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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 June 2024

[edit]

In Personal Life, remove: In 2015, Khalifa stated that she was no longer a practicing Catholic.

and replace with:
She is a Catholic.

The archive url works with twitter.com but not x.com.
https://twitter.com/miakhalifa/status/1392973606909464576
https://web.archive.org/web/20210513224305/https://twitter.com/miakhalifa/status/1392973606909464576

Add the category: Category:Roman Catholics

First request (catholic lang.):  Not done as the claim she is not a practicing catholic is reliably sourced.
Second request (twitter link):  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.
Third request (category):  Done Added Lebanese Roman Catholic category.
P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 21:47, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Twitter link is the source for the first and second request. It is a 2021 update on her religious status and is reliable source directly from Khalifa. Here is the updated request:
In Personal Life,
change: In 2015, Khalifa stated that she was no longer a practicing Catholic.
to:
She is a Catholic.[1] Squaredtrig (talk) 23:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Squaredtrig: Good day: when Khalifa stated that she is "a catholic" that does not necessarily mean that the state meant "she is no longer a practicing catholic" is not true. That said, I did  Partly implement your request by clarifying that she still identifies as a Catholic. I think this is a fair compromise since both statements are true. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 19:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@P,TO 19104: The edit is missing the word 'she' before still.
I'm also requesting to move a sentence from Personal Life to Career#Other work: In May 2023, Khalifa has been invited to speak at the Oxford Union and was featured on the front cover of Huck magazine under the headline "We Are All Mia Khalifa". Squaredtrig (talk) 21:22, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Squaredtrig: I fixed that minor error. Question? What is your reason for requesting the removal of that sentence? P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 21:27, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@P,TO 19104: Not a removal, but to move it to Career. It fits better in that section.
Squaredtrig (talk) 21:33, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Squaredtrig: I'm sorry, I misread what you wrote. Yeah that's fine.  Done P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 21:37, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I undid this change. One could read "I'm catholic you twat" as a sarcastic retort to the common misconception that all Arabs are Muslims, especially since it was a direct reply to a tweet accusing Khalifa of "hat[ing] Christians". Saying Khalifa "identifies as a Catholic" goes beyond the intended meaning of the source IMO, and is too much of an exceptional claim to base on a single primary source. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 00:19, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"@Sangdeboeuf: Can "Khalifa stated that she was no longer a practicing Catholic" be changed to "Khalifa stated that she is a non-practicing Catholic"? It's closest to her statement in the BBC article. Squaredtrig (talk) 06:03, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
BBC News actually quotes Khalifa as saying, I'm not a practising Catholic but I was raised Catholic. The existing wording is closer to the meaning of the source IMO. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 00:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Khalifa, Mia (May 13, 2021). "I'm catholic you twat". Twitter. Archived from the original on May 13, 2021.

Suggestion to add real name

[edit]

In the introduction and early life sections of the article, I suggest adding Mia Khalifa's real name, "Sarah Joe (BLP violation removed)." Mia herself has stated in an interview that she is not "Mia" but rather "Sarah Joe," which is also listed in her Instagram bio. Given that this information is publicly shared by Mia Khalifa, it seems appropriate to include her real name in the article.

Proposed changes:

  • Introduction: Change "Mia Khalifa (/miːə kəˈliːfə/; Arabic: ميا خليفة Miyа̄ Ḵalīfah [mijaː χaliːfa(h)]; born 1993[1])" to "Mia Khalifa (/miːə kəˈliːfə/; Arabic: ميا خليفة Miyа̄ Ḵalīfah [mijaː χaliːfa(h)]; born Sarah Joe (BLP violation removed) in 1993[1])."
  • Early life: Add a note that "Khalifa was born as Sarah Joe (BLP violation removed) in Beirut, Lebanon[1]..."

Sources:

This would provide readers with accurate information about her real name while respecting her privacy and following Wikipedia's guidelines.

