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Great Conversations
New Birth or Rebirth?: Jesus Talks with Krishna
Ultimate truth. The destiny of souls. The individual heart. Can Krishna and Jesus agree on anything?
This is what Subramaniam, a real-life Hindu of the twentieth century, wonders as he enters a fictitious conversation between two religious figures who have changed the lives of millions. As Jesus and Krishna respond to each other’s view of life and the afterlife, they speak words straight from the texts of Christianity and Hinduism and straight into the soul.
Subramaniam asks Jesus and Krishna hard questions about faith. Meanwhile, a fictional character, Richard, eavesdrops, asking himself the most important question of
Does it really matter what I believe?
This is what Subramaniam, a real-life Hindu of the twentieth century, wonders as he enters a fictitious conversation between two religious figures who have changed the lives of millions. As Jesus and Krishna respond to each other’s view of life and the afterlife, they speak words straight from the texts of Christianity and Hinduism and straight into the soul.
Subramaniam asks Jesus and Krishna hard questions about faith. Meanwhile, a fictional character, Richard, eavesdrops, asking himself the most important question of
Does it really matter what I believe?
96 pages, Hardcover
First published April 15, 2008
About the author
Ravi Zacharias
257 books1,662 followersRavi Zacharias was a speaker and an author of over 25 books. He fully believed the truth of Jesus Christ can endure the toughest critiques and spent nearly 50 years addressing life’s great existential questions of origin, meaning, morality, and destiny. He was founder and chairman of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (www.rzim.org), headquartered in Atlanta with sixteen offices worldwide. He and his wife, Margie, were married for almost 50 years before his passing in 2020.
[Biography and photograph from Zondervan's author detail page for Ravi Zacharias.]
Read Ravi Zacharias's obituary at rzim.org.
- - - - -
The following is a longer biography, which was a former biography at Zacharias's author detail page from Zondervan:
For over thirty-five years Ravi Zacharias has spoken all over the world in great halls and universities, notably Harvard, Princeton, and Oxford. He is listed as a distinguished lecturer with the Staley Foundation and has appeared on CNN and other international broadcasts. The author of several books for adults and children, he powerfully mixes biblical teaching and Christian apologetics. His most recent works include Walking from East to West, a memoir, The Grand Weaver, an exploration of God’s intention and pattern in both the ordinary and the startling elements of life, and The End of Reason, a rebuttal of the claims of the so-called New Atheists. His weekly radio program, Let My People Think, is broadcast over 1,500 stations worldwide, and his weekday program, Just Thinking, is on almost 400. He is founder and chairman of the board of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, with additional offices in Canada, India, Singapore, the United Kingdom, and the United Arab Emirates. Dr. Zacharias and his wife, Margie, have three grown children and reside in Atlanta.
[Biography and photograph from Zondervan's author detail page for Ravi Zacharias.]
Read Ravi Zacharias's obituary at rzim.org.
- - - - -
The following is a longer biography, which was a former biography at Zacharias's author detail page from Zondervan:
For over thirty-five years Ravi Zacharias has spoken all over the world in great halls and universities, notably Harvard, Princeton, and Oxford. He is listed as a distinguished lecturer with the Staley Foundation and has appeared on CNN and other international broadcasts. The author of several books for adults and children, he powerfully mixes biblical teaching and Christian apologetics. His most recent works include Walking from East to West, a memoir, The Grand Weaver, an exploration of God’s intention and pattern in both the ordinary and the startling elements of life, and The End of Reason, a rebuttal of the claims of the so-called New Atheists. His weekly radio program, Let My People Think, is broadcast over 1,500 stations worldwide, and his weekday program, Just Thinking, is on almost 400. He is founder and chairman of the board of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, with additional offices in Canada, India, Singapore, the United Kingdom, and the United Arab Emirates. Dr. Zacharias and his wife, Margie, have three grown children and reside in Atlanta.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 61 reviews
September 15, 2014
A pretty entertaining read. Trying to unpack the basic concepts of Hinduism and how they differ from the Christian gospel is a challenge. Ravi Zacharias has done an amazing job of communicating this and keeps it on the lower shelf for his readers. By writing this in a dialogue between Jesus and Krishna (and a couple of regular humans!) Ravi has hit on a way of communicating that moves the reader along in a way that is both instructive and entertaining.
My one critical point is that the book is one chapter - it's just one long dialogue. I don't have the attention span to read this all in one sitting but there were no natural places to take a break. I think having chapters or scene breaks or something would also be helpful as a tool in remembering the points. If you read it, I suggest taking notes or marking the book up a bit. I didn't do this and what ended up happening is that I forget many of the main concepts as I move on from one puzzling hindu concept to the next.
The gospel came forth loud and clear in this book though and if you are planning to reach out to Hindu people and you want a pretty easily read primer on the topic, this is a great first stop.
My one critical point is that the book is one chapter - it's just one long dialogue. I don't have the attention span to read this all in one sitting but there were no natural places to take a break. I think having chapters or scene breaks or something would also be helpful as a tool in remembering the points. If you read it, I suggest taking notes or marking the book up a bit. I didn't do this and what ended up happening is that I forget many of the main concepts as I move on from one puzzling hindu concept to the next.
The gospel came forth loud and clear in this book though and if you are planning to reach out to Hindu people and you want a pretty easily read primer on the topic, this is a great first stop.
July 29, 2016
Imagine what would happen if a religious leader from Hinduism and Christianity did a 90 minute YouTube debate comparing their religions. You would expect some nuggets of truth, but you'd also expect weak/incomplete arguments, reductionist treatments of various topics, and anecdotes. Now add on a debate moderator who was a convert to Christianity from Hinduism and that is close to how you might describe this book.
What this book is not: a defense of Hinduism against Christianity. It is not (and cannot) be an exhaustive explanation of the variations in Hinduism. What this book is: a casual discussion comparing both religions that ends in Christianity being ruled true. None of this should surprise anyone or be any sort of spoiler. It comes with the territory, though it is nice to understand this upfront before reading it.
This book might be useful as an introduction to Christianity or Hinduism for those who are a member of one of these groups. It may lead to questions which will inevitably not be satisfied by this reading. This is just a starting point for future questions. The book gets three stars, because I think it does what it sets out to do, but it isn't complete on its own. Of course it is not trying to do more than that. It is a short book.
So I think it is a worthwhile read and I don't regret it, but it won't be a book I keep coming back to.
What this book is not: a defense of Hinduism against Christianity. It is not (and cannot) be an exhaustive explanation of the variations in Hinduism. What this book is: a casual discussion comparing both religions that ends in Christianity being ruled true. None of this should surprise anyone or be any sort of spoiler. It comes with the territory, though it is nice to understand this upfront before reading it.
This book might be useful as an introduction to Christianity or Hinduism for those who are a member of one of these groups. It may lead to questions which will inevitably not be satisfied by this reading. This is just a starting point for future questions. The book gets three stars, because I think it does what it sets out to do, but it isn't complete on its own. Of course it is not trying to do more than that. It is a short book.
So I think it is a worthwhile read and I don't regret it, but it won't be a book I keep coming back to.
January 23, 2020
Interesting.
I would definitely recommend this book to a Hindu friend (if I were to have any) and later discuss with him about the certain topics raised in the book.
I would definitely recommend this book to a Hindu friend (if I were to have any) and later discuss with him about the certain topics raised in the book.
July 16, 2024
India is a land of over 300 MILLION gods. With so many, how can anyone know what is true, pure, and holy? What is evil, sinister, and seductive? Acclaimed apologist Ravi Zacharias once asked these very questions. As a Hindu, he found Christ on a bed of suicide.
Krishna: “I represent God as a very personal being.”
Supra: “What about the others? Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma?”
Krishna: “I am them. I am Vishnu. I am Shiva. I am the Heavenly Father. I have spun this universe. I am the Ruler. I am the Supreme God… I have come to transcend all revelation.
What about You Jesus?”
Jesus: “I AM!”
