Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2009 September 6: Difference between revisions

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September 6

Template:Launchballer

Template:Launchballer (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

This is a user's signature template. In essence, the user launchballer places this on a talk page, fills in some parsers and his message, then leaves it without substing. A template's not needed to flag that specifically launchballer has left a message on a page. GrooveDog (oh hai.) 19:41, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Bad Warning

Template:Bad Warning (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Seems redundant with {{Uw-tempabuse}} template series. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 18:40, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Ascript

Template:Ascript (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Very old template. Redundant with {{IPA|ɑ}}. The especial character can be found in toolbox and in the special characters section of the new toolbar. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 18:34, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:ApacheLicense

Template:ApacheLicense (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

There is only one image tagged with this. The image should be moved to commons and the template deleted. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 18:23, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:AlumniStart2

Template:AlumniStart2 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template:Alum2 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template:AlumniEnd2 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

All of them are duplicates ({{AlumniStart}}, {{Alum}} and {{AlumniEnd2}}). The only difference is that {{AlumniStart2}} use width as percentages instead of px. Unused. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 18:09, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Alessandra Amoroso

Template:Alessandra Amoroso (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

No links. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 18:00, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Useless. Delete. Himalayan 18:35, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Aicelle Santos

Template:Aicelle Santos (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

One link. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 17:57, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Australian Place

This may not win any popularity contests but I would say the infoboxes need updating and allowing for a pin location map. I think the articles would look much better with a standard infobox (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/Standard settlement example) and really there is no reason to have special templates for Australia. The parameters are really in disorder with timezone amongst main population details and backwards district order at the bottom rather than everything at the top in top down order which is convention. See Alice Springs, Northern Territory, I think the proposed standard template would work better please see the example. Please note that any parameters can be taken out or included such is the flexibility of the template if their are any concerns about empty parameters.. P.S. then we can get rid of thise undightly dot maps which bloat the beginning of the articles. Nice high quality svgs within the templates are the way to go! Himalayan 17:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep No valid grounds given for deletion, and user has failed to engage at the template's or the project's talk page before coming here. The user's issue with the template seems to be with specific usages of it rather than a general case (the template is used in literally thousands of articles including a variety of settlement types from Local Government Areas to cities and towns to suburbs). I'd be happy to see the dot maps go myself, but that is a matter for Images for deletion, not a template discussion (the field is normally used for pictures of the locale). See for example the featured articles Hamersley, Western Australia, Yarralumla, Australian Capital Territory and Waterfall Gully, South Australia as examples of their use "on the ground". Looking at the example I find it hard to imagine how any of these three articles would be accommodated, and certainly with many of our stubs, the proposed template would be substantially larger than the article. Orderinchaos 18:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep and direct nominator to discuss at Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia This is a high use template that is used in several thousand articles (if my maths is right it's about 6,646) and contains fields and information that is unique to Australian locations with unique linking. The nominator does not seem too familiar with the template as it already includes allowance for a pin location map, as used in articles such as Brisbane and Melbourne. The instructions for using the pin map are in the template documentation. The example that the nominator has used (Alice Springs, Northern Territory) is a poor example of the use of this template. Even an example such as Nelson Bay, New South Wales is a better example of the use of this template, which is not merely limited to individual settlements but to LGAs and even entire regions, such as Hunter Region. It appears that the aim of the nominator is replace the current infobox, which was decided on after considerable discussion, with his own version,[1] without involving the Wikipedians most affected. He should have discussed this first at Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia, not here. --AussieLegend (talk) 18:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It will be interesting to see how many people who oppose are not members of WP:Australia.... The thing is, what does this template provide that the standard cannot? That's why I ask, my main concern is that I have no idea where the places are by simply looking at the infoboxes in Australia... (you use the location map in an extremely limited group of articles...) I think the standard layout is cleaner and easier to follow (if I knew how to operate the template I could have added location maps too them, that is my point, they are not easy for outsiders to follow who have to get to grips with how they work..). Could you explain why you think it is necessary to have a special template for Australia? The reason why it is necessary to discuss it here and not WP:AU is because it involves the whole community who read and look at these articles, your project doesn't own the template and any discussion is likely to entirely one sided in terms of viewpoint.... Himalayan 18:49, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's only one sided when you avoid discussing with those actually affected by it, and then make a radical proposal without any clear grounds, simply putting forward your own template for How Things Should Be (tm). If you were more willing to work with editors in good faith, you'd find that some of your ideas will be accepted by local editors whilst others will not be. That's just the nature of it. As for "ownership", likewise, those who develop Infobox Settlement do not own all geographical articles and nor should they. In a global encyclopaedia we can afford to be local in our scope to some degree to give readers a full appreciation of the variety of our world. You imply in the above that we think we are somehow special or set apart - this fails to explain why a considerable number of countries have their own templates, including that mothership of the English language, Great Britain. Each group of editors decides what is best for their needs, and I fully support that. At times the IAP development people have seen ideas they've liked in other templates and incorporated them. (Likewise, I know of several instances where our ideas have been used by others around the world.) In at least a dozen instances, some editor from the US or UK has wandered onto the talk page and pointed something out that needs fixing - usually the next line is "Done." High-handedness and bad faith is not necessary.

