I did not violate 3RR, please unblock me. [[User:Netscott|Netscott]] 03:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I did not violate 3RR, please unblock me. [[User:Netscott|Netscott]] 03:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
:Netscott was clearly acting in good faith re the [[WP:3RR]], and quit reverting when he thought he'd run out. He should be unblocked.[[User:Timothy Usher|Timothy Usher]] 04:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for copying the el fagr picture into the article.
This is the first controversial article I have contributed to, and I did not know this was permitted.
DanielDemaret16:03, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Test reality. Others are sometimes busy contributing while you are rushing to criticize.
Exactly what is your POV on this? You seem to me a bit slanted toward the pissing-on-Jesus-is-art perspective and a bit indifferent to a broad-based study of social conflict with reference to the diverse forms conflicts can take. PaxTerra03:56, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
what's your problem?
three hours ago I asked if you would agree to the list as it stood, if it were listed sequentially. When you didn't immediately share the work of sequentializing the list, i did. Now you continue to whine about content of the list that is not familiar to your immediate experience. Can you consider the possibility that others have knowledge that you have not encountered? You call it tenuous at best perhaps becuase you are not privy to any newsletters of African American community groups, but in doing so you demean the discussion of these groups.
What's more, you assumed bad faith that the typographical error that made Julius Ceaser out of Julius Streicher. How that happened I don't know, because I cut and pasted from a link to Streicher. Whatever. You are giving me the notion Wikipedia is a project of hte piss-on-jesus free speech crowd and that you have no real intention of exploring the history of social conflict as it is exhibited in the controversy that is the topic of that article. PaxTerra05:38, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Your question
Hi Netscott, checked his talk page and contribs. Didn't see any blankings...was there something in particular you wanted me to look at? I have to log off soon but will check if I can. Regards, Babajobu18:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'd seen your note, but it looks as though all five of those edits were made by users other than Terra. Do you have any reason to suspect they are his sockpuppets? Babajobu18:38, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I personally don't have a way of checking, but their are a few admins who have "checkuser" privileges and can check out the IPs of different users to see if they are the same. You can request it here, [1] gotta go. Babajobu
Your interest in an article about which you claim no knowledge
Your changes to the Der Sturmer article serve no purpose other than Wikistalking an editor you seem unable to deal with in direct dialogue about the subject at hand. The fact is, his publication activities were "among evidence" at Neuremberg. The reasons for his conviction, in toto, which you attempt to repeat with an internal link is not the same as a article about his publictions you deprecated that otherwise explained his publications were presented as evidence. When you get done with your wikistalking, try studying some logic, Netscott. It might contribute to a more generally cooperative atmosphere and might encourage me to contribute more content rather than defending ad nauseum the valuable content I've already contributed. An article may be considered overlinked if ... a link is repeated in the same article. Repeating a link to cite text you don't fully understand, and primarily to demonstrate one-up-man-ship to another editor does not contribute to a collaborative environment. PaxTerra
Still wondering about those blanked pages
Not sure why you're accusing me of 'Wikistalking' when I've simply followed wikilinks leading to Julius Steicher from Jyllands and decided to make an edit or two.
In your edits around him I've really gotten the impression that you're rather inclined to belittle Streicher's role in the movement to exterminate the Jews. It almost seems like a racists POV.
And why did you blank those pages? Were you just furious and needed to do something to vent? I suppose that's understandable.
Netscott08:40, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Calling me racist is a personal attack, not to mention 180° off target. Another false allegation. I added a link from the Danish cartoons page to the Julius Sturmer page which you seem determined to remove. Who is the revisionist now? You are the one who has persistantly tried to delete fro the Danish cartoons article reference to public references to Streicher, and I think I recall, to Jewish comparisons to a Palestenian newspaper. Don't try to pass yourself off as a champion of Israel son.
I don't have, in the context of editing these articles, any opinion about his role other than favoring factual representation -- I certainly have not belittled his role -- I have expounded on a role, which you have attempted to hide. Then I assured that the article about his publishing activities contained specific references to the role of his publishing activities as evidence at an International War Crimes tribunal. Your reference to the specious phrase "exterminating the Jews" amplifies a naive phrase that overrates the strengh of Germany, which was spectacularly unable to extermenate a durable and tenecious culture, regardless some Germans prolonged and cruel effort. In amplifying such emotional grandiosity at the expense of clear, accurate exposition only plays into the hands of holocaust deniers. I doubt you, an amateur editor, have spent much time considering the implications of your own publishing activities, nor your obligation to strictly accurate language, Netscott. PaxTerra08:51, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And here User_talk:David.Monniaux#Thanks.21 you can be seen thanking someone for deleting reference the very Julius Streicher article you call me racist for having allegedly belittled his role in the Holocaust. Why don't you want to know that sometimes inciteful speech is considered so offensive, legitimate legal bodies have executed especially virulant practitioners? Do you think it means I want the Danish cartoonists punished? That's just not the case. I am considering the controversy from an academic posture.
