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 |quote = I have had EEng's talk and userpage on my Watchlist for two months because they are the most fun places on Wikipedia.
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 |quote = My friend told me that the best way to get a man would be to impress him with my ability to crush a can so forcefully that the contents shoot out, fly up in the air and land in my mouth, so every morning I do yoga, swim and then come here for 40 mins scrolling to the bottom of EEng's talk page; my right forearm looks like Popeye's now and it's done wonders for my love life.
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{{quote box|width=19em|1=Sections were archived,<br>one by one, like tears falling,<br>but saved forever. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1012388303#A_commemorative_poem]}}
[[Category:Wikipedians with red-linked categories on their user talk page]]<!--<<stolen from [[User talk:Scott Martin]]-->
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(a/o February 2, 2016: 131 stalkers, 81/89 "active" [https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk:EEng&action=info#mw-pageinfo-watchers])
[[File:Celery cross section.jpg|center|thumb|upright=0.7|a. Stalkers caught on camera; b. Why was the gardener unhappy?]]
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[[File:Bobcat2.jpg|thumb|upright=0.8|left|Wikipedians with [[red lynx]] cats on their user page]]
[[File:Champion_great_danes_from_the_Imperial_kennels,_poster_for_Forepaugh_and_Sells_Brothers,_1898.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3|center|And now, without further ado{{nbsp}}.. Ladies and gentlemen, we present to you{{nbsp}}... EEng's talk page!]]

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==🌳==
<div style="text-align:center; font-size:1.3em; color:#44AA44; margin:0.75em 0;">'''Please consider the environment before printing this page'''</div>

== Don't be a tease ==

You recently teased some trivia questions about MIT in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ani#Personal_attacks_by_User:BostonBowTie this thread] at ANI. I tried using Google, but Mr. Google and I have a love/hate relationship and he offered no assistance (maybe he's tired of being used and tossed aside). Will we ever find out what the answers are now that the thread has been closed? Or will I have another sleepless night wondering why Mr. Google refuses to answer my questions?—[[User:Isaidnoway|<font face="Times New Roman" color="blue"> '''''Isaidnoway''''' </font>]][[User talk:Isaidnoway|<font face="Times New Roman" color="blue">'''''(talk)'''''</font>]] 21:26, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2K7sV-K74 Surely] you don't imagine I'd pose a shibboleth you can look up on Google. I'd like to give him a day or two to show off his knowledge [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=876079065] before I open the secret envelope. For some reason these poseurs often think they can get away with an MIT imposture ([https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=372438168 this one] was a "professor in the MIT system, with a JD in IP and a PhD in molecular biology and supercomputing" who had [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=372598132 "armies of grad students and PhD candidates who work in my labs"]{{snd}}"I'm a computer lawyer" seems to be a common fantasy) but rarely, for some reason, Harvard. You can always tell a Harvard man, I guess. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:54, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
::I am hoarding all of the juicy secret information that I hold close to the vest, known only to the select few who attended the [[City College of San Francisco]], [[San Francisco State University]] ''and'' the glorious [[University of San Francisco]]. These Cambridge nerds like my brother-in-law must be put in their places. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 06:03, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
:::You're going to think I'm making this up, but [https://www.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/legacy_files/documents/ucsf-laurel-heights.pdf UCSF's Laurel Heights Campus] is build over the cemetery where ol' [[Phineas_Gage#Death_and_exhumation|Phineas Gage]] was originally buried. Cross my heart. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:21, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
::::As a ''very'' young man (after high school but before college), I worked at Kaiser Hospital on Geary Boulevard, where they were digging up Gold Rush era graves during relentless medical center expansions. Mind you, I was not there during the actual Gold Rush. But they needed to create a special city, [[Colma, California]], to accommodate all of the exhumed graves. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 08:04, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
:::::Yes indeed. Colma has 1800 living residents and 1.5 million dead; the town's (unofficial?) motto is "It's great to be alive in Colma!" For the full story see the source cited here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Phineas_Gage&oldid=875184912#cite_note-proctor-52], and there's a nice map of the four cemeteries that used to surround Lone Mountain here [https://hoodline.com/2014/05/calvary-cemetery-grounds-are-right-under-your-feet]; Gage was buried in "Laurel Hill Cemetery" (which was itself called simply "Lone Mountain Cemetery" until its name was changed in the mid-1860s). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:27, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

*(Attention, {{U|Isaidnoway}}...) Our ex-lecturer{{ndash}}lawyer having demurred to respond, here are the answers to the four posers posed at [[WP:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive999#Personal_attacks_by_User:BostonBowTie]]:
**(1) Immediately as you leave MIT for Harvard there's a sign that famously provides an unintentional pun when seen from just the right vantage. What is it? ''Answer: The {{small caps|metropolitan storage warehouse {{mdash}} fire proof}} next to the railroad tracks, which if you stand in just the right place reads {{small caps|rage warehouse {{mdash}} ire proof}}. Photo at [https://www.flickr.com/photos/cdevers/4456480256].  It's now student housing.
**(2) According to tradition, one MIT president had some famous last words. What were they? ''Answer: "Bituminous coal", according to legend the last words of MIT founder [[William Barton Rogers]] before he dropped dead on the commencement dais. See [http://bituminouscoal.mit.edu/about].
**(3) What MIT library makes you go around in circles? ''Answer: Barker Library, inside the [[Great Dome (MIT)|Great Dome]]; see the map here [https://libraries.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Barker-Directory.pdf].
**(4) What was kept overnight in a car trunk during the Apollo 13 emergency? ''Answer: MIT's copy of the Apollo guidance system's gyros, to verify their performance at very low temperatures. Search "trunk" in [http://news.mit.edu/2009/apollo-vign-0717]. (If you like that sort of thing at all then this book [https://www.amazon.com/Journey-Moon-History-Guidance-Computer/dp/156347185X] is outstanding.)
:[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:16, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

== Some falafel for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Falafel award.png|120px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For striking a balance between humor and insight, and for having the only page on Wikipedia visible from space {{=)|wink}} [[User:Cymru.lass|cymru.lass]] ([[User talk:Cymru.lass|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass|contribs]]) 19:40, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
|}

== Big Telecom conspiracy ==

I've just got new, faster, wizz-bang high speedier internet installed. Guess what I did to test the speed? -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy,''' <small>the dog</small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 07:57, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
:"Like my new laptop? This baby can do 10.8 EEngtalks!" [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 10:17, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
:You made a cup of coffee but managed to drink only half of it before this page [[Aeon|successfully loaded]]? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:35, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
::It isn't as fast as I would have wished. Honestly, it really is the most practical speed test I've ever found! -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy,''' <small>the dog</small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 22:07, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
:::With my [[String Driven Thing|Ye Olde Worlde UK internet]], I can usually manage a [[Death Wish Coffee|whole cafetiere]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:18, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

==Is it possible?==
Hi EE. Do you think we could dub over Steve's voice [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqZ86pJkz-M here] to say "another wrestling thread at ANI?" :-) In another bit of fun they have a festival where they [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ7lrMbjzDU reenact] that scene every year. Cheers. [[User:MarnetteD|MarnetteD]]&#124;[[User talk:MarnetteD|Talk]] 02:18, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
:
Wow! It's even better in Spanish! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:35, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

== Why do I not see you at RfA? ==

There's [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Enterprisey 2|an RfA going on right now]] and I'm wondering. Why do you never !vote in RfAs? [[User:SemiHypercube|<b style="color:#090">Semi</b>]][[User talk:SemiHypercube|<i style="color:#099">Hyper</i>]][[Special:Contributions/SemiHypercube|<u style="color:#009">cube</u>]] 01:37, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
:*(a) The fawning nominating statements make me want to vomit.
:*(b) My only criterion for adminship is that the person not be an idiot or an asshole, and if you oppose you have to say why, but you're not allowed to say someone's an idiot or an asshole.
:*(c) They're like super-serious over there and don't allow jokes.
:[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:38, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
::I'm going to nominate EEng, so he can block himself. {{fbdb}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:47, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

[[File:Impakt.jpg|200px|right|thumb|EEng becomes an admin – [[User:SemiHypercube|<b style="color:#090">Semi</b>]][[User talk:SemiHypercube|<i style="color:#099">Hyper</i>]][[Special:Contributions/SemiHypercube|<u style="color:#009">cube</u>]]]]
[[File:Phineas gage - 1868 skull diagram.jpg|thumb|EEng wrote about a guy with a large iron rod through his head. It wasn't his autobiography. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 23:56, 31 January 2019 (UTC)]]
:::{{re|Tryptofish}} I'm not sure if nominating EEng for adminship would be a good idea. I ''might'' support him if [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/EEng|this page]] gets created, but I can hardly imagine what absolute chaos would ensue if he were nominated, let alone actually be promoted. [[User:SemiHypercube|<b style="color:#090">Semi</b>]][[User talk:SemiHypercube|<i style="color:#099">Hyper</i>]][[Special:Contributions/SemiHypercube|<u style="color:#009">cube</u>]] 02:28, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
[[File:Face-crying.svg|frame|left|Disappointed!]]
*This is very disappointing. The header turned up on my watchlist, and I took it to mean "Why do I not see you as a candidate at RFA?" So I came here fully expecting to see either a good excuse for not standing from EEng, or (better) an abject apology followed by a prompt self-nomination. (I agree about the fulsome nominations, and always give extra points to the few who self-nominate. Let's have some self-reliance and independence at RFA, people. What are the admins? A mutual admiration society? An exclusive country club?) Anyway. Please do nominate yourself! I'd certainly vote for you. (Yes, I'm too proud to use that "!vote" jargon.) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 03:04, 25 January 2019 (UTC).
*:If Donald Trump can become President of the United States I guess anything's possible. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:51, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
:::I will vote for you if you make Wikipedia great again. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 03:58, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
::::''Please'' use that as a slogan and campaign theme. <b style="display: inline-block; background-color:red;color:white;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:black;text-shadow:2px 2px black;">&nbsp;MWGA&nbsp;</b> [[User:Levivich|'''<sup>Leviv</sup><sub style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(45deg);">ich</sub>''']]<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(270deg);">[[User talk:Levivich|?]] [[Special:Contribs/Levivich|!]]</span> 05:41, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
:::::Of one thing, I have no doubt: It would be the best illustrated RfA ever. Imagine the images! [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 06:06, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
::::::I know that Bishonen prefers self-nominations, but that doesn't mean that Bishzilla does too. If Bishzilla nominated EEng, I'd definitely support. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:14, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
:::::::All the bullhonky aside...HELL YEAH!!! EEng proudly wears the battlescars that were inflicted upon him by years of clueless [fill-in the blanks]. He knows what it means to be [fill-in the blanks]. He has years of experience, incredible knowledge and the wherewithal to [fill-in the blanks]. Any editor who ever doubted his ability to craft the <sup>almost</sup> perfect encyclopedic article...[fill-in the blanks]. He would be the WP symbol of the [[Phoenix (mythology)|Phoenix rising]]...the mystical [[Unicorn]]...the ultimate [fill-in the blanks] that would attract hordes of news media. <sup>And I would damn sure vote for him because [fill-in the blanks].</sup> 🦄 <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 00:48, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
{{od}}While I appreciate the compliments, I have not the slightest interest in becoming an admin{{snd}}not that there's a snowball's chance in hell of that actually happening anyway. I feel I can do more good as a member of the loyal opposition. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:14, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

== [[List of accordionists]] ==

I was just editing [[List of accordionists]] (as one does) and suddenly thought I about [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOsGt4bEUyU you], for [[List of music styles that incorporate the accordion|some reason]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:52, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
::That video is hilarious. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:46, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
:{{applause}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:58, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
*I suggest that list be compressed. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:28, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
::The problem is when it is compressed, then expanded, then compressed again, and then expanded again. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:32, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
::[[Squeeze Box (song)|"Donald's got a squeeze box, Melania never sleeps at night"]]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSYgRYlhMW4] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 23:42, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
:::"And now a word from our sponsor, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMirGKJ8yds&fbclid=IwAR0LDFPAQj7lYsWG7bcnXtaiy8m4NcA01LChyDvuc9t7ea-dRuuIprUHSdg A Stable Genius]." [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:08, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

==User conduct==
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mrspaceowl&diff=875558470&oldid=875558343 This] and [https://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/2a00:23c4:1594:aa00:2506:d78d:b826:84eb this], although I'm sure you'd already figured that out.  Even without those facts, it's still blatantly obvious isn't it?  ;)  Regards, [[User:AzureCitizen|AzureCitizen]] ([[User talk:AzureCitizen|talk]]) 22:42, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
:I guess the irony of my ANI comment didn't come across. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:06, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
::Consider that this is the internet and irony that relies on prior knowledge of a person or signals such as body language and tone of voice should not be assumed. [[User:Mrspaceowl|Mrspaceowl]] ([[User talk:Mrspaceowl|talk]]) 19:04, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
:::Well, uh, duh, Mr. Pedantic Ass, thanks for filling me in! That's a great tip! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:42, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

===Questions asked around your "snore" edit summary===

Please help to improve the article to make it more interesting as per [[WP:BLUE]] [[WP:NPOV]] etc and where your comment is simply snore, please look to expand so it is not just "snore". Particularly, articles and edits that are not just "snore" may actually address complex social issues in new and innovative ways. Can you help with this mission? [[User:Mrspaceowl|Mrspaceowl]] ([[User talk:Mrspaceowl|talk]]) 10:58, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
:"Snore" refers to the soporific effects of dealing with someone who keeps reinserting the same silly stuff against consensus. For those playing along at home, this refers to [[Talk:Farmers_and_Fishermen:_Two_Centuries_of_Work_in_Essex_County,_Massachusetts,_1630-1850#Good_Will_Hunting_reference]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:43, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
:I can testify that EEng often [[Asleep in the Back|drops off]] when conversing with me. Sometimes he seems to be  asleep for [[Asleep at the Wheel|weeks at a time]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:10, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

==="Do this again and you'll be blocked"===

On [[Farmers and Fishermen: Two Centuries of Work in Essex County, Massachusetts, 1630-1850]] you reverted to an edit with a sentence ending in a comma that removed notable information. The reason given was 'do this again and you'll be blocked'. However, you give no reason beyond this for reverting to a sentence fragment from one that makes sense, nor have you said what you consider 'silly' about information on an academic book referenced by a major motion picture which is factual beyond doubt and supported by the most credible source imaginable. You seem to be here for [[WP:NOTHERE]] in this case. [[User:Mrspaceowl|Mrspaceowl]] ([[User talk:Mrspaceowl|talk]]) 18:50, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
:Mrs. Pace Owl, your cluelessness act is nearing perfection. Feel free to correct the comma to a period. That way at least something you do will be productive. [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=next&oldid=881414128] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:58, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
:: Thank you for your tact, respect and commitment to improving Wikipedia in this case. However, I must demur, as the subclause removed seems likely the only interesting thing about the article at present, and should be restored. [[User:Mrspaceowl|Mrspaceowl]] ([[User talk:Mrspaceowl|talk]]) 19:08, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

*Is this another example of confusion over "and/or"? Logically, "do this again and you'll be blocked" says both of two things should happen: you should do this again (phrased as a command), and you will be blocked (regardless of whether you do it again). "Do this again or you'll be blocked" would make more sense. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 19:16, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
*::OED: "Introducing the predicted consequence or fulfilment of a command, or of a hypothesis put imperatively, or elliptically", giving the example {{tq|Spray with Sanfect and you're safe.}} [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:05, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
*:How about "if you wanna be blocked, just do this again"? (I think "ya schmuck" is an optional modifier  in this construction?). [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:22, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
*::Meanwhile, ''this'' schmuck has fixed the comma and some other things. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:24, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
*:::Thank you for your tact, respect and commitment to improving Wikipedia in this case. :) [[User:Mrspaceowl|Mrspaceowl]] ([[User talk:Mrspaceowl|talk]]) 19:26, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
*::::Sure, no problem (although some editors think that I should ''be'' committed). --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:33, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
*:::::<small>Hey, wasn't one of your great Presidents called [[William Howard Taft|Tact]]? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:38, 2 February 2019 (UTC) </small>
*::::::<small>No. But one of our many mediocre ones was. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:46, 2 February 2019 (UTC)</small>

== [[Murder of Rachael Runyan]] ==

Hi, can you please have a look over [[Murder of Rachael Runyan]]? Thank you in advance. [[User:Paul Benjamin Austin|Paul Benjamin Austin]] ([[User talk:Paul Benjamin Austin|talk]]) 15:35, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
:Took a stab at it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:17, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
::Stab? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:34, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
:::In all honestly the unfortunate background meaning did occur to me as I typed, but I was too lazy to backspace. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:37, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
::::That's OK. We all appreciate your cutting sense of humor. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:36, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

== Prince of Comedy ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|[[File:Barnstar of Humour.svg|100px]]|[[File:Barnstar of Humour3.png|100px]]}}

|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=next&oldid=882427637 this nugget] of comedy gold. I laughed heartily.  [[User:EvergreenFir|'''<span style="color:#8b00ff;">Eve</span><span style="color:#6528c2;">rgr</span><span style="color:#3f5184;">een</span><span style="color:#197947;">Fir</span>''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 06:55, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
|}

== A beer for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Export hell seidel steiner.png|70px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Scrolling through [[WP:Dramaboard|WP:DRAMABOARD]], appreciated [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FIncidents&diff=prev&oldid=882478096 this]. '''<span style="font-family: Arial">[[User:StraussInTheHouse|<span style="color: red">SITH</span>]] [[User talk:StraussInTheHouse|<span style="color: blue">(talk)</span>]]</span>''' 17:19, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
|}

== Once more ==
[[File:Logo iso radiation.svg|thumb|upright|Editors are warned: communicating with EEng may lead to a gruesome accident. --Tryptofish]]
Requesting your expertise as it relates to engaging the reader...please see [[Dax Cowart]].  I tweaked it a bit and was hoping you could help add the finishing touches for Phase 1 of what appears to be a potential DYK/GA/FA article. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 02:55, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
:I know this case (looks like I did some editing myself a year ago) and am happy to help. I assume by now you realize that I'm likely to whittle down the detail a bit. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:51, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
::I would not expect anything less. The article needs to be encyclopedic but in a way that the prose is engaging. What good is an article that doesn't capture an audience? I know my flaws in relation to this particular article, and I'm quite confident knowing that your exceptional writing ability  (example: [[Phineas Gage]]) is exactly what the Cowart article needs. Please...perform your magic. There are numerous RS that can be cited. I truly believe the subject of this article is worth the extra mile or two it will take to get it right. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 04:09, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
:::As you know I specialize in gruesome accidents. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:20, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
::::Didn't intend for my ulterior motives to be that obvious. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 00:20, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::Nice little Wikipedia article you have there. It would be a pity if anything happened to it. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:26, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::You might want to have a little [[WP:RFPP|protection]]. Otherwise, something might just get [[Wikipedia:Database reports/Broken redirects|broken]]. We wouldn't want that to happen, would we? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:29, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::Beginning with "a little protection", I've determined that it's much safer to not respond. I've been practicing safe hex. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 14:21, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Nowadays everyone wants to be [[:Category:Transgender and transsexual computer programmers|non-binary]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::::Nah...you must have forgotten. I'm [https://www.december.com/html/spec/color3hex1.html tri-hexual]. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 14:33, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

== Words matter  ==

I don’t mind corrections here and there in stable featured articles, but I’m troubled by your words towards other users, which are often contemptuous in tone and on the verge of xenophobic. You shouldn’t go around insulting their language skills, especially when you don’t know their background. You want to help? Help, but don’t overreact. --[[User:Lecen|Lecen]] ([[User talk:Lecen|talk]]) 05:28, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
{{od}}
''For those playing along at home, we're talking about a series of edits culminating in this one [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=next&oldid=883841103] and this one [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=next&oldid=884047638].''

Well, let's see{{nbsp}}... Here's the entirety of the section you think should carry the heading ''Decadence'':
:{{tq|1=During the 1880s, Brazil continued to prosper and social diversity increased markedly, including the first organized push for women's rights. On the other hand, letters written by Pedro II reveal a man grown world-weary with age and having an increasingly alienated and pessimistic outlook. He remained respectful of his duty and was meticulous in performing the tasks demanded of the imperial office, albeit often without enthusiasm. Because of his increasing "indifference towards the fate of the regime" and his lack of action in support of the imperial system once it was challenged, historians have attributed the "prime, perhaps sole, responsibility" for the dissolution of the monarchy to the Emperor himself.{{pb}}After their experience of the perils and obstacles of government, the political figures who had arisen during the 1830s saw the Emperor as providing a fundamental source of authority essential for governing and for national survival. These elder statesmen began to die off or retire from government until, by the 1880s, they had almost entirely been replaced by a newer generation of politicians who had no experience of the early years of Pedro II's reign. They had only known a stable administration and prosperity and saw no reason to uphold and defend the imperial office as a unifying force beneficial to the nation. To them Pedro II was merely an old and increasingly sick man who had steadily eroded his position by taking an active role in politics for decades. Before he had been above criticism, but now his every action and inaction prompted meticulous scrutiny and open criticism. Many young politicians had become apathetic toward the monarchic regime and, when the time came, they would do nothing to defend it. Pedro II's achievements went unremembered and unconsidered by the ruling elites. By his very success, the Emperor had made his position seem unnecessary.{{pb}}The lack of an heir who could feasibly provide a new direction for the nation also diminished the long-term prospects of the Brazilian monarchy. The Emperor loved his daughter Isabel, but he considered the idea of a female successor as antithetical to the role required of Brazil's ruler. He viewed the death of his two sons as being a sign that the Empire was destined to be supplanted. Resistance to accepting a female ruler was also shared by the political establishment. Even though the Constitution allowed female succession to the throne, Brazil was still very traditional, and only a male successor was thought capable as head of state.}}
While in obsolete usage ''decadence'' means a decline of any kind, in modern usage it always connotes moral decay, usually including self-indulgence, and there's no suggestion of anything like that in the text. After three go-rounds on this I guessed that you're not a native speaker of English, and as it turns [[User:Lecen|I was correct]].

I have great admiration for Dom Pedro and am glad he's well covered in WP, but featured or not these articles are prolix and repetitive. It's big of you to allow for "corrections here and there", but phrases such as
:{{tq|even taking a train journey solely with his wife}}
and passages such as
:{{tq|Upon his sons' early deaths, the Emperor's faith in the monarchy's future had evaporated. His trips abroad now made him resentful of the burden destiny had placed upon his shoulders when only a child of five.}}
show there's more than a little room for improvement. (Among other things, it's hard to imagine destiny as a child of five.)

Oh, and as it happens my boyfriend of 13 years is Brazilian so you can take your xenophobia accusations and stick them up your ''bunda''. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:57, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::{{tq|it's hard to imagine destiny as a child of five.}} My 5 year old has a classmate named Destiny, therefore everything you said here is wrong. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 13:58, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::Next you're gonna tell me your daughter's friend has [[Destiny's Child|children of her own]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:07, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm now convinced...the burden solely rests on the shoulders of destiny. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 14:27, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::If anyone really wants to see decadence, then think of EEng getting a [[Bikini waxing|Brazilian]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:33, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::My boss was standing behind me, looking at my monitors when I accidentally mouseovered that link.
::::::On another note, I actually got a brazillian, once. Just to see what it was like (and to win a bet because, come on, of course there was a bet). I still have nightmares about it. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 20:53, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry if I got you <s>into hot water with your boss</s> into trouble at work. If that was how you ''won'' the bet, I hate to imagine what the loser had to do! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:05, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::But the edit summary of your most recent edit at your user talk page is now my favorite edit summary. ;) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:07, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::::My boss thought it was funny. I was looking at a different monitor, and when he started laughing was when I noticed it. I ''really'' should know better than to let this talk page sit in my browser while I'm not paying attention to it. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 21:14, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::[[Manzilian wax]] [[User:Only in death|Only in death does duty end]] ([[User talk:Only in death|talk]]) 21:56, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::From ''that'' page: {{tq|Hair may be removed from the penis too.}} I'm wondering whose hair. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:00, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::I commend the brave souls willing to suffer that more than once. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 23:56, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

*{{xt|... stick them up your ''bunda''}} - shouldn't that be "[https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/57/5f/b6575fa3bd60b5ba89daa5c0ee37a007.jpg stick it up your Junta]"? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 14:27, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
*:That's Argentina, not Brazil, you ignorant xenophobe.{{fbdb}} [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

== I thought you might appreciate... ==
[[File:Juste_de_Juste_-_Pyramid_of_Five_Men_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg|thumb|220px|Standing on top of sitting. I think the guy (top right) with the tickle toes is a replica of EEng. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 17:33, 19 February 2019 (UTC)<br>You can't beat been a bit of [[Frot|foot frot]] can you! (oh sorry, no, am I thinking of [[pediatrics|something else]])? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:04, 19 February 2019 (UTC)]]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guy_Standing_(economist)&curid=37232034&diff=884101585&oldid=882430740&diffmode=source this]. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 15:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:I had to thank that edit just for the sheer absurdity of it. [[User:Only in death|Only in death does duty end]] ([[User talk:Only in death|talk]]) 16:09, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::Absolutely. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 16:16, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::Well, if he did become chairman the caption could read "Guy Standing in the chair". [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:27, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::::Or "Guy Standing in the "Stand Up..." chair. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 16:30, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::That's outrageous. I wouldn't take an edit like that [[Sittingbourne|sitting down]], if I were you! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:48, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::Ah, but will he leave the post in good standing? [[User:Bellezzasolo|<span style="color: #bb9900">&#x2230;</span><span style="color: #00326a">'''Bellezzasolo'''</span><span style="color: #bb9900">&#x2721;</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Bellezzasolo|<small>Discuss</small>]] 17:43, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::That's my understanding. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:54, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
[[File:Johnl1479 Leons Frozen Custard Milwaukee Wisconsin.jpg|thumb|upright=0.6|left|Custard's last stand (and see also: [http://ww3.haverford.edu/psychology/ddavis/p109g/fslip.html Freud's first slip]). {{right|-[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]]}}]]
::::::::For the sake of brevity...Standing, he rose to the occasion. (I shudder to think where this might lead us). <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 18:37, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::<small>[[Battle of the Little Bighorn|Custer's Last Stand]] (allegedly). [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:52, 19 February 2019 (UTC) </small>

{{clear left}}

== Why do you believe this? ==

May I please know why think like this of [[User:EEng#EEng's half-serious list of topics on which WP should just drop all coverage as not worth the drama]]? Do you think these are against [[WP:GNG]]? <span style="color:orange">'''THE NEW'''</span> [[User:ImmortalWizard|''<span style="color:#964B00">Immortal</span>'''''<span style="color:blue">Wizard</span>''']][[User talk:ImmortalWizard|<span style="color:green;">(chat)</span>]] 20:04, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
:Because we get an inordinate amount of traffic at ANI on these topics. As an ideal, Wikipedia treats all knowledge as worthy, but after the 100th weekly ANI thread asking the community to referee some stupid argument emanating from the "pro" wrestling walled garden, I'm bound to ask whether the loss to humanity if we simply didn't cover all those idiotic "matches" isn't outweighed by the gain in freeing editor time for building content in other topic areas.  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:15, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
::Whether you like it or not, it's not gonna happen. Don't you think you should try to look for patterns of where these conflicts come from? Maybe just alternatively over protect those pages to avoid disruption? <span style="color:orange">'''THE NEW'''</span> [[User:ImmortalWizard|''<span style="color:#964B00">Immortal</span>'''''<span style="color:blue">Wizard</span>''']][[User talk:ImmortalWizard|<span style="color:green;">(chat)</span>]] 20:26, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
:::{{tq|Whether you like it or not, it's not gonna happen}}{{snd}}<rolls eyes> What part of "half-serious list" do you not understand? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:11, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
::::[[File:Hm and sigh.ogg]] Audio to go with your 🙄. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 02:48, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::Is it too early to set up a sweepstake over how long it's going to be before somebody blocks ImmortalWizard? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 12:02, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::{{ping|Richie333}} a block for this comment? No. <span style="color:orange">'''THE NEW'''</span> [[User:ImmortalWizard|''<span style="color:#964B00">Immortal</span>'''''<span style="color:blue">Wizard</span>''']][[User talk:ImmortalWizard|<span style="color:green;">(chat)</span>]] 12:09, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::No, not for this comment, but if you carry on inserting yourself into conversations and being a bit of a pest, chances are eventually some admin's patience will snap. I don't suspect you'd be blocked for very long, and it would probably be overturned quickly, but still .... [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 12:13, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::::{{re|Ritchie333}} that has nothing to do with this page or EEng. If you want, come to my talk page instead. <span style="color:orange">'''THE NEW'''</span> [[User:ImmortalWizard|''<span style="color:#964B00">Immortal</span>'''''<span style="color:blue">Wizard</span>''']][[User talk:ImmortalWizard|<span style="color:green;">(chat)</span>]] 12:17, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::But, {{U|ImmortalWizard}}, it does have to do with your bouncing around making odd comments in random places about things you don't know anything about, and often misunderstanding the thing you're reacting to (witness this thread). Multiple people (here and at ANI) have been gently suggesting that your time at ANI would be better spent elsewhere. You are a relatively new user, and ANI is not a healthy place for anyone, most especially those without a ''lot'' of experience on the project. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:53, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::Me bouncing around does not have to do anything with ANI. I just wanted insight to your peculiar opinion. Am I the only one who stalks your userpage and make a comment about something? <span style="color:orange">'''THE NEW'''</span> [[User:ImmortalWizard|''<span style="color:#964B00">Immortal</span>'''''<span style="color:blue">Wizard</span>''']][[User talk:ImmortalWizard|<span style="color:green;">(chat)</span>]] 17:56, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::FYI, I am a member of [[WP:PW]] which I know much about. <span style="color:orange">'''THE NEW'''</span> [[User:ImmortalWizard|''<span style="color:#964B00">Immortal</span>'''''<span style="color:blue">Wizard</span>''']][[User talk:ImmortalWizard|<span style="color:green;">(chat)</span>]] 17:58, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::That counts as knowing much about nothing. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:36, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

== Navigating the museum ==

I was hoping you might consider some form of organized classification system in the Museum - easy to remember key word searches at the top of the page, and possibly use anchors? Just a thought.  I was wondering what section I might look to find a situation where someone is ridiculing another for making a mistake but then makes a bigger mistake when correcting it. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 00:31, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
*Perhaps you're looking for [[WP:ONEGOODGOOFDESERVESANOTHER]].  As for a classification system, you mean like the Library of Congress system, something like
*:AA - Sarcasm, personal
*:AB - Sarcasm, topical
*:AT - Sarcasm, theory and techniques
*:AZ - Sarcasm not otherwise classified
*:BA - Beatdowns, ANI
*:BB - Beatdowns, they were begging for it
*:BE - Beatdowns, editsummary
*:BT - Beatdowns, talkpage
:--? Or were you thinking of something more like an index in a book? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:08, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

:::Nothing complex. Just easy to remember keywords - example above would have keywords like errors, mistakes, blunders, humiliation, ridicule, etc. The keywords would fit in the 1st line under the section title. That would allow for a "find" operation. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 01:17, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
::::I hadn't realize this page was such a resource for others. Well, let's think about it. BTW you'll see some anchors if you open in edit mode. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:27, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
:::::I confused what you guys talking about? Subliminal metaphor about a wikipedia topic. Atsme approached argument different than I did. More than one way to get the right answer. [[User:Brian Everlasting|Brian Everlasting]] ([[User talk:Brian Everlasting|talk]]) 22:26, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== ANI ==

And here I was expecting [[Dick Cheney]] or [[Andy Dick]]. [[User:RickinBaltimore|RickinBaltimore]] ([[User talk:RickinBaltimore|talk]]) 21:00, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

[[File:Andy Dick 2012 Shankbone.JPG|thumb|right|upright=0.6|After]]
[[File:Anderson_Cooper_at_Tulane_University.jpg|left|thumb|upright=0.55|Before]]
:You mean here [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=886834300&oldid=886832945#dick_picks_on_the_Wikipedia_app]? I prefer Dick Classic. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:09, 8 March 2019 (UTC) <small>That Andy Dick guy looks like [[Anderson Cooper]] after a few years on meth.</small>
::I will never unsee that now. [[User:RickinBaltimore|RickinBaltimore]] ([[User talk:RickinBaltimore|talk]]) 21:22, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
=== [[Richard Nixon|Dick pic]] ===

Better than your average bear. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 07:51, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== DYK for Aaron Molyneaux Hewlett ==

Hi there -- I'm afraid I don't totally understand the message you left on my talk page. If there are issues with the sourcing I'm more likely to leave this article as-is and just aim for some other DYK options in the future. It would be super helpful if someone could look at whatever is in the actual print archive at Harvard because I think there is some primary source stuff there that might allow me to cut out Family Search as a source entirely which would be great. [[User:Jessamyn|Jessamyn]] ([[User talk:Jessamyn|talk]]) 19:50, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
:{{U| Jessamyn}}: I have a soft spot for nonacademic Harvard staff (see [[Charles Apted]] andn [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=886940258#cite_note-139]) because they're usually characters. I've tagged some of the sources for further improvement. Not for a while, but sometime in the future I'll pull up his material at Harvard Archives and see what we can do with that material. Ping me in a few months if I haven't done it yet. When we've done all we can we can get a [[WP:Good article]] review and thence to DYK, for which there are a number of good hooks -- and the photo with his equipment, cropped a bit, would be good on the main page. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:18, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

== Sorry, I forgot to add a section header ==

Saw [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZiMwE2TZYk this] and it reminded me of you. Well, one bit did. I'll leave it to your readership to decide for themselves which bit. {{smiley|3}} <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 16:55, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
:I'm ashamed to say I missed this until now. Every {{tps}} is required to click. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:51, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
::What's a couple of years between friends? It's understandably easy to miss a message or two when your letterbox encompasses the entire ground floor. {{wink}} <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 16:50, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
:::Thus proving the value of keeping some of these threads live well past their normal expiration date. I duly clicked on the link and was duly amused. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 18:56, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
::::I do worry that he might be having to climb in through his bedroom window, and he's preparing food in the bathroom on a camping stove, but it does provide some amusement on a rainy day. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 21:37, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

== toc ==

Scrolling through your talk page discussions, I was wondering why has everyone left only section headings on your talk page – and then I realised that was just the toc :D Has anyone asked you ever to consider archiving your table of contents because they took a long time scrolling to the bott? (No, I'm not asking you to do that) :D [[User talk:Lourdes|<span style="color: black; background: white">Lourdes</span>]]  01:25, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
:First time anyone's mentioned it. ;P BTW, there's a "JUMP TO BOTTOM" button at the top of the page. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:39, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
::<small>One time I accidentally clicked on EEng's talk page on my mobile. Luckily I was able to throw the phone a safe distance before it exploded. [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(45deg);position:relative;bottom:-.57em;">[[User talk:Levivich|ich]]</span> 02:02, 13 March 2019 (UTC)</small>
:::It's only 1941 kB of pure fun. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]]</sup> <big>[[User talk:Atsme |📣]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</big> 03:02, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Hey, archive your talk page! It's reaching ridiculous DGG-lengths. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 04:13, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

==ANI==
No not [[Darth Vader|Luke's dad]]. I wanted to make you aware of this thread [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Incivility from EEng]] since the person who started it failed to do so. [[User:MarnetteD|MarnetteD]]&#124;[[User talk:MarnetteD|Talk]] 03:57, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

=== ANI notice ===

[[File:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard]] regarding incivility at [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style#MOS:GENDERID_and_death]].&nbsp;The thread is [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Incivility_from_EEng|Incivility_from_EEng]]. <!--Template:ANI-notice-->. 

I don't know what the history is there, but you're not being constructive in that discussion. [[User:Nblund |<span style="background-color: #CC79A7; color:white;">'''Nblund'''</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Nblund|talk]]</sup> 03:59, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

=== March 2019 ===
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:Liz|Liz]]. I noticed that you made a comment on the page [[:Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style]] that didn't seem very [[Wikipedia:Civility|civil]]. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on [[User_talk:Liz|my talk page]]. ''This feuding between you and Fae has to stop tonight before it goes too far. Please refrain from responding to bait.'' <!-- Template:uw-npa1 --> <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 04:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

=== Notification ===

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, because there are only three separate notification sections above and you might not have noticed them all, but it seems that some people want to notify you about something that I'm sure might have been important but the thread has already closed. Maybe it was on AN, or ANI, or one of those places. Anyway, consider yourself notified of the notifications. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 07:20, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:[[Airplane!|Roger, Roger]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 10:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

=== Another notification ===
I don't know whether it's a policy change or new convention, but I'm just writing here to notify you I've posted on your talk page. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 21:29, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:Please send my your address so I can have you strangled. Thank you for your cooperation. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:47, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

=== Buddhist notification ===
There is.  [[User:NewsAndEventsGuy|NewsAndEventsGuy]] ([[User talk:NewsAndEventsGuy|talk]]) 10:47, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

=== Please comment on [[Talk:The NeuroGenderings Network#rfc_D8E7BFA|Talk:The NeuroGenderings Network]] ===

The [[WP:Feedback request service|feedback request service]] is asking for participation in [[Talk:The NeuroGenderings Network#rfc_D8E7BFA|this request for comment on '''Talk:The NeuroGenderings Network''']]. <!-- Template:FRS message --> <!-- FRS id 98916 --> [[User:Legobot|Legobot]] ([[User talk:Legobot|talk]]) 04:33, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
:You have an unerring instinct for starting trouble, Legobot. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:31, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

== You may want to archive your talk page ==
[[WP:ARCHIVE]]. --[[User:Jax 0677|Jax 0677]] ([[User talk:Jax 0677|talk]]) 20:56, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:Thanks. I'd never heard of this "archiving" concept before. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:01, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
::[[Theresa May]] may want to resign. [[Donald Trump]] may want to remove his hand from the "send tweet" button and engage brain before posting. However, we can't always get what we want. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 21:27, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:::Maybe Trump will declare my talk page a national emergency. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:46, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
::::Does no one notice this irony: one of the things that makes your talk page so big, is all the notes from people complaining that your talk page is too big? (BTW the reason you were graced with a custom "archive this" notice instead of a template is because the user got a lot of grief for templating me to archive my talk page. Even though mine is a tiny seedling compared to your magnificent tree here.) -- [[User:MelanieN|MelanieN]] ([[User talk:MelanieN|talk]]) 22:49, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::"Hey you [[Mexican Army|Mexican kids]], [[You kids get off my lawn!|get off my 1,000 mile long lawn]]!!" --[[James K. Polk|President James. K. Veto]] ([[Thornton Affair|too late for Talk)]] 23:12, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
What I want to know is why do your talk page archives cap out at under 100 threads but your main talk page is 300+? This is completely backwards and against all conventions of decency. It's like you're thumbing your nose at the universe. [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(45deg);position:relative;bottom:-.57em;">[[User talk:Levivich|ich]]</span> 16:22, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

===A very, very clever ''gothca!''===
::''From a discussion on an article talk page [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1014806597#Proposal:_Cut_all_the_text_from_article_about_his_pronouns_as_WP:UNDUE]:''
*'''Support''' for the reasons given above. [[User:BushelCandle|BushelCandle]] ([[User talk:BushelCandle|talk]]) 00:48, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 02:44, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. You can all thank me later. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:13, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*:They can only thank you if they can load your talkpage. [[User:Emir of Wikipedia|Emir of Wikipedia]] ([[User talk:Emir of Wikipedia|talk]]) 15:29, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*::<small>[[Journey to the Center of the Earth|"... surrounded by a rocky coastline that's covered with petrified '''tree trunks'''...]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 12:30, 29 March 2021 (UTC) </small>

== Devin Nunes ==

Hey EEng, per the [[WP:MINREF|policy on content requiring inline citations]] and per [[WP:BLP]] (etc.) you can't call Devin Nunes an idiot based on the source you provided (which seems to be broken, btw). Please change "idiot" to "dumb asshole" per [https://splinternews.com/devin-nunes-plays-himself-yet-again-1833415335 this source]. Cheers. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] (<sup>[[User talk:Ivanvector|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ivanvector|Edits]]</sub>) 13:24, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:Ivanvector - the source you cited is also an excellent example for [[Streisand effect]] per: {{xt|@DevinCow has jumped from having around 1,000 followers when the suit was filed to over 134,000 since the time of this writing.}} [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 14:36, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
::DevinCow must be over the moon about that. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:35, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

== April 2019 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/EEng|your contributions]] to Wikipedia. Regarding your edits to [[:Phineas Gage]], please use the [[Help:Show preview|preview]] button before you save your edit; this helps you find any errors you have made and prevents clogging up [[Special:Recentchanges|recent changes]] and the [[Help:Page history|page history]]. Below the edit box is a '''Show preview''' button. Pressing this will show you what the article will look like without actually saving it.  
[[File:Mediawiki-button-preview.png|thumb|center|760x760px|The "show preview" button is right next to the "publish changes" button and below the [[Help:Edit summary|edit summary]] field.]]

It is strongly recommended that you use this before saving. If you have any questions, contact the [[WP:HD|help desk]] for assistance.
''Using the preview button can help avoid embarrassing mistakes ([[Special:Diff/890329926|diff]], [[Special:Diff/890330175|diff]]). You may wish to try making practice edits to [[User:EEng/sandbox|your sandbox]] first, only making the edit to an actual article once you feel sure you know what you are doing. [[WP:ADVENTURE|The Wikipedia Adventure]] may help you learn these basic skills. As a reminder, please do not refer to edits as "dummy" per [[WP:CIVIL]]–such language should be reserved for editors only. I understand today is your favorite day; let's try not to ruin it with poor editing.'' <!-- Template:uw-preview --> <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 04:33, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

<div class="user-block" style="min-height: 40px">[[File:Ambox humor.svg|40px|left|alt=This is what a joke looks like.]] <div style="margin-left:45px">You have been '''[[WP:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing for a period of '''one [[picosecond]]'''. Once the block has expired, your peers are welcome to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=890478960&oldid=890478770 make slightly more useful contributions]. <br/>In addition, your ability to edit your talk page has ''also'' been [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EEng&oldid=890526902 dunked on]. If you think there are literally any reasons for being unblocked, nevermind.</div></div>
<b style="background:#0000ff;font:Helvetica;padding:0.4em;font-size: 80%;border-radius: 2em;margin: 0.25em;">[[User:Cards84664|<span style="color: white;">Cards84664</span>]]</b> [[User talk:Cards84664|(talk)]] 21:39, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

:Oh, please...it's too difficult to separate the April fools day blocks from the real ones. They get lost in the latter. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 00:24, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

== When is it safe? ==

Is it safe to presume the biological gender of a certain IP based on their [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Civility&diff=next&oldid=889466301 edit summary]? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 03:36, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
:Ask Fae. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:12, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Is it safe  [[User:Bhagyesh Pethe|Bhagyesh Pethe]] ([[User talk:Bhagyesh Pethe|talk]]) 14:54, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
:Better use protection. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:32, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
::Especially when (as in this case) dealing with genitalia that have been rolling on the ground. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 23:51, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
:::What??? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:38, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
::::He said, {{tq|q=y|Especially when (as in this case) dealing with genitalia that have been rolling on the ground.}} <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 02:46, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::I hesitate to reproduce the revdelled text but it was related to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo7DdUY9rto this] (do I need to say NSFW?) —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 02:50, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
::::::Who's on first? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:06, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

== I presume this is a joke ==

[https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=890665893].  I did chuckle a little.  --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 13:36, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
:No joke. Coy circumlocutions for boomerangs are verboten. You're right on the edge. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:50, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
::Dude, I crossed the edge years ago.  If you're only getting to the edge now, you've got some catching up to do.  --[[User:Jayron32|<span style="color:#009">Jayron</span>]][[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#090">''32''</b>]] 14:22, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

== Upage ==

Hi, I appreciate the nice humor on your pages. But I noticed the picture of Donald Trump, and the picture further down of a finger with text about Donald Trump, However I would like to point out that the pictures and the captions of Trump were offensive to me, and could be too with other users. --[[User:Thegooduser|<span style="color: teal">'''Thegooduser'''</span>]] [[User talk:Thegooduser|<span style="color: maroon">'''Life Begins With a Smile :)'''</span>]] <span style="color:red">🍁</span> 02:52, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
[[File:The finger.jpg|thumb|right|upright=0.4|[[American Sign Language|ASL]] for {{nobr|''Donald Trump''}}<small>... [[Buttons (The Pussycat Dolls song)|"my button's bigger than your button"]]</small>]]
:I take it you're talking about images such as the ones shown here.
[[File:Donald-trump-secim-840x420.jpg|thumb|left|Donald Trump with shithole in open position]]
[[File:Vladimir Putin & Donald Trump at APEC Summit in Da Nang, Vietnam, 10 November 2017.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3|The holidays are almost upon us... '''''Treason's{{nbsp}}Greetings!''''']]
[[File:Hippopotamus_-_04.jpg|thumb|center|upright=1.2|What Trump looks like when the virtual reality projector is turned off]]

I appreciate the friendliness of your message, but predict that in five years you will be wondering how you could have ever found such things even remarkable. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:13, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
{{clear}}
*This is uniformly excellent, clever, and dare I say genre-savvy. Post more of these, please. Thanks.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 17:03, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
::The "virtual reality projector turned off" image is quite clearly a picture of [[The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin|Reggie Perrin]]'s mother in law. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 10:15, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

== A quickie ==
[[File:How to slap someone throught the internet (smart screen)-3580144.png|thumb|250px|A peek at EEng's research. <small>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</small>]]
FYI...if you had clicked on [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/383580093234196065/ pointy] in the caption of my Madonna picture at ANI you would have had a conical experience...or perhaps you did. I tried to find a similar image at Commons but never thought to keyword "cone". Good find. [[File:Thumbs_up_icon.svg|x20px|=b]] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 02:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
:Conical, comical -- I get it! My 9-y.o. nephew, who has been learning about polygons in school, told me a joke last week. "I was taking the bus to Harvard SQUARE but I got lost because I got on the RHOMBUS. Get it? WRONG BUS." My nephew's wicked smaht. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:04, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
::A funny bone tickler indeed, although not my intended joke. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:52, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

== Wow ==

Your userpage. [[Special:Contributions/108.26.206.64|108.26.206.64]] ([[User talk:108.26.206.64|talk]]) 00:54, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
:Yeah, I get that a lot. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:56, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Barnstar of Humour Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thanks for all you do here on Wikipedia!  [[User:Thegooduser|<span style="color: teal">'''Thegooduser'''</span>]] [[User talk:Thegooduser|<span style="color: maroon">'''Life Begins With a Smile :)'''</span>]] <span style="color:red">🍁</span> 23:40, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
|}
:Thanks, {{U|Thegooduser}}, I appreciate it! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:11, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
::The other thing I LOVE about your page and talk page, is that it kills my 2.4G network, and I need to use 5G network in order to avoid kills to my wifi :-P --[[User:Thegooduser|<span style="color: teal">'''Thegooduser'''</span>]] [[User talk:Thegooduser|<span style="color: maroon">'''Life Begins With a Smile :)'''</span>]] <span style="color:red">🍁</span> 00:51, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

:::{{Buttinsky}} I just read "kills my 2.4G" and it reminded me that I forgot to share [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9BjJkqybz8 this link] with you, EEng - it's the companion to "clean underwear" in the ''Museum of I Shouldn't Laugh but I Did.'' [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:19, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

::::Isn't 2.4G some sort of bra size? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 22:40, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

== Airport malaria and portraits of the Queen ==

When you (and your merry band of talk page stalkers) have a mo, could you nip over to [[User talk:Whispyhistory#Flies and mosquitoes]] and suggest some fun hooks for [[airport malaria]] and [[Queen Elizabeth II (painting)]]. Please excuse me from not having a sense of humour today, I have chronic ANI fatigue. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 22:21, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
:Refer to EEng's research in the image above. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:49, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

=== A barnstar for you! ===

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Barnstar of Humour Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for your ideas and attitude [[User:Whispyhistory|Whispyhistory]] ([[User talk:Whispyhistory|talk]]) 22:11, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
|}

*Thank you. I live to serve. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:13, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

== Notre-Dame de Paris fire: Difference between revisions ==

You make me laugh ~ mitch ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|Mitchellhobbs]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 01:13, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
:[https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=893104874#A_plea ''Vive la différence!''] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:24, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Notre-Dame_de_Paris_fire&diff=next&oldid=893358254 Revision as of 20:57, 20 April 2019 EEng<br>
I was just seeing if you were paying attention I knew it wouldn't lasted long [[User:Mitchellhobbs|Mitchellhobbs]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 22:48, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

*https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Notre-Dame_de_Paris_fire&diff=893648089&oldid=893646972 Latest revision as of 18:40, 22 April 2019<br>188.108.153.142 moved it ~ but I think it flows well there ~ what do you think? [[User:Mitchellhobbs|Mitchellhobbs]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 18:47, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
::I think the IP is preoccupied with making images in a vertical stack all have the same width, which is a good thing in general, especially when they're vertically adjacent, but not so important if there's substantial distance between them. IAnyway, it's OK either way -- too early to spend much time on layout because the article will grow a lot over the next few weeks and then it will become clearer where to place the images. See my comment here [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=893630381]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:58, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

=== A fitting tribute on [[Good Friday]], perchance. ===

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Pareidolia stain on wall as map of France.jpg|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Protector from [[Perceptions of religious imagery in natural phenomena|Heretical]] [[Pareidolia]]'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | You saved us from misinterpreting the [[Notre-Dame de Paris fire|fires of Notre Dame]].<br>
Herewith, you receive the Map of France.<br>
Or you can see {{cite news |url=https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/beeville-man-sees-jesus-in-breakfast-taco/ |title=Beeville Man Sees Jesus in Breakfast Taco |work=[[Texas Monthly]] |date=January 21, 2013 |first1=Kevin |last1=O'Keefe |accessdate=April 19, 2019 |quote=Ernesto Garza said that the image of the Christian Messiah in his tortilla was "a miracle."}}<br>
Remember: don't eat the [[Icon]].
 <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 19:01, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
|}
*Glad to see you again, and thank you. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:41, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
::I note you are still on patrol.  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 01:41, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
:::Well, you know how I get once I taste blood. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:53, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

== Should all instances of 'tbd' in this article be changed to 'TBD'? ==

Hi, in the article [[List of aircraft carriers in service]], the abbreviation 'tbd' is always used with all lowercase letters, instead of 'TBD' in all caps. They can be seen in the [[List of aircraft carriers in service#Carriers ordered|Carriers ordered]] and [[List of aircraft carriers in service#Other planned carriers|Other planned carriers]] sections. I propose changing them all to 'TBD' as this form is much more commonly used and is widely considered the correct format. <b>[[User:JackintheBox|J<small><small>ACKINTHE</small></small>B<small><small>OX</small></small>]]</b> • <i><b><sup><small>[[User talk:JackintheBox|<span style="color:#006400">TALK</span>]]</small></sup></b></i> 13:00, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
:So, changing tbd to TBD is Tbd?  --[[User:A D Monroe III|A&#8239;D&#8239;Monroe&#8239;III]]<sup>([[User talk:A D Monroe III#top|talk]])</sup>  17:28, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
::That [[Jeremy_Bentham#Death_and_the_auto-icon|remains to be seen]]. In answer to the OP's query: personally I'd use all caps, but if there's resistance to change I don't expect this is a hill worth dying on. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:17, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:ANI flu]] ==

I think it's high time we had an essay on this. Feel free to add humour to taste. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 11:50, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
:Surely you mean "humor to tasteless"? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:21, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

== Your edit summary ==

MOSbloat = The grossest thing I've heard today. [[User:Primergrey|Primergrey]] ([[User talk:Primergrey|talk]]) 01:16, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
:Well then my nascent essay [[WP:MOSBLOAT]] will most certainly make you lose your lunch. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:01, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
::I think it belongs in The Museum as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=897014246 "meritorious"] and perhaps even a "behavioral trendsetter" but most certainly as a remedy. {{fbdb}} [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 18:52, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
::And if ''that'' doesn't, [[Ascites|''this]] will! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:00, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
:::[[Southern Tenant Farmers Union|STFU]]?? Ah yes, we know a song about that, don't we, boys and girls... : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggh3IdcCdck]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:09, 22 May 2019 (UTC) <small>Note: [[Joji (musician)|other]], equally offensive [[Aminé (rapper)|YouTube]] STFU [[Julie Bergan|song memes]] are readily [[Mansionz|available]].</small>
::::Well, poopers. I added the right link but to the wrong discussion (although it could relate to bloat) so I just fixed it...even worse, I was thinking bloat referenced [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=898249575&oldid=898205847 this] discussion, so EEng's comment has widespread merit, broadly construed. Hmmm, me thinks I may be in [[WP:ONEGOODGOOFDESERVESANOTHER]] territory. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:10, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

== Archiving mayhem ==

I was wondering how [[Special:Diff/885095741/885457942|this]] [[Special:Diff/885307042/885457856|archiving]] happened, but {{u|Guy Macon}} [[Special:Diff/890825087|beat me]] to fixing it. It turns out [[Special:Diff/881199800|this]] was the culprit.
[[Special:Diff/899735312|Fixed now]]. [[User:Retro|<span style="color:red">Retro</span>]] ([[User talk:Retro|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]] &#124; [[Special:Contribs/Retro|<span style="color:blue">contribs</span>]]) 00:30, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

*{{U|Guy Macon}}, editor {{U|Retro}} says you beat him. We try to avoid violence here at Wikipedia, so please refrain from beating other editors. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:50, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

::[[:Category:Wikipedians who beat other Wikipedians]]?  —[[User:PaleoNeonate|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#44a;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px DimGray;">Paleo</span>]][[User talk:PaleoNeonate|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#272;text-shadow:2px 2px 3px DimGray;">Neonate</span>]] – 00:59, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

:::Well, I have been called a shill for pretty much every company, service and product mentioned at [[User:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased.]] (and a paid shill for the "Twisty Bulb Cartel" when I mentioned that compact fluorescent bulbs use less energy than incandescent bulbs, but LED bulbs use less than either), So a special "when did you stop beating your fellow Wikipedia editors?" award seems like it would fit right in on my shelf... --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 01:56, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

== [[Notre-Dame de Paris fire]] ==

EEng ~ thanks once again for your help and your humor ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|Mitchellhobbs]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 03:07, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
:Thank goodness ''someone'' still has a sense of humor. [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=901831312] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:00, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
::<small>Ironic. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 11:48, 18 June 2019 (UTC)</small>
:Thanks again ~ mitch ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|Mitchellhobbs]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 15:08, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

== An encouraging word ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Zubron2.jpg|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Moo v along'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Timely and pithy food for thought,  Well done! <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 01:25, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
|}
This undeserved praise regards this modest edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=902874720]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:49, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=903104488#Canvassing_and_other_disruptive_behavior_by_7&6=thirteen Permalink -- see the image]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:42, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

== [[WP:FRAMBANNEDSANFRANDAMNEDARBCOMJAMMED]] ==

=== Wikipedia:SANFRANJANBANSFRAM listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Wikipedia:SANFRANJANBANSFRAM]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Wikipedia:SANFRANJANBANSFRAM'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 June 29#Wikipedia:SANFRANJANBANSFRAM|the redirect discussion]] if you wish to do so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> <span class="nowrap"><span style="border:2px solid; font-family:Trebuchet MS;"><span style="background:#EE0000">[[User:Oshawott 12|<span style="color:#fff;">Oshawott 12</span>]] ==(</span>)== [[User talk:Oshawott 12|Talk to me!]]</span></span> 01:30, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

====Just to be clear====
Everyone is very busy discussing where to draw the line on being rude and unpleasant, but making lame jokes is ''completely unacceptable''. [[User:Triptothecottage|Triptothecottage]] ([[User talk:Triptothecottage|talk]]) 03:28, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
:I think it's the lameness that offends. These are highly cultured people, after all. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:56, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
::What is the meaning of it? [[User:KoopaLoopa|KoopaLoopa]] ([[User talk:KoopaLoopa|talk]]) 06:18, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
:::Nvm I think I figured it out - San Fran's Jan Bans Fram. [[User:KoopaLoopa|KoopaLoopa]] ([[User talk:KoopaLoopa|talk]]) 06:20, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
:::All this time we never knew you were [[Pearls Before Swine (comics)|Pastis]]. Your secret's safe with me.&nbsp;  [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]), [[WP:admin|admin]], [[meta:Global renamers|renamer]] 16:13, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
::::Watch your step lest T&S disappear you for outing me. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:24, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
:::::[[Gulag]]-apedia. I hear Siberia is lovely this time of year.&nbsp;  [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]), [[WP:admin|admin]], [[meta:Global renamers|renamer]] 18:44, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
::::::''[[One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich|One Year in the Life of Ifram Denisovich]]''. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:53, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Hello everybody. I read that book about fifty years ago at my boarding school. It has come flooding back. particularly the bit about the bread and the ciggy for goodness sake. -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy,''' <small>the dog</small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 21:26, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
{{{icon|[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]]}}} Welcome to Wikipedia. Since this is clearly your first time editing and I am in no way [[WP:DTTR|templating a regular]], we hope you will choose to stay here and contribute positively. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like you to [[Wikipedia:Assume good faith|assume good faith]] while interacting with other editors, which you did not do on [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 June 29#Wikipedia:SANFRANJANBANSFRAM|the redirect discussion for Wikipedia:SANFRANJANBANSFRAM]] by assuming I am creating a hostile environment by mocking people with peanut allergies. Please remember that even peanuts have feelings, and take a look at the [[Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome to Wikipedia|welcome page]] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. [[Passive-aggressiveness|Thank you and have a nice day]]. {{fbdb}} --[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 18:42, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
:EEng's talk page gets all the nuts. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:57, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
::"[[Milkshake (song)|My T&S BANFRAM brings all the nuts to the yard....]]": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AwXKJoKJz4] etc. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:36, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Just a heads up that {{noping|Ivanvector}} supervoted and speedy deleted the redirect per G10. [[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 23:26, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
::Seriously considering my future here.&nbsp;  [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]), [[WP:admin|admin]], [[meta:Global renamers|renamer]] 01:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

===Next?===
Is [[WP:CANFRAMFANSBANSANFRAN]] next on your list? [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 10:22, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

:[[WP:FRAMBANNED,SANFRANDAMNED,ARBCOMJAMMED]] —/[[User:Mendaliv|'''M'''<small>endaliv</small>]]/<sup><small>[[User talk:Mendaliv|2¢]]</small></sup>/<sub><small>[[Special:Contributions/Mendaliv|Δ's]]</small></sub>/ 10:36, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::^^^^ Definitely the best yet. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:51, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
::[[Whodunit|FRAM FRAMED, JAN NAMED, ARBCOM AIMED]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 10:49, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

:::[[Black Betty|WHOA BLACK BETTY, BAN FRAM, JAN]].--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 17:32, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

::::"I have gotta Admin name of [[The Edsels|FRAMA-BANA-JANA-LAMA-DING-DONG]]": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6JbemSdORo] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:38, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

===[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Wikipedia:CANSANFRANBANFRAM?]]===
[[File:Information icon4.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
{{Quote box|quote=<p>If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read [[WP:Your first article|the guide to writing your first article]].</p><p>You may want to consider using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] to help you create articles.</p>|width=20%|align=right}}
A tag has been placed on [[:Wikipedia:CANSANFRANBANFRAM?]] requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[WP:CSD#G4|section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because the page appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a [[Wikipedia:Deletion debates|deletion discussion]], such as at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|Articles for deletion]]. When a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after a discussion, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time. 