Thank you for considering this. Daniel Caspi (talk) 17:49, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've redacted the subject's last name, which is not mentioned on their Instagram as claimed. YouTube interviews and podcasts are self-published, so not usable unless published by the subject of the article. Without a good source for the full legal name, adding the personal name "Sarah Joe" is unencyclopedic trivia. We also can't assume someone's legal name is also their birth name.
Per WP:BLPNAME, When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context. Coverage in outlets such as Indy100, Newsweek, and Variety continues to refer to her solely by her stage name as of late 2023, and she still goes by "MiaKhalifa" or "Mia K." on her various social media accounts (Instagram, Twitch, Twitter, YouTube), so I don't see any confusion or loss of context in omitting her legal name here. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 01:10, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the valuable feedback on my previous suggestion. I now understand that my initial proposal could have violated Wikipedia's BLP and NOR policies. As a new editor, I appreciate the guidance, which has helped me better grasp Wikipedia's standards.
After further research, I found reliable sources that support including Mia Khalifa's preferred name, "Sarah Joe." These sources not only confirm that this is her birth name but also highlight her preference to be called by it:
  1. The Sun: States that Mia Khalifa currently prefers to go by her birth name.
  2. LADbible: Discusses her addition of "Sarah Joe" to her Instagram bio, causing confusion among fans.
  3. The Daily Wire: Mentions her birth name, adding credibility to its inclusion.
While her full name "Sarah Joe (BLP violation removed)" is mentioned in these sources, I believe it’s important to respect her preference to be known simply as "Sarah Joe," which is consistent with her birth name.
Thank you for considering this. Daniel Caspi (talk) 07:44, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I forgot to add the links to the three sources mentioned in my previous message. Here they are:
Daniel Caspi (talk) 07:49, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The sources you listed are tabloids. Morbidthoughts (talk) 07:58, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Concur that the above sources are not usable (FWIW, The Sun & LADbible simply call her "Mia", while The Daily Wire actually uses "Khalifa" throughout). Once again, the subject's supposed preference to be known by her birth name is certainly odd given that she uses some version of "Mia Khalifa" on all her social media accounts. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 09:09, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I want to thank the experienced editors for their feedback, which is helping me better understand Wikipedia's guidelines and improve my contributions.
I acknowledge that LADBIBLE and The Sun are entertainment news outlets and not generally considered reliable. However, they are relevant when discussing a public figure in the media and entertainment world like Mia Khalifa.
The Daily Wire, on the other hand, is a serious news outlet with a conservative perspective, not a tabloid.
More importantly, regardless of the debate over her birth or legal name, Mia Khalifa has publicly identified herself as "Sarah Joe" several times. She continues to present this name on her Instagram account, where she has 26 million followers. This shows that while she still uses "Mia Khalifa," she also publicly shares the name "Sarah Joe."
[Link to Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/miakhalifa/?hl=en] Daniel Caspi (talk) 09:32, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By exclusively using Mia Khalifa's stage name, we risk overlooking her deliberate choice to also publicly identify as Sarah Joe. This choice reflects her agency in shaping her own narrative, balancing her professional persona with her personal identity. Acknowledging both names allows us to respect the complexity of her multifaceted character. Mia Khalifa is not just the adult actress who debuted with that name years ago; she is also a human being with a past and a personal life beyond her public persona. Since she has chosen to use both names on her widely followed profile, it’s appropriate that we recognize and acknowledge both as integral parts of her identity, past and present. Daniel Caspi (talk) 12:38, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have lower standards for reliable sources when it comes to public figures or people in entertainment. (Variety is an example of a reliable entertainment news outlet that is already cited in the article.) The Sun has been deprecated since 2019, and The Daily Wire is known for failing to fact-check their stories; see both listed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. The only discussion of LADbible on the reliable sources noticeboard generally endorses a view of the site as lowest common denominator clickbait content. The DW article is also an attack on Khalifa's views about Israel, which is an odd choice to support her personal identity.