Krishna: “The paths of freedom from reincarnation are said to be many… Salvation is attained in Hinduism by one of three general ways with slight variations. The first is the way of knowledge, it is called Jnana, which I’m sure you both know is the word for “wisdom” or “knowledge”. The second is the way of Karma, the path of works. And the third is the way of Bhakti, the way of devotion and love.”
”No one comes closer to God by doing good works. In fact, because of the pride of the human heart and pride in one’s culture depending upon one’s good works to bring one to God often becomes the biggest snare of all. A “good person” assumes they have a hold on truth. Cultures assume they are superior to others. The pride within the human heart is the cancer of the soul. No one, no culture has a hold on truth. No heart escapes the stranglehold of pride. It is what brought Lucifer to his fall. The person who in his own eyes thinks he has kept the Law to the fullest and by his own strength is actually the furthest from God. You see, no one can come to God without a sense of spiritual poverty within himself. Only when a person recognizes that all his goodness and accomplishments amount to nothing before God will he then seek God. Only in this humility can a person accept this “New Birth” idea…”
So what’s it going to be? New birth or Rebirth? Is all life reborn every time there is a birth, or are we born physically once but spiritually dead and apart from God until we accept his forgiveness of our sins and are born spiritually through His New Birth?
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest".
Krishna: “I represent God as a very personal being.”
Supra: “What about the others? Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma?”
Krishna: “I am them. I am Vishnu. I am Shiva. I am the Heavenly Father. I have spun this universe. I am the Ruler. I am the Supreme God… I have come to transcend all revelation.
What about You Jesus?”
Jesus: “I AM!”
Krishna: “The paths of freedom from reincarnation are said to be many… Salvation is attained in Hinduism by one of three general ways with slight variations. The first is the way of knowledge, it is called Jnana, which I’m sure you both know is the word for “wisdom” or “knowledge”. The second is the way of Karma, the path of works. And the third is the way of Bhakti, the way of devotion and love.”
”No one comes closer to God by doing good works. In fact, because of the pride of the human heart and pride in one’s culture depending upon one’s good works to bring one to God often becomes the biggest snare of all. A “good person” assumes they have a hold on truth. Cultures assume they are superior to others. The pride within the human heart is the cancer of the soul. No one, no culture has a hold on truth. No heart escapes the stranglehold of pride. It is what brought Lucifer to his fall. The person who in his own eyes thinks he has kept the Law to the fullest and by his own strength is actually the furthest from God. You see, no one can come to God without a sense of spiritual poverty within himself. Only when a person recognizes that all his goodness and accomplishments amount to nothing before God will he then seek God. Only in this humility can a person accept this “New Birth” idea…”
So what’s it going to be? New birth or Rebirth? Is all life reborn every time there is a birth, or are we born physically once but spiritually dead and apart from God until we accept his forgiveness of our sins and are born spiritually through His New Birth?
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest".
July 31, 2011
Main points on argument:
Origin of deities in himduism give the impression to be miths or legends.
Krishna is not sure to be a historical person but and abstracts of ideas
Ideas in his philosofies or way of life are contradictories
Even though he represents god and gods in person, he says that god is impersonal.
Main god who supposedly knows everything, beheaded his own son not knowing that he was... then beheaded an elephant and put its head to his son.
Life is so sacred that hindus not even kill a cow who sustain life, but when Arjuna was in war against his own cousins, Krishna told him to go and accomplish his duty in life and kill. At the same time in Calcuta in the temple they kill goat who can sustain life too, and before christianity entered that city in 1700's they forced the widows to commit suicide, however life is sacred.
If incarnation is real, and is looks forward to perfection, why are we imperfect, what caused the first incarnation, which were the conditions?
He who by the way as representation of god knows everything, left the question as a mystery.
And a few others I don't recall!
Origin of deities in himduism give the impression to be miths or legends.
Krishna is not sure to be a historical person but and abstracts of ideas
Ideas in his philosofies or way of life are contradictories
Even though he represents god and gods in person, he says that god is impersonal.
Main god who supposedly knows everything, beheaded his own son not knowing that he was... then beheaded an elephant and put its head to his son.
Life is so sacred that hindus not even kill a cow who sustain life, but when Arjuna was in war against his own cousins, Krishna told him to go and accomplish his duty in life and kill. At the same time in Calcuta in the temple they kill goat who can sustain life too, and before christianity entered that city in 1700's they forced the widows to commit suicide, however life is sacred.
If incarnation is real, and is looks forward to perfection, why are we imperfect, what caused the first incarnation, which were the conditions?
He who by the way as representation of god knows everything, left the question as a mystery.
And a few others I don't recall!
January 31, 2015
I was very much influenced by my trip to India, that I wanted to learn more of their very rich (and not-quite-tainted) culture. And their religion has pretty much a huge impact, so I bought this not-cheap-for-a-short-and-thin book.
This was O-kay.
Actually, it's a bit hard to discern. Because they have too many "gods", too many stories, too many characters.
But us Christians, we only have One. (And of course, the Only One. :D)
I'm just glad I wasn't swayed, or even got more curious of their religion. But this definitely strengthen my faith [to The One].
I think that some people shouldn't be very offended that the book tended to gravitate towards Christianity. More than a religion book (because I would categorize it as such), it is still written by a Hindi turned Christian.
Hmmm...
Now I wonder what's in a book written by a Christian turned Hindi.
To be honest, I never really heard of one.
That should be interesting.
(Off to Google....)
BACK. And I found this --> http://www.newappsblog.com/2012/07/wh...
This was O-kay.
Actually, it's a bit hard to discern. Because they have too many "gods", too many stories, too many characters.
But us Christians, we only have One. (And of course, the Only One. :D)
I'm just glad I wasn't swayed, or even got more curious of their religion. But this definitely strengthen my faith [to The One].
I think that some people shouldn't be very offended that the book tended to gravitate towards Christianity. More than a religion book (because I would categorize it as such), it is still written by a Hindi turned Christian.
Hmmm...
Now I wonder what's in a book written by a Christian turned Hindi.
To be honest, I never really heard of one.
That should be interesting.
(Off to Google....)
BACK. And I found this --> http://www.newappsblog.com/2012/07/wh...
July 19, 2008
More like 3.5 stars
Comprehensive and easy to read and understand, Birth or Rebirth covers many of the similarities and differences between Hinduism and Christianity through fictional dialogue. I'd recommend this book to anyone who wants to better understand Hinduism, or those who have friends who are searching for truth, or believe that all religions point to the same God.
Comprehensive and easy to read and understand, Birth or Rebirth covers many of the similarities and differences between Hinduism and Christianity through fictional dialogue. I'd recommend this book to anyone who wants to better understand Hinduism, or those who have friends who are searching for truth, or believe that all religions point to the same God.
November 9, 2015
New Birth or Rebirth?: Jesus Talks with Krishna
This book is written quite well as one would expect from the hand of Dr. Zacharias, but seemed to have significantly less information on Hinduism than some of his other books had on the religions they addressed. Still, worth the read and worth the buy.
This book is written quite well as one would expect from the hand of Dr. Zacharias, but seemed to have significantly less information on Hinduism than some of his other books had on the religions they addressed. Still, worth the read and worth the buy.
February 3, 2018
An excellent book.
I listened to the audio version and found it fascinating (bonus: the reader has a British accent). I feel as though this book includes so much more than just apologetics because it subtly covers a lot of the cultural differences between the East & West.
This is one that I may read again, but at a later date. Though it is thought provoking and intriguing, it is not my favourite book the author. Also, I found the audio version occasionally difficult to follow because the narrative tracks the conversation between some 5 characters and their name always precedes their lines. However, when one character references the name of another, it sometimes sounds like the other character has begun to speak (when in fact the line is just a continuation of another's dialogue).
All in all, I feel that I've learned a lot about my own beliefs and those of another religion/people group. This book grew my love for those with differing beliefs who need Hope.
I listened to the audio version and found it fascinating (bonus: the reader has a British accent). I feel as though this book includes so much more than just apologetics because it subtly covers a lot of the cultural differences between the East & West.
