675 reviews
How to talk about "Triangle" without giving anything away? It's a puzzle equal to that which the movie presents its audience, because this isn't your standard horror movie. It has more in common with plot-twisting movies such as "Momento" and "The Machinist" than the gory likes of "Halloween" or "Ghost Ship".
Perhaps a good start is offer some praise to the director Christopher Smith whose work i've been a fan of since "Creep". I also greatly enjoyed his follow-up "Severence", but "Triangle" is easily his most mature effort so far; and the entire movie has an almost dream-like atmosphere to it. It certainly looks beautiful and the haunting music adds to this ambiance.
Melissa George, who plays the central role here, is quietly impressive; she's never really been an actress who has stood out to me in her previous roles, and so it was a pleasant surprise to see her rising to the occasion of taking center stage. It's only a shame that her character is so haunted and inaccessible. This isn't George's fault; the role is written in a way which keeps her detached not only from the other characters but also from the moviegoers. She's constantly aloof and distracted which can be initially annoying; it's hard to care for a character which you can't warm to.
I would certainly applaud the makers for attempting something different to the standard horror story (although, I do admit that it is very similar in theme to one other recent movie that you'll probably see mentioned a few times in the forum for "Triangle") and I certainly enjoyed the experience. I'd recommend staying away from learning too much about the plot beforehand (the trailer, in particular, gives far too much away) if at all possible.
"Triangle" is very much like a movie-length version of a "Twilight Zone" episode but its also a very flawed piece. There's an intelligence at work in the script; the way in which the pieces of the puzzle are presented to the audience is done in a skilled manner but it also suffers from thinking it's far cleverer than it actually is. There are plot holes to be found by those who dwell on the story, and the ending isn't quite as neat as the movie believes it to be.
Still, this is an impressive effort and well worth checking out (especially if you're a fan of the two superior movies mentioned earlier - "Momento" and "The Machinist"). In a world in which cinematic horror tends to involve torture and cheap shocks, it's nice to find a more psychological effort that looks for other ways to creep under your skin.
Perhaps a good start is offer some praise to the director Christopher Smith whose work i've been a fan of since "Creep". I also greatly enjoyed his follow-up "Severence", but "Triangle" is easily his most mature effort so far; and the entire movie has an almost dream-like atmosphere to it. It certainly looks beautiful and the haunting music adds to this ambiance.
Melissa George, who plays the central role here, is quietly impressive; she's never really been an actress who has stood out to me in her previous roles, and so it was a pleasant surprise to see her rising to the occasion of taking center stage. It's only a shame that her character is so haunted and inaccessible. This isn't George's fault; the role is written in a way which keeps her detached not only from the other characters but also from the moviegoers. She's constantly aloof and distracted which can be initially annoying; it's hard to care for a character which you can't warm to.
I would certainly applaud the makers for attempting something different to the standard horror story (although, I do admit that it is very similar in theme to one other recent movie that you'll probably see mentioned a few times in the forum for "Triangle") and I certainly enjoyed the experience. I'd recommend staying away from learning too much about the plot beforehand (the trailer, in particular, gives far too much away) if at all possible.
"Triangle" is very much like a movie-length version of a "Twilight Zone" episode but its also a very flawed piece. There's an intelligence at work in the script; the way in which the pieces of the puzzle are presented to the audience is done in a skilled manner but it also suffers from thinking it's far cleverer than it actually is. There are plot holes to be found by those who dwell on the story, and the ending isn't quite as neat as the movie believes it to be.
Still, this is an impressive effort and well worth checking out (especially if you're a fan of the two superior movies mentioned earlier - "Momento" and "The Machinist"). In a world in which cinematic horror tends to involve torture and cheap shocks, it's nice to find a more psychological effort that looks for other ways to creep under your skin.
"You're just having a bad dream. That's all baby. It's all it was. Bad dreams make you think you've seen things that you haven't."
Triangle is a very good movie about Melissa George's perfect legs, and how they...wait, let me try this again.
Triangle is actually an effective, intelligent, layered horror/thriller (starring Melissa George's perfect legs). I can't go into the story very much, as there's not much detail that can be given out with ruining it. I'll just say that a curiously detached young mother and a group of people go out sailing one gorgeous day, get caught in a storm, and find themselves shipwrecked. A massive approaching ocean liner appears to bring salvation, but once they're on-board, it seems strangely deserted. Soon people start dying, and the plot takes a sharp left turn that puts it at a cut above the typical slasher flick that Triangle seems to be at first glance.