If there are actual reliable sources for Khalifa's deliberate choice to also publicly identify as Sarah Joe, feel free to present them. So far the sources presented have not been reliable. Khalifa's Instagram profile includes "Sarah Joe" without context in the first line of the bio, but the actual name on the top of the profile is still "Mia K. (she/her)".
While BLP policy requires us to be sensitive to a subject's wishes to omit certain identifying information, there's no requirement that we include a subject's real or legal name. We also don't engage in original research about the nature of someone's multifaceted character. Rather, we use the name(s) preferred by a majority of published, reliable sources. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 22:10, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you to the experienced editors for your thorough feedback and guidance throughout this discussion. After reflecting on your comments and the reliable sourcing standards that Wikipedia upholds, I realize that my initial argument had significant flaws. It's clear that the sources I provided do not meet the reliability criteria needed to substantiate the inclusion of "Sarah Joe" as part of Mia Khalifa's name in the article.
I now understand that, despite Mia Khalifa's use of "Sarah Joe" in some public contexts, without strong and reliable sourcing it would not be appropriate to include it in Wikipedia's article given the encyclopedic standards and character of the platform. Therefore, I agree that it is not necessary or appropriate to add "Sarah Joe" to the article at this time.
I appreciate the time and effort you all took to help me better understand Wikipedia's standards and practices. Your feedback has been valuable in improving my approach to editing on this platform.
Thank you once again, and I consider this discussion closed from my side.
Best regards,
Daniel Caspi (talk) [insert date and time] (UTC) Daniel Caspi (talk) 07:55, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just noticed that the Daily Wire source is marked as "opinion", making it even less reliable than I thought before. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 02:31, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sangdeboeuf, The Sun (United Kingdom) was deemed unreliable but The US Sun mentions her birth name as "Sarah Joe Chamoun", which she dropped during an interview (a primary source just to negate the whole argument that she is hiding her real name including the othe rprimiary sources mentioned by @Daniel Caspi before). Also, a The New Arab article mentions her birth name. Also there is a recently published book, L'Arabe confus (English: Confused Arab), mentions her birth name. add that to LADbible article and UNILAD article.
This is really not a hidden fact or a deadname. Many artists adopt different names, do you think Bob Dylan actually name is that? he was born Robert Allen Zimmerman, mentioned at the beginning of a featured article. Btw all born stars have a stage name, for example, Stormy Daniels is born Stephanie A. Gregory. Jesse Jane is Cynthia Ann Howell, there are countless examples. FuzzyMagma (talk) 15:05, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is suggesting Khalifa's real name is hidden, although it's fair to say she did conceal her legal name until recently. The main concern is a lack of reliable sources. The U.S. Sun is just the American version of The Sun. Both are deprecated in the perennial sources index. LADbible (which also owns UNILAD) has been discussed at length above. The New Arab article is clearly marked as "opinion". Diary Of A CEO is a self-published podcast. The only potentially reliable source here seems to be L'Arabe confus, but the specific page is not shown in preview. I'm also unaware of the general reliability of the publisher Place des éditeurs [fr], but they do at least seem to be an established publishing house.
Not all porn stars use a stage name; for instance, Angela White uses her legal name in her work. The other BLPs you mention are not comparable; Stormy Daniels was involved in widely publicized litigation against a sitting U.S. president, while Jesse Jane's birth name was mentioned in her New York Times obituary.
Once again, WP:BLPNAME states, When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed ... it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context. It seems unlikely that any reader would be confused or surprised by the absence of Khalifa's legal name, especially when her stage name is prominent on all her social media accounts as well as in mainstream news coverage. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 20:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I will leave it to that then FuzzyMagma (talk) 08:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also found another book Special:BookSources/9798340910875, but the author is not notable. Web-julio (talk) 09:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not only is the author not notable, but Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP) is a self-publishing platform, making the book a self-published source and thus not usable. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 17:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relationships