This is one that I may read again, but at a later date. Though it is thought provoking and intriguing, it is not my favourite book the author. Also, I found the audio version occasionally difficult to follow because the narrative tracks the conversation between some 5 characters and their name always precedes their lines. However, when one character references the name of another, it sometimes sounds like the other character has begun to speak (when in fact the line is just a continuation of another's dialogue).
All in all, I feel that I've learned a lot about my own beliefs and those of another religion/people group. This book grew my love for those with differing beliefs who need Hope.
June 12, 2018
I’m giving this book five stars because of what I learned - mainly the huge fallacies within the Hindu religions idea of reincarnation.
Certain animals are considered to be sacred, treated better than humans from the lowest caste (like a cow, for example). Yet, to be reincarnated as an animal in your next life is seen as a punishment for your sins in a previous life - you’ve been demoted. Well, which one is it? Are they sacred, or are they “less than.”
Certain animals are considered to be sacred, treated better than humans from the lowest caste (like a cow, for example). Yet, to be reincarnated as an animal in your next life is seen as a punishment for your sins in a previous life - you’ve been demoted. Well, which one is it? Are they sacred, or are they “less than.”
March 2, 2018
Book Review_New Birth or Rebirth: Jesus Talks with Krishna by Ravi Zacharias
This Great Conversations series is stellar (The others are 1) The Lotus and the Cross--Jesus Talks with Buddha; 2) The Lamb and the Fuhrer--Jesus Talks with Hitler; 3) Sense and Sensuality--Jesus Talks with Oscar Wilde; & 4) Prince and the Prophet--Jesus Talks with Mohammed [to be released posthumously]! Actually, I've read most in this series years ago, but have decided to re-read them since they're so good and relevant to teaching World Religions and my life in general. They are all fictional stories, but are based on who these leaders were based on the scriptures or their autobiographies. So, in other words, they are imaginary dialogues but based on what they taught and represented in their lives. Zacharias imagines what might they say to each other based on who they were.
In this particular dialogue, New Birth or Rebirth: Jesus Talks with Krishna, Ravi introduces Subramaniam, who was a real person, along with Richard, a fictional character who travels to India in order eavesdrop into the conversation of them all as a seeker of truth [just as the reader of the book].
Reading the Introduction to this book made me post this on Facebook: "If all religions are basically the same, as so many people are saying today, why do people get so bothered when people from one religion convert to another? Or, for that matter, even consider other religions as real options?"
The book covers the following topics in an easy to read, highly informative format:
" Mathura [birthplace of Krishna], which also used to be a Buddhist city & taken over by Muslim warlords
" Cows and why they are worshiped [See Atharva Veda X:10]
" Jesus' divinity
" Determinism [Hinduism] vs. choice [Christianity]
" The historicity of Jesus and Krishna(s)
" The Bhagavad Gita
" Various Hindu gods such as Brahma, Vishna, Shiva, Ganesha, Parvati, Hanuman, Brahman & Kali
" The preexistence of souls [Hinduism] vs. one life [Christianity]
" The logic of the founder of the Krishna Consciousness Movement [Swami Prabhupada ] as to whether animals have souls and whether animals are inferior to humans
" The Laws of Manu
" Whether all suffering is a result of our own sin [karma] or not [John 9:1-41]
" Sacrifices conducted in Kali Temples & the Bhagavad Gita vs. Jesus' once and for all one
" Good works of both religions vs. grace
" The real vs. illusion [maya of Hindu teaching]
So, in the end, this book has LOTS of ideas to wrestle with that are primed for conversations with your Hindu friends [or seekers who don't really know what they believe in yet]. It's a springboard for further discussions and research to determine what one should believe and build their lives upon.
Here are my notes from the reading:
Introduction
Subramaniam was a real person. (2)
If all religions are indeed the same, why not let someone be 'converted' to another religion…why is conversion forbidden? It circles back again to the one notion that all religions subscribe to-the notion of exclusive truth. (2)
…all religions are, at best, superficially similar but fundamentally different. (3)
Prologue
[In terms of observing crazy drivers] Now you know why we don't need a Disneyland in India. Driving provides all the scary rides we could ever want. (5)
…a fifth [caste], the Panchamas, the outcasts. (6)
…an initiation ceremony called the Upanayana was performed…It was only at this point that I formally became a Brahmin. (6)
…it was considered my first and second birth in this incarnation… (8)
A sacrificial fire was burning on an altar. I was completely clean-shaven-totally bald…Then I was bathed. Then they gave me some sweet food to eat…My mother ate with me…the last time I would ever eat with her…In my strict orthodox upbringing, I was considered a man from this point on. As such, I would only eat with the men of the family, separate from all women, even my mother. (10)
After we ate, the formal ceremony commenced. A teacher who conducted the ceremony called on the nine planets to be witnesses then questioned me as to my desire to become an initiate.
Once the teacher was satisfied with my answers, he entrusted me to the gods of water, herbs, sky, and earth. Then he prayed to all the gods and demons to protect me from every kind of evil. He then commanded me to walk as a Brahman from then on. That was now my new identity. (11)
The climax of the ceremony involved a liturgical spell, or prayer, that was whispered by the priest to my father, who whispered it into my right ear. This prayer was so sacred that my right ear, into which it was breathed, was now considered sacred. And whenever I repeated that prayer, I was cleansed from sin. No woman and no low-caste person were ever to hear it. I repeated this mantra to myself every day. I was instructed to do so for the rest of my life. (11)
…the birthplace of Krishna [Mathura]
Before Mathura was regarded as Krishna's birthplace, it was sacred to the Buddhists also. It was actually a Buddhist monastic center at one time, comprised of twenty Buddhist monasteries and about three thousand monks who resided here. But as Buddhism declined in India, Mathura became a sacred spot to the Hindus. (12)
[Why don't you see traces of Buddhism in India today?]
Courtesy of an Afghan warlord, most of all of the Buddhist and Hindu shrines were leveled sometime around AD 1018. Within the next few centuries, the city was determined to be Krishna's birthplace, and then the Muslim Mughal Aurangzeb flattened the Hindu temple that had been built here and put up a mosque in its place.
A parcel of ground protruding from the barrier of the mosque is now revered as the spot of Krishna's birth. (13)
This is a worship center for widows. There are about two thousand widows who come here every day to chant 'Hare Ram, Hare Krishna' for four hours each morning and four hours each evening. In exchange, they are given a cup of rice at noon with some lentils and two rupees, which is about five cents, and a cup of rice and lentils at dinner. If they also chant in the evening, they are paid five rupees. Four times a year they are given a change of clothes.
…But that's considered their karmic debt being paid. (13)
Holy cow!...I'm sorry…maybe I shouldn't have said 'holy cow.'
Monkeys, cows, donkeys-without religion, there would be no businesses here. (14)
We commonly use many words and expressions that come from our religion, seldom asking where did they originated.
For example, the word avatar, which means a divine manifestation, is not even used in the Gita. Yet, the idea of avatar is fondly believed throughout India because of its implications.
The term is primarily used for incarnations of Vishnu, the preserver god, but it's also used of highly influential teachers in other religions, including Jesus and Mohammed. (15)
The Gita…What is it exactly, and how does it differ from the Vedas?
The Bhagavad Gita, or 'Song of God,' is the most sacred book of the Hindus. It's a long narrative poem, about seven hundred (15)
verses, that tells the story of a discussion between Krishna and the warrior Arjuna, who is about the fight his cousins. The flow of the Gita revolves around man's duty, which if carried out will bring nothing but sorrow. But the poem also offers hope through the way of devotion.
The Vedas, or wisdom books, are the oldest scriptures we possess-they contain everything from teachings to ceremonial instructions in detail…a collection of four books. Each book has three parts: mantras, hymns of praise to the gods; Brahmanas, a guide for practicing rituals; and the Upanishads, the most important part, which deals with teaching on religious truth and doctrines.
In a different category to them are the Epics-two major tales of India. The principle one is the Mahabharata, which contains the famed Ramayana, and the Gita. (16)
Richard: …that cow wandered into the temple, the pilgrim over there touched it and then touched his own forehead and his heart.