I'll admit that I was a little underwhelmed by the movie at first, but it definitely gets much better as it goes along. I really have to give the movie credit for how clever and ambitious it attempts (and succeeds) to be. The best description of Triangle I can give without ruining anything is a combination of The Shining and Donnie Darko, with a really hot lead actress. It's mind-bending in just the right way. There were lots of different points that the story could have fallen apart and stopped making sense, but that never happened. By the end, there are no loose ends. And I'll add that the title is particularly meaningful.
If you're open-minded, attentive, and ready for something slightly different, chances are that you'll love this movie. I certainly enjoyed it.
Triangle is a very good movie about Melissa George's perfect legs, and how they...wait, let me try this again.
Triangle is actually an effective, intelligent, layered horror/thriller (starring Melissa George's perfect legs). I can't go into the story very much, as there's not much detail that can be given out with ruining it. I'll just say that a curiously detached young mother and a group of people go out sailing one gorgeous day, get caught in a storm, and find themselves shipwrecked. A massive approaching ocean liner appears to bring salvation, but once they're on-board, it seems strangely deserted. Soon people start dying, and the plot takes a sharp left turn that puts it at a cut above the typical slasher flick that Triangle seems to be at first glance.
I'll admit that I was a little underwhelmed by the movie at first, but it definitely gets much better as it goes along. I really have to give the movie credit for how clever and ambitious it attempts (and succeeds) to be. The best description of Triangle I can give without ruining anything is a combination of The Shining and Donnie Darko, with a really hot lead actress. It's mind-bending in just the right way. There were lots of different points that the story could have fallen apart and stopped making sense, but that never happened. By the end, there are no loose ends. And I'll add that the title is particularly meaningful.
If you're open-minded, attentive, and ready for something slightly different, chances are that you'll love this movie. I certainly enjoyed it.
- lewiskendell
- Nov 18, 2010
- Permalink
I just came back from the world premiere at FrightFest in London, it was the festival opener as well so expectations were high and it didn't disappoint! Much better than Creep and Severance, this is Christopher Smith's most ambitious film. A mind-bending story that is as puzzling as it is original, Triangle is more a mystery than a horror movie in my opinion. Gorehounds will be sorely disappointed. This is more about a situation which becomes more and more surreal, almost dream-like, I thought during the film that I've had similar nightmares as a kid... nightmares going around in circles and getting more and more frightening because I knew when or how the monster would inevitably come back...
The plot (no spoilers): after their yacht is overturned during a freak storm, a group of friends are desperate for help. A cruise ship suddenly appears and they see a figure looking down at them from the bridge for a few seconds. They climb on board but there is no crew, no passengers, nothing. Saying anything more would be ruining the movie, so I'll stop here.
After the movie ended in a round of applause, Christopher Smith said that it took him 2 years to write the script, and in the end it's not surprising as this is a very complex plot and to make all the pieces fall into place must have been a daunting task! Good acting by Melissa George and the rest of the cast, but her haunting performance takes center stage very quickly as the movie goes on a WTF / Twilight Zone-ish mode. All in all I recommend it, I really enjoyed it and it kept me guessing the whole time so if you like unconventional, mind-f*** movies, this is one for you!
The plot (no spoilers): after their yacht is overturned during a freak storm, a group of friends are desperate for help. A cruise ship suddenly appears and they see a figure looking down at them from the bridge for a few seconds. They climb on board but there is no crew, no passengers, nothing. Saying anything more would be ruining the movie, so I'll stop here.
After the movie ended in a round of applause, Christopher Smith said that it took him 2 years to write the script, and in the end it's not surprising as this is a very complex plot and to make all the pieces fall into place must have been a daunting task! Good acting by Melissa George and the rest of the cast, but her haunting performance takes center stage very quickly as the movie goes on a WTF / Twilight Zone-ish mode. All in all I recommend it, I really enjoyed it and it kept me guessing the whole time so if you like unconventional, mind-f*** movies, this is one for you!