To give just two examples of how Australia is in fact different - no country besides Australia, New Zealand and South Africa has a concept of "suburbs" that matches our usage (and the other two countries have less precise or different definitions than Australia, so what works for us wouldn't work for them), and with the standard template, one loses the border tables which link people to surrounding suburbs. Similar issues apply to Local Government Areas. Take for example the suburbs in the ACT where no level of local government exists but the capital is divided into "regions" which have no autonomous authority whatsoever - our template accommodates that, but the standard does not. As AussieLegend has pointed out, the current template has both a simplicity and flexibility which allows all Australian conditions (even some unanticipated ones if ever there is a need) to be accommodated. Orderinchaos 19:11, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Um, don't you think that actually the standard infobox settlement can cater for suburbs in Australia? Does NZ or South Africa have their own templates? I guarantee that the template can be used on any settlement under the sun... Himalayan 19:37, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Both have their own templates. And why should we settle for second best? "Can possibly be tailored to fit circumstances" vs "already fits circumstances well" is not really a competition. Orderinchaos 19:41, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well your goal was "standardising infoboxes across all towns and suburbs and creating a standard set of articles for Local Government Areas of Western Australia". So we evidently share similar goals, just a different point of view about which template to use. I think you just feel a little bit like I'm invading your turf so to speak because you have put time and energy into adding your templates to the articles, but I'm not, I just think wikipedia is better off having articles and documentation consistent.... I take things at face value. For instance Echuca, Victoria. I want to be able to glance at that infobox and know exactly where in Australia it. Why doesn't it providing a pushpin map to help my understanding? Then if I try to add a pushpin map and coordinates it won't work because I am unfamilar with the special template. Why can't all of the articles have a proper map and coordinates? Even Melbourne is not a good locator map for those who are unfamilar with Australia. Himalayan 19:49, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Within one single regulatory system, that is possible and desirable. All LGAs in Western Australia are governed by the same Act of Parliament, are accountable through the same Electoral Commission to voters, and through the same Local Government and Regional Development department to government itself. Even with other states we have occasional fractions which need to be resolved (eg the perennial Shire of ~ vs ~ Shire vs ~ (Shire) Council argument which is differently resolved in different places). Adding 200+ other countries is simply insane. I do not think consistency for its own sake is a good goal when we lose diversity - consistency only works when it is genuinely possible to be consistent. It has nothing to do with turf - I believe each country with an editing population large enough to justify it *should* have its own system, the argument is just as pertinent for countries in continental Europe with their own traditions, customs, languages and ways of doing things as it is for us. Where the population is not large enough to justify it and the detail will never be there, or if the editors of a given area believe the generic meets their needs well, yeah, have a generic system as a fallback.

As for your arguments based on individual applications of a template (which I maintain are irrelevant to this discussion) and your particular desires about what you want to see, that should be brought up with the project and discussed. For instance, I do see merit in some of your arguments about the ordering of the fields - perhaps that could be revisited. However the fundamental "we know best" attitude towards other societies and cultures and the *refusal* to discuss and the immediate assumption of bad faith coming from some Wikipedians (usually obsessed with some standard or other which readers do not give a stuff about) is really, really entrenched and I think as a Wikipedian it is important to challenge that. It should be for all, not the elite. If you want to travel to another country and you go around speaking to everyone in the Queen's English and correcting people, you will not get very far, even in an English speaking country. Same applies here. Orderinchaos 20:04, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and as an aside how do you propose your pin map model would work to suburbs in cities which I believe constitute almost half the applications of the current template? They'd all cluster around tiny points at the major city locations with no distinction between them. (And you still haven't answered the issue about the border table which links different suburbs together which is absent from the generic - I know for a fact the non-editing readers use such features heavily, as I've discussed it with colleagues.) I don't see what's wrong with clicking on the coords at the top right and then clicking on a map of one's choice. What Wiki can do is vastly inferior in quality to what the listed services on geohack can do. Orderinchaos 20:15, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The reason why people "don't discuss" is because they get this kind of inflamed rather passionate response that because they are not Australian they have no right to desire to see a pushpin map to see where it actually is.. I think you'd find that more "readers" would like a map showing where in Australia the place is than you might think. As I said if you actually had pin maps within your templates for each town article I wouldn't be so concerned. For suburbs of a city obviously a national locator wouldn't be needed you should just add whatever local map it is for location in city area. I am talking about town articles not suburbs. Himalayan 20:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC).[reply]