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Wikipedia:CANSANFRANBANFRAM?|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the {{Querylink|Special:Log|qs=type=delete&page=Wikipedia%3ACANSANFRANBANFRAM%3F|deleting administrator}}, or if you have already done so, you can place a request [[WP:RFUD|here]]. <!-- Template:Db-repost-notice --><!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> [[user:Anne drew Andrew and Drew|<i style="background:#185;color:#fff;font-weight:bold;font-size:.9em;padding:2px 5px;">Anne&nbsp;drew</i>]] ([[user talk:Anne drew Andrew and Drew|talk]]) 21:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:And speedily declined. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:03, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:(edit conflict) Speedy declined. Not the same as the version that was deleted previously. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 22:05, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::<small>Sorry, Brad, for speedily edit conflicting you! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)</small>
=== Wikipedia:CANSANFRANBANFRAM? listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
{{shortcut|WP:ANNEDREWGETACLUE}}
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect [[Wikipedia:CANSANFRANBANFRAM?]]. Since you had some involvement with the ''Wikipedia:CANSANFRANBANFRAM?'' redirect, you might want to participate in [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 July 1#Wikipedia:CANSANFRANBANFRAM?|the redirect discussion]] if you wish to do so. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[user:Anne drew Andrew and Drew|<i style="background:#185;color:#fff;font-weight:bold;font-size:.9em;padding:2px 5px;">Anne&nbsp;drew</i>]] ([[user talk:Anne drew Andrew and Drew|talk]]) 22:08, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

*WTF? The moon must be in clueless. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

::"[[Can (band)|CAN]][[June Moon|JUNEMOON]][[Moonshake (song)|SHAKE]][[Spoon (Can song)|SPOON]][[Malcolm Mooney|MOONEY]][[Soon Over Babaluma|SOON]]"?? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:26, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
:::How much rue do Anne drew Andrew and Drew rue if Anne drew Andrew and Drew do rue what they do? —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 22:35, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::Moo. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
::::<small>Yes, [[How much wood would a woodchuck chuck|I know]]. I just didn't feel up to [[Feather-plucking|the challenge]]. Congrats. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:42, 1 July 2019 (UTC) </small>
::::He's a foo. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:22, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

*Partial list of images needing deletion because they attack or disparage:

[[File:X_ray_specs_on_jimbo.jpg|thumb|left|upright=0.7|Delete: Implies Jimbo invades people's privacy and looks at their naughty bits]]
[[File:Lord_Jimbo_cropped.jpg|thumb|right|upright=0.8|Delete: Presents Jimbo as an autocrat]]
[[File:Creation of jimbo.jpg|thumb|center|upright=1.3|Delete: Implies Jimbo engages in group sex]]
[[File:JimboTheWhale.jpg|thumb|left|upright=0.7|Delete: Presents Jimbo as a seagoing mammal]]
[[File:Jimbo_No_Head.JPG|thumb|right|upright=0.8|Delete: Implies Jimbo has no brains]]
{{clear}}
[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:41, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
:[[Suffragette City|Wham Fram Thank You Jan]]? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 08:59, 2 July 2019 (UTC) <small>Note: no snowflakes were intentionally harmed in the construction of this piped link.</small>
:::^^^^ This one is quite good too. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:57, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
::"Hey man, well she's a total blam-blam"!&nbsp;  [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]])

===Greetings from [[Green Eggs and Ham|Dr. Seuss]]===
::''Improvements and extensions welcomed!''

I AM FRAM. FRAM I AM.
<br>THAT FRAM-I-AM! THAT FRAM-I-AM! I DO NOT LIKE THAT FRAM-I-AM!
<br>WOULD YOU LIKE A BAN OF FRAM?
<br>DOWN ENWIKI'S THROAT TO RAM?
<br>WOULD YOU BAN HIM FOR A YEAR?
<br>ISSUE RATIONALES UNCLEAR?
<br>PERHAPS TRANSPARENCY YOU FEAR?

==Style==
Amazing looking user page! Thank you. [[User:L'Origine du monde|<span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC;font-size:15px; text-shadow: 0 0 .2"><b><font color="red">♥ L'Origine du monde ♥]]</font></b></span> <sup><font color="blue">♥ [[User talk:L'Origine du monde|Talk]]♥ </font></sup> 00:34, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
:Tu sais ~ Je pense que je me souviens de toi quand le monde a été créé ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 01:32, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
::WTF? (= "What the French?") [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:55, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
::LOL ~ you had me scared ~~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 03:04, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

==BLOCKED==
I was just about to block you for being so fancy.  The Rambling Man ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|REJOICE!]]) 18:34, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
:Nice [[The Puffy Shirt|shirt]], though. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:47, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
::I hereby dub thee Sir Less-filling-with-no-taste.18:59, 22 July 2019 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dlohcierekim|contribs]]) </small>
:::<small>No usurpers, please... [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU|talk]]) 12:27, 9 August 2019 (UTC) </small>
::::It seems to me there's a good pun on ''usurpers'' in there somewhere, but it's just not coming. Below is the best I could do. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 12:48, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
[[File:Coco_Eating_His_Soup,_1905,_by_Pierre-August_Renoir_(1841-1919)_-_IMG_7187.JPG|thumb|left|upright=0.6|Uslurpers!]]
[[File:PlanNine_08.jpg|thumb|Ulurkers!]]
[[File:Burp.opus|thumb|center|Uburpers!]]

{{clear}}
:::Ah, not just [[Fray Bentos (food brand)|tasteless-filling-with-no-Sirloin]], then. Thanks. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:56, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
::::E-e-e-e-w-w-w-w!&nbsp;  [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]) 16:05, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
::::Not a Brit, but that canned meat pie looks like low-grade dog food.  Woof.  [[User:Jip Orlando|Jip Orlando]] ([[User talk:Jip Orlando|talk]]) 13:42, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::"Women In Red, fill your boots": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHl9SA7MkP0 enjoy]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:11, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

=== 24 hour block ===

Hi, EEng. I have blocked you for 24 hours as described [[Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Block_of_User:EEng]]. Would you kindly commit to not restoring the material and we can put this behind us immediately? [[User:Haukurth|Haukur]] ([[User talk:Haukurth|talk]]) 18:38, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

:I apologize for posting the ANI message first and this message second. It would have been better form to do it the other way around. [[User:Haukurth|Haukur]] ([[User talk:Haukurth|talk]]) 18:50, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

*I have lifted the block as per the ANI thread. Looks like you were right that this would not fly and I apologize. [[User:Haukurth|Haukur]] ([[User talk:Haukurth|talk]]) 18:56, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
[[File:Musée_de_la_Chasse_et_de_la_Nature_-_Trophy_Room_2.jpg|thumb|But don't forget to send a photo for the wall of my trophy room.{{right|-[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]]}}]]
:::Apology accepted, and you are to be commended for not digging in your heels. I will be commenting gently (relatively gently, anyway) at ANI in a bit. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:10, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
:::'''For the record: [[WP:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1014#Block_of_User:EEng]]'''. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:45, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

::It would have been within policy to do it the other way round? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

:::Damn, I thought we would have a little break :P - <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">[[User:FlightTime|<span style="color:#800000">'''FlightTime'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:FlightTime|<span style="color:#FFD700">'''open channel'''</span>]])</small></span> 19:25, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

::::Damn from me too. I log out for a few hours to do some errands, and I miss all the fun! Go clean out your garage. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:26, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

:ugh ` hmm ~ ugh ~ ugh ~  never mind ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 17:02, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

=== For your collection ===
{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:WTF-Blocks.png|thumb|Stackable WTF blocks]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''You've been around the WTF block'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Remember how much fun you had playing with blocks as a kid?  Now that you're <s>a mature</s> an adult, you can collect blocks with adult letters, and they're not only stackable, they're collectable.<br/> How many more to equal the height of the [[Empire State Bldg]]?  {{P|grin}} [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 20:13, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
|}
{{clear}}

=== I hope... ===

...that your 24 minutes in the wilderness weren't too unpleasant. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 23:27, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
:...What you need, EEng, is a [[Wooly Willy|good disguise]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 23:02, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

== Excellent work ==

I don't think your unmitigated torrent of genius content gets enough credit around here. Keep up the good work. [[User:Cosmic Sans|Cosmic Sans]] ([[User talk:Cosmic Sans|talk]]) 02:03, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

:I would like to believe you're talking about
:*[[Phineas Gage]] or
:*[[Lionel_de_Jersey_Harvard]] or
:* [[Widener_Library]]  or
:*[[Sacred_Cod]] or
:* [[John_Harvard_(statue)]],
: but I fear you're actually talking about [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=910433008 casting of aspersions]. See below. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:33, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
{{multiple image
 |align=center
 | direction         = horizontal
 | total_width       = 290
 | caption_align     = center
 | image1            = Leer - Neue Straße - Garrelscher Garten - Kommen und Gehen 08 ies.jpg
 | image2            = SnowyandHazy.jpg
 | header            = Today's puzzle: What could this mean???
}}
{{collapse top|title=Unhide for answer}}
{{multiple image
 | direction         = horizontal
 | total_width       = 290
 | caption_align     = center
 | image1            = Leer - Neue Straße - Garrelscher Garten - Kommen und Gehen 08 ies.jpg
 | image2            = SnowyandHazy.jpg
 | caption1           = Casting of ass
 | caption2           = persians
}}
{{collapse bottom}}

*I was wondering, "How did he find a picture of a butt anyway?" So I looked, and, ''of course'' Commons has a [[:c:Category:Female buttocks in sculpture]], one of several sub-categories of [[:c:Category:Female buttocks in art]], which in turn is a sub-category of [[:c:Category:Female buttocks]], which–''of course''–has hundreds of examples. Behold: the sum of human knowledge. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 02:12, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

== you ==

[continue discussion with you]
[[File:Antonio Contin - Ponte dei sospiri (Venice).jpg|thumb|upright=1|perhaps this is what you  are looking for?-- <b>[[User:Dlohcierekim|<span style="color:black">Dloh</span>]][[User talk:Dlohcierekim|<span style="color:red">cier</span>]][[Special:UserRights/Dlohcierekim|<span style="color:gold">ekim</span>]]  </b>]]
::I tend to state what is invisible to others and not deliberately being obtuse, your "innocent" attempts at humour are not free of disruptive consequences and doubling down when a joke is not flying, I think, shows a lack of appreciation for what is and is not valued humour. How many users might attempt to remove you attempts at wit, tendentiously restored with a "i have no idea why you did that?" edit summary before you take stock of the value of inclusion. Do you want an example, your "trail of tears" quip a little while ago. ~ [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|cygnis insignis]] 16:03, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

:::''For those playing along at home, this thread continues the inscrutable discussion at [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=910956925#From_here_on]''
:::"Trail of tears"??? What in the fuck are you talking about? No, seriously, we really want to know. Every stalker here awaits breathlessly a diff. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:57, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
::::I'm a talk page stalker and I approve this message. — [[User:JFG|JFG]] <sup>[[User talk:JFG|talk]]</sup> 18:05, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
:::::Huh? Trail of tears? I'm telling ya, EEng - it's gotta be the full moon. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 19:09, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
:::We're still waiting for your diff so we can know what you're talking about when you speak of my {{tq|"trail of tears" quip a little while ago}}, {{U|Cygnis insignis}}. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:46, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
::::No answer. Huh. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:51, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

== Taylor Swift ==
[[File:Taylor_Swift_039_(18117627828).jpg|thumb|upright=0.75|Either she's going for a kind of low-budget Madonna look, or someone locked the door to her dressing room while she was in the toilet.{{right|-[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]]}}]]

You have opinions about writing, right? What do you think of the [[Taylor Swift]] [[User_talk:Iridescent#Taylor_Swift|lead]]? <small>(Hey, at least I'm not asking you to comment on abortion.)</small> [[User:Haukurth|Haukur]] ([[User talk:Haukurth|talk]]) 09:13, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
:In copyediting I leave the lead to very last, after I've done (and therefore read) the rest of the article, so I can't say much at this point except that ''eponymous'' and ''buoyed'' and ''spawned'' and (beyond the lead, but an especial peeve of mine) ''accolades'' make me want to vomit, and factoids such as "youngest person to single-handedly write and perform a number-one song on the Hot Country Songs chart" and "first act to have four albums sell one million copies within one week in the U.S." are ridiculous. But you gotta love that she {{tq|spent her early years on a Christmas tree farm}}. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 10:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
[[File:WikiProject Barnstar Hires.png|thumb|left|upright=0.6|I present EEng with the first annual '''EEng Award''' for outstanding accomplishments in the field of eponymous accolades. [[User:Haukurth|Haukur]] ([[User talk:Haukurth|talk]])<br/>I'll get you for this, {{U|Haukurth}} -[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]]]]
[[File:Paul_Bunyan_Statue_in_Portland_Oregon_in_2004.jpg|thumb|upright=0.5|Dad]]
{{stack|[[File:A_Maine_Logging_Camp.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Childhood home]]}}
{{stack|[[File:Banknote_vignette_showing_woodsmen_felling_trees_in_a_snowy_forest_MET_DP837984.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|Taylor helps with the daily chores]]}}
{{clear}}
::'Eponymous' is for beginners - ''[[Kylie Minogue|mononymously]]'' is what the cool kids are putting in their FAs. [[User:Haukurth|Haukur]] ([[User talk:Haukurth|talk]]) 18:00, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
:::''Monotonously'' is more like it. I love it that the first outbound link in the article on this Kylie Minogue creature takes you to a page whose lead image is Plato. Her own lead image shows "Minogue performing at The Queen's Birthday Party"{{snd}}I can imagine Queen Liz thinking, "I'm just glad Winston isn't alive to see this."  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:15, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
::::EEng, you are getting too snobby even for me here, and that's pretty hard to do! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:31, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
:::::{{tq| It is recognised as her signature song and was named "the catchiest song ever" by Yahoo! Music.}}{{snd}}Right. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:41, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::OK, now I'm curious. Where does (did) it say that? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:48, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
:::::::The lead (or ''lede'', you snob). We're talking about the article linked behind the word ''mononymously'' above. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:56, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::::Oh, Minogue! I thought you meant Swift. Yeah, that's BS. Everyone knows that the catchiest song ever is [[Rickrolling|this]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:02, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::I was going to say exactly the same thing, so you see great minds do think alike after all (and please do not post the traditional followup to that). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:10, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::The traditional followup to that. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:18, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::[[Look What You Made Me Do]] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:20, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wxp-NxJny8#t=1m10s All together!] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:52, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

== Beyond Belief book ==

I can't see if the edition is 1967 or 1992. Random House 1st published the book in 1967. abebooks.co.uk has images of the 1967 edition, {{U|EEng}}. I'll be happy to work with you on this article going forward. I have several printed sources on this case (some not listed in the table on the article's talk page). Regards, --[[User:Kieronoldham|Kieronoldham]] ([[User talk:Kieronoldham|talk]]) 22:14, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
:It's OK, I think it's only used once in the article presently, so it's not like we have to correlate page numbers in a lot of existing cites to page numbers in the editions we have in hand. I'm up in the air about the extent we can use it anyway; it tries to be a sort of [[In Cold Blood]], and I thought I read a review saying that it clearly distinguishes fact from fancy. But so far (having only thumbed it) I'm not seeing that distinction being drawn, but I'll have to give it a closer look to decide.
:This will be a lot of work, and it will take time. I'm glad you're on board. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:41, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
:: You're welcome. This book is was one of the first true crime books I ever read. I am unaware which review you are referring to, but in several areas of the book, the author clearly uses his imagination to portray events relating to the case.--[[User:Kieronoldham|Kieronoldham]] ([[User talk:Kieronoldham|talk]]) 22:53, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
:::Here's the review I was thinking of [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/001112876901500118?journalCode=cadc]:
::::{{tq|Williams explicitly distinguishes among fact, interpretation of fact, and surmise ... interwoven in the text. So that the reader may distinguish among them{{nbsp}}...}}
:::... and at point there's a page break in the review, and I can't see the next page! I'll have to get that. Our own article ([[Beyond_Belief:_A_Chronicle_of_Murder_and_its_Detection]]) says that later reviews were quite harsh. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:42, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
::::: I will look into that. Reviews are rightly harsh (even though much info. is verified in other sources and the book should not be completely discounted). Williams did consult numerous individuals involved in the case (police, neighbours, acquaintances etc.) while writing his book. In Ann West's book, she states he went to their flat in 1966, demanding an interview, and callously (and falsely) stated she slept in the same bedroom as her brothers before saying: "There's not a lot of room in these council flats, is there?" When ejected from the house, he stated either the Wests grant him an interview or he'd just fabricate the content for his book. I am actually glad there are only a small number of references to this book in the article.--[[User:Kieronoldham|Kieronoldham]] ([[User talk:Kieronoldham|talk]]) 23:59, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
::::::I'll have no problem getting the review, but based on the severe later criticism I'm guessing we can only use it for a good turn of the phrase expressing something sourced as fact elsewhere. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:21, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
*I've thrown my hat in the ring for a few of the minor sources that Supreme Leader here didn't manage to find on his first run. I shan't be following proceedings in great detail though so please ping me if you want something checked. {{small|Some of the more pulpy books mentioned here that are unsurprisingly absent from Antipodean institution catalogues are, weirdly, wildly popular in municipal library collections in [[New South Wales]]. This confirms everything we Melburnians believe about the psychopathy of our northern neighbours.}} [[User:Triptothecottage|Triptothecottage]] ([[User talk:Triptothecottage|talk]]) 00:55, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
*:This is great! But please, {{U|Triptothecottage}}, do not commit sudoku [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=912497564], or if you do at least do not drip on my couch [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=912054206#Museum_of_Bedside_Manners]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:32, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
*::Dude, [[Wikipedia talk:Categorization#RFC: Categories with committed suicide in title|commit is not the preferred nomenclature]]. It's [[sudo|''execute'' sudoku]]. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 01:48, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
*:::Reminds me of the username ''Osama /bin/login''. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:52, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

== Beyond a reasonable trout ==

{{trout|I certainly appreciate your brand of humor (puns and all), but [[Special:Diff/913428905]] was a bit much (especially putting it in the closure box) [[User:Creffett|creffett]] ([[User talk:Creffett|talk]]) 01:16, 1 September 2019 (UTC)}}
*"Beyond a reasonable trout" -- that's brilliant. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:36, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

== I figured you would get a kick out of this ==

https://www.foxnews.com/health/pressure-cooker-whistle-skull

<b style="background:#0000ff;font:Helvetica;padding:0.4em;font-size: 80%;border-radius: 2em;margin: 0.25em;">[[User:Cards84664|<span style="color: white;">Cards84664</span>]]</b> [[User talk:Cards84664|(talk)]] 14:33, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
:Contains the intriguing phrase {{tq|could not hear the whistle over the hay cutter}}. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:34, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

== And speaking of Michael Palin... ==

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00081v8

BMK

:And speaking of [[User:EEng#Museum_of_Unfortunate_Lyrics|a basement]]... [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:56, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

== nudge, nudge ==

I don't know if/how you missed this
* ''The discussion above is closed.'' '''{{Red|Please do not modify it.}}''' ''No further edits should be made to this discussion.''
but you'rerf really not supposed to edit inside a closed thread. [[User:Ched|— Ched]] ([[User talk:Ched|talk]]) 08:26, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
::When an RfC has run its course and had a formal close, modifying the discussion encapsulated by the close can confuse things. On the other hand, when some lone editor takes it upon himself to decide that everyone else has had enough to say, then no, that's not binding on the rest of us. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:18, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

== "hoist" v "hoisted" ==

Do you think perhaps, if it should be left as "hoist" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Civility&oldid=prev&diff=916582824], it should be placed in quotation marks to indicate it's quoting ''Hamlet'' directly?  Or maybe with a corresponding bluelink to the article on the phrase? I've got no problem with it being "hoist", but chancing across it, my first thought wasn't that it was deliberately using the archaic version of the past tense. Since the modern usage makes "hoisted" the past tense, and since the phrase "hoisted by his own petard" is generally used in modern English, quotation marks or a bluelink would indicate it's deliberate rather than a typo. Any objection to one or the other? [[User:Grandpallama|Grandpallama]] ([[User talk:Grandpallama|talk]]) 18:27, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
:Eh, never mind. :) [[User:Grandpallama|Grandpallama]] ([[User talk:Grandpallama|talk]]) 18:34, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
::Glad I could help. But for the record: if this was article space we’d worry about such things, but in project space we play fast and loose. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:18, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
:::My sentiments exactly, about five minutes after I typed out my original thoughts. [[User:Grandpallama|Grandpallama]] ([[User talk:Grandpallama|talk]]) 20:07, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

== [[WP:BRD]] ==

It's not a new concept and is very easy to grasp.  If you happen to be a troll or stupid, or both, then I guess it won't be referred to and warring will be the easiest thing to do. What do you know about [[WP:BRD]]? '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">[[User:Cassianto|<span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Cassianto</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Cassianto#top|<span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Talk</span>]]</sup></span>''' 17:19, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
:''Our benighted visitor refers to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=916957610].[https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=916970697] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=916974193]''
:Ah, the schoolyard insults and shifting rationales of he who flails desperately. So now it’s just plain ol’ BRD, huh? Of course, as [[WP:BRD-NOT|BRD itself]] says, “BRD is never a reason for reverting”, so apparently it’s not sufficiently easy to grasp that you have been able to grasp it. What about your old standby “Featured Article! Featured Article! Featured Article!”?  You could try milking that for for a few rounds. 

:BTW, how’s that SPI report coming? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:01, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
::A Featured Article is something that you only know how to ruin, and not write. BTW, how is that failure, [[Phineas Gage]] these days? Three attempts - at GA only?  Perhaps I should visit that and start molesting with it, like you do to others? But I would guess any amount of molesting would result in a vast improvement being made on the current version. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">[[User:Cassianto|<span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Cassianto</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Cassianto#top|<span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Talk</span>]]</sup></span>''' 18:40, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
:::*{{tq|A Featured Article is something that you only know how to ruin}}{{snd}}Asserted, as you have so many times before, without evidence.
:::*{{tq|not write}}{{snd}}What you still don't understand is ''no one but the FA crew cares about FAs''. You're a self-selected group of mutual congratulators who meet periodically to reinforce the shared fantasy that you're all incomparable masters of prose. You're not, not by a long shot{{snd}}not individually and not working together. FAs are typically (though with many, many exceptions) 100% grammatically correct, rigidly formatted, and flabby, bloated, and discursive. Here's an example that I've been getting a lot of laugh-mileage out of at parties recently: who on earth would write {{tq|had been responsible for the murders of}} when he could just write "had killed"? I'll give you one guess [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=306869751], and yes, that flash of brilliance made it all the way through the vaunted FA process [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=317748141] It's unfathomable.
:::*{{tq|Phineas Gage ... Three attempts at GA}}{{snd}}Gage has been nominated for GA ''once'' since I've been editing Wikipedia{{snd}}and not by me. The review was aborted when your friend and mentor, the now-banned sockpuppeteer Eric Corbett, threatened to (in the reviewer's words) {{tq|take it to GAR if he doesn't get it his way. No point in continuing}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=560673313], apparently because of a disputed image caption and a tussle over whether ''et al.'' goes in italics [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=560673120#Caption_style]. Way to go, Eric! So maybe this wasn't a great point for you to bring up.
:::*{{tq| Perhaps I should visit that and start molesting with it}}{{snd}}<small>''Molesting with it''{{hsp}}? You mean, like you and the article will get together and do some molesting? Anyway, I thought you Brits used the more euphemistic ''interfered with'', as in "The victim was stabbed several times and strangled, but not interfered with." Maybe that's what you meant: you're proposing to ''interfere with'' the article. Anyway...</small> If you can improve an article, you should of course do so.
:::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:03, 21 September 2019 (UTC) P.S. You forgot to tell me{{snd}}any progress on that SPI report? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:06, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
*Aw, shoot! EEng, this is probably the first time that I've ever seen you ''oppose'' including some non-displaying wiki-markup. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:11, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
*:Oh, you mean the nbsp? I hadn't noticed it, but if I had I'd not have minded seeing it go. In a parenthetical birth or death date in the article's opening, there's no chance of a linebreak anyway so an nbsp is a waste of time. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:42, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
*::You know what? When I clicked on the diff, I saw the nbsp at the top and I was too careless to scroll down, so it had been all I saw. I was wondering why there would be so much fuss over an nbsp. So you did a lot better at not missing stuff than I did! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:39, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
*Be careful EEng or they may take you to AN and get themselves banned this time. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 23:15, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
*I recently stumbled across this 10-year-old essay and read it for the first time: [[User:Physchim62/Situation Normal: All FACked up]]. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 23:29, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
*: That is just brilliant. Everyone should click the link '''^^^^^^^''' and read. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:17, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

== WP:ANI ==

Howdy. Will you PLEASE remove those images & stop restoring them? [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 17:31, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
:You mean [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=918638155]? You need to read the history and THINK. There's even a link in the image captions to help you. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:33, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
::<div class="user-block" style="min-height: 40px">[[File:Stop x nuvola with clock.svg|40px|left|alt=Stop icon with clock]]<div style="margin-left:45px">You have been '''[[WP:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing for a period of '''24 hours''' for violating the [[WP:3RR|3 revert rule]]. Really, on ''ANI''?.  Once the block has expired, you are welcome to [[WP:Five pillars|make useful contributions]]. </div><div style="margin-left:45px">If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the [[WP:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]], then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "tlx|" code. -->{{tlx|unblock|2=reason=''Your reason here &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;''}}. </div></div><!-- Template:uw-block --> [[User:El_C|El_C]] 18:50, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
::''For those playing along at home, this relates to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=918654916] (and I certainly appreciate El C's faint praise). Here's what I would have posted (in response to our esteemed fellow editor Rhododendrites) had I not been delayed elsewhere:''
[[File:Students in a mock "jail cell" at the University of Houston's Frontier Fiesta (1950s).jpg|thumb|[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EEng&diff=916552071&oldid=916546576 As I said...] 🚔 🚨 👮‍♀️👮‍♂️ 👀  <small>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 01:33, 30 September 2019 (UTC)</small>]]
:::Well first of all, [[WP:TPO]] is clear that in project space, in opposition to article space, the thumb on the scale favors retaining someone's post after a tentative removal has been opposed by the post-er, and the xRR resides in the persistent attempts to remove despite that opposition, after which those with a concern should restrict themselves to ''commenting on'' a post they see as problematic.<p>Beyond that, while your suggested approach has a superficial appeal, I really don't think it's applicable and workable. First, it wasn't really removed by {{tq|multiple people multiple times}}, rather by one person multiple times (on perceived lack of merit) one person once (on perceived lck of merit) and after that apparently under the misapprehension that it had been added after closure; and note I wasn't the only one restoring. But more generally, ANI has more than a thousand active watchers [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&action=info] and if anything not super-serious could be removed on the say-so of just few of those then ANI would be a dreary place indeed; on the other hand, your point about giving extra weight to the opinions of those participating in a particular thread is a good one, and I'll try to keep that in mind in future.<p>I realize my humor isn't everyone's cuppa tea, but [[User:EEng#Museum_of_Distorted_Quotations_Taken_Out_Of_Context|it's clear it is a whole lotta people's cuppa tea]], and the former group can just ignore what they don't "get" (or they can make the effort to get the point{{snd}}they might even learn something that way).<p>As a final note for SchroCat, you've got to stop personalizing everything. As already explained I didn't even realize it was you [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=918646344&oldid=918645572], anyone can make a typo, and if you can't be good-humored about it, tough. I wouldn't put it that bluntly were you not so dyspeptic about everything, but your behavior is such that I'm not inclined to put much store in your continual cries of outrage and victimization.

::''As for getting blocked, well, if I don't get blocked at least once in a while then I'm probably not doing my job.  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:27, 29 September 2019 (UTC)''

::''Followup:''
:::Um, {{tq|1=[https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=918659837 borderline personal attack]}}{{snd}}what???? So let me get this straight: so now it's a personal attack if I make fun of <u>my own typo</u>? But (and super-serious here now): I have never made fun of anyone's dyslexia; saying that I did without evidence <u>is</u> a personal attack; and if such accusations keep up there's gonna be an ANI thread on <u>that</u>. So have a fucking care. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:26, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
::''Followup followup:''
:::And now ol' SchroCat decides he's going to end the discussion [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=918681949]. Gotta love the control-freakism. Or am I not supposed to say that because being a control freak is a disability? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:30, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
::::You know I was disabled once ~ Oh I'm sorry, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k46kDXyhyo I don't know why I said that]  [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 11:51, 4 October 2019 (UTC)


=== Some requests ===
[[File:Bricklayer&#039;s Arms Depot abandoned ex-LB&amp;SC 0-6-0T geograph-2687638-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg|thumb|Thomas the Tank Engine after a bruising discussion at an "administrative noticeboard"<br/>''EEng says: Looks like the discussion got derailed?'']]
[[File:Alabino05042017-40.jpg|thumb|upright=0.8|"Tanks." "You're welcome."]]
[[File:Outhouse in an old west scene.jpg|thumb|upright=1.7|Archives for ''let it pass''.]]
[[File:Will_Smith_Russia_2018.jpg|thumb|upright=0.6|No, I said "pictures at will," not "pictures ''of'' Will"...]]
[[File:Banana Bullock.jpg|thumb|In de fence, a bull<br/>''EEng says: I ''really'' should be doing something else, but for those budding visual punsters out there wanting to improve their skills, I'd suggest "A lot of bull offered in de fence"]]
Hello EEng,

Sorry that you got blocked the other day. I have a few requests to make. I have been approached by SchroCat with a request that I ask you to avoid interacting with that editor unless necessary. In exchange, that editor will avoid interacting with you. This would be an informal arrangement for the purpose of avoiding conflict, not a formal logged interaction ban. I would also like to request that you avoid any comments that can be construed as mocking or ridiculing established editors for making routine typographical or spelling errors. Some people are much better at spotting such errors than others, and copy editing is always welcome in article space. Pointing out such minor errors on talk pages can be perceived as cruel or gauche, unless the meaning is unclear to most readers. In that case, a neutrally worded request for clarification is appropriate. My final request has to do with your fondness for placing humorous or ironic or punning images into the type of discussions that almost always lack images unless you get involved. I am not asking you to stop that practice, since I am sure that you have inspired countless chuckles and often help people stop and think. But like most comedians, sometimes your jokes fall flat, at least among some of the participants in these discussions. So please consider letting it pass if somebody objects to and reverts one of your image jokes. If your joke is essential to understanding the matter, I am sure that another editor will restore it. 

I respect you as a "really useful editor" here on Wikipedia, to use a phrase derived from [[Thomas the Tank Engine]]. I like you a lot. Please consider my requests. Thank you. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 01:54, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

:"Tanks" for the compliment, and you already know ''I'' respect ''you'' as a "really useful administrator". And thanks for the sympathy, but to paraphrase something I told ol' Ritchie recently, {{tq|1=[https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=910061871 after you get blocked enough times you really don't care]}}.
:The situation is a bit complicated, your proposal is a bit complicated, and a proper response will take more effort than I can muster tonight (but you needn't fear that means I'm looking for a complicated way to say No).  Probably tomorrow. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:31, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
::FWIW, I think Cullen's advice about mockery and about ANI images is very good, I want to encourage you to accept it. As for your usefulness...{{fbdb}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:25, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
:::I don't want to live in a world where you can't make fun of a typo. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 01:27, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
:::::::And I don't want to live in a world where ''you'' say the kinds of incivil things about ''me'' that you have said. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:35, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
::::As someone who has gotten into plenty of real-life trouble for jokes at the wrong time, it's definitely a "know your audience" problem. I think most people won't care or will get a laugh out of EEng posting a humorous picture for a typo (and let the record show that I'm one of those people, EEng is free to post pictures at will on my comments, especially when I make bad typos), but if someone objects to you posting on them...man, just apologize, make it clear that you were just making a joke about the spelling or whatever and weren't trying to insult them, and maybe make a list of people who have asked you to not do that (and then, you know, leave them alone). I think everyone wins that way. [[User:Creffett|creffett]] ([[User talk:Creffett|talk]]) 01:49, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
:::::I can't argue with that at all. And I argue about ''everything''. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 01:57, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
::::::{{u|Levivich}}, no you don't. [[User:Creffett|creffett]] ([[User talk:Creffett|talk]]) 02:06, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Yes I do. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 02:24, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ#t=39s I'm sorry -- is this a five-minute argument, or the full half-hour?] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:29, 4 October 2019 (UTC) 
::::::::Now be sensible. From what I hear, you've made yourself indispensable! [[User:Creffett|creffett]] ([[User talk:Creffett|talk]]) 02:37, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::You must have misheard; they said "indefensible". <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 03:43, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::Are you making fun of his typo??? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:02, 4 October 2019 (UTC) <small>Don't worry, Cullen, I am going to respond to your thoughtful post, but it's been a busy week.</small>
{{od}}Take your time, my friend. You are getting good advice in the interim. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 04:07, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
:{{u|Cullen328}}, if you're suggesting that my advice is good, I feel personally attacked and I might just have to take this to AN/I. I have a reputation to maintain, you know. <sup><small>[[User:Creffpublic|creffpublic]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-8ex"><small>a [[User:Creffett|creffett]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:Creffett|talk to the boss]]) 14:48, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
*EEng - example of happy typos for your enlightenment - read the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=903102511 edit summary], then the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jorm#Your_spelling_correction_at_NPOVN exchange]. And then there's the cash register [https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/50036/1000709857/original/penis-butter-snickers-photo-u1?w=650&q=50&fm=pjpg&fit=crop&crop=faces receipt]. Of course, if you want to get t-banned there's [https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/50036/1000709846/original/home-run-hitler-photo-u1?w=650&q=60&fm=pjpg&fit=crop&crop=faces%22 this one]. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 06:12, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
*:As for that cash register receipt, I am surprised that this particular item only costs 99 cents. With tax, that's less than $1.10 in most jurisdictions. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 06:19, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
*::*[https://imgur.com/gallery/1pQcz Penis broken, please use finger!]
*::*[https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/business/2013-11-25-did-samsung-really-cock-up-their-billboard-ad/ The penis, mightier than the finger.] <small>Bonus observation: the linked article contains the phrase "The very same advert was erected in Egypt"].</small>
*::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:22, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
::::<small>LMAO [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:53, 4 October 2019 (UTC)</small>
:*Cullen, I remember back when they were a dime a dozen. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 13:38, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

* This block business has led to Jimbo Whales coming by your talk page. [[User:Bellezzasolo|<span style="color: #bb9900">&#x2230;</span><span style="color: #00326a">'''Bellezzasolo'''</span><span style="color: #bb9900">&#x2721;</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Bellezzasolo|<small>Discuss</small>]] 14:09, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
{{whale}}

{{fontcolor|blue|<sup>[''cetacean needed'']</sup>}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:37, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

::<small>Tryp - won't that work as a template? *lol* {{tl|cnn}}?? {{u|Bellezzasolo}}, aren't you a template expert? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:59, 4 October 2019 (UTC)</small>
::: {{u|Atsme}}, [[User:Scheinwerfermann/Cetacean needed]] I believe! There's a significant deletion log at [[Template:Cetacean needed]]. [[User:Bellezzasolo|<span style="color: #bb9900">&#x2230;</span><span style="color: #00326a">'''Bellezzasolo'''</span><span style="color: #bb9900">&#x2721;</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Bellezzasolo|<small>Discuss</small>]] 13:15, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
::::I guess it didn't have enough of a porpoise around here. [[User:Creffett|creffett]] ([[User talk:Creffett|talk]]) 13:42, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
:::::😂 Porpoisely mammalian, I'd say, creffett. Bellezzasolo, I would never be able to remember the spellings. Can we not add a simple shortcut, like <nowiki>{{cnn}}</nowiki>?
::::::Or how about {msnbc}? {whalewanted}? {ww}? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:27, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, whale...whalecome to EEng's TP. It's a real killer. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 20:37, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

== John C Yoo ==

Turns out those torture memos were first seeded not just in the college, but in the vaults of [[Winthrop House]] [https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1988/2/3/a-parting-shot-pithe-crimsoni-is/]. Is anyone surprised? -[[User:Darouet|Darouet]] ([[User talk:Darouet|talk]]) 16:31, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
:Oh dear, so he is a Harvard College graduate. That saddens me. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:38, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
::He's also a University of California professor. That saddens me even more. Harvard at least has the excuse that his misdeeds were in the unknowable future. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 19:25, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
:::He went to Yale Law School -- figures. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:58, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
::::[[Grover Norquist]] was in Winthrop, too. Must have been something in the water. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:39, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::But then so were the Kennedys, so go figure. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:19, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

== And now, for something completely different ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Monty python foot.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Python Procurer Level 3'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For your continued and apt use of [[Monty Python]] sketches in a wide array of discussions, wherein such sketches diffuse the general tension, and provide to the assembled members of the Wiki-pedia a quaint and pleasant respite from their toils, you are hereby recognized as, if nay promoted to, a third level Python Procurer.  [[User:CaptainEek|<span style="color:#6a1f7f">'''Captain Eek'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:CaptainEek|<span style="font-size:82%"><span style="color:#a479e5">''Edits Ho Cap'n!''</span></span>]]</sup>[[Special:Contributions/CaptainEek|⚓]] 22:22, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
|}

*For those playing along at home, our honored guest refers to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=926821247], [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=926936297&oldid=926933713], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=927018973]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:51, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
::[[Procuring (prostitution)|Procurer]]? [https://books.google.com/books?id=1uHmAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=monty+python+%22procurer%22&source=bl&ots=EEBh_ZeZOj&sig=ACfU3U0jiDdjSwUid6G2cgz5rugLyNhi6w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwib2-btsvnlAhWSTN8KHaOOAsQQ6AEwBXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=monty%20python%20%22procurer%22&f=false] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:21, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
:::When an [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=926764651 old hooker like myself] reaches a certain age, procurement is an attractive career transition. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:05, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
::::Not to worry, you don't look a day above sixty. But when you find the [[Python (programming language)|Pythons]] getting less attractive, you can always switch to being a [[Feather boa|Boa Conscriptor]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:04, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Did you know .... that the [[programming language]] [[Python (programming language)|Python]] frequently makes use of example variable names "spam" and "eggs"; indeed our article on [[Python syntax and semantics]] refers to "{{xt|For example, in the sample below, <code>viking_chorus</code> might cause menu_item to be run 8 times for each time it is called:}}" I wonder if you encounter a run-time error, are you cast into the gorge of eternal peril? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 18:00, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

== Ships ==
C'mon, stop attacking Bus stop. That's not gonna get us anywhere, especially not where we want it to go, which is changing the style guide to 'it' only for ships. Otherwise, you're just giving them arguments against you. ''[[User:Facu-el Millo|El Millo]]'' ([[User talk:Facu-el Millo|talk]]) 06:39, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
:You call this [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=932213227] an attack? Trust me, if I was attacking him you'd know it. BTW, I highly doubt we're gonna be gettin where we wanna go. Not on this round. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:52, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
[[File:IT (1990) logo.png|thumb|upright=0.4]]
::''O snail / Climb Mount Fuji / But slowly, slowly!''
::In other words, perhaps not now, but someday surely, the "it" camp will win out.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 13:22, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
:::Right now, numerically 58% in favor of "it" (66-48). <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 05:14, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
::::But counting ''posts'' for and against instead of ''editors'', with Bus Stop around its 0.0000000036% for "it", 99.0000000064% against. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:39, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
:::::66-48 is firmly in "wishy-washy-admin-concerned-about-their-credentials-closes-as-no-consensus" territory.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 18:58, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
::::::Wikipedia is the only organization I've ever seen where 60% can agree on something and it ''won't'' happen because there's "no consensus". And it's because people think "consensus" means "unanimity". <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 19:21, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
:::::::As much as (as you well know) I think ''she'' for ships is pretentious and stupid, there’s also something to be said for the idea that for a rule to be promulgated that presumes to short-circuit the choices of editors on individual articles, the level of consensus should be very high. Our day will come.  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:37, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
::::::::I agree with that principle, but I think the way we go about it violates the principle rather than follows it. Right now, there is an exception in GNL (allowing "she" for ships), and that exception is opposed by 58% of editors. That's not "very high" consensus, or even majority support. The way it works, we need very high consensus to ''remove'' a rule (or part of a rule, or an exception to a rule), even when ''retaining'' it doesn't have consensus. Generally the way decisionmaking works on Wikipedia is that we want consensus for ''adding'', and then consensus for ''removing'', but instead we should be demanding consensus for ''adding'', and consensus for ''retaining''. When we require clear consensus to remove rather than clear consensus to retain, we get stuck in this netherworld where, even though it's clear there ''isn't'' consensus to retain (and there wouldn't be consensus to add), we nevertheless retain language because there isn't clear-enough consensus to remove. Status quo thrives in the netherworld of no consensus. That means there's an "addition advantage" like a first-moved advantage: language that is added to pages (any pages) is sticky and difficult to remove, unless you revert it right away and claim BRD. Unless promptly reverted, it becomes "longstanding consensus language", and you need a supermajority to remove it. And the end result of that is that you get confusing policies and other pages, where people's sort of slap-dash additions stick, and it's very difficult to do something like, revise an entire policy page so that it's internally consistent and makes sense. Hence, Wikipedia's byzantine system of PAGs is born. (Same goes for requiring consensus to delete pages, as opposed to requiring consensus to retain them.) <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 20:57, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::All true. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:09, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

=== Urquhart ===

Dear EEng, many thanks for your entertaining post at the MoS style discussion re "she" and "it". It brought back some very old memories; are you familiar with ''[[Unlikely Stories, Mostly]]'' by [[Alasdair Gray]]? If not, I think you would appreciate the tenth story in the collection. Best regards, --[[User:The Huhsz|The Huhsz]] ([[User talk:The Huhsz|talk]]) 16:19, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
:Oh! How did that not come up in my research??? Thank you! I'm traveling now but will have a sit and read next time I'm at the library. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:56, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
::With libraries open again I was finally able to take a look. Honestly it's a little far-flung for my tastes, but I did enjoy **** HERE A GREAT PART OF THE MANUSCRIPT HAS BEEN EATEN BY MICE **** and **** MORE EXCISIONS HERE BY THE TOOTH OF THE EDITORIAL RODENT ****. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:42, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

== Pearls before swine ==
[[File:Swatches of berber carpet.jpg|thumb|upright=1|You should be [[Berber carpet|carpeted]] for [[Peärls Before Swïne Experience|this]]!]]
Please {{diff||next|933448623|keep casting your pearls}}. We are not all swine. [[User:Phil Bridger|Phil Bridger]] ([[User talk:Phil Bridger|talk]]) 10:27, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
:You kind words fill me with joy. To openly plagiarize [[Tom Lehrer]], while at the same time partially changing his words without making clear where or how:
{{cquote|If after reading one of my jokes or seeing one of my lame visual puns just one human being is inspired to say something nasty to a friend, or perhaps to strike a loved one, it will all have been worth the while.}}
:[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:06, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

== US Airways Flight 1549 edit ==

Hi, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=US_Airways_Flight_1549&diff=889132295&oldid=889117822 this edit] you made to [[US Airways Flight 1549]] introduced a citation error, as there are still two usages of the named referenced "NTSB", which you deleted. You will probably want to fix that. Thanks. <span style="font-family:Verdana; ">—'''[[User:Howcheng|<span style="color:#33C;">howcheng</span>]]'''  <small>{[[User talk:Howcheng|chat]]}</small></span> 18:24, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{tps}} {{u|Howcheng}}, I'm not seeing any citations deleted in that diff. I am seeing that the NTSB citation error has been in that article for months. I think you may be mistaken. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 18:31, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
::{{ping|Levivich}} In that first change (line 14), there was a <nowiki><ref name=NTSB></nowiki> reference replaced by <nowiki>{{r|NTSBMay2010}}</nowiki>. If you scroll to the reference list, you'll see that ref #22 is now an error. This error did not exist in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=US_Airways_Flight_1549&diff=prev&oldid=889117822 the previous revision]. <span style="font-family:Verdana; ">—'''[[User:Howcheng|<span style="color:#33C;">howcheng</span>]]'''  <small>{[[User talk:Howcheng|chat]]}</small></span> 18:38, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
:::Don’t panic, everyone. I’ll look at it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:41, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
:::Oops, you're right, I was looking at the wrong diff. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 18:42, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
::::I take back what I said [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=935391590]. You’re an idiot. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:53, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::Hey, at least I'm not the one leaving citation errors all over the place. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 18:55, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

== ? ==

What is the point of that image, joke, whatever it is? I for one do not think that Monty Python wannabe moments are welcomed on such a discussion. '''[[User:Sadko|<span style="color:#EE8833;">Sadkσ</span>]]''' [[User talk:Sadko|<span style="color: #000000;">(talk is cheap)</span>]] 18:21, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
:Look, you urged someone to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=935621130#Proposal stop with the constant aspirations]; you don't expect me to let an opportunity like that go to waste, do you? I went with Jesus because I couldn't find any sufficiently evocative pictures of [[aspirator (medical_device)|aspirator]]s. See also [[WP:ASSPERSIANS]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:35, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
::Personally, I would have gone with a shot of Darth Vader with the [[Rogue One]] line about "be careful not to ''choke'' on your ''aspirations'', Director," but that would need a good (free) Vader picture. <sup><small>[[User:Creffpublic|creffpublic]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-8ex"><small>a [[User:Creffett|creffett]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:Creffett|talk to the boss]]) 18:43, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I always wondered whether DV might not have been talking to the director of the ''movie''. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:32, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
:{{tps}} Dear Saddo, you probably need to be aware that EEng may be, in fact, perpetually "[[Aspirational age|on the cusp between childhood and adulthood]]". [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:42, 13 January 2020 (UTC) <small> p.s. and this was one of the very few times that EEng admits he "[[Jesus Walks|went with Jesus]]" </small>
::Good job; aspire away. cheers :) '''[[User:Sadko|<span style="color:#EE8833;">Sadkσ</span>]]''' [[User talk:Sadko|<span style="color: #000000;">(talk is cheap)</span>]] 22:44, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

EEng, although I think it ''is'' amusing, I also think this image and caption is unhelpful (so apparently does {{u|Sadko}}). Moreover I think it might be found legitimately offensive by some, so I removed it. But you reverted me. {{u|Dicklyon}} agreed with me, and also removed it, but you've reverted again. How is it that you think this image is ''so'' useful in that discussion that you feel compelled to keep it there even though three of your colleagues disagree? Maybe you should reconsider? Also, you seemingly called me "the least perceptive participant in the discussion". While I don't mind PA's against myself, sticks and stones and all that, let me take this opportunity to politely ask you to at least try to be more collegial with other editors. Regards, [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 13:02, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:I could only aspire to being the least perceptive participant in that discussion, Paul. But you have a fair point. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:35, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
:: ;-) I make no claims to being particularly "perceptive", all too often in fact I'm as dumb as a doorpost, so the sobriquet might be quite apt. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 14:34, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
::: I'd like to hereby make a claim to being as [[Thick as a Brick|thick as two short planks]]. Thanks. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:53, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

{{colonel}}
*Now and then I insert one of my irreverent images or awful puns somewhere. Hardly a day goes by that I don't get one or two thanks for them, and now and then someone takes the trouble to thank me more extensively on this very page. But once every few months someone shows up to declare that a post is un-useful, or worse, and must be removed{{snd}}even days after it was posted, during which hundreds of editors would have seen it. So who am I supposed to believe{{snd}}the one, or the hundreds?{{pb}}And yeah, {{U|Paul August}}, if you feel the impulse to remove something which hundreds of others found unexceptionable, maybe you ought to consider how well calibrated are your own perceptions. If you don't get the joke you could ask. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:17, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

{{minnow|float=right}}
::No no. I ''got'' the joke, but jokes, even funny ones, can be offensive, don’t you think? <small>(In this case, don't you think some Christians, who might have found the joke funny in a snarky sort of way, might also have found this image and caption offensive?)</small> I don’t think you can legitimately conclude that “hundreds of others” found your joke unexceptionable. Silence does not mean agreement. And several editors, who have not remained silent, see problems here. And that you are right about the appropriateness many of your jokes, does not mean you are always right, right? Look I’m not trying to pick a fight with you. I’m trying to give you some friendly constructive feedback. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 12:08, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
:::Bbbbbuttt... Lord EEng '''''is''''' always right. — [[User:JFG|JFG]] <sup>[[User talk:JFG|talk]]</sup> 17:23, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::Indeed, as are we all ;-) [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 18:36, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
::::That's a common misconception. I'm only infallible [[papal infallibility|when I ''say'' I'm being infallible]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:32, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
:::<small>Offensive jokes are the funniest ones, as everyone knows.</small> Silence doesn't necessarily mean endorsement, but it does mean no one cared enough to bother; maybe we should have a ''Tsk-tsk'' button to balance the ''Thanks'' button. Look, if you want to remove something with an edit summary like "Maybe this is a bit overboard", I probably won't mind. But "This doesn't help" gets my dander up, because humor definitely helps (all else being equal), and the many shouldn't be denied their chuckle just because of a few lugubrious characters in the crowd. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:32, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
::::<small>... Except perhaps to the offended ;-)</small> But seriously, I'm sorry that you took offense at my edit summary: "Don't think this helps". It wasn't my intention to offend. <small>(My intention was to express that, in my opinion, the image in question was ''on balance'' unhelpful, that, while it ''was'' funny, I though some people might be offended and that, weighing that possible offense against the possible feel good chuckles of others was, again in my opinion, likely to be a net negative&ndash;perhaps I should have made that more clear ;-)</small> However, that you took offense, at what I though was a harmless edit summary, should help you see that, other people might also find things you consider harmless offensive as well. <small>(By the way you seems to be ignoring the whole Christian angle.)</small> And of course humor helps ''sometimes'', but you shouldn't always assume that you know when. <small>(And "lugubrious"? Again with the insults?)</small> So sorry about the dander thing, in the future I will try harder to keep your dander down. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 18:36, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
::::::Look, let's keep it simple; [[WP:TPO]] is clear: {{tq|Cautiously editing or removing another editor's comments is sometimes allowed, but normally '''you should stop if there is any objection'''}} and as many here will attest, there's often more to these posts that meets the eye. I'm happy to discuss, but dislike unilateral action. Be assured there are no hard feelings, and I hope you will take a moment to visit [[User:EEng#s|The Museums]].{{pb}}I'll just take a moment at this point to remind readers that nothing in this post should be interpreted as implying that
<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron.</center></big>
::::::(See section below.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:46, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::::I only removed the image once, so I didn't violate [[WP:TPO]], do you think otherwise? And the content of the image seems self evident to me, a funny jape (or jibe?) at the expense of {{u|Sadkσ}}, what am I missing? I did choose to unilaterally remove the image (just as you chose to unilaterally add it), so? I could have tried to discuss it with you first, but I thought it was more important to remove a possible source of offense first. Again I apologize for offending you, that was not my intent. Finally I will note that you've decided (again) not to address the fact that your image might have been offensive to Christians, do you not care? [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 16:36, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Oh my god, are we still on this? It wasn't at anyone's expense; we all fall victim to the curse of the spellchecker or the autocomplete now and then, and there's no shame in it. Sure I care about giving offense, but to that I must add the words "within bounds", because there's always someone ready to take offense, no matter what. Here's a favorite joke of mine:
:::::::::Jesus is turning the stoning of an adulterous woman into a teachable moment. He says to the assembled mob: "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone." Immediately he is struck in the head by a rock. Jesus cranes his head to see where it came from, then yells, "Goddamit mom, will you please go ''home?''"
::::::::I'm sure someone, somewhere is offended by that. I'm sorry, but that's just tough. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:55, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::<small>[[Dander|Eeeeewwww]]! [[Dan Druff (musician)|Dan Druff 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:03, 16 January 2020 (UTC) </small>
:::::: <small><small>;-) Funny guy that 123. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 19:33, 16 January 2020 (UTC) </small></small>