I think I'm figuring out the reason for your campaign against me -- you can't understand someone who considers not both, but all sides of a conflict. You want me to take one side or the other, and probably to concede that an essentially all-speech-is-free-speech stance is the core reasonable and neutral stance, while anyone outside that view is motivated by religious belief. But I am adept at considering both the stance of those who advocate libertarian policies toward symbolism and the stance of those who understand reasons to control certain symbolic acts. It really seems to bother you that I don't take sides but that I expound merits of conflicting sides. That is something you can learn to do, Scott. PaxTerra10:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Anytime...but the block is only for 24 hours so if it happens again and appears to be either the same editor or same editing style, post another vandalism report and note the similarities...this will ensure a longer block. But the page is now protected, so that will reduce or eliminate much of the problem, but a page should not be protected very long...a day or two.--MONGO06:10, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously you're an idiot so let me make it clear, I am not another user so stop accusing me of being one particularly ones that are vandals as I am not. 69.248.237.8804:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No Personal Attacks
Accusing User:69.248.237.88 of sockpuppettry in the manner in which you did is highly innapropriate. I've blocked him for personal attacks, but I have half a mind to do the same to you. Keep it civil, alright? --InShaneee04:31, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That wasn't just a question. The tone of all three of your comments is HIGHLY accusatory. If you really wanted to ask, you could have just asked, without the other parts. --InShaneee04:37, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, this is your last warning. That comment on MY talk page now is also out of line. If you've got a problem with this user, take it up through the proper channels. --InShaneee04:47, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Irishpunktom, I don't know why you insist on having this 'anti-denmark boycott' link here when it's already in sub page... for balance here's "support denmark movement"
I know that not all use it this way, but I would prefer the term "ethnic background", since 80% of all biologist seem to find the idea of "race" no longer useful. :) DanielDemaret17:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Netscott, The wikilink to the dossier is right under the heading (main article link). I just removed a duplicate. Please dont revert a substantial edit just because you dissagree with the removal of one link. --PeR11:50, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No I hadn't seen the article, so I'm hugely grateful for the reference. Our studies deal with similar issues, the sharing of intentions, but while the Science one is about sharing 'acts' (being able to grab some food), mine is about the inclination to share information about something novel and weird. I am buried in analyses and organization and havent read ANYTHING (save save the notorious MC discussions) for half an eternity, so it is a welcome addition to my pile. Best, Varga Mila14:59, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Protected page
Allo Netscott,
The past 5 min that I have attempted, I get the prompt that it has been protected so that editing by new or unregistered users have been disabled (despite being logged on). You seem to be able to edit the MC page. Do you know by any chance if it would have something so to with my 'account' as such ? Varga Mila14:19, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just a humble request
Netscoot. I deleted your last contribution. Of course you're right. But he is in no condition to take this. Have some mercy with R., he's obviously a bit, well, fragile ? Thanks Azate00:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Your recent notes at WP:ANI
Netscott - Without prejudice to any other issues raised, I'd be very cautious using the word "defamation". This could be seen as edging up on a legal threat and may serve to ditract from the issues that you are attempting to raise. - brenneman{T}{L}
User notice: temporary 3RR block on Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy
You ask where did I not do so? - I can't understand your question. None of the edits you made were marked as reverts. Please mark them with "revert" or "rv" in the edit summary William M. Connolley09:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I support your proposal, I don't see the point in excluding highly relevant information, that can be included using less than 5 words. As has been lamented against Google's adventures in China, excluding information is tantamount to misinformation (even when the subject is a tightly written encyclopedia entry). But I've decided not to make any further comments or contributions to article (at least for some time), as I find the atmosphere accusative and, at times, uncomfortable. All the best, Varga Mila13:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Apropos the Bamiyan B's: The movie was aired last night on SVT (Swedish Television.) I wasn't home to watch it, but recorded it on video. Interresting movie. Unfortunately I lost the aftertitles with all the detailed references to who is who
I don't like links in comments and I can remove them off my talk page if I want including any comments which I don't need anymore. I left your comment there so I could reply to it; no words changed. Thanks. --a.n.o.n.y.mt20:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
RFC on Irishpunktom
Thanks for getting in touch - I was almost going to get in touch with you but have been busy on other things recently. I think Irishpunktom's heavily pro-Islam POV and habits of blankly reverting are a problem and I copied the RFC template to a user page to prepare it but have not had the time to add information. How about we work together on this? David | Talk12:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. Charles has always had an interest in Islam.. Moreso than any other royal.. He is a Patron of many Islamic Charities, and Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies. [3] His opinions, as the future King-and thus head of a major religion, is not irrelevent. --Irishpunktom\talk14:02, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Scott. Thanks getting it touch & for your offer of assistance. It's nice to know that you're not alone when you're about to pull your hair out in frustration! Obfuscate is a particularly accurate description. Also, if there's anything I can do to help, please just give me a shout. Veej13:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Coloring of words in articles
