Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 20:34, 26 October 2011

Click here to add a new enforcement request
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important information

Shortcuts

Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

Arbitration enforcement archives

1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20
21	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30	31	32	33	34	35	36	37	38	39	40
41	42	43	44	45	46	47	48	49	50	51	52	53	54	55	56	57	58	59	60
61	62	63	64	65	66	67	68	69	70	71	72	73	74	75	76	77	78	79	80
81	82	83	84	85	86	87	88	89	90	91	92	93	94	95	96	97	98	99	100
101	102	103	104	105	106	107	108	109	110	111	112	113	114	115	116	117	118	119	120
121	122	123	124	125	126	127	128	129	130	131	132	133	134	135	136	137	138	139	140
141	142	143	144	145	146	147	148	149	150	151	152	153	154	155	156	157	158	159	160
161	162	163	164	165	166	167	168	169	170	171	172	173	174	175	176	177	178	179	180
181	182	183	184	185	186	187	188	189	190	191	192	193	194	195	196	197	198	199	200
201	202	203	204	205	206	207	208	209	210	211	212	213	214	215	216	217	218	219	220
221	222	223	224	225	226	227	228	229	230	231	232	233	234	235	236	237	238	239	240
241	242	243	244	245	246	247	248	249	250	251	252	253	254	255	256	257	258	259	260
261	262	263	264	265	266	267	268	269	270	271	272	273	274	275	276	277	278	279	280
281	282	283	284	285	286	287	288	289	290	291	292	293	294	295	296	297	298	299	300
301	302	303	304	305	306	307	308	309	310	311	312	313	314	315	316	317	318	319	320
321	322	323	324	325	326	327	328	329	330	331	332	333	334	335	336	337	338	339	340
341	342

Tuscumbia

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Tuscumbia

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:52, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Tuscumbia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[1] First revert on Gülablı article on 27 Sept.
[2] Second revert on Gülablı article on 27 Sept.
[3] Third revert on Gülablı article on 28 Sept.
[4] First revert on 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing article on 30 Sept.
[5] Second revert on 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing article on 30 Sept.
[6] Third revert on 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing article on 3 Oct.
[7] Fourth revert 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing article on 3 Oct.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on [8] by Stifle (talk · contribs)
Warned on [9] by Magog the Ogre (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The recent edits which I have highlighted above are what I believe a mere sampling of the improper conduct of user Tuscumbia. Though well-acquainted with the rules of Wikipedia and after editing here for well over three years and after having been topic-banned for no less than three times, Tuscumbia displays an editing behavior that is highly unwelcome and needlessly combative. As the above examples show, he demonstrates a proclivity to edit war excessively and to engage immediately in revert wars over the most insignificant issues rather than taking part in fruitful discussions (in what can best be termed as having issues of WP:OWNERSHIP). Even when tags are added to an article, long after an editor has expressed his misgivings on the pertinent issues, he still decides to remove them and claims the other editor's concerns as baseless. But is that really his judgment to make? Although in discussions reasonable arguments (to most viewers) are introduced, Tuscumbia chooses to play games and makes burdensome and unrealistic demands which are not all in accord with Wikipedia's guidelines but appear to aim mainly to exhaust the other editors' patience. And when a user finally expresses his exasperation over these type of time-consuming edits, all he receives is a response like this: "You know what? You can complain as much as you want because that's the only thing you're capable of..." ([10]). How do remarks like this help at all? And even after his long time spent on Wikipedia, he still feels he can create articles with such non neutral POV opening sentences as "The Vrezh...is an underground militant movement reportedly created by Dashnak leadership in 1989 to torment Azerbaijan..." [11] until another editor informs him of why such wording is so problematic.

Much as I was opposed to it, I was told to present here my grievances by an administrator who is relatively familiar with such cases. I myself do not know what is to be done but familiar as I am with Tuscumbia's long history of edit wars and his tendency to make snide remarks against other editors, I believe perhaps a form of revert parole needs to be established to compel him to express his views on the talk page, rather than drive him to press the revert button with whatever edit he disagrees with. His attitude toward others must also become more constructive because what he is doing can best be termed as stonewalling. Regards, --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:52, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I should like to add that this request has been re-listed after being archived by the bot on October 10.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 20:53, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, even though Tuscumbia has been warned and topic banned twice for specifically choosing to exclude a sources based on his or her ethnicity, he still continues to use it in his arguments as evidenced by a remark he made just today.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 16:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is, for the record, the second time I am re-listing this complaint. While my original comments may now appear to be stale, I should just like to highlight Tuscumbia's comment here. Even after being topic banned and warned for bringing up the ethnicity of an author as a reason to exclude possibly a source, he continues to raise it as a major point in such arguments.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:02, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tuscumbia, please do not misrepresent my comments. My considerations are based solely on the scholarly credentials of individuals, as well as the political environments they work in. If a source has a known affiliation which can credibly be raised as prejudicing their conclusions, then something to has to be said. That is not the same as touting someone's ethnic heritage as a reason to exclude an author, for which you have given ample warning. And Sandstein's "restriction", for the record, was just a courteous reminder and something that is given whenever someone edits on Wikipedia. He did not necessarily have to tell me that such comments were unacceptable since this is a common fact. Now please stop shifting the argument to me and please tell us why a source's ethnic heritage is sole grounds for sudden exclusion or suspicion.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:13, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[12]

Discussion concerning Tuscumbia

Statement by Tuscumbia

Frankly, I don't even know how to react to this report which has no grounds, no evidence of wrongdoing and most importanly, is filed in bad faith. First off, the report itself is apparently filed in retaliation to the report I had filed on Takabeg which also included the inputs from Marshal Bagramyan. You might notice that ever since that report was filed (and was archived without result for reasons which I still don't understand), Marshal has been following me on articles I created such as 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing, 1991 Azerbaijani Mil Mi-8 shootdown and Vrezh in an obvious attempt of trolling and disruptive editing activity. Now, I would understand if an editor has grounds for concern and puts forward reliable sources to support his arguments, but you will not see that in Marshal's edits and arguments. I will present that evidence below.

Article Gülablı: In his report above, Marshall hides the evidence of his wrongdoing. On September 15, he made this edit, replacing the legitimate name of Gulabli with Vazgenashen, which is an illegitimate name given by the separatist authorities currently in control of the village, albeit the name Gulabli is sourced from a neutral GEOnet Names Server. More importantly though, he added this Armeniapedia link as a source for his additions. Armeniapedia is a one sided unreliable source owned and operated by User:RaffiKojian ([13]) who has been recently collaborating with Marshall on articles Dashalty and Barda, Azerbaijan. Off-Wiki coordination? His second edit is the revert to his version from User Dighapet and third edit is the revert from my version where I restored information based on neutral sources, including the name Vazgenashen as called by Armenians and adding links to other Wikipedia, removing the Azerbaijani drone shootdown section which incorrectly referred to the village as Vazgenashen, based on Armenian news piece Armenian Reporter. My second revert on September 27 13:58 and one on September 28, commenting on existence of POV on the talk page [14] and [15]. As another user Vugar mentioned providing a link to Wikimapia, the village Vazgenashen is not even the same village. See the map and description in Russian: Село, построенное после Карабахской войны для армян-беженцев (A village, built for Armenian refugees after Karabakh war)

Article 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing, my revert on September 30 is the undoing of Marshall's I DON'T LIKE IT attitude, where he replaced the word "terrorist" and removed the affiliation of the terrorist group to Dashnaks, completely disregarding the sources [16] and [17] which corroborate the text of the article. My second revert is undoing of the edit by a sockpuppet Szeget of an infamous sock master Xebulon (I do wonder how this sockpuppet finds his ways to be on the same page as Marshall. Off-wiki coordination? Ducking?) My first revert on October 3 is undoing of Marshall's violation of WP:OR and WP:IDONTLIKEIT because all he does is change the sourced data to make it seem less reliable by removing words like "perpetrators" and reference to Dashnaks, again, when the text is supported by sources and while Marshall does not provide a single source for his changes although I repeatedly asked him to provide sources which corroborate his argument and changes [18], [19], [20] which he, in turn, calls "overburdensome request". My secondrevert on October 3 is the removal of POV and Unreliability tags which Marshall added on October 3 in the absence of any sources to support his arguments and changes. To sum up, instead of looking for sources supporting his arguments, he likes to just add tags. Tags are added when something is disputable and both sides present sources upon which compromise is being reached. This user adds tags as last resort to mislabel the article, already well sourced.

Article Vrezh, sourced with 3 reliable sources: Marshall was just as active in disputing the data in this article. While his mentioning of reportedly created by Dashnak leadership in 1989 to torment Azerbaijan above is correct, he selectively forgets to mention that I did respond to him saying I was going to add quotation marks to the words directly quoted from the book: the Dashnak leadership created an underground armed movement called Vrezh ('vengeance' in Armenian) which was to torment Azerbaijan and the northern Caucasus for years to come, but that I reworded it to ...to fight Azerbaijan and authorities in Northern Caucasus by bombing civilian targets, which still didn't satisfy Marshall and to which his response was the information is copied from "Azerbaijani websites", which is a baseless claim by itself because no Azerbaijani website has been used in creating this article. Needless to say, Marshall's arguments derive from not liking what is sourced in the article.

Last, but not least, Marshall's misuse of admin's note as if it were instructions from AGK to report me, is simply an act of intended misrepresentation. AGK asked to report your concerns on this board to resolve the issues instead of asking him to resolve in on his page, not because he reviewed the evidence and supports you.

One more thing Marshall selectively forgets when bashing me about topic bans, is that he himself has been a subject to revert paroles and topic bans on AA2 4 times, including an indefinite topic-ban on Azerbaijan-Armenian pages (later reduced to one month) and indefinite restriction for making derogatory statments about sources or their authors based on nationaility, place, publication or similar general characteristic. So, who is really a long time edit-warrior and displays disruptive behavior?

I, in the years of editing (less that Marshall has spent) have created 343 articles for various subjects including oil and gas fields, government bodies and institutions, food and drinks, TV shows and personalities, crime, terrorism related to Norway, United States, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Brazil, Germany, Sweden, Russia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Angola, Romania, etc. It just happens that most of articles I created fall under category Azerbaijan which seemingly causes discontent for MarshallBagramyan who decided to get rid of me. I think the admininstrators of this board should take a thorough look at the evidence, including Marshall's long term wrongdoings and take adequate action. Tuscumbia (talk) 14:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am really not sure where exactly on the discussion page of the article Marshall sees me "excluding" authors based on ethnicity, as he tries to entrap me into enforcement? What I said was that while the data is conflicting (see on 1823 data from neutral authors and 1897 census of Russia), and while he discredits neutral authors who have no relative affiliation to Azerbaijan, the author of Armenian heritage is more likely to write in favor of Armenian side of the story than those unrelated to Azerbaijan authors in favor of Azerbaijani side. And this is all because Marshall tries to dismiss any reliable neutral source which does not support his claims. My full response on Marshall's misinterpretation is on the talk page of the article. Tuscumbia (talk) 17:08, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Response to the additional note for relisting

The user MarshallBagramyan who filed this report and who twice relisted it on this board fails to highlight his own wrongdoings. I will address the above addition by Marshall on my comment about his selective sourcingfirst. First of all, the comment has nothing to do with ethnicity of the author per se but should rather be reviewed in the actual context of discussion on conflicting census data. And the resume of the discussion is that:

George Bournoutian (Marshall's source who is of Armenian heritage) says one thing
Four other authors, namely, Anoushiravan Ehteshami, Svante Cornell, Frederick Coene and Suzanne Goldenberg (neither one of them Azerbaijani nor Armenian) say something different.
I additionally provided basis (from Russian Imperial Census) for my argument that considering various parts of the census data, there are grounds for indepth analysis of Marshall's source which are also voiced by the four authors in their books. Hence the discussion of the sources on the talk page of the article. So, what another editor (Neftchi/Mursel) initially did in full compliance was that he retained Marshall's earlier addition but also added an alernative view of four authors indicating "According to...", etc. However, Marshall went on discrediting those four authors, claiming that his source prevails. Furthermore, he deleted one of the sources (by Suzanne Goldberg) and even added a link in Further Reading section to the point of view by his source George Bournoutian which criticizes other alternative views.

So, what we have is:

the author used by Marshall (George Bournoutian) who is of an Armenian heritage and writes in favor of Armenian version of demographic changes in the region and criticizes all other alternative views;
four authors used by Neftchi (Anoushiravan Ehteshami, Svante Cornell, Frederick Coene and Suzanne Goldenberg) who are of Persian, Swedish, Jewish heritage and write alternative views countering George Bournoutian's version of events.