== Je suis EEng ==

So y'know the user box you have that's all like

{{Userbox
  |border-c = black
  |border-s = 1
  |id-c     = black
  |id-p     = 14
  |info-c   = black
  |info-s   = white
  |info-fc  = white
  |id       = [[File:Candle.jpg|64px]]
  |info     = <span style="background:black; color:white;font-size: large; font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold;text-align:center;display:block;">JE SUIS</span><br/><span style="background:black; color:gray; font-size: xx-large; font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold;"><center>&nbsp;EEng&nbsp;</center></span>
}}?
{{clear}}
Well apparently, [https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=864 I'm your sock], so Je suis EEng. [[User:Money emoji |💴Money💶💵emoji💷]]<sup>[[User talk:Money emoji|Talk💸]][[User:Money emoji/CCI Sort|Help out at CCI!]]</sup>  01:04, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
:For the record it was Ritchie (IIRC) who added that box to my userpage, I think back when I got blocked for satirizing poor, helpless Donald Trump.{{pb}}Legal note: As everyone here must know by now, to the extent I've ever said anything which could be interpreted as implying that
:<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron</center></big>
: that was just satire. I would never want people to think I was actually implying anything like that, to wit, that
:<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron.</center></big>
: To repeat, I am <u>not</u> saying that</small>
:<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron.</center></big>
:Anyway... Yeah, it's completely weird. According to the link you posted above, you and I are sockpuppets because we {{tq|share one peculiar interest{{snd}}hunting down a long term abuse case, "BMX On Wheels"}}. The only problem with that fine piece of reasoning is that I have no idea who or what this BMX On Wheels is. Do you? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:31, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
[[File:Fire ants 01.jpg|thumb|upright=0.4|A gang of ant-vandals on their way to commit some ant-vandalism.]]
::An LTA I fought in my early anti-vandal days. I'm not sure if they even edit anymore.... but you aren't really an ant-vandal, so ????? [[User:Money emoji |💴Money💶💵emoji💷]]<sup>[[User talk:Money emoji|Talk💸]][[User:Money emoji/CCI Sort|Help out at CCI!]]</sup>  01:38, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I don't think I even knew what ''LTA'' stands for until a few months ago. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:49, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
::::ant I still doan't understant why LTAnts do whant they do. [[User:Money emoji |💴Money💶💵emoji💷]]<sup>[[User talk:Money emoji|Talk💸]][[User:Money emoji/CCI Sort|Help out at CCI!]]</sup>  01:58, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
::Sorry, I'm confused. Could you clarify whether or not you are suggesting that <big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron?</center></big> Thanks. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">– [[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 19:32, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
::::Gracious! Perish the thought that anyone would think I'm implying that
::<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron.</center></big>
::::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:00, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
:::Now look here, old chap. Calling people "LTAs"?! That's [[Lawn Tennis Association|just not cricket]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:36, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
::::That's pretty good. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:00, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
{{outdent}}Not that anyone asked me, but I'd never compare DT to anything remotely insinuated above nor to a fascist nor a ''Putinpuppe''-- <b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span>]][[User talk:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:red">fried</span>]][[Special:UserRights/Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:gold">okra</span>]]  </b> 11:19, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
[https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/search.php?keywords=Deepfriedokra Apparently, I need to work harder.]-- <b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span>]][[User talk:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:red">fried</span>]][[Special:UserRights/Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:gold">okra</span>]]  </b> 11:22, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
::Well... at least he got some applause from [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UiFRZ3t_KM all the Swiss trees in the audience]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:18, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
:::"[[Paint Your Wagon (film)|I talk to the trees//But they don't listen to me]]."-- <b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span>]][[User talk:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:red">fried</span>]][[Special:UserRights/Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:gold">okra</span>]]  </b> 21:33, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
::::"[[I Aim at the Stars|I aim at the stars//But sometimes I hit London.]]"--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 15:49, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
::::::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V7me25aNtI#t=1m4s "Some have harsh words / for this man of renown / but some say our attitude / should be one of gratitude / like the widows and cripples / in old London Town / who owe their large pension / to Wernher von Braun."] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:12, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::"[[I love to steal awhile away|I love to steal awhile away ..... (or else $2.8 million from veterans charities)]]" [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:32, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
* The conspiracy grows deeper.... apparently, [http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10154&p=235353&hilit=Drmies%2C+Tarage%2C+EENG%2C+Ponyo%2C+Epic+Genius%2C+money+emoji#p235353 Me, you, Drmies, Tarage, Ponyo, BMK, Epic genius, and Legacypac are all the same person]. [[User:Money emoji |💴Money💶💵emoji💷]]<sup>[[User talk:Money emoji|Talk💸]][[User:Money emoji/CCI Sort|Help out at CCI!]]</sup>  15:44, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
*:Pinging {{reply to|Drmies|Ponyo|Beyond My Ken|Epicgenius|Legacypac}} '''''Emergency meeting of the cabal! Usual place!''''' {{wink}}. (Sadly, I was forced to retire my {{U|Tarage}} sock in a huff late last year.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:03, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
*::Oh no! Our super mega sock account farm has been found! ABORT SHIP! Time to throw away my five admin socks, then. [[User:Epicgenius|epicgenius]] ([[User talk:Epicgenius|talk]]) 23:13, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
*:::I don't know about the rest of the suspects, but it's a well-established fact that EEng and I are socks. Especially when you take into account the fact that neither of us believe that
:<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron.</center></big>
::::it's a slam-dunk. [[User:Beyond My Ken|Beyond My Ken]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 16:42, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
:::::I definitely don't believe that
:<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron.</center></big>
:::::either. But I'm pretty sure we're not all [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/28/nyregion/if-you-see-something-write-something.html me]. There's got to be at least two of us, right? [[User:Epicgenius|epicgenius]] ([[User talk:Epicgenius|talk]]) 17:24, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
::::::Wow. We could be twins. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:38, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
*Wait--that [https://xxx.wordpress.com/2018/05/31/graaf-statler-controlelijst/ Graaf Statler] idiot is [[User:Guido den Broeder]]? With his little articles on a knock-off version of Wikipedia called [http://nl.wikisage.org/wiki/Wikisage "Wikisage"]? Funny--despite all their freedom from the Wikipedia yoke, [http://nl.wikisage.org/wiki/Stoofkarbonade their article on stoofkarbonade] really doesn't offer much more than [[Carbonade flamande|ours]], though the entire Wikisage project smells like the world of before 1950, when father still cut the meat at the Sunday dinner table. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 01:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
*Ha, his blog is on our blacklist: groetenuiteerbeek. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 01:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

== Apologies for the revert ==
[[File:Handbrake turns, Cranny, Omagh - geograph.org.uk - 648481.jpg|thumb|"Apologies for the revert"]]
Navigating Wikipedia on mobile is pretty damn difficult especially if you've got butter fingers like I do. Sorry for the revert! Regards, [[User:SshibumXZ|SshibumXZ]] ([[User talk:SshibumXZ|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/SshibumXZ|contribs]]). 17:37, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
:I've already [https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/03/eat-frog/ eaten my live toad] this morning, so don't worry about it.  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:44, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

== Didn't mean to be responding to you ==

FYI my comment wasn't meant to be in response to you, which is why I didn't indent it. I see you have now though, so I figured I'd clarify that. And "panic" may be a bit dramatic, but I ''do'' think a redirect should be appropriately implemented and that it wasn't was worthy of at least addressing sooner rather than later. Cheers. --[[User:Pinchme123|Pinchme123]] ([[User talk:Pinchme123|talk]]) 07:52, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
:ANI is for urgent incidents and chronic behavioral problems. The title of a school bus article isn't that. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:54, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
::I didn't take it there and I wasn't responding to you. That's all. --[[User:Pinchme123|Pinchme123]] ([[User talk:Pinchme123|talk]]) 07:58, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I didn't say you did. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:20, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
::::Did I say you did? --[[User:Pinchme123|Pinchme123]] ([[User talk:Pinchme123|talk]]) 08:27, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::Who's on third? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:58, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
::::::Who's on ''first''.-- <b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span>]][[User talk:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:red">fried</span>]][[Special:UserRights/Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:gold">okra</span>]]  </b>
:::::::Women and children first. First things first. First do no harm. First the memory goes. Firth of Forth. Four Weddings and a Funeral. Colin Firth. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:34, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::::I don't know?[[User:WilliamJE|...William]], is the complaint department really on [[User talk:WilliamJE|the roof?]] 14:43, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Firth and vermouth. At least no one said, "Gimme the water!"-- <b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span>]][[User talk:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:red">fried</span>]][[Special:UserRights/Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:gold">okra</span>]]  </b> 15:46, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::Fifth of bourbon. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:23, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

That was my fear too when I saw EEng comment on that section. [[User:Creffett|creffett]] ([[User talk:Creffett|talk]]) 22:08, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

== I don't know if you're aware... ==

but I thought you'd get a kick out of [[m:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations]]. [[m:Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations]] and its related pages are pretty funny (in a tragic way), if I dare say so myself. [[User:Mdaniels5757|Mdaniels5757]] ([[User talk:Mdaniels5757|talk]]) 01:26, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
:I've done my best to help out. [https://meta.wikimedia.org/?diff=19742776&oldid=19742743] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:05, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
::Perfect :). [[User:Mdaniels5757|Mdaniels5757]] ([[User talk:Mdaniels5757|talk]]) 03:52, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
:::It exerts a strange fascination. I can't unwatch it, can't decide whether it is, or is not, parody. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:16, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
::::It's like watching a car crash in slow motion. <sup><small>[[User:Creffpublic|creffpublic]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-8ex"><small>a [[User:Creffett|creffett]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:Creffett|talk to the boss]]) 15:22, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
:::::The community needs to elect trustees that will clean house at the WMF. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 05:43, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

[[File:Wikipedia Movement chart.pdf|thumb|left|upright=1.3|WMF org chart, 2020]]
[[File:Vassily_Kandinsky,_1913_-_Composition_7.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Same, 2030]]

{{clear}}

== If you find time ==
{{multiple image
 | width = 175
 | footer = Inventions that transferred the power from man to electricity
 | image1 = Frans Floris - Venus at Vulcan's Forge - WGA7950.jpg
 | alt1 = Caveman with tool
 | caption1 = Early tools
 | image2 = Hvdc.jpg
 | alt2 = High voltage transmission (HVDC)
 | caption2 = Three-phase rectifier for high voltage transmission (HVDC)
 }}
[[File:Thyme plant.jpg|thumb|Found some! <sup><small>[[User:Creffpublic|creffpublic]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-8ex"><small>a [[User:Creffett|creffett]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:Creffett|talk to the boss]]) 15:59, 21 February 2020 (UTC)]]
[[William McMurray (engineer)]] - could probably be expanded but the technical aspects are over my head. If/when you have the time, perhaps you could add some information about McMurray's contribution - maybe create a history section, and another about his inventions/patents, or whatever? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 13:07, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
:It's not my area but I can fake it well enough. However, I'm a little backed up right now. Ping me in two weeks if you don't see any movement on the article by then. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:19, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
:{{U|Atsme}}, I'm sorry to note that I never got to this. I'm afraid now isn't the time either, but I don't want you to think I plan to let you down. Ping me sometime when you think of it again, at least 6 months from now. This is probably something best done when the libraries are open. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:07, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

== Your interference over at DGG's talk page ==

Thank you for your opinion.

His talk page is ''extremely'' clumsy to use, he will ''obviously'' not fix it himself, and I trust you're not saying some editors stand above the law?

Cheers
[[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|talk]]) 08:20, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
: I see you have found your way to the proper place to discuss this. See you there :) [[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|talk]]) 08:21, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
::'''''For those playing along at home, this concerns [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=942403576#Talk_page_size_2].'''''
::Now you're talking about "interference" and "the law". You need to find something else to do on Wikipedia. I'm serious. This nannying of others' user pages will not end well for you. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:44, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
::: Please remain civil. [[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|talk]]) 14:26, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
::::Keep it up and I'll show you some ''real'' civility. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:29, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

=== Your presence at Talk page guidelines ===
[[Image:Gallinago stenura - Laem Pak Bia.jpg|thumb|180px|It if was a [[Domestic canary#Miner's canary|canary]] it would probably be dead by now.{{right|-{{U|Martinevans123}}}}]] 
::'''For those intrepid enough to ''still'' be playing along at home, this has now metastasized to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=942812636#guidance_on_talk_page_size] (that section and the one immediate following it)'''

Hello, EENG. It's one thing to actively argue "let's remove any numeric goal; here are my reasons..." It's another to passive-aggressively snipe at editors, which you just did more than once over at [[Wikipedia talk:Talk page guidelines#guidance on talk page size]]. I am writing this polite and personalized message to ask you to please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Regards,  [[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|talk]]) 14:21, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
:As seen right now in the thread at issue, you have a peculiar idea of what constitutes constructive discussion. I'm doing my best to help you see you're wasting your own and everyone else's time, but it's not working. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:29, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
:: If your idea of having a constructive discussion is "let's not discuss it, everything is fine as is" then you need to actively put forward arguments for that, arguments that then can be evaluated, rather than merely trying to shut down discussion. Cheers [[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|talk]]) 11:30, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
:::Meh. 'fraid I don't have a large interest in making so large an issue of large user talk pages. And if you over archive, you're being secretive or something. Now, ima go protect or delete something.[[User:Deepfriedokra|Deepfriedokra]] ([[User talk:Deepfriedokra|talk]]) 11:40, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

=== February 2020 ===

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] [[Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome to Wikipedia|Welcome to Wikipedia]] and thank you for [[Special:Contributions/EEng|your contributions]]. I am glad to see that you are discussing a topic. However, as a [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|general rule]], talk pages such as [[WT:Talk page guidelines]] are for discussion related to improving the article in specific ways based on [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] and the project [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines|policies and guidelines]], [[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#FORUM|not for general discussion]] about the topic or unrelated topics, or statements based on your thoughts or feelings. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting [[Wikipedia:Reference desk|our reference desk]] and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-chat1 --> [[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|talk]]) 16:41, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
:Thank you for welcoming me to Wikipedia and for thanking me for my 70,000 contributions, including specifically 22,000 policy and other project-space posts. In return, your 8,000 edits, including almost 500 to project space, are appreciated as well. Your relentless rambling about whether we should have a rule specifying that 50K, versus 75K, is a good time to start archiving talk pages, and now a discussion about the meaning of something you could look up in wiktionary, is not appreciated nearly as much. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:55, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
:{{u|CapnZapp}}, okay, templating EEng (''after'' the normal, non-templated discussion above) is just condescending. Don't do that. Or, if you prefer:
:{{burma-shave|TEMPLATE|THE REGULARS|AT YOUR OWN PERIL|WRITE <del>YOUR OWN</del> A PERSONAL MESSAGE|MORE <del>PERSONAL</del>THOUGHTFUL|LESS STERILE}}
:(not my best work, but it'll do) <sup><small>[[User:Creffpublic|creffpublic]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-8ex"><small>a [[User:Creffett|creffett]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:Creffett|talk to the boss]]) 17:25, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
::No, but even on a bad day you're pretty good. I changed ''PERSONAL'' TO ''THOUGHTFUL''. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:24, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
:::Nice! Sounds and scans better. <sup><small>[[User:Creffpublic|creffpublic]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-8ex"><small>a [[User:Creffett|creffett]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:Creffett|talk to the boss]]) 13:11, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
::::Now changed ''YOUR OWN'' to ''A PERSONAL'' (avoiding repeat of ''YOUR OWN''). Let's remember to get this one into the template. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:55, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::"Your own" scanned better, though. Repetition isn't always bad (see [[repetition (rhetorical device)]]) and avoiding it can be worse (see [[elegant variation]]). Also the question of whether repetition or its avoidance is better can get you into <s>lame</s> fun wiki-arguments (see [[Template:Did you know nominations/Amy Langville]]). —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 06:37, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::I stand corrected, Herr Doktor Professor. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

== As compared to analog ==

So you made a joke and some censorious editor didn't like it. I don't like [[wikt:wokescold|woke-scold]]s but {{diff|Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2020-03-01/Community_view|prev|944211409|I would defer to the editor-in-chief}} about comments on ''Signpost'' articles if it were me. Sometimes poking the hornets' nest, even on principle, doesn't turn out well. <small>(I am not [[Help:Watchlist|watching]] this page, so please [[Help:Notifications|ping me]] if you want my attention.)</small> <span class="nowrap" style="font-family:copperplate gothic light;">[[User:Chris troutman|<span style="color:#345">Chris Troutman</span>]] ([[User talk:Chris troutman|<span style="color:#345">talk</span>]])</span> 17:07, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
::''For those playing along at home, this concerns the repeated removal of the lower image-and-caption seen here [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=943575985]:''
:The flaw in your analogy, {{U|Chris troutman}}, is this particular nest doesn't belong to the wasps{{snd}}it belongs to the community. The [[User:Smallbones|Signpost's editor-in-chief]] ''most of all'' shouldn't be tampering with commentary on the items it publishes, and if {{U|Megalibrarygirl}} wants to selectively remove comments on her essays then she needs to publish them on her own user page. Of course, given the subject of the essay there's some irony to all this [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=944244992]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:32, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
:A ''lot'' of irony, actually: [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=944292834]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:31, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
::The problem, EEng, is that the joke is not neutral. You have your own intentions. However, I and {{u|Smallbones}} both pointed out to you that there were ways to interpret the caption as an insult to a group of people, in this case, non-binary people. You may not agree with us, but it is a valid interpretation of what you wrote and it is always best to err on the side of civility. Wikipedia isn't stand up comedy: it's a place full of people with very different ideas who need to work together and making some people a joke is antithetical to that. Since the image is now back up, please remove it. The [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2020-03-01/Community_view&oldid=944299023 second image] which you posted with diffs, is also not civil in my opinion where you categorize people who are concerned about the joke as "{{tq|people intolerant of criticism of themselves}}." I am not intolerant of criticism: I am intolerant of making marginalized groups the butt of any kind of joke. [[User:Megalibrarygirl|Megalibrarygirl]] ([[User talk:Megalibrarygirl|talk]]) 00:37, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Being born and bred in Berkeley I knew what a woke-scold was decades before the term was coined, and you are a woke-scold. By folding everything that anyone even conceivably could choose to take offense at ({{tq|there were ways to interpret the caption as an insult}}{{snd}}gotta love it) into one giant ball of weepy hysteria [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyLgTizCIRc] you give a bad name to people (such as myself) who care about actual things that actually harm people. You prattle about civility but give a free pass to those who blatantly accuse other editors of conspiring to suppress coverage of women and so on. Turn that high-powered perception on yourself, busybody. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:49, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
::::Hi EEng. I've been polite and only pointed out that you are being offensive. And you continue to do so. "Woke scold" is a new one! What you're doing is edit warring and escalating the situation and doesn't need to happen. If you don't like the truth, that's fine. But what you're doing is wrong and I'll say so. Notice I've not called you names or made any aspersions on your character. I said you did one thing wrong. You should admit your mistake and move on. [[User:Megalibrarygirl|Megalibrarygirl]] ([[User talk:Megalibrarygirl|talk]]) 14:46, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::Behold the sermonizing social justice warrior on her high horse, clothed magnificently in dudgeon! So supremely arrogant is she in the certainty of her moral superiority! Christ, you lack even the modesty to qualify your opinions{{snd}}phrases such as ''I think'' and ''it seems to me'' are traditional ways of reminding yourself that maybe, just <u>maybe</u>, you're just one editor among many, though of course they're unnecessary if you know you're always right. Maybe that's it.
:::::A polite woke-scold (e.g. {{Tq|If you don't like the truth, that's fine}}) is still a woke-scold. If by "edit warring" you mean I restored a comment{{snd}}a comment ''you'' removed{{nbsp}}... from a discussion of something ''you'' wrote{{nbsp}}... because ''you'' disliked it or couldn't understand it{{snd}}then you better give [[WP:TPO]] another read, Madame Administrator.
:::::Every liberation movement goes through its ''That's not funny!'' stage, and the sooner that's over the better. No doubt you mean well, but you need an emergency injection of perspective, proportion, history, and humility. I'm a gay man who was fighting the good fight{{snd}}and not by sitting behind a library desk in a pussy hat, I assure you{{snd}}when you were in diapers, so I require no enlightenment about oppression and injustice. The next time you remove another editor's comment because it doesn't conform to your self-righteous standards I'll have you at ANI so fast it'll make your head spin. Signal your trendy virtues some other way. Got it?
:::::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC) P.S. Here, put this [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=next&oldid=882427637] in your pipe and smoke it.
[[File:Upside down sign, Chagford - geograph.org.uk - 898270.jpg|thumb|"You appear to be reading the situation upside down"]]
EEng, I think I know {{u|Megalibrarygirl}} pretty well. It's not my business to repeat what I've been told in confidence, but I will say she thinks Trump is a raving lunatic too and Boris Johnson is just missing the clown car. You are picking on the wrong target,  If you think she is a "sermonizing social justice warrior on her high horse", you are so far out of whack on this one, you're in a different area code. She is not a shrinking violet ''at all''. I mean, she's a flippin' ''atheist in Texas'' - what more evidence do you need? Now, in the words of [[Dr Evil]], zip it. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 18:34, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
: A car? Who [https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/07/23/15/16396378-7276927-image-a-45_1563892483012.jpg needs it] !! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:25, 8 March 2020 (UTC) <small>p.s. I'd just like to point out that EEng is [[Papal infallibility|never wrong]], and even when he is he's [[Woke Up This Morning|totally woke]].</small>
::[https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=944151145#Easy_to_misread] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:54, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
:Well hello there, Ritchie.  How good it is to see you around again; for a while we feared we might have lost you. You seem to be reading the situaton upside down:
:*I'm not picking the wrong target, nor indeed any target. She picked me.
:*I never doubted that she and I probably agree on most social and political issues, and I don't know where you'd get the idea I might think otherwise.
:*Nor would I imagine she's a shrinking violet. Her problem's the opposite: she confuses her personal opinions{{snd}}even on something as subjective as a joke{{snd}}with what she calls "the truth", to the extent that she thinks it's OK remove others' discussion posts in violation of TPO because, well, she knows the truth. That's the behavior of armchair social justice warriors of the woke-scold variety, and as you know I have little patience for such hubris, ''especially'' from those on the thinking end of the political spectrum, who should know better.
:She had plenty of chances to back off and agree to disagree, but no. Perhaps she'll think twice should a similar situation arise in future. 
:[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:54, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
::EEng, I think you're confused. I'm not picking on you. In fact, I've barely interacted with you. I only pointed out that one joke in the comments on the Signpost article was offensive and removed it to promote civility on Wikipedia. It would have been easier to just leave it off, but you don't want to do that. The joke is most likely going to stay up on Signpost, a place that should be neutral, since no one wants to start an edit war over a joke. Fine. I don't want to edit war either, but I also don't appreciate your personal attacks. It's really petty of you and shows you can't take criticism. Your joke is both regressive and offensive. If something is offensive to a group of people ''even if you don't think it is'' it's still offensive. Not sure why you don't understand that. I've said my piece, I spoke the truth and that's that. If you want to talk more, ping me. But leave off the sermonzing about who you think I am and how you think I should act. [[User:Megalibrarygirl|Megalibrarygirl]] ([[User talk:Megalibrarygirl|talk]]) 20:18, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

[[File:Donald Drumpf.jpg|thumb|[[In My Country There Is Problem]]]]
::::Ultimately, I don't like to see two of my favourite editors slugging it out with each other. You both make enormous contributions to the encyclopedia and Wikipedia is a better place for having you both around. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 20:49, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
::::None of us can really say whether or not a joke is offensive to a group of people; we can only say it's offensive to us, individually. I've seen people say or do things on Wikipedia that I think are obviously and egregiously antisemitic. But I can't speak on behalf of ''all'' Jews, so it wouldn't be appropriate for me to assert that something was antisemitic or offensive to Jews–I can only speak for myself. And speaking for myself, I can say that I strongly agree with Ritchie about not liking to see two good editors going at it. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|<span title="The material within this comment is possibly inaccurate or nonfactual.">dubious</span>]] – [[User talk:Levivich#top|discuss]]'']</sup> 21:03, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
::::Ah, just a regular day down at [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYsg69LWSvM Sootypedia]. [[Sweep (puppet)|Sweepevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:08, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::Completely agree with all three of you. Now stand aside while I finish this off... [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:38, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Jesus, will you get clue? In '''''<big>==>YOUR OPINION<===</big>''''' it's offensive. Can you really not see that it's just '''''<big>==>YOUR OPINION<===</big>''''', that everyone else need not kowtow{{refn|1=I've checked and so far as I can see, ''kowtow'' is not considered a culturally insensitive term. But maybe you know better. If you prefer I'll substitute ''genuflect'' [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvhYqeGp_Do#t=1m21s]. -[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]]}}{{refn|[[2020 coronavirus outbreak on cruise ships#Grand Princess|Darned Chinks]]. I'm so [[Offensive realism|offended]], <s>I've resigned twice.</s> 
 I'm in [[The Beast in the Cellar|self-isolation]] for 14 days. -[[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]])}} to '''''<big>==>YOUR OPINION<===</big>''''' and that it's not OK for you to remove another editor's post based on '''''<big>==>YOUR OPINION<===</big>'''''? Apparently you still haven't reviewed [[WP:TPO]] as previously recommended, and maybe try taking a hint from the ever-wise Levivich and let someone ''actually offended'' (if there be any) speak for themselves; this isn't a schoolyard and you're not the teacher.
:::As for {{tq|leave off the sermonzing about who you think I am and how you think I should act}}{{snd}}I can only interpret that as unconscious self-parody. I'm sure you're a nice person, and as said before I know you mean well, but these tautologies that begin by assuming that '''''<big>==>YOUR OPINION<===</big>''''' is obviously the truth are beyond tiresome. Give the broken record a rest now. Really. Tomorrow morning I have to play the authority figure and will be expected to say wise things, so I just haven't got time.
:::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:38, 8 March 2020 (UTC) P.S. {{U|Levivich}}, this might be a good time for you to break the tension with a Burma-Shave. Or not.
{{reflist-talk}}
:::::Hoping that I am missing something here, but can anyone explain to me why using Chink in the above context is okay? Perhaps helpful if I copy the Wikipedia page introduction {{xt|is an English-language ethnic slur usually referring to a person of Chinese descent.[2] The word is also sometimes indiscriminately used against people who look and have an East Asian appearance. The use of the term is considered offensive}}. '''<span style="background:#B1810B; padding:2px; border-style:solid; border-width:1px">[[User:Kees08|<span style=color:#FFFFFF;">Kees08</span>]][[User talk:Kees08|<span style=color:#FFFFFF;"> (Talk)</span>]]</span>''' 22:30, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::I'd be interested in hearing the answer to {{u|Kees08}} question too. [[User:SQL|<span style="font-size:7pt;color: #fff;background:#900;border:2px solid #999">SQL</span>]][[User talk:SQL|<sup style="font-size: 5pt;color:#999">Query me!</sup>]] 22:41, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, I'd be interested too. You're missing a diagnosis. It's not as if it's clearly been used in an ironic way, is it. There aren't even any [[Chinese characters|irony marks]]. [[Wuhan Institute of Virology|Disgusted of Wuhan Wells]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:50, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
{{od|3}}
[[File:BurmaShaveSigns Route66.jpg|thumb|350px|left|alt=Big mistake / many make / rely on horn / instead of / brake / Burma-shave|Applicable to more than just driving. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|<span title="The material within this comment is possibly inaccurate or nonfactual.">dubious</span>]] – [[User talk:Levivich#top|discuss]]'']</sup> 21:45, 8 March 2020 (UTC)]]
{{clear}}
*Levivich, will you marry me? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:49, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
*:[[No homo]]. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|<span title="The material within this comment is possibly inaccurate or nonfactual.">dubious</span>]] – [[User talk:Levivich#top|discuss]]'']</sup> 21:59, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
*::[[Breeder reactor|Breeder]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:01, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
*:::<small>I think you can get a [[Chernobyl New Safe Confinement|device]] for that. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:13, 8 March 2020 (UTC)</small>
{{od|3}}
<small>Scolding that that last batch of jokes are regressive/offensive/exclusionary goes here:</small>


----


==="Intelligent" discussion begins ''(heading by EEng, scarequotes by [[User:PackMecEng]])''===
*Just in case it will matter to you, I think you happen to be in the wrong here. We all make mistakes, and we should all try to listen with an open mind to other people when they tell us we've made one. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 16:54, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
*::<small>Note, I didn't create this section, and so I'm not responsible for the title, and I make no claim that anything I've every done was "intelligent". [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 16:11, 10 March 2020 (UTC)</small>
*:::<small>For the record I appreciate your intelligent intervention. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:51, 10 March 2020 (UTC)</small>
*:What you think does matter to me, actually. I'm always open to reasoned discussion on something like this because I recognize that my humor is sometimes a bit, um, shall we say... edgy (plus I'm always interested in learning more about why people find things funny or not funny, in any context). But because of Megalibrarygirl's precipitate action, that's not what this is about; it's about one editor setting up her personal judgment as overriding and unerring, and being unable to recognize that ''that'' was a mistake (and contrary to WP behavioral guidelines as well). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:18, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
*::I vote for trouts all around - I don't think MLG should have unilaterally removed your comment given her position (would have been more appropriate to either ask you to remove it or start a discussion), and I don't think you should have continued adding it after it was removed. This isn't a hill worth dying on for either of you, and I suggest both of you just take a deep breath and [[Frozen (2013 film)|let it go]]. <sup><small>[[User:Creffpublic|creffpublic]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-8ex"><small>a [[User:Creffett|creffett]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:Creffett|talk to the boss]]) 20:29, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
*:::I have no plans on dying, but self-appointed scolds are a particular sore point with me. Had MLG simply offered her opinion, a quite possible outcome would have been that I would have found something even funnier to post in a different vein{{snd}}strange how constraint can liberating in that way. But instead she took the in-your-face approach, and I just don't take that lying down ''especially'' from mop-holders.{{pb}}I let it go with my post 3 days ago timestamped 22:31, 6 March 2020 (UTC), but MLG just keeps coming back for more. I have little doubt, however, that she's learned her lesson and won't do this again{{snd}}to anyone. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:32, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
*::One question seems to me to be how to determine whether something (say a joke) is offensive. Surely you agree that just because a joke was not intended to be offensive does't mean that it isn't offensive? Correct? So how ''do'' you determine whether something is offensive? Do a certain number of people need to be offended before something can said to be offensive? Maybe is not zero or one, maybe something is more or less offensive depending on the number of people who find it offensive? So even if only one person finds something offensive, then it *is* offensive, just not very? So what should one do if someone tells you they think one of your jokes is offensive? I guess it depends on how generous you want to be. For me, if some thinks one of my jokes is offensive&mdash;even if I think they are the only one who thinks so&mdash;I think my response would be to apologize, and retract it. It seems to me to just a matter of simple politeness. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 11:40, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*:::Better questions might be: why does it matter if a joke is considered by some to be offensive or not? Is there such a thing as an inoffensive joke? Should an offensive joke be treated differently than an offensive non-joke statement? Is making an offensive statement (joke or non-joke) a problem that requires correction? Only then can you get to: how many people have to think it’s offensive before it’s considered offensive? The base assumption i chafe at is the notion that a joke is some kind of frivolity, whereas being offended is an actual injury of some sort. I disagree with both characterizations. Just as I disagree with the characterization in this section heading. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|<span title="The material within this comment is possibly inaccurate or nonfactual.">dubious</span>]] – [[User talk:Levivich#top|discuss]]'']</sup> 15:54, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*::::{{yo|Levivich}} Sorry, I'm not following you. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Or something else altogether? Note as I've written above: ''I didn't create this section, and so I'm not responsible for the title, and I make no claim that anything I've every done was "intelligent".'' [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 16:11, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*::::::I've clarified that I inserted the heading of this subsection. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:15, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*:::::{{anchor|Levivichx}} {{yo|Paul August}}, I'm disagreeing fundamentally that a joke should be retracted because it offends one or even more than one person. (Also, I didn't mean the header comment as a criticism of you or as implying that this conversation wasn't intelligent; rather, I think the conversation above the header was also intelligent.) The joke, as all good jokes, brought an important truth to light. In the context of an article about "invisible women" – about how women are overlooked by the history books – EEng made a joke about [[non-binary gender]]. This has many layers of meaning. First, it reminds the reader that non-binary people are, today, right now, the "invisible people", just as women once were (and, in many ways, still are). A second layer is that by looking at a picture of people who appear to be women and calling them "women", we are assuming their gender identity–something that modern society is trying to get away from. Calling them the first "non-binary" programmers (because they were programming analog computers) is a clever way of linking the struggles of women in the past to the struggles of non-binary people today, while simultaneously noting how language (here, the meaning of "non-binary") can change over time, just as social attitudes and oppressed group's rights and privileges can change over time. All in all, it's a clever way to say, "don't forget there are still invisible people today, and they're not just women". And this message was better delivered as a picture with a funny caption than as a long paragraph of text as I have provided here.
*:::::
*:::::So, should we then erase this message because – OMG! It has the word non-binary! It's a joke about non-binary! That means it's offensive! Kill it kill it kill it!! No, to me, that's just a really shallow understanding of a really deep and brilliant joke.
*:::::
*:::::Humor is a very powerful tool when it comes to changing minds, and, by extension, changing societies. It should not be discounted or eliminated based on one person's, or a small group of people's, sensibilities. At bottom, there is no such thing as an inoffensive joke. If it's not offensive, at least a little bit, it won't be funny. And if it's not funny, it won't be heard. So I think in these situations, we should leave the picture, not complain about being offended by a "non-binary joke", and instead be offended by the fact that non-binary people are even more invisible than women. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|<span title="The material within this comment is possibly inaccurate or nonfactual.">dubious</span>]] – [[User talk:Levivich#top|discuss]]'']</sup> 17:33, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*:::I ''just said'' said that, had MLG simply offered her opinion, I'd likely have recast the joke some other way. Perhaps an intelligent conversation such as this one [https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/dwarfs-little-people-and-the-m-word] could have ensued. But unilateral removal (which, I tire of repeating, TPO forbids)? ''Repeated'' unilateral removal? I've made my attitude on that abundantly clear above. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:14, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*::::Regardless of whether or not the removal was right, I'm trying to say that your response could have been more polite. Just saying ... [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 16:28, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::I started out perfectly polite [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=943990981] [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=944004666], inviting MLG to ''comment on'' what she was concerned about. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:43, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

*I tread carefully in these things, having been accused myself of being too silly on wiki-pages sometimes (although the more common accusation is that I'm too ponderously serious on wiki-pages, such as I'm being now&mdash;of course it's quite possible that both these things are true). Still, in this instance I happen to agree with those who have opined that these images and their captions are, at best, an unnecessary distraction from a significant discussion. If I'd been the first one to see them, I would probably have removed them myself, and I'm thinking through whether I still ought to do so. Also, while I'm absolutely certain this is not how the word was intended to be used here, I am also surprised that no one has observed yet that "scold," used as a noun, is perceived as having sexist connotations and, especially in reference to a specific female editor, should generally not be used. Addendum: I should add that I have a very high level of respect for your (EEng's) talents and abilities, and a disagreement on this specific item doesn't detract from that. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 16:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
*:{{U|Newyorkbrad}}, for the record I have a high level of respect for your talents and abilities, and I'm not just saying that because you're an arb and, ya know, you never know what turn things might take. I want to be sure you read Levivich's post above at [[#Levivichx]] because, while he's read in a bit more than I had in mind, by doing so he demonstrates vividly why humor is powerfully useful in getting people to think in fresh ways about important and difficult issues. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:57, 10 March 2020 (UTC) P.S. Sorry, I reject your ''scold'' scold; in modern usage the word's been fully liberated [https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS841US843&biw=1228&bih=603&tbm=bks&ei=_fRnXuiOBJipytMPnb6A-A8&q=william+bennett+%22scold%22].
*:Followup: I said earlier that discussion, instead of knee-jerk censorship, had a good chance of stimulating me to find a better way to make my point. Thanks primarily to ol' Levivich, here we go:
[[File:KayMcNultyAlyseSnyderSisStumpDifferentialAnalyzer.jpg|thumb|center|There may be some [[analog computing|non-binary]] people among those operating this [[differential analyser]], but from the historical record there's probably no way to know it.{{right|-[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]]}}]]
::{{anchor|onliberty}}I dare anyone to find offense in that.{{pb}}We turn now to the great John Stuart Mill (''[[On Liberty]]'', "Chapter II: Of the Liberty of Thought and Discussion"):
:::<small>We have now recognised the necessity to the mental well-being of mankind (on which all their other well-being depends) of freedom of opinion, and freedom of the expression of opinion, on four distinct grounds; which we will now briefly recapitulate.{{pb}}First, if any opinion is compelled to silence, that opinion may, for aught we can certainly know, be true. To deny this is to assume our own infallibility.{{pb}}Secondly, though the silenced opinion be an error, it may, and very commonly does, contain a portion of truth; and since the general or prevailing opinion on any subject is rarely or never the whole truth, it is only by the collision of adverse opinions that the remainder of the truth has any chance of being supplied.{{pb}}Thirdly, even if the received opinion be not only true, but the whole truth; unless it is suffered to be, and actually is, vigorously and earnestly contested, it will, by most of those who receive it, be held in the manner of a prejudice, with little comprehension or feeling of its rational grounds. And not only this, but, fourthly, the meaning of the doctrine itself will be in danger of being lost, or enfeebled, and deprived of its vital effect on the character and conduct: the dogma becoming a mere formal profession, inefficacious for good, but cumbering the ground, and preventing the growth of any real and heartfelt conviction, from reason or personal experience.</small>
::TLDR? ''Thinking people don't suppress; they discuss.'' [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:38, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
:::OK let's get married because you just quoted my favorite philosopher, and it was my favorite chapter of my favorite book of his, and you quoted it ''at length.'' ([[You Had Me at Hello |You had me at]] "it is only by the collision of adverse opinions that the remainder of the truth has any chance of being supplied".) [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|<span title="The material within this comment is possibly inaccurate or nonfactual.">dubious</span>]] – [[User talk:Levivich#top|discuss]]'']</sup> 19:53, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
::::I knew you'd come around, Mr. Nohomo. I usually introduce ''On Liberty'' as "the greatest piece of political philosophy ever written" but for some reason this time I hesitated for fear the discussion would get sidetracked by a debate about that. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:16, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
{{od|2}}
As I was reading through all this, on my watchlist I saw the edit summary for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EEng&diff=prev&oldid=944930097 your most recent edit]: ''{{tq|excellent in other contexts, but beside the point here}}''. In a nutshell, that's how I, and I think many others, too often feel when we see your humorous images and captions in places like the noticeboards. Please bear in mind the old aphorism that ''"a nuisance may be merely a right thing in the wrong place&mdash;like a pig in the parlor instead of the barnyard."'' And after all, no one can quarrel with that, as it's a well-known proposition of ''[https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/272/365/ Euclid].'' [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 20:01, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
:I'm the first to admit that some of my posts aim merely to break the tension or buoy spirits. But are you claiming that the image+caption above doesn't make a memorably useful point in the context of the original discussion? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:16, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
::I claim that it very foreseeably became a distraction that substantially outweighed the value of any point you intended to make in the thread. Next, diverting the thread still further to an argument about whether the image and caption should remain, with a re-posted image with a new and nasty caption of its own, was a double digression or meta-digression. Removing the images from the thread was, at a minimum, a very defensible thing to do, and your harsh and unnecessary personal comments about the editor who took the lead on trying to remove them were yet a ''further'' distraction from the original discussion. In addition, your position that you might have been willing to see the image removed after all, if you had been asked more nicely, is in tension with your position that the seeming joke actually carried substantial informational value. As for the word "scold," we'll have to agree to disagree; if you continue using it in the context of specific female editors, I predict that sooner or later a serious complaint about the connotations underlying the word will be raised. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 20:33, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::<small>"The majority of individuals punished for scolding were women, though men could also be labelled scolds." Yes, a bit like the [[Common scold|common cold]], but might be more serious and lead to [[2019–20 coronavirus outbreak|14 days "self-isolation"]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:43, 10 March 2020 (UTC) </small>
:::*You're off on the sequence of events (for which you can be excused given what a mess it was) but I'll just say that once it was explicitly asserted that it "could very easily be taken that you are making fun of non-binary people. We don't do that"{{snd}}naming me specifically as committing this alleged transgression{{snd}}there's no way I was going to leave the record uncorrected. Smallbones chose the venue by posting that where he posted it.
:::*I didn't say I'd be willing to see the image removed (though it's the caption we're really talking about), rather I said that non-kneejerk discussion had a good chance of leading to a better caption. And it finally did.
:::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:59, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

*I'm sorry, but I see nothing in your responses above that indicate to me that you are listening to or taking on board any of the constructive criticisms your fellow editors are trying to give you. It would be good if you could try harder to do that. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 14:36, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
*:No, I'm listening; I just don't agree that my original posting was inappropriate. And it seems to me that you're not listening to or taking on board what I've said: ''Discussion, not suppression''. I will now say for the final time that intelligent, non-kneejerk, non-strongarming discussion not only could have, but finally did, lead to something better. The mess in between is entirely down to one editor's ham-handed arrogation to herself of the role of censor. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:41, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
::::That you seem to believe that everything you've done here was perfectly appropriate&mdash;that you seem to believe all your critics are wrong&mdash;that you take no responsibility at all for any part of this problem&mdash;is disheartening. If you continue in the same vein I don't think this will end well. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 17:12, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
[[File:MONGO APEMAN.jpg|thumb|upright=0.6|"Even though I'm an Arbcom member, I'm just commenting here as an average, everyday editor."{{right|-[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]]}}]]
:::All of which ''still'' leaves the question whether I should remove the whole set of images and captions from that talkpage as being a disruptive distraction from the discussion. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 16:52, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
::::Why would that be a call for a single editor to make? [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|<span title="The material within this comment is possibly inaccurate or nonfactual.">dubious</span>]] – [[User talk:Levivich#top|discuss]]'']</sup> 17:14, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
::::If at the same time you remove Smallbone's public implication that I'd "attack[ed] or mock[ed] [a] group whose members include those who do not have a choice about their membership in the group", and leave (floated to the right, of course) the image with the revised caption (the one seen above in this thread{{snd}}which surely comports well with both the original essay and the discussion) I'd be perfectly happy with that. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:14, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::What point exactly are you trying to make with the gorilla image on the right? Are you saying NYB's trying to intimidate you? If so it would be better to say so directly. That's another problem with some of your images, their use as innuendo. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 19:15, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::That's the image - and caption - that [[User_talk:EEng/Archive_12#"Hands-down_the_worst_block_I've_seen_in_my_time_on_Wikipedia,_and_I've_seen_some_whoppers"|got EEng blocked in what was possibly the most incompetently vindictive block in Wikipedia's history]]. I assure you NYB will be well aware of exactly what it's meant to mean.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 19:27, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::I'm glad NYB will know what it means, however (clueless me) I still don't ;-) [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 19:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Thanks to my glittering array of {{tps}}s for saving me the trouble of explaining. I will just add that this little subplot illustrates a principle which, had it been applied to the main issue of this whole thread, would have saved a great deal of gnashing of teeth and tearing out of hair: instead of jumping in to denounce something which ''you imagine'' might offend someone else, maybe try letting the someone else speak for themselves. And for the record, if I thought that NYB was trying to intimidate me, yes, I'd just say so. Now stand by while I find a tasteless joke on ''innuendo'' (assuming Levivich or some other clown{{fbdb}} doesn't beat me to it). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:46, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::With the help of some stalkers, I found what I was looking for: this [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=893224721 brilliant chain of puns] by Guy Macon. (Key words and phrases: ''pun account in arrears''{{bullet}}''semicolonoscopy''{{bullet}}''innuendos''.) '''Please note: Guy's just coming back after a serious illness so please visit [[User talk:Guy Macon#message_from_guy's_wife|his page]] to wish him well.''' [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:49, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

(outdent) I remain convinced that those images and captions are a disruptive distraction and don't belong on that talkpage. However, given everything else that's going on right now, on Wikipedia and in the world, we don't have the luxury of enough energy and bandwidth for the drama that would probably ensue if I removed them again. Therefore, I will reluctantly drop the issue at this point. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 20:18, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
:But there's always a silver lining. With everyone sequestered at home with little to do, I expect that the NPP backlog and any open arbitration cases will be resolved with remarkable speed. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:48, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
{{Infobox referendum|name=2021 referendum on EEng's joke|yes_text=[[Image:Yes_check.svg|14px|link=|alt=]] '''Yes''', the joke was transphobic or could be construed that way|no_text=[[Image:X_mark.svg|14px|link=|alt=]] '''No''', the joke was harmless|yes=0|no=4|invalid=4{{refn|Cisgender people don't get a vote.}}|total=8}} [[User:Theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] ([[User talk:Theleekycauldron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Theleekycauldron|contribs]]) ([[Singular they|they/them]]) 16:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2020-03-01/Community_view&diff=next&oldid=944077678&diffmode=source am i reading this correctly]? i don't mean to beat the dead horse here, but... oh, who am i kidding, i'll get the glue and the club. As a non-binary person who loves computers and puns, that shit's funny as fuck—i legitimately doubled over laughing and I can't think of a single one of my many, many non-binary friends and peers who wouldn't agree, if not without a groan. With all due respect to the people who are trying to stand up for my community, talking over us is not the solution. Anyone who thinks that that joke was out of line should try growing up non-binary in a religious family—it should put things right into perspective for them. [[User:Theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] ([[User talk:Theleekycauldron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Theleekycauldron|contribs]]) ([[Singular they|they/them]]) 01:53, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
*:Like I said earlier in this thread, {{tq|instead of jumping in to denounce something which you imagine might offend someone else, maybe try letting the someone else speak for themselves}}. No doubt someone will now explain that you're so oppressed that you identify with the oppressor. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:24, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
*::Since you pinged me in your edit summary, I guess you want a response. There is no "the someone" here. Rather there are many someones. Sure it was funny, if understood, and sure some will have understood, and not be offended. But not all (perhaps not even most?) Do we not care about them? [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 21:03, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
*:::For the record, I didn't particularly ''want'' a response, though I'm happy to have it; I mostly just wanted you to see what an expert witness had to say. In answer to your question: yes I care about them, so much so that I'm trying to help them see that even the weightiest subject admits (and benefits from) a bit of levity. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:47, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
*::::That humor ''can'' be beneficial is not in dispute. And having good intentions is not an adequate defense. Results are what matter. Something is offensive if it offends, not if it was meant to offend. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 11:21, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
*:::::Sorry, but that that's an oversimplification; under your formulation there would no degrees of homicide -- ''off with their heads!'' Not only does a speaker's intent matter in and of itself, but knowledge of the speaker's intent inevitably affects the hearer's perceptions. Plus, here at WP we're supposed to assume good faith in interpreting what someone says and does, not search for offensive interpretations. When (if) someone actually offended appears on the scene we can discuss that, but for now all we've got is (a) the woke-scold fretting that someone ''could'' be offended against (b) someone actually in a position to opine affirming that they are not, in fact, offended. Perhaps {{U|Theleekycauldron}} could ask among any friends similarly situation and let us know the results. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:23, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::* After a rigorous referendum held by the Secret Society of Non-Binary People With Secret Handshakes™, ''theleekycauldron news network'' is ready to show some preliminary results and call the race. [[User:Theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] ([[User talk:Theleekycauldron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Theleekycauldron|contribs]]) ([[Singular they|they/them]]) 16:16, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::::I think you may need to [[2000 United States presidential election recount in Florida|check Florida]]. (And tell all those non-binary woke scolds to [[pear|"grow a pear"]], of course. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:27, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::{{yo|Martinevans123}} The "yes" votes, of course, won the "[[Electoral college|referendum college]]". Also, what do you mean by "non-binary woke scolds"? [[User:Theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] ([[User talk:Theleekycauldron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Theleekycauldron|contribs]]) ([[Singular they|they/them]]) 16:32, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::I'll just have to take the fifth on that one. Maybe I should add scare-quotes? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:43, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::I did get that there was sarcasm there, but i think you might've meant, like, "non-binary transphobes" or something, since they all thought the joke was fine. [[User:Theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] ([[User talk:Theleekycauldron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Theleekycauldron|contribs]]) ([[Singular they|they/them]]) 16:46, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::{{small|I sought a [[Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard|"soupsong"]] of sarcasm, but sent a [[Surfeit of Lampreys|surfeit]], it seems. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:49, 12 October 2021 (UTC)}}
::::::::::The binary woke scolds are worse: they categorize ''everything'' as either "good" or "bad". [[User:Levivich|Levivich]] 16:37, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::And their dads are so opaque and shadowy; nowhere near trans parent. [[User:Theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] ([[User talk:Theleekycauldron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Theleekycauldron|contribs]]) ([[Singular they|they/them]]) 16:40, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== John Harvard ==

The first [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Harvard_(clergyman)&oldid=4427836 substantial] version of the article had full dates, and it's standard in biographies. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 21:03, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
:I'd prefer you raise such things on the article's talk page. But whether a bio's opening parenthetical give full birth/death dates, or just years, is not a [[WP:DATERET]] issue, and "standard" (your word for ''usual'') does not mean universal or required. See [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biography#Birth_date_and_place]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:26, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
::And I'd prefer you to raise such things on the article talk page rather than continue to revert. No, "standard" means "encouraged" ie every FA I can recall features full dates. Stop twisting [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biography#Birth_date_and_place]] (which I referred you to in the full place) which states "These dates ('''specific day–month–year''') are important information about the subject" (my emphasis) and "if they are also mentioned in the body, the vital year range (in brackets after the person's full name) '''may''' be sufficient to provide context" (my emphasis). You've also conventiently ignored the first full version from 16 years aho which used full dates. Care to comment? [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 21:37, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
:::The MOS that you so adamantly point to says "if they are also mentioned in the body, the vital year range (in brackets after the person's full name) may be sufficient to provide context". So in your insistence that year ranges are insufficient, you are pushing a position that is actually in contradiction to the MOS, rather than being supported by it. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 22:15, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
::::Except of course Harvard's birth date is not mentioned in the article... [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 08:15, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::Article, infobox, whatever. The distinction matters only to checklist-obsessed scriptkiddies lacking judgment of their own. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:00, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
:::To what D.E. has said I'll just add that you keep talking about how some version from two decades ago had it, as if this is a [[WP:DATERET]] issue, which it's not. Good articles are made by applying sound editorial judgment, not filling in blanks on a form. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:12, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
::::Oh look at today's FA [[Muhammad III of Granada]] which has...full dates! [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 08:10, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::Only those inhabiting the incestuous FA bubble hold up FAs as paragons. The idea that the ''very first thing'' on which we should squander one of our most precious resources{{snd}}the reader's attention and desire to keep reading{{snd}}is the ''specific date of the year'' on which someone was born and died, as if our target demographic was astrologers, is Exhibit A for the stupidity of the FA process. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:00, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
:Something you're both forgetting - "'''may''' be sufficient". My point is that is not sufficient. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 08:21, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
::A point you assert with nothing to back it up. If you want to further pursue this preoccupation with form over substance open a thread on the article's talk page.  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:00, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
::[edit conflict] What is your explanation for why it is critical to bring the readers' attention to the date of his birth, and not just the year, as the first thing they see about him? Among the other facts that could be stated about him at equal length in the lead sentence, why is this one the most important? You are asserting this with no justification, making your argument highly unconvincing. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 17:02, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
:PS {{u|GiantSnowman}} if you want an opportunity for a bigger crusade about dates and date formats, take a look at the recent contributions of {{u|Citation bot}} (the ones where the edit summary includes "Add: date" or some other combination of additions including dates). All the added dates are in YYYY-MM-DD format. (I happen to like this format for accessdates but I don't think it's acceptable for publication dates, and they're being added as publication dates.) —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 20:55, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
::<small>Jesus, you're more pissed off about this than I am. That's a lot of pissedoffedness. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:33, 14 March 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::<small>Not at GS today, though. Instead I am pissed off about having to spend all my editing time running around after Citation bot and cleaning up its many messes, and at its owner's intransigent attitude when anyone points out that it is not housebroken. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 00:58, 15 March 2020 (UTC)</small>

== re ==
[[File:How to slap someone throught the internet (smart screen)-3580144.png|thumb|Do not disturb. I'm in the middle of important research. <small>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 01:56, 19 March 2020 (UTC)</small>]]
Would you please strike the unkind remark? [[User:Valereee|--valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 10:17, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
:Which one? I've been unkind to so many people lately. However, if you mean this [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=945985338&oldid=945763780] it sounds like you've already figured out [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=945911420] that I was parodying the unkindness of someone else. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:09, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
::{{u|EEng}}, lol...actually, you seem in general like a very kind person. :) Yes, I know you were reflecting back what someone else was putting out there, only with humor, and I certainly understood the impulse. I just this morning rewrote or deleted multiple responses to the thread. :) [[User:Valereee|--valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 13:26, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Then what was the unkind remark you want me to strike? Or perhaps you meant there's some unkind person you want me to strike? I'm rarely violent but for you I'd do it, and right now there are several people I'd be inclined to strike anyway. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:01, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
::::I don't know why we are dancing on the head of a pin with this; EEng, strike the belittling remark to do with RexxS's RfA and in your edit summary, apologise. Also, quit with the violence jokes. Aside from the jovial air in which you are doing this, Valereee, I do appreciate your efforts to finish someone else's dirty work. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px Black;">[[User:Cassianto|<span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Cassianto</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Cassianto#top|<span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Talk</span>]]</sup></span>''' 14:21, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::RexxS is exhibiting precisely the poor temperament that participants at his RfA were concerned about, and when Valereee explained how confusing a certain template's usage was he called her "inept" (and not in a joking way) so I stand by my post. And your affected hand-wringing about "violence jokes" strikes me as a low blow. Maybe sleep deprivation has made you punchy? Don't be so pugnacious. Let's all just knuckle down and get back to editing. I could give you a backhanded compliment if you want. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:19, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

