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Arbitration motions regarding Palestine-Israel articles

[edit]
Original announcement
  • For anyone wondering why PeleYoetz is in the original but not revised list of parties, this is almost certainly because they have been blocked as a sockpuppet. Thryduulf (talk) 12:24, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • PIA5 was well-overdue. Happy that Arbcom will actually be taking this up, even with the glacial pace it's moved at. The Kip (contribs) 19:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Then I hope you will participate in the case to offer evidence and workshop potential remedies to quell the disruption. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @HJ Mitchell I’ll certainly be watching with interest, but unfortunately I’m neither consistently involved enough in the topic area nor qualified enough to substantially aid in either of those (beyond my longstanding but not widely popular belief in nuking the topic area’s userbase). The Kip (contribs) 21:53, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand why some people might advocate for that. In a topic area that wasn't at the whims of real-world events it could conceivably work but I think it's unlikely to work here though we don't know yet where the evidence will lead. As you will have seen, my reluctance to take the case was largely because, in four previous cases, we appear to have exhausted the remedies at our disposal so if you have ideas for new ones I would certainly welcome them. In the meantime, I have some hope for the new remedies just passed in these motions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Harry, I'm a bit surprised by what you say about new remedies. When I recommended ARBCOM take this case, it wasn't because I think you can devise a miraculous new tool for administrators, but simply because determining which editors are engaged in bad behavior requires parsing more evidence than AE can reasonably handle. I fully believe that the usual combination of blocks, bans, and warnings can handle the conflict between the principal actors here at least for the moment. Is there an expectation that you need a new class of remedies? Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Vanamonde93 possibly not an expectation, but if somebody has new ideas I'm all ears. This is our most troublesome topic area and will continue to be so until the politicians get their act together, regardless of what we decide to do with these editors. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • What's an "interaction" tho? Selfstudier (talk) 19:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Selfstudier A conversation or exchange between people. I'm guessing the ArbCom is examining the conversations and exchanges between the parties in the case. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 21:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The definition of interaction ban at the banning policy page should make it clear what the committee is looking for. Donald Albury 21:15, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @HJ Mitchell: Hello, as drafter can you please clarify whether the scope is exclusively about the interaction of editors as mentioned here? Also, will some sort of introduction be provided prior to the opening of the case (ex: structure of the process/type of acceptable evidence/type of editors who will be able to provide inputs/etc..)? Makeandtoss (talk) 07:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Makeandtoss the exact scope is still a little nebulous, and your idea of an introduction is a good one which I'll give more thought to before we open the case. The way I see it is we want to consider whether there are problems with those editors in particular or with the interactions between them, but we also want to explore why the entire topic area is such a problem and whether ArbCom can impose any remedies to help with that or to help admins deal with problems. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:22, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @HJ Mitchell: Thanks for the reply, glad to hear this is being considered comprehensively. Also relevant in my opinion to the success of this case with its specific scope is whether some limitations are necessary, such as the type and number of editors allowed to participate/amount of interventions/character limits/type of allowed evidence/good faith presentation of evidence/etc. As we can see, there is understandable eagerness to participate in these discussions, so there is a need to ensure that the case does not become overwhelming, and that these points can be considered along with their context. Makeandtoss (talk) 09:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The way I see it, the PIA area is a very dangerous combination of intractible ethnopolitical dispute (a la EE or AP2), open war in meatspace (a la AA2 or EE) and one that everyone in the world and their dog has a horse in for one reason or another (a la AB or GS). None of these are things Wikipedia and its processes have any hope of handling because the on-wiki behaviour is a symptom of real-world disputes that cannot be resolved that way. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v threads critiques 07:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is likely true and true for a long time, which begs the question, what exactly is it that is different now? Selfstudier (talk) 11:24, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The answer is to focus where the focus belongs. No one should expect ArbCom to deal with intractable worldwide problems. Instead, the case should focus on whether there are individual editors whose conduct is making the editing environment worse. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not an answer to my question tho (which wasn't intended as a coatrack for you to hang your well known opinion on). Selfstudier (talk) 19:16, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I was responding more to what Jéské said, that there was no hope of ArbCom being able to handle the problem. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:24, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    a) That's not all they said. b) I want to know what they think the problem is (now). Selfstudier (talk) 19:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Selfstudier, you ask what the problem is now. The problem is editors in the PIA topic area appear to not be playing by the rules, in a way that our existing system isn't solving. We can't pretend to ignore the real world here. Obviously the war in Gaza is ultimately driving the issue. But Jéské Couriano is right: we can't fix the real world problem. A body of 15 volunteers on a website staffed by people with names like CaptainEek are not going to end a war that has its roots more than a century deep. But we can assess, in our little corner of the internet, whether our own editors are following the rules while writing about that real world topic. We will assess the conduct of editors, and whether our existing Contentious Topics scheme is keeping a lid on the topic area. I doubt that PIA5 will be the last PIA case, but with luck it will help resolve some tensions in the area for the next few years. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 20:00, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I get that, still doesn't answer the question, why now? Have these editors only now decided to not play by the rules, whereas they did previously? Or is it instead, that there is a lot of noise, mainly from one side of the fence, suggesting that that is the problem, hmm? That possible? Selfstudier (talk) 20:54, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Enough evidence has been presented of an apparent problem that the community has been unable to resolve. The Arbitration Committee thus considers it worthwhile to examine the topic area in more detail to determine (a) whether the apparent problem is an actual problem, and (b) if so, what remedies the Committee can enact in an attempt to resolve that problem. Such remedies may focus on individual editors, if there are any editors who are determined to be disrupting the functioning of the topic area. If it turns out that there aren't any such editors, then they wont be sanctioned.
    When someone says or implies that the whole problem is caused by editors on one side of an editing dispute that relates to a real-world ethnic, nationalist, religious and/or political dispute, in my experience this most commonly just means that they are not seeing (or not acknowledging as disruptive) the problematic behaviours from those who share their point of view. Thryduulf (talk) 22:41, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    When someone says. . You mean me? Sure, I must have been confused about that for years and years. I'm sure I'll get over it now that you have pointed me in the right direction. Selfstudier (talk) 22:54, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that it was just a neutral general statement. Also, in this case it likely most applies to BilledMammal, as he brought up this issue in the first place, and simultaneously has a documented history of attempting to censor reliable information that is inconvenient for the heavily pro-Israeli perspective, or seemingly spending enormous amounts of effort to catalogue and thereby target many of the editors that disagree with him in this area, as I partially listed and linked to previously in this discussion.
    Anyway, I obviously heavily disagree with the "indiscriminately ban them all" solution that seemed to be suggested here previously. If an editor has not actually done anything bad, and has strictly added accurate and reliably referenced information, while being as polite as they can manage, especially given the scale of the ongoing atrocities, I do not think that they should be punished for it, and removing all of the most knowledgeable members who know how to edit properly and who follow Wikipedia's rules, would open up the floodgates for trolls, vandals, death threatening criminals, and large-scale removals of reliable content. Please see here for some examples: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] David A (talk) 07:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Enough evidence has been presented Where was evidence presented? I've been waiting to see it. Levivich (talk) 05:15, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sufficient evidence has been presented at the arbitration request, at ARCA and possibly in private that the Arbitration Committee believe there is an issue that needs investigating. Nobody needs to satisfy you personally. Thryduulf (talk) 09:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Cool it with the snarky responses, Thryduulf. Zerotalk 11:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That was not intended to be snarky, and while I can squint a bit and see how the second sentence might be taken that way, and I apologise if Levivich does see it that way, it does not undermine the point I was making that there has been no shortage of evidence presented. Thryduulf (talk) 11:44, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If people would forgive an experienced Wikipedian/netizen for giving unsolicited advice...
    @Thryduulf (and everyone else here) I'm not sure if you know about tonality indicators, but here's a carrd about them. While they were developed for people with neurodivergence negatively impacting social communication (autism, social communication disorder, etc.), they do have a curb cut effect for everyone else.