Subra: That practice comes right out of the Gita. From early times, the Hindus have revered cows because of their alleged great power. There's also a verse in the Atharva Veda [X:10] that identifies the cow with the entire visible universe:
Worship, O Cow, to thy tail-hair, and to thy hooves, and to thy form!... The Cow is Heaven, the Cow is Earth, the Cow is Vishnu, Lord of Life.^1 (17)
Krishna: Jesus, I know you are a teacher who has come from God. No one could have performed the miraculous signs you performed if God were not with him… Who are you really, Jesus?
Jesus: I and the Father are one, Krishna… Who are you, and where were you born?
Krishna: Why do you ask these questions if you already claim to know everything?
Jesus: A fair query-yet I could easily ask it of you as well. You claim to be the ultimate incarnation of all knowledge, strength, and wisdom. So why are you asking me the reasons for my questions?
Krishna: Because I sense that you are questioning my authority.
Jesus: No, I'm actually doing what I often do when someone comes to me with a question. I ask him a question in return, which prompts him to open up the conversation within his own assumptions.
Jesus: …notice that the prophet has said of me, 'Unto us a child is born; unto us a Son is given…'^2
Listen carefully to the entire prophecy, Krishna. The child was born, but the Son wasn't born. I, the Son, have existed eternally [See John 1:1]. (24-5)
You were truly born here, Krishna-isn't that what is taught about you?
Krishna: I am an idea, Jesus. It doesn't really matter whether I was born or not. It is my teaching that is important. I hope the man behind the curtain heard that…I believe all of life is a leela-a play, a drama. The universe is simply a cosmic puppet theater for the gods. We are simply actors on a stage. Roles and duties are all divinely assigned and beyond human control. Backstage there is always a different script. And I know there's an audience. There's always an audience at a play.
Jesus: We may disagree on the idea of a puppet show, Krishna-there is always a choice, a will, a decision. Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life [Revelation 22:17; Matthew 7:7].
…I too want to talk about the nature of who you and I are and what we teach…for the sake of the man whose ear is pinned to this curtain. His soul is struggling. He is desperate for the truth, Krishna.
Krishna: …I know there are actually many Krishnas in the revelation of my scriptures. But I shall not venture forth to separate them.
Some believe I am the eighth of ninth incarnation of Vishnu.
Jesus: I AM. (26)
Krishna: Talk to me about the end, Jesus. You do know that the material world is transitory.
Jesus: …with the idea of a stage mentioned, let me ask you this: how do the players come onto the stage, and where do they go after they exit the stage?
Krishna: I teach that souls have existed for millions of years. They just come in different costumes. Like any man changes his clothes every day, each life is actually a death. A twenty-one-year-old man has been dying for twenty-one years in that garb.
The real life always happens backstage. To all of life there is a curtain. Reality is what happens backstage, not front stage. What happens there is merely a drama. We Indians love a good drama.
And really, that is why I am here. I came onto the stage to solve a problem between two brothers and their children…
The blind king Dhritarashtra had one hundred sons through his wife, Gandhari.
Jesus: You did say through one wife, right?
Krishna: Yes, but it's not as overwhelming as it sounds.
Jesus: Good thing for her. Please continue with the story. (27)
Krishna: There were two brothers, Pandu and Dhritarashtra. When Pandu, who was the king, passed away, he handed the throne to his brother Dhritarashtra. But Dhritarashtra was blind, and the kingdom was stolen by his eldest son, Duryodhana.
By the way, are these names a bit confusing to you?
Jesus: Have you ever read the book of Numbers?
Krishna: Blue blood…the term Krishna is Sanskrit has the literal meaning of 'black' or 'dark' and is used as a name to describe someone with dark skin. The Brahma Samhita describes my complexion as being 'tinged with the hue of blue clouds,' so sometimes I'm depicted in paintings with blue or dark blue skin.
But I digress…the throne should have gone to Pandu's oldest son.
Pandu's sons were good, honest people living in the forest. The one hundred Kaurava boys, Dhritarashtra's sons (the cousins of Pandu's sons), were raised in the court…they were really the thugs and bullies of their time. They were determined not to let the Pandu boys get the reins of the government.
Jesus: If you go to Jerusalem today, you would see a similar story being played out between blood brothers. (29)
[Think of the Garden's fight too.]
Krishna: My appearance on the stage of revelation was when that one hundred Kaurava brothers went to battle with the five sons of Pandu. The war lasted twelve days, and it raised all the questions about life, war, worship, evil good, and so on.
…it is not that one woman had one hundred sons in a row.
Dhritarashtra's wife had actually miscarried one son. So a yogi came and took the fetus and, after boiling it in some herbs and nutrients, separated it into one hundred baby boys. That is exactly how it happened.
Subra: I am neither bemused nor amused. I am just trying hard to separate myth from fact.
Jesus: Stories, like stones, roll in the dust until the covering of dust and dirt is seen as the substance and the truth is swallowed up by tradition. (30)
I was once asked, 'What is truth?'^6 But the man didn't stay long enough to get an answer. When truth dies, ultimate reality also dies and lies are born, especially where issues of faith and belief are concerned.
Krishna: …no one is really born; we all pre-exist-but when I was born, it was an auspicious time… Vishnu appeared before Devaki, one of the demigoddesses, to intervene with her on behalf of this planet. His appearance was during the full moon. I appeared over the eastern horizon on the eighth day of the waning moon. I know there are some contradictions here-whether the moon was full or waning at first-but in the end, the moon was so overjoyed at my birth that it became full. This was because I am the Supreme Brahman, the Absolute Truth.
Jesus: Where was the creator, Brahma, in all this?
Krishna: Well, that was really a tragedy.
Unfortunately, Brahma, the supreme deity, the creator, had fallen into disfavor with the world at large because he was in love with his own daughter. Incest is strongly rejected in India, and Shiva…would have none of this. So Shiva cut off one of Brahma's five heads and demoted him. Of the three in the godhead, you will notice that Vishnu is really the most popular among the people [See Shiva Maha Purana 1.3.10].
Jesus: Tell me about him.
Krishna: Vishnu maintains law and order in the universe. He is willing to sort of 'get his hands dirty' by coming down to earth and straightening things out. He incarnates himself in different forms to come to earth and set things right. (33)
Shiva, he is the powerhouse, always taking care of the bad ones [See Shiva Maha Purana 1.3.10]. He is portrayed naked because that's who he is-sheer, stark, naked reality. He is pure consciousness himself. He is covered with ashes because after the entire universe is reduced to cosmic dust, he alone will still remain. He will annihilate the universe and absorb all reality into his being.
Jesus: And he drank poison?
Krishna: …in an eternal past the gods and demons for once decided to work together to suck the nectar of immortality out of an ocean of milk. So they took a great mountain, dumped it into the ocean, wrapped the serpent Vasuki around it, and started churning. This continued for thousands of years as the gods pulled on one end and the demons on the other.
The nectar of immortality finally started to ooze out, but unfortunately, so did a poison so virulent that it started to destroy the entire world. With Vishnu's help, the purehearted gods were able to suck out the nectar. The problem was that they ingested the poison as well.
Jesus: This is where Shiva enters with his power.
Krishna: Shiva was the only one powerful enough to solve the situation. He drank the poison and held it in his throat without absorbing it into the rest of his system. (34)
[Regarding the Ganesh head and the Linga:]
Many eons ago, Shiva's wife, Parvati (who actually goes by many different names), asked her young son, Ganesh, to guard the door to the house while she was enjoying her bath. Yes, gods and goddesses also need to bathe-that is why their statues are washed by their devotees.
While Parvati was bathing, however, Shiva returned home early from his meditation.
Actually, I need to say a little more. Shiva came home when Parvati wasn't expecting him, but he had actually been gone for so long he didn't know that Parvati had had a child, and that Ganesh was, in fact, his son. And Ganesh, of course, didn't know that Shiva was his father.