I noticed you had colored in words in several articles. Please don't do that: literate people can read text quite well enough without needing the words to be colored in. For example: "melanotan II" has a little "II" on the end, so readers can distinguish it from "melanotan", which doesn't. There is no need to go coloring them green and brown, respectively: doing so makes the articles harder to read, and detracts from the rest of the text. -- The Anome14:19, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings, I was curious to know why you didn't specifically point out the examples of "blatant hate for muslims" in your note?
As an new editor on that article my goal is to ensure NPOV in it. Unfortunately there is heavy POV on both sides of the issue which on articles of that type is probably normal. Perhaps you could assist in "NPOVising" the article? Netscott07:46, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I was speaking more about the blatant hate that was apparent in the discussions about the article rather than the article itself. I would love to help NPOVising it...but I'm at a serious loss as to where to start. It's a tricky subject with no easy editing tasks before it. Any specific ideas/sections I'd be glad to tackle though, so let me know. Madangry18:49, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me?!
All right, you don't talk to me about those kinds of things. I wasn't using Crad in any form like that. I was only using it as a shortened variation of Comrade. How did you just happen to stumble on that particular page, huh? Frenchies. Crad001002:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, this just in:
Another "french movie" will be aired tonight on Television 2. Features Ahmed Akkari in the backseat of a cab, frivolously sharing his fantasies of murdering MP Naser Khader to a somewhat surprised french journalist ... :-D
"Smile, you are on candid camera!"
The story was broken by JP at 01:00 this morning and is all over the place by now.
Perhaps; or perhaps your refusal to ackowledge that you should not violate others user pages, make reverts on pages on which you appear to know nothing or taunt people is far from civil - yet you bemoan others for not upholding such things - Who, exactly, is the "illiterate" one.. Who was it, remind me, that you called an "Idiot"?--Irishpunktom\talk16:08, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Or, possibly because it was brought up on a talk page on my watchlist. Your first edit to one of the cited articles was to revert me to include some obviously false information. And you can assume things all you want, it doesn't make you right. Further, you havn't answerd the question I asked. Why won't the Bastian of civility remind me? --Irishpunktom\talk17:39, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
How could the addition of two extremely small comments be construed as vandalism? I'd agree if I had erased the "list" or blanked the page... but this I did not do... your hyperbole makes laugh... thanks for that. LOL! ;-) Netscott12:48, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Irishpunktom but try applying a little logic and realize that I never did attack you by saying you were asinine but your accusations are asinine. There is a big differnce you know? Netscott14:45, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Uh huh, it was so clear to what it was that you were referring to... why don't you just go ahead and file an WP:RFC and watch what a laughingstock it'd become... such an RfC would be asinine itself. Netscott14:49, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Forgive my saying so Irishpunktom but I'm begining to think that you have less than a mastery of the English language (many of your seemingly illiterate posts in fact remind me bit of some of Raphael1's posts). "Angle of Attack" refers to the actual filing of an RfC, not attacking you as an individual. Please do refrain from making such asinine accusations. Netscott15:53, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps; or perhaps your refusal to ackowledge that you should not violate others user pages, make reverts on pages on which you appear to know nothing or taunt people is far from civil - yet you bemoan others for not upholding such things - Who, exactly, is the "illiterate" one.. Who was it, remind me, that you called an "Idiot"?--Irishpunktom\talk16:08, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Another false accusation, at this point it's normal for me to be editing on topics related to Islam and Muslims as the hundreds of Islam and Muslim related article edits on my contribution history will surely demonstrate. A better example of Wikistalking however would be your reverting of my good faith edits on User:Crad0010 which you would only have been aware of if you had 'stalked' me. To be honest though, I don't see either your edits or mine as stalking... you're just demonstrating a suspicion of my edits and I can only assume good faith and suppose you thought that you were within your rights to revert them. You haven't denied that I've made edits of a complimentary nature relative to you, so any reader can assume that my statement is true. Of course I can provide diffs if the need is there. Again Irishpunktom do refrain from making falseaccusations. Netscott16:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Or, possibly because it was brought up on a talk page on my watchlist. Your first edit to one of the cited articles was to revert me to include some obviously false information. And you can assume things all you want, it doesn't make you right. Further, you havn't answerd the question I asked. Why won't the Bastian of civility remind me? --Irishpunktom\talk17:39, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Are you insinuating that I have previously called you an "idiot"? Well, at least your not making further false accusations, but do your best to render your argument cogent and provide a diff. I'm begining to tire of this as you've not made any truly substantiated claims and our argumentation skills do not seem evenly matched. This unfortunately, is turning this "debate" into a one sided conversation. Netscott17:49, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Spell it out for me now.