==A reminder==
Just a reminder to talk-page stalkers that this is not that place to say anything that could be interpreted as implying that
:<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron whose selfishness and stupidity<br/>have put anywhere from 100,000 to 2,000,000 Americans on a conveyor belt to death since January 1{{snd}}<br/>they just haven't arrived at the crematorium yet.</center></big>
I'd ask everyone to confirm here that they understand that they shouldn't be saying that
:<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron whose selfishness and stupidity<br/>have put anywhere from 100,000 to 2,000,000 Americans on a conveyor belt to death since January 1{{snd}}<br/>they just haven't arrived at the crematorium yet.</center></big>
[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:33, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
:{{tpw|safe=yes}} I don't actually want to be the one pointing this out but I do need to remind you that contentious information about living persons is [[WP:MINREF|required to be referenced inline]] [[WP:BLPTALK|anywhere it is published on Wikipedia]], including user talk pages. If you're concerned that the information above might be considered contentious in good faith, please consider backing this up with a reliable source. I'm sure you can find one. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] (<sup>[[User talk:Ivanvector|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ivanvector|Edits]]</sub>) 14:47, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
::[[File:SMirC-chuckle.svg|x20px|^_^]] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 14:54, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Our good friend Ivanvector is absolutely correct. ''Do not'' post anything implying that
:<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron whose selfishness and stupidity<br/>have put anywhere from 100,000 to 2,000,000 Americans on a conveyor belt to death since January 1{{snd}}<br/>they just haven't arrived at the crematorium yet.</center></big>
:::without a reliable source. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:57, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
::::Fix your typo - oh, and [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/aug/26/allen-frances/pants-fire-claim-donald-trump-has-much-blood-his-h/ here] is a RS. (Not meant to encourage you).[[File:SMirC-facepalm.svg|x20px|m(]] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 15:03, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
::Question: Do the refs have to be in citation templates, or is it OK if I reference <big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic<ref name=socio>https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/07/trump-and-sociopathy/491966/
*https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-sociopath-mental-health-harvard-psychiatry-professor-1468441
*https://www.salon.com/2020/02/28/psychiatrist-sounds-the-alarm-about-sociopath-president-trump-hes-getting-worse_partner/</ref>-narcissist<ref name=narcissist>https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/29/why-trump-believes-innocent-ukraine-impeachment/
*https://www.uu.nl/en/node/541/donald-trump-textbook-narcissist
*https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/opinion/trump-narcissism.html</ref>-racist<ref name=racist>https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2019/08/14/trump-and-racism-what-do-the-data-say/
*https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history
*https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history</ref> criminal<ref name=criminal>https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/news/2020/01/21/479664/trump-committed-crimes-ukraine-shakedown/
*https://theintercept.com/2019/10/10/trump-crimes-law/
*https://theintercept.com/collections/all-presidents-crimes/
*https://www.justsecurity.org/67738/federal-criminal-offenses-and-the-impeachment-of-donald-j-trump/
*https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/01/08/make-2020-election-about-donald-trump-crimes-corruption-column/2831973001/
*https://www.citizensforethics.org/criminal-abuse-of-power-trumps-crimes-ukraine/
*https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/possible-federal-and-state-crimes/</ref> moron<ref name=moron>https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/04/trumps-insults-idiot-woodward-806455
*https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/bolton-deep-in-heart-believes-trump-is-a-moron-former-aide-claims-1.7184851
*https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/trump-moron-tillerson-publicly-confirms.html
*https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/04/donald-trump-wind-power-causes-cancer
*https://qz.com/1267508/all-the-people-close-to-donald-trump-who-called-him-an-idiot/</ref> whose selfishness<ref name=selfish>https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/president-trump-exactly-same-selfish-blowhard-i-knew-back-new-ncna818221
*https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-cia-brennan-harry-reid-1343090
*https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-national-emergency-border-wall-congress-nancy-pelosi-democrats-republicans-selfish-a8780231.html
*https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/13/reporter_to_trump_are_you_being_selfish_by_not_getting_tested_for_coronavirus.html
*https://www.thedailybeast.com/reporters-hammer-trump-on-coronavirus-testing-are-you-being-selfish
*https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/17/trump-sees-the-coronavirus-as-a-threat-to-his-self-interest-not-to-people</ref> and stupidity<ref name=stupid>https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-stupidity-of-donald-trump-1514233232
*https://www.newyorker.com/culture/2019-in-review/the-year-in-stupidity
*https://newrepublic.com/article/156113/iran-suleimani-bombing-iraq-airport-pinnacle-trumps-foreign-policy-stupidity
*https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-02/coronavirus-trumps-healthcare
*https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/trumps-unending-stupidity-sparks-chaos-as-his-administration-struggles-to-respond-to-the-coronavirus-pandemic/</ref><br/>have put anywhere from 100,000 to 2,000,000<ref name=deaths>https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/19/coronavirus-projections-us/
*https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/us/coronavirus-deaths-estimate.html</ref> Americans on a conveyor belt to death since January 1{{snd}}<br/>they just haven't arrived at the crematorium yet.</center></big> with plaintext links? [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup> 15:31, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

:::The [[WP:V|verifiability]] policy is satisfied if you've identified the source; the method by which you do so is a manual of style matter. So yeah, excepting that this might be [[WP:SYNTH]], I think we're done here. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] (<sup>[[User talk:Ivanvector|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ivanvector|Edits]]</sub>) 15:43, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
::::Maybe it would be better as two sentences to avoid Synth: <big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic<ref name=socio/>-narcissist<ref name=narcissist/>-racist<ref name=racist/> criminal<ref name=criminal/> moron.<ref name=moron/> His selfishness<ref name=selfish/> and stupidity<ref name=stupid/> have put anywhere from 100,000 to 2,000,000<ref name=deaths/> Americans on a conveyor belt to death since January 1{{snd}}<br/>they just haven't arrived at the crematorium yet.</center></big> - [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup> 15:54, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
*Actually, it should be stated that <u><b>this is not the place where</b></u> you share the opinion of [RS] who have called Trump a...yada yada,{{cn}} and the opinion of [RS] who said...{{cn}} and...well, you get the drift AND by doing it that way, you avoid SYNTH. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 16:05, 20 March 2020 (UTC) <sup>Underlined correction to align w/EEng's context. 20:04, 20 March 2020 (UTC)</sup> 
*:{{u|Atsme}}, it looks like the Museum here will be pretty busy for the next five years. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 16:17, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
*::{{u|Sir Joseph}}, what? The Dems are choosing between [[Statler and Waldorf]], how can they possibly lose?
*::
*::Honestly, all jokes aside, if that guy sends me a check for $1000 I just might vote for him. Unless Biden sends me more. Not because I think he is the best candidate, but because I want to encourage future candidates to send me cash during election years. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup> 16:20, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
::::You may be on to something, Lev!! I like your thinking. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 16:22, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
*:::{{u|Levivich}}, Actually, it's dead-even at Predictit since the Dems got smart and dumped Sanders. [https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/3698/Who-will-win-the-2020-US-presidential-election] But blaming Trump on Coroavirus is pretty stupid and also wrong. I don't like Trump, I'm also a political independent in a purple state (and I think Bloomberg was poor timing). I know Trump banned incoming flights from China and people complained. I know people will complain no matter what Trump does, but sometime he does the right thing. And sometimes the NYTimes will chop his quotes in half just to make him look bad, like when he told states to look into getting masks and supplies on their own, and then added he will be there for them and fund it. Everyone knows supply chain is best at a local level, but the NYTimes ran "President tells states, you're on your own." So why not tone down the rhetoric and stupidity. That's not what we need now. As the former (Obama-Era) FEMA chief said when he was on MSNBC right before he walked off the air, "I don't need to deal with this from bull shit people." [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 16:27, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
*::::He banned flights from China but left huge loopholes for ships' crews and so on, and pretended that walls an closed borders would solve the problem. {{tq| he told states to look into getting masks and supplies on their own, and then added he will be there for them and fund it}}{{snd}}what the fuck does "be there for them" mean??? This needs to be a full-court press, all-hands-on-deck, no-effort-or-expense-spared, every-avenue-pursued war effort. ''People are going to die'' for lack of ventilators starting in ''two to four weeks''. Every extra ventilator produced will save 10 lives over the next eight months; every mask will save 1/1000 of a life{{snd}}and President Trump{{snd}}who as I keep stressing I am not labeling a
<big><center>sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron whose selfishness and stupidity<br/>have put anywhere from 100,000 to 2,000,000 Americans on a conveyor belt to death since January 1{{snd}}<br/>they just haven't arrived at the crematorium yet</center></big>
:::::{{snd}}as late as yesterday was saying he wasn't invoking the War Production Act to order companies to start producing these vital things because "we might not need it". So get real. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:28, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
{{sources talk}}
::::::According to the [https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/?fbclid=IwAR1SLwObFfgrDmbqLQuyhZwkmUSFP91udarHPkNKkqfil6K84x4QAqBf0UE stats] and the high number of cases in New York, maybe [[Andrew Cuomo|Cuomo]] should have [https://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-governor-orders-non-essential-workers-work-from-home-2020-3 started sooner] with his [https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/nyc-mayor-eyes-sf-shelter-in-place-model-as-tri-state-cases-near-3500-27-dead/2333955/ efforts] and stop depending so much on the federal government. State governments are the ones at ground zero. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:02, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::Governors cannot invoke the War Production Act . However, Cuomo did offer companies, including startups, premium prices for robes, masks, etc.
::::::::Trump: “I take no responsibility at all.”
::::::::Cuomo: “I take responsibility, these decisions are mine. Get mad at me.”
:::::::[[User:Objective3000|O3000]] ([[User talk:Objective3000|talk]]) 21:21, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::::{{ec}} [https://www.npr.org/2020/03/18/817737690/senate-passes-coronavirus-emergency-aid-sending-plan-to-president NPR] the 18th. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:39, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::{{u|EEng}}, Have you ever dealt with the Federal government and requisitioning? Why should all the states have to put in a request for masks from DC when they can do it themselves better and cheaper if they can get it from a supplier closer to home? That's the latter part of the quote the NYTimes left out. Parly JIT and partly that Trump said he'll fund it and be there for states that need funding and supplies, but said it's best to use your own resources. The NYTimes ran with the headlines that Trump said "you're on your own." When that is not what he said or meant. And it's your vile and nasty TDS that makes me, a real independent in a purple state, who doesn't like Trump at all, vote for him because I can actually see things with a clear unbiased eye, unlike you. I apparently don't fall for Chinese propagnda.[[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 21:37, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::{{tq|"you're on your own." When that is not what he said or meant}}{{snd}}That's clearly what he meant. He has no idea what's going on or what to do. He's a compulsive, shameless liar.{{pb}}{{tq|Have you ever dealt with the Federal government and requisitioning?}}{{snd}}Yes, actually, I have, but this isn't about "requisitioning"{{snd}}we're not talking about office supplies and garbage cans. Ground was broken on the Pentagon in September 1941 and the first occupants moved in the following April; when it's important, it can get done{{snd}}if competent people are in charge.{{pb}}This has nothing to do with {{tq|Chinese propaganda}}. The Chinese government is run by selfish, greedy motherfuckers who don't give a shit about the people for whose good they're supposed to be working, or about the rest of the world; that's been true for a long time and I can't do anything about it. The sadness is that, at present, the American government is run by the very same kind of people. If you can't see that [https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/nbc-news-reporter-berated-by-trump-at-coronavirus-briefing-you-re-a-terrible-reporter-81024581674] you're delusional. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:15, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::::''Update:'' Headline today (NYT): "Former Labradoodle Breeder Tapped to Lead U.S. Pandemic Task Force"{{snd}}more Chinese propaganda, I suppose. By the way, how's that JIT thing working out? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:54, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
[[File:EOD Exercise Dublin Port (5475155376) (2).jpg|thumb|I'm going to the store - need anything? <small>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 23:10, 21 March 2020 (UTC)</small>]]
::::::::Ok, it's time for [[Buddy Hackett]]. Laughter truly is the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aww4HT5g7ig best medicine]. Hackett keeps me in stitches without having to make a single suture. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:09, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}Before I forget - don't fall for fake news telling you that all you need is a mask and gloves to go to the grocery store. It's a LIE!! Everyone else had clothes on!! [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 23:03, 21 March 2020 (UTC) 
*Wait, what?! That was not made clear from the outset. I want to be grandfathered in. [[User:Valereee|--valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 17:44, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
*:Will you settle for being grandmothered in? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 17:54, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
*::{{u|Atsme}}, yes, yes, I knew someone would bring that up. Grandfathered, grandmothered, grandxthered. Whatever pronouns and nonbinary descriptions work for the general progressive public. [[User:Valereee|--valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 19:11, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
::::{{u|Atsme}}, er, I hope it was clear that was a joke :) <small>social anxiety due to hearing crickets when making a joke</small> [[User:Valereee|--valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 16:15, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
:::::We all cool, don't worry. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:19, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
::::::[[File:SMirC-chuckle.svg|x20px|^_^]] Absolutely, Ms V - you one-upped us in a fun way!! I echo what EEng just said - 😎. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 16:28, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

===A reconsideration===

Back in March, in this very thread, I counseled my fellow editors not to post anything implying that
<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron whose selfishness and stupidity<br/>have put anywhere from 100,000 to 2,000,000 Americans on a conveyor belt to death since January 1{{snd}}<br/>they just haven't arrived at the crematorium yet</center></big>
without a reliable source. Well, it's been six months and time to take stock again. In my modest opinion we are now more than justified in stating openly what has long been obvious i.e. that
<big><center>Donald Trump is a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron whose selfishness and stupidity<br/>have put anywhere from 100,000 to 2,000,000 Americans on a conveyor belt to death since January 1{{snd}}<br/>they just haven't arrived at the crematorium yet.</center></big>
Source: [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/10/opinion/trump-woodward-coronavirus-tapes.html "Trump’s Deliberate Coronavirus Deception"] (among many others).
[[File:Donald Trump and Melania Trump at Liberty Ball Inauguration 2017.jpg|thumb|upright=0.7|And while we're on the subject, fuck you and the whore you came in on.]]
[[File:Donald Trump at Aston, PA September 39th.jpg|thumb|upright=0.7|And the whore you came in on.]]
[[File:Jared_Kushner_June_2019.jpg|thumb|upright=0.7|And the whore you came in on.]]

So it's time to get real. An elderly colleague of mine{{snd}}a World War II veteran, a fine mathematician and wonderful teacher, a man whose boots Donald Trump is not worthy to lick{{snd}}suffocated alone in a nursing home because of Trump's greed, stupidity, narcissism, and criminality. So fuck you, Donald Trump, fuck the racist father who begat such a slime bucket as you, fuck the agent of Satan who put a hole in the condom that God had intended would spare the world the stain of your existence, fuck the rest of your criminal family, fuck the morons who voted for you, and fuck any morons who vote for you again. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:15, 12 September 2020 (UTC)<br/>P.S. If you don't like the foregoing, get your head out of your ass.<br/>P.P.S. If you voted for Trump and ''aren't'' a moron, then fuck you double, since you knew better but did it anyway.
:I am so very sorry to hear about your friend, and I agree wholeheartedly with your description, your "modest opinion", and your anger. We have lost, and will continue to lose, many good people. "Fine mathematicians", kindly bus drivers, selfless healthcare workers, the nice neighbor...the list goes on and on. We value the kind  comfort and wisdom of an "older friend", the human potential of those just a bit, and even quite a bit younger..each person is such a dreadful loss. "No man is an island entire of itself;...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind." Donne expressed it so well. With sorrow for your loss, <b>[[User:Tribe of Tiger|<span style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Tribe of Tiger</span>]] [[User Talk:Tribe of Tiger|<sup style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Let's Purrfect!</sup>]]</b> 04:16, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
::Your thoughtful words are most comforting, as is the vision of Donald Trump being sodomized in hell by Russian whores wearing red-hot barbed-iron strap-ons while Melania sticks needles into his tiny, misshapen penis. Satan was on Fox News the other night explaining it all, and complaining about the headaches Trumps's causing him. He's had to build acres of new tortures just for the Cabinet alone, and Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Tojo, and Pol Pot are up in arms because the VIP wing is full and one of them's gonna have to bunk with Trump, which none of them wants to do because he's so stupid and boring. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:49, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
:::You are most welcome. The devastation that one, unprincipled, dishonorable person in a supreme position of power can cause is truly horrifying. And quite terrifying. In your creative imaginings, I think the lying tongue would be first to go. Please, try to remember the good experiences with your dear friend, who is free from suffering. Imagine the knowledge that is now clear to him, the mathematical joys and marvels of the universe! I hope some good thoughts of what "Heaven" is like for your dear friend will give you some comfort. I know you are suffering, and again, I am so very, very sorry. Sending you a nice, My Cat Jeoffry "Tiger" hug, Sincerely, <b>[[User:Tribe of Tiger|<span style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Tribe of Tiger</span>]] [[User Talk:Tribe of Tiger|<sup style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Let's Purrfect!</sup>]]</b> 08:07, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
:Let me attempt to offer some comfort about your loss, as well. Also, as it happens, a few days ago I watched [[Downfall (2004 film)]] (on South American river prime). I highly recommend the film, by the way. But something that struck me as I was watching was how much of the film revolves around various Nazi military brass telling Adolf, with Berlin burning all around, that they could not prevail, to which the revered leader would respond with a combination of blaming everyone except himself, and promising that some half-baked inspiration that just came to him would save the day. The generals would cower until one would get up the nerve to suggest very gently that it would not be possible (by a long shot), and the supreme one would hear nothing of it, certain that his own unique brilliance would prove infallible. I may be breaking [[Godwin's law]], but it felt eerily familiar. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:50, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
::Thank you, my friend. Of course, while Hitler was fairly intelligent and surrounded himself with reasonably competent (if corrupt) people, Trump's saving grace is that he's a moron who surrounds himself with other morons who can't pour water out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel. Now back to our regular programming....
::It never gets old:
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YEhNHNydIs Hitler finds out Donald Trump has won the presidential election]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjHzWtuK-RY Hitler can't pay for dinner]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7SRGSFYow Hitler hates flying coach]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJKg9wDrsl4 Hitler's Nutella goes missing]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5R0UHGh8vA Hitler gets Covid and has to quarantine]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_EqJz0djAw Hitler can't get his Amazon Prime deliveries due to Covid]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6K0wdcucJE Himmler fails to unclog the toilet]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYSMm0Oj5HU Hitler's uncontrollable farting problem] ''<== Curator's top pick''
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fixtXP0aJI0 Hitler is stuck in slow motion]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwZnrpRMJfs Hitler rants like a chipmunk]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYk8ofhYFY Hitler hates the ''Downfall'' parodies]
::*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqqxRPZdfvs Hitler still hates the ''Downfall'' parodies]
::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:55, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

== Warning ==

[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at [[:Vernon Coleman]]. Your edits appear to constitute [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Repeated vandalism may result in the [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|loss of editing privileges]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-vandalism2 -->  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.7.91.66|213.7.91.66]] ([[User talk:213.7.91.66#top|talk]]) 13:51, 20 March 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Thanks for the heads-up on Wikipedia policy, IP-with-six-edits! (Article now at AfD.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:59, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
::[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please refrain from making constructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be [[Wikipedia:V|verifiable]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Main Page|main page]]. Repeated good edits may result in [[WP:FA|featured articles]] or [[Wikipedia:RfA|nomination for adminship]] to keep you away from article writing. Thank you. [[User:Creffett|creffett]] ([[User talk:Creffett|talk]]) 15:14, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Whoa.  That's harsh.  --[[User:A D Monroe III|A&#8239;D&#8239;Monroe&#8239;III]]<sup>([[User talk:A D Monroe III#top|talk]])</sup>  21:42, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

== Double palindrome Burma-Shave haiku ==

{{Burma-shave|"WONTON ON SALAD?|ALAS, NO, NOT NOW", HE GAVE|"MADAM, I'M ADAM!"}} 
Improvements welcome. – [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup> 15:48, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
:{{Burma-shave|<big><big><big><big>🤯</big></big></big></big>|<big><big><big>🤯</big></big></big>|<big><big>🤯</big></big>|<big>🤯</big>||layout=horizontal}} 
I provided an exploding ''palindome'' instead. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 13:54, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

== Rear admiral (lower half) ==
Hello. I just wanted to reply to the question you left on [[User talk:Illegitimate Barrister|Illegitimate Barrister's talk page]]. So, technically, there is no actual ''upper half'' as it is actually now an informal term. When an officer is promoted to two-star rank, the rank is just called '''rear admiral'''. Another informal term for two-star rank is a ''full rear admiral''. Prior to World War II, the Navy didn't have a one-star rank. All captains were promoted to rear admiral (two-star). A more ridged pay grade scale was established during World War II and the Navy split the pay for the more junior rear admirals into the one-star pay grade in order to match the Army and Marine Corps rank of brigadier general and called them ''lower half'' rear admirals, the remaining more senior rear admirals were paid equal to major generals, and where designated the ''upper half'' of rear admirals. But regardless of they were paid at the lower half or the upper half of the pay scale, they were all officially two-star rear admirals, which did not sit well with the Army and Marine Corps, because the rear admirals being paid at the "lower half" of the pay scale, still outranked the one-star brigadier generals who received equal pay as the "lower half" rear admirals. The Navy temporarily established the one-star rank of commodore that did solve this problem until the rank was eliminated after the war. A permanent naval one-star rank was not established until the 1981 as commodore admiral. Since 1983, that one-star rank was renamed to it's current inception as rear admiral (lower half). [[User:Neovu79|Neovu79]] ([[User talk:Neovu79|talk]]) 03:22, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
:''For those playing along at home, this relates to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=950639057#Rear_Admiral_(lower_half)].''
:That's all well and good, but if they only use the lower half of the rear of the admiral, what they do with the rest of him (or her). I've heard food on ships is terrible, so maybe that's related? See [https://www.google.com/search?q=kliban+what+did+new+york+do&source=lnms&tbm=isch]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:41, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
::You're failing your public here, EEng. The title of this section is just crying out for an image. [[User:Phil Bridger|Phil Bridger]] ([[User talk:Phil Bridger|talk]]) 07:54, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
:::Your wish is my command:

{{multiple image 
 | align = center 
 | header = Rank and File<br/>
 | width = 200
 | image1 = Leer - Neue Straße - Garrelscher Garten - Kommen und Gehen 08 ies.jpg
 | alt1 = bronze art
 | caption1 = Rear admiral (lower half)
 | image2 = It is a cooked chicken for Christmas 2014-01-02 15-46.jpg
 | alt2 = roasted chicken
 | caption2 = Full bird private
 }}
:::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
::::I prefer the rank of [[Specialist_(rank)#Specialist_(1955–present)|full bird private]], myself. [[User:Creffett|creffett]] ([[User talk:Creffett|talk]]) 18:58, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::I couldn't resist, Private Creffett. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 00:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

== Museum of misnomers? ==

From [[Library of Congress Living Legend]]: {{tqq|By 2019, without new membership, a majority of the Living Legends had died.}} [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup> 22:58, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
:Similarly, most of the French Academy's "Immortals" [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/03/world/europe/academie-francaise-france-deadlock.html] are dead -- see [[List_of_members_of_the_Académie_française]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:37, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

== Please don't ==
provide an image to illustrate the title [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Purging misconduct|Purging misconduct]]. It would spoil my breakfast. [[User:Phil Bridger|Phil Bridger]] ([[User talk:Phil Bridger|talk]]) 21:08, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
:I was tempted actually, but a photo of someone vomiting [[File:49-aspetti_di_vita_quotidiana,_vomito,Taccuino_Sanitatis,_Ca.jpg|160px]] is too obvious, our photos of Soviet purges [[File:Radek%27s_action.jpg|160px]] aren't obvious enough, and we don't even have a photo of [[Amy Vanderbilt|Miss Conduct]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:52, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
:😂 [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 14:09, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
::Come on down..... it's [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8GK558oaRg Danny's Early Purge Special]!! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:22, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

== Personal attacks ==

Today you've called me [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2020_April_24&curid=63750568&diff=953148983&oldid=953095365 "naive", "sophomoric"], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2020_April_22&curid=63728089&diff=953184168&oldid=953183294 "crazy"]. Please stop. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to make your points without being demeaning and insulting. [[User:Toohool|Toohool]] ([[User talk:Toohool|talk]]) 04:29, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
:Those were not personal attacks, but a description of actions and/or situations. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 04:31, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
::Judging someone as inexperienced (naive) is not a personal attack, nor is saying that the situation is "getting crazy". However calling someone "sophomoric" is. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 10:57, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
:::But it is my understanding that, in this case, EEng was referring to the "analysis" as sophomoric, rather than the editor in question themselves. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 11:01, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
::::No way sophomoric is a PA. If someone is acting overconfident and immature, then they are being sophomoric, and saying so isn't "attacking" them. Not every criticism of a person is an "attack". Just like the common example: saying "you're acting like an asshole" is a criticism, not a personal attack; saying "you are an asshole" is a personal attack. Anyway, that's my 2 cents, assholes. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup> 14:07, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::::^^😂 <small>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 01:06, 27 April 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::::Oh common on, so your saying that If I want to get away with calling someone "a dirty slimy mother-fucking rotten low life asshole" all I have to do say is: "You are acting like a dirty slimy mother-fucking rotten low life asshole"?  [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 14:21, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::But the latter statement isn't "getting away" with something. In O these many long years I have, now and then, had occasion to say to my boyfriend, "You know what -- you were acting like a complete asshole [the other day / with that hotel clerk / to the innocent person who was clearly mixed up / whatever]". That's ''completely different'' from saying, "You know what? You're a complete asshole", which would quite possibly be the beginningn of the end of the relationship. We all play the asshole now and then, and there's a huge difference between helping someone see that in a particular situation -- e.g. "You're being an asshole" -- and condemning someone as a blanket generality -- e.g. "Donald Trump is an asshole" (not that, of course, I'd ever say that here on WP without citing appropriate sources [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=953263777#A_reminder]). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:25, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::Yes, exactly. Another example: "Your mother smells of elderberries" is a clear personal attack, but "you're acting like someone whose mother smells of elderberries" is a perfectly acceptable social criticism. But seriously, it's not a personal attack to say someone is acting overconfident or acting immature, and thus it's not a personal attack to say someone is acting sophomoric. "Sophomoric" isn't an insult like "asshole" or "elderberry". WP:NPA doesn't say "never criticize". [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup> 14:29, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::Saying ''someone whose mother smells of elderberries'' might be construed as a compliment, whereas saying ''someone whose mother smells like [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dingleberries dingleberries]''...uhm, no. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 01:14, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::: English is such a wonderful language, so many words, so many nuances allowed, so better able to describe the real world, where things are not black or white but shades of grey. There are shades of niceness and meaness. You can be nicer or meaner. Saying someone is "sophomoric" is meaner than calling them "inexperienced". Bottom line "sophomoric" is a pejorative. No way around it. And by the way I think you are acting like a dirty slimy mother-fucking rotten low life asshole, no offense intended ;-) [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 15:41, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::Make that [[Fifty Shades of Grey (film)|50 shades of grey]] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 01:18, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::Maybe EEng thought the editor was a freshman and trying to compliment them? [[User:Creffett|creffett]] ([[User talk:Creffett|talk]]) 19:17, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::<small>You have to watch out for EEng. He's the one who put the [[AGM-124 Wasp|wasp]] in [[The Wasps|waspish]]. Probably deserves a trout... maybe even a [https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sophomoronic Lee Trout]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:02, 26 April 2020 (UTC) </small>
::::::::A long time ago I had a colleague from Ukraine. His English was very good but nonetheless there was room for improvement. We both enjoyed movies so we used to see one together now and then. One night we came out of the cinema and he pointed to the sky: "Look! There is the Mars!" So I chuckled and explained that, for whatever reason, in English the earth is "the earth" and the moon is "the moon", but Mars is just "Mars" and Venus is just "Venus" and so on. He said, "I see. Well, it's just one more of the nuisances of English." One step, two steps later, something began to nag at the back of my mind. With each additional step the nagging got stronger. Six, seven, eight paces. ''Nuisances ... nuisances ... nuisances.'' A few more steps and it hit me. "Wait ... you mean ''nuances???''" He said: "Yes, yes. That's what I meant. Nuances." That was the most delicious moment. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:42, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
*For those playing along at home, this goes back to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/?oldid=413103170#File:Ruby_shoots_Oswald.jpg]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:07, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

== Mrgendering ==

[[File:Mr Coffee Coffee Maker.JPG|thumb|upright=.7|Mr Coffee]]Touché. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep </span><span style="color:red">fried </span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]]</b> [[User talk:Deepfriedokra]] 09:36, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 
{{clear}}

== Dr. Young's Ideal Rectal Dilators ==

I just... can't stop staring at the pageview graph of Dr. Young's Ideal Rectal Dilators. So many questions come to mind. and also that picture should garner more accolades imo --[[User:Mvbaron|Mvbaron]] ([[User talk:Mvbaron|talk]]) 14:53, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
[[File:Annotation 2020-06-04 165032.jpg|thumb|right]]
:Somebody or other's birthday. -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy''' <small>the elfin dog </small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 14:56, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
::Is the picture at right depicting such a dilator?  It seems somewhat... aggressive, and I'm worried about the purpose of the serrated-teeth structures of the lower part.  --[[User:A D Monroe III|A&#8239;D&#8239;Monroe&#8239;III]]<sup>([[User talk:A D Monroe III#top|talk]])</sup>  01:44, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

* Following your interest in this and other anatomical topics, you may be interested in [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Small penis|this one]], too.  This would be an academic interest, of course – no offence intended. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew]]🐉([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 10:45, 27 June 2020 (UTC){{confused?}}
*:Blow it out your ass! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:05, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

== Nobility ==

I feel like you missed an opportunity to try to have [[baby mama]] and [[baby daddy]] endorsed as encyclopedic terms in the context of nobility. [[User:Pburka|pburka]] ([[User talk:Pburka|talk]]) 00:57, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
:You refer, of course, to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=960973257&oldid=960966596]. Well there're certainly  [[Descendants_of_George_III_and_Charlotte_of_Mecklenburg-Strelitz#Illegitimate_grandchildren|plenty of places such terminology would come in handy]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:15, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

== Engvar and MOS ==

Hi, I'd always assumed AmEng was used in MOS, simply because it was the first to appear when the page was initially under construction. [[User:Tony1|<b style="color:darkgreen">Tony</b>]] [[User talk:Tony1|<span style="color:darkgreen">(talk)</span>]] 05:18, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
:But you see, MOS (and therefore [[MOS:ARTCON]]) doesn't apply to MOS, indeed doesn't apply to anything outside article space. (Exception: ACCESSIBILITY, though nominally a MOS subpage, applies everywhere.) It's probably a good idea that each individual essay or policy be self-consistent, but MOS is so sprawling that's probably impossible anyway, and its internal variety is a fun reminder of the Wikipedia [[Salad bowl (cultural idea)|salad bowl]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:00, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

::Is it me, or does "Engvar and Mos" sound like an early 20th century detective drama series? "I say, Engvar old chap, bit of a sticky wicket over here." "Yes, I can see what happened there Mos, bit of a top-ho there." [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 15:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
:::Or maybe a law firm, like [[Dewey, Cheatem & Howe]] or [[State of nature|Solitary, Poor, Nasty, Brutish & Short]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
::::American English, British English, it is all English!  One of the things that [[MS-DOS|DS-MOS]] uses. <span style="font-variant: small-caps;">[[User:Awesome Aasim|A]][[User_talk:Awesome Aasim|a]][[special:contribs/Awesome Aasim|s]][[Special:EmailUser/Awesome Aasim|i]][[Special:Log/Awesome Aasim|m]]</span> 06:57, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

== Implausible album cover art ==

Sadly, [https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51205043_10218374949547890_4837119115103567872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=woyoRMhqSNsAX_YwTGn&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=ee15a77f520318f6b64239b7b4b4b1a5&oe=5F0FA0AB this] and [https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51237834_10218375139992651_5512838893784793088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=KYJMo38nzYcAX9GKZZw&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=4f2259a52b345451b2dcd896928e1b70&oe=5F0FE123 this] appear to be fakes.

[https://img.discogs.com/o3nCBCIuxpb9t9DLnKsBwKVRU_M=/fit-in/225x225/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6458340-1419757976-3627.jpeg.jpg This], however is 100% kosher.

Can I interest you in a [[NSFW]] genuine photo of an Irish police horse on duty? [[User:Narky Blert|Narky Blert]] ([[User talk:Narky Blert|talk]]) 20:36, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

== dogma drama ==

[[File:Terrier_mixed-breed_dog.jpg|thumb|upright=0.7|That's ruff.<small>  --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b></small>]]Here, I'm giving this to someone with a refined sense of humor capable of appreciating it. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 20:13, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
:Someone as degraded as you will enjoy [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=701833667#Degrees_of_irony]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:41, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

=="Kung Flu"?==
So considering that our dear leader has recently taken to using the term "Kung flu" to describe the pandemic, are we to suppose&mdash;see above&mdash;this is a case of great minds thinking alike, or is he reading this page? For my money "moo goo gai pandemic" would have been the smarter choice. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 21:05, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
:He definitely reads this page. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:19, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

== Brooks ==

Friendly feedback, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Killing_of_Rayshard_Brooks&curid=64266805&diff=965533199&oldid=965516627 this] is an unfortunate choice of place to take a stand even if you are within the letter of WP:TALK. Visual jokes on the talk page of an article about a recent homicide are crass at best, and based on your extensive record of carefully considered editing I am optimistic that you will step back and re-assess. [[User:VQuakr|VQuakr]] ([[User talk:VQuakr|talk]]) 23:36, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
:I appreciate your taking the time to drop by. I am not taking a stand, though I suppose Bus Stop may choose to{{snd}}we shall see. Maybe some people can edit on topics laying bare the worst humanity has to offer, day in and day out, without a laugh break, but I'm not one of those stoics. I'll note that I am regularly thanked for these little gestures{{snd}}and not just by the disreputable rabble who hang out here on this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcb4_QwP6fE wretched hive of scum and villainy]{{snd}}so I'm afraid I'll take those thanks over the complaints of [[Mrs. Grundy]].{{pb}}BTW anyone who didn't like ''that'' joke most certainly won't like [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=965140190]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
::Possibly not. All the best. [[User:VQuakr|VQuakr]] ([[User talk:VQuakr|talk]]) 01:04, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

=== Your added images ===

Hi EEng—why are you adding/restoring images to the [[Talk:Killing of Rayshard Brooks#Criminal history|Criminal history]] section [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Killing_of_Rayshard_Brooks&diff=965169728&oldid=965167996 here] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Killing_of_Rayshard_Brooks&diff=965273192&oldid=965259272 here] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Killing_of_Rayshard_Brooks&diff=965533199&oldid=965516627 here]? Why are you doing that? [[User:Bus stop|Bus stop]] ([[User talk:Bus stop|talk]]) 00:23, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

:EEng is contributing to the talk page in EEng's usual style.  If you don't like the contribution, you can either comment to say so in the discussion, or just ignore it.  One of those two options takes no effort and doesn't waste other editors' time.  --[[User:A D Monroe III|A&#8239;D&#8239;Monroe&#8239;III]]<sup>([[User talk:A D Monroe III#top|talk]])</sup>  00:36, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

== Have you read ==

''[https://www.springer.com/journal/11123 J Prod Anal]''? [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]]&nbsp;–&nbsp;[[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup> 05:49, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
:Its penetrating investigations are complemented by in-depth reporting. Harvard's catalog adds candidly{{snd}}AND I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP{{snd}}''Frequency note: Irregular'' [http://id.lib.harvard.edu/alma/990016195750203941/catalog]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:25, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

== Fan club ==

You've got [rb.gy/ydvby9 some fans]. [[User:GreenMeansGo|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color:#07CB4B">G</span><span style="color:#449351">M</span><span style="color:#35683d">G</span></span>]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo#top|<sup style="color:#000;font-family:Impact">talk</sup>]] 17:22, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
:I can think of few things as pathetic as being kicked out of Wikipedia, and then writing ''about'' Wikipedia from the outside. What a sad, meaningless existence one must live to have time for that. I hope TDA is at least getting paid for this.
:
:Hmm...
:
:How much do you think Breitbart would pay for a tell-all expose about EEng from one of his top lieutenants? Asking for a friend. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup>[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup></span> 17:42, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
::I'm not gonna lie that I think it would be hilarious to get them to print something Sokal-esque, outing EEng as...I dunno...a paid agent of the Wyoming government or something. Whatever is silly enough to be obvious nonsense but serious enough to get published. [[User:GreenMeansGo|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color:#07CB4B">G</span><span style="color:#449351">M</span><span style="color:#35683d">G</span></span>]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo#top|<sup style="color:#000;font-family:Impact">talk</sup>]] 18:29, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
:You mean all I have to do to get famous is litter talk pages with false and inflammatory stuff? [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 18:34, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
::{{re|Valereee}} Do you mean you've not yet been mentioned in a source? I once apparently reverted a senior advisor to the president. You gotta step up your game. [[User:GreenMeansGo|<span style="font-family:Impact"><span style="color:#07CB4B">G</span><span style="color:#449351">M</span><span style="color:#35683d">G</span></span>]][[User talk:GreenMeansGo#top|<sup style="color:#000;font-family:Impact">talk</sup>]] 00:34, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
What does one do after their [[15 minutes of fame]]? [[User:Objective3000|O3000]] ([[User talk:Objective3000|talk]]) 00:37, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
*{{tq|I can think of few things as pathetic as being kicked out of Wikipedia, and then writing ''about'' Wikipedia from the outside.}}{{snd}}What, you never heard of [[Encyclopedia Dramatica]], [[Wikipedia Review]], [[Wikipediocracy]], [https://wikipediasucks.co]? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:31, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

== Images ==

I am sorry to see that you've been given a hard time offsite regarding your recent editing on a high-profile article. 

However, I do have to agree with other editors above that the images you added to the talkpage discussion there are inappropriate to the serious context of that discussion, to such a degree that I have removed them. As I did once before, and as others did above, I'll suggest that these humorous interpolations be reserved for contexts to which they aren't jarringly unsuited in tone. Regards, [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 06:52, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
:Not my best efforts, certainly. But what is this, cleanup day? If you don't cut it out I'm going to hire Flyer to put together a harassment case against you. Next you'll be removing this image [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=966580924#Big_picture_in_the_centre] too. [https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-history-defending-confederate-heritage-political-risk-analysis/story?id=71199968 "I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?"] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:13, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
::I hadn't seen that one. I'm actually working on an article at the moment, so I'll leave it to others to deal with the crop crap. Regards, [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 07:30, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
:::I think it's more of a crop crack. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 12:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
:Thanks Brad. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 09:22, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

=== [[Wikipedia:Editors who may be confused]] ===

Completely unrelated to the above ... I was planning to move this page, after the MfD closed as Keep, from "Editors who may be confused" to "Editors whose usernames may be confused." I think that's a better title for the page, and likely to avoid, um, confusion, since the reference is to mix-ups of usernames and not people's addled mental states. After having posted the above, I decided it would be too much for me to make that change unilaterally and maybe look like I'm quashing another joke, so I'll just leave the idea here instead. Regards, [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 07:04, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
:I have always considered you a gentleman and a scholar. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:15, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

== [[:User talk:John Maynard Friedman#AN/I § Please revdel edit summary containing offensive, ableist personal attack from User:John Maynard Friedman|User talk:John Maynard Friedman §&nbsp;AN/I § Please revdel edit summary containing offensive, ableist personal attack from User:John Maynard Friedman]] ==

I'm sorry, I don't think it's allowed for me to reply at JMF's talk page. Even [[Special:PermaLink/966748849|PermaLink/966748849]] was ill advised, I do believe...the rev. I'm talking about is [[Special:PermaLink/966741182|PermaLink/966741182]]. As far as deleting the thread, I do respect your advice, really, and under other circumstances I'd take it, but it's been nothing but attacks and misrepresentations from JMF, in my view. Trolls email me {{tq|little man}} ''multiple times a day'' in retaliation for my activism against [[QAnon]]/[[8chan]], which I haven't even done too much of lately, yet the emails keep coming. It's one of my ignored phrases on [[Twitter]], along with {{tq|little boy}}. I want there to be a record he said this, and an admin read it, and decided it contravened [[WP:CRD]]. I don't want it swept under the rug, because if he's willing to say this to me, who knows what other slur he's willing to call another editor who upsets him. This can't be worked out without an apology from him, and even then I'm going to avoid interaction as much as possible. It's really upset me. Wikipedia is something of a safe space for me, free of the personal attacks I suffer everywhere else online, and it's been violated. If that sounds overly [[SJW]] to you, or [[millenial]], or [[leftist]], or whatever, I'm sorry, but I'm not in a good place mentally right now after, well, what is mentioned at the end of [[Fredrick Brennan|my article]], about me leaving the Philippines, my home of six years. I was diagnosed with [[major depression]] probably due to an [[adjustment disorder]] as it happened in February and many days all I manage to do is edit this site, and on days I don't, I do nothing or next to it. This is on top of [[WP:ASPERGERS]], diagnosed since age 15, and [[OCD]], which I'm not on anything for as I don't like any of the options and my obsessions don't bother me. Sorry to bombard you with info you probably don't care about, I just want you to know where I'm coming from. [[User:Psiĥedelisto|Psiĥedelisto]] ([[User talk:Psiĥedelisto|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Psiĥedelisto|contribs]]) <sup>please ''always'' [[Help:Notifications|ping]]!</sup> 00:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
:Wow, I'm really sorry this is all happening. Look, can you just take my advice (i.e. delete your post at ANI) just temporarily? Let me see what I can do because{{snd}}again{{snd}}ANI should be your last resort. If I fail you can always repost at ANI. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

===John Maynard Friedman ANI clsing summary===
Well said. I appreciate the positive efforts you've made toward resolving that incident. You certainly make my job as admin an easier one. So, thank you, EEng. Keep doing good. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 12:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
:Don't get too used to it. My parole officer says that put the final touch on my community service hours so as soon as the ankle bracelet's off I'll be back to my usual appalling self. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
::{{U|El C}}, since I don't want you to regret your kind words, I want to be sure you understand that{{nbsp}}...
::*This [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=966921509&oldid=966841021] was sincerely meant.
::*This [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=967060172&oldid=967059398] was sincerely meant.
::*This [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=967084699] was sincerely meant.
::*OK, this [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=967100878] was not sincerely meant, though it had a message. (The implication that the things he wrote at ANI were somehow P's fault was the last straw.)
::The lesson? I really am the nicest guy in the world, just like you thought, and willing to go to some length to help my fellow editors, but there's a certain kind of IDHT that gets my Irish up. (I must say these partial blocks do save a lot of drama.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:10, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
::Followup: Buried in this rambling post [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=967027501&oldid=967011861] is a point I've made before, which is that I've never understood why we go to the trouble of redacting PAs and legal threats and so on. I think it's better to just collapse  or <del>strike</del> them; otherwise others are left to guess what's in them, and newbies can't learn from them. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
:::I didn't revdelete Vanisaac's comment. It remains in the permanent revisions for all to see. Sorry to see that Bison-X continues to be unhelpful by personally attacking you. I have warned them against continuing to do so. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 16:07, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
::::Yeah, but even without revdel someone has to dig a bit to find what was said, so instead they imagine things; not a big deal but, as I said, I've always thought keeping things out in the sunshine is best. As for me, well, as someone once said [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=911611833], {{tq|EEng who, and I'm fairly confident that he would agree with me on this, seems pretty much flameproof, and who is quite capable of breathing hilarious-but-scorching flame himself when the need arises}}. [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=911611833]. So while I appreciate the sentiment there are others who need the defense more, and anyway I don't think any advice you give BX is going to sink in. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:10, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::My advise remains: to have some decorum to context. I try to view things from the viewpoint of the victim when there's victimization. Anyway, no further admin intervention is needed at this time, so I don't feel obliged to keep going on about this with them. Otherwise, they are free to bring to review anything they see fit at any time. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 17:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::::I actually don't know what "decorum to context" means (though it has a nice ring to it). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::::A sense of decorum that's governed by the context of the incident in question. It's not a riddle! [[User:El_C|El_C]] 21:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::I see, sort of like "add salt to taste". [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::{{u|EEng}}, just so you know, Ivanvector seems to have forgotten to notify you as per [[WP:BLOCK]] that you are blocked from editing a user's talk page. I am sure it was just an oversight. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 04:51, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::Actually, the purpose of such a surgical block is to reduce drama, and imposing such a block silently achieves that very nicely, I think. The blocked editor finds out about the block in due course if need be, and if they object they can contact the blocking admin directly{{snd}}unlike with a normal block, which restricts the editor to their own talk page. (If policy doesn't actually allow such silent blocks it should, I think.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::I'm glad you agree that the block reduced drama but in retrospect I handled notification badly for this. For what it's worth and I'm sure you know already, I blocked you because you were interrupting a discussion which otherwise looked to be quickly heading for resolution among the offended parties, and while I'm sure you meant to help, their reactions to your comments should have shown you were not; I blocked when you started commenting what looked to me like [[parting shot]]s. My apologies for not saying so then; I should also have said so in the discussion: clearly everyone else wasn't aware because they kept asking you to leave when you couldn't reply. Honestly I had not interpreted that the policy ''requires'' a notification, I spend most of my blocks on sockpuppets who [[WP:DENY|as a rule]] I ''don't'' notify. Thanks to you both for the reminder. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] (<sup>[[User talk:Ivanvector|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ivanvector|Edits]]</sub>) 10:34, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::::[[WP:PB|Partial blocks]] are still new. We are in uncharted realms. Norms of decorum (that was for you, EEng) are, at this time, poorly-codified. What may seem intuitive may clash with the longstanding block policy. Still, editors in good standing deserve a notification with ''any'' sanction whatsoever, I think. Not that this is a big deal. It isn't. For my part, I welcome the input and intervention of other admins to this incident. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 15:17, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

== Skip the drama ==

Hey, I saw [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:El_C&diff=967258906&oldid=967226079 your comment]. I like the approach of directly being able to communicate with admins. Sometimes, I feel that someone is breaking a policy but I'm not sure and putting something on WP:ANI is definitely very accusatory (as if you know for sure they're bad). What kinda things did you mean by "skip the drama"? I'm curious to know your thoughts! '''[[User:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>[[User talk:Vice regent|'''<font color="Black">talk</font>''']]</sub> 18:46, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
:I mean any time you think you can get done what needs doing by contacting an individual admin, you should try that. ANI is perhaps the most-watched page on the project, and every thread opened siphons off a huge amount of editor energy just from people reading it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:10, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::The last time [[Wikipedia:Database reports/Most-watched pages|this report]] was run (in 2017!) ANI was #10. I have some doubts about these results. [[User:Ivanvector|Ivanvector]] (<sup>[[User talk:Ivanvector|Talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ivanvector|Edits]]</sub>) 20:25, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
:::Well there's clearly ''something'' very weird going on, with [[Lea Luboshutz]], Russian violinist, being the #5 most-watched page, barely edged out by [[Draft:Lea Luboshutz]]. And the main page, which is #1, actually never changes, being nothing but transclusions of other pages which host the actual content. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
::::If you care, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&dir=prev&offset=20080711053858&limit=1&type=move&user=&page=Wikipedia%3ASandbox&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B0%5D=newusers the explanation is fairly uninteresting]. Someone who'd been here long enough to know better moved [[WP:Sandbox]] to [[Draft:Lea Luboshutz]], taking all its watchers with it. Those people who are genuinely watching it will have unwatched Luboshutz as soon as the edits started showing up on their watchlist, but 99% of the Sandbox's watchers are zombie accounts who checked "add all pages I edit to my watchlist" when they set up their original preferences and subsequently made a test edit to the sandbox, and never edited again so it remains on their watchlist. (At the time of writing, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&action=info the sandbox has 19,069 'watchers', only 733 of whom are actually active].) 
::::The reason [[Main Page]] has so many watchers is simple; while the MP itself never changes, [[Talk:Main Page]] is one of the most active talkpages on the project and because of the way Mediawiki handles watchlisting, the two come as a package deal.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 17:38, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::Now you've gone and taken all the mystery out of it! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:57, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

== White House Farm murders ==

Noted you have recently devoted time and focus to the Jeremy Bamber articles, EEng. I have several printed sources, and can delve. If you need any sections expanding or facts citing, let me know. Regards, --[[User:Kieronoldham|Kieronoldham]] ([[User talk:Kieronoldham|talk]]) 02:43, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
:Hey there! Of course I wouldn't ''dream'' of doing anything substantive on White House without you, ''but first'' ... remember [[Moors Murders]]? There are (literally) 20 books on my shelf that have been waiting a year for me to get back to that. It'll be a big job, and you're gonna need to contribute too! I thought the pandemic would be a perfect opportunity to get deep into that, but turns out there's a lot of things needing doing during a pandemic if you really look for them. But I'm committed to following through on Moors.{{pb}}So for now, on White House I'm just trying to clear out the underbrush. It's impossible to read, much less comprehend, because of the haphazard organization, the jumping around in time, and the tone/overdetail problems. But, again, getting into real substance will have to wait until Moors is put to bed. (Actually, two things have already come up you might be able to address: (1) there's a confused paragraph on the parents' estates -- see the {explain} templates; (2) search the word ''grandmother'' -- which grandmother disowned him?) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:41, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
::Well *coughs* (non-COVID-19) the firm I work for is considered an essential public service, {{U|EEng}}, so I had and have to work through the pandemic (not that I get public applause). I actually don't have this article on my watchlist, but may add it back. Just read sections and noted you were devoting focus. As for the Moors Murders article, it seems to have stagnated, I'll delve into that again going forward. Regards,--[[User:Kieronoldham|Kieronoldham]] ([[User talk:Kieronoldham|talk]]) 22:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
:::Well, I've read and annotated two or three of the main works on the Moors case, but there are several more to go before I can even begin to take stock. Somewhere we (you and me and {{U|Levivich}} and several others) did talk about a general plan for things that needed to be done; the one I remember in particular is the article completely fails to address social impact of the case. All in good time. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:04, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
::::June Bamber was the daughter of Leslie and Mabel Speakman. They had two daughters, but no son. Pamela married Robert Boutflour in '47; June Nevill Bamber in 1949. Therefore, as both married farmers themselves, the family wealth and property was to be bequeathed (I believe) ''between'' their daughters' families. The will was changed with David(?) Boutflour's encouragement in September of '85, with Jeremy Bamber removed as a beneficiary. [https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/killer-bamber-sues-family-again-1-63405 This link] may be of interest. --[[User:Kieronoldham|Kieronoldham]] ([[User talk:Kieronoldham|talk]]) 23:17, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::Good work. As you can see the same kind of ownership impulses are bubbling to the surface as those which caused so much trouble on Moors, so batten down the hatches. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:01, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::: Think I receive the nautical direction. Aft it is. On top, though, I have to add that greater emphasis needs to be added to the "Jeremy innocent" advocates' claims.--[[User:Kieronoldham|Kieronoldham]] ([[User talk:Kieronoldham|talk]]) 02:19, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::::You may very well be right about emphasis problem; the problem is that, as it stands, it's impossible to absorb what the article currently contains -- much less evaluate it for balance -- because of its constant jumping around.{{pb}}From what you say you seem to be ready to give special attention to the hatches aft, which is good because we don't want any aft holes getting in the way of whipping this article into something like readable shape. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:30, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Déjà vu. Whatever happened to [[Moors murders]], I wonder... [[User:El_C|El_C]] 02:32, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::EEng, I devote focus on one article at a time, typically, as I am sure you know. I'm more than wiling to devote focus upon areas of concern for yous. I will refocus on the Moors Murders article too in short time. {{U|El_C}} a collective focus is what we all wish for. Deja vu means something different to me... --[[User:Kieronoldham|Kieronoldham]] ([[User talk:Kieronoldham|talk]]) 02:50, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::El C, I'm not sure what you're asking or saying exactly, but it does seem that murder brings out the worst in our fellow editors. See also [https://www.cbs8.com/article/entertainment/late-show/bob-woodward-insiders-call-the-white-house-crazytown/509-a8d6978c-a5c8-4918-a177-b6a853b00164 Insiders Call The White House 'Crazytown ...] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:12, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::Good, I remain a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a vest. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 03:14, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::"Whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."--[[User:Kieronoldham|Kieronoldham]] ([[User talk:Kieronoldham|talk]]) 03:24, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
::::<small>(<span style="color:#555;">responding to [[Wikipedia:Notifications|ping]]</span>)</small> England has a house they call the "White House"? They're such copycats. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup>[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup></span> 06:39, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

== Joke ==

I assume [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=968133336&oldid=968133191 "Just a reminder that Arbcom has authorized escalating blocks for editors employing coy circumlocutions for ''boomerang''] is a joke, right? I don't keep up with ArbCom. - [[User talk:Alexis Jazz|Alexis Jazz]] 12:57, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
:No joke. I was completely serious. Really. Absolutely. No kidding. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:44, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
::<small>Should of used the {{T|FBDB}} template... [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 18:04, 17 July 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::<small>That's "should HAVE used the {{T|FBDB}} template", you illiterate.{{fbdb}} [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:56, 18 July 2020 (UTC) <small>And stop calling me illiterate. My mom and dad have been married for 75 years!</small></small>
::::<small>I am going to have to play the [[English as a second or foreign language|ESL]] card on that one! [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 23:15, 18 July 2020 (UTC)</small>
::::<small>Dirty foreigner.{{fbdb}} [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)</small>
:Reviewing that discussion, I don't think it's proper that Guy should be blocking the OP of a thread about Guy.-- [[User:Pawnkingthree|P-K3]] ([[User talk:Pawnkingthree|talk]]) 18:51, 17 July 2020 (UTC){{confused?}}
::Some Guys are not to be messed with. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup>[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup></span> 19:17, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
:I figured it might be a heavily overused joke that everyone got really sick of or something. While I figured it had to be a joke, I wasn't 100% sure.. So you got me. {{smiley}} Of course I may get you back some day. {{smiley|;)}} - [[User talk:Alexis Jazz|Alexis Jazz]] 04:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
::You're in the big leagues now, kid, so prepare yourself. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:22, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
::Run. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 00:03, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

== Once and for all ==

Let's settle this once and for all. Which is better?
#"Address the edit, not the editor"
#"Comment on the content, not the contributor" <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&thinsp;<sup>[''[[Special:Contributions/Levivich|dubious]] – [[User talk:Levivich|discuss]]'']</sup></span> 18:47, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
*Be pedantic, not a pedant. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 18:50, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
*:Wow, Valereee, Levivich may have met his match. I'll just note that all of the above are good starts for {{t|Burma-shave}}s. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:44, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

== {{rainbow|fgcolor=#FFFFFF|gradient=y|bg=y|theme=subdued30%|I come bearing another gift~（｀・ω・´）}} ==

The first two gifts ({{format linkr|#I think these new userboxes I made fit your aesthetic}}; {{format linkr|#%7B%7B!tqi%7D%7D_/_%7B%7B!tqqi%7D%7D}}) fell a bit flat. ({{tqqi|I despise all things French.}}; {{tqqi|I'm not quite getting the use case. [...] I remain mystified.}})

However, I am nothing if not persistent. I just see you as especially difficult to amuse, a fun side quest on Wikipedia. "Amuse EEng with a template".

So, let's see if I've managed it this time. {{rainbow|bg=black|gradient=y|Third time has got to be the charm!}}

See <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:rainbow|{{rainbow|theme=subdued10%|rainbow}}]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki>. Despite its name, {{rainbow|colors=#FF0000,#0000FF|you can actually choose any colors}}.

It's got some bugs, but haven't we all? (Don't answer that.) [[User:Psiĥedelisto|Psiĥedelisto]] ([[User talk:Psiĥedelisto|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Psiĥedelisto|contribs]]) <sup>please ''always'' [[Help:Notifications|ping]]!</sup> 21:00, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
:Added to the toolbox [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:EEng&diff=968871060&oldid=967423484]. But really, my man, no need to shower me with such gifts. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:13, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
:: {{rainbow|fgcolor=#FFFFFF|gradient=y|bg=y|theme=subdued30%|I love this so much}} --[[User:Mdaniels5757|Mdaniels5757]] ([[User talk:Mdaniels5757|talk]]) 01:18, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

== not this again picture ==

Do you know the name of the image that expresses this sentiment so poignantly? [[WP:ANI|I could use it.]] --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 18:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, DFO, what are you talking about? Wait, you mean this? [[File:Oh_no,_not_this_shit_again.jpg|200px]] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:05, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

== Edit description  ==

Thank you for the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lauren_Boebert&diff=prev&oldid=968792028 laugh], one of the best helpful yet funny edits. [[User:Philotimo|Philotimo]] ([[User talk:Philotimo|talk]]) 17:58, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

== Thank you ==

I wanted to thank you for bringing a civil and engaging comment in the article's talk page. At least you read something about Pedro II, instead of basing yourself in guesswork or a simple dislike about something in the text. That's refreshing. I might have a couple of issues with your opinion, but they have a foundation. --[[User:Lecen|Lecen]] ([[User talk:Lecen|talk]]) 00:35, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

== You've got mail ==

{{You've got mail|dashlesssig=[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 07:57, 25 July 2020 (UTC)}}
[[File:Mars_symbol.svg|thumb|upright=.5|Not to be confused with "You've got male" [[User:CaptainEek|<span style="color:#6a1f7f">'''CaptainEek'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:CaptainEek|<span style="font-size:82%"><span style="color:#a479e5">''Edits Ho Cap'n!''</span></span>]]</sup>[[Special:Contributions/CaptainEek|⚓]]]]
===[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] of <redacted>===
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]

The page <redacted> has been speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This was done for the following reason:

<blockquote>per user request</blockquote>

Under the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|criteria for speedy deletion]], pages that meet certain criteria may be deleted at any time. 