So you can imagine how upset Shiva was when Ganesh would not let him into the room where his wife was bathing. Shiva was so irritated that he took out a sickle, cut off his son Ganesh's head, and threw it away. (35)
Jesus: I suppose his omniscience was a bit threatened here, don't you think?
Krishna: Well, gods make mistakes too, you know.
When Parvati screamed in horror, Shiva went to look for Ganesh's head but was not able to find it. So he promised Parvati he would behead the very next being who crossed his path and transplant the head onto Ganesh.
[Which ended up being an elephant, obviously.]
Subra: Now onto the linga.
Krishna: …throughout India you will see the symbol of Shiva as a linga-the phallic symbol. The male and female sexual organs are symbolic of creative power…that leads to prayers for sexual prowess and fertility worship and all that.
Jesus: You know, Krishna, truth is seldom attacked head-on. It is gradually reduced until it begins to seduce a person with a mixture of half-truths and half-lies. Everything you have said so far has been both a reduction and a seduction. (36)
Krishna: Hanuman…rescued Rama's wife from the wicked clutches of the king Lanka.
Jesus: Listen to the point behind what he's [Subra] saying.
On the one hand, all the ceremonies, sacrifices, and offerings are supposed to be washed and clean and pure. But look at the lives of the masses here. So many people are totally uncared for. Disease stalks every corner. The beggars outside the temple are less cared for than the cow that comes into the temple. An animal is revered and worshiped while these poor people here-made in the image of God-are ignored and scolded. What is your answer to all the darkness one finds here? (37)
There are forty-eight letters or characters in the Sanskrit alphabet. Om or Aum, is the sixth vowel with a nasal sound. When Brahma wanted to know the secret to all knowledge, the sound of Aum came to him in his mind. The more he chanted Aum, the more knowledge came to him. So really, the answer to your question, can be found in chanting.
…reminds me of another story. There is a fascinating tale about the entire epic of the Mahabharata, of which my song, the Gita, is a part.
Subra: The story of the thief's [Valmiki] conversion?
[Sorry, I ran out of space.]
This Great Conversations series is stellar (The others are 1) The Lotus and the Cross--Jesus Talks with Buddha; 2) The Lamb and the Fuhrer--Jesus Talks with Hitler; 3) Sense and Sensuality--Jesus Talks with Oscar Wilde; & 4) Prince and the Prophet--Jesus Talks with Mohammed [to be released posthumously]! Actually, I've read most in this series years ago, but have decided to re-read them since they're so good and relevant to teaching World Religions and my life in general. They are all fictional stories, but are based on who these leaders were based on the scriptures or their autobiographies. So, in other words, they are imaginary dialogues but based on what they taught and represented in their lives. Zacharias imagines what might they say to each other based on who they were.
In this particular dialogue, New Birth or Rebirth: Jesus Talks with Krishna, Ravi introduces Subramaniam, who was a real person, along with Richard, a fictional character who travels to India in order eavesdrop into the conversation of them all as a seeker of truth [just as the reader of the book].
Reading the Introduction to this book made me post this on Facebook: "If all religions are basically the same, as so many people are saying today, why do people get so bothered when people from one religion convert to another? Or, for that matter, even consider other religions as real options?"
The book covers the following topics in an easy to read, highly informative format:
" Mathura [birthplace of Krishna], which also used to be a Buddhist city & taken over by Muslim warlords
" Cows and why they are worshiped [See Atharva Veda X:10]
" Jesus' divinity
" Determinism [Hinduism] vs. choice [Christianity]
" The historicity of Jesus and Krishna(s)
" The Bhagavad Gita
" Various Hindu gods such as Brahma, Vishna, Shiva, Ganesha, Parvati, Hanuman, Brahman & Kali
" The preexistence of souls [Hinduism] vs. one life [Christianity]
" The logic of the founder of the Krishna Consciousness Movement [Swami Prabhupada ] as to whether animals have souls and whether animals are inferior to humans
" The Laws of Manu
" Whether all suffering is a result of our own sin [karma] or not [John 9:1-41]
" Sacrifices conducted in Kali Temples & the Bhagavad Gita vs. Jesus' once and for all one
" Good works of both religions vs. grace
" The real vs. illusion [maya of Hindu teaching]
So, in the end, this book has LOTS of ideas to wrestle with that are primed for conversations with your Hindu friends [or seekers who don't really know what they believe in yet]. It's a springboard for further discussions and research to determine what one should believe and build their lives upon.
Here are my notes from the reading:
Introduction
Subramaniam was a real person. (2)
If all religions are indeed the same, why not let someone be 'converted' to another religion…why is conversion forbidden? It circles back again to the one notion that all religions subscribe to-the notion of exclusive truth. (2)
…all religions are, at best, superficially similar but fundamentally different. (3)
Prologue
[In terms of observing crazy drivers] Now you know why we don't need a Disneyland in India. Driving provides all the scary rides we could ever want. (5)
…a fifth [caste], the Panchamas, the outcasts. (6)
…an initiation ceremony called the Upanayana was performed…It was only at this point that I formally became a Brahmin. (6)
…it was considered my first and second birth in this incarnation… (8)
A sacrificial fire was burning on an altar. I was completely clean-shaven-totally bald…Then I was bathed. Then they gave me some sweet food to eat…My mother ate with me…the last time I would ever eat with her…In my strict orthodox upbringing, I was considered a man from this point on. As such, I would only eat with the men of the family, separate from all women, even my mother. (10)
After we ate, the formal ceremony commenced. A teacher who conducted the ceremony called on the nine planets to be witnesses then questioned me as to my desire to become an initiate.
Once the teacher was satisfied with my answers, he entrusted me to the gods of water, herbs, sky, and earth. Then he prayed to all the gods and demons to protect me from every kind of evil. He then commanded me to walk as a Brahman from then on. That was now my new identity. (11)
The climax of the ceremony involved a liturgical spell, or prayer, that was whispered by the priest to my father, who whispered it into my right ear. This prayer was so sacred that my right ear, into which it was breathed, was now considered sacred. And whenever I repeated that prayer, I was cleansed from sin. No woman and no low-caste person were ever to hear it. I repeated this mantra to myself every day. I was instructed to do so for the rest of my life. (11)
…the birthplace of Krishna [Mathura]
Before Mathura was regarded as Krishna's birthplace, it was sacred to the Buddhists also. It was actually a Buddhist monastic center at one time, comprised of twenty Buddhist monasteries and about three thousand monks who resided here. But as Buddhism declined in India, Mathura became a sacred spot to the Hindus. (12)
[Why don't you see traces of Buddhism in India today?]
Courtesy of an Afghan warlord, most of all of the Buddhist and Hindu shrines were leveled sometime around AD 1018. Within the next few centuries, the city was determined to be Krishna's birthplace, and then the Muslim Mughal Aurangzeb flattened the Hindu temple that had been built here and put up a mosque in its place.
A parcel of ground protruding from the barrier of the mosque is now revered as the spot of Krishna's birth. (13)
This is a worship center for widows. There are about two thousand widows who come here every day to chant 'Hare Ram, Hare Krishna' for four hours each morning and four hours each evening. In exchange, they are given a cup of rice at noon with some lentils and two rupees, which is about five cents, and a cup of rice and lentils at dinner. If they also chant in the evening, they are paid five rupees. Four times a year they are given a change of clothes.
…But that's considered their karmic debt being paid. (13)
Holy cow!...I'm sorry…maybe I shouldn't have said 'holy cow.'
Monkeys, cows, donkeys-without religion, there would be no businesses here. (14)
We commonly use many words and expressions that come from our religion, seldom asking where did they originated.
For example, the word avatar, which means a divine manifestation, is not even used in the Gita. Yet, the idea of avatar is fondly believed throughout India because of its implications.
The term is primarily used for incarnations of Vishnu, the preserver god, but it's also used of highly influential teachers in other religions, including Jesus and Mohammed. (15)
The Gita…What is it exactly, and how does it differ from the Vedas?