And Marshall is favoring Bournoutian over other unrelated to Azerbaijan authors. Where is the logic here? That's what I was highlighting in my comment. Tuscumbia (talk) 19:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Another important fact about author-bashing

As you will witness from this thread, Marshall is attempting to get a well sourced article using the same tactics. Please take a look at his first comment where he bashes an unbiased neutral author Charles van der Leeuw saying "...some of them also have a discernible affiliation with Azerbaijan, such as Charles van der Leeuw..." and then please take a look at his other statement a few days earlier saying "...even the two non-Azerbaijani government affiliated sources, van der Leeuw and Bolukbasi, make use of the word allegedly...". So, it looks like Marshall knows a particular author is not affiliated with any government and is unbiased, yet he discredits authors when he wants and how he wants when their certain works or arguments cause him much discomfort. Again, this is a user who has himself been placed under indefinite restriction for making derogatory statments about sources or their authors based on nationaility, place, publication or similar general characteristic and has violated his three months topic ban (from Jule 23 to october 23, 2010) in edits like this one adn was not blocked as a result. Tuscumbia (talk) 19:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Tuscumbia

I'm pretty swamped in meatspace. Can someone else take a look at this?--Tznkai (talk) 23:17, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just blocked User:Kermanshahi and User:Takabeg pursuant to edit warring requests. Not sure if that is relevant here.--Tznkai (talk) 20:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Tuscumbia

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Link to the remedy you want enforced, not the case. It is a small thing, but it is you who should be doing these small things, instead of making an already difficult task that much more work.--Tznkai (talk) 23:57, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Atabəy

Both Atabəy and Khodabandeh14 were placed under 6-month topic bans by User:Tznkai. EdJohnston (talk) 19:03, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Atabəy

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Khodabandeh14 (talk) 21:29, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Atabəy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Sanction or remedy to be enforced: [remedies]

I am asking for permanent ban of Atabəy (talk · contribs) on Armenia/Iran related topics (and those of Armenia/Iran that overlap with any other topic). Note Atabəy (talk · contribs) had the previous name Atabek (talk · contribs) and has been in two arbcomms, as well as banned permanently from some topic. [remedies]

I would like to bring to attention my attempt to get a third party viewpoint on the discussion in Anti-Turkism as well as the discussion page in Anti-Turkism.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[21] violates WP:NPA WP:NOTBATTLE on two users, specially this quote attacking a third party mediator (not from the region but an expert on history) who gave his opinion. Atabey states: "@Folantin, instead of pandering to Khodabandeh14's nationalist WP:POV and attempting to insult me". So a 3rd party user is accused of "pandering to my nationalist POV"!
[22] WP:SOAPBOX " I personally don't see how Hitler blaming Jews for troubles of Germany in Mein Kampf is different from Ferdowsi demonizing Turanians/Turks vs Persian pride in Shahnameh. One may look more ancient than the other, and no action would have been taken after Shahnameh, simply because Turks ruled Iran at the time. But it does not change the essence of intolerance" (user is equating a mythological book about mythical battles with Hitler/Mein Kemp which is WP:SOAPBOX] and inflammatory).
[23] violates WP:ATTACK by first bolding the word you and then threatening the user to spend some time in Arbcomm. "So unless, you, Folantin, (not Khodabandeh with another WP:FORUM) can provide a sensible response to opinions of other authors about Shahnameh being essentially anti-Turkish "bible" of Persian nationalism, you should not be using LOLs, Oh Wells, or worse, calling me a fool. Moreover, if Khodabandeh14 uses your one-sided opinions in formulating an opinion in talk pages, then you should probably spend some time as a party to ArbCom case he is currently pursuing to open - that is taking a position in a handful of edit conflicts that he is involved with pushing POV. ". Clear violations of WP:NPA and WP:NOTBATTLE.
[24] "It is impossible to conclude that in a country which takes pride of Shahnameh, and where expression "Tork-e khar" (Turkish donkey) is a popular way of insulting ethnic Turks, there is no Turcophobia whatsoever" WP:SOAP, and WP:NOTBATTLE.
[25] "What is more relevant to this article, is that using the word Turk, Ferdowsi anachronisticially attributed to them an image of alien, an enemy. That is a reason why, compounded with numerous Turkic invasions, a deep sense of anti-Turkism is inherited over centuries in Persian-speaking society" violates WP:SOAP, and WP:NOTBATTLE. (Note the second part: "That is a reason why..." is not in a source and is a WP:SOAPBOX and WP:NOTBATTLE violation which is not any source. Basically that is like accusing all blacks to be anti-white or all whites to be anti-black...also not related to the topic at all).
[26] " Iam just drawing comparison that by essence of anti-Turkish intolerance that Shahnameh has incited (which is obvious in ongoing edit conflicts of Khodabandeh14 on Turkey-Azerbaijan-Iran related topics), it was not far from Mein Kampf inciting anti-Semitism. You may consider my view in context of Goodwin's law, and I will consider your inability to respond in detail to references above to lack of time or interest. Hence, Khodabandeh14 simply cannot use your view as a conclusive third party opinion on Anti-Turkism. " (note the user is stating that I am pursuing "anti-Turkish intolerance" which is again violation of WP:SOAPBOX and WP:BATTLE. He has accused other users priorly of this charge and was one of the reasons he got sanctioned last time. For example his accusation on Kansas Bear with the charge of Turcophobia:[27])
[28] I'll bring what a third party user said about the POV pushing. Folantin responding to Atabek's belittling WP:BATTLE/WP:SOAPBOX comment that "is Khodabandeh14 your Spokesperson"?. Folantin (responding to Atabek's accusation) wrote: "is Khodabandeh14 your spokesperson?" Khodabandeh has made some sensible, evidence-based comments about Ferdowsi. You have compared Ferdowsi to Hitler.. Who is responsible for your coming across as a fool here, him or you? Now if you don't mind I'm off to add Geoffrey of Monmouth to the Anglophobia article. His stories about King Arthur's resistance to the Anglo-Saxon invasion are dreadfully biased against my ancestors. Let's ignore the fact the English later adopted Arthur as one of their own, it doesn't disguise the innate racism and Celtic supremacism of Merlin and his bigoted ilk. There is no difference between The History of the Kings of Britain and Mein Kampf. -"" .. (the last three sentences are obviously sarcastic because of the bad POV atmosphere created by Atabek. Thus we can completely see that a 3rd neutral party expert sees clear POV pushing. Consequently my attempt to seek 3rd party mediation failed because of the POV pushing and WP:NOTBATTLE/WP:SOAPBOX comments).

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Atabəy (talk · contribs) had the previous name Atabek (talk · contribs) and has been in two arbcomms, as well as banned permanently from some topic. [remedies]. The most recent sanction whose full report can be found here: [29] was in May 2011. The result was: "Atabəy (talk · contribs) is banned from Iranian topics including the Safavids for three months and is under an indefinite restriction to 1RR/week per the result of a thread at WP:AE. Notified. EdJohnston (talk) 04:09, 6 May 2011 (UTC)"[[30]] Saygi1 (talk · contribs) is notified: [31] --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 02:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

It would be good if EdJohnston looks at this case as he was the one that enforced the last sanction. He is familiar with my edits, Atabey's edit and Folantin's helpful comment as a 3rd party mediator.

I tried to make Arbcomm aware that the problem is POV battle pushing [32] which needs a mechanism like Russian wikipedia. If such a mechanism is not enforced, then I will quit. However, before quitting, I should note what made me propose such mechanism is exactly such users. I have wasted archives after archives with such users and it was a great waste of time. English wikipedia is too inept to unfortunately handle problematic articles in one day. So I decided to seek third party dispute resolution. I sought third party comments from two admins who are familiar with the classical history of the area and are known for the objectivity. However, the discussion ended with the admin concluding: "No, I'm done here. By comparing The Shahnameh and Mein Kampf and thus resorting to reductio ad Hitlerum, Atabey has violated Godwin's law and the discussion is therefore over. "[33]. This is a result of WP:SOAPBOX, WP:NPA and WP:NOBATTLE. So even though the Arbcomm case is likely not approved (because they claim that other methods exists which does not), I tried third party dispute resolution, and instead the comments above popped out. I might have made some comments myself outside the discussion, but this has to do with past experience and evidence I sent to arbcomm. All the above are violations of fundamental policies. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:45, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I said the admin EdJohnston is very familiar with this user and the case. So this report was made due to the fact that he emposed the previous section. At one point in his talkpage, he was about to give a permanent ban to Atabek for WP:NOTBATTLE comments and not cooperating with a 3rd party. This time, he did not cooperate at all with two 3rd party admins. He was the one gave the last sanction to Atabek in May (banned for 3 months on all Iran related topics). My record is clean and I have not had any prior AA warnings. I also can answer all the chargers below:

Charge 1 of Atabek is baseless as I am trying to get opinions for an Arbcomm on a proposal from users who are experiencing nationalistic bickering and also admins who had to constantly deal with the issue. It is not canvassing for votes, but rather to get feedback on a proposal.
Charge 2 is a report to EdJohnston on his page, but EdJohnston as usual would want a formal request. This is all it is. No violation of wikipedia rule.
Charge 3 Dbachmman/Folantin actually left the discussion after Atabek's comment not mine. They never made any negative comments about my messages, but they made several on Atabek['s comments.
Charge 4 is a copy & paste from an open site. I copied & paste some messages from that open site and by mistake a name popped out. The next message I delete the name (2 minutes later). The message can be deleted for good as it was a copy & paste mistake. I just wanted to demonstrate that there is actual racism going on the off-line wikipedia lists and user should not be preaching to Dbachmann. I believe the user brought the Hitler, Nazis, Mein Kemp, Skinhead and etc. into unrelated discussion due to Dbachmann's Germany ancestory. As far as I know that evidence I sent to Arbcomm was accepted by Arbcomm never took action. As noted in Russian wikipedia such a list was used to ban 30 people. But admins can always delete any message that they properly deem violates any privacy concern as I try to follow that rule to the best of my knowledge (when I deleted a name 2 minutes after). I have had no prior violations.
I should note that I am not a party in AA1 or AA2, and only had one violation in my whole editing history which was overtuned quickly. This cannot compare to a user who had multiple AA1/AA2 violations and none of my comments demonstrate WP:BATTLE as I initiated the feedback from Dbachmman and Folantin (who firmly rejected the POV push of the user).

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [34] (user notified)

@Tznkai, thanks for the proposal but also I would like to get the feedback of EdJohnston who is familiar with the case. I have no prior topic bans, AA warnings or etc. The user on the other hand was topic banned recently. Admins need to go through the comments carefully. I asked for 3rd party feedback and the third party was attacked by: ""@Folantin, instead of pandering to Khodabandeh14's nationalist WP:POV ". Basically, the admins need to reread the discussion that took place. As I said, EdJohnston is very familiar with this case and he handed out a 3 month ban on Atabek in late May 2011. So I really want to hear his feedback on this issue as well. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 18:53, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to note that there is more bad accusations here. Atabek claims I reverted him here: [35] which is a bad faith accusation, since he was banned from that article for POV pushing. That is right, he was topic banned from that specific article for POV pushing (see the discussion there where he uses a 1909 popular source to push POV against all evidence). In that page, he pushed "Two sources from 1905 and 1913" while ignoring all modern sources. I think if admins look at that 2008 edits (for he was topic banned from that article) and compare to his modern edits, there is no improvement as it is all about pushing a sort of ethnic agenda. But my edit had nothing to with Atabek, rather I added sources to the article and looked at the talkpage. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 20:14, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to recall the previous AE sanction case which I filed against Atabek [36]. What makes the admins think that a 6 month ban is sufficient? I have a clean record and I was not involved in AA1/AA2 topics. I asked for mediation and instead the user brought up hitler, mein kemp and accused the 3rd party neutral user of ""@Folantin, instead of pandering to Khodabandeh14's nationalist WP:POV ". I do really believe sanctions are needed here, and although I could not see any mistakes by myself, I do see huge violations of WP:NPA and WP:NOTBATTLE from Atabek. Specifically, when he gets into a disagreement, he has several time accused users of anti-Turkism or what not. Simply the atmosphere created by the user is not conducive to wikipedia. How many chances do users get? Just note he did not listen a 3rd party mediator here (Gareth) here either: [37][38]. Just one quote: " I still fail to see why Tigran is pushing Armenian POV, when Abgar had nothing to do with Armenia. Tiridates acceptance of Christianity in Armenia was also a legend, so there is no reason why one legend is more important than the other, while several authors confirm the fact of Abgar VIII's acceptance of Christianity by 201. I am ready to present more references to my edit, than dozens already presented in my version. But the information is already out, and it won't be possible to hide facts by historical fabrications, POV pushing/edit warring this time.". You might ask why would a user be interested in such a rare topic? It is because he does not want Armenia to be known as the first Christian state (something generally agreed upon by scholarship today). This goes back to the third century A.D., and the user simply is fighting now battles about 3rd century A.D. and 10th century A.D. (Shahnama). --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 20:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I consider the RfC of Atabek in bad faith as already two neutral users gave their opinion. But I am not going to let the user have a one-sided viewpoint there.--Khodabandeh14 (talk) 00:36, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like the sanctions to apply to User:Sayig1 here: [39] --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 00:50, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning Atabəy

Statement by Atabəy

This frivolous reporting by User:Khodabandeh14 (previously known as User:Nepaheshgar and User:Ali doostzadeh) follows his consecutive WP:CANVASS attempts targeting me:

1. Attempt to bait several contributors, including myself, into another ArbCom case, which is currently being declined; obviously wasting community resources while not exploring other paths towards consensus. This also includes Khodabandeh14's WP:BATTLE and WP:CANVASS attempt to engage User:MarshallBagramyan - [40], User:Takabeg - [41], User:Folantin - [42], User:EdJohnston - [43], User:Lezgistxa - [44], User:Sandstein - [45], User:Vacio - [46], User:Kansas Bear - [47] in an ArbCom case against a group of users with which Khodabandeh14 disagrees.

2. Frivolous reporting to User_talk:EdJohnston, who did not comment on the case.

3. Massive WP:FORUM staged by Khodabandeh14 at User_talk:Dbachmann, not letting other users to speak for themselves, and acting as their spokesperson. Interested arbitrators can follow this thread on Dbachmann's page, to carefully review the rhetoric of Khodabandeh14 and myself.

4. WP:HARASSMENT violation attempting to link me to a real-life identity, using some controversial spam site which published someone's private email online.

At Talk:Anti-Turkism, Talk:Flag of South Azerbaijan and Talk:Azerbaijani people, User:Khodabandeh14 exhibits extremely disruptive WP:BATTLE behavior, refusing to come to any consensus, acting WP:OWN, pushing WP:POV, using WP:PEACOCK wording towards any author he disagrees with, WP:SOAP labeling them as nationalists. Just look at his admission: "I believe the third parties gave a sufficient response. That is why exactly this went to enforcement". This implies that he is using Arbitration Enforcement as a way to intimidate contributor with a threat of sanctions, in order to push his WP:POV in an article.

Assuming good faith, in an attempt to achieve consensus with him, I made a proposal at Talk:Anti-Turkism. But Khodabandeh14 is clearly dismissing any source that he disagrees with, focusing only on his WP:POV or else, the objective to get me sanctioned.

In his prior WP:HARASSMENT, few months ago, User:Khodabandeh14 succeeded by having User:EdJohnston temporarily restrict me from editing pages like Safavid dynasty. Despite EdJohnston's promise to lift this restriction on certain conditions that he suggested, after my appeal and my fulfillment of those conditions, the restriction was forgotten and not lifted, and I did not have time then to follow through the case. But it is obvious that instead of working on articles, and emboldened by such support, User:Khodabandeh14 is now targeting contributors.

I ask AE to remind User:Khodabandeh14 to be more patient and WP:AGF, to constructively participate in talk page discussions, and to leave my identity alone, simply because it is irrelevant to the topics of pages that we edit. I am also expecting AE action in regards to the item 4, which is a severe violation. I mean why is Khodabandeh14 is allowed to go around freely alleging my real-life name? Is this something acceptable in Wikipedia? And I am completely disappointed as to why, being actively involved in all WP:AA2 edit conflicts, User:Khodabandeh14 remains free of any arbitration enforcement and is even allowed to harass contributors?!