Please do not recreate the material without addressing these concerns, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If you think this page should not have been deleted for this reason, or you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the {{Querylink|Special:Log|qs=type=delete&page=Wikipedia%3ATarage%27s+Law|deleting administrator}}, or if you have already done so, you can place a request [[WP:RFUD|here]]. <!-- Template:Db-reason-deleted --> [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 15:33, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
:Thanks, Bz. Before anyone panics, this was per a user's request that the page be renamed; it lives on as [[WP:Iron Law of Infobox Ubiquity]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:36, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
::And, do you know.... she's got a [[Barbra_Streisand|lovely box]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:42, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
[[File:Lilith_(Carl_Poellath).jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|Welcome to the garden. I'm your host, EEng. Here, have a piece of fruit. ]]
::Your user talk page is a garden of delights. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 15:32, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

== Grade inflation at harvard ==

Asking about your recent edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Harvard_University&type=revision&diff=970310310&oldid=970309616 here]. What makes this a "shock statistic", other than that some may be shocked to learn that it is a statistic? How would you like it to be contextualized? [[User:Gumshoe2|Gumshoe2]] ([[User talk:Gumshoe2|talk]]) 16:42, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
::<small>It's a statistic which was obtained by shocking scientists until they gave the answer we wanted. [[User:GeneralNotability|GeneralNotability]] ([[User talk:GeneralNotability|talk]]) 16:45, 30 July 2020 (UTC)</small>
:For starters (in no particular order): [http://harry-lewis.blogspot.com/2013/12/thoughts-on-grading-asymptote.html] [http://harry-lewis.blogspot.com/2013/12/what-do-you-do-when-students-get-better.html] [https://slate.com/business/2013/12/harvard-grade-inflation-the-real-problem-is-admissions.html] [https://lewis.seas.harvard.edu/pages/2003-october-grades]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:59, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
::It seems like the context you want was already provided by the previous sentence on the page. The sentence I added to the page was simply-stated and factual information. Of course various people may disagree about whether it is a positive or a negative fact. So why shouldn't it be included? [[User:Gumshoe2|Gumshoe2]] ([[User talk:Gumshoe2|talk]]) 19:09, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
:::So you think the history of a 400-year-old institution should include this year's percentage of A's? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:58, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
::::I suggest we continue this at the harvard talk page [[User:Gumshoe2|Gumshoe2]] ([[User talk:Gumshoe2|talk]]) 23:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

== Notice of ANI that mentions you in passing ==

Greetings, FYI I filed a request at [[WP:ANI]] titled [[Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#CIR-based_community-imposed_site_ban_re%3A_RTG|"CIR-based community-imposed site ban re: RTG"]]. In providing  a basis for my request I mentioned you and your prior dealings with this editor.  Your input at ANI is optional, i.e., invited but not specifically requested.  Thanks for reading. [[User:NewsAndEventsGuy|NewsAndEventsGuy]] ([[User talk:NewsAndEventsGuy|talk]]) 12:56, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
::Bah. [[Little Joe 2|Floating space monkeys]] are [[Pigs in Space|people too]], you know!! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:13, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
:Thanks. It's been a while since anyone made a pass at me. Incidentally, you must have completely exhausted yourself preparing that report; just to lighten your load next time, it's not necessary to notify editors who are merely tangentially mentioned in a report. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
::Too true. These days there's no way you're gonna get away with throwing monkeys at a wall and [[Animal testing on non-human primates|seeing what sticks]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:23, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
::@Eeng, I thought the expectation was to ''always'' alert other eds when you mention them, regardless of venue?  It's how I would like to be treated, so.... but thanks, you're right, I find documenting long running low intensity problems of that sort to be hard, since the community seems to ignore them if you don't paint the whole picture. And sometimes even if you do...  [[User:NewsAndEventsGuy|NewsAndEventsGuy]] ([[User talk:NewsAndEventsGuy|talk]]) 14:26, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
:::Just to be clear, it's not a problem, just trying to (as I said) lighten your load next time you write a 100K ANI report. (I was amused that you quoted my "Uh oh". That was a ''very'' complete report.) The rule (as stated in the box at the top of the ANI page) is to notify anyone you are "reporting", which presumably means the person(s) at whom you are trying to direct the community's wrath. Notifying others (who will probably be pinged, depending on the technique by which you mention them, and on their preference settings) is probably optional, and in fact I could see an argument that pinging all the person the reportee (if that's a word) has tangled with might be seen as canvassing. In practice, though, I've never seen anything like any of these questions be a real issue. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:59, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
::::so true and too funny! {{tq|"...''very'' complete report..."}} thanks for the laugh [[User:NewsAndEventsGuy|NewsAndEventsGuy]] ([[User talk:NewsAndEventsGuy|talk]]) 19:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

== 80 posts ? ==

EEng..I don`t understand what you meant by  " says the IP who has made 80 post " I may have quoted you incorrectly word for word but it`s essentially what you said..I just don`t get..what is that supposed to mean ?  Why did you say it ?  Inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks [[Special:Contributions/2600:1702:2340:9470:C66:8450:D2FC:FDCF|2600:1702:2340:9470:C66:8450:D2FC:FDCF]] ([[User talk:2600:1702:2340:9470:C66:8450:D2FC:FDCF|talk]]) 20:22, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
:My comment here [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=970719628] was intended to highlight the fact that you were dispensing advice along the lines of "Behavior X won't get you very far on Wikipedia" to an editor with literally 500 times the editing experience you appear to have. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:37, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
::Why didn`t you just say that instead directing a borderline personal attack at me ? this guy who is constantly referring to himself as "we" isn`t exactly endearing himself to others..I was just trying to point that out [[Special:Contributions/2600:1702:2340:9470:C66:8450:D2FC:FDCF|2600:1702:2340:9470:C66:8450:D2FC:FDCF]] ([[User talk:2600:1702:2340:9470:C66:8450:D2FC:FDCF|talk]]) 23:59, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
:::"We" (meaning Wikipedia{{snd}}""We do this", "We don't do that") is appropriate when explaining the project's fundamental rules and practices on which there's no debate whatsoever. When there's a living accused person, or likely to be one later, "we" don't label a death murder without an official determination on that point. As [[Stephen Leacock]] put it, "Newspapermen learn to call a murderer an alleged murderer and the King of England the alleged King of England to avoid libel suits." [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:20, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
::::You could have just said that..actually if someone had said that from the beginning I`d have never said a word..I don`t appreciate the condescending attitude toward me regarding my 80 edits..the "we" thing was just plain obnoxious the way it was used..do not include me in your group because it suits your purpose..
::::Can you at least explain the red links to me ?  Some lead to page does not exist other to editors with 100`s if not 1000`s of edits..it`s confusing..
::::The alleged king of England ? thanks  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2600:1702:2340:9470:4E4:5FFD:55DC:40F2|2600:1702:2340:9470:4E4:5FFD:55DC:40F2]] ([[User talk:2600:1702:2340:9470:4E4:5FFD:55DC:40F2#top|talk]]) 18:47, 4 August 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::::I'm sorry, but I don't know what red links you're talking about. My very strong suggestion to you, if you want to contribute to the project, is that you create an account, which will give you credibility. If you have further questions about how Wikipedia works or how to edit, the [[WP:TEAHOUSE|Teahouse]] is a great place to ask. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:14, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
:::::A redlinked user name just means the editor hasn't created their user page yet. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 20:23, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
:::::80 edits? I'm surprised you're not already [[Octacontagon|gon]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:28, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

== Today in translation humor ==

I was just taking a stroll by fawiki (to remove some cross-wiki spam), when I tripped their abuse filter. Apparently Google translate thinks that their phrase for "abuse filter" is more properly translated as "sabotage factory" (see, for example, [[:w:fa:%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D9%BE%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%DB%8C%D9%87_%D9%88%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B4]]. I vote we call the edit filter the sabotage factory from now on. [[User:GeneralNotability|GeneralNotability]] ([[User talk:GeneralNotability|talk]]) 17:41, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Also fawiki has a user group called "Eliminators" (admin-light, I think). Maybe I should just move to fawiki... [[User:GeneralNotability|GeneralNotability]] ([[User talk:GeneralNotability|talk]]) 17:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
::<small>Is there a f-f-s-wiki? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:57, 6 August 2020 (UTC) </small>
:Sounds like something from a novel about the dystopian future. There'd "Lawgivers", "Eliminators", a "Sabotage Factory" (for some reason) and so on.{{pb}}Actually, I figured out the factory. My translator's giving ''Sabotage refinery'' where I think you're getting ''Sabotage factory''. So I think it goes  ''[[mw:Extension:AbuseFilter]]'' -> ''refinement:sabotage'' -> ''sabotage refinery'' -> ''sabotage factory''. No idea where eliminators came from, but whatever they are we should have them here for sure.
:I see also that ''[[regular expression]]s'' comes out (after a round trip into Farsi) ''regular phrases'', and this gives me an excuse to tell a story. When my advisor{{snd}}who for 50 years almost single-handedly created and nurtured the computer science program at <name of breathtakingly prestigious institution of higher learning redacted>{{snd}}finally announced that he would retire someday (though he didn't say when exactly) there was a big celebration. I mean, not a celebration because people were happy he was retiring, but a celebration of CS at <prestigious institution> in honor of him.{{pb}}Somehow I got the responsibility of creating a <my{{nbsp}}advisor>-themed crossword puzzle for the program booklet{{snd}}you know, something fun. I really got into it, and even if I do say so myself it was terrific. Much of it was lofty and inspirational. For example, one answer was the name of his wife, who happened to be the director of undergraduate admissions; the clue was [https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/28/mind-fire/ "She supplies the fires to be lit"]. But other items were, shall we say, more earthy; for the answer "RE" (which in computer geekery means "regular expression") the clue was "Visage of those who get enough roughage". Whether my advisor ever worked this puzzle I do not know. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:47, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Editors who may be confused]] ==

I'm truly honored! Thank you, EEng! --[[User:Bsherr|Bsherr]] ([[User talk:Bsherr|talk]]) 20:39, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
: It is I who am honored to work with so many easily confused editors. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:55, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

== ANI Notice ==

[[File:Information icon4.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.&nbsp;The thread is [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Personal attack by EEng|Personal attack by EEng]]. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice--> [[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 14:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
:As usual, I missed the dramah because I was busy working on articles (specifically rescuing a draft so it wouldn't be nuked) .... typical [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 10:23, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
::{{tpw}} {{yo|Ritchie333}}  Sucha set of priorities. What is Wikipedia coming to? You'd think we were here to write an encyclopedia. 😜 --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 10:28, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
::{{tpw}}{{fbdb}} Personally I think the idea about WMF handing out meds has [[Restless legs syndrome|definitely got legs]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 11:08, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
* [[Special:Diff/972516816|This]] was terrible editing advice, though. Where does E think haiku closes and burma-shaves come from? [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 16:12, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*: A warped imagination, of course. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 17:35, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*:: Exactly! They come from [https://www.wikileaf.com/strain/turbo-mind-warp/ Turbo Mind Warp] and similar varieties. [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 17:43, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*:::So rude! That EEng's a [[Dead Skunk|real skunk]], bro. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:47, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*::::Calling EEng a "real skunk" is not a personal attack. But calling him a "fake skunk" would be. And if you smoke too much, you might call him a "skank funk". And think that it's funny. Anyway, EEng, there's deodorant for that, bro. And better to stick with edibles. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:25, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*:::::Ah, Trypy. Your [[DrugScience|science-based]] explanations are always [[Stoned Immaculate: The Music of The Doors|immaculate]]! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:40, 12 August 2020 (UTC) <small>....and how your fans really [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIUdyBG_DT0 see you]... </small>
*::::::Trippy, indeed. The guy in that video was my PhD thesis advisor. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:48, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*The whole civil issue is one that needs to be TNT'ed and rebuilt because it is the policy that is wholly dependent on the whims of the corrupt administration. While I agree with the outcome of the ANI here, that saying "your edit is X" is not the same thing as saying "you are X." I was blocked for saying, "Your edit is X" because an admin said, "if you say an edit is X, that means the person is X" and I was blocked for a personal attack.[[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 21:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*::Phew! What a relief that you never moved on to [[Ex's & Oh's|Os]]! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uLI6BnVh6w] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:50, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
::::{{reply|Martinevans123}} "You know that's how the story goes" --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 23:02, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*:Well AFAICS you were blocked once for {{tq|Jimbo should have blocked you for longer. You are not an asset to this project}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=708613226] and once for {{tq|So in other words you're not interested in the truth, you're just interested in being anti-Israel}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=690173133]. Those are personal attacks -- not the worst by far, but still personal attacks. And context matters. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:59, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*::''And context matters.'' Amen. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:03, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*:::I wasn't referring to that one. I was referring to a block by El_C. And, I am also TBANNED right now for calling out an edit, not an editor, yet the discussion didn't make that distinction. And with El_C, the distinction wasn't made at all, because if I say, "your post is idiotic" then that means you're an idiot for posting an idiotic post. Which I think is incorrect, because even smart people can post an idiotic post once in a while. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 23:30, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
*::::As mentioned earlier, context matters. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:14, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

== Special K ==
Thanks for setting up the redirect for the Mathematicks professorship entry. [[User:Wen D House|Robma]] ([[User talk:Wen D House|talk]]) 10:46, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
:My pleasure. Perhaps you will enjoy [[Andrew Gleason]], which my friend {{noping|David Eppstein}} and I whipped into shape some years ago. He was a wonderful person and after all these years I still miss him. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:06, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

== 3RR ==
[[File:DuffeesLaxativeTabletsSign.jpg|thumb|Please don't template the regulars. --Tryptofish]]
[[File:Templars on Stake.jpg|thumb|And don't regulate the [[Knights Templar|templars]] either. --Tryptofish]]
[[File:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|left|alt=Stop icon]] Your recent editing history at [[:Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines]] shows that you are currently engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]]; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|talk page]] to work toward making a version that represents [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See [[Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle|the bold, revert, discuss cycle]] for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant [[Wikipedia:Noticeboards|noticeboard]] or seek [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]].  In some cases, you may wish to request temporary [[Wikipedia:Protection policy|page protection]]. 

'''Being involved in an edit war can result in you being [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]'''&mdash;especially if you violate the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which states that an editor must not perform more than three [[Help:Reverting|reverts]] on a single page within a 24-hour period.  Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert.  Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;'''even if you do not violate the three-revert rule'''&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.<!-- Template:uw-3rr --> --[[User:Francis Schonken|Francis Schonken]] ([[User talk:Francis Schonken|talk]]) 13:07, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
:{{yo|Francis Schonken}} [[WP:DTR|Please don't template the regulars]], it's rude. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 14:33, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
::Edit-warring on a guideline is far ruder, and far more destabilising on top. EEng should know better than to try forcing a guideline rewrite by edit-warring. --[[User:Francis Schonken|Francis Schonken]] ([[User talk:Francis Schonken|talk]]) 14:37, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
:::{{yo|Francis Schonken}} Whatever sins EEng may have committed, does not justify you being rude to him. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 15:16, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
::{{ping|Paul August}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Francis_Schonken&curid=7235844&diff=974004139&oldid=974003983 this] is of an incredible rudeness, after I already replied to you. Stay off my talk page, thanks. --[[User:Francis Schonken|Francis Schonken]] ([[User talk:Francis Schonken|talk]]) 14:42, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
::::{{yo|Francis Schonken}} I left that message on your talk page, because I hadn't notice that you had ''also'' left the same message [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Flyer22_Frozen&diff=prev&oldid=973937774 here] on {{u|Flyer22  Frozen}}'s talkpage as well. I thought that also warranted pointing out. I'm sorry you thought my messages to you were rude, that was not my intent. I think it's important, when we see editors not treating each other as well as we might to point that out. (EEng can vouch for that.) And I don't think doing so is rude. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 15:04, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
::::::<small>Oh and for the record, I hadn't seen your message to me above when I left my message on your talk page. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 15:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::There are two magic words one should please try to use. They are "please" and "thank you". Thank you. <small> runs to avoid being struck by flying objects</small> --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 14:55, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

:::: [[User talk:Gerda Arendt/Archive 2020#3RR|We sit in the same boat]]. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 15:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

:::::I see a certain irony in using a ''template'' to ask a Knight Templater to not template the regulars, however, I seem to be missing the rudeness. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 16:17, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
::::::Uh ... whose rudeness are you missing? Frances'? Mine? EEng's? [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 16:26, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
::::: [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|More irony.]] --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 16:21, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
*{{U|Francis Schonken}}: I personally don't mind getting templated, because it tells me right off who I'm dealing with. None of us needs instruction or reminders about appropriate behavior, certainly not from you. But you need some. When someone puts a lot of work into something via localized, bite-sized changes, it's ''incredibly'' rude and dismissive to simply revert it all at once with meaningless edit summary like
::{{tq|too many changes that seem counterproductive on first sight, were never discussed, or are far from getting talk page consensus, or any combination of these rationales}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=973938041]].
:As I responded at the time [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=next&oldid=973940030]:
::{{tq|"too many" is not a reason to mass-revert multiple changes, nor is that they "seem" counterproductive "at first sight", or "were not discussed". They can't ALL be unhelpful. Feel free to give them a second look (i.e. actually look at them) and revert or build on individual changes selectively, with actual reasons. But mass reversion of multiple others' work because you don't want to take the time to review is not OK/}}
:But of course, instead of doing any actual work, you came here to leave your idiot template. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:12, 20 August 2020 (UTC)<br/>
::We need something like a swear jar for every time someone skirts NPA by calling an edit "idiot:. <small> point of order, needs an "ic" at the end. not agreeing with the description. just a once upon a time English major</small> --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 20:27, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
::: <small>(Slightly o/t, and asking EEng's indulgence): {{u|Deepfriedokra}}, nah, and I'm sure you're not a [[descriptivist]], and you have to admit, "idiot template" is much pithier, has better meter, and fits the tone better here, so I'd argue it is "correct". OTOH, if you want to propose an "irony jar" (as you previously alluded), you can sign me right up. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:51, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
::::[[Indulgence]]? You'll be needing a priest for that. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 20:55, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
</small>
:: {{ec}} {{u|Francis Schonken}}, leaving that template here was rude. Calling {{u|Paul August}} "rude" for appropriately and respectfully requesting you not template the regulars was risible.  Hijacking EEng's talk page to air your misplaced grievances about rudeness is rude. [[Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?|Henry II's quotation]] comes to mind. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:44, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

:::{{yo|Mathglot}} Taken in context, that's out of contect. One might reply [[Murder in the Cathedral|"Peace on Earth to men of good will]]. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 20:49, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
:::: {{u|Deepfriedokra}}, Don't understand. [[WP:THREAD|Indented reply target]] misunderstanding, perhaps? [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 20:53, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
:::: {{ec}} I moved the end brackets now; is that what you meant? (And now I feel we're on the verge of hijacking EEng's TP; withdrawing...  [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 21:00, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}Indent as thou willst shalt be the whole of the law. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 20:57, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
*While it's fun indeed, I'd actually appreciate it if people would focus more on F.S.'s mass reversion without giving a cognizable reason (linked in my rant above) than on the templating. (Though both are symptoms of valuing form over substance, of course.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
**I'd love to see someone create [[:Template:Idiot]]. Maybe with Trump's photo on it. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
:::Somebody did, on 7 August 2005. Its content was, verbatim, "{{xt|The last person who edited this page ''(not including me!)'' is a BIG FAT IDIOT!}}". It was deleted four minutes later. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 14:29, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
::::Before my time here – I shoulda' checked the page history. Well, at least there is [[:Template:Idiot Box]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

== ANI notification ==

[[File:Information icon4.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice-->--[[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] ([[User talk:Timrollpickering|talk]]) 23:25, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
:You're welcome! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:13, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

::[[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#The_indigestible_EEng_back_by_popular_demand|back by popular demand, or, splenic dyspepsia]] --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 16:21, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

:::As a fellow [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&curid=5137507&diff=974252529&oldid=974251406 relic] it is glorious to be a notable part of the past as well as a beacon to the future. Cheers and enjoy your weekend. [[User:MarnetteD|MarnetteD]]&#124;[[User talk:MarnetteD|Talk]] 23:36, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

== Help? ==
[[File:StJohnCarving.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85|This is somewhat unclear]]
[[File:Turn to Clear Vision (2082157079).jpg|thumb|Will this help? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 02:23, 24 August 2020 (UTC)]]
Hi EEng, I came across this carving while visiting a church in Derbyshire recently. Wondered if you could help me to work out what's going on in it, I can't quite make it out. Cheers [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 11:56, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
:Blowed if I know.... [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 14:27, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
::Well, ''that'' sucks! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
:::{{u|Tryptofish}}, yes, it's frustrating isn't it? I just can't get my head around it. They say two heads are better than one - if only someone would be willing to donate theirs to help solve this conundrum, it might give me some relief. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 20:26, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
::::I agree. That sort of thing can be very hard to swallow. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:29, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
*Why don't one of you post that image over at [[meta:Talk:Universal_Code_of_Conduct#The_problem_of_the_"untouchable"_'jester']] to show those killjoys what clean, harmless fun we have here at enwp? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:47, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
*:Because he jest shouldn't be touching him that way. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:02, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
: [https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1215255 any help]? --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 21:31, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
::{{u|Gerda Arendt}}, I'm afraid not - you've got the right church, but the carvings aren't mentioned in the listing. I've checked Pevsner, but he doesn't shed any light either. If I go there again, I might see whether I can gather any oral accounts to satisfy my curiosity, but of course that would be OR for our purposes. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 00:27, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
::::Not many can handle hardwood with such mastery; clearly, a devotional work. I can't quite make out what's happening on the backside though. [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 00:47, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
::::: [http://www.misericords.co.uk/tideswell_oc.html this] has a pic, perhaps a trace? [[User:Ceoil|Ceoil]] perhaps? [[User:Peter I. Vardy|Peter]]? --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 07:34, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
:::I realize you posted here looking for help but I'd say it's at the church itself that you'll find the succor you need. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:03, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
::::Fair enough, and thanks anyway. In an entirely unrelated note, I was thinking about creating a list of all of [[Zeus]]'s mortal lovers. I started out with high spirits, but I'm afraid that my enthusiasm rather fell at [[Io (mythology)|io]]. Such is the nature of editing here I suppose. Cheers [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 01:17, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
:::::Jimbo has mortal lovers? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:11, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
::::::Looks to me like it's a bishop blessing someone, possibly a Confirmation.  Not sure about the person behind, but bishops usually have a companion of some sort. --[[User:Peter I. Vardy|Peter I. Vardy]] ([[User talk:Peter I. Vardy|talk]]) 08:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Ah yes, I'm sure you're right, thanks. Some nice pics there {{u|Gerda Arendt}}, you have a knack for finding interesting stuff. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 10:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, a companion [[Longtime Companion|of some sort]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
*In the words of the deathless [[Tom Lehrer]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jARdWfJulo#t=2m13s]:
::When correctly viewed<br/>Everything is lewd.<br/>I could tell you things about Peter Pan<br/>And the Wizard of Oz&mdash;<br/>''There's'' a dirty old man!
:[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
::Crikey - when you said deathless, I thought you meant 'will be remembered forever'. I hadn't realised he was still alive, that's cheering. His Irish ballad was was always my favourite, my dad used to sing it to us in the car, thirty plus years ago now... [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 14:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
:::My friend [[Andrew Gleason]] (himself gone now{{snd}}and we will not see his like again, I'm afraid) told me many stories about him. Apparently he's as fun in person as you might imagine. See [https://mail.harvardmagazine.com/2011/07/cambridge-02138] [https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1954/2/13/freshman-smoker-will-have-beer-smokes/] [https://dev.thecrimson.com/article/1981/11/9/tom-lehrer-pbrbumors-to-the-contrary/]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:55, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

== Acronyms are the spice of life ==

Why do we have [[WP:CURLY]] and [[WP:MOE]] but not [[WP:LARRY]]? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 15:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
:If you put "Template:Larry" into the search box, and let it offer suggestions, there are a bunch of them, for persons with that first name. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
:Do you realize the insult to [[Shemp_Howard|Shemp]] you have placed on the most watched page in Wikipedia? [[User:Objective3000|O3000]] ([[User talk:Objective3000|talk]]) 01:11, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
:Quick, someone write a page called [[Wikipedia:Let admins readily revert you]].--'''[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]]'''-''<small>([[Black Lives Matter|BLM!Resist The Orange One]])</small>'' 12:55, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
::(cough) [[Wikipedia:LARRY]] --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 14:26, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

== BS ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Surreal Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Surreal_Barnstar.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Surreal Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | {{Burma-shave
| 1=If you do not like his posts
| 2=Just what bothers you the most?
| 3=If you do like, drink a toast,
| 4=To the jokester with the most!
| 5=
| 6=
| layout=
}} --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 05:27, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
|}

== No new posts? ==
[[File:Hjerleid 2016 2.jpg|thumb|upright|These posts look pretty old. --Tryptofish]]
How am I to be entertained? --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 09:30, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
:You've got it bad. Try reviewing the archives. Maybe that'll hold you. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:45, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
{{clear}}

==DYK for Stella Immanuel==
{{tmbox
|type = notice
|image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#2 September 2020|2 September 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Stella Immanuel]]''''', which you recently nominated. The fact was ''... that '''[[Stella Immanuel]]''' claims that space alien DNA is used in medical treatments, that [[Reptilian conspiracy theory|reptilians]] run the United States government, and that she uses [[hydroxychloroquine]] to cure [[Coronavirus disease 2019|{{nowrap|COVID-19}}]]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Stella Immanuel|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Stella Immanuel]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Stella Immanuel|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Stella Immanuel]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2020-08-23&end=2020-09-12&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Stella_Immanuel daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYKNom -->  [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 12:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

== Commons is not Wikipedia ==
[[File:Portland Vase V&A.jpg|thumb|upright=.7|Sometimes, the truth is hard to vase. [[user:deepfriedokra|DFO]]]]
[[File:Yellow dragon jar (cropped).JPG|right|thumb|upright=.7|[[United_Negro_College_Fund#The_UNCF_motto|A Ming is a terrible thing to waste]].]]
[[File:Abdel_Fattah_el-Sisi,_King_Salman_of_Saudi_Arabia,_Melania_Trump,_and_Donald_Trump,_May_2017.jpg|thumb|upright=1.9|Or never to have had a mind.]]
{{stack|[[File:Dan_Quayle.jpg|thumb|upright=0.8|[[Dan Quayle|And you take the U.N.C.F. model that what a waste it is to lose one's mind or not to have a mind is being very wasteful.]] ]]}}

[[commons:Commons:What Commons is not#Wikimedia Commons is not Wikipedia|Commons is not Wikipedia]]

Because of the way Commons media are embedded into pages on other projects, Commons needs to work differently to other projects. They do not necessarily follow the policies of Wikipedia or other projects. Please stop citing Wikipedia policies on Commons, where those policies do not apply.

(Posted here because of this: “If you want to contact me, drop a line at [[w:User talk:EEng]]. I'm here very seldom.”)

[[User:Brianjd|Brianjd]] ([[User talk:Brianjd|talk]]) 12:35, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

:You mean policies like ''Use common sense''? I realize that's a foreign concept at Commons, common sense being in such short supply over there, but I venture there so seldom that I keep forgetting. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:20, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
::At Commons, we have a [[c:COM:NCS]] policy. <small>Any context for the popcorn-eating [[WP:TPS|TPSs]] around here, or nah?</small> —&#8205;[[User:Mdaniels5757|Mdaniels5757]] ([[User talk:Mdaniels5757|talk]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Mdaniels5757|contribs]]) 16:37, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
:::I cropped out a vase (see ''File history'' at the bottom of [[c:File:Congresswoman_Pelosi_meets_San_Francisco%27s_District_Attorney,_Kamala_Harris;_March_30,_2004.jpg]]) and got accused of "vandalism". You can imagine my reaction [https://commons.wikimedia.org/?oldid=439103913#Hi]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:09, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
::::[[User:Brianjd|Brianjd]], what is the Wikipedia policy that EEng has been accused of mentioning on Commons? If it's [[WP:VANDALISM]], you yourself said, {{tq| EEng said that good faith edits are never vandalism, which matches my understanding of the word “vandalism”}}. [[User:Pawnkingthree|P-K3]] ([[User talk:Pawnkingthree|talk]]) 17:22, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}[[The Yada Yada|What are you, ''some sort of anti-vaseite'']]? --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 18:21, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
:::::I'm unpleasantly reminded of an incident some years ago, when I found the culture at Commons to be even more problematic than that here at en-Wiki (which, in my current state of mind, is really saying something). An en-Wiki editor got blocked at Commons over what was basically a mis-communication, and vented at the Commons admin over the admin not having understood something that they should have understood. In return, the en-Wiki editor was called a "racist", and when I pointed out that this was an inappropriate thing to say, I was threatened (unsuccessfully) with a Commons block myself. {{facepalm}}. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:00, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
::::::Obviously you're just not mellow enough to let that little jibe fly. </sarc>--'''[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 22:07, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
:::::::Ah, yes! Mellow! As I understand that, they use the phrase "be mellow" to mean "don't disagree with me". --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:14, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}{{yo|Tryptofish}}, "They call me [[Mellow Yellow]], (quitely rightly)".  "I'm just mad about Saffron, she's just mad about me."..."Electrical banana, Is bound to be the very next phase." {{Cite web|url=https://www.metrolyrics.com/mellow-yellow-lyrics-donovan.html|title=Donovan - Mellow Yellow Lyrics &#124; MetroLyrics|website=www.metrolyrics.com}} Oh, 1966...hit them with a mellow banana. <b>[[User:Tribe of Tiger|<span style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Tribe of Tiger</span>]] [[User Talk:Tribe of Tiger|<sup style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Let's Purrfect!</sup>]]</b> 04:29, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
:{{tq|Electrical banana, Is bound to be the very next phase}}{{snd}}Huh. Maybe [[Donovan]] was an electrical engineer. See [[Polyphase_system#Higher_phase_order]]. Never thought of that. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:11, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
::I guess that's what happens following a botched vase-sectomy. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:36, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
::Whoa...colour me fazed! Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana, or somesuch, sounds like a good name for LSD, back in the day. Nowadays, we must be concerned about our Mings...er, minds. Higher phase order sounds like something from Star Trek. Kirk to Scotty: "Shift us to higher phase order!" Scotty: "Aye, Captain, 'tis faster than warp speed!" <b>[[User:Tribe of Tiger|<span style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Tribe of Tiger</span>]] [[User Talk:Tribe of Tiger|<sup style="font-family:Segoe print;color:#B22222">Let's Purrfect!</sup>]]</b> 23:11, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
{{Re|Pawnkingthree}} [[User talk:EEng#Commons is not Wikipedia]] was originally a level 2 heading, but EEng demoted it to a level 3 heading. I was not referring to the most recent incident, already described here by EEng, but rather previous sections on the talk page regarding similar incidents. [[User:Brianjd|Brianjd]] ([[User talk:Brianjd|talk]]) 14:38, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
*I think common sense is specifically banned on Commons, but I forget the link. But it was foolish not to upload the crop as a new image, which should be done in all but exteme(ly useless) cases. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 18:10, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
*:Oh, just because you're a fine-arts junkie and all into vases and stuff. But I'm afraid even your criterion of ''extremely useless'' is not going to save us{{snd}}check out [[c:User talk:EEng#Photo_cropping]]. (Ouch{{snd}}I did unthinkingly cite some WP guidelines there.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
[[File:1890_Nude_Spanking_Image.png|thumb|upright=1.3|Some prefer the switch, others prefer the crop.]]
{{stack|[[File:Congresswoman Pelosi meets San Francisco's District Attorney, Kamala Harris; March 30, 2004 (cropped).jpg|right|thumb|EEng is officially allowed to crop this one further if he should like.]]}}
*[https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/70473-break-a-vase-and-the-love-that-reassembles-the-fragments “Break a vase, and the love that reassembles the fragments is stronger than that love which took its symmetry for granted when it was whole.”] --[[Derek Walcott]]. --[[User:GRuban|GRuban]] ([[User talk:GRuban|talk]]) 21:36, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
[[File:Left shoulder.jpg|thumb|0.6|This is a close-up? [[User:Deepfriedokra|DFO]]</br>Not of the image just above it, it isn't. [[User:Tryptofish|TRYP]]]]
[[File:Deface.jpg|thumb|left|EEng was here!]]
*You know about {{tl|CSS image crop}}, right? No need to change the image on commons when you can just use the part of it that you want here. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 22:23, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
*:That always seemed problematic to me, since if the image at Commons changes in some way then your article suddenly displays a closeup of the person's shoulder. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:30, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
*::Maybe that's one reason that commons prefers significant changes to images to be done as a new upload? —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 22:41, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
*:::Except even ''any'' change can screw up the CSS image crop thing, and they do allow some changes (even if no one can seem to explain what those allowed changes are). So as usual it's all a house of cards with half-baked rules not-solving the problem. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:45, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
*::::All you had to do after you cropped it was click on "save as new image", but no, you had to devase the original. 😂 [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 17:29, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

== Thank you! ==

I appreciate the attribution--it seems I am finally a real Wikipedian!  Feel free to use to your heart's content.  Cheers. [[User:Dumuzid|Dumuzid]] ([[User talk:Dumuzid|talk]]) 04:43, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
:Think nothing of it. Imagine{{snd}}with a mere wave of my wand I can grant any peon immortality. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:07, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
::Oh, I'm sorry but you misspelled the correct word - it's not immortality - remove the "t" - surely it was a slip of the ''left'' index finger. It happens. 😂 [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:12, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

== Phineas Gage ==

You are displaying serious [[WP:OWNERSHIP]] issues here, the history off that page is just you reverting editors who have made changes. Do I need to raise this at ANI or are you going to slow down and start co-operating? [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 10:25, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
:I think everyone knows that an ANI thread of that nature will consist of a lot of hostility with no resolution. My advice is, instead, to have an RfC about any content disputes, and to expect all editors to accept whatever consensus emerges from that. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 15:41, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
:{{ec}} Interesting. In your contemplated complaint will you be supplying diffs, citing guidelines, and addressing the merits of the edits themselves (as I have been doing), or will you make accusations without evidence, claim that guidelines say the opposite of what they say, and mindlessly assert that what you happen to have seen in other articles is the way every article has to be (as you have been doing)?
:You made three edits yesterday. Two were directly contrary to guidelines and completely inappropriate:
:*In this edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=978157173] you removed the subject's middle initial from the infobox header, justifying that change (after I reverted) with the incorrect statement that "we use name of article" [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=978243748]. In fact, [[:Template:Infobox_person]] provides that {{tq|If middle initials are specified (or implied) by the lead of the article, and are not specified separately in the {{para|birth_name}} parameter, include them here.}} 
:*In this edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=978157275] you used a script to change the established format for access dates in references (in violation of [[MOS:DATERET]]), remove a hidden note intended for future article improvement, and alter direct quotations. Apparently you failed to review the script's changes before saving; [[WP:US|Tsk tsk]]. 
:In the third edit, you changed the article's opening from 
::'''Phineas P. Gage''' (1823{{ndash}}1860) was ...
:to
::'''Phineas P. Gage''' (July 9, 1823 – May 21, 1860) was ...
:This is a matter of editorial discretion; [[MOS:BIRTHDATE]] endorses both approaches (given that the full dates are given both in the infobox and in the article text proper). The article has long been the way it is, I think it's the better way, and have explained why [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=978228410]. You boldly changed it and I reverted, but instead of giving reasons you simply restored your preferred version with the meaningless statement that your approach is "standard for ledes" [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=978243786], by which you apparently mean that's what you've seen in other articles so that's the way it has to be, as if the guideline doesn't exist. Any actual... ya know, ''reasons'' for your change? I seem to recall your fellow admin {{U|David Eppstein}} addressing this question at some point, so perhaps he will have some comment.
:On top of everything else, in violation of [[WP:MINOR]] you marked all three edits as minor, which none of them were. I would have thought though that an admin with such an extensive record of script gnoming and creation of literally thousands and thousands of stubs on soccer players would know better.
:Your kind of blind minsitrations perhaps, on average, improve typical ill-developed junky articles that have grown by hook or by crook without careful attention by experienced editors, but when you run into a highly developed article you should think twice to be sure you know what you're doing{{snd}}not just close your eyes and hit <SAVE>. Our esteemed fellow editor {{U|Beyond My Ken}} put it very well [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=673442096#Ownership]:
::{{tq|The flip side of "ownership" is the problem of editors who come to an article with a particular agenda, make the changes they want to the page according to their preconceived notions of what should be, and then flit off to their next victim, without ever considering whether the page really needed the change they made, or whether the change improved the article at all{{nbsp}}... Their editing is an off-the-rack, one-size-fits-all proposition, premised on the idea that what improves one article, or one type of article, will automatically improve every other article or type of article{{nbsp}}... Wikipedians should worry more about those who hit-and-run, and less about those who feel stewardship towards the articles they work so hard on.}}

:I look forward to your ANI complaint. Should be fun. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:50, 14 September 2020 (UTC) 
:P.S. The foregoing was mostly for the record. What would really happen at ANI, I humbly predict, is that someone will point out that you've made no attempt to discuss, after which someone else will, if we are lucky, add a Burma-shave:

{{Burma-shave-notice|1=contentdispute|layout=horizontal}}

----

[[File:Himla med ögonen.gif|thumb|upright=.7|Hmmm. [[user:deepfriedokra|DFO]]]]Are GiantSnowman and/or TheRamblingMan (indistinguishable in this specific behavior) still going around using automated date-conversion scripts? The only way I found to keep them at bay was to use a very specific use-date template for all articles I create. (That is, if you really want numerical archive-date and access-date, add the highly-obvious parameter {{para|cs1-dates|ly}} to the {{tl|use mdy dates}} template.) GiantSnowman's alteration of three direct quotes in the pursuit of date standardization shows the danger of unchecked scripts for this purpose. Anyway, I totally agree re the point you actually mentioned me for: that year ranges can be adequate in the lead sentence even when more precise dates are known, as long as those dates are expanded later. [[MOS:BIRTHDATE]] "if they are also mentioned in the body, the vital year range (in brackets after the person's full name) may be sufficient to provide context". —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 18:04, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
[[File:Dinner at Cracker Barrel- unsweetened iced tea, fried apples, fried okra, chicken 'n' dumplins, country ham, hush puppies, macaroni and cheese, fried fish, biscuits, corn bread.jpg|thumb|Fish and karate meets Deepfriedokra <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:29, 14 September 2020 (UTC)</sup>]]
:I certainly don't want to dash anyone's hopes, but after a look at it, it does seem to me that [[MOS:DASH]] indicates that chapter and page ranges should be done with n-dashes rather than hyphens. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:57, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
::Dash it all! ''ANother'' MOS dust-up? Where will it all ''end''? --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 18:59, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
::[[Hyphen War|Great Ghu!  By the color purple, sacred unto Ghu, who is Great.]] --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 19:01, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
:::::So there actually was something called the [[Hyphen War]]! I love it! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:44, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
:::::But what did the [[Goo Goo Dolls|Goo Goos]] have to do with it? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:48, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
:::Sorry, but what concerns me most is the possibility of a cross between {{u|Deepfriedokra}} and {{u|Fish and karate}} - all kinds of visions swirl around in my head such as {{u|Tryptofish|fried fish}} served on a platter with breaded okra - but in order to enjoy that meal, you have to know karate to fend off the [[Living Dead|opposition]]. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC)</sup>
::::Why Atsme, you used hyphens when you should have used n-dashes! (And I can vouch that my brain has been fried for a long time!) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:41, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
:::::Ahem...A man eating fish was miraculously saved by a hyphen from a man-eating fish. Your safety was my only concern. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
<small>[[Veteran of the Psychic Wars|You see me here a veteran of a thousand hyphen wars. My energy's gone at last and my armor is destroyed. I've used up all my weapons, and I'm helpless and bereaved. Wounds are all I'm made of.]] <small>apologies to [[Blue Öyster Cult]]</small></small> --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 22:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
:<small>I rarely get this opportunity...''if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen''...what better fit than now? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:34, 14 September 2020 (UTC)</small>

== Never let it be said that Star Trek fans have a sense of humor ==

[[Special:Diff/981833850|Sigh...]] —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 19:53, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
:Mr Spock was our first clue back in [https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/movies/movie-news/leonard-nimoy-spocks-most-memorable-quotes-from-star-trek-31029000.html the day:] {{tq|"May I say that I have not thoroughly enjoyed serving with Humans? I find their illogic and foolish emotions a constant irritant."}} [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 23:37, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
::[[File:Facepalm3.svg|15px |link= |alt=Facepalm]] '''Facepalm''' --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 03:49, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

== Infobox image syntax ==

Re [[Jean Berko Gleason]], please remember to [[WP:AGF]]. What {{u|Dhpage}} and I both did in this article was to fix the image syntax so that the article is not listed in [[:Category:Pages using infoboxes with thumbnail images]] per the documentation there and at [[WP:IBI]]. 

The current version of the article is listed in [[:Category:Pages using deprecated image syntax]] and is susceptible to being fixed again, although this category is not currently addressed as attentively as [[:Category:Pages using infoboxes with thumbnail images]]. 

I would appreciate it if you did not disparage editors acting within consensus with edit summaries like "pay attention" or "you f***ed it up".

If you feel the image needs to be displayed in a non-default ratio, you should ask at {{txl|infobox academic}} for support of {{para|upright}}. [[User:MB|<b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b>]] 03:15, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
:AGF means I'm supposed to assume you're trying to help, and of that I have no doubt, but at the same time [[WP:CIR]] says that I don't have to blindly pretend you know what you're doing, which you don't.
:*I made an editorial decision that the reader's experience would be improved by adding {{para|upright}} to adjust the size of the image [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=981245438], though in doing so I unthinkingly used {{para|thumb}} instead of (as called for by [[WP:IBI]]) using {{para|frameless}}{{snd}}sorry, force of habit.
:*Instead of simply correcting ''thumb'' to ''frameless'' (as{{snd}}I repeat{{snd}}called for by WP:IBI, ''which <u>you</u> are citing'') you mindlessly reverted my change [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=981321316]. So, yeah, you didn't (as your edit summary claimed) "fix" anything; instead (as I said [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=next&oldid=981321316]) you {{tq|fucked it up}}.
:*I realized my mistake and reinserted the size adjustment using ''frameless'' [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=981437004].
:*And now you're here telling me that the article {{tq|is listed in [[:Category:Pages using deprecated image syntax]]}} (apparently one of those categories gnomes use to give them something to do so they can feel useful) and therefore is {{tq|susceptible to being fixed again}}. In other words, apparently having nothing useful to do, you plan to spend your time "fixing" something that isn't broken, and in fact is in complete compliance with the guideline you yourself cited: WP:IBI.
:*And after all that you've got the nerve to suggest that if '''''*I*''''' {{tq|feel the image needs to be displayed in a non-default ratio}} then '''''*I*''''' {{tq|should ask at {{txl|infobox academic}} for support of {{para|upright}}}}. No, if '''''*you*''''' want to clear your stupid categegory then '''''*you*''''' ask at {{txl|infobox academic}} for support of {{para|upright}}, after which '''''*you*''''' can go around removing {{para|frameless}} (or whatever floats '''''*your*''''' boat) without messing up the appearance of the articles involved.
:In the meantime don't fuck with what the reader sees just to clear your stupid misbegotten category. Productive editors have precious little tolerance for this kind of mindless gnoming. Got it? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:23, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
:P.S.: [[WP:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_October_5#Category:Pages_using_deprecated_image_syntax]].
::No answer. Huh. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
:::<small>Might still be scrolling? [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 07:02, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
::::When I get around to it I'm gonna squash you like a bug. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:07, 6 October 2020 (UTC)</small>
*fwiw [[Special:Diff/982135565]]. [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] ([[User talk:ProcrastinatingReader|talk]]) 11:06, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
*:Most kind of you. I'll leave it to {{U|MB}} to alter the article to take advantage of it, thus notching down that silly list by one. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:11, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
*::Speaking of the list, I don't know why, if the issue matters that is, we don't just unleash a bot on it. It could take care of most cases without issue, where alternative parameters exist. 86,514 pages is way too much for human review - and for something that can be automated is likely a great waste of peoples' time. Seems like a task designed for the machines, as long as one pays the server bills <s>and [[User:Levivich#Thank_the_bots|gives it some thanks]]</s>. [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] ([[User talk:ProcrastinatingReader|talk]]) 18:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
*:::It's simpler than that. AFAICS, it used to be that there was only an |image= parm in infoboxes, so the way you sized the image or added an alt was to use the extended image syntax in that single field. At some point someone got it in their heads that this was undesirable in some way (in just ''what'' way no one seems to know), and began adding separate |image_size= and |image_alt= parms to the infobox templates, so that you wouldn't need the extended image syntax. (Again, in what way it helps anything to not use the extended image syntax isn't clear.) But they didn't do this to all infoboxes, so in infoboxes that hadn't been augmented you still had to use the extended image syntax.{{pb}}Meanwhile, some do-gooder got the idea to create this "Category:Pages using deprecated image syntax", implying that there's something actually wrong with using the extended image syntax, so that other do-gooders (as seen above) get the idea they should seek out and kill its use ''even where that removes function such as image size''. It's all a complete waste of time. Until someone can explain why not, the extended image syntax was, and is, fine. It did, and does, what's wanted. It can just stay. No one needs to do anything. No infoboxes need new parameters. No category is needed. No bot or human review wanted. Complete waste of time. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
*::::Especially since the existence of convenient parameters to size images by absolute numbers of pixels encourages editors to do so, inappropriately, when they should be using upright= relative sizing. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 20:35, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
*:::::EEng, I share your feelings about this. Over time, I've become increasingly dissatisfied with the let's-police-technical-details-that-have-no-value-for-our-readers mentality that has become a part of Wiki-culture (especially in templates and categories). If I wanted to be charitable, I would note that we have a lot of editors who are [[Autism spectrum|on the spectrum]], and who are drawn to these things. (And before anyone blows a gasket, I hasten to add that I have no idea about, nor am implying anything about, the editors in this dispute. Also, there are many on-the-spectrum editors whose work I appreciate very, very much.) But I wish those editors would stick to tasks that are actually helpful to our readers. And, regardless of the underlying reasons for ''any'' editor's work, there is too much pointless creation of distractions for editors who actually want to contribute content, and too much tolerance of it. Worse, the trivia police tend to revise guidelines that no one else pays attention to, and then they say "but look what the guideline says!". ''Sighs loudly.''
*:::::And as I ponder this annoyance, I also want to formally and officially apologize to you for that time, years ago, when I gave you a hard time over the formatting of the Gage page. In hindsight, I was wrong. What matters is what our readers see. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:56, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
*:::::: Since in literally 5 minutes I'll be getting in the chair for a root canal, that's a particularly well timed bit of pleasant news. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
*:::::::That's me: pleasant as a root canal! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:28, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
*::::::::Don't sell yourself short:, I'm saying you're ''better'' than a root canal. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:07, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
*:::::::::Very few people would agree with that. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:22, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
*::::::::::Totally commenting on this almost a year after the fact but suck it up buttercup. {{ping|Tryptofish}}, you are most definitely better than a root canal. Carry on. --[[User:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b76e79">'''A'''</span><span style="color:#be4f60">'''Rose'''</span>]][[User talk:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b87333">'''Wolf'''</span>]] 12:54, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
*:::::::::::{{ping|ARoseWolf}} OK, but just barely. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:32, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
*::::::::::::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jN1bqGr3ZY We're bubblin' on the Top 100, just like a mighty dread!] -- [[User:Martinevans123|ARseWolf 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:11, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
*::::::{{ec}}I think it's a mixed bag, generally speaking. The difference between infoboxes using {{para|birth_date}}, {{para|BirthDate}} or {{para|DateOfBirth}} doesn't matter either to the readers - the output is the exactly the same. But it's a slight pain in the ass if every other infobox uses a totally different parameter name and doesn't support the aliases. That's one area that should probably be kept consistent, so editors don't need to waste time reading docs after their chosen parameter doesn't output anything. Considering 'value for readers' is a hazy line; taken literally it's likely the majority of wiki-activity isn't productive, including most work on [[:Category:Wikipedia backlog]] and various tracking cats, project-space pages, discussions, essays, templates, cats, etc. And maybe it isn't, since no matter what area of the wiki people stop working on (maintenance, administration, or others) the project always keeps going, apparently without novel noticeable issues. [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] ([[User talk:ProcrastinatingReader|talk]]) 22:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
*:::::: I used to be "on the spectrum," but now I just [[Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons|boss people around about infobox image syntax]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:16, 14 September 2021 (UTC) {{small|p.s. did someone just say [[Build Me Up Buttercup|"fuck it up buttercup"]]??}}
*::::::::<small>[[I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!|Sounded that way to me, but I was in my cups.]] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:32, 14 September 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::::::: <sub>{{emoji|1F609}} I think there's enough of that going around. I've heard it's in the water!--[[User:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b76e79">'''A'''</span><span style="color:#be4f60">'''Rose'''</span>]][[User talk:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b87333">'''Wolf'''</span>]] 15:31, 14 September 2021 (UTC)</sub>

==Hive mind to the rescue==
One of you {{tps}}s will know this... Within the past few months I told a story about a school board meeting when I was in high school.  It wasn't here, but I can't think of where. Might have been a user talk or article talk or WP talk. Anyone recall? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:31, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
:I vaguely remember this! Something about not decorating biographies with photos of replacement school buildings for a school with different buildings that the student had attended? But I don't remember where, either. It doesn't seem to have been my talk. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 05:39, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
::Funny how the mind connects things. That would have been a discussion with {{U|Cullen328}} re Kamala Harris, and your recollection seems right, but I think the discussion branched off somewhere else, which is where I made the post I'm looking for. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:47, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
:::I remember reading your anecdote. Something about how brilliant you were in arguing your case before the school board, even though "the man" tried to get you to shut up. In the end, everyone recognized how right you were. But I do not remember the exact context. We tangled a bit about the childhood of Kamala Harris. I had been in Berkeley and had taken photos of her childhood home (remarkably unchanged) and the school she had famously been bussed to. You were quite harsh about my school photo, saying that any ignoramus (not quoting precisely) should know by the characteristic California school architecture that the school had been completely rebuilt since Harris attended, and that my photo was ignorant crap. I tucked my tail between my legs, slinked off, and did not object to removal of the photo from the article, since I was clearly up against a more formidable intellect. Anyway, I hope this helps refresh your memory. Always happy to try to be of assistance. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 06:03, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
::::{{tq|slinked off}}{{snd}}[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixljWVyPby0#t=1m3s Surely] you mean ''slunk'' off. (''Dig{{snd}}dug; cling{{snd}}clung; sling{{snd}}slung; slink{{snd}}slunk''.) I too am always happy to be of assistance. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:04, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::Do you have any amusing images about pedantry? [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 04:44, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
::::::Let me check my files: ''peddlers... pediatricians... pedicabs...'' Wow! Nothing on pedantry. I've got ''pederasty''{{snd}}will that do? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:04, 9 October 2020 (UTC) 
:::::::Please refrain for the benefit of all of us, although your never-ending helpfulness is charming. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 05:11, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
*Y'all clearly do not know how to use the Wikipedia search function: [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=982291098#Hey!]. -- [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 07:19, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
*:Yes, that's it. Thanks! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:04, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
*::[[How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (TV special)|''Stink, stank, STUNK!'']] --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 10:09, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
*:::That link to the earlier discussion makes for interesting reading. So EEng has had a "career as an irritant". And here I always assumed that he did it for free. So, Mr. Know-It-All, your high school principal "kept a tarantula in his office named Harriet". What a strange name for one of his offices! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:33, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
*::::No kidding, when I wrote that I thought, "Which one of this bunch is going to call me on that?" [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:05, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
*::::Hey, {{U|Cullen328}}, maybe Tfish has an amusing image on pedantry. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:04, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
*:::::All I want to know now are the names of your principal's other offices. I am hoping that at least one was called Vampire bat. I am in an October mood. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 05:17, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
*::::::He had just the one. One day I asked the school psychologist, who was an accomplished calligrapher, to make a little placard: ''[[wikiquote:Divine_Comedy#Canto_III|Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate]]'', which I then glued to his (the principal's) door. I understand it stayed there until he retired. It was an unusual school. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:39, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
*:::::::And I imagine that you made it particularly queer.{{fbdb}} So for that image you want me to find, do you want a photo of me teaching, or of you teaching? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:16, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
*::::::::I just remembered something else. Somehow I came into possession of the guts of a little music box, like this [[File:Music_box_elements.jpg|frameless|upright=0.55]], which played [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGTx4BT_SUY <click here>]. One day I got into his office and screwed it to the back of his desk next to where he sat. He loved it. He'd crank it for students in hot water. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:21, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

== Gag edit? ==
[[File:Donald_J._Trump,_45th_President_of_the_United_States_(37521073921).jpg|thumb|upright=0.6|99. Tax cheat living in public housing]]
Was reading through ANI and was a bit baffled by [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=982818953&oldid=982818131&diffmode=source this edit you made]... was it supposed to be a gag on the weird images they had uploaded? <span style="text-shadow:2px 2px 4px red;">[[User:MrAureliusR|<span style="color:red"> '''<big>M</big>r<big>A</big>urelius<big>R</big>'''</span>]]</span><span style="text-shadow:3px 3px 4px blue;"><small>[[User_talk:MrAureliusR|<sub>Talk!</sub>]]</small></span> 03:30, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
:Indeed. Funny thing, there was a time that someone or other would step in to say we're supposed to give Trump the benefit of the doubt because, oh, maybe he's just ''pretending'' to be a deranged sociopath. People seem to have gotten over that.{{pb}}Meanwhile, in other news (since we're on the subject), the more severely mentally challenged of the stable genius's two older sons turns out not to know what a vaccine is [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha5-s7QS9mM]. Now to be fair, a lot of people don't know what a vaccine is, but most would have the sense not to go on network TV blabbing about it without at least looking in a dictionary first. Of course for that you need to be able to recite the letters of the the alphabet ''in the right order''.  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:59, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
::I demand that you stop violating [[WP:BLP]]. Wikipedia is about venerability, not truth.--'''[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 14:58, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
:::I'm sure venereal ability is in there somewhere  among the sur-reality . --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 15:29, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

== Caption competition ==

[[File:-UNGA (48784021923).jpg|thumb|300px]]

We can have a pretty good guess what these two are thinking about each other, but what exactly? I'll start off with "''Free image''? Only dumb people give away work for free, that's like the stupidest idea in the world evaaaaaaaah" [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 12:21, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
:I honestly don't get what you're saying, but I'll just note that the file description for that photo says {{tq| President Donald J. Trump participates in a pull-aside with New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern}}. I don't know what a pull-aside is and, frankly, with Trump in the mix I don't want to know. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:24, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
::Well we had a similar [[caption competition]] upthread, which Girth Summit won, so I thought there was demand for another one. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 13:33, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

== Feedback request: Wikipedia technical issues and templates request for comment ==

[[File:Internet-group-chat.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]Your feedback is requested &#32;at [[Template talk:Expert needed#rfc_7EF3272|'''Template talk:Expert needed'''&#32; on a "Wikipedia technical issues and templates" request for comment]]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of [[WP:FRS|Feedback Request Service]] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by [[WP:FRS|removing your name]].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by [[User:Yapperbot|Yapperbot]] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact [[User talk:Naypta|my bot operator]]. &#124; Sent at  02:31, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
::::Yapperbot, I've asked you several times to cut out the unwanted advances. I'm not into [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=984157540#Museum_of_Computer_Porn  computer sex]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:39, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

