Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Genny Smith (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. It would have been nice if improvements were made after the last AFD, but luckily we are not on a deadline here, and there is at least a weak lean in the consensus that she is borderline notable. (also noting that much of her work was pre-internet and sources related to it may not be online, maybe someone could visit an actual library?) Beeblebrox (talk) 21:11, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Genny Smith

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Nothing showing any notability in article. Sources are very weak. Was up for deletion many years back and Kept basically on the hope that article would be improved and eventually show notability, which never happened. Notability needs to be shown to be kept. Should have been deleted then, still needs to be deleted now. DreamGuy (talk) 06:03, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think this hinges on the criteria at WP:CREATIVE, and mav's comment from 7 years ago:

Keep : Being a publisher is notable as well as being on Board of Directors of the Mono Lake Committee (a very important conservation group in Eastern California).

Does being a publisher of multiple books and a Director (emeritus) of a notable organization fulfill WP:CREATIVE? —hike395 (talk) 07:00, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

IMO it is not enough to fulfill either WP:CREATIVE or WP:BIOGRAPHY. --MelanieN (talk) 15:41, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. — Beloved Freak 09:59, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Searching confirms that she is an author or editor of numerous books about the Sierras, often under the name Genny Schumacher Smith. She has published over a very long time frame, at least from 1958 to 1993.[1] But just being a writer is not enough for notability, and I can't find that anyone has ever written anything ABOUT her writings, or about her. There is very little biographical information about her in the article, and I could find none on the internet. BTW her bio at Amazon is word-for-word identical with this article; did Amazon copy the WP article, or is the article a cut-and-paste from Amazon? --MelanieN (talk) 15:24, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. MelanieN (talk) 15:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Amazon copied the WP article —hike395 (talk) 01:02, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Being the author or co-author of at least six books, a publisher and a former member of the board of an influential non-profit (which won a fight against the city of LA that saved a lake and its ecosystem from being destroyed). She has been a significant figure in creating a body of reference material about a region. --mav (reviews needed) 01:00, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would be happy to agree with you, if I could find any independent reliable sources saying so. --MelanieN (talk) 01:38, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Citing an essay in an RS context? :) A reference to the ultimate answer too. Who said Wikipedians have no sense of humour? That said, let's stick with policies and guidelines. --mav (reviews needed) 02:18, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I use that link as shorthand for WP:INDEPENDENT WP:RELIABLE sources. And we do need such sources; THAT is policy. --MelanieN (talk) 02:53, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

She is called "The Naturalist Queen of the Eastern Sierra" by Colleen Dunn Bates [2]. I'm still looking for more sources —hike395 (talk) 05:40, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's good! I added it to the article. Another one or two like that and her notability will be established. --MelanieN (talk) 15:13, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

She's considered "author of definitive guidebooks to Mammoth" with "over 67,000 copies in print" [3] —hike395 (talk) 08:37, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'm skeptical if that qualifies as a "reliable source", looks more like a blog - well, I see it is an internet page sponsored by "Mammoth Magazine", but that "magazine" seems to be almost content-free and rarely updated.[4] In any case I can't cite the item because it is undated. But keep trying! --MelanieN (talk) 15:54, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.