P.S. Just an example in item 5 of Khodabandeh14's frivolous reporting, the words I used and he claims as WP:SOAP, come from a scholarly source here: "Turan of the Shahnama are not the historic Turks with which Firdausi anachronistically equates them "

Thanks. Atabəy (talk) 21:43, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@Tznkai, completely agree. I am sorry for having to waste my time here, but I wasn't the one who opened this case, so I have no other option but to respond. I already made a good faith proposal, but unfortunately instead of discussing, Khodabandeh14 still wants to pursue other objectives. Atabəy (talk) 00:07, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to request adding User:Kurdo777 to the sanctions. Thanks.Atabəy (talk) 02:57, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For information of Arbitration Enforcement, at my request at WP:Oversight purged out comments by KHodabandeh14, attempting to link me to a person in violation of WP:HARASSMENT. I kindly ask AE to take actions to prevent repeated violations of the policy by User:Khodabandeh14. The topic disagreements can be resolved on talk pages of the articles, via RfCs, and other currently pursued methods. Thanks. Atabəy (talk) 02:54, 17 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the bad faith comments by User:Khoikhoi about myself. Back in January 2008, he endorsed an unfounded allegation that User:Ehud Lesar was a sockpuppet of User:AdilBaguirov, based on claims made up by a group of WP:BATTLE editors. The allegations were found to be untrue. This one ArbCom case, however, demonstrated the issues with neutrality of User:Khoikhoi when it comes to WP:AA2 cases. So, I suggest that before accusing me in bad faith, in traditional support of User:Khodabandeh14, he produces some facts as to what have I violated to be the subject of this current AE report? Atabəy (talk) 23:27, 17 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Questions about AE decision

@Tznkai, and other supporting administrators, your decision below raises the following question:

Will there be any action taken about WP:HARASSMENT violation by User:Khodabandeh14 or I should take that to a different board? Is this rule enforced by WP:AE?
In May 2011, following my topic ban from Iran-related articles after frivolous report by Khodabandeh14, I was suggested by User:EdJohnston to open an RfC and to follow through with achieving consensus on Talk:Safavid dynasty. I did so, but the ban was not lifted. Can I know the reason?
If I am asked to create a Good Article, but at the same time banned from editing articles, how can do so?

Thanks. Atabəy (talk) 23:12, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, as a last resort, in good faith, I initiated a Request for Comment on Talk:Anti-Turkism regarding the disputed subject. Thanks. Atabəy (talk) 23:43, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My recent inquiry to User:EdJohnston, to clarify why the promise made to lift the topic restriction in May 2011, upon my fulfilling of certain conditions, was never fulfilled. Atabəy (talk) 16:06, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Atabəy

Does this read to anyone else as "You-suck!-No-you-suck!"--Tznkai (talk) 23:23, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Put them both on chairs in the corner for time out? KillerChihuahua^?!?Advice 14:49, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Atabəy

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Directed at both Atabəy and User:Khodabandeh14, based primarily on your behavior here, and a brief perusal of your contributions, it seems that your sole activities on Wikipedia are getting into ideological editing struggles over what I will loosely call Western Asia/Eastern European nationalism and the bloody history thereof, and then getting into personal fights via our dispute resolution mechanisms. This is the very definition of abusing Wikipedia as a battleground. I suppose I could waste all of our times making a more detailed and nuanced assessment and apportion blame in a precise manner, but I do not see benefits outweighing the costs.

Both Atabəy and User:Khodabandeh14 are:

topic banned from all edits in article and article talk space concerning the topic of Eastern European or West Asian nationalism, which includes but is not limited to any nation, ethnicity, people, state, region, person, ideology, entity, work of art, origin of food items, or historical event in Eastern Europe, Northern and Central Asia Division, East Central and South-East Europe Division, Western Asia regions as defined by the United Nations; and
are so banned for six months, starting October 16 00:00 UTC; and
a ban will be suspended upon proof to either myself, a consensus of administrators on AE or a neutral process such as Good Articles, that you can write in a collaborative manner and produce by improvement, well written and well sourced articles

If either of you, or anyone else, in your attempts to get the good behavior suspension disrupts previously stable forums, I will move onto blocks. You have until the ban starts to make further comments, or point me at other editors whose behavior also justifies being included in the topic ban as described above. You may also consider an appeal, and as always, my fellow administrators are encouraged to comment as well.--Tznkai (talk) 18:40, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Khodabandeh14, this is not a proposal, its a sanction. I would also welcome EdJohnston's comments. You might want to get his attention quicklike.--Tznkai (talk) 18:59, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Atabəy, we are not arbitrators, but administrators. You can always go over our heads to the Arbitration Committee if you wish. Second, your behavior in this enforcement request is an independently sufficient ground to show you are violating editing norms. It is your actions, and choices that I am acting on.--Tznkai (talk) 21:44, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Start with and pick an article that doesn't fall within the topic ban.--Tznkai (talk) 23:17, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Khodabandeh14, please notify user:Saygi1 and post the notification here.--Tznkai (talk) 01:44, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Concur with Tzn; good call. KillerChihuahua^?!?Advice 19:26, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The sanction on both editors which Tznkai proposed above sounds good to me. EdJohnston (talk) 20:20, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. User:Khodabandeh14 has a clean block log. This is an area where there is a lot of nationalistic editing and those who oppose it are often targeted by nationalists. I'm not convinced that there is suffficient rationale here to treat both editors the same way. I'm not saying I can't be convinced, just that I'm aware that this is a difficult area in which to work and I wish to be assured that we are not banning a basically constructive editor from it and thereby perhaps creating more problems for those trying to maintain an NPOV position in this area. Dougweller (talk) 06:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
what Dougweller said. Go easy on the topic bans. You can always encourage admins to adopt a zero-tolerance for temporary blocks over disruptive behaviour. Or a 1RR policy or something. For the "well-meaning but agenda-driven hothead" type of editor, it is more than enough to impose a week-long cool-down block every time they get out of line. Strictly speaking I don't see why the arbcom is required for something like this, as it is within the authority of admins. But there you are. This can easily be fixed on the admin level just as long as admins are alerted to the problem and encouraged to issue temporary blocks. Imho the arbcom should limit itself to do just that. --dab (𒁳) 11:47, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Just like Dougweller and dab, I'm opposed to treating Khodabandeh14 the same way as Atabəy. I've been one of the most active administrators in this topical area and I've witnessed the behavior of these two editors first-hand over the years. Atabəy has more than earned his topic ban. To be frank, he should had been permanently banned a long time ago, but the admins have been too soft on him, giving him chance after chance that he's burnt. Khodabandeh14 on the other hand, while displaying signs of compulsive and combative behavior, is generally a constructive editor with good research skills, and who helps keep this area of articles NPOV. He may be a hothead sometimes, but anyone else constantly dealing with nationalist trolls like Atabəy who are always engaged in gaming -- is going to be prone to lose control every now and then. As Dab said, a week-long cool-down break in the form of a ban should be more than enough to deal with Khodabandeh14. Atabəy, I am afraid though, is a lost cause. Khoikhoi 16:51, 17 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've been significantly swamped in meatspace, so have been unable to fully follow up on this. I hope to rectify that within the next 24 hours. In the meantime, I have considered the opposing opinions, and I have found them ultimately unpersuasive. These seem to be appeals to a notion of justice in punishment: equal crime doing equal time. As we have droned on and on, bans are not punishments, but tools for preventing harm. The behavior here justifies the action independently. It is not only outside of our mandate and abilities to Do Justice, a practice best left to philosopher-kings, but ill advised in the AE context, where fine tuning lengths as a sorting function of who is the "worst" encourages even lengthier complaints and game playing behavior. Furthermore, the topic ban has a structural out. If one party is fundamentally a better editor, they will escape the ban much sooner.

I am generally of the mind that administrators should try to achieve consensus when possible, even with discretionary sanctions. However, I also balance those concerns that the need for relatively swift conclusion, and the implicit err-on-the-side-of-action implied in the broad grant of administrator discretion in discretionary sanction remedies. To that extent, I am logging the sanctions, but leaving this thread open for investigation of other users in related dispute, as well as to independently investigate and entertain arguments that Khodabandeh14 has been inappropriately sanctioned. Please bear in mind that Khodabandeh14 has apparently left Wikipedia indefinitely. Perhaps he or she will be back if the topic area is brought to heel.--Tznkai (talk) 06:02, 18 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tznkai has now entered the topic bans of both Khodabandeh14 and Atabəy into the case log. If there is no further discussion of that, this thread should be closed. Here are a couple of comments on the discussion above:

Atabəy remains limited to 1RR/week per a previous sanction which has indefinite duration. I imposed a restriction of Atabəy on May 6 for 3 months from the Safavid Dynasty and all Iranian topics. He has referred to that in his comments above. The Safavid restriction has expired but the 1RR/wk has not.
Khodabandeh14 shows the ability to find and work with reliable sources, and he seemed to take a more scholarly approach to Safavid dynasty than Atabəy. That article was the subject of the May 2011 complaint involving the same two editors. Unfortunately Khodabandeh14's combative approach to disputes and his TL;DR responses tend to be exhausting for anyone trying to work with him. Though my sense is that Atabəy may be heading toward an indefinite restriction while Khodabandeh14 is hopefully going to return to editing in the area, a six month topic ban for both parties is well within Tzkai's discretion. EdJohnston (talk) 23:15, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BesterRus

Warned. T. Canens (talk) 16:37, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning BesterRus

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 23:41, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: BesterRus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Warning of Wikipedia:DIGWUREN#Discretionary sanctions

BesterRus is to be officially put on notice of potential discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

04:23, 18 October 2011 "While organizing SS parades, calling Nazi the liberators and trying to push Russians out of its territory, depriving them of natural human rights. Why yes, your logic is flawless, of course."
21:31, 18 October 2011 "Your leaders and political elite are guiding your people into Nazi ideology that will be followed by a certain demise. And you applaud it."
11:19, 19 October 2011 Accusations that User:Vecrumba harbours Nazi sympathies or has somehow been involved in 'collaboration' (figurative or otherwise) with Nazis.
09:07, 20 October 2011 BesterRus clarifies/redacts his comment to clarify that Vecrumba was not being personally attacked; rather, he meant the Baltic states and their inhabitants collectively.
19:58, 20 October 2011 BesterRus responds to Vecrumba's objection, stating that he was not focusing on Latvians specifically, but rather all Balts, and that Vecrumba is one of 'them'.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Perhaps this is a bit harsh or even bite-y of me, but I felt that it was necessary to bring this here for official review. BesterRus is a relatively new editor who has immediately decided to rush headlong into the hostile environment of Eastern European disputes here (e.g. inserting himself into the current MedCab case regarding Holodomor POV disputes, having never previously participated in any discussion on the topic) with a flamboyant us-versus-them battlefield mentality. He made efforts to backtrack on his initial nationally-motivated attack on Vecrumba, but never retracted it fully. Instead, he shifted his meaning from personal attack to national attack, staying on the "Nazi sympathies" grounds specifically targeted in the Digwuren case. He has shown a willingness to moderate his comments on a strictly personal level, but has remained defiant in preserving the intent on a broader national level. In any case, his mentality is strongly counterproductive to dispute resolution, in which he has decided to participate (with right, don't misunderstand me), and he should be made officially aware of the consequences which will follow should he keep it up. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 23:41, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Done.

Discussion concerning BesterRus

Statement by BesterRus

Comments by others about the request concerning BesterRus

If it were directed towards a single user, it is a personal attack of the worst kind. If it were directed towards entire people of Baltic states, it is the worst kind of battleground mentality. Sanctons are warranted, though inexperience is a mitgating factor. - BorisG (talk) 13:47, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BR tells "we Soviets" [48] and "you, ...". There are no Nazi here, and I am really surprised that some people still openly associate themselves with "Soviets", even though this oppressive (some say "totalitarian") state does not exist. I have serious doubts that BR is a new user. Biophys (talk) 14:47, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no place in Wikipedia for personal attacks such as this, and that goes both ways as well. Having said that, it appears this editor is a new editor, and hence as BorisG notes, inexperience could be a factor here. The placement of the user on notice of discretionary sanctions has been done, and should be enough at this point of time; if they don't get it, they will be banned soon enough. Sanctions are supposed to be used for ongoing disruption. I don't see it at this point in time; they took the advice of User:Greyhood and have created Yuri Nikolayevitch Zhukov. I would suggest that BesterRus take strong heed of the warning, and I would further suggest that they post here at this request affirming that they understand that what they wrote is in essence a personal attack, and such things are not tolerated here on Wikipedia. I would also suggest that they affirm that failure to adhere to expected behavioural policies and guidelines will result in them being blocked and/or banned. This is the way that sanctions should work. Russavia ^{Let's dialogue} 19:20, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The personal nature of BesterRus's attacks and attitude are deja vu all over again compared to prior editors (Jacob Peters, RJ CG,...). My experience in this topic area is that genuinely "new" editors don't immediately insert themselves into topic mediations (Holodomor) and launch into the worst kinds of personal ugliness. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 23:18, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I would certainly expect from a well-intended newbie to come to this page and argue his position or admit his guilt. Only an experienced contributor knows that he would be better off by temporarily disappearing. Biophys (talk) 14:57, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning BesterRus

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

And...this is essentially the definition of unacceptable conduct. I'm going to give a {{uw-sanctions}} warning, but I would not be opposed to standard administrative action as well. NW (Talk) 03:07, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neither would I. The subtleties in what was said and what wasn't said (e.g., there is no plural "you" in English) in my opinion, are irrelevant. Whether on a personal or national level, there is no conceiveable away that invoking and alleging another editor having assisted in the perpetration of the Holocaust can form part of cordially building an encyclopedia. WilliamH (talk) 11:22, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I concur - the original comment by User:BesterRus is unambiguous[49] and is beyond acceptability (William's analysis is spot on - this kind of attitude is 100% incompatible with a collaboartive environment). Sanctions warning is appropriate but I would also support normal proceedure with regard to WP:CIVIL & WP:BATTLE being applied--Cailil ^talk 12:51, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm holding on a block since the user hasn't been editing since this request is filed. Subsequent violations will be unlikely to be looked upon favorably. T. Canens (talk) 16:37, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by The Last Angry Man

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: The Last Angry Man (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – The Last Angry Man (talk) 22:18, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed: Topic ban on all articles which relate to Eastern Europe, (broadly interpreted, and including talk pages and other discussions about those articles) for a period of three months.