== I prefer fish to fire ==

{| style="margin: 2em auto; text-align: center;"
|-
| [[File:Rainbow trout transparent.png|175px|link=Wikipedia:Trout]]
| style="width: 280px; vertical-align: middle; padding-top: 0.5em;" | [[WP:TROUT|<b style="font-size: 225%; color: Red;">''Whack!''</b>]] <br /> <p style="font-size: 115%;">''You've been [[WP:TROUT|whacked with a wet trout]].''</p><small>Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you did something silly.</small>
|} --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:43, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
::Izno is too kind to link to my psychotic outburst at [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=984578929#Removing_/right/_option_in_image_syntax]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:54, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
:::Perfectly understandable, and nothing that a good drink cannot ameliorate. And, of course, ''all'' discerning editors have a liking for fish. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:25, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
::::You ever try mixing cold wet fish ''and'' hot dry fire? Disgusting! Some psychotic discerners swear it's better that way, though. [[User:InedibleHulk|InedibleHulk]] ([[User talk:InedibleHulk|talk]]) 13:55, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::I hate it when I get all justifiably righteous and it turns out I'm neither justifiable nor right. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 14:31, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

==All animals are equal, but some animals ... No, really, all animals are equal==
WMF's [[meta:Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Draft_review]] provides:
:{{tq|In all Wikimedia projects, spaces and events, behaviour will be founded in respect, civility, collegiality, solidarity and good citizenship. This applies to all contributors and participants in their interaction with all contributors and participants, without distinction based on age, mental or physical disabilities, physical appearance, national, religious, ethnic and cultural background, caste, social class, language fluency, sexual orientation, gender identity, sex or career field. '''Nor will we distinguish based on standing, skills or accomplishments in the Wikimedia projects or movement.'''}}

(Bold boldly emboldened.) {{tps}}s are encouraged to join a discussion of that last bit: [[meta:Talk:Universal_Code_of_Conduct#Nor_will_we_distinguish_based_on_standing,_skills_or_accomplishments_in_the_Wikimedia_projects_or_movement.]] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
::I'm keeping my nose out of that discussion, but a shout-out to {{U|ProcrastinatingReader}} and {{U|Tryptofish}} for excellent posts. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:40, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
:::Agreed. {{(:}} But of course fish are actually superior to some other animals. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:38, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
::::Just remember, you can tune a filesystem but you can't tune a, well, you know the rest.  [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]])</small></small> 21:54, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::I just posted because the inclusion of 'skills' seemed very weird. I certainly don't think we should give people a by because they're skilled, but this possibly could be interpreted to say that we can't ding them because they're ''unskilled.'' Am I being obtuse? [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 13:30, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
::::::Well personally I think I deserve a by. I've had plenty of gays and it's time for a change. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:32, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::::Not sure why I was pinged. I'm not bi. Although there was that one time in college. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 09:22, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
::::::::I'm not buying it either.
:::::::::''Bold boldly emboldened the range''
:::::::::''Inclusion of 'skills' does seem strange.''
::::::::::''So if you can't ding them''
::::::::::''Neither should you ping them.''
::::::::::''While with your nose out''
::::::::::''You can still give a shout-out.''
::::::::::''(No you are not obtuse
::::::::::''On the filesystem use.)''
:::::::::''And  EEng deserves a sex change.''
::::::::--[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:39, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::::It's hard to know what to say. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:30, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::::These are difficult times. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:48, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==

[[File:Internet-group-chat.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]Your feedback is requested &#32;at [[Talk:Pit bull#rfc_E0F1810|'''Talk:Pit bull'''&#32; on a "Maths, science, and technology" request for comment]]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of [[WP:FRS|Feedback Request Service]] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by [[WP:FRS|removing your name]].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by [[User:Yapperbot|Yapperbot]] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact [[User talk:Naypta|my bot operator]]. &#124; Sent at  16:31, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
:I just hope there's been no [[WP:HOUNDING]] or [[WP:BITEY]] behavior going on in that discussion.{{refn|Note: Recycled joke.}} [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:44, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for ''finally'' shortening the United States Senate section on the [[Joe Biden]] article. '''[[User:Username6892|<span style="color: #00aaaa;">Username</span>]][[User talk:Username6892|<sup><span style="color: #44aa00">6892</span></sup>]]''' <sub>([[Wikipedia:Peer review/Erin O'Toole/archive1|Peer Review]])</sub> 01:24, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
|}
:Well aren't you sweet! There's more to do but I pooped out. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:30, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

== Remarkable ==
[[File:Clothed breast bondage.jpg|thumb|upright=0.5|Remarkable restraint {{right|-[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]]}}]]
You are showing remarkable restraint at [[Talk:Joe Biden]]. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 03:48, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
:But it ran out on [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=997189314#%22_%E2%80%A6_is_an_American_politician%22 Kamala Harris] (see esp. the collapse box). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:21, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
::Good god, you and Fowler&Fowler are both completely mad. [''Reaches for wordsmyth.net.'']  Around the bend. Batty. Cuckoo. Mental. Suffering from rabies. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 15:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC).
:::
:::I'm not going to get involved in the actual thread because I don't care, but I take issue with {{tq|because readers not mentally defective, from whatever geography or culture, will know without being told that an American vice-president-to-be is (duh!) an American politician}}. You know and I know that the US has the "native born" clause, but there's no reason for readers elsewhere to know that and in most countries it's not wildly unusual for politicians to be citizens of other countries owing to the complex rules governing who got what citizenship when the British, French and Portuguese colonial empires collapsed. (Until a couple of years ago Boris Johnson was a US citizen, there was a minor diplomatic incident recently when UK government minister Nadhim Zahawi was banned from entering the US owing to his Iraqi citizenship; and you have people like [[Claire Hanna]] who serve in the British parliament without even a dual let alone a sole British nationality. I'm sure the same is true in every other former colonial power and most former colonies, as well—probably half the adult population of Macau and Hong Kong are officially Portuguese or British citizens.)&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 16:55, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
::::I get both sides. I also have an extreme aversion to lecturing people on grammar. I was taught that it’s something you should never do to an adult as correcting grammar is something that you do to children, so when doing it you’re effectively treating someone like a child. It’s basically one of the rudest things you can do in English. Anyway, all that to say, I get why you’re pissed off (I see {{u|MelanieN}} commented on it, so I’ll ping her for my take here 😅.){{pb}}On the merits, I actually disagree that “we do this for everyone” is a bad argument. Consistency of style on major articles helps us create a house voice of sorts, which in turn makes us seem more professional and helps the reader know what to expect in an article in terms of structure. Consistency is more reader friendly.{{pb}}That being said, if I had to build the entire system from scratch I’d dump it for largely the same reasons you (EEng) are describing. Ignoring the citizenship context, ''of course'' a member of the US Senate and VP-elect is an “American politician”. In the cases Iri is describing, I’d actually argue fairly strongly that commonwealth nationals serving in the Parliament of the United Kingdom are ''British politicians'' even without citizenship in the UK/colonies or nationality: if they’re elected by the British public to serve in a British political body, they are a ''British politician'' regardless of nationality/citizenship issues. They might be a Canadian or Aussie or Bahamian as well, but that wouldn’t change the fact that they are also very much serving as a British politician. The question of their citizenship in such cases would be worth mentioning, but I’d see that as something to do in cases where such issues arise. Also, on the Hanna topic, I get why calling an Irish person a British politician might not be ideal, so skirting around it by not mentioning anything in the lead seems the most diplomatic way.[[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 19:03, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

== Memory? ==

I've wanted to ask this for a while now. But... [[Special:Diff/987768637]]. And your various other edits where you pick a time in an obscure 4,000 view video or a two-sentence quote from page 386 in some text. Is there some special bookmarking app I don't know about, or some memory pill, or what's going on here? [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] ([[User talk:ProcrastinatingReader|talk]]) 03:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
[[File:Pieter Bruegel the Elder- The Seven Deadly Sins or the Seven Vices - Anger.JPG|thumb|upright=2]]
:You mean stuff like this [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=987795664]? Believe it or not I carry it all around in my head (see right); when I was in college the dean said I was a "coal mine of information". It all started after I was struck by lightning at 5 years old. Modern science has failed to explain it. But don't worry{{snd}}I am sworn to use it only for good, never for evil. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:42, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
[[File:Donald-trump-secim-840x420.jpg|thumb|left|upright|AND NOW BIDEN IS GONNA DESTROY ALL THE COAL MINES OF INFORMATION! I WANNA SAVE ALL THE COAL MINES OF INFORMATION!]]
::Well, ''that'' certainly brings a whole new meaning to "electrical engineering"! Somehow, I envision that it hurt the lightning bolt far worse than it hurt you. (The dean, however, may have been thinking about black lung.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:59, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

*Further evidence for the prosecution: [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1013736678&oldid=1013732488], [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=1014109008]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]]
{{clear}}

==Jarndyce and Jarndyce==
I want to thank you more emphatically than with just a one-click "thanks" for bringing up Jarndyce and Jarndyce on ANI.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=987455245] It made me very happy. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 15:55, 9 November 2020 (UTC).
:Glad to oblige, though I was ensnared in just such a case so my feelings are more mixed. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:27, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

== Template editor right ==
[[File:Paper plates - isolated.png|thumb|150px|Templates that need improvement, but don't screw with the stack; practice safe transects. <small>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:15, 15 November 2020 (UTC)</small>]]
Hi EEng—I see that {{u|David Eppstein}} recently granted you template editor rights. Your edits at {{tl|Talk header}} were a <s>serious</s> breach of [[WP:TPEBOLD]]; it is not at all acceptable to just go ahead and modify a template with 500,000 transclusions just since you think you can improve the wording. Please familiarize yourself with the expectations for editing template-protected pages, or you are likely to lose the right. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>&#123;{u&#124;</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}&#125;</small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 20:44, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
:{{tps}} {{ping|Atsme}} I thought template-editors worked from [[:Category:Wikipedia template-protected edit requests|this set]] which really isn't a [[Stack (abstract data type)|stack]].  Just sayin'. {{smiley}} [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]])</small></small> 21:28, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
::Could we have a reason for the revert over procedural threat. This is a respected editor with thousands of template edits.--<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User_talk:Moxy|Moxy]]</span> <span style="color:red">🍁</span> 21:38, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
''For those playing along at home, this regards the series of edits starting at [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=988880692].''</br/>
{{U|Sdkb}}, my vague recollection is that past interactions with you have been perfectly pleasant, and I'm sure that will continue, but right now you need to calm down and read the very guideline you're citing. TFEBOLD has nothing to do with anything here because it's about ''disputes'', which this isn't{{snd}}except to the extent that you've chosen to create one by pretending that every change requires prior consensus, which as we're about to see is false.

The applicable guideline is actually [[WP:TPECON]], which gives a detailed outline of the kinds of template changes that require prior discussion{{snd}}none of which even conceivably applies here{{snd}}and then specifically calls out "copy-edits of any sort" as among "changes that can almost always be made unilaterally". So contrary to what you claim, editors can in fact (as you put it) {{tq|just go ahead and modify a template with 500,000 transclusions just since you think you can improve the wording}}, because that's what copyediting is. In sum, you have (a) raised a completely specious procedural objection to my changes but (b) given no substantive objection to them whatsoever. Got any? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:24, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ&feature=youtu.be "For disputes, seek..."] —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 23:43, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Good idea. I'll add that link to the template now. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:02, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
:{{ec}}EEng, I've had pleasant interactions with you in the past as well and I'm sorry to have to give you such a harsh warning off the bat, but TPE is a highly advanced right and it's your responsibility to familiarize yourself with the requirements. Your edits gave me concern that you are not approaching template editing with due caution and respect for consensus, and your reply here reinforces that concern.
:TPEBOLD was the shortcut I intended to cite, specifically the {{tq|The normal BOLD, revert, discuss cycle does not apply}} line, given that you [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Talk_header&diff=988881517&oldid=988881256&diffmode=source prefaced] one of your edits with the summary {{tq|BOLD EDIT:}}. That section continues by reiterating the point that any edit that might be controversial should be discussed first; your edits were clearly in that category, given that the [[WP:MINOR|definition]] of an uncontroversial edit is one that could not be disputed and I dispute that your edits were an improvement. Regarding TPECON, the line {{tq|Copy-edits of any sort. (Just be sure you're right!)}} reads to me as clearly referring to grammatical fixes, not things like <s>the addition of the {{tq|[[Wikipedia:Questions|Ask questions, get answers]]}} sentence</s>your edits. If this were a template with a few thousand transclusions, things might be more flexible, but at 500,000 transclusions, it's very clear that prior consensus is expected for that sort of edit.
:More generally, I very much understand that there's a learning curve when you're beginning something new, but especially given that {{u|David Eppstein}} [[Special:UserRights/EEng|granted]] you the right despite your not meeting the [[WP:TPEGRANT]] criteria, this was your chance to show your willingness to take in constructive feedback, and I'm not seeing that here. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>&#123;{u&#124;</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}&#125;</small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 00:13, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
::Hmm. TPECON is just a rough guide. The idea is generally that allowing the opportunity for discussion is preferred when editing high visibility templates, but it comes down to ones best judgement on the changes really. It also slightly backfires sometimes because many times nobody cares enough either way, or instinctively prefers the status quo, so stuff remains shit. I think you, too, have had experiences with this. I don't have much of an opinion here, other than to say either way I don't think it deserves an overly hard spanking - after all, a new admin recently made [[Talk:Main_Page#Edit_links_for_sysops|a bold change on the Main Page]] and got less for it.{{pb}}As for the change itself, I think it's an improvement in the wording. More generally, EEng has a certain eloquence with words that I think is useful in the template namespace, so I'm glad he's a template editor. Hopefully for his next trick he turns his [[Special:Diff/987923249/987924422|talk page purging]] into a bot to more broadly <s>blank</s>clean up the talk page banner mess. In the meantime, perhaps it's worth popping these now-reverted changes onto the talk to discuss? As I say, I think they are clearer. That may be the productive way forward. [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] ([[User talk:ProcrastinatingReader|talk]]) 01:30, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
:::+1 [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 12:52, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
::BTW, I must say this talk page is loading faster than usual. Have you been doing some archiving recently? If so, I'm very disappointed. [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] ([[User talk:ProcrastinatingReader|talk]]) 01:37, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
:::I was planning to invite Iridescent to comment on something, and they're always complaining about load times so I thought I'd make at least a token effort. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:47, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
::Let's see ...
::*I understand that [[WP:TPEBOLD]] is what you meant to reference, but that doesn't make it any less inapplicable, because it's an injuction against abusing the TPE right to gain the upper hand in disputes, which has nothing to do with what we're discussing. The issue here is when to get prior consensus, and that's covered at [[WP:TPECON]].
::*Copyediting may read to you as grammar fixes only, but it's not. See [[Copyediting]].
::*There was no {{tq|addition of the Ask questions, get answers sentence}}; I simply gave the existing sentence its own bullet. [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=next&oldid=988881517]
::*The fact that I drew attention (by calling out ''BOLD'' in the edit summary) to my one edit which was even arguably substantive [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=988881517] does not mean I thought it would be controversial. I didn't and I don't.
::Your reasoning is entirely circular: I shouldn't have made the edits because they're controversial; they're controversial because you disputed them; you disputed them because I shouldn't have made them. Like it says at [[WP:TPEDISPUTE]]:
:::{{tq|A template editor should not revert the edit of their peer on a protected template without good cause, careful thought and (if possible) a prior brief discussion with the template editor whose action is challenged. It is the responsibility of the reverting template editor to demonstrate their revert is not out of sheer reflex.}}
::So  one more time: do you have any ''specific objections'' to the edits themselves (other than your mistaken comment, addressed above, about the "Ask questions, get answers sentence")? Otherwise, as you can probably tell by the other comments here, you're beginning to look silly by continuing to harp about process instead of discussing substance, and your feedback, though well-intended, is misguided.
::Instead of blindly mass-reverting to make a point you should have built on or adjusted what I did, or ''selectively'' reverted. For example, you can't seriously be suggesting that the template should continue to tell readers where to go to find disputes ({{tq|For disputes, seek dispute resolution}}), the absurdity of which Eppstein has so succinctly illustrated above.
::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:47, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
:::You are right regarding the "ask questions" sentence; I misread the way it displayed in the diffs and I apologize about that. I think the point holds up with other examples, but I'm going to strike that, as well as {{tq|serious}} at the top as a gesture of goodwill. I still urge you to be more cautious, though, especially when you're editing a template that appears at the very top of roughly 1 out of every 6 article talk pages on Wikipedia, and to seek discussion first next time.
:::The specific objections I have to the edits is a separate discussion to the procedural one here, and I wish editors would not mix them as it benefits neither. A discussion on the talk page was just opened, and I'll participate there. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>&#123;{u&#124;</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}&#125;</small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 16:57, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
::::I appreciate the strikes and so on, but still this thread has been a complete waste of time. You should have just commented on the edits and saved everyone all this distraction; if you wanted to say, in opening such a discussion, "might have been better to have have discussed these changes first", that would have been fine. The high transclusion count, where those transclusions are outside article space, is of no significance unless you think the result is affirmatively objectionable, not just capable-of-being-improved (and I'll not that most participants at the talk page seem to think that the changes were improvements ''on balance'' over the old text, so in point of fact it would have been better for you to have left them while further improvements were discussed). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:46, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

== Limerick, Harvard, FBDB ==

You might find [[Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Margaret Harwood]] amusing... —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 21:20, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

=== Margaret Harwood ===

Feel free to use the limerick! I might tweak it a little bit - do feel the last line could be punchier, but go with the version you like best. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">'''[[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam Cuerden]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Adam Cuerden|talk]])</sup><sub>Has about 7.7% of all [[WP:FP|FPs]]</sub></span> 23:12, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
:Well you do realize "suck it" resonates with a [[There_once_was_a_man_from_Nantucket#Ribald_versions|well-known earlier work]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:38, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
::True, which is the upside. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">'''[[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam Cuerden]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Adam Cuerden|talk]])</sup><sub>Has about 7.7% of all [[WP:FP|FPs]]</sub></span> 01:08, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
:::Every once in a while I'm struck by the fact that this has to be the filthiest user page on the project. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:22, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
::::I'm wondering if we could get away with the limerick if we made this the April 1st POTD? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">'''[[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam Cuerden]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Adam Cuerden|talk]])</sup><sub>Has about 7.7% of all [[WP:FP|FPs]]</sub></span> 11:24, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
:::::Smart. It might work as "truthful whimsy" -- see [[Wikipedia_talk:April_Fool%27s_Main_Page#The_Ground_Rules]]. Perhaps the entirety of the text/caption for the image could be simply and only the limerick, with the link behind it taking the reader to the article. But the article needs work, really it does. I'll be happy to help but with the Harvard Archives closed it may be tough to do a good job. That's unfortunate, because my spidey sense tell me that [http://id.lib.harvard.edu/via/olvgroup11687/catalog], being a scrapbook by alumni, might have interesting biographical details. By the way [http://id.lib.harvard.edu/via/olvwork347830/catalog][http://id.lib.harvard.edu/via/olvwork366376/catalog][http://id.lib.harvard.edu/via/olvwork347831/catalog][http://id.lib.harvard.edu/via/olvwork347829/catalog][http://id.lib.harvard.edu/via/olvwork347821/catalog]. (She apparently spent a lot of time at the beach.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:36, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

== Here, have a sticker, funny man ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:Barnstar of Integrity Hires.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Integrity'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Two years ago, I came to EEng's userpage to steal memes and replace them with pictures of [[Ned Kelly]]. Over time I realized this user is a vanguard and upholder of our most important value here: [[Satire|the common man's right to defy figures of authority by throwing banoffee pies at their portraits]]. Thank you for keeping Wikipedia sane and free. '''''<span style="font-family:Garamond;">[[User:Double Plus Ungood|Double Plus Ungood]] ([[User talk:Double Plus Ungood|talk]])</span>''''' 06:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
|}
:And I, in turn, want to say thank you for the opportunity to learn, for the first time, of [[banofee pie]]s! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:03, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

== Discussion of guidelines for short descriptions ==

There’s a new [[Wikipedia talk:Short description#Proposal to add dating recommendations to the guidelines|proposal to add dating recommendations to the guidelines]] for short descriptions. Short descriptions are a prominent part of the mobile user experience, but the discussion so far has had relatively few voices. Since you are a top contributor to one or more Manual of Style pages, I thought you might be interested. Cheers —[[User:JamesLucas|jameslucas]] [[User talk:JamesLucas|<span style="font-family:monospace;letter-spacing:-.5px"><sup>▄▄▄&nbsp;▄&nbsp;▄▄▄&nbsp;▄▄▄&nbsp;▄</sup></span>]] 01:44, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
:Well, personally I've always found the ol' dinner-and-a-movie the best bet. Museum and concerts can be good too. Unless you were introduced by a friend, make sure someone knows where you're going and when you expect to be home. See also [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=991447053#Museum_of_Mixing_Business_and_Pleasure]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:05, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

::[https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjFmL29qKztAhWTHH0KHWGEAEgYABABGgJwdg&ae=2&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESQOD2O-6MGQEwy8tj3lD3hJmfrG734wZgVrbdu5HjTf0XJgLE23RVWnIgZ5cKP2-xB1y96Rs3zNHdpgqmZIszxsw&sig=AOD64_1C8EE5vEFTyE_K4UIKYOObPQZIHA&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwinqrW9qKztAhXlNX0KHS0ABy8Q0Qx6BAgSEAE Re:"Fossils can be used for dating"] [[User:Primergrey|Primergrey]] ([[User talk:Primergrey|talk]]) 08:04, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

== This is going to slip under the radar for you ==
[[File:Johnny Mathis 1960.JPG|thumb|upright|[[Johnny Mathis|Johnny Maths-ish]]. --Tryptofish]]
But you have relatively high visibility, at least where Wikipedia subject matter is politically sensitive. Because every change here is more or less permanent, the ship has already sailed, but I urge you to consider the fact that Wikipedia is somehow the most reliable source of consolidated information on the Internet. I get the jokes, the cynicism, the memes, all that, but you are providing an extremely transparent, highly visible profile of personal bias. 
The best practices for information sourcing on Wikipedia provide some protection, but they're not bulletproof. An explicitly partisan affectation by the editors undermines the mission of objective truth, and aggravates the environment in which objective truth is a matter of partisan contention.  [[User:IRSpeshul|IRSpeshul]] ([[User talk:IRSpeshul|talk]]) 05:50, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
::{{buttinsky}} ... but {{u|IRSpeshul|your}} special user page also has explicitly partisan affectations: {{tqq|I like Firefly, classical music, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, hookah tobacco, good liquor, guns, and math. }} [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Levivich|harass]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contribs/Levivich|hound]]</sub> 05:56, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
:::<small>grr, math'''s''' [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] ([[User talk:ProcrastinatingReader|talk]]) 07:29, 3 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
::::<small>See that's the problem with these extremely transparent, highly visible profiles of personal bias: look how aggravated the environment is getting. I'm not one to get into an argument about mathism with a mathist (or, as I believe they prefer to be called, "mathematician"), but we have a lot of articles about math, and we don't want to give the impression that we tilt pro-mathian or are some kind of math-wing website. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Levivich|harass]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contribs/Levivich|hound]]</sub> 07:38, 3 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::::<small>So you're just going to keep calling PR mathist when they've clearly expressed a preference for mathsist? [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 12:50, 3 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
::::::<small>Woe to anyone with a lisp. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:27, 3 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
:I disagree 100%. Everyone has biases. Neutral editing means putting your biases aside when editing (when editing content, anyway), not pretending you don't have any. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:10, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
::Also the original comment comes off as being much like the people who say "I don't have an accent, it's only those people in [other country/other part of same country/other side of tracks in same city] who have accents". Which is to say, un-self-aware. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 22:24, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
:::<small>I'm automatically against anyone who implies I have biases.  --[[User:A D Monroe III|A&#8239;D&#8239;Monroe&#8239;III]]<sup>([[User talk:A D Monroe III#top|talk]])</sup>  03:38, 22 December 2020 (UTC)</small>
::::<small>Biased against them? —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 05:42, 22 December 2020 (UTC)</small>

== In the interest of full disclosure... ==

I am [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive817&action=history linking to this diff] instead of letting you discover it on your own. I know you like a nice blend of irony, useless gnoming, and a nicely worded edit summary, perhaps with a splash of vermouth. (BYOV.) – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 20:40, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
:Oh ''WOW'', man! So ''meta!'' [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:40, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

== Peer review ==

You probably think there's no real truth except what you read in the papers? Look deeper. If someone (me, for example) disagrees with you they may be making an objective (not subjective) observation.

Your group of administrators are behaving like peer reviewers but you aren't treating the matter as factual. You are one level removed, and probably emotionally vested in your viewpoints. That is Cognitive Dissonance and it's very hard to get past. [[User:Are.u.sure|Are.u.sure]] ([[User talk:Are.u.sure|talk]]) 06:30, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
:Between you and [[Andrew Sullivan]] my opinion of Oxford grads has declined substantially over the years. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:05, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
::Well there's Emma Watson. Or was that Hogwarts -- I get them confused. [[User:Objective3000|O3000]] ([[User talk:Objective3000|talk]]) 13:35, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
::I resemble that remark. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 09:38, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
:::And stop calling me illiterate. My mother and father have been married for 45 years. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:00, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
::::<small>😂 [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 23:11, 15 December 2020 (UTC)</small>

=== George Floyd ===

'I have been asked to summarise the changes I have asked for.

Title change from Killing of George Floyd to Death of George Floyd
References employing killed such as was killed changed to suitable alternatives such as died
The facts of the autopsy don't support emphasis on Derek Chauvin's knee. Please shift the emphasis towards those suggested by the autopsy findings
A summary of the autopsy results to be placed near the topAre.u.sure (talk) 11:34, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
The link: https://m.startribune.com/hennepin-county-commissioner-challenges-reappointment-of-medical-examiner/571146502/ strongly points to attempts to politically manage this case. The article should cover this aspect and downplay the other narratives. I look forward to seeing these improvements.Are.u.sure (talk) 11:40, 11 December 2020 (UTC)' [[User:Are.u.sure|Are.u.sure]] ([[User talk:Are.u.sure|talk]]) 04:43, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
:You've been blocked from the Floyd articles and their talk pages for a reason, and continuing your crusade on people's talk pages is going to get you blocked completely. You need to accept what a dozen experienced editors are telling you: you're making a fool of yourself and wasting people's time. If you can't bring yourself to direct your efforts to less fraught topics then Wikipedia can't use you. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:58, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

== Configurable order of references ==

Hi EEng, as we discussed similar means in the past, this might be interesting for you: [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2021/Citations/Configurable_order_of_references_in_references_section]
Cheers --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 13:37, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
:{{U|Matthiaspaul}}, I keep meaning to get back to this to continue the conversation, but I need some quiet time. Remind me if you get impatient, because I don't want to lose this opportunity. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:37, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
:: Don't worry, I'm busy as well and have a huge backlog. I don't expect this to be implemented soon (although this certainly would be great, even if only partially implemented), but the idea and variations on it are on record now and therefore easy to refer to in other discussions.
:: --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 01:41, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
::We all definitely need some quiet time! I hope that all is well with you, EEng. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:03, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

== Happy hols ==

When I was a teenager (back in the day), I had a friend called Denis who had a paper round. He used to complain about how much he hated one customer, who had a subscription to the Sunday Times (famously heavy with loads of glossy pull-outs), because they were the only household he delivered to on a particularly long street, and they lived right at the end of it so he had to go all the way down there, deliver one paper that earned him about 5p, then come all the way back to carry on with his deliveries. For some reason, as I scrolled down to the bottom of your talk, I thought of Denis for the first time in years. 

Anyway, back on task: I don't have any beautiful pictures, coloured backgrounds or fancy code in curly brackets to deliver, they were all too heavy to carry all the way down here, but I do have a plain-text message: I hope you have a splendid holiday season, doing whatever you like (and are allowed) to do. May 2021 be different. All the very best to you and yours. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#006400;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#4B0082;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 19:50, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
:For a moment I thought the heading was ''Happy holes'' but then I looked again and was disappointed.{{pb}}I'm sure Denis would have felt better about it if, instead of being paid a pittance, he was making those delivery for nothing{{snd}}bringing a ray of sunshine into the life of a forgotten shut-in, as you're doing. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:27, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
::I promise you are not forgotten by me. Let's all hope for a new year that will be better than the stinker that is coming to an end. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:09, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

== Best wishes for the holidays ==
{| style="border:2px ; background-color: #FFF7E6;"
|rowspan="2" valign="right" | [[File:Clarke St. Declan (1916).jpg|250px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2; vertical-align: left; height: 1.1em;" | '''Season's Greetings'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Seasons greetings. Hope you and yours are safe and well during this rather bleak period, though I think we will get through it. Best. [[User talk:Ceoil|<span style="color:#006633">Ceoil</span>]] ([[User talk:Ceoil|talk]]) 02:41, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
|}
*Thank you for taking the time. Listen, I have a question. I've always wondered what {{U|Ceoil}} means. Did you used to copyedit paintings, or what? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:20, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
*:Its the Irish for music, sometimes or not spelled with an "i", depending from which part of the country your from. Best enjoyed with crack.[https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/irish-bodhran-drum-beater-ceol-caine-518727466][https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g662290-d5288577-Reviews-Craic_n_Ceol-Puerto_Del_Carmen_Lanzarote_Canary_Islands.html] - this combination of words being a very common banner above pubs, and not what ye Americans might think. But "Ceol, Caint agut [[Craic]]" means "music, talk and banter". Yes, I know, too many jokes :) [[User talk:Ceoil|<span style="color:#006633">Ceoil</span>]] ([[User talk:Ceoil|talk]]) 02:26, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
*::Oh, well, it's the ''i'' that threw me off. Otherwise I'd have recognized it immediately, of course. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:08, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
*:::Yeah, well. ps, might tap you in a few weeks to look at [[Funerary art in Puritan New England]] - it's a bit underwritten just yet, but seems something you might know a few things about. [[User talk:Ceoil|<span style="color:#006633">Ceoil</span>]] ([[User talk:Ceoil|talk]]) 03:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
*::::While I do live in the area, and find these objects interesting (delighful?) I don't think I have anything to contribute per se, but of course I'll be happy to copyedit. I still remember, after many, many years, finding one such inscription:
*:::::<del>I once did stand</del> <ins>Time was I stood</ins> as thou dost now / and viewed y<sup>e</sup> dead as thou dost me. / Ere long you lie so low as I / and others stand and gaze at thee.
*::::I wish I could remember where because a photo would be great for the article. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:07, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
::::::Its incredible how bitter some of them are. But yeah, not delighted with the photo offerings there atm. Would have been in CT this x-mass, but plague. Plan to revisit southern Maine maybe this summer, all going well, so might take some pictures. A stone that stands out, from first visit to Maine c 2013 was an 1780s? headstone that read, basically, "ye all laughed at me when I was alive, but then ye all died much younger than me, and look at me now, and the size of my fucking tomb." [[User talk:Ceoil|<span style="color:#006633">Ceoil</span>]] ([[User talk:Ceoil|talk]]) 04:41, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
*:::::{{tps}} [https://archive.org/details/lexingtonepitaph00brow Lexington Epitaths A copy of epitaphs in the old burying-grounds of Lexington, Massachusetts], Brown, Francis H. (Francis Henry), b. 1835; Lexington Historical Society (Mass.), 1905, page 39, Ebenezer Fiske, [https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/11123257/ebenezer-fiske findagrave.com], [https://www.lexingtonma.gov/information-visitors/pages/old-burying-ground Old Burying Ground].  [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]]) 🎄</small></small> 04:35, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
*::::::Thank you davidwr. [[User talk:Ceoil|<span style="color:#006633">Ceoil</span>]] ([[User talk:Ceoil|talk]]) 04:42, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
*:::::::Indeed, thanks. That is exactly the one; I even remember the stone. I was actually going to say Concord, because a friend in college was a docent at [[Minuteman National Park]] and gave us a tour. That tells me I've been carrying that around in my head for 42 years. The human mind is amazing. <small>But I still can't remember where I put my glasses.</small> [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

== H-index ==

Good morning, and Happy New Year!!  Quick question - what is a respectable Google Scholar h-index relative to notability? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 13:58, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
::<small>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUQpoyfbWJ0 In Hartford, Hereford, and Hampshire, h-indices hardly ever happen]./</small> I'm not really the right person to ask, but see [[WP:Notability_(academics)#Citation_metrics]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:42, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
:Atsme, I believe in part it depends on the field. Researchers in some fields have much higher h-indexes than in other fields.  [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 18:02, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
::True, but the bottom line remains that h-index is, at best, of very limited use for AfD. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:54, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
:::{{tps}} Agree. See [[H-index#Comparing_results_across_fields_and_career_levels]]. There's no universal h-index that's acceptable – they vary very widely across fields. For humanities especially, reviews of publications and other [[WP:NPROF]] criteria are much more commonly used at AfD to establish notability than h-index. [[User:AleatoryPonderings|AleatoryPonderings]] ([[User talk:AleatoryPonderings|'''???''']]) ([[Special:Contributions/AleatoryPonderings|'''!!!''']]) 20:27, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
::::Thank you to all for your input. I vaguely recalled former h-index discussions which have remained dormant in my memory (what's left of it) for some of the reasons I've read above; i.e., qualifying factors. Worse yet, I can still feel the effects of the fireworks, and the after-ring is louder than my tinnitus. 🧨🎆🎇 It has nothing to do with the celebratory liquid that flowed past my lips last night - or was it this morning? 🍸🍹🥂🍾 That's my story and I'm sticking to it. 🤕 [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:53, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

== Astounding ==

I thought I might alert you to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Great_conjunction&diff=997711211&oldid=997594221 this]. It's not a particularly exciting case, but maybe you'd find it more funny. Cheers, [[User:Ovinus|Ovinus]] ([[User talk:Ovinus|talk]]) 21:34, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
::Just don't stare at it for too long, lest one get conjunctivitis. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:48, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
:::What's wrong with you? Conjunctivitis is when you write a long sentence and it goes on and on and you use ''and'' and/or ''or'' a lot. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
::::There's nothing wrong and/or not right or not and right and/or write as well as wrong and/or not right or not and right and/or write in the conjunctive or if it were [[Stairway to Heaven|Led Zeppelin]] the way to stare at the conjunction while nonetheless a lot and see also [[Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu]]. And you can quote me on that. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:18, 2 January 2021 (UTC) 
:I always welcome [[WP:ASTONISHME]] contributions, but this case seems borderline on the {{tq|reader likely already knows}} score. At least I think it's borderline. Not sure. I guess definitely borderline. Maybe. But anyway, I think we can avoid that question once we realize that [[WP:ELEVAR]] is also in play{{snd}}saying {{tq|the planets}}, when we could just name them, needlessly makes the reader jump through a little hoop. Take a look at what I did. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
::Fair point, and I like what you did! Cheers, [[User:Ovinus|Ovinus]] ([[User talk:Ovinus|talk]]) 08:55, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
:::{{U|Ovinus}}, current events divert me, but if I don't get back to Talk:PGage by, say, two weeks into the Biden administration, please ping me again. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:05, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
::::Current events divert me too... looks like 2020's devilish spirit persists. I'll remind you appropriately. [[User:Ovinus|Ovinus]] ([[User talk:Ovinus|talk]]) 08:03, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

== Your recent edit ==

[[File:Lined sole.jpg|thumb|upright=.8|Oh, sole o' me-o. Oh, sole o' me --DFO<p>DFO, stop floundering around. --Tryptosoul]] You're welcome --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 09:22, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
:How dare you make jokes when the news is so serious! For those not paying attention, DFO refers to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=999037500]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 10:57, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
::And all this time I've been using a clothes dryer. [[:File:Sirius A and B Hubble photo.jpg|Seriously, ]]making jokes gives me a break from pontificating elsewhere. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 17:05, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

== File:FBI grid of suspects wanted in 2010 US Capitol attack.jpg listed for discussion ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] A file that you uploaded or altered, [[:File:FBI grid of suspects wanted in 2010 US Capitol attack.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Files for discussion]]. Please see the [[Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2021 January 8#File:FBI grid of suspects wanted in 2010 US Capitol attack.jpg|'''discussion''']] to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> [[User:BeŻet|BeŻet]] ([[User talk:BeŻet|talk]]) 14:38, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
::Shouldn't it be 2021 . . .? --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 17:09, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
:::Time machine [https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4627767]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:16, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
::::{{tps}} A time-travel convention?  [[2005|When]] can I buy tickets?  Are we taking the [[DeLorean Motor Company|Delorian]] or the [[Back to the Future Part III|train]]?  {{smiley}} [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]])</small></small> 20:57, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::I looked at the image out of curiosity, and if I were to !vote on it, which I won't, I'd say delete purely on grounds of extreme ugliness. If I were discussing people in a serious setting, I would never judge them based on what they look like, but for the purpose of my comment here, ewwww!, talk about human garbage! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:18, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

== Cage, Gage, Shiiiit! ==
[[File:Fischbroetchen 01 (fcm).jpg|thumb|When I start making jokes, I can really get on a roll! --Tryptofish<br>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rNSEj8SaU0 ... nice!!] --Sandwichmaker123]]
I don't know if you have access to Netflix, but they have a new comedy series hosted by historian [[Nicolas Cage]], called ''The History of Swear Words''. Episode 2, examining the topic of "Shit", includes a segment about Phineas Gage. I think it's not very accurate, but... --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:18, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
:[[Henry Molaison|H.M.]], eat your heart out. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:32, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
:Historian Nicholas Cage? Stealing the Declaration of Independence and discovering a secret message on the back from the Illuminati does not make one a historian.  [[User:Mgasparin|Mgasparin]] ([[User talk:Mgasparin|talk]]) 00:46, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
::::Well, I meant it as a joke, but it appears that my skills in that regard don't amount to much online. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:37, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::<small>Well for what it's worth, I think it's funny ''now'', but when I first read your comment above (without clicking on the link), I just assumed that there must actually must be a historian with the same name. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 22:30, 11 January 2021 (UTC) </small>
::Nicolas Cage ... Phineas Gage. [https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F52%2F65%2F63%2F526563739a573eaf66f1b30c64e4032d.gif&hash=7eb06b629747b25f9b41535fb3da0469 ''MORE THAN A COINCIDENCE???''] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:50, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

== The Dragonslayer Barnstar ==

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[File:AUT Pitten COA.jpg|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Dragonslayer Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I am pleased to award this barnstar to you in recognition of your glorious dragonslaying efforts. Although I actually constructed this for you years ago, I didn't award it to you at the time because I felt that it may not have been appropriate. But, in [[President Trump|a world gone mad]], I ultimately decided to follow [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgA6LBz7biM the advice of the eminent scientist E. Lathrop Brown]. Please consider this a testimonial in appreciation of your commitment to bring a bit of light and laughter to this dreary place. [[User:Mandarax|<span style="color:green">M<small>AN</small>d<small>ARAX</small></span>]]&nbsp;<span style="color:blue">•</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Mandarax|<span style="color:#999900"><small>XAЯA</small>b<small>ИA</small>M</span>]] 01:43, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[File:WikiDefender Barnstar.png|80px]]
|}
:{{tps}} As long as he's just slaying dragons and not [[User:Bishzilla|fire-breathing lizards]] we are okay.  If you do, 'zilla may sic a [[User:Bishapod|sushi]] on you.  [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]])</small></small> 02:06, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
::Some people think it's spelled ''sick'' so maybe you should write ''sic{{sic}}''. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:14, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
==Nice ...==
...[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:EEng&diff=999749345&oldid=999550172 quote]. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 22:36, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

== "Do not laugh" ==

If you want to make someone not not laugh, say [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:EEng&curid=52300042&diff=1000025106&oldid=999749345 do not laugh].  I didn't not laugh, but I did [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Los_Angeles_fetus_disposal_scandal&diff=1000086394&oldid=996202315 revert] the change - it is ''possible'' that the editor dug up the old newspaper article and expanded the section using it, but given the context, I am suspicious.  [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]])</small></small> 14:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
:How the guinch stole Christmas? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:51, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

== Early days ==

A bit of humor about [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWLDQeVK16A?t=1870 encyclopedias]. 😂 [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 16:14, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
:Um, can you cue us up to the relevant bit? Meanwhile, here's some other humor about encyclopedias [https://vimeo.com/38846249#t=59s]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:19, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

== I no longer know how to speak English ==

I was about to actually revert you (ha!) because "an unable president" has got to be the worst of all worlds, and I was going to say in the edit summary that "unable" is an adverb not an adjective. But I looked it up, and unable is listed as an adjective, apparently in every dictionary, although some note "not before noun". This is blowing my mind. I thought "unable" always modified a verb, or acted as a "helping" verb, almost always accompanied by the preposition "to", and almost always modifying the verb "to be" (is unable to, was unable to, has been unable to...). I thought that's what an adverb was. But turns out it's an adjective, even though it never modifies a noun (The unable car? The unable tree? The unable president?). Help me. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Levivich|harass]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contribs/Levivich|hound]]</sub> 22:00, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
:I'd like to help you, but I'm unable to. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:12, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
:[[Useless Humans|Unable]]? Are you sure you didn't mean [[Disabled veteran street vendors|disabled]]? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:18, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
:Since posting this I have now learned about [[predicative adjective]]s. Who could have predicatived it. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Levivich|harass]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contribs/Levivich|hound]]</sub> 22:26, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
::No prevarication. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:15, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
::I just figured it out: [[Covfefe|disable president]]! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:21, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

== This gem I found on [[Thailand|an article that I can't fathom actually had this on it]] ==

Happy New Year! I really feel like it belongs in an exhibit of some sort. I instantly thought of you.

{{image frame
 | caption = Field Marshal [[Plaek Phibunsongkhram]], the longest serving Prime Minister of Thailand
 |width=220
 | align = center
 | content =
   {{superimpose
    | base          = จอมพลป. พิบูลสงคราม ในปี 2484.jpg
    | base_width    = 220px
    | float         = Locator Dot2.gif
    | float_width   = 10px
    | float_caption = Phibun
    | x             = 92
    | y             = 60
   }}
}}

All the best, '''''<span style="font-family:Garamond;">[[User:Double Plus Ungood|Double Plus Ungood]] ([[User talk:Double Plus Ungood|talk]])</span>''''' 02:30, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
:{{U|Double Plus Ungood}}, you refer, of course, to the fact that the compound adjective ''longest-serving'' is missing [[WP:ONEGOODGOOFDESERVESANOTHER|it's]] hyphen. Shocking. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:36, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
::No u. Ur a compound adjective, {{U|EEng}}     <span style="font-size:75%">I actually didn't even notice the mistake. wow.</span>  '''''<span style="font-family:Garamond;">[[User:Double Plus Ungood|Double Plus Ungood]] ([[User talk:Double Plus Ungood|talk]])</span>''''' 03:44, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
:::That photog should get a Pulitzer for snapping the shot just a split-second before the sniper pulled the trigger. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:54, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

== Your complaint ==

What exactly should I stop in [[History of photography]]? You seem to be complaining about a line I wrote when I edited an article years ago. I'm not sure which article I then used, but it was from an art historian who seemed qualified enough, and was also mentioned in another wikipedia article. It was apparently not good enough for you, so you removed some content I wrote, but apparently not all. I didn't care enough to put this back or to discuss it. Your whining about this only feels like an invitation to put this back in. Let's forget whatever I used as a ref then. Is this Taylor and Francis ref good enough for you: [https://doi.org/10.1080/00043389.1995.11761214]? I could also look up whatever books included this concept, but if you just intend to remove everything that doesn't agree with you, please let me know in advance.[[User:Joortje1|Joortje1]] ([[User talk:Joortje1|talk]]) 13:01, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
:The idea that the Shroud of Turin is some kind of photograph has been thoroughly debunked. Here's what an actual scientist -- an expert on the history of photography -- said about it [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03087298.1997.10443848]:
::{{tq|Such claimants tend to draw upon the wisdom of hindsight to project a distorted historical perspective, wherein their cases rest upon a particular concatenation of procedures which is exceedingly improbable; and their 'proofs' amount only to demonstrating (none too faithfully) that it was not totally impossible ... The assertion that photography was the secret production of an isolated artistic genius may offer a compelling drama to those eager for sensation, but it belittles the practice of science ...}}
:So yeah, unless you have multiple, ''expert'' sources for this outlandish claim, I'll keep removing it. (Hint: Workers who publish their work through vanity presses don't count as scientific experts.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:53, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
::{{tps}} But how about the famous [https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/bird-turd-jesus_n_2759963?ri18n=true&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9jb25zZW50LnlhaG9vLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJSG5h_HO-2ejRmZMYzAvXaT02uawJfs5Js0zZfAX5skZT_X5XrSEWinGVT7rE0F2HBcHppBtEyYZJdePe9kZAFHHr-PtKWlM73HOmJaGJbZtvPZrOv1YpWlP8Dljg15zZ4_kG7xJC8R-64urCwtjYvVtHC3LUh7Yt4p_CTgLjdD Turd of Brooklyn]?? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:59, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
::::What an insult to Brooklynites! He's from Queens. Unfortunately not Flushing. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 22:14, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::And hopefully on his way to [[Rikers Island|Rikers]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:23, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
:::Now, now, Martin, no need to call him a turd. He'll be out of office once Joe Biden gets sworn in tomorrow. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:36, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
::::Ah yes, what a [[Flushed Away|relief]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:49, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::If I may recycle something I learned at another editor's talk page, had the US been a monarchy, this could have been a [[Groom of the Stool|royal flush]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:02, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

==And now a word from the guy who just fell off the stool at the end of the bar==
{{quote box|1=
You guys hear the one about Trump and the sheep caught in a fence? Of course you didn't because you'd actually have to interact with "working-class" regular joes in a "personal" social situation somewhere "locker room humor" and "guy talk" are "permitted" and then you'd still have to "make friends" with MEN instead of hanging out with "males" and pretend to like them! 
BADABING! 

You males/females can surely take jokes as well as you make them, right? I'm sure you can and that means you're not liking me right now because your "jokes" are about as funny as one would expect from "jokesters" that don't even have the sack to TELL JOKES on a "talk page" despite being the "Untouchables" of the Wikipedia World. Or at least English Wikipedia, anyway. And in "talk space". And on the "largest" but yet "loneliest" talk page in the whole history of the "community". 

The last place anybody really "important" and  "powerful" around here will ever need much less want to be and therefore catch the little males trying to act like big men in their "locker room" where they share "jokes" via Wikimedia image files and hyperlinks to online social media like YouTube and pretend to like other "editors". Or at least other "socks".

And here you are still "joking" about an ex-president so stupid and crooked and vile and hateful and racist and everything else "intellectuals" and "academics" so "liberal" and "tolerant" and "mature" and "ethical" and "respectable" in THEIR personal lives and professional "careers" just can't STAND in a "politician" they HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO TAKE THEIR EYES AND EARS AND TYPING FINGER(S) (index only, I'm guessing) and their MINDS AND "MOUTHS" off DONALD JOHN TRUMP FOR 20-25% PERCENT OF THEIR WIKIPEDIA "TENURE". Oh yes. Are you "guys" ever glad HE'S out of the "public sector". I wonder how TWITTER'S "bottom line" is liking "Biden". You know him, right? Got any good jokes about Biden beating Trump who beat Hillary who beat...Bernie Sanders yet? Better get on the Biden Bandwagon. He's your BOY! 

Ah the delicious irony and no-jokes-necessary for the comedic timing and native humor of "intellectuals" and "academics" that a "generation" or two ago "grew up" (that just means got taller) and went off to "college" (and not a mile or a minute farther from Mommy and Daddy than absolutely necessary so they could still walk Junior to class the first day or at least "stop by" his dorm room...for the weekend) and plumb forgot to GO HOME pretending to hate  a northeast Democrat "globalist" billionaire limousine liberal "white nationalist" lifelong New Yorker big city boy that insists on "Donald" that mopped up the floor with Hillary by going straight-up SAUL ALINSKY on the "Clinton machine" 0for "Sleepy Joe" the Blue Dog of Delaware.

And having to act "happy" about it here in the "locker room" or just ignore the unintended consequences of that laughable "Democratic" primary "election" process (minus the "caucuses" where "consensus" creates the "final count") where "winner takes all" starts and WINNING A PRIMARY ELECTION "DEMOCRATICALLY" DOES NOT GET YOUR NAME ON THE GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT UNLESS YOU HAPPEN TO "WIN THE PRIMARY" EVEN IF YOU LOST "SEVERAL STATES" AND "ELECTED OFFICIALS" AND "ELECTION OFFICIALS" AND "JOURNALISTS" CAN'T FIND "EVIDENCE" OF "ELECTION FRAUD" ANYWHERE AS/AFTER MILLIONS OF "AMERICANS" HAD/HAVE THEIR PRIMARY VOTES "COUNTED" BUT NOT "COUNT" AT ALL UNLESS THEY VOTED "BIDEN" IN THE "PRIMARY". "DISENFRANCHISING" EVERY SINGLE NON-BIDEN PRIMARY VOTER AND ALL TO "PROTECT DEMOCRACY" FROM A LAME-DUCK LIBERAL AS THE DAY IS LONG "REALITY SHOW STAR" THAT'S A HUGE THREAT TO???? WHO EXACTLY BESIDES AN IRANIAN "GENERAL" OFF THE RESERVATION TRYING TO CONDUCT A "COUP" AND  
MILITARY "INSURRECTION" IN "WMD-FREE" IRAQ DID "TRUMP" POSE AN "EXISTENTIAL THREAT" TO AS PRESIDENT AGAIN?

I'm sorry. I got serious during "happy hour" and started "yelling" posting in "all caps" and we all
know where and when that sort of communication stared being described as "offensive" and even "hate speech". 

I wonder if "young people" on college campuses see the "irony" in being "taught" that all caps on a screen where the "hate speech" gets erased every time an "app" is closed is YELLING and that YELLING is BULLYING and BULLYING is VIOLENCE while actually yelling and screaming inches from and straight into a stranger's face "on the street" without knowing a thing about him or her except that he or she is facing them and therefore MUST be on the "other side" is just "free speech" and "peaceful protest" and "civil unrest". 

Got any mpegs or jpegs or pithy little witticisms or better yet some double entendres or personal anecdotes or "tongue in cheek" references to historical events "analogous" to something you'd "like" to see happen to "Trump" or maybe "the right" as a whole? 

Or are you saving those for "Harris"? 

I sure hope you folks do all your Wikipedia "volunteer work" on your own time, internet-enabled devices and internet access and have the receipts in your names - in the real world names - to prove it and don't live in "public housing" and never, ever take your paid job "work" home with you or your "charity" home "work" to your "workplace(s)" with you. Cause I got a feeling your "jokes" get much worse and and a lot more "graphic" and the "images" don't exist online or at least on the "light web" to make them "sight gags" and I don't think you have any of the necessary resources to "Hillary" your way out of public records requests that won't and can't be made so that records requested are "responsive" unless the  lparty "requesting" them knows knows what is there to "respond" so the right "request" is made. 

Ever heard of "Jeopardy"? Ever wonder why anyone would name a "quiz show" that forces the contestant to do all the talking "under duress" would be called
"Jeopardy" and have most "duress" and the highest "paydays" - potentially - by far? And a 50/50 "chance" of "losing it all" on the final question "bonus round" going in as the "leader"? 

Probably because they had experience with subpoenas, grand juries, discovery, the "hot seat" etc. And "personal communications" on "public property" including devices without "paper trails" that still produce "public records". And the "documentation" that they are "work-related". 

Remember old Sleepy Joe xoesn't seem to have much of a sense of humor, too. 