[edit]

The boyfriend Robert Sandberg is Swedish, not American. Please edit this. 94.234.98.80 (talk) 02:29, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done, thanks. Commander Keane (talk) 05:12, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"I'm catholic" tweet

[edit]

It seems a bit of an edit war is brewing in the article about Catholicism or something. Pleass develop consensus on the talk page before more edits are made. I would hate to see the article fully protected or blocks issued. @Natemup and Sangdeboeuf:. Commander Keane (talk) 02:50, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia policy under both WP:WEIGHT and WP:EXCEPTIONAL discourage replacing Khalifa's statement to a major news outlet that she was raised Catholic but is "not a practising Catholic" with a throwaway response to a random Internet troll such as "I'm catholic you twat". To me this tweet seems to be snarkily addressing the common misconception that all Arabs are Muslim, especially as a reply to a person who accused Khalifa of "hating Christians".
Khalifa saying "I'm catholic" is pretty vague. Does she mean "I was raised Catholic", "my family is Catholic", "I practice Catholicism", or something else? According to Pew Research, many "cultural Catholics" are people for whom being Catholic is a matter of ancestry and/or culture, not religion. There's also been no sign of the "multiple times" that Khalifa has supposedly identified herself as a Catholic. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 11:13, 26 October 2024 (UTC) edited 04:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The 2021 tweet came several years after the interview referenced, so there's every reason to replace it. And since we can't answer your question as to what she means specifically in the tweet, it seems safe to just say in the article that "she is Catholic". Since that's what she said, in 2014 and 2021. Maybe add an additional sentence saying that she has also said she doesn't actively practice (i.e., go to church or whatever). In any case, the original research you've shared with us here should have no bearing whatsoever on the personal life section in question. natemup (talk) 13:30, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OR doesn't apply to talk pages. I am not suggesting we include anything that doesn't exist in reliable, published sources. BBC News is a pretty ironclad news source, so saying she is Catholic in Wikipedia's voice would be an WP:EXCEPTIONAL claim that requires more than a single primary source contradicting the BBC article. Nor is there any policy I'm aware of that says tweets are better than independent sources depending on their age. Even attributing the statement to the author runs into WP:POV territory given the ambiguous meaning of "Catholic". Which source says she described herself as Catholic in 2014? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 18:19, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
She tweeted the statement twice, in 2014 and 2021. And I think it's pretty obvious that a person speaking for themself is always the most reliable source. Lol natemup (talk) 05:36, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
People speaking for themselves are not always the most reliable source. Sometimes people have conflicts of interest. Sometimes people lie or exaggerate. Sometimes people shitpost. Where are these supposed tweets from 2014 and 2021? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 05:47, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On Twitter. Have a good day. natemup (talk) 15:08, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Links please. Otherwise these "statements" may as well not exist. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 15:36, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary. "Otherwise," you simply have not looked them up yourself. I did, and I added one to the article. You deleted it and have provided specious arguments here that say her personal statements don't even matter. So why would I go look them up again just for you? natemup (talk) 21:03, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not my job to look up references for you. The burden to provide citations is on the editor who wishes to add disputed material. You haven't provided any tweets of hers from 2014. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:37, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And I don't have to. I began this entire ordeal by making an edit with a personal statement from 2021. That was the burden of proof. It was never in doubt. You, out of nowhere, deleted it and started crying here that her own words should be subordinate to a previous article from a third party, apparently because "I'm Catholic" is vague (to you). Simple as. You have no high ground here. natemup (talk) 00:56, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've provided several policy-based rationales (among others) to omit the 2021 tweet in favor of the BBC News coverage. If you dispute those rationales, you're welcome to take it up at WP:BLP/N or another dispute resolution mechanism. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 02:02, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's also her recent New York Times interview where the author once again states that Khalifa was "raised Catholic" but says nothing about her personal religion. If this were a noteworthy detail, I would expect at least a passing mention. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 02:25, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Raised Catholic" means she was raised Catholic. That's clearly a reference to her personal religion. This is so silly! natemup (talk) 04:04, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By "personal religion" I mean a religion that Khalifa personally practices and believes in. There's nothing about Khalifa's personal religious practice in any source I've seen besides the BBC. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 14:28, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Except multiple personal statements of "I'm Catholic," that is. natemup (talk) 18:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you suggesting that Khalifa became a practicing Catholic again sometime after 2015? That's an exceptional claim that needs more than a single primary source contradicting what she's said previously about not practicing Catholicism. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 18:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to agree that she can consider herself Catholic even when she's not practicing. Therefore, there's no inherent conflict with sticking the weight on how the BBC report presented it. Morbidthoughts (talk) 02:08, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's just it. We have no idea whether she's practicing or not. The latest "I'm Catholic" tweet came several years after the BBC article. She could have resumed practicing or God knows what in that time. The latest info, and the only such info straight from the source, is that she's Catholic. Hence, it seems that's what the personal life section should state. natemup (talk) 04:07, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have no idea whether she's practicing or not is exactly why we should avoid statements such as "I'm Catholic" that are open to multiple interpretations. This could be read by some readers as saying that Khalifa became a practicing Catholic again at some point. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 14:32, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Or it could be simply as ambiguous (or straightforward) as she intended when she said, without qualification, "I'm Catholic". natemup (talk) 18:10, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ask again: does "I'm Catholic" mean "I was raised Catholic", "my family is Catholic", "I practice Catholicism", or something else? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 18:48, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most Catholics are not practicing Catholics, anyone who assumes a Catholic person is necessarily a practicing Catholic is biased. However, critcism against Indifferentism or cultural catholics exist, but that's a form of Religious intolerance that we should avoid. Web-julio (talk) 09:31, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 November 2024

[edit]

Please add her real name. It’s (BLP violation removed). Akehs (talk) 08:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a reliable source for us to cite? - Adolphus79 (talk) 15:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 15:49, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just want to note that, as of currently, her instagram no longer lists the name "Sarah Joe" at all. Hamamelis (talk) 11:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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