings CAGRs. My
target PE and target price is similar when I use a basket of high growth retailers.


Third Place Winner Stern Investment Idea Contest

Jeff Nathan is a first year MBA student at NYU Stern. Prior to Stern, he focused on investment
diligence in public equities for an investment firm. Jeff was also a Vice President at Atlas Holdings
LLC, a private equity firm specializing in control equity investing in distressed companies. He
holds a BA from Washington University in St. Louis. Jeff will be interning at T. Rowe Price this
summer and can be reached at [email protected].

BUY Apple, Inc. (NASDAQ: AAPL)
Price Target: $720
Potential Upside: ~40%
Time Horizon: 2 years
Primary Valuation: 10X 2015 earnings ex. cash
Summary: Apples immense secrecy and a negative news cycle have caused a remarkable level of
misunderstanding about its business, resulting in a record low valuation. However, net income growth and
multiple expansion by 2015, in addition to a few catalysts such as new product introductions and a new CFO, will
accelerate growth in share price from $525 to $720, or a return of about 40%.

Overview: Apple has the lowest valuation in its history at about 9 times earnings (ex cash) as of April 2014, and it
sits in the lowest decile of valuation multiples among all public stocks. This is because a number of stories about
Apple over the last two years, including public interviews with Larry Ellison, have made investors fearful of three
major themes: Apple repeating its failure in the 1990s, Apple repeating the failure of Nokia/Blackberry, and a
crisis of innovation
Thesis #1: False Analogy to the 1990s. Apples near failure in the 1990s was primarily caused by poorly received
and chaotic product lines combined with keeping prices unrealistically high to maintain margins over 50%. Today
Apple has the best selling laptop, tablet and phones in the world, hitting new sales records in December 2013, and
it maintains margins over 40% through immense scale advantages rather than high prices. Additionally, while
Apple lost the PC software developer community to other platforms in the 1990s, today Apple is tied in a two-way
race with Google for the mobile software developer community. Nearly all of the 400 startups at NY Tech Day 2014
was working on Apple or Android apps, and almost none were working on Microsoft or other platforms.
Thesis #2: Apple wont become Nokia or Blackberry. Three reasons. Reason #1: the iPod. If fortunes in tech
always rise and fall, then another company should have taken share from the iPod, which was introduced in 2002.
Instead, the average price of the iPod has stayed around $150 and Apple has held a 75% market share in portable
music players for over a decade. Why is this? Reason #2: Apple is the only company that can seamlessly combine
hardware, software, and services (itunes, apps). Nokia lost its lead in mobile phones, because they couldnt catch
up with Apples software or services (apps). Blackberry lost because they never had better hardware, software, or
services and overestimated the stickiness of enterprise. What about enterprise? Reason #3: BYOD. While
historically purchasing decisions were made by CIOs, today corporate purchasing decisions are being made
through decentralized budgets at the department level, which not only favors Apple but is also stickier.
Thesis #3: Apples new product process is completely misunderstood. Thanks to excellent and strategic PR,
Apples innovative products have appeared to be occasional miraculous discoveries. Only in late 2013 did a book
about Jony Ive reveal a clue as to the real reason for the slow cadence of new products introductions. Known as the
Apple New Product Process (ANPP), ANPP is a form of concurrent engineering perfected by Apple in the early
2000s that details exactly what Apples functional divisions do simultaneously at every stage for every product,
including design, engineering, operations, marketing, after-market support. Under ANPP, Apples new product
launches are less like Joan of Arc inspirations, and more like more methodical, meticulous, well-timed invasions.
ANPP allows Apple to secretly do fantastically complex and detailed work in utter secrecy -- i.e. the record setting