<!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Yuckslur|Yuckslur]] ([[User talk:Yuckslur#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Yuckslur|contribs]]) 14:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
}}
{{clear}}

== Biden - the oldest first-term U.S. president ==

If you think the fact that Biden is the oldest president in US history is "idiocy" and "trivia", why don't you remove the same fact from the article about Donald Trump? I think consistency should be one of our goals here. [[User:Felix558|Felix558]] ([[User talk:Felix558|talk]]) 03:39, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
:{{U|Felix558}}, it belongs in the article somewhere (and without looking, I'm confident it's there); the idiocy consists in thinking it belongs in the already-very-overburdened lead. I encourage you to get it removed from the lead of the Trump article as well. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:47, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
::{{U|EEng#s}} While you are obviously entitled to discuss this matter, you are not entitled to make unilateral changed, especially when you see that most users disagree with you. You seem to be in the minority and most users think that the media coverage and discussion about him  being the oldest is such that it merits inclusion. Please discuss before you unilaterally remove it again. I not, I will have to report you to the edit-warring page[[User:Eccekevin|Eccekevin]] ([[User talk:Eccekevin|talk]]) 20:05, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
:::{{U|Eccekevin}}, report away. The longstanding lead (at least back to late November [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=991233249] -- I didn't check further than that) does not include this, and you're attempting to force it in because you misunderstand the nature of the Wikipedia consensus process. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:32, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
::::What does it matter what the lede was in November? He's only been president since yesterday.[[User:Eccekevin|Eccekevin]] ([[User talk:Eccekevin|talk]]) 20:35, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::He was on track to the be the oldest president since the moment he was elected; the fact that he took office yesterday doesn't make this suddenly some new and amazing fact no one thought of before. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:48, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::: 'on track' means nothing. Yesterday, he became the oldest sitting president in the 230 year history of the United States. Clearly, most users think it deserves a mention, especially given the media and online overage around his age (as a reminder, Wikipedia is based on sources, not opinions).[[User:Eccekevin|Eccekevin]] ([[User talk:Eccekevin|talk]]) 21:21, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::::Consensus is about reasons, not headcounts. And as demonstrated at the article talk, if we used a count of sources as the criterion then we'd be putting the rescue dogs in the lead as well. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:14, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
::::::::<small>Wait, the rescue dogs aren't in the lead? OMG, he broke his foot on one of them! Possibly while naked! Clearly that's lead territory. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 00:53, 22 January 2021 (UTC)</small> [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 00:53, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::<small>In fact, in many jurisdictions dogs are ''required'' to be on the lead. While you're here, V, you might pop over and have a talk with Eccekevin about BRD. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:02, 22 January 2021 (UTC) P.S. And don't think I forgot about you-know-what. Right now I'm working on [[User:Levivich/Seussipedia]]</small>
*FWIW, Biden is getting older, while ya'll argue here & at the Biden page. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 01:09, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
*:Well, we're ''all'' getting older. As for arguing, I'm still waiting for any actual arguments over on the talk page. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:12, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
::The fact that he is the oldest has specifically made headlines across national and international publications is an excellent reason.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Peter |first1=Josh |title=Joe Biden will become the oldest president in American history, a title previously held by Ronald Reagan |url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/05/oldest-president-joe-biden/6181672002/ |website=USA TODAY |access-date=21 January 2021}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |title=Happy birthday, Joe: 78-year-old Biden will be oldest US president to enter office |url=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/20/joe-biden-birthday-78-oldest-president |website=the Guardian |access-date=21 January 2021 |language=en |date=20 November 2020}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |title=Birthday time: Biden turns 78, will be oldest U.S. president |url=https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-health-ronald-reagan-coronavirus-pandemic-b43ea0d0049ae2cd72aead6e1816f6d5 |website=AP NEWS |date=20 November 2020}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Zak |first1=Dan |title=Joe Biden, 78, will lead an American gerontocracy |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/joe-biden-age-oldest-president/2021/01/12/91353560-49fe-11eb-839a-cf4ba7b7c48c_story.html |website=Washington Post |access-date=21 January 2021}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Diaz |first1=Johnny |title=Biden Is the Oldest President to Take the Oath |url=https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/us/politics/joe-biden-age-oldest-presidents.html |website=The New York Times |access-date=21 January 2021 |date=18 January 2021}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |title=Biden to Become Oldest President Ever at Inauguration |url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-19/biden-to-become-oldest-president-ever-at-inauguration-graphic |website=Bloomberg.com |access-date=21 January 2021 |language=en |date=19 January 2021}}</ref>[[User:Eccekevin|Eccekevin]] ([[User talk:Eccekevin|talk]]) 01:28, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:::Same for Biden's dogs [https://www.google.com/search?q=biden+dogs&tbm=nws]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:50, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
::::That is a false parallelism. People.com, CNN, and Countryliving(UK) are not really the same standard as all the national and international newspapers listed above. Please find a better argument.[[User:Eccekevin|Eccekevin]] ([[User talk:Eccekevin|talk]]) 02:54, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::Somehow you missed [https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-bidens-dogs-shepherd-in-new-era-of-presidential-pets-at-the-white-house-11611160275 WSJ], [https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-biden-first-dogs-idINKBN29P07V Reuters], [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/indoguration-day-nears-major-biden-n1254299 NBC News], [https://www.npr.org/2021/01/13/956096928/bidens-german-shepherd-to-be-celebrated-with-indoguration-hosted-by-animal-shelt NPR], [https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2020/12/24/biden-dogs-star-in-christmas-video-trumps-star-in-theirs/4043571001/ USA Today], and [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-dog-major-indoguration-white-houses-first-rescue-pup/ CBS News] -- and those are just from the first two pages of results. Any more objections? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:07, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
::::::Those are in the 'Entertainment'. 'Celebrities' and "Animals' sections, not politics. Very different tone and importance. Not all sources are equal. But if you want to argue for its inclusion, don't let me step in your way. That is not what this discussion is about, this seems like whataboutism. [[User:Eccekevin|Eccekevin]] ([[User talk:Eccekevin|talk]]) 03:42, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:::::::The sources are reliable, which is what matters, and you've got a couple of "Style" section links in there yourself.  And you misunderstand [[WP:WHATABOUT]]ism. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:57, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

*In the midst of this? I just discovered that [[Canada|my country]]'s governor general has resigned. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 04:27, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
*:My deepest condolences, {{U|GoodDay}}. But while you're here... should the lead of her article say she's the oldest governor general ever? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:33, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
:::In Payette's case, the ''"crankiest governor general ever"''. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 04:39, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
*::So in what passes for a constitutional crisis in Canada, Richard Wagner gets to stand in as the person who does nothing until a proper replacement can be found? I'm jealous. If only US politics could be so boring. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 04:35, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
::::Canadian media tries to make it sound like a constitutional crisis, but it's quite a non-event within Canada. I in favour of the abolishing of the office. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 04:39, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Mittens ==
[[File:Mother Goose riding.jpg|thumb|150px|The opening verse of "[[Joe Biden|Old Mother Biden]] and the [[Bernie Sanders|Golden Sanders]]", from an 2021 inauguration chapbook]]
So ... have we got enough sources to write [[Bernie Sanders mittens photograph]] yet? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 17:26, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

:The [[Joe Biden|cat]] and [[Bernie Sanders|his kittens]]
:They put on their mittens,
:To eat a [[Inauguration of Joe Biden|POTUS pie]].
:The [[Three Little Kittens|poor little kittens]]
:They lost their mittens,
:And then they began to cry.
:: [[Eliza Lee Cabot Follen|Mother Goose123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:38, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

:::And lo, [[Template:Did you know nominations/Bernie Sanders mittens meme|it was DYKed]].... [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 12:26, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

== [[Mile high club|Million Low Club]] ==

Could I be the first to congratulate you on creating a Talk page that's '''over a million bytes long'''? To be precise... 1,000,290 bytes!! Wow. [[Working in the Coal Mine|Nice work]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:21, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

:I'll save my praise until the page reaches 1&nbsp;MB (1,048,576 bytes). Mixing decimal and binary units is highly distasteful. You end up having to use words like "mebibyte". <small>''*shudders*''</small> <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 01:28, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

== You got Something ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" |{{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Signpost Barnstar icon.png|100px]]|[[File:Signpost Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The ''Signpost'' Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | for [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2021-01-31/Humour|Dr. Seuss's Guide to Wikipedia]]. [[User:Smallbones|Smallbones]]<sub>([[User talk:Smallbones|<span style="color: #cc6600;">smalltalk</span>]])</sub> 18:24, 4 February 2021 (UTC) ]])</sub> 18:14, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
|}

== Uncivil comments ==

I am sad to write that today when asked by an uninvolved editor to review this dispute, I unfortunately noticed some problematic comments on [[Talk:Joe_Biden/Archive_14#Infobox]].

:{{tq|So, do you actually believe that it's not possible to find a published reliable source for Biden's chairmanships and so on, or are you just being difficult? EEng 13:03, 14 January 2021 (UTC)}}

In attacking the personal motivation of another editor, this does not [[WP:AGF|assume good faith]], which is required of all editors. Surtsicna challenged unreferenced material in the infobox, and the sources provided by other editors in the discussion did not verify the challenged material. [[WP:UNSOURCED]] says that the burden of adding sources is on editors who want material added. Surtsicna has no obligation to lift a finger to find a reliable source, and whether they believe that task will be easy, hard, or impossible, the requirement for editors who want the material added to provide sources remains. These dates are not obvious or well-known facts, and this type of information often needs correcting by fact checkers, so that challenge is completely legitimate, even if that editor would also prefer the material be removed for other reasons. The above response only serves to antagonize the other editor, making them less likely to contribute to the project in the future, less likely to be agreeable to your suggestions, less likely to help you, more likely to respond in an negative and unproductive way, less able to think clearly, and more likely to prolong your dispute. More productive responses in this context include:
* Providing the requested sources, which you actually did the next day after another go-round.
* Agreeing that the challenged material should be removed.
* Asking for more time to find the requested sources; Surtsicna was willing to leave the material in place with citation-needed tags in the meantime.
* Proposing that different text be added.
* Saying nothing, which would be far better than responding with a personal attack.

:{{tq|To be blunt, seriously believing that there aren't complete and definitive sources for the chairmanships of Senate committees brings into serious question your competence to edit this article. Seriously. Did you even try? [35] EEng 05:15, 15 January 2021 (UTC)}}

Given that the sources provided by another editor failed to verify the challenged material, a reasonable inference is that it might be hard to find such a source. (Though that did not turn out to be true in the end.) As I pointed out earlier, Surtsicna had no obligation to try to find such a source, and it is unfair to conclude that failing to identify the requested sources when that burden does not fall on this editor is a demonstration that this editor lacks the skill to do so. There isn't even a requirement that editors who do the useful work of challenging unreferenced, unobvious material have any familiarity with sources relevant to a topic. Attacking the competence or intelligence of another editor in this way is unacceptable. Productive responses to errors by other editors include fixing partial errors, reverting large errors, politely pointing out mistakes on talk pages, and allowing that even the most brilliant people make mistakes sometimes. If an editor is chronically and grossly incompetent, eventually it will be worth discussing that as a problem, but not until these more productive responses have not worked, and not in an uncivil fashion. Verbal abuse is not a productive way to notify volunteers about their mistakes, and verbally abusing a volunteer over a mistake they haven't even made, which is what happened here, is even more demoralizing.

:{{tq|I'm considering pinning a little box to the top of this page: "It has been X hours since Surtsicna falsely claimed that everything in an infobox needs to be in the article as well." EEng 15:15, 23 January 2021 (UTC)}}

This is another unacceptable comment which is snarkily attacking another editor. Assuming good faith on the part of two editors who have completely opposite interpretations of a guideline leads me to conclude that either one has made an honest error, the guideline is unclear, or there is some other complexity yet to be uncovered. A productive, AGF response might be to quote the part of the policy you are relying on, explain your logic, and ask the other editor if you are missing anything. Another AGF response might be to ask the other editor to quote the part of the policy they are relying on, or to clarify their reasoning if they have already quoted. In this case, if you had done either, I think you would have found that [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes]] has two sections which say different things about the disputed question. [[MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE]] says that infoboxes should ''not'' have any facts which are not in the text of the article, and [[WP:INFOBOXREF]] (which you quoted) encourages that but implies that there will also be some cases where editors ''do'' legitimately decide to include facts in the infobox but not the article. Instead of identifying this contradiction and bringing it to the attention of other editors for resolution, your response instead demoralized an editor who is being productive and trying to build consensus and improve the reader experience, whether or not you or I agree with that editor's suggestions.

(added) I should also note that one of your comments cites [[WP:CIR]], which specifically says in [[WP:CIRNOT]] not to label someone as incompetent, as this is a personal attack.

I hope that in the future instead of tearing into other editors, you can express disagreement in a more productive and civil manner. I hope that you will use the "assume good faith" guideline as a reason to stop and calmly consider the possible legitimate reasons for an editor's actions, including miscommunication and that you yourself might not have a complete picture. I usually find the latter is true for myself. You are clearly a smart person and like the rest of the community of volunteers I'm trying to keep motivated, have many valuable contributions yet to make. Thanks for reading, [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 07:13, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
*I have popcorn, will share. -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy''' <small>the grumpy dog </small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 07:21, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
*:Mmm... Salty. Thanks, Roxy. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 09:22, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
*::Think of your blood pressure. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:59, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
*Oh dear. All of those examples look '''relatively polite''' for EEng. Poor Surtsicna, must feel [[Shrinking Violet (album)|crushed]]? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 10:47, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
*{{U|Beland}}, I'm sad you wrote too. Mostly TLDR, but in passing:
**{{tq|I think you would have found that Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes has two sections which say different things about the disputed question}}{{snd}}No, actually,I would not have found that, as you yourself discovered after posting here (see [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1004974095]), although you strangely omitted to return here to post the traditional ''Oops! My bad!'' Maybe next time you should more carefully consider that {{tq|you yourself might not have a complete picture}}.
**Surtsicna was told over and over and over and over and over, with links to the guideline and/or quoting it, that ''not'' everything in an infobox needs to be in the article. Nonetheless he or she stubbornly insisted on repeating that idea. And repeating it. And repeating it (in multiple threads, as I recall). AGF doesn't require us to close our eyes to what is obviously either a CIR failure or just plain willful blindness.
**My comments about the chairmanships weren't about whether sources were ''in the article'', but rather whether they exist at all. Surtsicna said {{tq|I do seriously believe it is ''not possible to find'' published reliable sources about all these people preceding or succeeding Joe Biden in the given date ranges}}, and I said (yes) {{tq|To be blunt, seriously believing that there aren't complete and definitive sources for the chairmanships of Senate committees brings into serious question your competence to edit this article}}, because that's true. And, frankly, if ''you'' can't see how absurd it is to imagine that there aren't definitive sources for Senate chairmanships, then ''you'' aren't competent to be sticking your nose into this matter. Really.
**{{tq|specifically says in WP:CIRNOT not to label someone as incompetent}}{{snd}}No, it says it's {{tq|generally inadvisable}} to call a person incompetent. I applied my judgment. And look! It worked: [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1002255355]! Too bad S., like you, was unable to bring himself/herself to come out and say, "Oh, now I see. I guess you were right. Sorry I didn't read more carefully."
:Surticna's wasted a lot of editor time. You're on your way to doing the same.  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:59, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
:::<small>I had a [[Cosmetic Ingredient Review|"CIR failure"]] once. But it turned out I had just been [[Lipstick on a pig|pigging out on salty popcorn]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:27, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
::::Where in the world do you get this stuff???? 
:::::I find an [[The Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)|encyclopaedia]] always comes in handy. [[Encyclopedia Brown|Little Brown (Jug) 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 11:32, 6 February 2021 (UTC) </small>
<div style="font:bold 2em courier; color:#dd4444; position:absolute; left:10%; margin-top:3em; -webkit-transform:rotate(350deg); -moz-transform:rotate(350deg); -o-transform:rotate(350deg); transform:rotate(350deg);">Certified a load of old bollocks</div>
:You are correct that I misread [[MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE]]; perhaps Surtsicna and I made the same mistake. I didn't mention that here because I wanted to read your response first. As you can see, Bondegezou used a productive technique to resolve the disagreement over the interpretation of that section, by quoting the part that I had missed. This resulted in two improvements to the section; I clarified the sentence I had been relying on, and RexxS noticed that one of the examples was outdated and updated it. The suggestions I made above include conversational techniques that I hope would have helped you and Surtsicna resolve your disagreement more quickly, if you are concerned about not wasting time, and would have entirely avoided this one. Frankly, I'm more concerned about the editor time we are losing when editors are uncivil to each other and some of them stop editing entirely. My concern is not about who is right or wrong, as you were clearly correct in your interpretation of this guideline, for example. I am much more concerned with your language and your treatment of other editors. In response to this complaint, you might have said nothing, or you might have defended the correctness of your position without implicating matters of civility, or you might have apologized for your words and promised to be more civil in the future. Instead, you have demonstrated that you aren't interested in adopting more productive conflict-resolution techniques, especially when you defended your behavior as having been effective, and labelled yet another editor as incompetent. Given your continued incivility, and because you have been blocked for disruptive editing before, you are blocked from editing for one week. Please reconsider your commitment to civil discourse. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 19:55, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
::That's the dumbest decision I've seen for a while. Shame on you, {{u|Beland}}. Feel free to block me too. I've had quite enough popcorn for the time being. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 21:13, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
:::'''Purely''' punitive.  Tsk.  Blocking user should be admonished. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] <small>([[User talk:The Rambling Man|Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!&#33;!&#33;]])</small> 21:23, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
::EEng, I've just advocated against this block at Beland's talk page and at AN. Now I'm going to say to you: please be nicer to people who are being dimwitted, as the person at the Biden talkpage was being. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:28, 7 February 2021 (UTC)


=== More blocks for your collection ===

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 15px;" | [[File:WTF-Blocks.png|thumb|200px|Stackable WTF blocks]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''You are, yet again, the recipient of a <sup>[[File:Cscr-featured.svg|20px]]</sup>WTF Block‼️⁉️'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Remember how much fun you had playing with blocks as a kid? Well, now that you're <s>mature</s> an adult,<br/> you can collect blocks with adult letters. They're not only stackable, they're reusable.<br/><br/>''I swar!! Can't I leave you alone even for a minute without you getting in trouble with the Wiki police!?''<br/><br/>
<center>Memories of our past[[File:Pin-oak-leaf-tp 0557.png|60px]] replaced by decades of, uhm... [[File:Gesto, David Černý(sochař), 21.10.2013, Praha (cropped).jpg|60px]] misunderstandings?</center><br/>
<small>{{P|grin}} [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 03:09, 8 February 2021 (UTC)</small>
<small>''Disclaimer: Intended as humor.  Pure pun-ishment.'' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Atsme/Banners]</small>
|}

:"Blocked Talk Page?? Easy.... just call [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_lmhp7YsTc DynoProd]!" [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 12:25, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

===Notice of noticeboard discussion===
[[File:Information icon4.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.&nbsp;The thread is [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Intent to unblock|Intent to unblock]]. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:AN-notice--> [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 21:16, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
=== Unblocked ===

Hi EEng, I’ve unblocked you per the thread linked above. Hope you have a good week ahead. [[User:TonyBallioni|TonyBallioni]] ([[User talk:TonyBallioni|talk]]) 22:17, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

*Common sense prevails. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 22:29, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
*Shucks. Anyone need any of this [[Popcorn maker|8 pounds of popcorn]] I got [[Super Bowl LV|leftover]]?? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfdLh0MHqKw Enjoy, pop-(corn)-pickers!!]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 23:49, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
*For the record the AN discussion is here [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1006128797#Intent_to_unblock]. The closing summary reads, in part: {{tq|EEng has been unblocked by overwhelming consensus, {{U|Beland}} is reminded of the dangers and standards of adminship as well as the nature of blocks}}. Whether that admonishment sank in is open to question, though [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1005908508#Block_of_EEng]. The alert reader, on encountering an admin who deletes uncomplimentary messages without archiving them [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1005500985], might wonder what else is being hidden. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
*: Yes, I do accept the unblock and the reason for it. I have always deleted all my incoming user talk page messages without archiving when I'm done with them, except for the compliments. So you might say everything is being hidden, or nothing...as it used to say there, if anyone cares they can look in the page history. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 02:05, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
*::The question isn't whether you {{tq|accept the unblock and the reason for it}}; you don't have a choice since the score at AN was ''Endorse block{{snd}}0, Overturn egregiously wrongheaded block and severely trout the admin who imposed it{{snd}}20''. The question is whether you'll be able to adhere to the {{tq|standards of adminship as well as the nature of blocks}} in the future; time will tell, I guess.{{pb}}As for not archiving your talk page, well, {{tq|I have always deleted all my incoming user talk page messages without archiving when I'm done with them, ''except for the compliments''}} (italcis added) is nothing like {{tq|everything is being hidden, or nothing}}{{snd}}rather, it's ''I feature the good stuff and hide the bad''. One of the reasons I delay archiving is to dramatize that I fear no scrutiny. You are, of course, joking in your implication that {{tq|look in the page history}} is any kind of effective way to find and review past threads. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:58, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
*:::Yes, and I also "hide" the neutral and the boring. The compliments are mostly for myself, to keep motivated when I'm having a bad day. I was inspired by the famous line, "Keep your old love letters, throw away your old bank statements", which used to be quoted on my user talk page. Back in the day before pings, I would actually move conversations to the talk page of the other person so all of it would be in one place and they would get notified about my reply. That would leave nothing on my talk page to archive in some cases. I guess looking through the page history is more annoying than reading archives, but when I started doing it I didn't imagine anyone would actually care about old messages about article updates and bots and Wikiprojects and editing mistakes. If you're saying distant-past-me was planning ahead so if someone said something bad about my rarely used admin powers in ten years I'd be able to delete it and make it harder to find, OK. If I'm making myself look better by doing this, then well, great. Who doesn't like to look better. It sounds like you're angry at me, and I can see why you would want to try to trash the reputation of someone who makes you angry. I applaud your embrace of transparency, though personally I find this page unmanageably long.
*:::You previously wrote: {{tq|even when the truth is rubbed in your face over and over, and even after a score of editors vociferously denounce your judgment as completely out of calibration, you're either incapable of absorbing it or just can't bring yourself to acknowledge it.}} You seem to have been expecting a personal message from me saying "oh hey, I messed up, sorry" or something. It's not something that's really required to resolve this case; the block has been reversed and admonishment has been delivered to everyone that needed one, including me.  I do see why the overturn was in line with Wikipedia policy, though there also seems to be consensus that the existing system has not resulted in a culture of satisfactory civility. Not saying my solution is better. Though I've never seen the district judge apologize to a defendant when an appeals court overturns a sentence, sure, here in a less formal setting someone might do that anyway just to be friendly. With due respect, in this case, your past hurtful insults and continued insulting tone make it extremely difficult to feel a desire to be friendly and go out of my way to say nice things, though I remain committed to being civil and not unfriendly. Though I don't expect much more than to be insulted for having said even this, I bring it up in the hope that in the future it will help you more accurately understand interactions with other people, and as an example of how gratuitous incivility has negative consequences. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) 04:19, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
*::::Do you ''never'' post anything under 1000 words?
*::::*{{tq|If you're saying distant-past-me was planning ahead so if someone said something bad about my rarely used admin powers in ten years I'd be able to delete it and make it harder to find, OK}}{{snd}}No, I'm saying today-you doesn't care about transparency, whether in your administrative work or general editing.
*::::*{{tq|admonishment has been delivered to everyone that needed one, including me}}{{snd}}Actually ''only'' you.
*::::*{{tq|It sounds like you're angry at me}}{{snd}}Not in the slightest. You've provided amusement to the masses while contributing a beautiful illustration of my longstanding thesis that 97% of admins do important work in return for little recognition, while the other 3% are simply bossy, preachy, hypocritical, and/or just plain out of their depth. It is interesting to note how densely my block log (which{{snd}}I guess I need to point out since you seem unable to read a block log{{snd}}consists largely of overturned blocks and a joke block) is studded with the names of admins who are no longer admins{{snd}}something you might want to think about.
*::::*{{tq|You seem to have been expecting a personal message from me saying "oh hey, I messed up, sorry" or something. It's not something that's really required to resolve this case}}{{snd}}And therein lies the difference between us. When someone else is screwing up, I try to tell them so in terms matched to where they're coming from, the history of their receptiveness, and so on; and when ''I'' screw up{{snd}}if I've caused trouble or inconvenience{{snd}}I apologize. ''That's'' civility far more than your prissy parsing of posts for forbidden words and phrases. You, on the other hand, are so committed to your empty, formal civility that you can't even bring yourself to hurt your own feelings by acknowledging your mistakes.
*::::*{{tq|help you more accurately understand interactions with other people}}{{snd}}I require no advice from you on how to win friends and influence people. You stick to gnoming character codes and let us adults police our own interactions.
*::::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:12, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
*:::::<small>{{tq|how to win friends and influence people}} A reference to [[How to win friends and influence people|the book]]? [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] ([[User talk:ProcrastinatingReader|talk]]) 17:46, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
*::::::Nah. Another [[How to Make Enemies and Irritate People|work of art]], surely. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC) </small>

==Brainstorming for a contemplated TV ad (contributions gratefully accepted -- feel free to edit directly)==
::''Inspired by [https://www.ispot.tv/ad/w_Fl/hdis-the-struggle-is-over]. With enough material an amusing essay may be possible.''
<del>"The blather control aisle{{snd}}so embarrassing! If you're a Wikipedia editor struggling with incompetence issues, now there's a better way. We home-deliver blather control products directly to you in plain, unmarked boxes{{nbsp}}..."</del>
:...directly to your user page in plain unmarked mboxes... [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]])</small></small> 04:39, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
::That's the spirit! But ''mboxes'' might be too hackerish. Maybe ''plain unmarked userboxes''? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:16, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
"The blather control aisle{{snd}}so embarrassing! If you're a Wikipedia editor struggling with incompetence issues, now there's a better way. We home-deliver blather control products directly to you in plain, unmarked userboxes. Or, if other editors complain you're full of hot air ..."
:::See also the discussion of "piss off", [[#Tryptofish throws a temper tantrum|below]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:55, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
:"You are not alone. This problem has a name: [[WikiLeaks]]. Minor leaks can be controlled by using appropriate [[WP:NCR|garments]], and [[Help:Table#Cell content indenting and padding|padding]] can be added as needed. Normally, this kind of output is directed to the [[WP:CESSPIT]]. However, some [[WP:DICK]]S have leaked all over the internet, causing the internet to blow up. Should this happen to you, please call for a [[WP:MOP]]." --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:29, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
:"But now there's help: [[WP:Authority control]]." --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:39, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
*<rubs hands gleefully> Now we're really getting somewhere. And to think I worried this might just poop out. Perhaps we're moving in the direction of something like [[User:EEng#Computer porn]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:08, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
*:Sorry, I just couldn't control myself. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:11, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
*::Well, just remember: [[Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*:::At this point, I'll admit to feeling a bit drained. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 16:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*::::Although... that probably depends. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*In breaking news, [[WP:Wikipedia is being flooded]]. Further information at [[WP:WASTE]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:25, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

==I joined the 300+ club and all I got was...==
{{external media
| float  = right
| video1 = [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-inCB3POqs Will repeat!]
}}
[[File:2persian_gate_wall.JPG|thumb|right|299px|Vroom-vroom! [[User:El_C|El_C]] 21:50, 7 February 2021 (UTC)]]
Sorry, EEng, forgot a shout out back in August when I, myself, reached that milestone ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AEl_C&type=revision&diff=973679823&oldid=973644102 diff]). Felt like it was a bit of a pyrrhic victory (the [[Battle of Thermopylae|300 Spartans]], to be specific), but I know you're not one to be weighed by earthly things... Anyway, how about [[In Soviet Russia|I image macro you]], for once! [[User:El_C|El_C]] 21:50, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
:Ooh, usage of [[:Template:External media]] noted for further spammage! [[User:El_C|El_C]] 15:56, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
::In all sincerity, what's the 300+ club? I haven't got that many blocks ''yet''. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:29, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
::::I'm taking seriously the "in all sincerity" part, so just in case you were ''actually'' asking, he means the number of talk page sections. And if you actually knew that all along, never mind. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:44, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::The inquiry was sincere, and thanks to you I am now unriddled. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:04, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
::::::Ah, maybe someday, I'll be unriddled too. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:41, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, I do [[Fish Karma|hope so]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:23, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
:::That's okay, I can help make that happen for you! [[User:El_C|El_C]] 00:55, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
::::<small>Ahem. I think you'll find they were actually [[Epirus (ancient state)|Epirotes]] not [[Spartansburg, Pennsylvania|Spartans]], as such. [[Plutarch|Plutarchivans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:02, 9 February 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::::<small>Martin, you're a true classic! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:28, 9 February 2021 (UTC)</small>

== "Undesysoppables" ==

Having managed to [[WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/RHaworth|provide evidence that led to a desysop]], I'm not sure "undesyoppables" is really a thing. ''Of course'' I think the recent block was heavy-handed and ill advised, but it didn't last very long and was swiftly overturned. It's not like anyone's running around blocking "content creators" left, right and centre, is it? (Or is it?) [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 16:05, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

== Editing closed discussions ==

Hi there. I recently reverted one of your edits to that closed discussion at [[WP:AN]] and {{u|Levivich}} reverted me back, saying it was {{tq|not a rule}}. Would you mind moving that file to outside the archive box? It would be really appreciated, thanks! [[User:Sdrqaz|Sdrqaz]] ([[User talk:Sdrqaz|talk]]) 17:01, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
:No I won't, because the external media box can't perform its function except in the place I put it. What's the big deal? Leave it alone. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:24, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
::I must admit I found that (somewhat appropriate) 12-second clip quite hilarious. But let's face it EEng, that thread... [[Leonard McCoy|'''is worse than that, it's dead, Jim!''']] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:41, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
:::[[User_talk:EEng#I_joined_the_300+_club_and_all_I_got_was...|'''Will you two shut up! People are trying to sleep!''']] [[User:El_C|El_C]] 18:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
::::'''"Some of us have [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdQCPlAZjbY civility standards], you know!!!"''' [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:47, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

== Tryptofish throws a temper tantrum ==
[[File:Tiger shark, Hawaii Aii.jpg|thumb|left|upright|A group of new Wikipedia editors, hoisting me by my piscine petard. --[[Nereus|Tryptofish]]]]
You've been subjected to a certain amount of... whatever, over the past day or so. So I figured I'd tell you about something ridiculous that I encountered on-wiki today, in the hope that it will bring a smile to everyone here. (I'm not looking to give the guilty party a hard time. Just let it pass.) But (as {{u|Atsme}} will well remember), a little while back I created a fake "user warning" template that is based upon The Wikipedia Pissoff Award<sup>TM</sup>, which everyone can feast their eyes upon [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Silly_things/Template:Uw-pissoff4&oldid=1005641191 here]. Clearly this is very serious bizness.

So today, I made this revert: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ASilly_things%2FTemplate%3AUw-pissoff4&type=revision&diff=1005641191&oldid=1005632569]. What I reverted was an editor making it look like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Silly_things/Template:Uw-pissoff4&oldid=1005632569 this]. Note the "documentation" at the bottom. Which made it into a "real" user warning template. Which set off a bot to "subst:" it where it occurs.

I'm picturing some earnest editor seeing the "uw" part of it and deciding that it just absolutely had to be properly set up as a user warning, with level 1, level 2, and so on. Either that, or they out-smarted me, and hoisted me by my own fishy petard by duly following the instructions, and pissing me off! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:58, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Gesto, David Černý(sochař), 21.10.2013, Praha (cropped).jpg|thumb|upright 0.6|Martin, this is for you! --[[Diogenes|Tryptofish]]]]
:[https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/MjAxMy1iMTg5ODk4ODQ2NThjYzBh.png Brave]. [[Diogenes syndrome|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 23:06, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
*😂 [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 23:51, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
*I like that it had an ''|escalate_to='' parameter. The sequence should be piss off, bugger off, fuck off ... [[Fuck Off!|EEng]] 00:22, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Oh, I have lighthearted stuff to relate! An astrophysicist who's [[Talk:Richard V. E. Lovelace|fucked up pinging]] like ten times [[User talk:Marinaromanova55|in various places]], and it's killing me I can't say to her, "It's not rocket science." [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 02:29, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
:Well, you know [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I "it's not exactly brain surgery"] either, is it? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

== Tame assassination ==

Ben Franklin once wrote: {{tq2|What was the practice before this in cases where the chief Magistrate rendered himself obnoxious? Why recourse was had to assassination in wch. he was not only deprived of his life but of the opportunity of vindicating his character. It wd. be the best way therefore to provide in the Constitution for the regular punishment of the Executive when his misconduct should deserve it, and for his honorable acquittal when he should be unjustly accused.}} A Cornell Law professor [https://www.minnesotalawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Chafetz_MLR.pdf suggests]: {{tq2|Franklin, recognizing that presidents might sometimes “render [themselves] obnoxious,” recommended a formal, constitutional mechanism for bringing them to justice instead of what he saw as the inevitable alternative: assassination. Or, to put it differently, impeachment was an attempt to domesticate, to tame, assassination ... I suggest that, in the context of presidential impeachment, we accept Franklin’s provocative invitation—an invitation that scholars have thus far ignored—to view impeachable offenses as (what might otherwise be) ''assassinable'' offenses ... These heretofore unexplored connections suggest that assassinability may appropriately provide the substantive criteria for impeachability. But assassination as a means of executive removal has significant drawbacks. It is politically disruptive; it carries a high risk of irreversible error; and it is, of course, violent.}} Thought you'd find this amusing. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Levivich|harass]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contribs/Levivich|hound]]</sub> 20:28, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
*An eloquent reminder that justice does not consist in giving the guy what -- truth be told -- he richly deserves. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:52, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

== Help? ==

Hi. I have a question. I am having various issues with an editor, but the one I am writing you about is in particular this - he deleted my comment on an article talk page.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Christmas_Comes_But_Once_a_Year_(Mad_Men)&diff=1006824128&oldid=1006823061] Used Twinkle. No edit summary. I explained there was this was not proper. He just reverted that.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Christmas_Comes_But_Once_a_Year_(Mad_Men)&diff=prev&oldid=1006822690] I see you are an expert in this rule. What can I do? Thanks.--[[Special:Contributions/2603:7000:2143:8500:14B6:711A:E2C2:19A9|2603:7000:2143:8500:14B6:711A:E2C2:19A9]] ([[User talk:2603:7000:2143:8500:14B6:711A:E2C2:19A9|talk]]) 01:01, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
:I've restored your post and warned the user who removed it not to do that again. Let me know if there are other problems. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:05, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
::So kind of you. Much appreciated. This sort of thing is so frustrating - and on valentines day no less. [[Special:Contributions/2603:7000:2143:8500:11C4:EABB:5D65:42AE|2603:7000:2143:8500:11C4:EABB:5D65:42AE]] ([[User talk:2603:7000:2143:8500:11C4:EABB:5D65:42AE|talk]]) 06:13, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

== Was the north facing photo talk page closed to prevent people from hurting my feelings, in part? ==
Your comments on Cullen's talk page sounded kind, so I thought I might try to talk with you. It seems that Magnolia677 had been being ironic when he said he liked the idea. If so, I totally fell for it. I would like to talk with Cullen to ask him why he (if it was him)closed the discussion (I thought it was productive), but I'm not sure whether he would welcome that. What do you think? [[User:Arctic Gazelle|Arctic Gazelle]] ([[User talk:Arctic Gazelle|talk]]) 19:46, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
::{{U|User:Arctic Gazelle}}, sometimes enthusiastic new editors get into Wikipedia's "behind-the-scenes" areas before they have a good grounding in why a lot of things are done the way they are. (That's not to say that everything is the way it is for a good reason, but a lot of it is.) In this case, you're going against a very important principle which I, your humble correspondent, elucidated years ago at [[WP:NONEEDNORULE]]. We like to give editors who are working on a given article as much freedom as possible to fashion the article according to what they think will best serve the reader's understanding; to go against that that -- to make a rule saying that all X must be Y -- there needs to be a really good reason. You weren't understanding what other editors were telling you, and when that goes on for a while people begin to feel their time is being wasted, and then comments can turn harsh. It can be very disheartening to be on the receiving end of that, and and since you're a new editor I wanted to help avoid it. My advice is that you spend a year doing the everyday work that is Wikipedia's lifeblood: fixing errors, adding content, locating sources, participating in article talk-page discussions about directions to take the article. ''After that'' start looking around behind the scenes at guideline and policy pages. Good luck, and happy editing! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:40, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
:::I'm sorry if I am not as humorous as you would like in this post. I went to the Help Desk to ask where I should post my idea and one of the suggestions was to post it in MOS, which I did. Then someone suggested moving it to the MOS for images, and I authorized that. I did not authorize the change in the title, and that made my proposal look much more extreme and finalized than it had. I don't think I did anything bold, let alone wrong. I just followed the instructions I was given at the Help Desk.
:::I was perhaps helped by your remark about 'behind the scenes'. It seems like I was sent to something like a supreme court of Wikipedia. I read that article about 'no need, no rule' as well as several that it linked to. I learned a lot, and not just about Wikipedia, but also about why a supreme court might refuse to hear a case, which had previously puzzled me.
:::I finally got Magnolia677's pun, on the tenth reading or so. A paling is also a post. Clever. I find it all the more puzzling that someone that intelligent would fail to at least find my idea interesting.
:::Another thing I learned is what it must be like to get an unnecessarily harsh rejection letter from a publisher. [[User:Arctic Gazelle|Arctic Gazelle]] ([[User talk:Arctic Gazelle|talk]]) 00:12, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
::::"Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted." [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:30, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Dfo five lights.JPG|thumb|upright=.7|Lighting is crucial]]
:[[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Images#Facing north should be preferred]] is one of the best-illustrated threads of the year. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Levivich|harass]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contribs/Levivich|hound]]</sub> 20:21, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
::Of course it was me who closed that discussion, which is why it has my signature. The reason that I did so is that the chance of your proposal being accepted is zero, and it is a waste of time to keep discussing it, {{u|Arctic Gazelle}}. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 20:28, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
:::[[Stand (R.E.M. song)|As an amateur photographer, I feel the best orientation for a picture is the one with the most favorable lighting.]] Generally, this means with the sun at my back and always with the sun not blazing into my lens. Of the thousands of photos I've shot, less than a dozen indicate a direction in the name or comments. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 20:57, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
::::Was it a completely new idea? Have you seen the idea before? Has it been discussed and rejected before? [[User:Arctic Gazelle|Arctic Gazelle]] ([[User talk:Arctic Gazelle|talk]]) 21:05, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::Maybe seen before here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZmZzGxGpSs —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 21:25, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::: Yes, that's it. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 21:51, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::::[[File:SMirC-chuckle.svg|x20px|^_^]] Love it...but it makes wonder how you knew about that cartoon, David. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 16:11, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Maybe he was one of the 38 people who read [[WP:Wikipedia_Signpost/2021-01-31/Humour|Dr. Seuss's Guide to Wikipedia]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:22, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, I was hoping he'd admit it without any coaxing, which would provide a bit of ego stroking for those of you who worked so hard putting that presentation together. I mean, seriously...someone the caliber of David reading Dr. Seuss because of the work you & Levivich invested...well, it speaks volumes about your talent!! You deserve a stroke or two. (don't look a gift horse in the mouth). [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 20:39, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Sorry, but the real answer is "from having had kids". —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 06:10, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::{{re|Arctic Gazelle}} While I honestly don't intend to be mean, it was, frankly, a really dumb idea, and if I were you I wouldn't harp on it any more, lest you attract unwanted attention from people looking for presumed troublemakers. Perhaps it wasn't intended to be quite as dumb as it sounded, and you meant to propose something different than what you proposed, but it is '''indistinguishable''' from trolling. It's "we should start every article with the letter Q"-level silly.  We wouldn't discuss that for long just because it's a completely new idea, no one's seen it before, and it hasn't been discussed and rejected before. It is not important for 99.99999999% of readers (I'll assume good faith and say that 0.00000001% is you) to know whether Kasparov was facing N, S, E, or W. --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 21:52, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::::You sure know how to greatly intimidate someone safely. I learned a lot from you. Thanks for that. I am puzzled that someone so intelligent would not find my idea interesting.
:::::::Maybe you are right (I could take it as a compliment) that I am the only one who would care which way Kasparov was facing during a chess match. But I would suggest that if that is true it is because others have not spent years thinking about visualization and it's role in understanding and memory.
:::::::Also, I wonder what percentage of people would be grateful if they were to read that Kasparov was facing due east, or whatever the direction was? Conversely, how many people lay awake at night worrying about the fact that there was no encyclopedia that anyone can edit, before Wikipedia came into existence? 
:::::::My original title for the proposal was only that orientation of photographs should be made known somehow to the reader. That surely is not all that absurd? [[User:Arctic Gazelle|Arctic Gazelle]] ([[User talk:Arctic Gazelle|talk]]) 00:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
[[File:MBV 2008.jpg|thumb|upright|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hE6z6wNz4I Don't cramp my style!] --Tryptofish]]
::::::Maybe it's a [[feng shui]] thing? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:14, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::::I'll let you know. Pass me those [[Eiger#North_face|crampons]], would you? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:31, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Pardon my ignorance, but is a crampon a tampon for when you have cramps? That's the only thing I can think of. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:37, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Quite possibly. [[Lux Interior|Lighting is crucial]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:41, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::That sounds [[Mountain climbing problem|very uncomfortable]]! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:09, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::Oh no! Now we've got an [[My Bloody Valentine (band)|earworm]] to go with this semantic [[Digression|wormhole]]!! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:09, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
::::::Yes, but some of us are desperate to know if Deep Blue was [[Bluefaced Leicester|facing Leicester]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:19, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
{{od}}Well, now.  [[List_of_Monty_Python%27s_Flying_Circus_episodes|Where sheep're concerned, the question is really was Harold flying into the wind]]. [[Takeoff_and_landing|Very important at take-off]]. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 22:45, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
:How did we go from crampons to Monty and even further backward to [[Wright brothers|Orville & Wilbur]]? They aren't the only ones who were high fliers considering this monumental moment in time. [[File:SMirC-stoned.svg|x20px|@_,@]] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 20:48, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
::Are you sure that they're the ''right'' brothers? In any case, I've brought the [[Orville Redenbacher|popcorn]]. (Just don't [[Charlotte's Web#Characters|pig]] out on it!) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:09, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
:::Did someone mention [[Orville the Duck|Orville]]?? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:05, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
::::But we've had ''more'' than enough about [[Donald Duck|The Donald]]! To the point that it's driving me [[Daffy Duck|daffy]]! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:16, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::At least it's not driving you [[River Taff|Taffy]]. Some of us are historically [[Hen Ogledd|north facing]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:30, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

== Could have been worse ==

It could have said: "He was posthumously awarded the [[Navy Cross]] and born to [[Joseph P. Kennedy Sr.]] (1888–1969) and [[Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy]] (1890–1995) as the eldest of nine children."

I just re-read that, it sounds even creepier the second time around. [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]])</small></small> 21:43, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
::''For those playing along at home, the reference is to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1008158497]''

== I had a momentary lull in my day  ==

So what better time to make use of it than on a Friday when WP is relatively quiet?  I made us a little something to add to our dramah artillery. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 18:53, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Complaints take a number.jpg|thumb|center|upright=1.3|An updated boomerang to align more closely with 21st Century Wikipedia and American politics.]]
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1009104079] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:04, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
**Nice, but any chance of putting a white outline around the lettering to make it more legible? —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 19:40, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
***I'll see what I can do. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 19:44, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
:::{{tick}} - refresh the page, if you have an ample amount of spare time. 😊 [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 20:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
:::::Much better. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 20:29, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
::Is [[Bonaire]] in the (hand)-[[Grenadines]]? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:36, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
::Come to think of it, [[grenadine]] can be an ingredient in many a momentary lull. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:38, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

== Important question ==

Do you canoe? --'''[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 13:41, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
:Um, is this some kind of code language? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:56, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
::Apologies for the cryptic inquiry. In all seriousness, just hoping you're doing well and that Wikipedia isn't frustrating you too much.--'''[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 15:39, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:::I appreciate your asking. Well, there's the lonely death of my colleague, mentioned elsewhere on this page, and an aunt of my boyfriend who similarly died alone in a hospital in Brazil. So we can add [[Jair Bolsonaro]] to the list of sociopathic fucks joining Trump and his family, Stephen Miller, and rest of their gang of criminals and sadists in hell. Other than that it's all sweetness and roses on my end, and I trust all is well with you too. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:51, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
::::And he's not even got [[:File:2020-03-24 Pronunciamento do Presidente da República, Jair Bolsonaro em Rede Nacional de Rádio e Televisão - 49695919452 (cropped 2).jpg|lovely blond hair]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:54, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Or do you [[Canoo|canoo]]?? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:49, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:I can ''ooh'', for what it's worth. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 18:04, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJLwknHXJDg More tea, vicar?] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:07, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:::[[Typhoo Tea]]? I tasted that once, and it wasn't "ooh" (much less neo-orgasmic "ooh"). More like "eww". Score one for the US. (Just don't mention [[Budweiser|Bud]].) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:49, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
::::Ah yes, I guess you're more of a [[PG Tips|tips]] man. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgzEBLa3PPk] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:56, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::(1) I'm a fish, not a man. (2) I actually never heard of [[PG Tips]] until now. I can't make up my mind whether that sounds like a name for the ''other'' kind of [[cannabis|tea]], or whether it's the name of a rapper. [[Procter and Gamble]], maybe? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:03, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::Heathens! It's [[Yorkshire Tea]] or nothing. Well okay, maybe coffee. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 20:42, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::[[Yorkshire Terrier|For the dogs.]] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:47, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::::How very dare you!!! If you continue to denigrate the good name of Yorkshire Tea I'll report you to ANI! {{fbdb}} <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 20:51, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::I'm just a [[Young Thug|YT]]. Don't you know, the Americans have been ''revolting'' for many years!{{fbdb}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:55, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::RIP [[Tea Party protests|Rush Limbaugh]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:12, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::I think you may have confused it with [[Teabagging|this]]. (warning about link!) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:30, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::Some things really don't require illustrations. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 22:38, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLTnacYvvg4 "Get your bollocks out of my face!"] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:49, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Broken window large.jpg|thumb|upright|We broke EEng's window! --Tryptofish<br><br>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-dpiIzYQ5g Nothin' new] -- DrainLowe123<br><br>Then again [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]] tend to be [[software bug|broken]] most of the time. --Tryptofish456]]
::::::::::::::No [[Bullock's]]? [[Bull]]! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:28, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::<small><small><small>Please, for the love of God, YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN. I'm begging you. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:14, 4 March 2021 (UTC)</small></small></small>
::::::::::::::::<small><small><small><small>It's wall-to-wall bastards...... <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 00:30, 4 March 2021 (UTC)</small></small></small></small>
:::::::::::::::::{{yo| Martinevans123}} Ahem, it's rest in ''pieces''. {{yo|EEng}} Shucks, mister. We done told ya we got nowhere else to play. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 02:15, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Er, I guess I should consider this {{resolved}}?--'''[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 00:22, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

== [[MOS:OVERLINK]] ==
[[File:Route 1 , Between Vik and Kirkjubæjarklaustur - panoramio (7).jpg|thumb|upright=.7|Moss overlink [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|DFO]]]]
Quick straw poll, does [[MOS:OVERLINK]] in your opinion discourage wikilinking [[reissue]] in articles? (Context [[Talk:Green Bullfrog/GA1|here]]). [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 12:26, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

PS: [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#EEng's talk page size]]. Maybe I'm having a bad day but if I'm struggling to write the above sentence without my browser timing out, I think we at least should discuss it. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 12:34, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

:<small>[[Talk Talk|Talk page]] reissue for [[Packaging and packaging waste directive|radical repackaging reasons]] required? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 12:43, 10 March 2021 (UTC) </small>

::I'm happy to set up archiving on this talk to match mine, which is : threads are archived 21 days past the last comment, individual archives have a maximum size of 70K, no archiving takes place until there are more than 10 threads on the page. As I said on the other thread, it's not a question of "getting off your back" as just that I can't read this page on my phone and feel somewhat left out. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 16:39, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
:::Ritchie, you know I like you very much, but I think you are having a bad day. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:38, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Reading through the (now closed) ANI thread I was surprised that this talk page crashes an iPhone. I thought they were supposed to be good. I'm using an old HTC One running Android 5 (circa 2014) and it loads without any issues. Same goes for my ~12-year-old laptop. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 21:36, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
:I am half expecting an admin to just [[WP:BOLD|jump in]], archive the talk page, which would then trigger a revert and a complaint from EEng, which would then lead to EEng being blocked. That's how this usually works, right?--'''[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 21:54, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
::Admin misapplies WP:BOLD, ends up banning editor. [[WP:BFE|Sounds about right]]. {{Smiley|smirk}} <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#ABAB9D">design</b>]]</b> 22:08, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
::<small>[[Bottomless Pit (band)|Indef]] Threesie now, I say. And [[Disintermediation|cut out the middleman]]. Block 'em up, I say... [[Recurring jokes in Private Eye|it's the only wiki language these Admins understand]]!!  [[User:Martinevans123|COVID-19 cab driver123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:28, 10 March 2021 (UTC) </small>
:::Not an admin but if the talk page archiving is really an urgent issue (and one doesn't want to just take the lazy <nowiki>{{subst:User:ClueBot III/JustArchiveThis}}</nowiki>) and if we want to avoid a test case for the suggested desysop policy I'll volunteer my poor self: can't be much worse than waiting 6 months for... :) [[User:RandomCanadian|RandomCanadian]] ([[User talk:RandomCanadian|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/RandomCanadian|contribs]])  03:50, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
::::I keep wondering if the slow loading times aren't really a symptom that something's wrong with how the server processes the wikitext before sending it to the browser, or in how the browser scripting for wiki edit windows work, or something like that. These files really aren't that large, by modern internet standards. So why are not-that-large files so noticeably slow? It would be more helpful to track down and fix the slowdown than to keep complaining that everything's too slow and making people work around it by moving their messages to inconvenient archives. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 08:22, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::Good point on the technical issues. But removing old discussions and moving them elsewhere also has the benefit of helping keep track of which matters are current and which ones have been resolved. [[User:RandomCanadian|RandomCanadian]] ([[User talk:RandomCanadian|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/RandomCanadian|contribs]])  14:15, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::It's for EEng to decide how to organize his old talk archives and which ones he thinks are worth keeping on the current page. Listing reasons why you think he should do it a certain way is, at this point, kind of pointless. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 17:04, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
=== Late to the party, again ===

I frequent {{U|DGG}}'s talk page as well as {{U|EEng}}'s talk page. I enjoy both—usually, but not always—for different reasons. Both show an amazing amount of patience and forbearance (in different ways). I have no problem with length at either tp—perhaps because I use an iPad most of the time; I'll likely never buy an iPhone again—the iPad is so much cheaper and more useful. As far as possible bandwidth issues, perhaps it would be possible to add anchor points in the talk pages and index the points on the user page. On the other hand I always carry a camera bag that easily accommodates an iPad in a slot.  
:
I find talk pages that are archived every day or two much more problematic, or worse, just blanked that often. — [[User:Neonorange|Neonorange]] ([[User talk:Neonorange|Phil]]) 05:02, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
*I thought the table of contents does that. But perhaps you mean chronological points by month or year in addition which would lead to the start of a group of sections? --it might make sense for the most recent month or two--this is the first time I've heard this suggested, and I am going to try it tomorrow. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 07:15, 11 March 2021 (UTC) 
::But my talk p. just worked fine on my iphone xr, --but that's using my 50 MB home wifi and being 10 feet from the access point. instantaneous access to the table of contents and then to each section. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 07:15, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

=== A barnstar for you! ===

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Special Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Special Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I just want to say that I like how you spend time on the project instead of archiving your talkpage. {{fbdb}} -- [[User:Emir of Wikipedia|Emir of Wikipedia]] ([[User talk:Emir of Wikipedia|talk]]) 20:05, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
|}

:Well I feel it's the least I can to do make up for all the man-hours lost to the project because of editors sitting waiting for my talk page to load. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:34, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

::"fo shizzle ma dizzle". [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:05, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

=== A barnstar for you! ===

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Vitruvian Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Technical Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For the invaluable technical contribution of "archiving your talk page" <sup><small>[[User:SubjectiveNotability|SubjectiveNotability]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-12ex"><small>a [[User:GeneralNotability|GN]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:GeneralNotability|talk to the boss]]) 13:14, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
|}
:Yay!! [[Miracle on 34th Street|Maureen O'Hara]]'s got nothing on you, EEng. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:10, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
::This is very disruptive, I'm very upset. The large amount of archiving resulted in a large number of changes on my watchlist. As a result, my watchlist suffered a severe outbreak of hives.{{fbdb}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 16:59, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

== Haiku bot ==

First of all: holy shit the page loaded in under ten seconds! All right! :-D

But more importantly, you'll recall the ANI haikus of years past. Today, I learned that there's a bot on reddit called "haikusbot" that goes around ''detecting'' haikus in other people's comments and pointing them out. I was reading this /r/madden thread (don't judge) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Madden/comments/idm4jy/madden_21_playbooks_every_formation_and_play_in/] and someone wrote:
:{{tqq|Did they fix this game, or is it the same trash they shit out every year?}}
...and the bot posted:
:{{tq2|''Did they fix this game,''<br>''Or is it the same trash they''<br>''Shit out every year?''<br>- haterrage<br>I detect haikus. Sometimes, successfully. [https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/ Learn more about me]}}
What a brilliant use of technology! Wikipedia needs this. ANI needs this. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Levivich|harass]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contribs/Levivich|hound]]</sub> 16:11, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

== Please stop ==
::''Preliminary note: The Curator offers this quotation (from the NYT via our colleague [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1031487773 Crossroads]) as the key to understanding the events in this thread:''
:::{{tq|Mr. Pegler [a trans man] specified that his beef is not with gender-neutral neopronouns. He felt like elevating objects and animals to human pronoun levels was dismissive. "I couldn’t stomach why anyone would want to identify as an object?" Mr. Pegler wrote in an Instagram direct message. "They dehumanize us as trans people," he added. "We are people! Not objects or animals. So that’s why I stated that they are out of hand, because they make us look like a bit of a joke."}}
::''(So far no outrage from animal rights activists condemning Mr. Pegler for his vicous and hateful speciesism.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:42, 2 July 2021 (UTC)''
:::<small>As far as I can see, that's just [[Bully Beef and Chips|beefism]] pure and simple! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:56, 2 July 2021 (UTC) </small>
::::<small>[[Brutus Beefcake|This, too]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:54, 2 July 2021 (UTC)</small>

Please stop denigrating Lonsdale and those who use neopronouns. I understand that you don't like the pronoun, nor believe it is a genuine preference, but this is becoming cruel. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 01:13, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::''Our visitor, an otherwise very sensible and respected admin and former arb, refers to a discussion of the idea that ''tree'' is a pronoun -- links below.''
:I'm not denigrating anyone. I ''am'' trying to give a short, sharp shock to editors somehow unable to see through the fey pretension of [https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/pride/8477100/keiynan-lonsdale-preferred-pronouns-tree] -- {{tps}}s may enjoy reviewing [[WT:Manual_of_Style/Archive_221#When_the_preferred_pronoun_is_not_a_pronoun]] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1014106430#Tree_asked_politely_to_be_referred_to_by_the_pronoun_%22Tree%22.], [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:11, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::You'd think someone who so constantly is having to defend that everyone else work around their Comedic Interjections into discussions they personally find dull and demanding idiosyncratic exceptions be made for them (I had more than enough time to add a couple five dollar words here when scrolling to the bottom of your internet replication of a ''Hoarders'' episode here) would have the self awareness to not describe anyone else as having "fey pretensions," but life is, as always, a true surprise. [[User:Parabolist|Parabolist]] ([[User talk:Parabolist|talk]]) 06:21, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:::<small>Well, {{U|Parabolist}}, as I live and breathe! How the hell are you?</small> I'm not against fey pretension; I'm against people refusing to recognize it for what it is and insisting articles be based on it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:00, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::::I understand this has become a little more stressful and strenuous, what with the Troubles below, but I'd like to set all that aside and respond honestly to you here, man. Despite going in on you a bit last night, I want you to know this comes from a place within spitting distance of the heart, and all. But whenever someone comes to me and says, in whatever fun or polite they want to, 'hey, stop being an asshole,' I've learned to just...stop being an asshole. ''Even when I absolutely wasn't being one.'' Doubling down when you should be cashing out is the way into the gutter, and all. And so, what struck me last night into saying something was seeing someone come to you in the most polite fashion, asking you to just cool your jets, and getting a full blast of unleaded kerosene in return. Putting your comment back in the way you did, with the edits you did, I find it hard to believe you didn't know you were being kind of an asshole. Which, whatever, who isn't sometimes? But come by it honestly, I think. Anyway, sorry if this hits you in a bad mood, as you might rightfully be in one. Being blocked is never fun. Just sleep on it. [[User:Parabolist|Parabolist]] ([[User talk:Parabolist|talk]]) 07:48, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::<small>Actually, I missed this until now. I appreciate that you took the time. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:09, 3 July 2021 (UTC)</small>
This, and my attempts to deescalate at [[Talk:Keiynan Lonsdale]], were my attempts to avoid ANI. But since you have [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Keiynan_Lonsdale&diff=prev&oldid=1014106430 insisted]:
[[File:Information icon4.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.&nbsp;The thread is [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#EEng ridiculing a BLP who uses neopronouns|EEng ridiculing a BLP who uses neopronouns]]. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice--> [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 14:21, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:{{re|GorillaWarfare}} Do you have any reliable sources indicating that the BLP has used neopronouns outside of that one statement in 2018? (The one where he said, "At the end of the day, everyone’s a tree. I want to call my friends 'tree' and me 'tree' and everyone 'tree.'") If not, you may be on the wrong side of BLP yourself in stating that the BLP "uses neopronous" (present tense) as you did in that AN/I header. <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~[[User:Awilley|Awilley]] <small>([[User talk:Awilley|talk]])</small></span> 22:08, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::The 2018 source is the most recent I'm aware of where Lonsdale has discussed pronouns. I can add "may" to the header if you're concerned. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 22:13, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:::That seems prudent. I had thought of doing something like that myself, but didn't want to cause drama. I was thinking of the bad press Wikipedia could get if we were the ones falsely stating that someone uses alternate pronouns when they don't. (And looking at some of the sources people are bringing at AN/I that seems likely.) <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~[[User:Awilley|Awilley]] <small>([[User talk:Awilley|talk]])</small></span> 22:47, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::::Which appears to be exactly what EEng meant by "Scenario 4". ''sigh...'' <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 23:50, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

=== Blocked ===

I have blocked you for a week in relation to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1014159534#EEng_ridiculing_a_BLP_who_uses_neopronouns this ANI thread]. While the point you are making may have some validity, making it by insulting and denigrating the subject of a BLP is not acceptable. You have been around long enough to know this. Restoring such comments after they were removed by an admin as BLP violations, and after you were (very politely, I might add) asked to stop is doubly unacceptable and that in particular is the reason for this block. The duration takes into account your familiarity with the relevant polices and your previous block log. You may of course appeal this action by using the {{tl|unblock}} template or by asking for your comments to be copied over to ANI. Regards, [[User:HJ Mitchell|<b style="color: teal; font-family: Tahoma">HJ&nbsp;Mitchell</b>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts?</span>]] 14:40, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Also, for the record:
{{ivmbox | image = Commons-emblem-notice.svg |imagesize=50px | bg = #E5F8FF | text  = This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. ''It does '''not''' imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.''