Administrator imposing the sanction: Mkativerata (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: [50]

Statement by The Last Angry Man

I am requesting the topic ban be modified so both I and Igny may take part in the mediation currently underway here[51]

Statement by Mkativerata

I simply re-iterate the comments I made at the request for Arbcom amendment here and make the contention that this appeal should be disposed of in the same way as the approach advocated by two arbitrators here. Having said that, I think this issue -- the lack of an exception to a topic ban that isn't itself the subject of an appeal -- has received a rather disproportionate level of attention and I'm certainly not going to die in a ditch over that aspect of my decision. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:31, 22 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@Tznkai: I don't accept the premise of your question. It is not an extraordinary sanction. It is the usual scope of a topic ban. There is no usual exemption for dispute resolution; only for questioning or appealing against the sanction itself. There is no burden of proof (a judicial concept wholly unsuitable for any part of this project). Even if there was I would refer simply to my comment above which in turn refers to my explanation before ArbCom, which establishes the reason behind my application of the usual rule in this case. --Mkativerata (talk) 07:16, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tznkai, I've made this edit, reverting the addition to our banning policy of an exception for which consensus has not been tested. I think you are proposing something very bold and it shouldn't be inserted into a settled policy page without first seeking consensus. The idea that we would ordinarily let topic-banned editors participate in content-related dispute resolution within the topic area is extraordinary. It is a much bigger change than I think you appreciate. I hope that whatever the disposition of this appeal, the uninvolved admins would consider an exception in this case to be very much an exception to the rule. --Mkativerata (talk) 08:16, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Steven Zhang

Part of the reason that I made the request at Amendment as opposed to here is because I knew the likely response it would receive. Our opinions as mediators carry little weight, and I understand the viewpoint that we don't want to overrule the banning administrator and the importance of enforcing arbitration decisions. I also note that most of the administrators that work here (bar perhaps AGK) don't do extensive work in content dispute resolution. Part of the problem that I see is that a temporary topic ban to exclude these editors from mediation actually makes resolving that content dispute harder, not easier. Their topic bans will not last forever, and when they expire the backtracking required will take the mediation in the wrong direction. I ask the admins here to consider the request us mediators made at /Amendment, and consider what the true negatives on allowing them the chance to participate in the mediation. If they step out of line, then their topic ban is re-extended to the mediation case as well. I personally don't think that we are asking for that much. If the mediation takes less than 3 months to resolve, then the issues will only re-arise when these editors topic bans expire. If more, we will have to backtrack. I see very little to lose and a lot to gain, if meaningful resolution is to be achieved then excluding these editors is a step in the wrong direction. I didn't make this request lightly. Please think it over. Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 08:29, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
@NW, it's not so much the fact that mediation cannot proceed without these two, it can. In fact, it could proceed with only 2 of the 9 or so parties, but has less chances of being successful in the long run. Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 19:49, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
@Tim, perhaps leaving it to discretion as to when to reimpose the topic bans could be done. I say this because DR can get a little heated at times, and having a ton of bricks hanging over your head which could land on you with one misstep stifles discussion. Things won't get out of hand, and if they do, we can reimpose the topic ban and reset it. The clause that really should be included is that if either of these parties are topic banned again because of bad conduct within mediation, that their right to question/dispute the outcome of the MedCab is revoked. That way, we are not just kicking the can further down the road if they get topic banned again. Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 19:49, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
@Lothar, I think that's pretty evident given the request up top :) Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 20:24, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
@Cailil, I suppose that should work and is only fair, but note it should also be extended to Igny as well. Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 12:45, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins, I would respectfully ask that the discussion you are engaged in below be continued at a later time and you consider making a decision on the request I have made, as we do wish to get the mediation moving. Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 21:40, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
@Tznaki, I think that is a bad idea. It's the reason I took it to Amendment in the first place. ArbCom sends it to AE, AE sends it to ArbCom. Someone has to take ownership of this. I'm comfortable with T.Canens' proposal. Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 22:19, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
@TZnaki, Oh, pooey. Steven Zhang ^{The clock is ticking....} 22:38, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Russavia

Ummmm, is anyone ignoring the fact that TLAM is 110% a sockpuppet of User:Marknutley? Why on earth is ANY admin considering anything but placing a "Banned for sockpuppetry" notice on the userpage of TLAM.

I support a full lifting of the topic ban on Igny, in no small part due to the fact that if this disruptive sockpuppet wasn't editing (as they shouldn't be), none of the battleground would have existed in the first place.

But lifting anything for TLAM is totally reprehensible!!! Russavia ^{Let's dialogue} 23:25, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Lothar von Richthofen

I don't think the current sanctions should be lifted. The mediation does not hinge on either editor's participation, and while it certainly would be very nice if they could participate, sanctions are sanctions. Well-deserved ones on both sides, at that. Not much more to say.

On a side note, Russavia's contention that there would be no battleground here without TLAM and that Igny is innocent of being a combative you-know-what would be knee-slappingly hilarious if it was not made in all seriousness. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 23:58, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I feel it should be made clear that this thread is not discussing a full lifting of sanctions, but rather a single modification to allow the users to participate in the Holodomor dispute resolution. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 19:57, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Vecrumba

While I personally do not believe the sanctions against TLAM are justified, nor, having dealt with both TLAM and Marknutley, do I personally believe TLAM is anyone's sockpuppet, I suggest we all move on. Otherwise this will become yet another WP:BATTLEGROUND WP:SOAPBOX to berate admins to punish one editor while exonerating another when circumstances of behavior, objectively, don't support such contentions. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 16:24, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by TransporterMan

[This is just a slight reworking and abbreviation of what I said at the amendment request]

In some ways, the decision on this request goes to the positive and negative reasons for why DR exists and why it is here: to benefit Wikipedia by settling disputes, hopefully positively through consensus, but sometimes negatively by just getting them settled to stop the disruption. If we have editors who feel so strongly about this that they're just going to wait out their topic bans and start changing the article again, then the mediation is a waste of time without them. Getting them in and allowing them to help craft the solution at least potentially avoids that result. I therefore support the idea of allowing an exception to the topic ban for The Last Angry Man. The solutions to this request are becoming too complicated with a montoring sysop and double or nothing sanctions. The sanctions in question are a "voluntary" topic ban, in the sense that he has not been blocked and is capable of editing anywhere he pleases to do so. No one is officially or semi-officially monitoring TLAM on that ban at the present time. Various eyes could be watching, of course, but should he violate the ban it would far more likely that someone would just happen to have to come along, just happen to notice the violation, and choose to report it to AE. All we are requesting here is that the topic ban be relaxed for MedCab and that Steven (or perhaps any two of the three mediators if you do not want to just let one do it) be given the right to reinstitute the full breadth of the ban should TLAM's behavior deteriorate in any of those venues to the point the mediators feel that it is interfering with the mediation process, with the only needed action being:

To relax: A note on TLAM's talk page by Mkativerata or an ArbCom member or clerk setting the parameters of the relaxation and the mediator(s) right to reinstitue it, along with a corresponding note at Digwuren's Log of blocks and bans, and
To reinstiute: The mediator(s) leaving a note reinstituting it on TLAM's talk page and at the Diguren log.

A strict "one bad word and he's gone" standard, especially (but not only) one which either is being continuously scrutinized or second-guessed by parties outside the mediation or which results in a longer ban is inimical to the mediation process. Indeed, my feeling is that the only consequence of behaving badly in the mediation ought to be the risk that he will be excluded from it, not that he will suffer expanded or extended blocks or bans because of it. (The flip side of this, however, should be that any decision of the mediator(s) to reinstate the full breadth of the topic ban should not be appealable: the relaxation should be considered to be an act of grace entirely for the benefit of the mediation and thus the encyclopedia, and not to the slightest degree for TLAM's personal right or interest, which can be revoked without cause or explanation at any time it appears that the encyclopedia is not receiving the desired benefit.) Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:53, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by The Last Angry Man

Result of the appeal by The Last Angry Man

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

In general, I am in favor of deferring to the original decision of the acting administrator in AE cases, unless I think that it was simply unreasonable. Although I don't know if I would have done the same thing, it was certainly within the bounds of administrator discretion, and therefore I would decline this appeal. NW (Talk) 02:20, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Decline. We should not be in the business of micromanaging discretionary sanctions. T. Canens (talk) 05:56, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would normally not be in favor of micromanaging the sanction, but Steven Zhang has been very insistent that this mediation needs to proceed now. I would not be opposed to lifting it with regards to the mediation only, and allow him or any other administrator to reimpose the full topic ban at their own discretion. NW (Talk) 20:54, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Someone being "very insistent" that a sanction has to be modified in a particular way is not a good reason to depart from the usual practice. If we are to depart from the general rule and fine-tune Mkativerata's sanction - over his objection - we need to draw a principled distinction between this case and other cases so that we would not open the floodgate to "very insistent" appeals asking us to fine-tune every discretionary sanction. T. Canens (talk) 23:02, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's not the fact that any old editor is being very insistent, but rather it's the belief of the mediator that this mediation cannot continue without these two. I'm not sure I entirely agree with Steve, but if he is willing to oversee the issue himself, then I wouldn't mind doing it for a trial run. NW (Talk) 14:23, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose we can say that the fact that an experienced and entirely uninvolved mediator requested a change can be an extraordinary circumstance that justifies our departure from the usual practice. Very well, I'll not object to a trial run, with the caveat that any disruption will result in the ban being reinstated in full, reset, and doubled in duration (i.e., 6 months from the date of reinstatement). T. Canens (talk) 16:07, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The issue should not be whether to override the sanction, but whether we can convince Mkativerata to modify it voluntarily. Also, I believe that the burden of proof for extraordinary sanctions (cutting off genuine attempts at dispute resolution) should be on the enacting admin. So, Mkativerata, why is it necessary to keep TLAM out of a mediation?--Tznkai (talk) 21:51, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Mkativerata re Tznkai's above comment. A topic ban is not an "extraordinary sanction" and there is not an additional burden of proof (beyond the comments already made by Mkativerata) on sysops enforcing discretionary sanctions here - these sanctions are called discretionary becuase they are at the sysop's discretion. (See here[52] what two arbitrators' views on it are.) Furthermore making changes to policy[53] that have no consensus (and the exceptions that you added to eth page, and others that were mentioned on the talk page[54] had/has no consensus - clear consensus is required, and must be sought, for such a drastic change in policy) and then coming here apparently to test them out is, in the very least, unfair to both the sysop who enforced the sanction and the editor appealling it.
Steven has requested an exception to normal process he is not arguing that the sanctions were unjustified per se rather that from his mediation perspective dispute resolution would beenfit from TLAM & Igny being allowed to take part in the mediation, which is a break from usual practice.
On the matter of a trial run of allowing TLAM & Igny to participate I would not object only as long as T. Canens caveats are followed (ie if misbehaviour occurs bans are reset and doubled)--Cailil ^talk 12:33, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@TransporterMan: my logic for requiring T. Canens caveat (reset and double length of the topioc ban if misbehaviour occurs at the mediation) is this: Igny and TLAM have already done enough to get a 3 month ban. Further disruption (if it were to occur) would show contempt for Steven who requested this in good faith, those of us willing to offer them this relaxation in light of Steven's request, and for the general point of wikipedia's AGF policy & its dispute resolution processes. If that happened it would demonstrate to the community that this person 'hasn't got the message' and that even after Mkativerata's enforcement of the ArbCom ruling more remedies are required to prevent further disruption to WP. This isn't actually all that of a novel approach - when a user breaches a topic ban seriously this kind of sanction may occur, and when ArbCom unbans a user they may be placed on this kind of probation for a set length of time--Cailil ^talk 16:59, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Responding to Mkativerata and Cailill, a topic ban is not extraordinary, banning someone from a topic including dispute resolution is. As we can get into detail on the banning policy talk page, my change isn't as significant as you might think as the default has always included the undefined term "Legitimate and necessary." Regardless of the wording issues, it is extraordinary for administrators to cut off genuine attempts at resolving a dispute. It is a standard reason to unblock, unban, or actually go ahead and bend the rules. The goal of Wikipedia policies generally is not to prevent disruption. (If it was, we'd site-ban a lot more than we do) Rather, minimizing disruption is a means to better resolving disputes, which in turn is itself a means to creating actual article content. Removing editors does not in and of itself make Wikipedia better. It just makes our lives, the admins who patrol AE, marginally less chaotic. That last bit is not a worthy goal.

All that having been said, I'm open to any number of good justifications for preventing someone from participating in mediation, formal or otherwise. Nearly all of them start with a variation of "will simply use mediation to disrupt and antagonize" and almost none of them start with "waste of time." It is, after all, someone else's time to waste.--Tznkai (talk) 18:51, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(I'll comment here now just for ease of reading as we're way outside the scope of this appeal). They're your own views. They may well be valid. But they're not the community's. They shouldn't apply in this venue. Banning someone from topic-related dispute resolution is not extraordinary at all. It is done every day of the week here, being within the ordinary scope of a topic ban. --Mkativerata (talk) 18:53, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can't argue for discretion on the one hand, and ignore my views (asserted as out of step with the community) on the other. Discretionary sanctions bypass measuring what the community's view is. That is how they work. AE has also given wide berth to other administrators in exercising their discretion, which is why I am not, and most other admins here are not interested in overriding your decision willy nilly, regardless of whether we would have made the same decision in your shoes. I don't think its strange to say that, implicit in that paired conduct, that we expect AE admins, in exercising their discretion, to explain their reasons.