The Bhagavad Gita, or 'Song of God,' is the most sacred book of the Hindus. It's a long narrative poem, about seven hundred (15)
verses, that tells the story of a discussion between Krishna and the warrior Arjuna, who is about the fight his cousins. The flow of the Gita revolves around man's duty, which if carried out will bring nothing but sorrow. But the poem also offers hope through the way of devotion.
The Vedas, or wisdom books, are the oldest scriptures we possess-they contain everything from teachings to ceremonial instructions in detail…a collection of four books. Each book has three parts: mantras, hymns of praise to the gods; Brahmanas, a guide for practicing rituals; and the Upanishads, the most important part, which deals with teaching on religious truth and doctrines.
In a different category to them are the Epics-two major tales of India. The principle one is the Mahabharata, which contains the famed Ramayana, and the Gita. (16)
Richard: …that cow wandered into the temple, the pilgrim over there touched it and then touched his own forehead and his heart.
Subra: That practice comes right out of the Gita. From early times, the Hindus have revered cows because of their alleged great power. There's also a verse in the Atharva Veda [X:10] that identifies the cow with the entire visible universe:
Worship, O Cow, to thy tail-hair, and to thy hooves, and to thy form!... The Cow is Heaven, the Cow is Earth, the Cow is Vishnu, Lord of Life.^1 (17)
Krishna: Jesus, I know you are a teacher who has come from God. No one could have performed the miraculous signs you performed if God were not with him… Who are you really, Jesus?
Jesus: I and the Father are one, Krishna… Who are you, and where were you born?
Krishna: Why do you ask these questions if you already claim to know everything?
Jesus: A fair query-yet I could easily ask it of you as well. You claim to be the ultimate incarnation of all knowledge, strength, and wisdom. So why are you asking me the reasons for my questions?
Krishna: Because I sense that you are questioning my authority.
Jesus: No, I'm actually doing what I often do when someone comes to me with a question. I ask him a question in return, which prompts him to open up the conversation within his own assumptions.
Jesus: …notice that the prophet has said of me, 'Unto us a child is born; unto us a Son is given…'^2
Listen carefully to the entire prophecy, Krishna. The child was born, but the Son wasn't born. I, the Son, have existed eternally [See John 1:1]. (24-5)
You were truly born here, Krishna-isn't that what is taught about you?
Krishna: I am an idea, Jesus. It doesn't really matter whether I was born or not. It is my teaching that is important. I hope the man behind the curtain heard that…I believe all of life is a leela-a play, a drama. The universe is simply a cosmic puppet theater for the gods. We are simply actors on a stage. Roles and duties are all divinely assigned and beyond human control. Backstage there is always a different script. And I know there's an audience. There's always an audience at a play.
Jesus: We may disagree on the idea of a puppet show, Krishna-there is always a choice, a will, a decision. Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life [Revelation 22:17; Matthew 7:7].
…I too want to talk about the nature of who you and I are and what we teach…for the sake of the man whose ear is pinned to this curtain. His soul is struggling. He is desperate for the truth, Krishna.
Krishna: …I know there are actually many Krishnas in the revelation of my scriptures. But I shall not venture forth to separate them.
Some believe I am the eighth of ninth incarnation of Vishnu.
Jesus: I AM. (26)
Krishna: Talk to me about the end, Jesus. You do know that the material world is transitory.
Jesus: …with the idea of a stage mentioned, let me ask you this: how do the players come onto the stage, and where do they go after they exit the stage?
Krishna: I teach that souls have existed for millions of years. They just come in different costumes. Like any man changes his clothes every day, each life is actually a death. A twenty-one-year-old man has been dying for twenty-one years in that garb.
The real life always happens backstage. To all of life there is a curtain. Reality is what happens backstage, not front stage. What happens there is merely a drama. We Indians love a good drama.
And really, that is why I am here. I came onto the stage to solve a problem between two brothers and their children…
The blind king Dhritarashtra had one hundred sons through his wife, Gandhari.
Jesus: You did say through one wife, right?
Krishna: Yes, but it's not as overwhelming as it sounds.
Jesus: Good thing for her. Please continue with the story. (27)
Krishna: There were two brothers, Pandu and Dhritarashtra. When Pandu, who was the king, passed away, he handed the throne to his brother Dhritarashtra. But Dhritarashtra was blind, and the kingdom was stolen by his eldest son, Duryodhana.
By the way, are these names a bit confusing to you?
Jesus: Have you ever read the book of Numbers?
Krishna: Blue blood…the term Krishna is Sanskrit has the literal meaning of 'black' or 'dark' and is used as a name to describe someone with dark skin. The Brahma Samhita describes my complexion as being 'tinged with the hue of blue clouds,' so sometimes I'm depicted in paintings with blue or dark blue skin.
But I digress…the throne should have gone to Pandu's oldest son.
Pandu's sons were good, honest people living in the forest. The one hundred Kaurava boys, Dhritarashtra's sons (the cousins of Pandu's sons), were raised in the court…they were really the thugs and bullies of their time. They were determined not to let the Pandu boys get the reins of the government.
Jesus: If you go to Jerusalem today, you would see a similar story being played out between blood brothers. (29)
[Think of the Garden's fight too.]
Krishna: My appearance on the stage of revelation was when that one hundred Kaurava brothers went to battle with the five sons of Pandu. The war lasted twelve days, and it raised all the questions about life, war, worship, evil good, and so on.
…it is not that one woman had one hundred sons in a row.
Dhritarashtra's wife had actually miscarried one son. So a yogi came and took the fetus and, after boiling it in some herbs and nutrients, separated it into one hundred baby boys. That is exactly how it happened.
Subra: I am neither bemused nor amused. I am just trying hard to separate myth from fact.
Jesus: Stories, like stones, roll in the dust until the covering of dust and dirt is seen as the substance and the truth is swallowed up by tradition. (30)
I was once asked, 'What is truth?'^6 But the man didn't stay long enough to get an answer. When truth dies, ultimate reality also dies and lies are born, especially where issues of faith and belief are concerned.
Krishna: …no one is really born; we all pre-exist-but when I was born, it was an auspicious time… Vishnu appeared before Devaki, one of the demigoddesses, to intervene with her on behalf of this planet. His appearance was during the full moon. I appeared over the eastern horizon on the eighth day of the waning moon. I know there are some contradictions here-whether the moon was full or waning at first-but in the end, the moon was so overjoyed at my birth that it became full. This was because I am the Supreme Brahman, the Absolute Truth.
Jesus: Where was the creator, Brahma, in all this?
Krishna: Well, that was really a tragedy.
Unfortunately, Brahma, the supreme deity, the creator, had fallen into disfavor with the world at large because he was in love with his own daughter. Incest is strongly rejected in India, and Shiva…would have none of this. So Shiva cut off one of Brahma's five heads and demoted him. Of the three in the godhead, you will notice that Vishnu is really the most popular among the people [See Shiva Maha Purana 1.3.10].
Jesus: Tell me about him.
Krishna: Vishnu maintains law and order in the universe. He is willing to sort of 'get his hands dirty' by coming down to earth and straightening things out. He incarnates himself in different forms to come to earth and set things right. (33)
Shiva, he is the powerhouse, always taking care of the bad ones [See Shiva Maha Purana 1.3.10]. He is portrayed naked because that's who he is-sheer, stark, naked reality. He is pure consciousness himself. He is covered with ashes because after the entire universe is reduced to cosmic dust, he alone will still remain. He will annihilate the universe and absorb all reality into his being.
Jesus: And he drank poison?
Krishna: …in an eternal past the gods and demons for once decided to work together to suck the nectar of immortality out of an ocean of milk. So they took a great mountain, dumped it into the ocean, wrapped the serpent Vasuki around it, and started churning. This continued for thousands of years as the gods pulled on one end and the demons on the other.
The nectar of immortality finally started to ooze out, but unfortunately, so did a poison so virulent that it started to destroy the entire world. With Vishnu's help, the purehearted gods were able to suck out the nectar. The problem was that they ingested the poison as well.
Jesus: This is where Shiva enters with his power.