    @Zero0000 Part of assuming good faith can, at times, sometimes include being curious about tonality. A reminder to everyone that even I mess up on this, so I would appreciate a lack of dogpiling. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 21:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Selfstudier: This help? —Jéské Couriano v^_^v threads critiques 23:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    4 was procedural so I flipped to the evidence for 3 and the first thing I see is from a sock "The main problem with Palestine-Israel articles isn't necessarily the new editors or socks but rather some of the old editors who know how to play the rules and transfer Wikipedia into an outlet of propaganda instead of outlet of neutral knowledge. The only way to create a change is effective enforcement and punishment against editors who constantly violate the rules." Gosh, that sounds familiar. Selfstudier (talk) 14:13, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Could I get a link for that quote please. Thanks, IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 14:56, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 3/Evidence#Conclusion Selfstudier (talk) 14:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you User:Selfstudier for that very interesting link. That statement was made by User:Settleman, later blocked for .......socking. Huldra (talk) 22:25, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I find it useful to remember that sociopathy is not very rare, and Wikipedia's open access model means we get a large sample size. Sean.hoyland (talk) 05:38, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Would it be a good idea to use Twinkle to request a sockpuppet investigation, with all of the available evidence included? David A (talk) 10:50, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @HJ Mitchell: the exact scope is still a little nebulous, and your idea of an introduction is a good one which I'll give more thought to before we open the case. The way I see it is we want to consider whether there are problems with those editors in particular or with the interactions between them, but we also want to explore why the entire topic area is such a problem and whether ArbCom can impose any remedies to help with that or to help admins deal with problems
    Are there any developments here? Selfstudier (talk) 15:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New Arbitration Committee appointments for 2025

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The Electoral Commission is pleased to announce the certified results of the Arbitration Committee Election 2024. CaptainEek has extended her term for another two years, and Primefac has extended their term for another year. The new and returning appointees for the next two years are Daniel, Elli, KrakatoaKatie, Liz, ScottishFinnishRadish, Theleekycauldron, and Worm That Turned.

Congratulations!!!

On behalf of ElectCom: —CYBERPOWER (Merry Christmas) 13:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyberpower678 (or any others on EC) wherever you're sourcing these, consider changing "appointments" to "elected" or similar. These people are no longer appointed. On which point, I also don't think we need to continue dropping a specific mention of the selections off at Jimbo's talk page any longer. Izno (talk) 18:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would certainly save a few pings. Primefac (talk) 18:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My condolences to everyone who was elected or reelected, and my thanks to everyone who ran and to all of the outgoing members of the Committee. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Despite not getting reelected myself, I'm pretty pleased with this result. This looks like a very solid group, with a good balance between old hands and new arbs with fresh perspectives. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 18:58, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm counting two continued terms (CaptainEek and Primefac), two returning arbs (Worm That Turned who was an arb from January 2013 – December 2014, January 2018 – September 2023, and KrakatoaKatie who was an arb from January 2018 – December 2021), and five noobies to the committee (Daniel, Elli, Liz, ScottishFinnishRadish, and Theleekycauldron). Not that you don't know of course JSS, but for anybody who doesn't want to do the leg work lol. Certainly a great blend that I have high hopes for. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just slow your roll. I'm all about managing expectations. You can have one high hope, the rest have to be middling hopes, at best. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:26, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fine, I'll reallocate the additional high hopes I have elsewhere, such as the upcoming NPP backlog drive =D Hey man im josh (talk) 19:27, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Careful, SFR, you might get promoted to parsnip. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:48, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just don't cover me in wax and call me a rutabaga! ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations to all the successful candidates, and thanks to all the candidates as well as those who provided coordination and support for the elections. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 19:34, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cyberpower678, just wondering if the results should be actually posted on the Noticeboard, not just the Talk page, and at WP:AN as well. Thought I'd check. Liz Read! Talk! 03:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, as neither a clerk nor sitting ArbCom member, I'm not allowed to post to the noticeboard. Certainly worth bringing up in the next RfC. —CYBERPOWER (Merry Christmas) 03:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Committee will make an announcement regarding the results (and paperwork such as CU/OS) ourselves – it is not necessary for non-clerks/members to make announcements on the noticeboard (but the talk page here is fine). Speaking for myself, I'd like to wait for the WMF to confirm that our members-elect have signed the confidentiality agreements. Sdrqaz (talk) 03:34, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As my colleague points out we'd not be allowed to post to ACN. On a more philosophical level, the elections are not done under ArbCom's auspices or authority. They are done under the community's auspices and authority. ACN is for announcing ArbCom decisions/information but this is not that. Your point that results should be officially posted to AN is a good one. I've added it to the "to do" for next year. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The miscellaneous Village Pump may be a better fit for the results of a community process (though I appreciate the administrator's noticeboard is a practical location to reach a lot of users). isaacl (talk) 04:05, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Traditionally, the sitting Arbitration Committee posts the names of the new arbitrators once they have completed the final step of signing the required confidentiality statement, and have determined whether they want one or both of CheckUser and Oversight permissions (technically, they announce the new CU/OS, I suppose). Just noting that, absent that confidentiality statement signature, they are prospective arbitrators; they have not yet completed the requirements to become officially elected. Speaking personally, I'd like to make it a requirement of candidacy that all candidates sign the confidentiality statement prior to the beginning of the election. Now that it does not require anyone to provide personal details such as RL name, address, etc., and only involves an undertaking to maintain confidentiality of information, this should not be an issue. This isn't a hypothetical; there have been cases within the Wikimedia world where people have been elected to positions requiring that statement who have declined to sign off on it. Risker (talk) 03:40, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd recommend adding it to the suggestions for next year. I personally would be opposed. I think making candidates give the statement is good. I think disqualifying someone for something that we can't control (the posting of signatures to the ANPDP) is bad. We should, however, encourage people to sign it at the time of their candidacy; now that you can sign your screen name the "cost" of signing is much lower. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:43, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be happy enough with requiring a statement that they have completed and submitted the form as part of the candidacy statement, similar to how we require a declaration of alternate accounts today. Thus, action isn't dependent on the WMF clearing their inbox immediately; they'd have the whole length of the candidacy and election to do so. Risker (talk) 04:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Woah, I wasn't expecting this level of response to what I thought was a simple oversight (posted on the talk page rather than the noticeboard). I just expected to see it at WP:AN. But I greatly appreciate the information and history you have all provided to us all, I'm sure that the next two years will include a steep learning curve for us newbies. Liz Read! Talk! 03:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Off-wiki misconduct in Palestine–Israel topic area

[edit]
Original announcement
  • I get the sense Ivana either refused to respond or they were unrepentant and doubled-down. Either tends to be a very good way to get a site-and-topic-ban combo. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v threads critiques 18:34, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Huldra was very publicly accused of misconduct, is there any public statement on whether or not that evidence indicated any malfeasance on her part? And if it did not, is there any reason why such a public accusation is not met with just as public a refutation? nableezy - 18:47, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Committee does not generally publish exonerations or dismissals of claims via motion. We did however let Huldra know that we closed this without action in regards to her, and that we appreciated her patience and responsiveness throughout the process. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 18:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The committee also generally doesnt allow public accusations to be made based on private evidence. nableezy - 18:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Which is why we removed the accusations and made the issue private. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 18:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It has been on my mind that perhaps the committee should make such statements. Maybe not in private cases but in public ones. For example, findings of fact that explicitly reject items submitted in the evidence phase that were off-topic or not at all compelling. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 19:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I recall suggesting something similar during my time on the committee (2015). However one of my fellow arbitrators (I don't remember who) was firmly of the opinion that every finding of fact should directly support at least one remedy. The same argument was made (I think by someone else) more recently when I suggested that things which were directly necessary for the situation being adjudicated to occur but which were themselves neutral (I don't remember the context for this, but I do remember using the analogy of a rail accident investigation into why a train ran away - that it was on a gradient was necessary for the runaway to occur, and so a finding of fact was made to this effect, even though it was not relevant to any remedy). Every remedy should be supported by at least one finding of fact, but I still disagree that the only purpose of findings of fact is to support remedies. Thryduulf (talk) 21:19, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I do kind of agree that the parts of a PD should lead into one another, but maybe it doesn't have to be part of the proposed decision. . A simple statement on the evidence talk page, for example, something along the lines of "we examined evidence related to <user> and did not find it compelling." Striking out evidence that doesn't show what is claimed could be considered as well. This is probably a bad test case as we don't actually know what the evidence was. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 22:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @CaptainEek, not before a lot of us read the accusations. Should there be consequences for parties making public accusations on the basis of private evidence when those accusations are not upheld? TarnishedPathtalk 23:03, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Speaking generally, as obviously I have not seen the private evidence, there are multiple reasons why evidence presented may not lead to action being taken, including:
    • The evidence shows the opposite to what is claimed
    • The evidence clearly doesn't show anything (of consequence)
      • This could be due to fabricated or misinterpreted evidence, or genuine evidence of things that are not problematic (e.g. claims of vandalism that turn out to be just removal of unsourced promotional material)
    • The evidence is completely unclear
    • The evidence shows evidence of something, but not conclusively enough to take action
      • e.g. there is clear evidence of bad actions by someone but it is not clear (enough) who that someone is
    • There are no actions that it is possible for Arbcom to take
      • e.g. the evidence points to the bad actions exclusively being done by someone not on en.wp
    • All the actions that Arbcom could take are moot
      • e.g. a person who would be sanctioned already has been (whether for these actions or some other).
    In several of the above, it's possible for evidence to have been presented in good or bad faith. What (if any) consequences there should be for the person submitting the evidence will depend on the circumstance. Fabricated evidence presented in bad faith is very different to genuine evidence presented in good faith that is simply insufficiently conclusive to take action. Thryduulf (talk) 23:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that presenting public accusations on private evidence should be prohibited and offenders should be sanctioned, whether or not the private evidence checks out. There is no excuse for it, and there wasn't an excuse this time, so I don't know why the offender was (afaik) allowed to get away with it. Zerotalk 11:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Technically it is prohibited, as it is casting aspersions without on-wiki evidence. My concern was that the whole laundry list of evidence-free accusations sat there for over three days, with at least two arbs commenting on it, before Primefac finally removed it. It's still there in the page history, as well. Black Kite (talk) 11:54, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I said in my response to the inquiry, I accept the judgement of the committee regarding me. I am however not pleased the committee seems to acquiesce to such clearly politically motivated acts of intimidation. Nothing new here I'm afraid. Tashmetu (talk) 18:54, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I will note in my opinion, the evidence for Tashmetu was weaker and their response made me unwilling to support the revocation, unlike with the other revocation. Sdrqaz (talk) 03:34, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I am limited in what I can say, this coming out now, in December, has been for me a prime example of the limitations (which I mainly attribute to capacity) of this year's committee. Despite how long it took this seems to be a thoughtful and considered response. I have high hopes for next year's committee and hope they live up to (or exceed them). Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 19:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think we can all thank the committee for taking a reasoned and considered action, announcing it, and remember that people can and do learn and change and get 2nd chances and even 3rd chances. Andre🚐 03:00, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have some questions about the 2 "For gaming the extended confirmed restriction"

  • Do they tell us something useful about the statute of limitations for gaming? In those cases, the gaming occurred many months ago. There seems to be a lack of clarity and diversity of views on this issue. The staleness question is relevant to a current AE case for example. Gaming is often spotted long after the EC grant is issued (or not at all probably). If there is something like a statute of limitations, it may make actively searching for accounts that look like they may have employed gaming worthwhile, at least for accounts that went on to edit in a contentious topic area.
  • Is gaming enough by itself or does there need to be another element of the "crime" to trigger removal of the privilege e.g. leapt into a contentious topic area post-EC grant, or was involved in edit warring, or off-wiki coordination etc.? Wikipedia provides several tools that people can use to pretty rapidly make 500 perfectly legitimate edits, so there seems to be a fuzzy boundary between ok and not-ok for the first 500 edits.