Your explanation is thin. You clearly think that they would be poor mediation participants. "We shouldn't overburden the admin corps more by allowing two users topic-banned for largely behavioural reasons to participate in non-binding dispute resolution under the supervision of a volunteer administrator." seems self contradictory, since allowing an admin to volunteer places zero additional burden on the admin corps. Instead, it would appear you are using your discretion to foreclose another administrator from using theirs.--Tznkai (talk) 19:12, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are the one asked the sanctioning admin to meet a burden of proof unfounded in policy. You are the one imposing your (out of step) standards on others. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:19, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase "legitimate and necessary dispute resolution" as an exception to a topic ban, as far as I remember, has always been construed narrowly to include only DR directly involving the ban, whether a clarification/amendment/appeal from the ban, or a request to enforce an interaction ban. It has been formally codified since the limited bans were written into the ban policy in August 2010. If you believe that topic bans should not include content DR, it's obviously your choice, and you can of course do it with bans that you hand out. That hardly means that following a practice that is written in policy for over a year is somehow "extraordinary". It simply is not. T. Canens (talk) 19:32, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And since it isn't "extraordinary" it need not be explained? (and I still remember when topic bans were article only by default, which was a fun mess) That is really what I'm after here, some sort of reason why one administrator's decision should bar another volunteer from spending their time, as they wish, trying to get some sort of mediation going? We can go round and round the legalisms and the policy interpretation, but that isn't going to be a good answer for why a third party admin doesn't get to at least try to fix things.--Tznkai (talk) 19:48, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There may be no good answer to the difference of opinion between Mkativerata and others that TLAM could usefully participate in a mediation. It helps get clarity of outcome from this board if a single admin does the original closure and gets to decide on the fine print of the sanction. None of us has persuaded Mkativerata to change his mind. I add my vote to those who want to decline TLAM's request. He can probably file a regular Arbitration Enforcement Appeal if he wants the whole topic ban reconsidered. I agree with T. Canens that the phrase 'legitimate and necessary dispute resolution' should be confined to the sense in which Arbcom generally uses it. EdJohnston (talk) 21:58, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think the end result here will to be to bounce back to ArbCom with AE deciding not to overturn.--Tznkai (talk) 22:15, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The way I understand it, we have the following chain of events: Mkativerata makes a sanction in an AE thread, an appeal is filed with ArbCom, ArbCom bounces it back to AE as a premature appeal, appeal is made here, and the most likely decision is one to abstain from overturning. TLAM (or others, I guess) has every right to ask ArbCom to overrule Mkativerata's decision at all points. AE admins on the other hand, do not, absent an actual consensus, which we do not have.--Tznkai (talk) 22:30, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

PCPP

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning PCPP

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: —Zujine|talk 07:29, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: PCPP (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Indefinite Wikipedia:TBAN#Topic_ban on Falungong

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

PCPP has an extensive history of problematic editing, most of which appears on Falungong pages, though he occasionally displays similar tendencies on other pages related to China. His point of view is distinctly non-neutral, and he seeks ever to try to diminish criticisms of the Communist Party of China, to highlight criticisms of Falungong, and delete content that depicts the suppression of Falungong by the Communist Party. Everyone has a point of view, of course, but PCPP pursues his in a uniquely disruptive and tendentious way characterised by edit waring, constant reverting and deletion of content without discussion, misleading edit summaries, and personal attacks against those who disagree with him. His user talk page is a testament to this pattern of disruptive editing; it is riddled with cease and desist requests, warnings, blocks, and temporary topic bans for his editing on Falungong-related pages. He was subject to a four-month topic ban beginning February of this year (the arbitrary request is here[55]). After a period of minimal activity, he recently returned to editing Falungong in a disruptive manner. Given his extensive history of tendentious editing, which has been documented and described at length before, I will only present evidence here of his behaviour since his last topic ban, presented in chronological order:

From May, 2011: [56] [57] PCPP twice removes sourced content from the page on the 2010 World Expo in Shanghai. The content in question consisted of a very short paragraph explaining the alleged use of coercion to boost attendance numbers, cited to the New York Times. Moreover, the editor who added it had started a talk page discussion before adding the content, and explicitly asked in his edit summary that anyone who disagreed with its inclusion should discuss it on the talk page. PCPP failed to discuss the matter, and reverted it twice. Only after being asked on his user page to discuss did he chime in (not very convincingly, in my opinion), and accuse the other editor of “spreading misinformation” [58]. The other editor seemed to have given up.

September 2011: [59] In a series of edits, PCPP adds a rather large sum of content and quotes from Falungong critics, including marginal and partisan ones, and deletes information referenced to mainstream scholars on Falungong and other reliable sources. I wrote a summary of just some of these edits here[60]. In short, among the edits I summarised, PCPP misused a quotation from a reliable source, deleted three other reliable sources, inexplicably deleted a comparison of Falungong's beliefs to Buddhism, added a sensationalised paraphrasing of Falungong beliefs, highlighted the opinions of fringe critics of the group, and deleted an explanation of the Chinese government's use of the term "cult" (xiejiao) in reference to Falungong. He says nothing about any of these edits on the talk page.

I have not carefully parsed the other edits that he made in September, but from a glance they are of a similar nature. This one[61] is instructive. It deals with a paragraph about how, in 2009, judges in Argentina and Spain ruled to indict top Chinese leaders on charges of genocide and crimes against humanity for the persecution of Falungong. With an edit summary that states he is "summarising the response section," PCPP removed all references to genocide in the rulings. For the record, one judge described the persecution as a "genocidal strategy," and the other said that the suppression has the characteristics of a genocide. It's worth noting that PCPP was previously sanctioned for edit warring over Falungong's inclusion as a genocide/alleged genocide at List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll.

Every editor has a point of view, but most at least strive to make neutral edits, to achieve things through consensus, and engage in discussions when they find that they are in disagreement over their contributions. PCPP does not do this, and his edits consistently serve to advance a partisan perspective. What is more troubling, however, is that PCPP pursues his partisan interests unilaterally, always with minimal discussion, and with remarkable aggression toward other editors and normal editing processes. In this case, he has not allowed any other editor to edit the page; no matter how seemingly innocuous or minor, he has reverted every change.

Following the series of edits in September, editor Olaf Stephanos partially undid some of PCPP's changes to Falun Gong, adding in additional content in the process. Olaf left a note on the talk page briefly explaining his edits, at which point another editor began to engage him in discussion on one of the changes, and he responded with more elaboration. I then chimed in expressing agreement with some of Olaf's concerns and raised additional questions.

PCPP arrives and reverts the page to the last version he last edited in September.[62]. He does not participate in the talk page discussion that was ongoing.

Editor Homunculus reverted PCPP, and left a note on the talk page explaining why.

PCPP reverts again[63], accusing Homunculus of "POV pushing" in the edit summary.

Homunculus reverts a second time, asking again in his edit summary that PCPP participate in the talk page discussion before further reversions.

PCPP reverts for a third time[64]

At this point PCPP and Homunculus are discussing on the talk page. Homunculus asks PCPP to address the concerns that other editors raised regarding his changes to the page. PCPP addresses only one of these concerns very tersely, and accuses Homunculus of "trying to paint a false picture." PCPP also accuses Olaf Stephanos of being a "known [Falungong] activist". The conversation can be seen here.[65]

For the benefit of those watching the discussion, I then spent a good deal of time parsing through the changes that PCPP made to the "controversies" section of the page (again, it's here[66]) Finding that they were, on a whole, not very productive and some changes were rather inexplicable, I asked PCPP to account for these changes. I left a note on his talk page directing him to the discussion. I also pointed out that I found his comments towards other editors to be inappropriate, and asked him to stick to discussions of content rather than making accusations of bias or ad hominem attacks (particularly on the basis of other editors' religion, as in the case of Olaf).

PCPP tells me to "Go away" on his talk page and defends his personal attack against Olaf.[67]

PCPP then responds on the Falungong talk page to each of the points I raised. Failing to thread his post (annoying), he also fails to address the substance of the concerns (sometimes presenting straw man arguments or attempting to change the subject), ignores some entirely, and responds to one with a sardonic "Wow, I removed an extra word! Alert the presses!" He concludes his explanation by saying that his repeated reversions were merely "defending my right to edit Wikipedia."[68]

At last, PCPP made two minor changes at the request of another editor. As several problems remained, I proposed a middle-road solution for resolving this dispute on the talk page, and made some edits to the page accordingly. I preserved valuable information and sources that had been added, and also contributed some new sources that were representative of the issues, made some rearrangements to the order (but not substance) of some content, and removed a disputed quote. I assumed this edit would be pretty non-controversial, and then…

PCPP reverts for the fourth time, though a series of eight consecutive edits.[69][70][71][72][73][74][75][76] Once again, he does not discuss his changes on the talk page. And once again, his changes serve to advance the views of the Falungong's critics, and to diminish the views of neutral experts on Falungong religion (particularly with respect to the representations of Falungong's organisation). Other edits that he made here seem like reversions for the sake of it, because evidently, he is the only person who may edit the page.

When PCPP does engage in the talk page to account for his rather substantial changes, he leaves only a terse note accusing me of deception.[77]

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This is PCPP's first foray back into editing Falungong articles since his last topic ban. The above collection of evidence should, in my view be more than enough to justify an indefinite topic ban (4 reverts, almost no discussion, no substantive response to legitimate questions, and plenty of accusations of bad faith and personal attacks). But just in case anyone believes it is insufficient, I would remind those reviewing the case that he has an extensive history of disruptive editing. After his last topic ban he should have mended his ways, yet this most recent exchange demonstrates that his propensity for tendentious, aggressive editing, and his penchant for repeated reversions with little or no discussion has not been rectified. His MO has changed slightly; where previously he would only delete content, this time around he has taken to a combination of deletion things he doesn't like and adding other material to advance his POV. Yet his approach to the community, to other users, his disregard for good faith discussion, and his willingness to edit war and accuse others are unchanged. As sanctions are intended to be preventative, and PCPP has not changes his editing habits, it can only be expected that he will continue editing in the disruptive manner described here. I would also note that, before his return, the Falungong article was stable, and the involved editors had been able to work together with minimal conflict to greatly improve it. PCPP's presence marked the return of incivility, and leads to a toxic environment where no consensus is possible, and no other editors may contribute to the page without being summarily reverted by PCPP. I would recommend a permanent topic ban, possibly extending to a community-wide ban.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[78]

Discussion concerning PCPP

Statement by PCPP

I find this particular AE request completely unwarranted and in bad faith. Fact is, from February of this year until October, I have not even touched once Falun Gong related article. In the few disputes that I had, I actively engaged with the users on the talk page with civilty, such as a nationalistic content dispute on the China-Korea relations article [79] and asked for admin advise on guidelines referring to article content [80].

To address Zujine's allegations:

1)I only edited the Expo 2010 article twice, with many weeks in between. Homunculus insisted in adding critical information regarding attendence in the main article, when in fact a separate article already exist for the very purpose, with the very same information, as several other editors had pointed out.

2)Everything I added to the FLG article in September were sourced to reliable sources, and a good faith attempt to introduce alternate perspectives. I have not "deleted information related to mainstream scholars", as Zujine claimed. The previous version's controversy section frankly does not follow article guidelines, where FLG's controversies were portrayed as being manufactured by the PRC government, ie an opening critical statement gets dismissed with two supportive statements. I rewrote the section so that the particular controversy gets noted, and highlighted both perspectives without favoring one or another, as any "controversy" section should.

I find Zujine's so called "breakdown" [81] of my edits rather hostile in nature. He makes a big deal over the fact that I summarized a sentence from "mainstream religions such as Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism" to "mainstream religions such as Christianity and Islam". Furthermore, in regards to a statement sourced to the New York Times, he keeps claiming that the author's statements are "imflamatory" while demanding primary evidence linking to FLG lectures, which clearly violates original research policies.

3)For that particular edit, I simply summarized the previous paragraphs, replaced the FLG source with a mainstream report, and drew attention to the fact these lawsuits are, as admitted by FLG themselves, to be largely symbolic and that no arrests are likely to be made. Furthermore, going by the original article, User:Homunculus was warned [82] for misintepreting the source article and stating that the Chinese officials were "found guilty", when they were simply indicted.

4)In contray to Zujine's claims, Olaf's October 17 revert [83] restored the original "controversy" section, removing everything I added, and did not "add in additional content", as Zujine claims. In the talk page, he made several ad hominem attacks on the author, claiming that he's "very partisan" and a "mouthpiece for the CCP" [84]. Later, he also tried to introduce personal anecdotes as a practitioner as "evidence" [85].

5)As for Homunculus, he added fuel to the fire by reverting two additional times [86][87]. In the talk page, he accused me of violating WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE, and "removing content" [88], despite the fact that this article isn't coved by WP:BLP, and my additions were the ones being removed. In my opinion, he believes that his reverts are justified as "right" reverts , while mine are "wrong" reverts, and even asked an admin to restore the page to his "right" version [89]

6)I simply referred to Olaf as a "known activist" and a valid COI concern, which is based on his previous case [90], in which he was banned for 6 months and the closing admin noted "He also rather often indicates that he is a practicioner of the movement, indicating a very realistic WP:COI concern".

7)Zujine's October 23 edits were actually a partial revert, [91], in which he restored numerous paragraphs in the controversy section to the previous version, and deleted the NYT article while a discussion was going on.

I find Zujine and Homunculus's behavior hard to work with, especially their partisan attitudes in this very request accusing me of trying to "diminish criticisms of the Communist Party of China." The fact is, I have tried to engage in discussions under tremendous stress, and even tried to introduce some outside opinions via RFC. I feel that no sufficient consensus has been demonstrated due to the lack of editors.

Going by the numerous issues in the past, the Falun Gong articles are highly controversial, and almost devoid of neutrality despite numerous attempts in the past at mediation. I do not enjoy editing these articles at all, and would have gladly left upon even the smallest editorial oversight. I edit these article on a vain but good faith attempt to improve its neutrality issues and provide a balanced POV. However I feel that these Zujine and Homunculus are deliberate hounding me based on my editing history on the Falun Gong pages, showing up in every dispute I've had in the past year and taking the opposite POV, and willingly engaging in reverts wars, based on the perspective that they're "right" and I'm "wrong", and that somehow I'm trying to advance the causes of the CCP. Almost all the time I find that my edits getting merciless reverted by these two, causing me endless distress in real life. I do not enjoy in edit warring, but am simply defending my right to edit the FLG articles without these two showing up every moment and undoing everything.--PCPP (talk) 18:11, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning PCPP

Homunculus

I participated in the previous AE against the user, and as nothing has changed, I am pasting my previous comment below my assessment of the current situation. I think it summarizes my feelings well. With respect to recent events, in particular, I would like to draw attention to the following:

In case it was going to affect the results of this case, when I reverted PCPP's unilateral changes to the page here[92], I left a note on the talk page indicating my reasoning, and suggested that some of the content PCPP had included material may have violated WP:BLP, which would justify a summary revert. In fact I had misread the source of a guideline another editor had posted as evidence of why not to include some of PCPP's content. The guideline was from actually from WP:RS, as I later realized, and not from WP:BLP (although it included mention of the sensitivity of accurately quoting living persons). Had the policy been WP:BLP, I understand that any number of reverts to PCPP would have been justified, but this not being the case, I ask observers to disregard that part of my talk page comment.
I would like to draw attention to the fact that the three editors who reverted or partially reverted PCPP all did so with an explanation on the talk page. The other two editors (other than myself, that is), did not engage in wholesale reverts but selective ones, and Zujine in particular was attempting to find an agreeable resolution that retained worthwhile sources added by PCPP. By contrast, PCPP has effectively changed the page five times (including his edits in September), and never once voluntarily participated in talk page discussion to explain these edits in good faith.
I would note as well that PCPP has a tendency to attempt to distract from legitimate discussions of content with accusations of bad faith sometimes escalating to personal attacks, attempts to portray other editors as biased, and when pressed, specious or straw man arguments to justify his page contributions.
Finally, a note that (aside from vandals and sockpuppets) I do not think I have encountered other editors on Wikipedia with whom I have been unable to reach a quiet or even begrudging resolution, if not a consensus. On Falun Gong pages in particular, for the last year or so I have found the climate to be generally civil and constructive when PCPP is not around. When he is around, the pages become a battle ground that is extremely unpleasant to work in. There is an unfortunate feature that has characterized Falun Gong pages in the past (dating back to before I was around). That is, the propensity to group editors into either pro- or anti-Falun Gong, as judged by which side of an imagined "middle ground" position they fall on, and to then seek to discredit their contributions on the basis of a perceived bias (the middle ground, as judged by Wikipedia editors like PCPP, is not neutral at all, but instead is the median point between scholarly and NGO consensus on Falun Gong and the perspective of the Communist Party). If these pages are to continue being civil, reasonable environments, it is necessary to judge the substance of edits, not the suspected bias of the people making them. PCPP has accused every editor with whom he disagrees with possession of a pro-Falun Gong bias, because he is unable to engage in substantial conversation. It is worth noting that none of the editors involved here have reciprocated these accusations of bad faith, and have consistently attempted to engage with content.