Echuca doesn't have a pushpin map simply because nobody has entered the required information in the infobox. That's a problem that can exist in all templates, including the one that you're proposing. It's possible to use a whole Australia map in the infobox, which you'd know if you bothered to look at the template instructions, but it's not necessary. Australia isn't like the USA. We only have six states and two major territories. If you really want to push the "I want to be able to glance at that infobox and know exactly where in Australia it is" argument with any credibility, show me in the Lincoln, Nebraska article, which uses {{Infobox settlement}}, exactly where in the US Lincoln is. If you really want to know where in Australia Melbourne is, just click on the Victoria link at the top of the infobox (I notice that your infobox doesn't have one of those) and you'll see where Victoria is in Australia. Don't assume that everyone will want to see the same information as you. Different people are going to want to see different things. Some people would rather see where in Victoria Melbourne is. The practicalities are that you simply can't show everything that everyone wants in an infobox. That said, what is in {{Infobox Australian Place}} is either there through consensus or because somebody wanted it and there was room. As it stands though, even the existing, consensus built infobox is much larger than the prose in many of our stubs.[2][3] --AussieLegend (talk) 20:29, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This navbox mainly links to 3 articles that are already well linked to each other. For the second line of the navbox: There is a consensus not to connect actor because they appeared to the same show, specially when the show is over! Magioladitis (talk) 13:53, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox of BD districts

Template:Infobox of BD districts (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template such for a several Bangladeshi districts. Should be converted to standard Infobox settlement per the upazila previous nomination. The only good thing is the map showing districts, ideally we need specific maps highlighting the actual district location..

Mmm, what I'll do is create us a full set of district locator maps.... There you go, took me a while but we now have 64 locator maps of all the districts. I've converted Bagerhat District as an example. Himalayan 13:21, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deprecate in favour of {{infobox settlement}}. Merge in any extra parameters. 81.110.104.91 (talk) 16:04, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox City in Afghanistan

Template:Infobox City in Afghanistan (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Barely used in many articles anymore. Should be replaced with the standard Template:Infobox settlement. Himalayan 12:11, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deprecate in favour of {{infobox settlement}}. Merge in any extra parameters. 81.110.104.91 (talk) 16:04, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Poole Town FC Squad

Template:Poole Town FC Squad (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template not being used. Unlikely ever to be used. Unlikely to be beneficial if used as this list is probably only ever going to be of interest to one article. DanielRigal (talk) 11:31, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Replacement with a simple in-article list would be sufficient even if this were used somewhere. --RL0919 (talk) 15:03, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Town AT

Template:Infobox Town AT (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

The template is in German! Meaning we have several thousand articles maybe with German text in. I understand they were copied from German wikipedia which was great as a start, now I feel it is time they were converted to english and to a standard Template:Infobox settlement. Not to mention that the map shouldn't be the same size as the coat of arms and it uses a big red pin so in effect the locator marks like a 60 mile radius!! Himalayan 10:19, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep No actual reason for deletion given. The nominator's comments apply to many useful templates (for example the railway ones which are used all over the place). I don't see why the fields (non-visible) being in a different language, so long as the documentation correctly explains it, is a problem. The greatest number of users of this template will likely be Germanic-speaking anyway as, despite contributing in English, their local knowledge and ability to access sources in that language would be essential to improving articles and details (English language sources are often deficient for European topics). If it presents a particular problem to the nominator, it would not be hard to decide upon an appropriate translation of the template fields and then get a bot to go over all instances. It appears to be a useful template that meets local circumstances far better than the generic. Orderinchaos 19:46, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mmm. Would you really be commenting here if I hadn't have nominated "your" Aussie template too?...This is english wikipedia. There is absolutely no justification for keeping German text on english wikipedia, sorry. Himalayan 20:26, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Intro-fringe

Template:Intro-fringe (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

This template states: The neutrality of this introduction is disputed with the claim that a fringe or minority topic or view has been given too much space or attention. However the {{POV-intro}} template already states: The neutrality of this introduction is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. It seems that this template is redundant. Whether the POV is fringe or just biased is irrelevant.

