Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fairfield County Infirmary

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep Madison Seminary; no consensus to delete Sheboygan County Asylum; and draftify all others. BD2412 T 01:05, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fairfield County Infirmary

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Fairfield County Infirmary (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Madison Seminary (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Old South Pittsburg Hospital (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
St. Albans Sanatorium (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Sheboygan County Asylum (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nopeming Sanatorium (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Multiple articles have been created in both draft space and article space at approximately the same time on haunted hospitals and schools. The drafts are being declined as already in article space, but noting that the articles may be nominated for deletion. Some of the drafts were already declined once or twice previously. This appears to be an effort to game the system and to submit articles that have not been reviewed as to verifiability or notability. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Paranormal-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Virginia-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Minnesota-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wisconsin-related deletion discussions. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:02, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all (modified Nov 7 to add) except keep Madison Seminary as its been listed on NRHP; and weak keep on Sheboygan County Asylum which has WP:SIGCOV in local press. Non-notable properties, articles are based on non-reliable sources (paranormal ghost-hunting sites, an "asylum project" wiki) and cannot find reliable sources to support notability. Schazjmd (talk) 20:07, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all. Non-notable on their own, and the paranormal/ghost-hunting commentary pushes them into borderline G3 territory. Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 23:20, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the lot, and block or do whatever is necessary to prevent this editor creating more unsourced, borderline-hoax articles, removing delete/maintenance tags, and generally causing extra work to others with their disruptive behaviour. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:03, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all Clearly non-notable every single one and also like others have said borderline-hoaxish. I'm going to assume good faith on the part of the editor though and just go with delete. Although, a stern warning on their talk page might be good if it hasn't been done already. --Adamant1 (talk) 07:33, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all per all of the above Spiderone 10:45, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The bigger problem here is the editor: Bunnyrabbitbunny just won't listen (or communicate). They never responded to any of the messages left for them. Their only talk page edit is this one, and certainly this edit strikes me as an example of incompetence (resubmitting a draft without doing anything to solve the problems). And they just did this. I'm wondering if we are headed for an indefinite block per WP:CIR: the editor's work is a time sink. Drmies (talk) 16:31, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The WP:CIR issue can be handled separately by a namespace ban for article-space until the "C" is demonstrated. Drafts on clearly non-notable topics can be left to G13 or be MFD'd away, or hopefully in some cases, merged into an existing page by another editor. This will hopefully give a currently-problematic editor a path to becoming a highly respected editor someday. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 16:59, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The creator has finally used their talk page and says they will not be editing anymore. Schazjmd (talk) 17:55, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - See also Hill View Manor (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) , which has been proposed for deletion. If the PROD is removed, it can be bundled in. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:55, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Incubate It looks like some or all of these may have been featured in Destination Fear (2019 TV series). The editor who created most of these pages wikilinked them from the episode list with this set of edits from 23:23, 4 November 2020 to 16:37, 6 November 2020 (other editors also edited in time span). Being featured on only one TV show is WP:ONEEVENT but it suggests that there may be other reliable, independent sources that will demonstrate WP:Notability. Now, it's been said that AFD is not cleanup, so if these are in fact notable but if "incubate" is not the outcome, "keep and improve," "soft-delete, with or without a topic-ban or page-ban for the editor in question" or "WP:Blow it up and start over, with or without a topic/page ban for the editor in question" are all acceptable by me. I say "with or without a topic or page ban" - AFD discussions don't have outcomes that include editor sanctions, but the editor's lack of communications, if continued, may result in sanctions being issued through other venues sooner or later. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:22, 6 November 2020 (UTC) UPDATE - Keep those that pass WP:NBUILDING which pretty much includes any building on the National Register of Historic Places including Madison Seminary.[1] davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 19:38, 7 November 2020 (UTC) Update: I checked the NRHP web site and could not find the other places listed, so I assume they are not. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 20:02, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Madison Seminary [Edit: and Sheboygan County Asylum] - I've worked on that one to the point where I think it deserves to be kept. Will look at the other ones later. If nothing else, there's obviously a competency issue here that needs to be looked at. The creator's talk page is a litany of failures. Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 17:37, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Adding on to the above - Weak Keep and Move Fairfield County Infirmary - it's actually currently called the Clarence E. Miller building and it should be on the NRHP when the next batch is announced. Might need to be saved before then but there is WP:SIGCOV in local press. Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 13:28, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Information The primary author may have retired.[2] To the extent that I have been WP:BITEY I apologize. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:57, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Madison Seminary (thanks to Panyd for the rescue!) and Sheboygan County Asylum, which I've rewritten from sources. On the others I agree with davidwr that they are likely to also have enough local history to be rescuable and so the best solution would be to incubate in draft space any that no one has time to work on this week. Yngvadottir (talk) 11:16, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Madison Seminary and Sheboygan County Asylum, which have been rewritten to establish notability and not entirely be about the paranormal stuff. Incubate the rest; they're in terrible shape now, but a lot of these haunted buildings are historically significant and it's worth trying to save what we can. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 18:01, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The supposed "improvements" to Madison Seminary are references to local Ohio news outlets and IMDB. Sheboygan County Asylum isn't much better. Which really doesn't really help for the notability of either one. So can someone who thinks they pass WP:GNG now point out how that's the case? --Adamant1 (talk) 19:22, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The significant coverage by the television show Destination Fear (2019 TV series) counts towards WP:SIGCOV. Granted, one major source by itself is not enough by itself, but added to the other references, it might be. More likely, the fact that it was covered by this TV show at all probably indicates that there is other coverage out there, perhaps not found by Wikipedia editors, that combined with known sources makes WP:Notability at least high enough to cause this AFD to end as "no consensus to delete" with respect to that article. I expect the same may be true for the rest which were given an episode of their own in that television series. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 19:30, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd have to disagree. I don't think a television show like Destination Fear (2019 TV series), which covers pseudoscientific paranormal claims, contributes to notability. That show would not be considered a WP:RS for content. WP:SIGCOV by that show is as useful as coverage by a tabloid. Schazjmd (talk) 19:40, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Destination Fear isn't RS but I would argue that the house being featured in two major television shows, *and also* a significant local news coverage *and also* the fact that Madison Seminary is on the National Register of Historic Places *and also* Ohio Memory which is published by the State Library of Ohio (so not just a random website), pushes it over the edge. It's very much an edge case but to me all those combined tip it into notable territory. Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 20:08, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Schazjmd: Getting off topic here, but when it comes to pseudoscience [un]-reliable sources, I would say context is everything. If the topic was "do ghosts exist" then no, this would not be a reliable source. If the context is "is such and such a place considered haunted by those who believe in such things and who have taken the time to 'investigate'?" then the answer is yes, it is a reliable source. It's at least as reliable as, say, an independent-source, respected-within-the-fan-community, "non-fiction" book about the engineering of the Starship Enterprise from the Star Trek fictional universe. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 20:13, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NRHP puts it over for me, amended my !vote. Schazjmd (talk) 20:47, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Madison Seminary for being listed on the National Register of Historic Places and Sheboygan County Asylum for enough coverage by the national television show (along with local coverage). Incubate the rest as drafts because they have a chance if someone wants to spend the time (they have potential). Royal broil 03:58, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Only Madison Seminary, due to it being listed on the NRHP. Draftify for the others. JackFromReedsburg (talk | contribs) 19:17, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.