Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justin Qiang

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. I see a consensus to Keep given the sources Cunard has found. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:08, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Justin Qiang

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Only ever played in the minors, and career seems to have stalled after becoming a free agent in 2020. I can't see that there's enough coverage to justify a GNG pass (usual caveat: I don't speak Chinese and can't search it except through GTranslate). ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:04, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Baseball, and China. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:04, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete The article fails WP:GNG and is a case of WP:INVALIDBIO; he is only known because he's the first Tibetan to be signed to the MLB. IncompA 08:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IncompA, not to argue with someone supporting my position, but this doesn't qualify for speedy deletion, or I'd have tagged it as such. WP:INVALIDBIO also doesn't apply, as the only points in that section are about people known for their relationship to someone else, or people only notable for number of Google hits. "First X to do Y" isn't on there. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:47, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I see, thanks. I'm new to all of this AfD stuff and as such I'm not entirely aware of every term. IncompA 09:15, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:GNG and arguably WP:BLP1E. Not a speedy delete in the slightest, though. SportingFlyer T·C 09:42, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: In addition to the sources cited in the article, I'm seeing lots of coverage in Chinese-language sources. I found these with a quick search: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 14:59, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Mx. Granger, maybe you're not familiar with the recent changes to WP:NSPORT, which require significant coverage in compliance with the GNG. Generally it's expected that sources should be more in-depth than routine announcements of players being signed or traded, and that there should be at least some indication of sustained coverage. There does not appear to be enough such coverage to justify him having an article. The SCMP article already cited is barely about him, mentioning him merely as an example of a Chinese player in the minors. The other two citations in the article are stats databases, which aren't considered SIGCOV.
As for the sources you linked:
1. Signing announcements are often considered WP:ROUTINE; this one is quite short
2. Mentions him only to say that he is one of 7 Chinese players signed to the MLB by one development centre
3. Another routine signing announcement, shorter than the last, doesn't lend much extra to claim of notability
4. Another signing announcement; this one has slightly better coverage than the last two, and I would take it as significant
5. Another signing announcement in line with the first two
6. Fluff report about training in a youth newspaper, I'm not convinced
7. Another signing announcement in line with the first two - I suspect they're based on a press release as they all have very close to the same content/wording
8. Like source 2, only mentions him trivially
9. Yet another signing announcement
10. I can't access the sports.qq link, not sure why
11. Same signing announcement as 9 but on a different website
12. Trivial mention in the context of another dude getting signed from his development centre
13. The exact same signing announcement as the first one
So basically, a raft of short, routine , press-release-based signing announcements, and a few trivial mentions. What we need is coverage of him as a player - his achievements, his failures, his life. But none of that exists, because he isn't notable. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:23, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would say the subject appears to meet GNG, as he has significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Rather than just brief signing announcements, several of the sources I linked have multiple paragraphs of information about Qiang's life and career. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 23:17, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:
People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
Sources
1. Zhao, Meng 赵萌 (2023-06-28). "棒球"追梦少年"与中国体彩的故事强巴仁增：我感受到了支持和关爱" [Baseball "dream chasing boy" and the story of China Sports Lottery. Justin Qiang: I feel support and love]. China Sports Daily [zh] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2023-08-05. Retrieved 2023-08-05.
  The article notes: "强巴仁增是一名中国棒球运动员，他有着1.83米的身高，皮肤黝黑、身体健壮，笑起来非常腼腆。2017年他与MLB美国职棒大联盟波士顿红袜队正式签约，成为中国首位与美国职业俱乐部签约的藏族棒球运动员，也被媒体称为中国棒球的“追梦少年”。出生在西藏自治区墨竹工卡县一户工薪家庭的强巴仁增从小跟着爷爷奶奶长大， 2007年的春天，他来到了北京光爱学校念书，在这里，第一次遇到了公益体彩。"
  From Google Translate: "Justin Qiang is a Chinese baseball player. He is 1.83 meters tall, has dark skin and a strong body. He smiles very shyly. In 2017, he officially signed with the MLB Boston Red Sox and became the first Tibetan baseball player in China to sign with an American professional club. He was also called the "dream chasing boy" of Chinese baseball by the media. Justin Qiang, who was born in a working family in Mezhugongka County, Tibet Autonomous Region, grew up with his grandparents. In the spring of 2007, he came to Beijing Guangai School to study. Here, he encountered charity sports lottery for the first time."