OK, why in the world did the whole vandilasation joke become such a problem between you and Irishpunktom? Why else would I put in the Police line and chalk outline, and CSI thing on there, as well. It was half joke, half "You know you're not supposed to edit other's userpages, how would you feel if I actually screwed up your userpage with the same reason you edited mine?" Explain yourselves. Now. Crad001001:24, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'll leave the changes be, but here was what I was saying in terms of point of view. I don't think the articles being linked to were written in neutral point of view; I simply think the selection of links were. For example, the link to The 100, whose only purpose is to demonstrates one author's view of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the most influential person in history, is not balanced by another link about criticism of him. In fact, none of those links focus on any articles on an opposing, less respectful viewpoints of the Prophet (although Depictions of Muhammad comes close). The least we could do is relieve the See Also section of some of its piety (Seal of the Prophets) and unnecessary praise (The 100). joturner02:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. I couldn't agree with you more. Those two articles do belong; it must have had to do with the edit conflict that occured during my first edit attempt (I was editing AE's version while you were making your edit). I was only attempting to remove Ya Muhammad, Zulfiqar, The 100, and Seal of the Prophets. Do you contest those removals? But absolutely, Depictions of Muhammad and List of films about Muhammad should remain; I mistakenly presumed that when AE noted back to keeping the links in his edit summary, those links include the latter two. joturner02:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I had tried to save it before, but it failed.. twice.. I was just submitting hoping it would work, the edit comment was not thought of! --Irishpunktom\talk17:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
consensus about displaying cartoons
There is no consensus at all, since there are many who disagree. It might be still a majority, but it is 'no consensus. Raphael118:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Besides this is no vandalism as any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism. This is not an attempt to reduce the quality of the encyclopedia, but rather to improve it's quality by being less offensive. Raphael118:35, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Peter Tatchell
Instead of trying to go piecemeal at Irishpunktom's fundamentally flawed version, start with this version and move on from there. Trust me, if you don't, you'll be here all night. David | Talk00:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If someone does not revert that appalling edit of his in its entirety within the next few minutes I will either scream or do it myself and hang the consequences. David | Talk00:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I thank you for your compliments. But, perhaps a section of people do not want wikipedia to reflect the correct position perhaps. I have removed the page Muslim world from my watch list, and i trust others shall surely make this page reflective of the truth for which we all ahve come here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muslim_world#A_Note In case, you require any administrative assistance, please drop me a note. Thanks. --Bhadani15:44, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wikiethics
Thank you for your comments for further development of the policy. I think it is late for both of your suggestions, though. It is already there and started as a policy page. Having it in my page wouldn't thelp because eventually we will make it public. If there is a resistence, it will take place that time too. I want the proposal be discussed but nicely and positively. Thanks for your constructive suggestions though. Has something changed with you? Resid Gulerdem02:39, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Islamophobia edits
Since I have no substantive comment to attach this to in the article talk page (I'm suspending the discussions with Irishpunktom and Raphael1 that depended primarily on the definition of Islamophobia), I'll mention here I regard your edit of my comment as an improvement, and don't object. Nysin01:09, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Islamophobia
I'm not sure about nominating it for AfD, since Wikipedia is a lot more comprehensive than other online sources of information. However, I do think that a review of all the references provided in the article is in order, to determine if they are acceptable under Wikipedia:Reliable sources, as is specified by Wikipedia:Verifiability. We do include some very doubtful subjects in Wikipedia, like Apollo moon landing hoax accusations. There is a proposed guideline at Wikipedia:Fringe theories that seems to be moving towards determining consensus on whether these kinds of subjects are acceptable. I think nominating it for AfD should be done only if we determine that this information is not verifiable. As is pointed out on Wikipedia:Google_test:
"Given that the results of a Google test are interpreted subjectively, its implementation is not always consistent. This reflects the nature of the test being used on a case by case basis.