Jess (Melissa George) is a single mother struggling to raise her autistic son. While working her job at a diner, she become friends with one of the customers, a playboy type named Greg who invites her on a yachting trip with he and his friends. Desperate for a break from her son, she takes him up on his offer. The day of the trip, she's late getting to the boat and arrives flustered. She says that her son is at school, but it's a Saturday. Despite her questionable frame of mind, Greg introduces her to the group (including uptight sister, Sally, and his first mate, Victor, both of whom are vocal in their reservations about her) and off they go. It's smooth sailing at first, but an out of nowhere storm leaves the boat capsized and the remaining passengers stranded. They think they're in luck when an ocean liner passes by, though boarding the ship is just the beginning of things going from bad to worse.
This is the third film I've seen from director Christopher Smith. Creep left me unimpressed, but I liked Severance well enough, shoddy ending aside. This, however, is easily the most rewarding of the three. What looked like it would be your typical slasher set on a ship turns out to be something far more intriguing. What we get instead is a mind-bending little trip with an obtuse mood and a curving story. I can see some people thinking of the film as being too repetitive, but I was caught up in the mystery right off the bat. This is a well put together film with some interesting questions at it's core. While it's not completely fresh (there are some definite similarities to Timecrimes), it still kept it's hooks in me for the duration. Smith put a lot of time into the script, reportedly a few years, and I feel that it paid off.
Triangle also wraps up with it's own unique explanation, one that's Sisyphean in theme. Another of the film's top qualities would be the strength of some of it's visuals, the most notable example being Sally crawling amidst something that I will leave unspoiled. A wicked sight and a sure shock when it pops up.
This film deserved to play in theaters. Aside from the fact that it's far superior to a lot of the horror that gets theater play these days, it's just a damn fine film that would benefit from being seen on the big screen. The Blu-ray is beautiful! Regardless, Christopher Smith has given us a haunting treat that will continue to fester in your mind long after that initial viewing. A must-see!
This is the third film I've seen from director Christopher Smith. Creep left me unimpressed, but I liked Severance well enough, shoddy ending aside. This, however, is easily the most rewarding of the three. What looked like it would be your typical slasher set on a ship turns out to be something far more intriguing. What we get instead is a mind-bending little trip with an obtuse mood and a curving story. I can see some people thinking of the film as being too repetitive, but I was caught up in the mystery right off the bat. This is a well put together film with some interesting questions at it's core. While it's not completely fresh (there are some definite similarities to Timecrimes), it still kept it's hooks in me for the duration. Smith put a lot of time into the script, reportedly a few years, and I feel that it paid off.
Triangle also wraps up with it's own unique explanation, one that's Sisyphean in theme. Another of the film's top qualities would be the strength of some of it's visuals, the most notable example being Sally crawling amidst something that I will leave unspoiled. A wicked sight and a sure shock when it pops up.
This film deserved to play in theaters. Aside from the fact that it's far superior to a lot of the horror that gets theater play these days, it's just a damn fine film that would benefit from being seen on the big screen. The Blu-ray is beautiful! Regardless, Christopher Smith has given us a haunting treat that will continue to fester in your mind long after that initial viewing. A must-see!
- fahnenjoker
- Mar 9, 2019
- Permalink
- blackjackel
- May 15, 2014
- Permalink
A small boat capsizes in the see and the people aboard must go to a large ship for help. But this ship is empty, with the exception of a lone killer acting out of unexplained motives... and then the plot goes from mundane to bizarre.
This film is written and directed by Christopher Smith, who made a few waves with his 2006 film "Severance". I think this is really going to be his break-out project, so long as enough people catch it. The plot is intelligent and tight, the directing is masterful, and the cast is kept in line.
Melissa George has been praised for this film, and I think that's fair. She has up until now been very second fiddle, and despite good performances in films like "Amityville Horror", never really got her due. This film is it -- she is front and center for the entire running time, showing her most anguished character possible.
There are few problem with this film. It does run a bit long, but not so long that it's unbearable... the first twenty minutes are bland, but it picks up after that. The biggest problem, which is unfortunate, is that this film was released after "Timecrimes"... and there are some similarities, even if minor, and critics will jump on this. But, if anything, this made me enjoy the film more rather than less, because it was like reliving the mindbend that "Timecrimes" gave me.
I completely endorse this film, and strongly recommend it to any horror or suspense fan. You may enjoy the subtle references to "The Shining", or simply the interesting and deep plot. And, at least as I write this (August 2010), the film is an instant play on Netflix, so you do not have to go out of your way to find it.