Here are my comments from the previous AE case:

Personally I find all this very unsavory. But I am involved, so I should probably speak up. In my various interactions with PCPP, I have tried to hold my tongue and avoid accusations of bad faith. This is not because I have the slightest regard for this individual, though, or for his intentions. I have encountered this editor on several articles related to either Communist Party history or Falun Gong, and have found him to be exclusively concerned with massaging the image of the Communist Party and maligning Falun Gong, in spite of any facts that may stand in the way. I cannot recall one instance in which he contributed in a productive way, let alone an objective way, to these articles. He mainly deletes content, and when challenged, he is typically unable to offer a reasonable defense for doing so. He does make numerous weak attempts to justify his edits, consuming much time; his recent reverts on List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll is a good example of how he’ll delete with one excuse, and when it is shot down, he will simply embrace another justification for deletion, and another, and another... By the end, he is arguing that Falun Gong should not be on a list of genocides because the National Endowment for Democracy is an American propaganda agency, or because David Ownby has not said it is a genocide (even though Ownby states that he is not an expert on the human rights issues related to Falun Gong, but instead on the religious and historical context surrounding it). It's exhausting. As inhumane as it may be, my problem is not with this editor’s ideological bias per se. Nor do I care that he has recently taken to accusing me of bad faith. My problem is with the means he uses to advance his point of view, which include blanket and repeated reversions without discussion, editing against consensus, leveling personal attacks against editors who disagree with his aggressive behavior, misrepresenting sources, cloaking controversial edits under innocuous edit summaries, and deleting anything that does not comport with his view of the world. I can imagine that cognitive dissonance is a difficult thing to live with. It’s hard to accept that Mao Zedong is not a saint, and that innocent people are victimized by the Communist Party. But I would recommend that the best way to cope is to try accepting facts, rather than deleting them from wikipedia in a vain and annoying attempt to shape the world to accord with one’s personal beliefs. Asdfg was concerned that in filing this request for arbitration, PCPP would attempt to distract from his own behavior by drawing attention to Asdfg’s history. I was prepared to file this request in his stead, because I do not want the conversation to be derailed. I have wasted enough time unpacking the specious arguments that PCPP offers to support his indefensible position on these topics. Homunculus (duihua) 22:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

A final note: I just saw PCPP's statement. I don't have time to dissect it, but would exhort observers to read the relevant discussions in full; it is time-consuming, but can be more instructive than referring to a list of diffs. Real life awaits. Homunculus (duihua) 18:19, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A response to Quigley: Reiterating what I said above, I would again ask that administrators reviewing this case carefully read the discussions that have been highlighted, rather than only the summaries given, as the latter may be somewhat misleading. In the instance of PCPP's edits to the 2010 Shanghai Expo, Quigley writes that I alone argued for the inclusion of the sentence on attendance numbers. This was not the case; the only uninvolved editor who weighed in during that RfC (that is, the only person with no history of editing pages related to the PRC) actually agreed with me, not PCPP, as Quigley claimed. Ultimately I gave up, and the page remains a POV fork to this day. But that content dispute is not what's at issue here; the problem with PCPP's behavior in that case was that I started a talk page discussions explaining the decision to include the content and asking those who disagree to discuss it. PCPP reverted twice before participating in those discussions, only chiming in after I asked him to on his talk page. As to Quigley's suggestion that PCPP is not a unilateral editor and that he does not break consensus, I would refer back to the last AE that was brought against him, in which he was found to repeatedly revert content against consensus. The fact that his talk page is littered with warnings and sanctions is not evidence that he is being martyred; it is evidence that he has a serious problem editing Falun Gong pages. His behavior in this case speaks for itself. PCPP makes extensive changes to a previously stable page, and does not discuss it. When another editor raises concerns and undoes some of his changes, PCPP reverts and does not discuss it. When I ask for discussion and revert back, PCPP reverts again without discussion. When Zujine tries to achieve a middle ground and explains his reasons for doing so, PCPP reverts again, making even more changes, and does not discuss them. When he is pressed for explanations, he accuses other editors of malice, and when he is asked to refrain from personal attacks, he responds with "go away." This is what makes his behavior tendentious—it's not simply that he edits while discussions are ongoing.Homunculus (duihua) 03:55, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Olaf Stephanos

I have been involved with these pages on and off for the past 5-6 years. During this period of time, the pages have undergone huge changes, and their balance has been periodically altered by people who have sought to advance their own ideological agenda. Having a post-graduate background in cultural studies and comparative religion, I have been pleased with many editors' willingness to search for highest quality sources and engage in scrutinous, policy-compliant discussion on the talk page. Unfortunately, PCPP has not been one of these editors. Ever since he appeared a few years ago, his struggle to whitewash the Communist Party's human rights violations and create a tabloid style "exposé" of Falun Gong has been highly disconcerting for a large number of Wikipedians. The active group of editors has varied over the years, but no matter who they have been, the people who stand in favour of a scholarly, well-sourced and encyclopaedic article have been frustrated by PCPP's ideological edit warring, lack of reasoning, overall inability to discuss his modifications, and outright dismissal of sound arguments. The above editors (Homunculus and Zujine) were not at all involved in the fierce debates and arbitration cases that I went through several years ago, but I am in no way surprised that they seem to have formed an equally negative impression of PCPP and his misdeeds. Considering that PCPP has already been topic banned for several months and has apparently not learned his lessons, I leave it up to the arbitrators to decide whether he is capable of editing this group of articles at all. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 14:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will briefly comment on how OhConfucius seeks to discredit me below. Firstly, the articles in their present state do not contain a single sentence added by me. Secondly, I have always, always insisted on scholarly sources, preferably peer-reviewed journals. I don't remember ever adding anything from Clearwisdom or the Epoch Times; correct me if I'm wrong. Thirdly, I have a degree of academic competence in this area, and that certainly qualifies me as someone who can and should take part in editing these articles. Fourthly, my discussions on the talk page have been scrutinous and intelligent, and I have apologized for and refrained from the sarcasm and occasional incivility that lead into my ban more than two years ago. My main interest is in editing Falun Gong related pages on this encyclopedia, but I hope you can recognize that a spiritual believer is capable of making valuable contributions to pages on their religion, just as a Chinese person has unique insight in and may exclusively concern themselves in editing pages related to China. I hope that my personal beliefs will not be used as an ad hominem means of discrediting me, as that would seem to be in contravention with WP:NPA. I have not edit warred or engaged in disruptive behaviour, and my discourse is academic. Fifthly, this arbitration enforcement case is not about me. It has been initiated by editors who are not Falun Gong practitioners and were not involved in our previous grudges. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 15:47, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I find your attitude towards me rather condescending. My edits alone shows that they're not simply limited FLG articles, as you claim, and in no way had try to "whitewash" the CCP nor "expose" FLG. Furthermore, presenting yourself as a having "degree" means little as far edits are concerned, considering the anonmity of the internet and the Essjay scandal.--PCPP (talk) 18:21, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ohconfucius

Olaf lacks all credibility. He is a self-admitted Falun Gong practitioner who constantly wikilawyers for acceptability of sources favourable to the FLG cause, and tries to disqualify or otherwise remove those that are even remotely critical, yet he has the temerity to say he stands "in favour of a scholarly, well-sourced and encyclopaedic article", and accuse PCCP of attempting to "advance their own ideological agenda". Olaf himself is a strong advocate for Falun Gong, and one of the movement's most durable contributors; he seems incapable of accepting any position about Falun Gong other than what emanates from Clearwisdom or Epoch Times. An examination of his contributions history shows Olav is solely interested in Falun Gong articles. Over the years, he has aided and abetted other radicals such as Dilip rajeev (talk · contribs) and asdfg12345 (talk · contribs) in turning the family of articles into glossy brochures for the movement. Olaf has not made any demonstrable attempt at integrating or interacting with the community at large, except at Arbcom-related venues, where he himself has been topic-banned for six months. His comments should be looked at in context. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 15:18, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hope you don't mind my commenting on your comment here, and I also hope that this does not distract further from the issue at hand, which is PCPP's disruptive behaviour. Both you and PCPP have attempted to use Olaf's "self-admitted Falun Gong practitioner" status to discredit him. PCPP takes this a step further, claiming that Olaf is a self-declared Falungong activist (I have not seen Olaf claim to be an activist. Maybe PCPP can direct me to it?). As I pointed out to PCPP before[93], this might be construed as a personal attack ("using someone's affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views"). I think it's a fine line. In my view, it is not necessarily a COI for an editor belonging to a particular religious group to edit articles on their religion, as long as they strive for neutrality, adhere to policy, and are able to work collaboratively; in fact, it seems religious adherents are encouraged to participate to ensure the articles on their respective religions are fair. (The same holds for people of a given ethnicity, nationality, etc.) Olaf on his user page appears to declare that he practices Falungong. Whether or not you think this is a potential conflict of interest, WP:COI states that "When someone voluntarily discloses a conflict of interest, other editors should always assume the editor is trying to do the right thing. Do not use a voluntarily disclosed conflict of interest as a weapon against the editor." Doing so contributes to incivility on these pages, and takes us away from the task of improving them. This is as much directed to you as PCPP. Thanks. —Zujine|talk 16:58, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I might refer you to Olaf's own AE case [94]. The closing admin noted He also rather often indicates that he is a practicioner of the movement, indicating a very realistic WP:COI concern--PCPP (talk) 17:18, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@Zujine: In reality, I am much happier dealing with people who lay their cards on the table, rather than those who do so whilst under some hidden agenda. I did not "attempt to use Olaf's 'self-admitted Falun Gong practitioner' status to discredit him"; his own actions do that in sufficient measure. I was merely pointing out the facts, so that the admins don't take Olaf's comments at face value. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 02:27, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@Olaf: Please read my comment again. I never accused you of any of those specific points you eagerly rushed to defend yourself against. You continue to lawyer, skate, and obfuscate. Were I in your shoes, I too would probably consider PCPP a thorn in my side, and wish to be rid of him so that I could further my agenda of spreading "Truthfulness, Compassion, and Forbearance" [sic]. I would also probably harbour a silent admiration of his tenacity which must equal that of the most resilient FLG advocate who has ever passed through Wikipedia, although I might never admit it. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 09:05, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Of course you didn't. Just to get things right: the closing admin had nothing to say about a COI. It was John Carter, an editor/administrator who was heavily involved in the Falun Gong content disputes at the time and who wrote a comment as an ordinary editor. ~~Please check your references before you rush headlong into quoting your candidate.~~ (It wasn't OhConfucius but PCPP who misattributed the quote both in his own statement and above. I apologise.) Of course, the fact that John Carter seems interested in atheistically oriented topics [95] would, by the same problematic reasoning, present a "very realistic COI" in matters related to spiritual beliefs. I would never dare to make such allegations. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 09:29, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I never mentioned COI, and I'm truly baffled by the above comment. Whether I am "rush[ing] headlong into quoting [my] candidate" or not, I'll happily let others be the judge. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 09:39, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I run into an edit conflict with you when I was correcting my mistake above. It was PCPP whose signature I missed in between the comments. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 09:42, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 03:57, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't just Carter. I would remind all that Olav's 'efforts' were also criticised by Shell Kinney (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) – respected admin and former Arb. As to your "Of course you didn't", I'll leave others to interpret it. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 03:57, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't look to me like Shell Kinney was being especially critical. It looked like Olaf was asking him for guidance and clarification, and Shell provided it. Ironically, Olaf asked whether he will forever be haunted by the sanction that was brought against him two years ago, regardless of any steps he takes to remedy his behaviour. I appears he has his answer; one would think this was an arbitration request against Olaf. Let me remind everyone that it is not.—Zujine|talk 05:09, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Quigley

I am often alerted to PCPP's disputes with various Falun Gong disciples through the various RfCs he brings.[96][97][98] PCPP is not unwilling to use the talk page, but he tries to address the fact that such discussions often feature the same people, same arguments, and same personal attacks against PCPP that we see here (of his being a Communist Party stooge, etc), in ways some more polite than others.

The picture that the submitter paints of some aggressive, uncompromisable ideologue is not one that people outside of the dichotomous Falun Gong worldview usually find through interaction with PCPP. To take myself as an example, PCPP's reverts at Expo 2010 are portrayed by Zujine as having driven Homunculus away from the page. But as the two sections of expired RfC discussion show, all uninvolved commentators, including myself and excluding a Falun Gong SPA, agreed with PCPP's decision, and a substantial portion of us believed that Homunculus had manipulated the source and weight in his erstwhile addition.

The key is that PCPP is not a unilateral editor. As the last vanguard of a knowledgable perspective on Falun Gong independent of the religious and political interests that seek to bolster its image, every one of his edits are scrutinized and his talk page littered with threats, demands, and ultimatums enough to drive any user to rash editing. Yet throughout all of this, PCPP has no habit of breaking consensuses on content controversies established with the input of outsiders; in fact he tries to facilitate such consensuses through RfCs.

The limit of PCPP's "tendentious" editing is changing text while it is under discussion (most Falun Gong topics, it seems, are under perpetual discussion). Zujine can't take the moral high ground there, as he used the same tactic just a day before filing this request. The fact that Zujine and Homunculus can't interact civilly with PCPP says more about them than it does about PCPP. Quigley (talk) 01:58, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dilip Rajeev

As a user who has contributed significantly to these pages, and has played a major role on building articles like the Kilgour Matas Report, in my opinion, the user under scrutiny should be carefully judged based solely on the evidence presented and evidence from previous RFCs on him/her. Deviating attention from this, saying another editor is such and such - is of little or no use, unless one is trying to defend the clearly disruptive behavior for which evidence has been presented.