Sean.hoyland (talk) 04:02, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no one sized fits all solution to ECP gaming I'm afraid. In this case of course, there was an off-wiki element which makes it perhaps a poor comparison to other cases. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 04:19, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think if a) it can be shown that an editor employed gaming and b) the editor went on to make a significant proportion of the edits in a contentious topic area, then running a checkuser might reduce the ban evasion rate. I think this might be the case for a couple of reasons
  • The likelihood that a revision to an article was done by a ban evading actor is far higher in PIA than across Wikipedia in general. This is clear when you compare the PIA topic area to 500,000 randomly selected articles. For a PIA article revision, the chance that it's a sock edit is 5.9%, whereas for the random sample it's 2.9%, at least for the 2020 until now period. For the post-Oct 7, 2023 year, 2023-10-07 to 2024-10-06, it's 6.82% vs 1.96%.
  • EC requirements appear to concentrate ban evading actors in the subpopulation with EC rights. This subpopulation is relatively small compared to the general population, which could be a useful feature. Annual grants for EC are generally only in the 3500 to 4500 accounts range as far as I can tell, very substantially less than the total number of new accounts each year. And the chance that an EC account is blocked for ban evasion is high, in the 5 to 10% range, depending on the year. Furthermore, the speed of EC acquisition, the number of days from registration to extendedconfirmed, tells you something about the likelihood that an account will be blocked for ban evasion i.e. the quicker someone acquires EC, the more likely they will be blocked for ban evasion. You can see that relationship here for all newly acquired EC grants across Wikipedia from 2018 onwards.
So, maybe gaming followed by contentious topic area editing could be an indicator of an increased likelihood of ban evasion. Sean.hoyland (talk) 16:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sean.hoyland, where are you getting these numbers from? Ironic, I know, but could you cite your source? And. not to a gif but some source that explains how this data was gathered and evaluated. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 02:58, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Liz, voices in my head mostly. Also, from SQL executed on the analytics server from my laptop using my toolforge account, sometimes directly, sometimes with some extra processing using Python. hmmm...I'll think about how provide some background. I have been looking at the topic area for a while now. Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:11, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first background thing is the answer to the question "what is the topic area?". We don't know precisely so we (BilledMammal, Zero0000 and I) have used approximations and gathered stats based on those. The approximations use article titles and are normally limited to namespaces (0,1), but not always. The article titles are selected by looking for ARBPIA templated talk pages and pages that are members of both the Israel and Palestine wikiprojects. This approximation has been slightly expanded recently to include pages that are part of the Israel-Palestine Collaboration project and pages that are in both the Israel and Lebanon wikiprojects and both the Israel and Syria wikiprojects. This could be expanded further of course to improve sampling, but the existing approximation seems to catch a large number of titles.
  • The second thing is the answer to the question "what is a ban evading actor, a sock?" In a perfect world (which is what external ML research projects appear to assume), you should be able to find ban evading actors by looking at the category graph because all actors blocked for sockpuppetry should be categorized as such. In reality, the category graph is incomplete. There are many accounts that have been blocked as socks that are not categorized as socks. This seems to be partly culture-related. Some editors seem to think that adding a sock template (which automatically categorizes the account) somehow gives credit to the actor. This is not helpful in my view, especially for ML project, partly because the category graph is the most efficient way to link accounts to sockmasters, which is very useful information. So, to handle this, actors are labeled as ban evading actors based on a combination of information from the category graph and from the block logs (looking for terms like checkuser, sock, multiple accounts etc. in the comments). Once you can label actors as ban evading actors you can easily count their revisions, both inside the topic area and outside, and distinguish them from accounts not blocked for sockpuppetry. You can also make timelines of their activities.
  • The third thing is how to count extendedconfirmed grants. It is easy to see who has been granted the EC privilege and when. So, it is easy to e.g. track this over time, measure the difference between registration and the grant issue, and the difference between grant and a block for ban evasion.
  • Another thing is identifying gaming, which is quite an interesting unresolved issue for me. This was discussed a bit here.