In some cases, articles have been kept with Google hit counts as low as 15 and some claim that this undermines the validity of the Google test in its entirety. However, in fact, this reflects on the rather uneven and subjective nature of the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion process more than on the usefulness of the Google test. The Google test has always been and very likely always will remain an imperfect tool used to produce a general gauge of notability. It is not and should never be considered definitive."
I think if you are going to nominate this for AfD, you should have all your research on the verifiability in order, since there will likely be lots of opposition. Cheers, jacoplane02:05, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there are other ways to request editor input, including Wikipedia:Peer review (although that is not appropriate for this article) and Wikipedia:Requests for comment. However, I have not had that much feedback on a number of peer reviews or RfCs I've done in the past. But a RfC is usually the first steps towards resolving conflict, and maybe there will be a lot of responses on this subject. Nominating an article for AfD does usually enure that articles get cleaned up and POV and original research is removed, even if the article itself is not deleted. Cheers, jacoplane02:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Netscott, I've voted to keep the article in the AfD, and I will now try to work some on the article to make it less POV. I hope that my contributions will be welcomed. Cheers, jacoplane19:17, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks
Hey, it's Crad again. I never thanked you for explaining everything for the whole spam thing. I can't beleive I thought that was real. Anyways, thanks again for clearing that up for me. Also I wanted to know if you could help me out here. I'm thinking about proposing an idea of a reputation system here at Wikipedia, and I was hoping you'd be my, um... what a good word for it? Hm... partner, I guess. So, how 'bout it? Or is there another 300 reasons why this is a bad Idea? Crad001002:24, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
See, I was comparing a reputation system here to one in say, an Internet forum, such as Gamewinners. This reputation system would be used to distinguish the new Wikipedians from the veterans of Wikipedia. If you are trying to get a new policy approved, would you go to a new Wikipedian who does not have as much experience here rather than someone that may also be a recent joiner, but has a good sense of what's going on in Wikipedia? I'm sure that the cream of the crop of Wikipedia probably all have a huge collection Barnstars, but It's kinda hard to get around the user stuff. I know there's probably a bunch of stuff you could out up a good arguement with, but what do you think so far? Crad001002:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Netscott/Archive-01, thank you for supporting me in my recent RfA. Although it did not succeed as no consensus was declared (final: 65/29/7), I know that there is always an opportunity to request adminship again. If and when that day comes, I hope you will once again support me. If at any time I make any mistakes or if you would like to comment on my contributions to Wikipedia, you are more than welcome to do so. Regardless of your religious, cultural, and personal beliefs, I pray that whatever and whoever motivates you in life continues to guide you on the most righteous path.
Netscott, if you try to be supportive and do not ruin my edits the things will be better. It is unacceptable that you stroke my edits. Regarding your suggestion, it is too late for it and do not work as I said before. Why people who is agains the proposal and you for example are not listing the parts you dislike? Resid Gulerdem02:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
While you didn't violate the letter of the three revert rule, you most certainly violated its spirit. Please attempt to discuss things with Resid Gulerdem further instead of using an edit war/block to make your point. I understand your frustration with the poll summary, but please use some of the dispute resolution options available to you. .:.Jareth.:. babelfish04:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If you checked, you will find that I have previously worked on that page, meaning it will be on my Watch list less I choose to remove it. --Irishpunktom\talk08:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Islamophilia
Hi,
Interesting, but this is a letter to the editor. Conceivably, if I wrote a letter making an important point, and in the process of so writing included an entirely new word coinage, that also would be published. Hence, I consider such letters evidence of informal use only. WP is not a dictionary, and does not aim to compile a list of every word used in common speech. Only notable topics (with, I'll add, an accepted common name in standard English, or their language of origin) are encyclopedic. A linguist might find this letter useful as a primary source, but it does not substantially affect the case for the notability of this topic at WP. Best wishes, Xoloz18:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If User:Dpbsmith's argument is, in your thinking, the primary reason for supporting the deletion, your choice is entirely logical. As I noted at DRV, I have two grounds for my vote, and thus am not so convinced. In the strictest sense, I should probably strike one of my two grounds in light of your evidence, but I am not that much of a stickler! :) Best wishes, Xoloz18:19, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Issues with statues
I seem to remember that you were involved in a discussion about the Buddha statues and the how and why of their destruction. Then, you'll probably find this interesting: [8]Azate23:34, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why have you decided to remove the following valid info[9]:
The Mughals were led into India by Babur who had been born in Central Asia in 1483. Babur's victory at Panipat in 1526 established the Mughal Empire and ended the reign of the Delhi Sultanate.