Even if it be the case that there are genuine concerns on other editors, we can address them in separate RFCs. In my experience with PCPP what I have experienced is repeated, whole-scale blanking of content added to pages on issues related to Chinese communist violations of human rights - which includes a lot of highly sourced content I have attempted to add to certain topics related to China. The user refuses to give any explanation, and tends to blank out info under edit summaries that mislead. To claim the user has "no habit of breaking census" is a bit of a stretch. The number of users active on these articles who have raised concerns along similar lines as the user who files this complaint isn't few. The number of RFCs raised against the user, and the evidence presented there-in is sufficient in-substantiate arguments made in support of the user, And every time cases were raised, attention was deviated from the user's disruptive patterns of editing through personal allegations raised against contributors, allegation which attack them personally, ignoring the merit of their contributions, ignoring the extent of the quality academic research that went into their contributions, and the quality of their contributions that has played a major role in making these articles reflect academia, rather than the [ communist propaganda machine]. I hope a similar attention-diversion to an impertinent debate do not happen in this thread. That the substance of the concerns raised will be objectively weighed, based on recent and old evidence, and concrete action taken, as found necessary.

Among the many articles, PCCP has worked to remove information critical of the CCP, is the [610 Office] article. Here, Quigley, an editor who supports PCPP above, entirely distorts the lead of the article 50 Cent Party, to make it sound "softer" to them and quite distorting an objective lead.

It is also to be noted that both Oconfucious and PCPP maintains hatred inducing rants against Falun Dafa, a peaceful practice for mind body cultivation, whose adherents are persecuted to death in China. Is it humane to do that? Is that what wikipedia userpages are for?

Here is a collation of evidence I had presented against PCPP on March 2010, which request is please reviewed. A lot of evidence went unanalyzed: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=348756921#PCPP , which includes content blanking on 6-10 Office 6 times, in a short period, with no explanations given. The thread went unattended for some reason, back then.

Dilip rajeev (talk) 16:08, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning PCPP

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Under the authority of WP:ARBFLG#Discretionary sanctions, pending final disposition of this request, the article Falun Gong is placed under a 1RR/week restriction. All editors are restricted to one revert per rolling 168 hour period, excluding reverts of IP edits and clear vandalism. Violations of this restriction is to be dealt with by escalating blocks, starting at 24 hours. Notice of this restriction will be given on the article talk page and via editnotice.
I'll examine the request later (it's past 4AM here), but the edit warring must stop now. T. Canens (talk) 08:21, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
After reviewing the edits and this thread, I'm getting the feeling that this topic area is filled with agenda-driven accounts on both sides, and needs a thorough review.
I propose the following principles for admin discussion:
- Whether an individual edit, "pro-FLG" or "anti-FLG", is in compliance with our content policies and guidelines, such as NPOV, is usually a content question that is outside the jurisdiction of AE. Exceptions may be made for exceedingly obvious cases where no reasonable editor would have believed otherwise.
- However, a pattern of persistent pro-FLG or anti-FLG edits, especially over multiple articles and subjects, and over a long period of time, is extremely unlikely to arise out of genuine NPOV editing. Rather, such a pattern is strong evidence that the editor is either unwilling or unable to follow NPOV, and is, as such, sanctionable misconduct. T. Canens (talk) 17:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I certainly agree with the second proposition. I largely agree with the first although think it might be put a little high. Source falsification (a common POV-pushing tactic), for instance, is a user conduct issue as well as a content issue. So are BLP violations. I think the better distinction between "individual edits" (proposition 1) and "patterns" (proposition 2) is that isolated incidents only lead to discretionary sanctions in aggravated circumstances. These are general comments: I lack the time now to wade through the extensive evidence presented at this request. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:27, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I'd imagine that BLP violation and source falsification usually pass the "no reasonable editor" exception, but that is a relatively academic issue for the purposes of this case. My sense here is that the second point should be sufficient to resolve this case. T. Canens (talk) 20:28, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Modinyr

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Modinyr

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Nableezy 17:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Modinyr (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Edit Warring at Mahmoud Darwish over content on the destruction of al-Birwa

12 October
15 October
15 October Also a 1RR violation with the above revert
17 October
20 October
24 October

Edit warring at Arab citizens of Israel over the inclusion of the commonly used term Palestinians of 1948

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Notified of the case on 20 September by Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The user, since registering this account, had been carrying out several slow-moving edit wars. The article Mahmoud Darwish is a prime example of the user's chosen method of editing. A review of the talk page will show that there are four users who agree with the material and the reliability of the sources, with Modinyr being the only user disputing what several reliable sources say and reverting ad infinitum to remove that material from the article. A request that the user cease edit warring was met with a claim that the accusation is baseless and the user making it is acting like a drama queen. That was followed by yet another revert of the exact same material (the last one in the Mahmoud Darwish list above)

At Arab citizens of Israel the user has repeatedly reverted without making any attempt to resolve the dispute on the talk page.

The user is seemingly incapable of accepting consensus and seems intent on reverting until he or she is able to exhaust other editors. One user should not be allowed to continue editing in such a manner, disregarding both the sources and every other user that has commented on the talk page. A past 1RR violation that the editor informed the user of was met with I was 18 minutes short. Whoops. This, and each of the reverts since coming off the 1RR block, shows the user views the use of a revert as an entitlement.

The comments below by Modinyr are examples of the problems with his or her editing practices. To begin with, I have made exactly 0 edits regarding either the Darwish dispute or the one at Arab citizens of Israel. Zero. In fact, my last edit to the Darwish article was over two years ago. Yet for some reason this user feels justified in claiming that But Nableezy thinks he knows. He thinks because there are several sources that say "the village was destroyed" then that entitles Wikipedia to say "the village was destroyed by Zionists." Later, the user writes Nableezy wants the Mahmoud Darwish page to say "Zionists destroyed his home!" He finds it annoying that I require a source for this info. The user makes no effort to see if his claims have any grounding, it is enough for him that I made a remark on the reliability of a single source so that he can make these absurd claims about what I want or what I believe. I also have had zero involvement at the other conflict this user has been engaged in (and by engaged I mean edit warring without respite). But the user claims Look at the editing of Arab citizens of Israel and you will see the kind of weasel-words and non-encyclopedic language that Nableezy finds acceptable as long as it serves his worldview. Really? It does not bother this user that he makes these wild attacks without providing any evidence (which would be difficult as it does not exist). This is a common pattern with the user. Any user who opposes his or her view in any way is immediately branded a propagandist who is intent on destroying Wikipedia. Also, despite being blocked for edit warring, it is clear that the user either does not understand what edit warring is (the claim that because the words removed each time were different makes it so that the user was not edit warring by repeatedly reverting) or is feigning ignorance.

I also share Sean's concern about a connection with a past account, but I think Lutrinae is stale. I might open an SPI based on the behavioral evidence, but, like Sean, I cant bring myself to waste that much time on this editor.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Modinyr

Statement by Modinyr

The attempt to paint me as an edit-warrior is untrue. I have been involved in several discussions and some of them have stretched the limits of civility, but none of them have resulted in disruption.

If you look at the examples Nableezy has provided, you will see that the revision history of Mahmoud Darwish is not edit warring. Me and the other editor were not unduing the same revert over and over. The sources say the town of Al-Birwa was destroyed. But an editor wanted to insert the OR claim that the Israeli Army purposefully destroyed the village.

Look at #17 October "...they returned to find that the village had been destroyed by Zionists." I removed this sentence. It is not encyclopedic nor verifiable.

Also, Nableezy claims that these two edits are the same and a violation of the 1RR rule. They are different edits...

All of my edits in the Mahmoud Darwish section were explained. Nableezy thinks I'm trying to hide the story of Al-Birwa's destruction. He doesn't realize that I've only been removing assumptions about WHO destroyed the village. It is not known if the village was destroyed during the fighting, or destroyed afterward. But Nableezy thinks he knows. He thinks because there are several sources that say "the village was destroyed" then that entitles Wikipedia to say "the village was destroyed by Zionists."

There has been discussion on the talk page. I've taken part. But it isn't true that four editors are in agreement. They all want mention of the destruction of Al-Birwa and so do I. But we aren't in agreement about who or what destroyed them. One source, a government sponsored newspaper from the corrupt, racist autocracy of U.A.E. says that the Zionists destroyed the village. That isn't a reliable source. Losts of gov't run Arab newspapers say that Jews assassinated Yassir Arafat. That doesn't mean it is a verifiable fact.

The second group of charges, that I've been interfering in Arab citizens of Israel is also false. As can be seen, the edits are several days apart. I gave an edit summary each time. It is true that neither I nor the other editor have used the talk page yet, but we aren't disruptive. If you look at my edit, you'll see I am trying to change loaded phrasings into a more neutral voice.

The charge that "The user, since registering this account, had been carrying out several slow-moving edit wars" is pure name-calling. Look at my contribs, they are mostly helpful, uncontroversial, and unopposed. A few edits, mostly in relation to Israel and Palestine, have brought some discussion, but I don't think it has been disruptive.

Nableezy wants the Mahmoud Darwish page to say "Zionists destroyed his home!" He finds it annoying that I require a source for this info. And a thousand newspapers that say "his house was destroyed" doesn't let anybody make OR assumptions about who did.

Look at the editing of Arab citizens of Israel and you will see the kind of weasel-words and non-encyclopedic language that Nableezy finds acceptable as long as it serves his worldview. Modinyr (talk) 22:36, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Modinyr

Comment by Sean.hoyland - Modinyr's approach to editing and the style of their interactions with other editors reminds me of the University of Hawaii based Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive92#Lutrinae. I don't know whether they are the same editor, or whether this edit about Hawaii or their interest in the Palestinian people article soon after they registered is a coincidence or a clue. If they were editing constructively I wouldn't care but frankly I'm reluctant to waste much time on this editor having already written them off, talking of name calling, as irredeemably deranged given the profoundly stupid comments they have made on my talk page at various times and their distinctly creepy interest in things like where my wife and I spent last weekend (no idea how that would help resolve the issue at the Mahmoud Darwish article).

The contrast between how they see their edits/comments and the actual edits/comments is quite stark.

Here is an example of the kind of nonsense editors have to put up with when dealing with this editor where they facilitate blatant POV pushing.
hgilbert accurately described their approach as obstructionist here based on his experience at the Mahmoud Darwish article. That interaction led to my involvement at the Mahmoud Darwish article by providing 6 reliable sources and urging Modinyr to find a reasonable policy based compromise or expect an AE report (Nableezy filed the report but if he hadn't, I would have filed one eventually). It didn't make any difference. Modinyr is not interested in what sources say or finding sources. In this very AE report he dismisses The National from the "racist autocracy of U.A.E" even though the ref actually used was the New Statesman, something he surely should be aware of given that he removed it twice.
Here is an example of his careless editing where he reverted one of my edits, presumbly just because it was mine, with the edit summary "Restoring sourced info". Clearly he didn't even read the source because the information I removed wasn't in the source as my "per source cited" indicated.

One of the most bizarre aspects of this editor is the way he seems to see his arguments at the Mahmoud Darwish article and elsewhere as if he is trying to avoid unsourced assumptions and yet he makes ludicrous evidenceless assumptions about the state of mind and nature of the editors he deals with as a matter of routine. He has done it again here about Nableezy. He will keep doing it until someone stops him. Editors shouldn't have to put up with editors like Modinyr in the topic area. An SPI report may be worthwhile to establish whether this is a new incarnation of Lutrinae but frankly I just can't be bothered to waste anymore time on this guy. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is baseless mud-throwing. First off, associating me with another editor is a flimsy arguement and a dirty trick. It certainly isn't appropriate for another editor to refer to another editors wife, but I've never done that. I don't know why Sean would throw an accusation like that.

A lot of my editing is getting rid of polemic language. Look at the "Arab citizens of Israel" page. Look at the editting I was trying to do. Nableezy said I was "edit warring without respite." On the Arab citizens of Israel page I just started a talk page discussion, not a revert. I only did three changes and explained myself all three times. Besides, the edits were for neutral language. It isn't "blatant POV pushing" like Sean says.

Sean did bring 6 sources to the arguement. But none of them proved what Ghilbert was trying to say. Just because you brought a bunch of sources that say "Paris is the capital of France," doesn't mean you can use those sources to say "Paris is the city of light." In the third bullet point, Sean removed the word "convicted" from an article and I restored it. The source that is used plainly uses the words "convicted criminals." So Sean removed the sourced information and said I "didn't even read the source because the information I removed wasn't in the source." This is just false.

These accusations don't hold up. Modinyr (talk) 19:55, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Modinyr

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

This seems to be a case of long-term edit warring by Modinyr at Mahmoud Darwish and Arab citizens of Israel. He never exceeds one revert per 24 hours, but he keeps restoring the same material over a long period. One way of addressing the matter would be to limit Modinyr to 1RR per *week* on all I/P articles for three months. This would encourage him to be more persuasive on the talk page. EdJohnston (talk) 21:24, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Ed, and add that it may be a good idea to add a discussion restriction on top of that - i.e., requiring Modinyr to discuss any reverts they make on the talk page. T. Canens (talk) 16:41, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Russavia

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Russavia

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Biophys (talk) 16:45, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Russavia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Russavia-Biophys#Russavia_restricted

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

25 October 2011. Russavia reverts this edit by Vecrumba with whom he has interaction ban. Note that Vecrumba did not revert any previous edits by Russavia at this page. Hence he is not at fault.
26 October 2011,
26 October 2011. Russavia reverts edits by Marek with whom he has interaction ban. This is also a violation of interaction ban by Marek, which does not excuse Russavia.
September 24 Russavia reverts completely my edits in article Aeroflot. Note that I did not revert any previous edits by Russavia at this page. Hence I would not be at fault even if I had an interaction ban with Russavia. Neither I reverted Russavia later.
September 24 - He invites Igny for help (also a violation of his interaction ban with several users mentioned in the diff)
October 15 He responds to my question addressed to other users (which he is not suppose to do per WP:BAN) and explains that he does not care about his ban.
October 15 He complains to Giano about his interaction bans and asks him for for help against "EEML".

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

As clear from the response by Russavia, he believes that I follow his edits with the purpose of harassment [99]. This is not so. Yes, I watched contributions by several editors in this area and talked with them (not Russavia, but Vecrumba, TLAM, Kolokol1 and a few others), but never with the purpose of harassment. Here are some facts related to my interactions with Russavia during last year. First, I did not revert any edits by Russavia anywhere, including two articles where we had serious content disputes in the past and Aeroflot where we had no previous disputes with him. Second, I did not even talk with Russavia for a long time except one case when he reverted my edit in a similar situation a month ago. Third, I never asked for sanctions for Russavia, prior to submitting this request, even when he reverted my edits in two articles. In essence, I did not interact with Russavia, even though I do not have an interaction ban with him.