The Four Deuces (talk) 02:19, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. --RL0919 (talk) 14:55, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete it's simply redundant. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 15:02, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - this template itself is not neutral, as it effectively attacks the introduction. That sort of comment is exactly what the talk page is for. 81.110.104.91 (talk) 15:53, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Wiki User

Template:Infobox Wiki User (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Apparently an unused template. Completely orphaned. Created in 2007, editor has not edited since and appears it has been orphaned all that time. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:12, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. --RL0919 (talk) 15:01, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Adelitas Way

Template:Adelitas Way (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Currently there is nothing to navigate here. All links are already present in each article. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 02:16, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, pointless navbox. This isn't needed purely to link three articles. 81.111.114.131 (talk) 04:19, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Insufficient number of articles to warrant a navbox. --RL0919 (talk) 14:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Actors in Yasmin Ahmad films

Template:Actors in Yasmin Ahmad films (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

A navbox with actors that participated in films from X director? I don't think this is something good. Anyway, most of links are red. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 02:13, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - this might be appropriate where producers or directors tend to use the same regular cast each time, but there's no indication that this is the case here. 81.111.114.131 (talk) 04:27, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete -Consensus indicates we are not to have navigation templates for actors.. Himalayan 11:03, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Tenuous connection and mostly redlinks. Either problem would be sufficient reason to delete. --RL0919 (talk) 14:58, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Template:AZocc

Template:AZocc (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template:AZnote (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

WP:NODISCLAIMERS. If there is not reliable source, then there shouldn't be an article. Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 01:56, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - unresolvable inherent POV, and an inappropriate disclaimer. I note we don't have a template for "Reliable information about this location may be lacking because nobody lives there" ({{ghost-town}}?). 81.111.114.131 (talk) 04:23, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. --RL0919 (talk) 14:56, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 58: / Line 58: @@
 ::::::Oh and as an aside how do you propose your pin map model would work to suburbs in cities which I believe constitute almost half the applications of the current template? They'd all cluster around tiny points at the major city locations with no distinction between them. (And you still haven't answered the issue about the border table which links different suburbs together which is absent from the generic - I know for a fact the non-editing readers use such features heavily, as I've discussed it with colleagues.) I don't see what's wrong with clicking on the coords at the top right and then clicking on a map of one's choice. What Wiki can do is vastly inferior in quality to what the listed services on geohack can do. [[User talk:Orderinchaos|Orderinchaos]] 20:15, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 The reason why people "don't discuss" is because they get this kind of inflamed rather passionate response that because they are not Australian they have no right to desire to see a pushpin map to see where it actually is.. I think you'd find that more "readers" would like a map showing where in Australia the place is than you might think. As I said if you actually had pin maps within your templates for each town article I wouldn't be so concerned. For suburbs of a city obviously a national locator wouldn't be needed you should just add whatever local map it is for location in city area. I am talking about town articles not suburbs.[[User talk:Himalayan Explorer| <span style="border:2px solid #C5B358 ;padding:1px;"> <font style="color:white;background:#B00760;">'''''Himalayan'''''</font>]]</span> 20:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC).
+:Echuca doesn't have a pushpin map simply because nobody has entered the required information in the infobox. That's a problem that can exist in all templates, including the one that you're proposing. It's possible to use a whole Australia map in the infobox, which you'd know if you bothered to look at the template instructions, but it's not necessary. Australia isn't like the USA. We only have six states and two major territories. If you really want to push the "I want to be able to glance at that infobox and know exactly where in Australia it is" argument with any credibility, show me in the [[Lincoln, Nebraska]] article, which uses {{tl|Infobox settlement}}, exactly where in the US Lincoln is. If you really want to know where in Australia [[Melbourne]] is, just click on the [[Victoria (Australia)|Victoria]] link at the top of the infobox (I notice that your infobox doesn't have one of those) and you'll see where Victoria is in Australia. Don't assume that everyone will want to see the same information as you. Different people are going to want to see different things. Some people would rather see where in Victoria Melbourne is. The practicalities are that you simply can't show everything that everyone wants in an infobox. That said, what is in {{tl|Infobox Australian Place}} is either there through [[WP:CONSENSUS|consensus]] or because somebody wanted it and there was room. As it stands though, even the existing, consensus built infobox is much larger than the prose in many of our stubs.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boat_Harbour,_New_South_Wales][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Seaham,_New_South_Wales]  --[[User:AussieLegend|AussieLegend]] ([[User talk:AussieLegend|talk]]) 20:29, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
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