Babur, the new conqueror of Delhi, had been ruler of Kabul, now the capital of Afghanistan, for 20 years. Racially, Babur was a Turk with a thin stream of Mongol blood in his veins; therefore, notes Hambly (1968), the term 'Mughal' by which he and his descendants were known in India was really a misnomer. In Persian, the word Mughal, always highly pejorative among the civilized inhabitants of Iran or Mawarannahr, simply means a Mongol. It is clear, however, from Babur's writing that he considered himself a Turk. Although Babur was descended on his mother's side from Chingiz Khan's second son, Chaghatai, it is clear that this Mongol lineage meant less to him than his paternal ancestry which linked him with the great Turkish conqueror, Timur.
Babur, the new conqueror of Delhi, had been ruler of Kabul, now the capital of Afghanistan, for 20 years. Racially, Babur was a Turk with a thin stream of Mongol blood in his veins; therefore, notes Hambly (1968), the term 'Mughal' by which he and his descendants were known in India was really a misnomer.
What, of this, do you have a problem with. I did not add this info to the artcile, Tajik removed it, I re-added it, and now, for no apparent reason, you are removing it - Why?
Babbur was born in Fegana in 1483 .. Are you disputed this? - if not, why are you removing it? [10]
Babur did rule Kabul for twenty years prior, obtaining it in 1504 [11].. Are you disputing this? - if not, why are you removing it?
"Racially, Babur was a Turk with a thin stream of Mongol blood in his veins" - Have you a problem with this? Why? You are going againt the Encyclopedia Brittanica[12], not to mention a whole series of scholarly works.. Do you really dispute this? - if not, why are you removing it?
"the term ‘Mughal’ by which he and his descendants were known in India was really a misnomer. In Persian, the word Mughal, always highly pejorative among the civilized inhabitants of Iran or Mawarannahr, simply means a Mongol. It is clear, however, from Babur's writing that he considered himself a Turk." - What part of this do you disupte? - You must agree that its a word of Persian origin, for it is in the opening paragraph, written as دولتِ مغل too. That it was pejorative? do you dispute that? It was, read Baburs writing, the baburnama to see how he viewed himself a Turk.
you might be interested in this, which I posted a couple of weeks ago on the Talk:Babur page:
Babur himself considered the term 'Mongol' (مغل) to be somewhat derogatory, and it was in fact a misnomer applied by sixteenth century Europeans to the rulers of India, possibly because of memories of the earlier Mongol invasions. Thackston writes:
"History has conspired to rob Babur not only of his fame as a Central Asian sovereign over the kingdom of Kabul for much longer than he was in the subcontinent, but also of his primary identity as a Timurid [ie. a Turco-Mongol dynast from the settled regions of Turkestan] by labelling him and his successors as 'Mughals' - that is, Moghuls, or Mongols - an appellation that would not have pleased him in the least. In India the dynasty always called itself Gurkani, after Temür's title Gurkân, the Persianised form of the Mongolian kürügän, 'son-in-law', a title he assumed after his marriage to a Genghisid princess. Nonetheless, Europeans, recognising that there was some connection between Babur's house and the Mongols but ignorant of the precise relationship, dubbed the dynasty with some variant of the misnomer Moghul (Mogol, Mogul, Maghol etc.) and made the name synonymous with greatness." Wheeler M. Thackston The Babur-nama (New York) 2002 pxivi
Thackston uses the term 'Turco-Mongolian' throughout to describe Babur's ethnicity, insofar as that is relevant. He certainly spoke and wrote in Turkish. The term 'Moghul' properly refers to the ruling dynasty of Moghulistan or Jatah (roughly speaking northern Chinese Turkestan, or Dzungaria), which was ruled by descendants of Genghis Khan's son Chagatai and is hence sometimes known as the Chagatai Khanate. Its history is somewhat obscure, but the principal source is Mirza Muhammad Haidar Dughlat's Ta'rikh-e Rashidi. The author of this work was Babur's cousin, and on pxliii of Thackston's introduction to the Babur-nama he quotes from p97 of the Elias & Denison-Ross translation, which illuminates at once the unity of culture amongst the Turco-Persian Timurid elite, and the meaning given by contemporaries to the name 'Moghul'
"I heard that Yunus Khan [one of the sons of the lord of Moghulistan] was a Moghul, and I concluded that he was a beardless man, with the ways and manners of any other Turk of the desert. But when I saw him, I found he was a person of elegant deportment, with a full beard and a Tajik face, and such a refined speech and manner, is seldom to be found even in a Tajik."