R&D, hires, and patents in new categories such as biometrics, pens, televisions, VR, wallets, and wearables since
2011 -- and then all at once reveal groundbreaking products at record scale.
Valuation: Current enterprise value is $330 billion, comprised of a market capitalization of $470 billion and net
cash of $140 billion, which is about a 9-times multiple of $37 billion earnings in LTM December 2013. Assuming
2% revenue growth in 2014 and 10% revenue growth in 2015, as well as maintaining margins at 37.5%, which is
the lowest since 2008, Apple will generate net income of about $42 billion in 2015. Assuming both (1) the market
gains greater confidence in Apples future, increasing its valuation to 10-times earnings and (2) Apple uses its cash
predominantly for repurchases, Apples share price would appreciate from $525 to $720 per share by 2015.
Key Points
Apple competes in huge and growing markets. Despite record iOS device sales in December 2013, Apple still
only holds about 15% of the worldwide market for smartphones, 33% of the worldwide market for tablet
computers, and 5% of the worldwide market for computers. Moreover, the smartphone and tablet markets are
expected to grow 70% and 100% by 2017.
Many OECD markets are untapped, not because of price, but because theres no physical presence. With 1.5
domestic stores for every international store, and 1 US citizen for every 4 people in the OECD, theres immense
potential for Apple to expand its showrooms internationally. For example, while most of the U.S. population lives
within 15 miles of an Apple store, Apple opened its first store in Istanbul in 2 014. Maps comparing the type of
tweets by mobile platform in the U.S. against Istanbul are very revealing (Apple is red, Blackberry is purple).esv
Twitter data and images from Mapbox.com
Product Roadmap shows many new products will be introduced in 2014. In April 2014, an Apple industry
analyst with a track record of accurate predictions in 2012 and 2013 (and perhaps some questionable connections
in Taiwan) released Apples product roadmap for 2014, which shows a larger screen iPhone 6, an iPad Air 2 & iPad
Mini 3, a new Macbook, and two new iWatches (large & small). These products will drive 2015 growth.
New CFO will be more aggressive with share repurchases, causing an expansion in valuation multiple. New
Apple CFO Luca Maestri was CFO of Xerox from February 2011 to November 2012, where he introduced a policy of
using 70% of available cash for share buybacks. His transcripts from his time as CFO of Xerox are revealing,
including this quote from May 2011: Share repurchase is our primary focus. It would be more than 70% of our
available cash in 2011 and 2012. And we are targeting the majority of our available cash over the next 5 years for
share repurchases. It is truly the primary focus of the company and we've been consistent about it and it is what
we're going to do during the course of this year, next year and for the foreseeable future. Under Maestri, Apple will
likely introduce a policy of using a percentage of available cash for share repurchases.


EVALUATION GET INVOLVED!

This is just the second issue of EVALUATION, but going forward we aim to grow and cultivate the
publication, with a goal of putting out one newsletter per academic semester. Our mission is two-fold, (1)
to broadly spread awareness of research and investing to interested parties and (2) to foster a greater
connection between NYU students and alumni in the investment community. On that front, if you would
like to get involved, or provide us with feedback, please dont hesitate to reach out. In addition, if you
would like to be added to our newsletter e-distribution list going forward, please send us your contact
information. Thanks for reading!

Visit our student club affiliation, Stern Investment Management & Research Society, on the web:
http://nyustern.campusgroups.com/simr/home/

Connect with SIMR students/alums on LinkedIn!
Stern Investment Management & Research Society (SIMR) Alumni

EVALUATION Spring 2014 Editors

Bryce is a first year MBA student at NYU Stern. This summer Bryce will be interning at
Numina Capital Management, an event-driven hedge fund in NYC. Prior to attending
Stern, Bryce spent four years working in real estate investing at Gramercy Capital
Corp., a hybrid debt and equity REIT. He primarily focused on commercial mortgage-
backed securities (CMBS), but also evaluated real estate equity deals. Prior to
Gramercy, Bryce worked in the structured finance ratings group at Moody's Investors
Service. Bryce received a B.S. in Industrial and Labor Relations from Cornell University
and is a CFA Charterholder.

Bryce Webster
[email protected]

Brian is a first year MBA student at NYU Stern specializing in Finance and Accounting.
This summer Brian will be interning at JP Morgan in equity research. Prior to
attending Stern, Brian worked in the Private Client Group at Wells Fargo Advisors
where he constructed and managed investment portfolios on a discretionary basis for a
select group of individuals and families. Brian earned his Bachelor of Business
Administration from James Madison University and is a CFA Charterholder.

Brian C. Jones
[email protected]

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