2. Abraham, Peter (2017-09-21). "Red Sox first MLB team to sign player from Tibet". The Boston Globe. Archived from the original on 2023-08-05. Retrieved 2023-08-05.
  The article notes: "Qiang Ba is the first player from Tibet signed by a major league team and started catching earlier this season. He is a former pitcher and shortstop. ... Qiang Ba is a product of Major League Baseball’s academy in Nanjing, China. He also has a background as an actor, having appeared on the Chinese baseball-themed drama “Boyhood.” ... Qiang Ba was not considered a prominent prospect internationally but does represent the team’s first step into the potentially deep Chinese prospect pool. But he does have athleticism and good size at 6 feet 1 inch, 180 pounds."
3. Yang, Xinwei 杨心伟 (2017-07-13). Yan, Yujie 严玉洁; Yu, 于熙 (eds.). "MLB棒球发展中心球员强巴仁增正式签约波士顿红袜队" [MLB Baseball Development Center player Justin Qiang officially signs with Boston Red Sox]. China Daily (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2023-08-05. Retrieved 2023-08-05.
  The article notes: "2001年，强巴仁增出生在西藏自治区墨竹工卡县的一户工薪阶层家里。2007年11月，强巴仁增加入北京大成学校棒球队，正式开始学习棒球。在遇到大成学校的李伟教练之前，强巴仁增坦言并不知棒球所为何物，但他仅用了三年时间就开始展现自己过人的棒球天赋。2010年7月第28届世界少年软式棒球锦标赛決賽在日本江户川举行，经过延长局的激烈争夺，中国队战胜中华台北队，夺得第28届世界少年软式棒球锦标赛冠军。作为二垒手出场的强巴仁增完成了最后一个出局数，赛后入选该届世锦赛“最佳阵容”。"
  From Google Translate: "In 2001, Justin Qiang was born in a working-class family in Mazhugongka County, Tibet Autonomous Region. In November 2007, Justin Qiang joined the baseball team of Beijing Dacheng School and officially started learning baseball. Before meeting coach Li Wei of Dacheng School, Justin Qiang admitted that he did not know what baseball was, but it only took him three years to show his extraordinary baseball talent. In July 2010, the final of the 28th World Junior Softball Championship was held in Edogawa, Japan. After a fierce competition in the extended round, the Chinese team defeated the Chinese Taipei team and won the championship of the 28th World Junior Softball Championship. Justin Qiang, who played as a second baseman, completed the last outs and was selected as the "best team" of the World Championships after the game."
4. Tobin, Meaghan (2018-09-09). "Why is baseball a hit in Japan, but striking out in China? Hint: it's to do with the PLA and Cultural Revolution". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2022-10-20. Retrieved 2023-08-05.
  The article notes: "But the catcher is the backbone, setting the pace, anchoring and orchestrating the team – and this is the role Justin could someday play. A powerful left-handed hitter, he is 17 years old, six feet tall and 186 pounds, ideally suited to baseball. Last fall, after some scouts saw him behind the plate, Justin achieved the nearly impossible – he was signed by the Boston Red Sox as a player in their Gulf Coast League, US$10,000 bonus in hand, becoming the first player from Tibet ever signed by Major League Baseball (MLB) in the United States."
5. Yang, Xinwei (2017-07-19). "Justin time: BoSox tap Chinese talent". China Daily. Archived from the original on 2023-08-05. Retrieved 2023-08-05.
  The article notes: "Ten years ago, the Tibetan teenager had no clue about the game. But earlier this month, the 6-foot, 185-pound catcher signed a contract with the Boston Red Sox. ... Born to a working-class family in Tibet's Maizhokunggar county in 2001, Qiangbarenzeng joined the Beijing Dacheng School baseball team under coach Li Wei at age 6. Three years later he helped Team China beat Chinese Taipei to win a tournament in Japan and was one of six Chinese selected for the All-Star team. ... After their initial assessment, Red Sox scout Louie Lin and Eddie Romero, Boston's former international scouting director and now assistant general manager, suggested Qiangbarenzeng could be a good catcher, prompting the switch."
6. Yang, Chengchen 杨程晨 (2017-07-13). "中国16岁藏族球员与美国职棒球队签约" [Chinese 16-year-old Tibetan player signs with MLB team] (in Chinese). Phoenix Television. China News Service. Archived from the original on 2023-08-06. Retrieved 2023-08-06.