Ned, I will not deny that I do not hold a very favourable opinion to Islam. Nevertheless, I attempt to source my material as well as possible, as do many other users which share my Islam-critical POV. Saw you censored IrishPunktom as well as me, so you keep maintaining standards of fair play (which I cannot say of several other Wikipedia administrators). My sincere thanks and compliments for this.
Regards, Germen.
--Germen (Talk | ContribsFile:Nl small.gif) 10:42, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Revert
Is there any reason you reverted my edits? Germen has been doing this for several months now and I sincerely think that you should read his edits before reverting. Regards, --a.n.o.n.y.mt00:32, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Netscott, please stop reverting, the information is very pov. We can't use bible.ca or any of the other small Christian personal webpages that were added any more that we can use an Islamic extremist website. And the section that says "Non-religious reasons for conversion" is definitely something that is biased and made up of nonsense on what Germen thinks are 'reasons'. --a.n.o.n.y.mt00:44, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Since when are "minsters", "Incitors", "reponded", "communique", "adherants", and "pictoral" examples of British English? If you care too look in a dictionary, you'll find that they are just wrong. And I did that WP:AN thing for you. Vkasdg01:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Alright so now you've done the WP:AN thing as well. Congratulations. The least you could do is fix the spellings you supposedly corrected, because if I were to try to correct you would revert it due to your obvious paranoid edits. Vkasdg02:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I can throw a physical block at this user, but I cannot block from wikipedia. Sorry but i am not and never will be an admin. Mike(TC)03:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Response: Thanks. Ditto for you. I'm so sick of the censorship police..its nice to find someone who disregards them. Netpari03:19, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
bwduca
Regarding the PT-141 article discussion edit:
I have re-written the approach to emphasize and expand the case. I am not par se anti-drug as you call it, in fact just the opposite. However PT-141 represents a unique public health risk that needs to be discussed. I don't think it inappropriate to solicite for grass roots organization on the wiki discussion for PT-141.
I think with my last edit that I am well within the spirit and meaning of the "discussion" page, however to satisfy your request allow me to direct you to http://www.fsd-alert.org/ by Dr. Leonore Tiefer, PhD (Psychology).
Fair enough. Hold my discussion to a higher standard. I will do some research on the topic and get back to the article with some links to respectable sources. Thanks for pointing out the Wiki best practices, etc.