Krishna: Shiva was the only one powerful enough to solve the situation. He drank the poison and held it in his throat without absorbing it into the rest of his system. (34)
[Regarding the Ganesh head and the Linga:]
Many eons ago, Shiva's wife, Parvati (who actually goes by many different names), asked her young son, Ganesh, to guard the door to the house while she was enjoying her bath. Yes, gods and goddesses also need to bathe-that is why their statues are washed by their devotees.
While Parvati was bathing, however, Shiva returned home early from his meditation.
Actually, I need to say a little more. Shiva came home when Parvati wasn't expecting him, but he had actually been gone for so long he didn't know that Parvati had had a child, and that Ganesh was, in fact, his son. And Ganesh, of course, didn't know that Shiva was his father.
So you can imagine how upset Shiva was when Ganesh would not let him into the room where his wife was bathing. Shiva was so irritated that he took out a sickle, cut off his son Ganesh's head, and threw it away. (35)
Jesus: I suppose his omniscience was a bit threatened here, don't you think?
Krishna: Well, gods make mistakes too, you know.
When Parvati screamed in horror, Shiva went to look for Ganesh's head but was not able to find it. So he promised Parvati he would behead the very next being who crossed his path and transplant the head onto Ganesh.
[Which ended up being an elephant, obviously.]
Subra: Now onto the linga.
Krishna: …throughout India you will see the symbol of Shiva as a linga-the phallic symbol. The male and female sexual organs are symbolic of creative power…that leads to prayers for sexual prowess and fertility worship and all that.
Jesus: You know, Krishna, truth is seldom attacked head-on. It is gradually reduced until it begins to seduce a person with a mixture of half-truths and half-lies. Everything you have said so far has been both a reduction and a seduction. (36)
Krishna: Hanuman…rescued Rama's wife from the wicked clutches of the king Lanka.
Jesus: Listen to the point behind what he's [Subra] saying.
On the one hand, all the ceremonies, sacrifices, and offerings are supposed to be washed and clean and pure. But look at the lives of the masses here. So many people are totally uncared for. Disease stalks every corner. The beggars outside the temple are less cared for than the cow that comes into the temple. An animal is revered and worshiped while these poor people here-made in the image of God-are ignored and scolded. What is your answer to all the darkness one finds here? (37)
There are forty-eight letters or characters in the Sanskrit alphabet. Om or Aum, is the sixth vowel with a nasal sound. When Brahma wanted to know the secret to all knowledge, the sound of Aum came to him in his mind. The more he chanted Aum, the more knowledge came to him. So really, the answer to your question, can be found in chanting.
…reminds me of another story. There is a fascinating tale about the entire epic of the Mahabharata, of which my song, the Gita, is a part.
Subra: The story of the thief's [Valmiki] conversion?
[Sorry, I ran out of space.]
July 31, 2010
I figured this book would be right up my ally... I mean my Bach. is in Philosophy, but nearly all of my electives were philosophy of religion courses or anthropology/myth courses... I believe if my college had it, I very likely would have gotten a philosophy of religion degree...
~~~possible SPOILER alert~~~
I believe this book had good intentions... The author explicitly states in the beginning of the intro, the first page of 'type,' that it is his opinion that the greatest difference in religions is that they all claim to be the truth...
In that lite; I believe the author was going to argue both Krishna and Jesus from a rather dogmatic point. Early in the body of the text it became apparent that Jesus was going to argue rather dogmatically. Krishna on the other hand was rather open to his fallibility...
It is further my opinion... that this book is NOT good because of the authors bias. I was hoping to read a book to show the virtues and 'vices' of both religions. Where both Jesus and Krishna would defend their creed and 'attack' the philosophical and theological points of the other. It was Jesus' part to do such. The whole time Krishna was on the defensive and was rather 'second class' to Jesus. From a Christian perspective this is great... but it means little to the Hindu reader. If it were unbiased I believe either a Christian or a Hindu could pick up this book and learn of their counter. Instead I believe that any given Hindu (who is not predisposed to believe otherwise) will block their mind to the Christian ideology present. Just as I believe the Christian reader will have a hard time seeing any reason to contemplate the Hindu believes presented. Simply because of their poor presentation; a lack of persuasive presentation.
~~~possible SPOILER alert~~~
I believe this book had good intentions... The author explicitly states in the beginning of the intro, the first page of 'type,' that it is his opinion that the greatest difference in religions is that they all claim to be the truth...
In that lite; I believe the author was going to argue both Krishna and Jesus from a rather dogmatic point. Early in the body of the text it became apparent that Jesus was going to argue rather dogmatically. Krishna on the other hand was rather open to his fallibility...
It is further my opinion... that this book is NOT good because of the authors bias. I was hoping to read a book to show the virtues and 'vices' of both religions. Where both Jesus and Krishna would defend their creed and 'attack' the philosophical and theological points of the other. It was Jesus' part to do such. The whole time Krishna was on the defensive and was rather 'second class' to Jesus. From a Christian perspective this is great... but it means little to the Hindu reader. If it were unbiased I believe either a Christian or a Hindu could pick up this book and learn of their counter. Instead I believe that any given Hindu (who is not predisposed to believe otherwise) will block their mind to the Christian ideology present. Just as I believe the Christian reader will have a hard time seeing any reason to contemplate the Hindu believes presented. Simply because of their poor presentation; a lack of persuasive presentation.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
June 12, 2012
"New Birth or Rebirth?: Jesus Talks with Krishna" by Ravi Zacharias
This short book is part of Ravi Zacharias' "Great Conversations" series, and portrays a fictional conversation between Jesus and Krishna about the greatest differences between Christianity and Hinduism. In it, the author attempts to take ideas directly from segments of each faith's sacred texts and place them in context within the conversation. He also inserts a "third party" character into the conversation that is able to ask questions and interact with the two primary characters.
Ravi does a masterful job of not only drawing a stark contrast between the simplicity of Christianity against the complexity of Hinduism, but also of dealing with the false (but often repeated) premise that the two faiths are essentially the same and the differences are superficial. His point is that they may be superficially similar, but they are fundamentally different. Yet Ravi is able to present the case for Christianity without being belligerent or demeaning toward the Hindu at all.
Of Ravi's books that I have read, this was by far the easiest to read, and there is a clear presentation of the Gospel presented through the course of the "conversation." I didn't know much about Hinduism prior to reading this book, but knowing the reputation of the author, I am confident he presented a thorough, fair view of what Hinduism is about.
This short book is part of Ravi Zacharias' "Great Conversations" series, and portrays a fictional conversation between Jesus and Krishna about the greatest differences between Christianity and Hinduism. In it, the author attempts to take ideas directly from segments of each faith's sacred texts and place them in context within the conversation. He also inserts a "third party" character into the conversation that is able to ask questions and interact with the two primary characters.
Ravi does a masterful job of not only drawing a stark contrast between the simplicity of Christianity against the complexity of Hinduism, but also of dealing with the false (but often repeated) premise that the two faiths are essentially the same and the differences are superficial. His point is that they may be superficially similar, but they are fundamentally different. Yet Ravi is able to present the case for Christianity without being belligerent or demeaning toward the Hindu at all.
Of Ravi's books that I have read, this was by far the easiest to read, and there is a clear presentation of the Gospel presented through the course of the "conversation." I didn't know much about Hinduism prior to reading this book, but knowing the reputation of the author, I am confident he presented a thorough, fair view of what Hinduism is about.
November 3, 2012
I may have to read it a second time to truly take any meaning from this book, however with that said I'm not sure I really like it. I'm on the fence about this book...
There was some significant things that Ravi Zacharias hit upon that I always question about religion, such as why there is organized religion when God wouldn't really want it that way, and many other questions. But at the same time I feel as though Mr. Zacharias is really attacking and forcing someone to believe in Christ, rather than Krishna.
It didn't help any when I started reading it that I immediatley thought of a really badly filmed 80's type movie where the actors are really bad and you can tell they're reading from a script. There really wasn't fluidity in the movement of the conversation. It all felt slightly forced.