This film is written and directed by Christopher Smith, who made a few waves with his 2006 film "Severance". I think this is really going to be his break-out project, so long as enough people catch it. The plot is intelligent and tight, the directing is masterful, and the cast is kept in line.
Melissa George has been praised for this film, and I think that's fair. She has up until now been very second fiddle, and despite good performances in films like "Amityville Horror", never really got her due. This film is it -- she is front and center for the entire running time, showing her most anguished character possible.
There are few problem with this film. It does run a bit long, but not so long that it's unbearable... the first twenty minutes are bland, but it picks up after that. The biggest problem, which is unfortunate, is that this film was released after "Timecrimes"... and there are some similarities, even if minor, and critics will jump on this. But, if anything, this made me enjoy the film more rather than less, because it was like reliving the mindbend that "Timecrimes" gave me.
I completely endorse this film, and strongly recommend it to any horror or suspense fan. You may enjoy the subtle references to "The Shining", or simply the interesting and deep plot. And, at least as I write this (August 2010), the film is an instant play on Netflix, so you do not have to go out of your way to find it.
- claudio_carvalho
- Aug 27, 2010
- Permalink
- Ashrafi_Abdoelkarim
- Jul 15, 2021
- Permalink
This movie is really amazing. I recommend it a 100%. It plays with your mind from the very beginning until the very end. It just makes you think all the time and even when the credits roll you are left thinking and considering, and I mean that in the good way. Some movies leave you thinking "Why did that happen? It made no sense whatsoever.". Not this. However, in order to understand everything you must really pay attention to all the details, some lines, some specific shots and then I promise, it will all make sense. Of course, if you have someone to discuss it with after it is over, will make things a lot more interesting and engaging. I just want to say that this movie is not a horror and doesn't have any "jump" moments. It is a pure mystery and I am sure that any mystery fan would truly enjoy the experience.
I am not going to give away anything concerning the plot, because this will just spoil the pleasure from all the twists and turns this movie takes you through. This is my advice: Do not read anything about this movie or watch any trailers, before you actually see it. Believe me, it is going to be a lot more fun like this. The story is extremely engaging and the end is very satisfying. New elements are constantly added when you least expect them and the movie actually answers all the questions it asks, or at least provides you with enough clues to solve the puzzles yourself.
Melissa George gives probably her best performance up to date. She really helps a lot in making the movie what it is. She has a great potential in her as an actress and I hope this opens even more doors for her.
All I can say is, see this movie! You will not be disappointed and it will keep you guessing and guessing and then surely make you talk a lot about it. Don't you just love when that happens?
I am not going to give away anything concerning the plot, because this will just spoil the pleasure from all the twists and turns this movie takes you through. This is my advice: Do not read anything about this movie or watch any trailers, before you actually see it. Believe me, it is going to be a lot more fun like this. The story is extremely engaging and the end is very satisfying. New elements are constantly added when you least expect them and the movie actually answers all the questions it asks, or at least provides you with enough clues to solve the puzzles yourself.
Melissa George gives probably her best performance up to date. She really helps a lot in making the movie what it is. She has a great potential in her as an actress and I hope this opens even more doors for her.
All I can say is, see this movie! You will not be disappointed and it will keep you guessing and guessing and then surely make you talk a lot about it. Don't you just love when that happens?
- halfxbreed23
- Jan 19, 2022
- Permalink
TRIANGLE is a story about regret, remorse, and second chances.
Jess (Melissa George) is on a sailing trip with friends when they encounter a freak storm that overturns their yacht. Jess and company happen upon what appears to be a derelict ship, adrift in the ocean.
Once aboard, it's not long before a murderous frenzy unfolds. This is repeated from various angles and points of view. Sound bizarre? It is! It's also riveting to watch, as pieces of the puzzle fall into place. If you've ever done something that you wish you could undo, fix, or erase completely, then this movie will hit a nerve. Ms. George is the center and circumference of the film. Watch her every move!
A wonderful brain-twister, this!...
Jess (Melissa George) is on a sailing trip with friends when they encounter a freak storm that overturns their yacht. Jess and company happen upon what appears to be a derelict ship, adrift in the ocean.