Is a request for more information to be added to an article not within the bounds of what the wiki talk should be used for?--Drewlew16:01, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I maybe should have waited until you put in the last warning template, but I think admins will get the picture -- oh, he's just been blocked. There we go. Still need the link? IronDuke19:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Blanket revert
Do you understand what a blanket revert is? This was not a blanket revert, because it took the information you added and placed it in the correct area. A Blanket revert completely ignore previous edits and reverts to the older version regardless. As you can see from This comparison that is not what I did. --Irishpunktom\talk13:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Three names could be a subsection to Military, but a seperate section is messy and wrong. Further, this is yet another occasion where your first edit to an article comes less than 24 hours after I edited it last, coincidence perhaps. --Irishpunktom\talk13:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
POV like that is not acceptable in a section like that especially since the only source for those people is the United States Department of Defence or the intelligence agencies. We don't even really know if they are Muslim. Because Irishpunktom is already discussing this with you here, let's finish the discussion here. --a.n.o.n.y.mt19:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In view of your concerns for POV I've renamed the "Soldiers, figherts, Jihadists" section to "Military and Terror Related". Netscott19:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You're actually a bit wrong, there are three seperate individuals who's been convicted in three seperate countries for terrorism. Who's pushing POV now? Netscott19:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Lets keep the discussion here so I can see previous comments. Your "look whose doing something" now isn't helpful. Which three countries convicted them? If they are held by the United States then the US is the country. --a.n.o.n.y.mt19:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Which of those are blind reverts? We don't need a special section for them, they are still part of the alleged terrorist list and I didn't change the respective countries part now, so what is the concern? --a.n.o.n.y.mt19:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I never said they weren't. Are you even reading my compromise edits? All I said is that they are all alleged ones, convicted ones are already identified as compromise. We don't need to write that they are convicted and alleged too when there is already entire sentences about them. What are you trying to do? --a.n.o.n.y.mt19:50, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well my first edit only took place once so why are you still changing it? The thing is that even if they are convicted, the terorism is only alleged.Adding more disputed material every time is not the way to deal with this. I am fine with it for now. --a.n.o.n.y.mt20:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I am concerned about WP:NOT, and after looking at the article, I wasn't quite sure what the article is about and how widely accepted this term is. If the article is about a period in Spanish history, then the title "Convivencia" will be highly contentious given that it's not universally accepted to denote the period. If it is about the mutual influence of Jewish, Christian, and Muslim cultures at that place and time, then it might be interesting, but again I'm not sure as to how accepted this term is. Do you know many scholarly sources apart from Glick et al that use this term? PecherTalk19:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Policy"
Editing through open proxies (yes, I tested them and blocked them indefinitely as such) is a violation of policy (see [13]). Using various identies to gain an advantage in an edit war and circumvent the WP:3RR is also a violation of policy. One week seems more than fair in this case. — Apr. 10, '06 [03:05] <freakofnurxture|talk>
And yes, he has been previously warned about editing anonymously about the anonymous editing. Checkuser would be pointless here as he was not logged in as "Germen" when he was using the open proxies. I don't know what the edit war is really about and I don't care. I do suspect he will eventually be banned for his behavior. — Apr. 10, '06 [03:10] <freakofnurxture|talk>
Done. By the way, I'll be logging off in a few minutes (as soon as I finish referencing an article), just to give you a heads up. If I'm still around, I'll be glad to block them, otherwise I'll block them when I log in later. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 22:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've blocked him indefinitely. I originally only blocked him for 24 hours because that account had never been blocked before. I'm surprised nobody had done it before. User:Zoe|(talk)23:10, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Muslim converts list
Ehm, semantic problem with this fellow Jamal Lindsay. It is proven that he engaged in terrorist activity, nevertheless he was not convicted because Western jurisdiction does not apply for the afterlife. Do you agree for creating a third section? --Xorox10:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you in principe. The problem is that other people are much more knowledgeable in 'positive' converts than I am and I believe the task of adding positive converts is in their safe hands. I try to stay NPOV and checking sources as well as possible. What do you think about the idea of adding a new section "Suicide bombers"? --Xorox11:10, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
May be you should have more faith in the good intentions of our fellow editors. As bonafide Wikipedia contributors, they will take Wikipedia informational quality to heart and they will be pleased by our hard work, e.g. in restructuring the "not yet classified" section which was very unreadable. Please have more faith in your fellow Muslim Wikipedians, which most certainly do not meet the unjustified prejudices against Muslims.--Xorox11:29, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's very pov. We have so many sections for people who one country claims are terrorists or bombed something when it's clear that one section could fit all of them. --a.n.o.n.y.mt02:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Rumors or claims can be worth noticing, though. Check the articles, they did put some convincing arguments. --Xorox11:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I checked your references to Wikipedia guidelines. regarding those:
Middle East Forum and their Middle East Quarterly seems to be a bona fide think tank. There were claims by the Mufti of Cyprus that he has converted. There was a corroborating newspaper publication (Evening Standard, Oct. 15, 1996).
Like you, I am not intending to start an edit war. I will follow your suggestion to start a page "Rumoured converts to Islam". Is this OK with you? --Xorox11:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
any time. one question though, i'm not that familiar with the policy on open proxies. i know they aren't allowed, but i believe I read somewhere that the IP address is supposed to be unblocked after it has been determined that the proxy is closed or something like that. can you shed any light on this? thanks, --Alhutch03:54, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future. pschemp | talk03:17, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In some cases, you may not in fact be blocked, or your block has already expired. Please check the list of active blocks. If no block is listed, then you have been autoblocked by the automated anti-vandalism systems. Please remove this request and follow these instructions instead for quick attention by an administrator.
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03:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