I will read it again, perhaps, but I don't know if it would change my mind. If you're a religious zealot or just questioning Faith, religion or spirituality, however, this book could be for you. Give it a go...I'm only one person. Everyone likes something different. :)
I received this book for free from the Goodreads First Reads giveaways!
There was some significant things that Ravi Zacharias hit upon that I always question about religion, such as why there is organized religion when God wouldn't really want it that way, and many other questions. But at the same time I feel as though Mr. Zacharias is really attacking and forcing someone to believe in Christ, rather than Krishna.
It didn't help any when I started reading it that I immediatley thought of a really badly filmed 80's type movie where the actors are really bad and you can tell they're reading from a script. There really wasn't fluidity in the movement of the conversation. It all felt slightly forced.
I will read it again, perhaps, but I don't know if it would change my mind. If you're a religious zealot or just questioning Faith, religion or spirituality, however, this book could be for you. Give it a go...I'm only one person. Everyone likes something different. :)
I received this book for free from the Goodreads First Reads giveaways!
December 18, 2010
I liked this book. Easy to read and it gives a really good view of how Christians and Hindus are similar in some ways, but vastly different in most. A conversation between Krishna and Jesus is an interesting thought and it really will make people think deeply about what they believe. He explains in a very easy to understand way the beliefs of both sides. I am looking forward to reading more of Ravi Zacharias' books in the future. I have a lot of respect for him and was very glad to have had this opportunity to win one of his books. He really knows what he is talking about and presents information in a very clear way. This book will enlighten many people and make them think about what they believe.
May 26, 2021
For some reason this book triggered me in ways I didn’t know a person can be triggered. As belligerent and naive as the author sounds, the thing that irritated me the most was the factual errors about Hinduism. Ravi Zacharias doesn’t understand the fundamentals of the Hindu faith and it shows utter lack of research.
Having said that, I was hoping to read a non-demeaning, intellectual conversation between the two religions but this did nothing of that sort. It would’ve been a better effort if there were some stronger points and non defensive arguments for the opposing faith. It’s clear that the author wanted to unequivocally brandish Christianity the most but in the end, if you need to put another religion down to amplify your opinion, are you really setting precedent to it?
Having said that, I was hoping to read a non-demeaning, intellectual conversation between the two religions but this did nothing of that sort. It would’ve been a better effort if there were some stronger points and non defensive arguments for the opposing faith. It’s clear that the author wanted to unequivocally brandish Christianity the most but in the end, if you need to put another religion down to amplify your opinion, are you really setting precedent to it?
January 10, 2011
I won this selection here in the First Reads giveaway.
It's a short and interesting selection based on what sort of conversation Jesus Christ and Krishna (of the Hindu religion) would have if in the same room. Questions are provided by a third person and the two proceed to debate about them.
It's an easy read and holds your attention throughout and the only complaint I have is that I wish there were more (hence 4 stars rather than 5)!
I look forward to reading Ravi Zacharias's other works! Thank you, Goodreads, for providing me with great entertainment.
It's a short and interesting selection based on what sort of conversation Jesus Christ and Krishna (of the Hindu religion) would have if in the same room. Questions are provided by a third person and the two proceed to debate about them.
It's an easy read and holds your attention throughout and the only complaint I have is that I wish there were more (hence 4 stars rather than 5)!
I look forward to reading Ravi Zacharias's other works! Thank you, Goodreads, for providing me with great entertainment.
August 9, 2011
This was a quick read, and a very, very informative book for me. It helped me to understand alot of the different philosophy, and religiosity of Hinduism and why it does appeal to people.
Ravi has a very imaginative mind, and yet a very scholarly mind, to be able to engage with two great world figures in a very honest way, fair way and easy to understand (somewhat) way.
I can't wait for future titles, and I can't wait to engage my friends about the content of this book, though it's only 86 pages long. Good read.
Ravi has a very imaginative mind, and yet a very scholarly mind, to be able to engage with two great world figures in a very honest way, fair way and easy to understand (somewhat) way.
I can't wait for future titles, and I can't wait to engage my friends about the content of this book, though it's only 86 pages long. Good read.
February 7, 2020
Entertaining. I appreciate the approach of having these two in conversation with each other. The author has extracted the dogmatic and ritualistic aspects (human created) of Hinduism in favor of the true meaning of teachings (Krishna's Gita) and the symbology of certain customs (i.e. respect for the cow as a symbol of mother, rather than "worship" of the cow). The idea of creating newfound insight through a hypothetical conversation such as this would be better served if the author actually had a better understanding of what Hinduism is about at the core.
July 7, 2014
This one is in that genera of imaginary dialogues. It takes the character of Jesus from what we know of him in the New Testament, and it takes what we know of Krishna from the Bhagavad Gita. (Jesus does a good job by the way :-)
Ravi does a great job of explaining what many Hindu Brahmans believe, but if you want to know what a Hindu believes, you've just got to ask him or her, because that actual beliefs of individual Hindus are extremely diverse.
Ravi does a great job of explaining what many Hindu Brahmans believe, but if you want to know what a Hindu believes, you've just got to ask him or her, because that actual beliefs of individual Hindus are extremely diverse.
August 31, 2008
I really enjoyed this book. I bought it for a friend who is into Hare Krishna, and read it before I gave it to him.
It was easy to understand, informative, and interesting. Ravi has a wonderful sense of humour. I was a little disappointed that it didn't talk about karma, and the reason "bad" things happen to good people.
It was easy to understand, informative, and interesting. Ravi has a wonderful sense of humour. I was a little disappointed that it didn't talk about karma, and the reason "bad" things happen to good people.
December 1, 2010
with just starting this book, I find myself pleasantly surprised that I am so far enjoying it. The humorous side of it and the information explaining traditions of Hinduism is intreguing.
I found that I enjoyed this book. A conversation between Jesus and Krishna was very interesting, easy to follow, and relaxing listening to them discussing like "regular" people.
I found that I enjoyed this book. A conversation between Jesus and Krishna was very interesting, easy to follow, and relaxing listening to them discussing like "regular" people.
April 26, 2011
This book is overflowing with powerful thoughts and fascinating descriptions of the Hindu culture and religion from a man who was born Hindu brahman, turned atheist, turned Christian. Half the book is now underlined and the other half has notes written in the margin--the sign of a truly thought provoking book!
June 30, 2012
Well, the first of the "Great Conversations" series that Ive had the pro ledge to read. I actually enjoy the way it presented the difference between Hinduism and Christianity. Lots of great quotes as usual by Ravi Zacharias. It has now sparked my curiosity and desire to read the rest of the books that are a part of this series.
December 14, 2012
This book is really very well written by Ravi Zacharias,loved reading it .Will be really helpful for people who crave for TRUTH.
I like one profound point that Ravi mentioned in the book ,which is this "All religions are NOT fundamentally equal and superficially different but all religions are fundamentally different and may be superficially same " and it is True.
I like one profound point that Ravi mentioned in the book ,which is this "All religions are NOT fundamentally equal and superficially different but all religions are fundamentally different and may be superficially same " and it is True.
September 16, 2013
As with all of Ravi's works, I'm most satisfied. It was well rounded in its approach to Hinduism and charitable when describing Krishna. It allowed me to see Krishna from an alternative perspective.I would highly recommend...
December 23, 2013
A good look at the differences between faith in Jesus and the philosophical beliefs of Krishna. I found the story Ravi Zacharias was telling this time stayed out of the way of the discussion. A worthwhile read to better understand both faith in Jesus and other worldviews.
March 24, 2016
This book helped me understand the differences between Hinduism and Christianity.
p. 76 Jesus says, "I came into the world not to live - because I have always existed. I came into the world to die - to show the horror of sin that separates the human heart from God's heart."
p. 76 Jesus says, "I came into the world not to live - because I have always existed. I came into the world to die - to show the horror of sin that separates the human heart from God's heart."
June 8, 2009
Not much apologetics, just explains the main difference between Christianity and Hinduism
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April 24, 2010Fantastica comparación entre el mensaje eterno de Cristo y la vacia vida reeligiosa del hinduismo...
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