  The article notes: "强巴仁增2001年出生在西藏自治区墨竹工卡县。2007年11月加入北京大成学校棒球队，开始学习棒球。2010年7月举行的第28届世界少年软式棒球锦标赛，中国队夺得冠军，强巴仁增入选该项赛事最佳阵容。2015年，他通过考核被MLB南京棒球发展中心录取。"
  From GOogle Translate: "Jampa Rinzeng was born in Medzhugongka County, Tibet Autonomous Region in 2001. In November 2007, he joined the baseball team of Beijing Dacheng School and began to learn baseball. In the 28th World Junior Softball Championship held in July 2010, the Chinese team won the championship, and Jambal Rinzen was selected as the best team of the event. In 2015, he passed the assessment and was admitted by MLB Nanjing Baseball Development Center."
7. Xiang, Xuan 梁璇 (2018-04-09). "中国棒球少年追梦职棒联盟" [Chinese Baseball Junior Dream Chaser Professional Baseball League]. China Youth Daily (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2023-08-06. Retrieved 2023-08-06.
  The article notes: "2007年离家后，强巴仁增只回过两三次家，条件限制，他也很少给家里电话，家里的变故曾让儿时的他感到命运不公，不愿与人交流，但好在棒球场让他找回自信，也看到了更广阔的天地。在与红袜队签约后，强巴仁增把家人拉进了一个微信群，时常往里面放一些自己训练的照片和视频"
  From Google Translate: "After leaving home in 2007, Jampa Rinzeng only returned home two or three times. Due to limited conditions, he seldom called home. Changes at home once made him feel that his fate was unfair when he was a child, and he was unwilling to communicate with others, but fortunately The baseball field allowed him to regain his confidence and see a wider world. After signing with the Red Sox, Jampa Rinzeng pulled his family into a WeChat group, and often put some photos and videos of his training in it"
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Justin Qiang (simplified Chinese: 强巴仁增; traditional Chinese: 強巴仁增; pinyin: Qiángbā Rénzēng; Tibetan: Jampa Rigzin, བྱམས་པ་རིག་འཛིན) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 00:13, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per GNG. Rlendog (talk) 15:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, the subject easily passes WP:GNG per the extensive sourcing presented above. 2601:204:C901:B740:F921:9566:95E3:FAA2 (talk) 17:23, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, passes GNC as extremely well-sourced, especially taking into account the information found during this discussion. He is the first Tibetan to be signed by a Major League baseball team, which is notable to Tibet, notable in China, and notable every which way. If he ever makes it back to the show maybe the Dalai Lama will throw out the first pitch. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:34, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He's already been released after playing only 17 games in the lowest possible minor league. It's a crystal clear WP:BLP1E. SportingFlyer T·C 23:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not too sure that WP:BLP1E can be validly invoked here, (at a minimum it’s certainly not WP:Run of the mill) as there appears to be coverage of his acting, childhood, personality, and family, the depth of which is unusual for someone known only for a single baseball event. 2601:204:C901:B740:3854:AE53:187C:E0DB (talk) 03:22, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Let's use some common sense here. This is clearly a "first X in Y" article. The only coverage he received is because he signed with a team as a baseball player, which is also clearly one event. He was not a notable player in the slightest - he played 17 games in the lowest possible minor league, was then released, never played again, and doesn't appear to have any continuing coverage, I cannot confirm the date on the supposed 2023 article as there's no date on that one. He's likely to remain a low profile individual, and the fact he got signed is very "run of the mill." So all phases of BIO1E/BLP1E are satisfied. He would have clearly failed our old WP:NBASE guideline, and I haven't checked to see if print baseball encyclopedias still exist, but he would not have been mentioned in any of the old ones I had if they were updated and re-printed to now. SportingFlyer T·C 10:23, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SIGCOV (albeit mostly in Chinese) mainly relating to a non-routine event (his signing), but which led to him being profiled by various media sources. Significant to baseball in China. Would not make sense to cover this signing as an article like Signing of Justin Qiang or similar. D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 18:54, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Signing a player is almost always a routine event, and even having reviewed the Chinese coverage I see no reason why this would possibly be considered non-routine, especially given our guidelines X in Y, the fact he would have clearly failed our now deprecated sports SNG for baseball, and the fact WP:BLP1E clearly covers articles like this. SportingFlyer T·C 22:00, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per GNG given media coverage in Chinese. Relevant figure to baseball in Tibet and China. Article can certainly be improved, though. D. Benjamin Miller (talk) 18:55, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.