Once aboard, it's not long before a murderous frenzy unfolds. This is repeated from various angles and points of view. Sound bizarre? It is! It's also riveting to watch, as pieces of the puzzle fall into place. If you've ever done something that you wish you could undo, fix, or erase completely, then this movie will hit a nerve. Ms. George is the center and circumference of the film. Watch her every move!
A wonderful brain-twister, this!...
- azathothpwiggins
- Sep 15, 2020
- Permalink
Triangle is a very interesting and worthwhile film. Until it starts repeating itself at nausea. It builds up nice and slow, something that a lot of films are failing to do these days. Something is obviously not quite right before the cast even set-off. Once a deserted ghost ship enters the picture, it all questions and mysteries. The film is very similar to others out there, such as Timecrimes. Once you get the gist of it, you pretty much know how it's going to unfold. It's still a very interesting idea, and is very intriguing to watch. There is some very powerful imagery, such as a large pile of bodies, with a bit twist to them. Certainly a great watch for a bit of suspense and mystery, and it doesn't try and fry your brain too much either.
- SnakesOnAnAfricanPlain
- Dec 29, 2011
- Permalink
- Scarecrow-88
- May 1, 2010
- Permalink
Please don't read any reviews before you watch this one. (Even though you're reading now). This movie will take you in at the beginning and will not let you go (even when it's over)! Watch it without any distractions. You will love this hour and a 1/2 journey! I watched it on my laptop with my headphones on....just me and the movie. Awesome....awesome....awesome!
The movie starts out like any other. Friends going out on a sailboat ride. Shortly after the proper introductions there's a mysterious storm. In a matter of minutes they're trapped in raging waters. Then....this journey begins. Don't blink!
Trust me. I will earn my stripes on this review. Watch it!
The movie starts out like any other. Friends going out on a sailboat ride. Shortly after the proper introductions there's a mysterious storm. In a matter of minutes they're trapped in raging waters. Then....this journey begins. Don't blink!
Trust me. I will earn my stripes on this review. Watch it!
- carlshelley286
- Jan 23, 2010
- Permalink
"Triangle" delivers a captivating narrative that keeps viewers on the edge of their seats, constantly surprising them by deviating from the conventional and taking us on an entirely unexpected journey. The smart and twist-filled plot adds a complexity reminiscent of a cinematic experience akin to an acid trip, as if Christopher Nolan decided to delve into the horror genre.
Christopher Smith contributes to the tense and claustrophobic atmosphere aboard the ship, providing effective direction that results in a solid piece of work. Melissa George's performance as the protagonist is noteworthy, bringing emotional depth to the storyline.
However, the complexity of the story might be overwhelming for some viewers, leading to a sense of confusion that may not appeal to everyone. Additionally, some secondary characters lack development, hindering the audience's ability to emotionally connect with them. If these aspects were addressed, "Triangle" could potentially evolve into a masterpiece of the genre.
Christopher Smith contributes to the tense and claustrophobic atmosphere aboard the ship, providing effective direction that results in a solid piece of work. Melissa George's performance as the protagonist is noteworthy, bringing emotional depth to the storyline.
However, the complexity of the story might be overwhelming for some viewers, leading to a sense of confusion that may not appeal to everyone. Additionally, some secondary characters lack development, hindering the audience's ability to emotionally connect with them. If these aspects were addressed, "Triangle" could potentially evolve into a masterpiece of the genre.
- pedroquintaoo
- Feb 5, 2024
- Permalink
I went to see Triangle on a whim hoping it might be thrilling, entertaining or fun at least. I love it when a film exceeds your expectations like Triangle did.
Mellissa George stars as the lead in a small cast of young people on a yachting break off the coast of Florida who encounter a mysterious ship with no passengers after their yacht is upturned.
What follows is a complex and superbly written mystery that unfolds at a perfect pace. I spent most of the movie trying to work out what was going on, trying to piece together all the elements of the storyline. Christopher Smith has clearly spent a long time putting this film together with an intricately crafted deal of detail. I was gripped from the moment the yacht capsized.
The lead performance is excellent, superbly holding the plot together; and the supporting cast are more than passable. If you're looking for something a little different and you're happy to pay close attention to detail for an hour and a half, then I can thoroughly recommend Triangle as an original, well written and directed mystery that will keep you guessing until the final scene.
8/10.