Finally, even now I gave him an opportunity to self-revert and have the issue closed [100][101], but it was clear from his response and actions (reverting edits by Marek) that he is not going to comply. This is actually the problem: Russavia honestly believes that he is "above the law" and has no obligation to comply with Arbcom decisions [102] and follow WP:BAN ("editor X is not permitted to ... undo editor Y's edits to any page"). Hence I had no other choice, but to submit this request.

I realize that everyone is very tired. Here is one possible solution, and you can do it per the existing discretionary sanctions without asking Arbcom. If this is implemented, I am sure that no one involved (including myself) will ever edit the same articles as Russavia, and I admit that he is a valuable contributor. Biophys (talk) 16:45, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Russavia

Please note, that there is likely to be collateral damage in relation to both User:Vecrumba and User:Tammsalu. Given interactions at Talk:Estonian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic#Dubious, and given Vecrumba's revert of problems here, as per Talk:Courland_Pocket#McAteer.27s_book. If interaction ban sanctions are placed on me for my edit on Russia Today, then interaction ban sanctions should also be placed on these two editors.

However, one will notice that I havnot reported anything to AE in these recent instances, because I refuse to use interaction bans and AE as a battleground tool to get sanctions placed on other editors, and there is a somewhat informal agreement between us to interact in instances which are productive. This is backed up by Vecrumba or Tammsalu not filing AE reports either.

Biophys and Marek, on the other hand, have questions to answer in relation to their stalking of my edits. And using interaction bans as a battleground weapon.

Biophys' arrival at Aeroflot, an article which I have been working on expanding and improving, was a case in point of Biophys using an interaction ban as a battleground weapon. Talk:Aeroflot is where the discussion is at. Note, that my removal of information is also supported by WP:BLP. His inclusion of Ivanov’s being in FSB insinuates that this position is somehow related to his position as Chairman on the Aeroflot board. This is a BLP violation, so my revert was more than warranted on that basis alone.

I did post this on Igny’s talk page, but not as a call to arms, but rather exactly what was written; for advice on how to deal with Biophys’ obvious harrassment/hounding of myself. Given Biophys' continued veiled assertions to other editors that I am employed by the Russian government, and his provocative edits on Aeroflot, I did in fact retire. But, I refuse to be hounded from this project.

Biophys has not edited the RT nor Controversies and criticisms of RT in the past, nor has he commented on the talk page. After his hounding of myself on Aeroflot, and his stalking of me to (article started by TLAM which I nommed for deletion), it is obvious he continues to stalk and hound me. He has admitted to stalking me in the past.

Given Biophys’ further hounding at User_talk:Russavia#Hi, and given interactions by other editors with myself, one should ask Biophys why he has not also posted such messages on Vecrumba’s and Tammsalu’s talk pages. One can fairly assume he is using the interaction bans as a weapon.

Therefore, I ask that Biophys, under WP:DIGWUREN discretionary sanctions, also be placed under a likewise interaction ban with myself, and given his blatant hounding, and BLP violation on Aeroflot, a topic ban from Aeroflot (and all associated articles, broadly construed).

Marek is exactly the same. He has never edited the RT or Controversies article before, nor has he used the talk page. His appearance at Controversies and criticisms of RT is obvious stalking and baiting, in addition to a violation of his interaction ban, as per Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern_European_mailing_list#Radeksz and Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern_European_mailing_list#Editors_restricted.

Claims of how they found articles should be dismissed, as per previous precedent at Wikipedia:EEML#Improper_coordination, and Biophys’ admission of past stalking. Marek’s assertion of myself stalking Vecrumba should also be dismissed outright, as I have edited the RT article before, and it is one of the few articles still on my watchlist, as I have plans in future to do some rewriting (in addition to trying to get video released under CC licence).

I do concede to the point raised by Marek in there not being anything on the talk page of RT, this was a ‘’mistake’’ on my part, in that I did write up an explanation of why I removed information from the article, and also why I merged the POVFORK back to the main article, however due to having a million tabs open, and working on different things at the same time, it appears that I forgot to save it. It was an honest oversight on my part, and I apologise for that.

If admins don’t see my ‘’partial’’ revert (this is not an outright revert of this) on RT as disruptive, and given that there have been continued mutual interactions between myself, Tammsalu and Vecrumba recently, I ask that the request against myself be dismissed as an obvious attempt by Biophys to use interaction bans as a weapon, and for WP:BOOMERANG to apply to him as per above evidence. If blocks for interaction ban violations are placed on myself, then it is not fair in any sense for this to only apply to myself, but on all editors. Russavia ^{Let's dialogue} 20:34, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Russavia

Comment by Volunteer Marek

It was my understanding after the last round that "content edits" did not fall under the interaction ban. This was the excuse Russavia used last time, for his perennial kicking over of ant hills, and that is why he was let off the hook previously. But if that is true then the edits above are not part of the interaction ban.

However, Russavia posting threats and insults to my talk page (he spared me the personal emails this time) [103] IS a violation of his interaction ban.

And no, there was no "stalking" going on here. I noticed the page because of edits made by User:Galassi [104] and User:Lvivske [105] (note that these are two more editors whom Russavia is essentially reverting here)

As to the content of the dispute, basically Russavia is trying to delete an article he doesn't like by first gutting it [106], [107], [108], [109] and then saying "oh look this article has hardly anything in it, let's just merge it into another article [110], tooh tooh dooh, nothing to see here, nope". Of course the proper thing to do in such situations - especially with controversial articles such as this one is to either start an AfD (which Russavia is not doing because he knows nobody will agree with him) or put an "Request for merge" tag on the article (ditto).

Russavia claims that there's some discussion about this but I see nothing on the original talk page [111] and no comments by Russavia at the other article's talk page either [112]. All I see there is a discussion between Vecrumba and Galassi on one hand and User:Voyevoda and some fairly new user who's making personal attacks at Galassi, on the other. So if there's stalking going on, it's Russavia stalking Vecrumba not other way around.

@TC: Nowhere have we allowed so-called "content edits" to be an exception to an interaction ban, and for good reason. - ah, ok, then I confess that I am honestly confused as to what does and does not fall under interaction bans. Last time I thought the argument was that content edits are not covered by them which is why Russavia was allowed to go around reverting people he has an interaction ban with. But if it is as you say, then that's actually a good thing - I very much agree that "content edits" should NOT be an exception to the interaction ban. Volunteer Marek 17:51, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Colchicum

This is not restricted to RT (TV network). Not sure about the others, but Russavia has been violating his interaction bans for weeks, behaving as if they didn't exist. Look at this comment. Such a comment on a partisan user's talkpage certainly cannot be construed as an instance of necessary dispute resolution. See also his edits at Aeroflot and Talk:Aeroflot, in particular this one: "I really don't care if I am banned from interacting with you Biophys.". See also this amendment request. Colchicum (talk) 19:25, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Collect

Russavia has done her best to make those who were willing to give her leeway (such as I) rethink that position. I have always spoken against Draconian solutions, but Russavia has operated on the misapprehension that all who do not back her are her enemy (sigh). In the case at hand, "blocks all around" would reward her behaviour, which I fear is unwise. The iterated debate system of saying that one will respond at a future date, or that one is "retired" for some small period of time, especially when such a responses is not then made, is also a problem. Collect (talk) 19:44, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Russavia

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

This dispute concerns RT (TV network). Russavia reverted an edit by User:Vecrumba, a person from whom he is interaction-banned. Though the content of Russavia's edits causes me no great concern, we are expected to enforce the interaction bans. Arbcom recently declined to undo one of Russavia's interaction bans, so he must be very familiar with the issue. Since this violation is not inadvertent, I suggest a one-week block. EdJohnston (talk) 17:30, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Blocks all around, it seems. Nowhere have we allowed so-called "content edits" to be an exception to an interaction ban, and for good reason. T. Canens (talk) 17:39, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Timotheus, can you clarify the 'blocks all around?' Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 19:09, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking about this diff. T. Canens (talk) 20:30, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I think we can proceed with the block. Even if the alleged hounding exists, Russiavia should have used the proper channels (e.g., an AE request). It's certainly not an excuse to break an interaction ban with impunity. T. Canens (talk) 20:33, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[a]

[b]

@@ Line 682: / Line 682: @@
 ===Discussion concerning Russavia===
+Please note, that there is likely to be collateral damage in relation to both [[User:Vecrumba]] and [[User:Tammsalu]]. Given interactions at [[Talk:Estonian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic#Dubious]], and given Vecrumba's [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Courland_Pocket&action=historysubmit&diff=453138308&oldid=449443399 revert] of problems [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Courland_Pocket&action=historysubmit&diff=448199892&oldid=445940116 here], as per [[Talk:Courland_Pocket#McAteer.27s_book]]. If interaction ban sanctions are placed on me for my edit on [[Russia Today]], then interaction ban sanctions should also be placed on these two editors.
-====Statement by Russavia====
-I will post my statement in due course. As I will be asking for sanctions to be brought against:
+'''However''', one will notice that I havnot reported anything to AE in these recent instances, because '''I refuse''' to use interaction bans and AE as a battleground tool to get sanctions placed on other editors, and there is a somewhat informal agreement between us to interact in instances which are productive. This is backed up by Vecrumba or Tammsalu not filing AE reports either.
-* Biophys
-* Volunteer Marek
+Biophys and Marek, on the other hand, have questions to answer in relation to their stalking of my edits. And using interaction bans as a battleground weapon.
-I'll be damned if these users are going to get away with stalking and [[WP:HOUND|hounding]]. I have evidence to post and will do so in the next day or so. [[User:Russavia|Russavia]] <sup>[[User talk:Russavia|Let's dialogue]]</sup> 18:24, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
+Biophys' arrival at [[Aeroflot]], an article which I have been working on expanding and improving, was a case in point of Biophys using an interaction ban as a battleground weapon. [[Talk:Aeroflot]] is where the discussion is at. Note, that my removal of information is also supported by [[WP:BLP]]. His inclusion of Ivanov’s being in FSB insinuates that this position is somehow related to his position as Chairman on the Aeroflot board. This is a BLP violation, so my revert was more than warranted on that basis alone.
+I did post [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Igny&diff=prev&oldid=452147584 this] on Igny’s talk page, but not as a call to arms, but rather exactly what was written; for advice on how to deal with Biophys’ obvious harrassment/hounding of myself. Given Biophys' continued veiled assertions to other editors that I am employed by the Russian government, and his provocative edits on Aeroflot, I did in fact retire. But, '''I refuse to be hounded from this project'''.
+Biophys has not edited the RT nor [[Controversies and criticisms of RT]] in the past, nor has he commented on the talk page. After his hounding of myself on Aeroflot, and his stalking of me to (article started by TLAM which I nommed for deletion), it is obvious he continues to stalk and hound me. He has [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Russavia&diff=next&oldid=278117418 admitted] to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Russavia&diff=next&oldid=278116646 stalking me in the past].
+Given Biophys’ further hounding at [[User_talk:Russavia#Hi]], and given interactions by other editors with myself, one should ask Biophys why he has not also posted such messages on Vecrumba’s and Tammsalu’s talk pages. One can fairly assume he is using the interaction bans as a weapon.
+'''Therefore, I ask that Biophys, under WP:DIGWUREN discretionary sanctions, also be placed under a likewise interaction ban with myself, and given his blatant hounding, and BLP violation on Aeroflot, a topic ban from Aeroflot (and all associated articles, broadly construed).'''
+Marek is exactly the same. He has never edited the RT or Controversies article before, nor has he used the talk page. His appearance at [[Controversies and criticisms of RT]] is obvious stalking and baiting, in addition to a violation of his interaction ban, as per [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern_European_mailing_list#Radeksz]] and [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern_European_mailing_list#Editors_restricted]].
+Claims of how they found articles should be dismissed, as per previous precedent at [[Wikipedia:EEML#Improper_coordination]], and Biophys’ admission of past stalking. Marek’s assertion of myself stalking Vecrumba should also be dismissed outright, as I '''have''' edited the RT article before, and it is one of the few articles still on my watchlist, as I have plans in future to do some rewriting (in addition to trying to get [http://freevideo.rt.com/ video released under CC licence]).
+I do concede to the point raised by Marek in there not being anything on the talk page of RT, this was a ‘’mistake’’ on my part, in that I did write up an explanation of why I removed information from the article, and also why I merged the POVFORK back to the main article, however due to having a million tabs open, and working on different things at the same time, it appears that I forgot to save it. It was an honest oversight on my part, and I apologise for that.
+If admins don’t see my ‘’partial’’ revert ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=RT_%28TV_network%29&action=historysubmit&diff=457239716&oldid=457097890 this] is not an outright revert of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=RT_%28TV_network%29&action=historysubmit&diff=457097890&oldid=456992353 this]) on RT as disruptive, and given that there have been continued mutual interactions between myself, Tammsalu and Vecrumba recently, I ask that the request against myself be dismissed as an obvious attempt by Biophys to use interaction bans as a weapon, and for [[WP:BOOMERANG]] to apply to him as per above evidence. If blocks for interaction ban violations are placed on myself, then it is not fair in any sense for this to only apply to myself, but on all editors. [[User:Russavia|Russavia]] <sup>[[User talk:Russavia|Let's dialogue]]</sup> 20:34, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 ====Comments by others about the request concerning Russavia====

v t e Noticeboards
Wikipedia's centralized discussion, request, and help venues. For a listing of ongoing discussions and current requests, see the dashboard. For a related set of forums which do not function as noticeboards see formal review processes.
General	Administrators Main Incidents Bots Bureaucrats Centralized discussion Closure requests Education Interface admins Main Page errors Open proxies VRT Oversight User permissions
Articles and content	Biographies of living persons Copyrights Questions on media Problems Dispute resolution External links Fringe theories Neutral point of view Original research Pending changes Reliable sources Resource requests Scalable vector graphics Spam Blacklist Whitelist Style Titleblacklist Translation
Page handling	History merges Mergers Splits Moves Protection Importation XfD Articles Redirects Categories Templates Files Miscellany Undeletion
User conduct	Conflict of interest Contributor copyright Edit warring and 3RR Sanctions Personal restrictions General sanctions Contentious topics Sockpuppets Usernames (Requests for comment) Vandalism
Other	Arbitration Committee noticeboard Requests Enforcement Edit filters Requested False positives Questions Help desk Teahouse Reference desk New articles Requests for comment Village pump Policy Technical Proposals Idea lab WMF Miscellaneous WikiProject proposals Discussions for discussion
Category:Wikipedia noticeboards