Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Devin Frischknecht (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. This is technically a G4 speedy, as he still fails WP:ATH. None of the Keep voters addressed this fundamental issue. No problem with recreation should he actually reach that bright line at some point. Black Kite 20:08, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Devin Frischknecht

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Was deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Devin Frischknecht a few months back, and it was recreated today. At which point I tagged it for G4 since he's still non-notable as he hasn't played a game. Still fails WP:ATH. Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 01:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep- He's still a member of the Green Bay Packers, a team in the NFL, The HIGHEST level of football.--SKATER ^Speak. 02:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- He really isn't since he's on injured reserve, hasn't played and isn't on the active roster and won't be this season.--Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 02:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Damn Your fast... for those who are about to !vote I suggest looking at the talk page for my points.--SKATER ^Speak. 02:40, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I look at my watchlist too often...haha.--Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 02:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - He might be injured but he was signed to an NFL team which is a feat not accomplished by most players. -Marcusmax(speak) 03:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- A lot of players are signed, yet not all are notable see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mark Lewis (offensive lineman). Unless you've played or had a prolific college career (which Frischknecht did not), you fail WP:ATH.--Giants27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 13:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - It appears he also had a short stint with the Redskins as well but I don't know what came of that. He was a JC All-American according to this, it also appears he played in a preseason game per this presumably where he ended up on the disabled list. He seems notable in my opinion. -Marcusmax(speak) 14:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - Well he went undrafted in the 2009 NFL Draft and signed with the Redskins (note the local coverage, plus the non-notability of undrafted players, see the first AfD), here he was released before the season started, thus never playing a game with the Redskins. The reason Sporting News wrote about it is because the article is on the notable Roydell Williams signing with Washington. He never played with Green Bay either. Fails WP:ATH, no significant coverage, fails WP:GNG.--Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 20:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not true, in the second link he provided it says at the bottom that he was carried out in the 3rd quarter.--SKATER ^Speak. 21:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Preseason doesn't count towards notability, only the regular season and postseason. He was injured in August and the season started in September.--Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 21:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Where does it say that Preseason dosen't count, as fast as I can see it says played at the highest level and he did. It's not a question of season or preseason.--SKATER ^Speak. 22:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's implied. Preseason games DO NOT count towards career stats, seasonal records or Wikipedia notability. If that were true then no athlete's article would ever be deleted and everybody would be notable, because oh yeah he played in a preseason game which isn't a big accomplishment considering A) the starters leave the game after the 1st quarter B) it's an 80 man roster which is nothing like a 53 man C) they don't count for anything. Saying he's notable for playing in the preseason is absurd.--Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 23:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep He is an NFL player. He can be dropped from Wikipedia if the Packers drop him before he achieves ongoing notability. Jim Heaphy (talk) 04:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- IMHO, it'd be a lot easier to delete and recreate when/if he's notable next season.--Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 13:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete CSD G4, still not notable. JBsupreme (talk) 06:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. --Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 13:12, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete A good faith search of NewsBank database reveals very little in the way of non-trivial coverage of Frischknecht in the mainstream media. I find only one short story focusing on him: "Apple Cup evokes good memories for Frischknecht," Lewiston Morning Tribune (Idaho), November 19, 2008. Cbl62 (talk) 19:12, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The main policy your looking for here is WP:ATH to establish his notability which the sources by Marcusmax prove he passes.--SKATER ^Speak. 19:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Skater, you are incorrect. WP:ATH is not policy. If consensus dictates that this person is not notable, it can and should be deleted. JBsupreme (talk) 19:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Skater, it's my understanding based on previous AfD discussions that WP:ATH has been interpreted to require an individual to actually play in a pro game (not just be on a roster or practice squad) to meet that standard. Absent that, one needs to show significant, non-trivial coverage to establish general notability. Cbl62 (talk) 22:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further comment: It looks like he's played in two "pre-season" NFL games but no regular season games. I don't believe pre-season games have been deemed to be enough to pass WP:ATH. Cbl62 (talk) 22:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. While he is an NFL player, he hasn't played a down and is injured. I don't think merely signing with a team automatically grants notability. However, this is not the only reason I say delete. In addition, the current state of the article itself does not establish notability and in my opinion fails WP:BIO. The only source is the player bio on the Packers website. I'd like to see the article expanded to include his college accomplishments (he was signed by a pro team, so he has to have had some accomplishments at the college level) and additional independent sources.—NMajdan•talk 19:07, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG; article can be properly recreated by an admin if & when either of these concerns are met. Giant Snowman 18:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I have expanded the article to note his collegiate accomplishments and the reason why he is on the IR (not lack of talent - he broke both his tibia and fibula in a pre-season game). -Drdisque (talk) 20:11, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I see nothing in the new college career section that makes me feel he's notable. Post season awards would but just a regular college player should be treated as non-notable since it is. Plus, injured reserve means you're injured. I personally knew he wasn't played there due to lack of talent but rather he was waived/injured which means once he cleared waivers he reverts to injured reserved. Once he becomes healthy (which could be a while), he will most likely be released with an injury settlement.--Giants 27(Contribs|WP:CFL 20:14, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.