Mellissa George stars as the lead in a small cast of young people on a yachting break off the coast of Florida who encounter a mysterious ship with no passengers after their yacht is upturned.
What follows is a complex and superbly written mystery that unfolds at a perfect pace. I spent most of the movie trying to work out what was going on, trying to piece together all the elements of the storyline. Christopher Smith has clearly spent a long time putting this film together with an intricately crafted deal of detail. I was gripped from the moment the yacht capsized.
The lead performance is excellent, superbly holding the plot together; and the supporting cast are more than passable. If you're looking for something a little different and you're happy to pay close attention to detail for an hour and a half, then I can thoroughly recommend Triangle as an original, well written and directed mystery that will keep you guessing until the final scene.
8/10.
- Magic_Lantern
- Oct 19, 2009
- Permalink
What an absolute gem of a movie Triangle is, it seemed to go very much under the radar, which was a huge shame, as it really is a clever, intriguing film that crosses several genres, thriller, horror, action etc.
A fantastic lead performance from the wonderful Melissa George, she is capable and charismatic enough to add a huge energy into the character, given something different to each 'version' of Jess. She's a brilliant actress.
On first watch you come away completely perplexed, but wonderfully entertained, this is a very cleverly crafted movie, which looks so good, and moves along at a great pace. Some hugely powerful imagery, Sally's death scene, and discovery of her 'other' selves is a very haunting moment. I also thought the arrival of the storm looked fantastic too.
Considering this was made as it were on the cheap, it's a quality film. 9/10.
A fantastic lead performance from the wonderful Melissa George, she is capable and charismatic enough to add a huge energy into the character, given something different to each 'version' of Jess. She's a brilliant actress.
On first watch you come away completely perplexed, but wonderfully entertained, this is a very cleverly crafted movie, which looks so good, and moves along at a great pace. Some hugely powerful imagery, Sally's death scene, and discovery of her 'other' selves is a very haunting moment. I also thought the arrival of the storm looked fantastic too.
Considering this was made as it were on the cheap, it's a quality film. 9/10.
- Sleepin_Dragon
- Sep 25, 2016
- Permalink
Regardless of the plot holes, it is an interesting and entertaining movie that never lets go the hand of the audience.
It could be slowed down in some point, and a little predictable, but after all you stay in your chair, completely absorbed.
A generic modern thriller, but still pretty good.
It could be slowed down in some point, and a little predictable, but after all you stay in your chair, completely absorbed.
A generic modern thriller, but still pretty good.
- DavCastaneda
- Jun 1, 2020
- Permalink
This film is not worth any of your time, let me start with that. I rented this from Red Box, thinking it might be a fun twist on the Bermuda Triangle or at least and entertaining B horror film...sadly I was wrong on both counts.
The film starts out decently, with most of the cast giving very believable performances...save for the lead who seems to almost never change her initial "I'm on too many painkillers" expression.
As the story finally hits its 2nd act it degrades into something that only really resembles swiss cheese. The amount of holes in this film are unbearable and ultimately any intelligent movie viewer will just feel stupid for trying to find any logic in the main characters actions or dilemma. I wont go through any details as calling them spoilers are worthless...the film makes no sense and relies completely on the characters simply being stupid.
I felt I needed to add a review because I really don't understand how this film has even a few good reviews....did you all even see the same film? Its an interesting concept for sure, but is just so poorly thought out and terribly written. Trust me on this. I'm not a hater, the film is legitimate crap recycled over and over until a climax that makes no sense with its supposed cyclical beginning. AVOID AS BEST YOU CAN!!!
The film starts out decently, with most of the cast giving very believable performances...save for the lead who seems to almost never change her initial "I'm on too many painkillers" expression.
As the story finally hits its 2nd act it degrades into something that only really resembles swiss cheese. The amount of holes in this film are unbearable and ultimately any intelligent movie viewer will just feel stupid for trying to find any logic in the main characters actions or dilemma. I wont go through any details as calling them spoilers are worthless...the film makes no sense and relies completely on the characters simply being stupid.
I felt I needed to add a review because I really don't understand how this film has even a few good reviews....did you all even see the same film? Its an interesting concept for sure, but is just so poorly thought out and terribly written. Trust me on this. I'm not a hater, the film is legitimate crap recycled over and over until a climax that makes no sense with its supposed cyclical beginning. AVOID AS BEST YOU CAN!!!