We have quite a lot of information about the topic area. Some examples follow. There are some plots in here for interest for Top and High important articles for the Israel and Palestine projects. Some information about account ages for various articles here, or over the whole topic area here. Unique editor counts over time. Ways to look at protection and talk page ARBPIA templating. Sean.hoyland (talk) 04:15, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Forgot to mention the random sampling. It is easy to select n pages randomly and examine them. It only takes a few minutes to select, for example, 2 million pages and count the number of revisions by ban evading actors and normal editors, with an optional time range limit. I have code to do this in chunks to avoid getting hate mail from the cloud services people. For 2 million randomly selected articles, for the post-Oct 7, 2023 year, 2023-10-07 to 2024-10-06, 1.97% of the revisions are by ban evading actors blocked for sockpuppetry (211,546 revisions out of 10,732,361). Sean.hoyland (talk) 05:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, in the meantime, lets enjoy the open canvassing on X (link) for "Israel Forever Foundation on Dec. 19 about "Wikipedia’s anti-Israel bias and how to fight back against it." "Learn the tricks of the trade with Aaron Bandler, Jewish Journal", (lets sign up) (My bolding), Huldra (talk) 22:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Learn the tools necessary to engage in online activism through much-needed Wikipedia editing to fight back against the hijacking of truth in the open learning forums".
No surprise that some editors are wary new editors coming into the topic space. TarnishedPathtalk 23:42, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am sure whoever the valiant Wikipedia neutrality protector who stalked pro-Palestinian activists and doxed them is going to be on this case too! Afterall they were clearly only motivated by a desire to ensure adherence to Wikipedia code of conduct and had no other motives! Tashmetu (talk) 07:31, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It says right on The Israel Forever Foundation mission page "...enlightening, experiential, and apolitical learning and activism", so although I'm not quite sure I really know what the word experiential means, it all sounds like harmless fun. Just a bunch of enthusiastic people wanting to improve Wikipedia. Perhaps a source of fresh ideas like ronald, "The solution: Wikipedia should be blacklisted as a sponsor of terror and its staff should be imprisoned." It'll be fine. Sean.hoyland (talk) 10:41, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure. TarnishedPathtalk 11:25, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pease WP:AGF; I'm sure User:BilledMammal will report it if anything even close to canvassing occur, Huldra (talk) 21:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Huldra, I don't know if you are serious but I don't think you can rely on BilledMammal for regular reports. They have been on a WikiBreak (or retirement?) since November 14th. They haven't been involved in this case since it opened. Liz Read! Talk! 04:56, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz, there's a tad bit of sarcasm from Sean, Huldra and myself. TarnishedPathtalk 05:04, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz, I apologise for using this page for a bit of a banter (I think it is called: I am not a native English-speaker). In addition to this arb.com case, BilledMammal has made 14 AE reports only in 2024 (according to this). AFAIK, every single one of them against editors deemed not pro-Israeli enough. The chance of BM making a case against pro-Israeli canvassing is, IMO, approximately zero. That is something editors not following the IP-area knows nothing about, therefor our (Sean, TarnishedPath, Tashmetu and myself) comments here were at the wrong place: my apologies, Huldra (talk) 21:32, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2025 Arbitration Committee

[edit]
Original announcement
  • I thank all the outgoing arbs for their service and for the times we had together, but I need to single one out. Back when I was a nobody, a few friends and I would half-joke/half be in awe of "For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235)". I never imagined we'd first become friends and then colleagues. Losing him not only from the committee but the clerks list is the end of an era for me. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:16, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree. I will miss all the outgoing arbs this year but Kevin in particular deserves a special mention. Having said that, we lose quite a bit of institutional memory with this changeover. Hopefully the enthusiasm of the new members will make up for that and I'm excited to be working with them. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:03, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Any institution needs a constant influx of new blood to keep from stagnating. This year, we're going to have 1/3 rookies, which is just right. RoySmith (talk) 14:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I still consider myself a rookie! ;) But you're quite right that a mix of experience and new blood leeps everything healthy. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Incredibly sweet. Wholeheartedly agree. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 12:38, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm very touched by the messages! It has been a wild 9.9 years :)
    It's been a real pleasure to serve alongside this year's committee as well as the previous nine as well, and I am confident we're going to be in good hands going forward. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 18:28, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm so very grateful and appreciative of the work that the outgoing arbs (and those re-elected) have put in during their time on the committee. I have faith in those who have been elected, as I've always known them to be hard working folks who, above all else, are always trying to do their best. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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