You have shown interest in articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions|discretionary sanctions]] is in effect. Any administrator may impose [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Sanctions|sanctions]] on editors who do not strictly follow [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies]], or the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Page restrictions|page-specific restrictions]], when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Guidance for editors|guidance on discretionary sanctions]] and the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee|Arbitration Committee's]] decision [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons|here]]. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
}}<!-- Derived from Template:Ds/alert -->
And in case it was needed, I remind you that BLP applies regardless of the namespace. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<b style="color: teal; font-family: Tahoma">HJ&nbsp;Mitchell</b>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts?</span>]] 14:46, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

While we're here, might as well also add:
{{ivmbox | image = Commons-emblem-notice.svg |imagesize=50px | bg = #E5F8FF | text  = This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. ''It does '''not''' imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.''

You have shown interest in any gender-related dispute or controversy and associated people. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions|discretionary sanctions]] is in effect. Any administrator may impose [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Sanctions|sanctions]] on editors who do not strictly follow [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies]], or the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Page restrictions|page-specific restrictions]], when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions#Guidance for editors|guidance on discretionary sanctions]] and the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee|Arbitration Committee's]] decision [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender and sexuality|here]]. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
}}<!-- Derived from Template:Ds/alert --> [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 14:49, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:You know, the bit about {{tq|It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date}} is kind of hard to take at face value when delivered immediately following a block. <sup><small>[[User:SubjectiveNotability|SubjectiveNotability]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-12ex"><small>a [[User:GeneralNotability|GN]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:GeneralNotability|talk to the boss]]) 14:56, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::I've seen silly blocks, but taking the piss out of a bloke who wants to be called "tree" seems spot on. Well done, I lolled a lot. -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy''' <small>the grumpy dog</small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 15:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::::Good heavens. Some of my best friends are [[Tree martin|trees]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:39, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::I am a tree. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GyjepUD50 video]. -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy''' <small>the sycamore</small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 15:48, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::This is conifer erasure! [[User:EvergreenFir|'''<span style="color:#8b00ff;">Eve</span><span style="color:#6528c2;">rgr</span><span style="color:#3f5184;">een</span><span style="color:#197947;">Fir</span>''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 16:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:::No, Roxy! No!. This is just getting worse. Taking the piss out of other editors was more than bad enough. Taking it out of a BLP subject is just too muc. And there is no way to accept or condone it. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 15:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::::But yes. Taking the piss out of somebody that wants to be called tree is fine. Good grief. He's a bloke. -[[User:Roxy the dog|'''Roxy''' <small>the sycamore</small>.]] [[User talk:Roxy the dog|'''wooF''']] 15:27, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::Whatever one may think about such a person, we all are still required to adhere to BLP policy. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 15:42, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::No, {{u|Roxy the dog|Roxy}}, taking the piss out of the real, living subject of a Wikipedia article, on the talk page of the article, is not fine. It's not what Wikipedia is about and it risks bringing Wikipedia into disrepute. Feel free to take the piss out of ''ideas'', in ''general'' terms, so far as is within the project scope, or out of whatever you like on some other corner of the Internet. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<b style="color: teal; font-family: Tahoma">HJ&nbsp;Mitchell</b>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts?</span>]] 15:45, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
{{od|5}}
Except {{tq|taking the piss out of the real, living subject of a Wikipedia article, on the talk page of the article}} is not what I was doing, and your comment shows you didn't actually read the discussion on the article's talk page and the earlier ones linked from it.
What I was doing was taking the piss out of the people who <u>actually believe Lonsdale wants</u> to be called ''tree'', when (as is perfectly obvious) he has no such desire; I point out for the millionth time that Lonsdale's own PR firm continues to refer to him as ''he'' [https://www.persona-pr.com/?s=lonsdale]. {{U|Floquenbeam}} has it spot on:
:{{tq|treating a request for everyone to use the pronoun "tree" the same as we treat a request to use xe/xem/xyr or similar makes it easier for people to think the mocking attitude of the essay was reasonable. Thinking that using "tree" as a pronoun is dumb is not in the same category as the attitude expressed in the essay. I read the subject's "tree" quote as a kind of philosophical "imagine there's no heaven" kind of statement, not as a genuine request that this pronoun be used. It's fine if people want to interpret it as an actual request, and reword the article to avoid pronouns altogether, as long as we don't actually use "tree" in the article. But I don't think criticizing that is nearly in the same ballpark. IMHO, there was no need for EEng continuing to beat that objection to death, and there was no need for GW to keep it alive, so to speak, by over-reacting to it, and there was no need for a block.}}

There's definitely a place (though not on WP) for discussion about whether there's liberation value in a thoughtful campaign to get people to understand and use ''xe/xem/xyr''{{snd}}very much like the movement to bring ''Ms.'' into common use 50 years ago. Such a consciousness-raising campaign around a considered addition to the language is <u>completely different</u> from random individuals picking random words to be their "pronouns". If people want to do that, that's not my business. If other people want to invest their mental energy in referring to their friends by tree or bunny pronouns [http://pronoun.is/bun/bunny/buns/bunnys/bunself], that's also not my business. But when people show up at Wikipedia insisting that articles refer to people that way, that <u>is</u> my business, and I'm going to say something about it.{{pb}}I wasn't denigrating Lonsdale for any choice of pronouns, because it's patently obvious that he made no such choice; my disdain is for those who keep insisting that we actually refer to Lonsdale as ''tree'' in his article when (as linked at the start of this post) <u>Lonsdale himself doesn't do that</u>. But we have editors so focused on falling all over themselves in the RIGHTGREATWRONGS department that they can't see the forest for the, um, trees.

[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:04, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:{{u|EEng}}, Sorry, not today. You don't get to use terms like "lunacy" on a BLP talk page, then restore it after you were asked not to (the problem with it having been pointed out), then pretend you weren't talking about the LP. Had you not restored it after GW removed it, I would have just chalked it up to silliness but you tipped it over into malice, or at least [[WP:POINT|making a point]] at the subject's expense. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<b style="color: teal; font-family: Tahoma">HJ&nbsp;Mitchell</b>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts?</span>]] 16:19, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:::{{U|HJ Mitchell}}, I care little about being blocked, as most people know, since it's one of the hazards of the job. But I ''do'' care about having my words and actions misrepresented, and I'm getting pretty fucking sick and tired of your continuing to say that my, er, criticism was directed at the subject of the article. As now repeatedly requested, please ''read the thread'' at [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1014200478] get back to me. And I guess it wasn't obvious, but yes please to copy my post above to the ANI thread. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::::I've copied it. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:26, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::{{u|HJ Mitchell}}, I'm going to play devil's advocate here a little bit, and draw your attention to [[User:Ritchie333/Userbox Boris]], where I call a living person a "complete nincompoop". What's the difference? If BoJo complained on [[Talk:Boris Johnson]] about the criticism in his article, would we have to carefully respect his views, or tell him to take a hike and read [[WP:COI]]? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 16:40, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:::{{u|Ritchie333}}, I'm disappointed in the comparison. Johnson is a household name and a national politician whose policies have been widely criticised, and who has got to the position he holds by playing the "court jester". While calling him a "nincompoop" on Wikipedia is not entirely appropriate, nobody is likely to be offended by it. It's a lot milder than how I might describe him in the pub when those finally reopen. Describing the way somebody refers to themselves as "lunacy" on a BLP talk page is clearly inappropriate and liable to cause unnecessary offence. EEng knows this. Restoring it after this is pointed out to them is doubly inappropriate. EEng knows this as well. The block is lenient with all things considered, and for just about any other editor would the inevitable consequence of restoring a BLP violation after being asked to stop. He's lucky I didn't spend more than a couple of minutes looking for evidence of "awareness" or this would be a discretionary sanction, probably accompanied by a topic ban. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<b style="color: teal; font-family: Tahoma">HJ&nbsp;Mitchell</b>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<span style="color: navy; font-family: Times New Roman" title="(Talk page)">Penny for your thoughts?</span>]] 16:59, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:I think the heart of the issue here is not so much that the comment was restored on [[Talk:Keiynan Lonsdale]], as to ''how'' it was done, with inflammatory comments ''faux'' struck-out and replaced, as opposed to just rewriting the comment to be less disruptive. To me, that reads in the same manner as a child being asked to apologise and doing so in a sarcastic manner eg: "You called her stupid. Apologise." / "I'm sorry you're so stupid". That's just ''asking'' for trouble and I can't really criticise the block here if it was done for that reason. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 18:00, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
:{{yo|HJ Mitchell}} Since one important issue here seems to be whether EEng's criticism was directed at the subject of the article, and so possibly a BLP violation, something EEng specifically denies above, are there diffs that, in your view, show that he did? Thanks, [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 20:26, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
::There being no respionse by HJM, nor by GW (who is obviously following here), I'd like some kind person to post the following just below the ANI post by HJM seen in  [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1014236439&oldid=1014236133 this link]:
 *:I realize you're dancing as fast as you can, but that's nothing but handwaving until you answer the challenge -- issued to you twice now [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1014209592][https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1014214158], and twice ignored by you even as you were posting the above exercise in alternative reality -- to provide actual, specific diffs for my alleged BLP violation. Or maybe {{U|Gorilla Warfare}} can help you out with that? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:11, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:11, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 01:21, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
:::There's no space in my username so if you ping me with that I don't get it, just as a heads up. I do have your page temporarily watchlisted, but was away from my computer this evening. I see someone else has already gotten to posting it. If you are asking me to provide the specific BLP violations, I linked them in the first ANI post. 04:35, 23 March 2021 and 00:57, 25 March 2021 are the two I would consider the actual violations, most of the other stuff was just rude. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 02:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

=== Wikipedia Editor Temporarily Banned for Criticizing Use of 'Tree' as Pronoun ===
[[File:Abies alba 02.jpg|right|300px|thumb|[[Evergreen (Love Theme from A Star Is Born)|"EEng-vergreen"]]]]
From our second-favorite unreliable source:

Wikipedia Editor Temporarily Banned for Criticizing Use of 'Tree' as Pronoun --''Breitbart''

(URL: www.breitbart.com/tech/2021/03/26/wikipedia-editor-temporarily-banned-for-criticizing-use-of-tree-as-pronoun/ )

Also featured on today's [[Drudge Report]] and on [[Reddit]].[https://www.reddit.com/r/BreitbartNews/comments/mdul8p/wikipedia_editor_temporarily_banned_for/] 

Related: [https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/pride/8477100/keiynan-lonsdale-preferred-pronouns-tree 'Love, Simon' Actor Keiynan Lonsdale Talks About Preferred Pronouns: 'I Just Want to Go by Tree'] --''Billboard''

--[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 22:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

:Eatcha heart out, [[Streisand effect|Barbara]]!! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
::You gotta love it! EEng is now a hero to the QAnon crowd! And the image at right is part of the War on Christmas! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
:::Holy unintended consequences, Batman!{{pb}}I can hardly bring my fingers to type these words, but... by the standards of typical in-the-moment coverage of this kind of thing, the Breitbart piece is actually a pretty good summary. And they did note that I think Trump's a sociopathic-narcissist-racist criminal moron, so I don't feel entirely misrepresented. The one significant fact which I suspect they'd have included, had they known it, is that I'm gay too; I feel it's a bit unfair that I get implicitly cast as the big bad straight-by-default guy vs. queer-speaking-truth-to-power Gorilla Warfare. (Of course, I'm a ''white male cisgendered'' gay, so that imposes a 50% discount on my victimhood credit, presumed wokeness, and authority to lecture from the moral high ground.) And I want to correct a definite error{{snd}}the assertion that I {{tq|did express support for using other pronouns, including "xe/xem/xyr" pronouns.}} No, what I said is {{tq|there's a place ... for <u>discussion about whether</u> there's liberation value in a thoughtful campaign to get people to understand and use ''xe/xem/xyr''}} (underlining added).{{pb}}[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:04, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
::::I'm still undecided whether you're actually a straight, homophobic, right-wing asshole masquerading as a gay, left-wing intellectual for reasons unknown.{{fbdb}} <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 01:18, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::Surely it should be obvious that it's the other way around. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:48, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::That's what's confusing me. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 02:25, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
::::What a very good summary. [[User:The Devil's Advocate|T. D. Adler]] gets in a lot of details, all the right order. It must be very boring for most Breitbart readers? But really... that caption for Melania saying "C'mon Donald, light my fire!" Is that the "worst" insult he could find on your page? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 12:23, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::p.s. seems we all now have to [[You Can Call Me Al|call]] you [[Wikipedia:Unblockables|"Mr Capone"]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 12:30, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
:EEng, I have a bunch of things to say. First, for purposes of this talk page section '''only''', my preferred pronoun is "lawnmower". Second, I am never going to let you live this down. If you'd like, I'll see if I can set up a date for you with Lindsay Graham. I think the two of you would make a cute couple. (Anyone who thinks I just violated BLP can kiss my lawnmower.)
:And now that I've had my requisite fun, I want to say something serious. In my opinion, my dear friend {{u|Bishonen}} did the wrong thing, although it's clearly a matter of opinion in which fish, lizards, and lawnmowers can have legitimate differences of opinion. As I said at ANI, I believe that you ridiculed other editors, and that you were wrong to have done so. I'm aware that you went to some high falutin' university like Yale or something, which makes you smarter than the average person hit by lightening. In my experience, you are very frequently correct in your evaluations of editorial judgements here. But the fact that you are right and someone else is wrong does not entitle you to show off what a smarty-pants you are by making fun of them. It's really ugly. I mean it. Stop doing it. Bish wasn't wrong in terms of enacting consensus, but she was wrong in making it psychologically easier for you to figure that you were vindicated. She did you, personally, no favor. And '''you''' really, really need to get the message that you have every right to explain why you are correct about something, but no right to ridicule other editors who are wrong. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:35, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
::"I heard you went to Yale."
::"Yah. I Yust got out."
::<small>Please use as my personal pronoun any 11-digit prime number. Any other term -- and this specifically includes rewriting your sentences so that they contain no personal pronouns at all -- will be dealt with [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0iA3rv9pZc according to the customs of our tribe].</small> --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 20:21, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Fun. band.jpg|thumb|200px|"[[Fun (band)]] of [[Enablers]]"?]]
:::And I thought T. D. Adler's summary was good. But the Yale joke is the funniest I've seen all year. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:33, 27 March 2021 (UTC) <small> '''Official Govt. Warning:''' Note: the value of [[Bitcoin|bitcoin pronouns]] may go down as well as up.</small>
::::And Guy Macon's link is required viewing for everyone watching here. (Did you see ''me'' in it?) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:20, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::I tried to [[If Looks Could Kill, I'd Watch You Die|look away]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:29, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::Come to think of it, that was the ultimate illustration of [[WP:TROUT]]ing! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:38, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

===Unblocked===
You have been unblocked. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 03:33, 27 March 2021 (UTC).

:In the wise words of Contrapoints (as Justine),

:{{tq|"Hasn't it occurred to you that being shamed and berated for being a 'trender' during your exploration year might not have been the most helpful thing?...The stigma you perpetuate against gender confusion and experimentation keeps trans people in the closet and delays transition. It alienates 'baby trans' from the community that should be welcoming them instead of publicly humiliating them."}}[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdvM_pRfuFM&feature=youtu.be]

:[[User:Kolya Butternut|Kolya Butternut]] ([[User talk:Kolya Butternut|talk]]) 03:53, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

EEng&mdash;for the avoidance of doubt&mdash;you should know that, although I don't think you violated BLP policy, and I argued strongly for a reduction of your block, or unblock, I hardly think you are blameless in all this. You have such talent, I really wish you would use your superpowers only for good. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 12:45, 27 March 2021 (UTC) <small> P.S. Perhaps I'm partly to blame also, since I seem to have fallen down on my chosen task of being your Socratic gadfly, I will hope to be a better scold in the future.</small>

=== Your current travails at ANI ===
[[File:2004-GayPrideBrazil-1.jpeg|upright=0.76|thumb|Well, if they're going to drag me to ANI...<br><br><small>[[Spot the ball|Spot the Tree Competition]] - ME123</small>]]
::''"Current" travails: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9QPfiLuQ9c#t=1h5m37s]''{{snd}}[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]]
:::<small>That video made me notice the resemblance between [[Buster Keaton]] and [[Justin Long]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::<small>Yeah sure, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r8qr-p9z5g&t=1m30s whatevs...] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:49, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</small>
::::<small>No, those jackets, in the image to the right, are definitely not straight. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:53, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::::<small>Depends on your definition of "straight". [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:02, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</small>

For some reason this thread reminded me of a novel that I read a few years ago written by John Kennedy Toole, and the provenace of its title. [[User:Phil Bridger|Phil Bridger]] ([[User talk:Phil Bridger|talk]]) 19:35, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
::{{U|Phil Bridger}}, surely you don't think I picked that phrase by accident? From the lead of the [[A Confederacy of Dunces|relevant article]]: {{tq|Its central character, Ignatius J. Reilly, is an educated but slothful 30-year-old man living with his mother ... eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion.}} (Note, however, that I do not live with my mother. Nor am I 30 years old. Nor is my name Ignatius J. Reilly, though if I could do it all over again that'd be a great Wikipeda handle.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:52, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
:''A Tree Grows in Brooklyn''? [[User:Randy Kryn|Randy Kryn]] ([[User talk:Randy Kryn|talk]]) 19:40, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
::[https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/video-lightning-bolt-destroys-tree-near-la-center/]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:48, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
::::What? You expect him to opine? Nah - he's more likely to bark. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 18:06, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::We didn't necessarily expect him to opine, but o-maple, o-birch, o-spruce, maybe something like that. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::Well, I can see him sprucing up. Maple he will consider it, or more likely he'll birch about it. From little nuts big oaks grow...or something like that...so there's hope, even for coneheads like me. We're at the age when we can no longer bear fruit, but some of us still have dates. Well...fig it, I'll just make like a tree and leave. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 18:22, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::I'll admit that I o-overdid the o-orchard. [[Oklahoma (Rodgers and Hammerstein song)|O-O-O-O-Oleander!]] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:28, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
:::Hot dog, anyone? 🌭 <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 20:31, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
*I keep hearing about this "EEng Brigand". Where do I apply? I have a lot of experience as a minion and as a henchman and want to move up. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 03:23, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*:In all seriousness, GM, what I love about your post is that you yourself had me at ANI about a year ago: [[WP:Administrators%27 noticeboard/IncidentArchive1044#Personal attack by EEng]]. So you see, with repeated exposure everyone comes around to the dark side eventually; it's just a matter of time.
*:And as it happens, that very thread was directly on point to the central issue in the most recent dustup; {{tps}}s are encouraged to take a look. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*::So much for putting the past behind us and trying to be friendly. I won't make that mistake again. Unwatching this page. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 13:33, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*:::No, no, Guy, you misunderstand{{snd}}really and truly! What I was saying is that I'm glad we're still friends despite a past misunderstanding (i.e. you've "come around to the dark side"{{snd}}you know, because some people think I'm Darth Vader or Emperor Palpatine) and bear you no ill will. Please tell me I've cleared that up and you'll un-unwatch; I can't bear to think there will be no more of [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=893224721 this kind of thing]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:50, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*::::(Back because of notice on my talk page.) OK, it looks like I completely misread the intent of the above. And for the record, I misjudged the consensus on civility. Turns out that "but what you just said is idiotic" is perfectly OK, but not "you are an idiot". (I am still unsure whether I can write "OK, let's assume for the sake of argument that you are an idiot.") Rewatching page, unstriking comments, going back to trying to be friendly. Let's forget this ever happened. [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAvcGcEc0k ]. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 14:33, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
*::::::::I actually think it's a good idea to ''not'' forget, since it's a useful reminder that misunderstandings happen. Let me do you the compliment of saying that in my estimation your "trying" to be friendly has always been successful. I meant it when I said I don't begrudge you the trip to ANI; many who have dragged me there have, once the community recalibrated their naughty detector for them, become active and valued participants on this very page (another example of what the "dark side" comment referred to).{{pb}}The idiotic{{ndash}}idiot distinction really is important. When someone says "You're acting like an idiot", the speaker is taking extra care to show that, despite your moment of temporary idiocy, he doesn't think you ''are'' an idiot{{snd}}if he wanted to say that he could do so with less trouble: "You're an idiot". As I said in the discussion I linked above:
*:::::::::{{tq|1=[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPeHHpXOOds#t=37s ''Everybody plays the fool sometimes, there's no exception to the rule'']. I personally appreciate having my own follies pointed out, because it is only in that way that wisdom can be attained (not that I'm anywhere near that point yet).}}
*::::::::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:27, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Guy, for me personally, the fish-throwing link you posted was a genuine delight, and I thank you for it very much. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 16:55, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::I feel sorry for [[Xena: Warrior Princess|Xena]]. That would make a great wikiname. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:52, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::I'm looking forward to a remake with [[Gal Gadot]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:57, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::This potentially irrevocable misunderstanding (say if Guy had instead simply said, sotto voce, "fuck you", and walked away never to return), to me, points out the dangers of trying to be too witty/clever/subtle/nuanced, a mistake, in my view, that witty, clever, subtle, and nuanced people like EEng often make. I generally prefer to be boringly direct, at the expense of humor (as a famous philosopher once said there's a fine line between clever and stupid), or when subtlety or nuance is required (say in arguments over personal pronouns), to be painfully detailed. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 16:20, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::Witty? Yes. Clever? Probably. Subtle and nuanced? You have got to be kidding me. {{(:}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 16:45, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Yes EEng's humor is often not particularly subtle or nuanced. But&mdash;in serious discussion&mdash;he is often quite so, because subtlety and nuance are needed when discussing things that are subtle and nuanced (and all things are to a mind that thinks deeply). [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 17:03, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::::{{ec}} Let me explain what I was thinking/feeling because human interaction is an interesting topic. First off, I am a high-functioning autistic (what they called Asperger's syndrome before the latest rejiggering of the categories). I have the typical attributes of that condition; high IQ, ability to concentrate on a problem, inability to detect emotional nuances or sarcasm, a love of wordplay, and a tendency to be overly-literal. Like many people with Asperger's I am usually able to successfully mimic someone without the condition, but it requires a conscious effort instead of coming naturally.
::::::::I am also having a lot of trouble with alt-med practitioners, mostly because of [[WP:YWAB]]. Unrelated, but it has been stressing me a bit. 
::::::::I felt that EEng was criticizing me over past events, when -- as became clear later -- that was not the intent. And yes, I seriously considered leaving silently, unwatching the page and muting notifications. Posting a goodbye message often results in abuse. I would have left silently if not for the other editors who I have been engaging with friendly bantering with on this page. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 17:21, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::I hope that you take this as a compliment, because that is how I intend it. I would never have guessed that, because I've always been impressed with your sense of humor and use of emotional nuance. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:30, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanks! Have a couple of fish songs:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDj7DuHVV9E][https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_miGclPFGs] --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 18:18, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::Holy mackerel!! The effects in that 1st video were amazing! Definitely worth a one pound fish!! [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 18:32, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::[[So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish|Thanks for all the fish!]] I agree with Atsme about the CFX in the first video. (But they had freshwater and saltwater fish in the same tank. Tsk, tsk.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:22, 28 March 2021 (UTC) <small>I just realized: that would mean ''tanks'' for all the fish! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:31, 28 March 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::::::::::::Two goldfish were relaxing in in a tank. One goldfish turned to the other and asked "do you know how to drive this thing?" 
:::::::::::::<sup><small>Thank you folks. You have been a great audience. I will be here all week. Tell your friends. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 00:41, 29 March 2021 (UTC)</small></sup>
::::::::::::::<sup><small>Those would be [[Myripristinae|soldier fish]], or maybe [[Fusilier damselfish|fusiliers]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:14, 29 March 2021 (UTC)</sup></small>
::::::::::::::Thank you so much Guy, for that short but punchy essay on "Wikipedia [[disciplinary procedure]] and how it works for me". [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:18, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 
{{od|:::::::::::::}}
{{collapse top|title=Horse goes into a bar. Bartender says:}}
"Why the long face?"
{{collapse bottom}}

{{collapse top|title=Anteater runs into a bar.<br/>Bartender says, "Want a drink"? Anteater says, "Nooooo". <br/>Bartender says, "Maybe you'd like a sandwich." Anteater says, "Noooooooooooo". <br/>Bartender says:}}
"Why the long noes?"
{{collapse bottom}}

{{collapse top|title=Rabbi goes into a bar with a frog on his shoulder. Bartender says, "Where'd you get ''that?''"}}
Frog says: "Brooklyn ... They're all over the place."
{{collapse bottom}}

{{collapse top|title=Three-legged dog goes into a bar. He says:}}
"Ahm lookin' for the man that ''SHOT MY PAW!''"
{{collapse bottom}}

{{collapse top|title=A skeleton walks into a bar.<br />Bartender says: "Hello stranger, what would you like?"<br />Skeleton says:}}
"A pint of beer and a mop, please."
{{collapse bottom}}

{{collapse top|title=[[Phineas Gage]] runs into a bar.}}
''[Think about it.And if you still don't get it, click the link.]''{{hsp}}{{refn|I think I stole this one from {{U|Tryptofish}}}}
{{reflist-talk}}
{{collapse bottom}}
[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:08, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
:Sometimes the bar runs into you. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 01:11, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
::Didn't Nietzsche say something about that? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:14, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
:::Nah. [[Jack Nitzsche|he was]] more concerned with other [[Needles and Pins (song)|sharp objects]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 11:36, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
{{collapse top|title=A neutron walks into a bar and runs up a tab. Ready to leave, the Neutron asks "What do I owe you?"<br />Bartender says:}}
"For you, no charge."
{{collapse bottom}}
[[User:Argento Surfer|Argento Surfer]] ([[User talk:Argento Surfer|talk]]) 16:48, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
*Bar jokes ''always'' remind me of Bernard Right-On. Considering the recent brouhaha it seems doubly appropriate somehow. I'd transcribe the joke in question here, but out of context it would undoubtedly cause some people fits of hand wringing/pearl clutching. For those who are intrigued, it's the opening joke to [https://youtube.com/watch?v=4kI-PHegT34 this performance]. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 17:22, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
:*Thank you so much for that link. [[John Thomson (comedian)|Sheer brilliance]]. Long before ''Cold Feet'' and "Jazz Club". "Errrmm... not necessarily the kitchen....a foundry, or an engineering plant... something like that." [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:33, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
:::That would be a brilliant caption for the (soon to be replaced) main image at [[Woman]]! Yeah, John's legendary. And coincidentally the spitting image of my friend, also called John and with a very similar and brilliant sense of humour, who died in 2018. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 20:16, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
----
How about this non-bar joke:
{{collapse top|title="We've just found out that my grandad's addicted to Viagra"<br />"Oh no! How's your grandma taking it?"}}
"Pretty hard"
{{collapse bottom}} <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 20:50, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
*Pardon me, but even on my talk page there are limits. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:26, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
----
It seems that "clever" has become a dirty word on Wikipedia. I haven't seen the word so denigrated since bullies used to use it against people when I was at school half a century ago. I would remind those who think that they are being fashionable by supporting anti-intellectual populism that that attitude is ''so'' 2019. [[User:Phil Bridger|Phil Bridger]] ([[User talk:Phil Bridger|talk]]) 19:58, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
:Arrgghhh. Don't [[Something Got Me Started|get me started]]. EEng is just too clever for his own good (especially in a place like this). It's a shame he's so witty, or most folk like me could just ignore him. But I'm not sure I'll ever see the day when he's "bullied". [[New Boots and Panties!!|ClevorTrever123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:26, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

[[File:Wikiegg.png|thumb|<small>"This year's [[Expert Knob Twiddlers|Jimbo Celebration Egg]] features a delicious layer of prefamulated amulite"<br>-- MRE123</small>]]

----
===Followup: A Quaker conversion?===
[[File:Salt,_sugar_and_pepper_shakers.jpg|thumb|left|upright=0.8|Or maybe a [[Shakers|shaker]].{{right|-[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]]}}]]

It suddenly occurs to me that maybe this whole ''tree'' thing was a transcription error: he wasn't saying ''tree'', he was saying ''thee''! [https://westernfriend.org/article/some-notes-quaker-speech He's become a Quaker]! That explains everything! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 10:47, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
:[[Populus tremuloides|It was both.]] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:58, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
::Good one. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:44, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

== And now for something completely different... ==

* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg The Expert]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mokllJ_Sz_g The Expert: Wrong Angle]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Kt7fRa2Wc The Expert: Progress Meeting]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w Any finally, this is what a '''real''' expert sounds like.]
--[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 03:04, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
*"One day" last year in [[Harry R. Lewis|my old advisor]]'s course on "Classic Papers in Computer Science", I took a few minutes to tell the class about how [[Konrad Zuse]] had invented an early [[retroencabulator]] but couldn't get funding to develop it before the war ended, sold the patents to Rockwell, competition from [[bubble memory]] eventually forced it off the market, etc etc and so on an so forth. Then I played the video (the last one on GM's list above). I had the pleasure of watching all the faces on Zoom as realization dawned. April Fools! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:29, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
*{{ec}} Funnily enough, 2 new versions of the retroencambulator sketch have showed up in my recommendations over the past week. I saw [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag the original] a few years ago and was amazed that no one fluffed their lines - not that you'd be able to tell without comparing! So the first thing I thought about when I read your post above was prefamulated amulite. (For the sake of completeness, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXW0bx_Ooq4 here's the other version].) <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 03:34, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
*:I find most of the me-too versions not so good, but I like this one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ILnWpi8XY] because Ms. Explainer comes across as genuine even if Mr. Introducer is somewhat wooden (although there's a certain charm there too). There's another one that's appeared recently -- quite extended with a lot of new material and a skilled pitchman -- but I can't find it now. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:36, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
*::Here is one without the annoying American accents.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m84IoMeo3qE] <sup><small>(...says the Guy who lives where the TMZ crosses the Orange Curtain...)</small></sup> "Fog to cloud, cloud to cloud, and cloud to cirrus cumulonimbus stratus cloud communications are available as standard!" --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 05:26, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
*:::That's it! That's the one! Oh, Guy, you idiot savants on the spectrum are so ''handy'' to have around! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:03, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
*::::If anyone doesn't quite understand any of those videos, I'd be more than happy to explain them. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:33, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
*:::::{{u|Serial Number 54129}}, please stop egging EEng on. <sup><small>[[User:SubjectiveNotability|SubjectiveNotability]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-12ex"><small>a [[User:GeneralNotability|GN]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:GeneralNotability|talk to the boss]]) 15:47, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

== Extended user ==
[[File:Theresiana-Leiter.jpg|thumb|upright=1|New procedure for generating "extended" users?]]
Hi EEng, would you be able to tell what exactly the "extended" refers to in "extended confirmed"? Much appreciated. Regards, [[User:Rui Gabriel Correia|Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia]] ([[User talk:Rui Gabriel Correia|talk]]) 00:35, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
:It means an editor has been registered 30 days and has at least 500 edits. Very occasionally, an article in a highly contentious topic area will be protected in such a way that only "extended confirmed" editors can edit it. See [[WP:Protection_policy#Extended_confirmed_protection]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:45, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
::Hi EEng. My apologies for the run-around; I should have been more clear. I know what it is and what it means; I am trying to understand the part about "extended". Someone is proposing creating a similar user group on the pt-wiki, and I suspect that the translation is completely wrong. In the meantime (after posting my questio to you), after reading many pages on the subject, I found this piece, which seems to shed some light - "Extending it even further like Pocketthis says ("You could make it 90/1000, and I'd be fine with it")", [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Extended_confirmed_protection_policy here]. So if I am reading it right, the "extension"/ "extended" refers to the '''''extended criteria''''' (longer [extended] period/ more [extended number of] edits) to be met to be allowed to edit. [[User:Rui Gabriel Correia|Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia]] ([[User talk:Rui Gabriel Correia|talk]]) 00:59, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
:::You're on the right track. In the sense used here, ''extended'' means "beyond/more than the basic criteria needed for confirmation" (the basic criteria being 4 days and 10 edits). My Brazilian boyfriend doesn't have the patience to teach me Pt but my guess is something along the lines of ''estendida/estendido'' or ''aumentada/aumentado'' or ''amplificar'' might work. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:30, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
::::Maravilha. Thanks for confirming. PS: We have something in common — Brazilian partners (I am Angolan). As for learning the language, my son started now on Duolingo, as a lockdown project, and he is very happy with it. He is actually doing sterlingly. Cumprimentos, [[User:Rui Gabriel Correia|Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia]] ([[User talk:Rui Gabriel Correia|talk]]) 01:39, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
:::::So now you know why my fellow editors sense that I teeter on the brink of madness. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:14, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
::::::Don't worry about that. None of us think that you are on the brink. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:27, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
:::::::You mean "none of us think<u>s</u> that you are on the brink". And you pretend you went to Harvard! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:00, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Period furniture. (IA periodfurniture00skar).pdf|thumb|left|upright|Look here for a Juan nightstand. --Tryptofish]]
::::::::You know, I hesitated for a long time before saving the edit, for that reason! But I did go there, and I also graduated. The way I see it, "''one'' thinks" is unquestionably correct, but it would also be common practice to say "none of them are here", and thus, "none think". On the other hand, one would say "no one thinks" and "none" is a contraction of "no one". This is one of those situations where the language is, well, degrading. So you are correct, but I'm more stylish. But in any case, we all think that you are well over the brink.
::::::::Which brings me to another bit of impertinence, or at least to ''wax'' poetic. You keep claiming that you have a Brazilian. But I'm skeptical. You do not strike me as the type who would go in for body waxing. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:26, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Not that I'm above recycling a joke myself, but you've made that crack before (search ''Brazilian'' on this page). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:59, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::Crumbs! You two. Like a [[Crack epidemic in the United States|crack]] comedy double act! Titter. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 11:42, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::{{facepalm}}. Sorry! I'm really slipping. Should I plead mental incompetence because I got my second Covid vaccine shot yesterday and am undoubtedly out of it, or should I plead mental incompetence because I'm just mentally incompetent? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:48, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Only your 2nd? Sounds like you're pleading for [[Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution|your 5th]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:15, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::::That's it! Thanks! Bartender, give me a [[Fifth (unit)|fifth]] of whatever Martin's drinking. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:19, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::[[Under the Table and Dreaming|**hic**]].... [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:39, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::I am ''not'' a [[Redneck|hick]]! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:44, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::Q. How many South Americans does it take to change a light bulb? A: A Brazillon. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:30, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Now, ''that'' was a close shave! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:32, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::Like the [[Burma-Shave|Burma boards]] (?) they just get closer... :
:::::::::::Q: Why did the Brazilian sign up for Tinder? A: For a Juan night stand. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:47, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
*YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:48, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
**<small><small>Well, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only irritable senior citizen here. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:37, 11 April 2021 (UTC)</small></small>

== Shirley, you must be joking ==

I'm having a hard time taking seriously the idea that you are taking ''NCDJ Disability Language Style Guide'' seriously.  It's waving red flags, on fire, right from the very start: "It covers almost 200 words and terms commonly used when referring to disability, most of which are not covered in The Associated Press style guide." It is not even faintly plausible that there are nearly 200 things about a single topic that ''AP Stylebook'' (used by something like 85% of American news publishers, and plenty in Canada and some other countries) is getting wrong or not noticing, and yet that these things are crucially important and we have to remember them, and use them conscientiously to write differently.  

This is basically a bunch of students and a few busybody professors at Arizona State U. trying to get in on the ''GLAAD Media Reference Guide'' (guess where so much of this constant trans-related drama is coming from?) act.  There's academic-activist career gold and influence to be mined in them-thar hills!  I won't even get into the specifics of why various entries in it are balderdash, at least from a [[WP:ENC]] and [[WP:NOT#NEWS]] and [[MOS:JARGON]] and [[WP:NPOV]] perspective.  It's more interesting to note that this is really an ''NYT'' "AP can go fuck itself" move. ''NYT'' has long published its own counter-to-AP style guide, but it has far less influence, and The New York Times Company doesn't like that. "The National Center on Disability and Journalism at Arizona State University is partnering with ''The New York Times'' to create a new fellowship program to enhance coverage of disability issues and people with disabilities."[https://ncdj.org/] I.e., ''NYT'' is bankrolling NCDJ and its language reformation advocacy, which right from its introduction is targeted specifically at shaming AP (and AP alone).  I would call bullshit, but the bullshit has buried me before I'm even on page 3, and I have sadly choked to death on it. This my ghost paying you a haunting visit. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 01:57, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
:Um, I think it's discussions are thoughtful and not preachy. As long as we don't tell people to apply it mindlessly (or let our local SJWs insist that others do so) I think it's a useful resource.{{pb}}BTW, I've been meaning to thank you for the email. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 10:08, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
:{{tps}} <small>Let's hope that's an upper case F where AP can go? But [[List of unusual deaths|what a way to go]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 10:17, 9 April 2021 (UTC) </small>
::<small>{{ping|Martinevans123}} That's an incredible article, I must say. I've only read through the 21st century section so far, vascillating between abject horror and dumbfounded amusement. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#AA9">design</b>]]</b> 00:24, 10 April 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::No, I did not mean [[Fugging, Upper Austria|the place in Austria]]. LOL. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 14:16, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
::Well, the whole problem is that our ultra-progressive activists absolutely will apply it mindlessly and insist that others do so. It's their m.o. on all such matters. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 14:16, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
:::Well I hope these help: [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=1017103524] [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1017104363]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:48, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
::::It's good to be clear that essays are essays, so thanks for that.  On the first edit, while the balancing effort is well-intended, it swallowing a spider to eat the fly we swallowed.  The root issue with adding external style guides to MoS and other internal pages is that it weakens MoS as a community consensus. It signals to editors that they can say "Screw MoS; I'm going to follow [my favorite organization]'s style guide instead, since WP is citing it internally as an authority."  We had a pretty severe level of disruption around that stuff several years ago – efforts to "source" the MoS, to denude it of consensus decisions that were compromises between competing off-site styles, and to try to change aspects of it to conform to someone's preferred off-site style guides (with, of course, lots of cherry-picking and OR regarding which ones to mention and claims about what they mean).  It had a great deal to do with why a certain editor was T-banned from a style quibble, then from MoS entirely, then blocked, then indeffed; and why MoS remains under discretionary sanctions the only WP-internal subject that is); and why two MfDs back to back got rid of attempts to use lists of off-site style sources and threads about them as "lobbying" leverage to change MoS to suit various people's socio-politicized style agendas.  It was mostly nationalism in that case, but that's irrelevant; it's the same "Do it [my favorite organization]'s way, or else" putsch.<!--
--><p>MoS and other guidelines should not be referring people to off-site style manuals other than as citations for technical (but actual) MoS rules, e.g. WCAG in accessibility, some ISO and other standards at MOS:NUM; and in providing examples or background explanation of things that are in fact already MoS rules; and in a very general "how to write English properly" way for all the basics MoS doesn't cover.  What's happening here is the community is declining to have MoS provide a rule because there's no consensus to impose one (much less a consensus on what it should say), so the off-site style guide links are effectively an end-run around that, to impose the rule by external [[argument to authority]] (laced with some degree of [[appeal to emotion]], at that).</p><!--
--><p>This is all I'll say on the matter for now.  At the first hint of trouble of the kind of campaigning and wedge-driving sort I've hinted at, I'm reverting all those external links, though.  It would be more appropriate to have them in an article, e.g. on person-first writing, or English-language reform activism, or whatever.  For MoS purposes, these things belong discussed on talk pages as part of the consensus-formation process, not jammed into the page as wanna-be "alternatives to the consensus".<br /><span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 16:30, 16 April 2021 (UTC)</p>
:::::+1. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 17:09, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

== Precious anniversary ==
{{User QAIbox/auto|years=Eight}}
{{stack|[[File:Makovsky_uznuk.jpg|thumb|upright=0.8|Only eight years? It seems like a lifetime.]]}}
on Earth Day --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 08:13, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
*I'll go out and burn some fossil fuels to celebrate. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:42, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
*: I went out and counted flowering plants, 32, one I had not seen in my whole life, German [[:File:Pestwurz (2).JPG|Pestwurz]], English [[Petasites hybridus]]. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 18:58, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
*:Or why not go out and destroy some random [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfaFgZ0z3aA solar panels]?? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:22, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

== Santos Dumont ==

Hello! I just saw your last message on the Santos Dumont article discussion and I'd like to bring the discussion her, if I may:

I took a long time working in the Portuguese article (that currently is featured thanks to my and more editors efforts) and articles like [[João Goulart]] (this one was hard, since it needed expansion in both languages and I had to cheat my way with Deepl). On the [[Santos Dumont (miniseries)|HBO work]], did you found time to watch? It seems really close with his history (considering all the time contracting due the small number of episodes) but of course, I can't suggest it as a source. But is really well made, some moments are directly brought from his books and all the crew had to master French, English and Spanish. I just waved a little of the [https://portal.cbpf.br/downloads/divulgacao-cientifica/livros/SantosDumont.pdf Portuguese] version from [https://portal.cbpf.br/downloads/divulgacao-cientifica/livros/SantosDumont_English.pdf this] source in the original article and tomorrow I will start with [http://www.sportsinbrazil.com.br/livros/santos_dumont_heroi_olimpico_brasil.pdf this] bilingual work.

I don't know how to deal with the English article thanks to the "heavier than air" subject: personally I like the interpretation that the airplane had "several fathers" or paraphrasing a talk that Dumont had with Edison: "this science have so many contributors that how I could invent and patent anything for real?" --in "O que eu vi..." (1918) Dumont even highlighted that the new generation should learn about the researchers that came before his generation and died while pursuing the dream of flight. I understand that the US aviation industry took some time to take off due some legal issues, while the "open source" Demoiselle made the European industries advanced quite fast. 

But anyway, Santos Dumont, together with Ayrton Senna, is such an object of national proundness here in Brazil (even if just a few bothers to learn about their history) that the article could turn into a "editions war" quite fast ---and today we really need something to be proud of...

Seems that two of the works in your collection is up on Internet Archive, what is great to references: [https://archive.org/details/wingsofmadnessal0000hoff Wings of Madness] and [https://archive.org/details/manfliesstoryofa0000wint Man Flies].

Thanks, [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 01:29, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
:This is probably the third or fourth time I've had to apologize for having made no progress at all on this, though I continue to be determined to make the English Wikipedia article as good as can be. He's a wonderful figure and deserves to be fully recognized. It's going to be a huge project, though, and I'll need to devote six months to it, which right now I just don't have. Clearly there are conflicts among the sources, and many (including most of the newest ones) are in Portuguese, which I neither speak nor read. Maybe I'm crazy to think I can take this on. But perhaps together we can ... when I find the time.
:I haven't looked at the HBO special, because I assumed it's in Portuguese only. Is it in available in English as well, or with English subtitles? It's looks like an excellent production. 
:I am ''very'' impressed with the pt.wiki article{{snd}}so much new material, so many excellent photos! But I'm confused. One of the photo captions refers to two men as "great-grandchildren of Santos Dumont". Did he have children??? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:30, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
::{{Re|EEng}} Is okay! I completely agree that he deserves to be more recognized and the Portuguese language sources are an interesting case because many biographies are criticized for its lack of historical care. The first work to be acknowledged as complete is "Wings of Madness", but it also raised controversy on the representation of Santos-Dumont sexuality --it isn't a consensus among the researchers. On the links above, [https://portal.cbpf.br/downloads/divulgacao-cientifica/livros/SantosDumont_English.pdf this one] is mere 24 pages and the English side of [http://www.sportsinbrazil.com.br/livros/santos_dumont_heroi_olimpico_brasil.pdf this one] is about 18. Other thing to do, maybe, would try to find English articles ([http://www.jatm.com.br/papers/vol4_n3/JATMv4n3_p355-380_Open_Source_Philosophy_and_the_Dawn_of_Aviation.html like this]) and newspapers from the time, since Santos was a pretty public figure in Europe.
::The HBO production was filmed in Portuguese (scenes in Brazil), French (scenes in Paris), some dialogues in Spanish, European Portuguese and in English (scenes set in England and US), but is seems that they completely dubbed [https://www.amazon.com/Santos-Dumont-Season-1/dp/B0816B92QL the series] in English, what is quite sad, since the actors worked so hard to master these languages.
::Well, thanks! I think you mistranslated: the term is [[:wiktionary:pt:sobrinho-bisneto|"sobrinho-bisneto"]], something like as "newphew-grandcrildren", the grandchildren from his brothers and/or sisters.
::Do you know any English language publisher and/or translator who might be interested on Santos public domain work? It seems that only My Airships received an English edition, while "O Que Eu Vi, O que Nós Veremos" never got any translations. Thanks, [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 14:07, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
:::{{tq|"sobrinho-bisneto", something like as "newphew-grandcrildren"}}{{snd}}My fault for using Google Translate. In English these are called ''[https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=230 collateral descendents]''. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:17, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
::::{{Re|EEng}} I translated the legend in the [[:commons:File:Sobrinhossantosdumont.jpg|image]] with this term. Is possible to watch the series there? 6, 50 minutes episodes. On the Wikipedia article, I think that it would need to be redone from start (is easier to retranslate than just reference what is in the article). I might attempt to bring this to any Aviation community on the Portuguese Wikipedia on this subject, because the language barrier is a problem --but your collection might also have something of interest to the Portuguese article. [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 02:42, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
:::::The guy on the left is ''definitely'' related to S-D: [[File:Sobrinhossantosdumont.jpg|frameless|upright=1.3]]. I guess those droopy eyes run in the family. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:10, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
{{Re|EEng}}, well, Dumont's mother [[:commons:File:Francisca de Paula - Mãe de Santos Dumont - 1-13797-0000-0000, Acervo do Museu Paulista da USP.jpg|had this tired expression]], while [[Henrique Dumont|his father]]... [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 19:36, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
:{{Re|EEng}}, since I recently finished the "Olympic Hero" book, I brought the subject about the English article in the [[:pt:Wikipédia_Discussão:Projetos/Aviação#Santos_Dumont_em_Inglês|WikiProject Aviation]] in the pt.wiki - is a good place to add your opinion and there's no problem if you write in English. [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 20:54, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
;September
{{Re|EEng}} hi again! Few days ago I found this rare [[:commons:File:Santos-Dumont discursando.webm|audio and video]] footage during an award ceremony in France (receiving the National Order of the Legion of Honour). Sadly the quality isn't great and should be quite hard to find the original film - I uploaded here, on Internet Archive and Youtube due it's historical importance (probably the only recording of his voice) and it seems to be in public domain since the 1980s. I'm working a little more in the Portuguese article ([[Henrique Lins de Barros]] wrote a lot about him and his articles are online/creative commons) and I think that the only way for the English version is to translate from PT with DeepL like what I did with the far less known [[Luís Gama]]. I don't want to turn the article in a edit warring like it was in the past, but the Portuguese version already developed so much about his life and work...  Cheers, [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 01:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
:What tremendous work you're doing! And just by coincidence, I went to the library Saturday for the first time in almost two years (because ... you know) and renewed all my Santos Dumont books. And I thought of you! Now remind me -- what was the edit war? Just send me a link to the discussion or a diff to the start of the edits, or something. I'm very ''very'' busy and won't be editing much for another month, maybe, but at some point we'll use what you've done at PT to improve the article here at EN. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[Usertalk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:14, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
:{{Re|EEng}} Hi, thanks!!! Since I didn't want to let the article die, I [[Wikipedia:Be bold|Boldly]] translated the entirety of the Portuguese page to English ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alberto_Santos-Dumont&type=revision&diff=1043980434&oldid=1041675377 diff]). I know that the articles aren't supposed to be replicas from each other, the the PT version was so developed that I just went for it even if it was tiring and kind of hurt my fingers hahaha - everything that the English version had, the Portuguese had with more information and sources. 
:On the edit war: it probably was a thing from [[Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Alberto Santos-Dumont/1|years ago]], but is on "Dumont vs Wright Brothers" discussion - I personally think that his discussion is quite boring, because everyone only thinks about this and never learns who Dumont really was (but I believe that I managed to source everything on this matter). 
:Now, with the updates/translation, I've finished with 310 inline citations and 53 footnotes explaining/giving context. On the books books, good! I think that would be necessary to link "{{Sfn|Hoffman|" ("Wings of Madness") on the English version and do the same with the English language part of [http://www.sportsinbrazil.com.br/livros/santos_dumont_heroi_olimpico_brasil.pdf Olympic hero] book. By now, only the article [https://www.scielo.br/j/jatm/a/fm5rHfPytnMCytJ9mCGG5hv/?format=pdf&lang=en Open Source Philosophy and the Dawn of Aviation] is completely in English - and gives some contrast on the development of aeronautics in the US and Europe ("patent and monetize everything" vs "open source and "steals" anything that could be useful for your project"). I'm only worried if happens to someone revert everything, but I have the work saved offline. 
:I even brought the [[:s:pt:Certidão de Óbito de Alberto Santos Dumont|death certificate]] (it was adulterated to occult his suicide) to the Wikisource and I'm transcribing this [[:s:pt:Galeria:Santos Dumont - o vôo que mudou a história da aviação.pdf|Cc-by-3.0 article]] by [[Henrique Lins de Barros]] - his research is superb, but I think that only this [https://web.archive.org/web/20210427013011/https://portal.cbpf.br/downloads/divulgacao-cientifica/livros/SantosDumont_English.pdf really short book] is available in English (in another article Barros gives a lot of good motives of why Dumont should be thought as an scientist - but we just don't think about him in this way even if he was brillant). 
:On a final note, [[Neil deGrasse Tyson]] even praised him in a [https://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/letters/2020-09-10-letter-to-brazil.php Letter to Brazil] in the Brazilian Portuguese version of Letters From an Astrophysicist. Thanks, [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 01:08, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
::Some days ago I also converted the [[List of Santos-Dumont aircraft]] into a table. Could you see if in your books if there any image from the ''Amérique''? And in there are, could digitize it and send to Commons? Could you also look for any reference to the ''Fatum'' balloon? A few Portuguese language sources says that Santos Dumont designed it as a passing note, but I couldn't find it in any more reliable source - only that he flew 3 times on it according this [http://www.cabangu.com.br/pai_da_aviacao/1-cronol/1901-01-1901-06.htm Cronology]. The cabangu website have a lot of public domain images from SD (much supplied by his family) and I have already sent some to Commons. [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 03:13, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
:::Well it's just terrific what you're doing. Still, though, I'm very very busy. Here's what I have on the shelf for when I get to this:
:::*Alberto Santos-Dumont / texto de Henrique Lins de Barros. Barros, Henrique Lins de.
:::*Desafio de voar : brasileiros e a conquista do ar, 1709-1914  Henrique Lins de Barros.
:::*Santos-Dumont, "o pai de aviação." Villares, Henrique Dumont.
:::*Santos-Dumont and the conquest of the air, tr. by Luiz Victor Le Cocq d'Oliveira. Napoleão, Aluízio, 1914-
:::*My airships; the story of my life. With a new introd. by Sir Peter Wykeham. Santos-Dumont, Alberto, 1873-1932
:::*Man flies : the story of Alberto Santos-Dumont, master of the balloon, conqueror of the air / Nancy Winters.
:::*Wings of madness : Alberto Santos-Dumont and the invention of flight / Paul Hoffman.
:::*Santos-Dumont; a study in obsession. Wykeham, Peter.
:::*Santos Dumont, inventor  Barbosa, Francisco de Assis, 1914-
:::(I don't read Pt but my boyfriend's Brazilian.) When the time comes there may be photos in some of those, and in fact there are many, many books on S-D that I have access to which aren't listed above because they're in Pt -- but I could still look through them for images. Also, I recently ran into ''THE CONQUEST OF THE AIR: THE SANTOS-DUMONT AEROPLANE. Lees, Frederic. The Pall mall magazine, May 1893-Sept. 1914; London Vol. 39, Iss. 166, (Feb 1907): 130-134'', which has a lot of good images. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:29, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
::::::Man flies? Is that a fashion statement? (Now you can tell me to zip it.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:04, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
:::::{{Re|EEng}}, thanks! Well, I would love to read these books. By the sinopise, "Desafio de voar : brasileiros e a conquista do ar" is not just about Santos Dumont, but about all Brazilians who took part in the aeronautics development since [[Bartolomeu de Gusmão]] (who may be the first in recorded history to demonstrate a small scale hot air balloon model back in 1700s - at least from where the mostly authoritative sources goes (the legend says that he flew before the [[Montgolfier brothers]], but there's no evidence to back this up)) until early 20th century. My Airships is the same in [[:s:en:My Airships|Wikisource]]. The article already connects with the Portuguese translation (non Public Domain, since the translator only died in the 1960s), but would be interesting to link the "Sfn" with the English version. The "Santos-Dumont; a study in obsession" was used as a source before I sent my translation, but only in a general way in moments cited by several sources - but the title is intriguing. The Nancy Winters work is in on Internet Archive.
:::::If possible, could you ask for your boyfriend to read some of these books? I believe that they could also be quite useful in the Portuguese article. 
:::::Since ''THE CONQUEST OF THE AIR: THE SANTOS-DUMONT AEROPLANE.'' is public domain and just 4 pages, there's any way for you to digitize it and send to Wikisource? On the images: the list only needs are one for the ''Amérique'' and ''Nº17''. 
:::::For now I will only foccus on the Wikisource article. I read so much to develop the article and to translate it, that my mind needs to take a little "vacation" from this subject haha 
:::::Finally, I hope to find a way for the Wikisource community to translate Dumont's [[:s:pt:O que eu vi, o que nós veremos|2th book]] and [[:s:pt:Galeria:Santos Dumont - o vôo que mudou a história da aviação.pdf|Barros article]] to English and maybe French - that would help to make these works more accessible. 
:::::Thanks, [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 14:42, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
::::::The strength of our relationship (my boyfriend and mine, I mean) is division of responsibility: I haunt the library and write the Wikipedia articles, he scouts the farmer's marked and makes the moqueca. I could get him to sit still long enough to skim something for its general sense, but that's probably about it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:11, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

== Huh ==

A trademark is a part of intellectual property, but it is not copyright. You can indicate trademark using {{tl|Trademark}} if you want. But it being trademarked does not make it non-free from our point of view, otherwise we would consider images like our [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg|own logo]] (and derivatives thereof) as non-free. <span style="background:-webkit-radial-gradient(red,blue);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">[[User:Dylsss|Dylsss]]<sup><span style="font-size:85%;">([[User talk:Dylsss|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Dylsss|contribs]])</span></sup></span> 18:08, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
See also [[c:Commons:Non-copyright_restrictions#Trademark_law]] and [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Trademarks#Use of graphic logos]] <span style="background:-webkit-radial-gradient(red,blue);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">[[User:Dylsss|Dylsss]]<sup><span style="font-size:85%;">([[User talk:Dylsss|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Dylsss|contribs]])</span></sup></span> 18:33, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
:Since I'm a retired intellectual property consultant I don't need any tutorials on the legalities, and I'm fairly well versed in WP's policies in this area as well; what I don't invest my time in is the minutiae of all our little licensing and permissions templates. But I know for sure that presenting the file (as you have) as simply CC-licensed, with no mention of the trademark status, is utterly inappropriate. Feel free to tinker with the templates about copyright or free/nonfree status to your heart's content, as long as the trademark status is acknowledged. While you're deciding what you want to do along those lines I've restored the current licensing. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:21, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
::{{done}} then. <span style="background:-webkit-radial-gradient(red,blue);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">[[User:Dylsss|Dylsss]]<sup><span style="font-size:85%;">([[User talk:Dylsss|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Dylsss|contribs]])</span></sup></span> 19:27, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
::::Beautiful. And without resort to violence! We should notify the media. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:31, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

== Giants! ==

Look at this photo:[https://twitter.com/CarterCenter/status/1389400596004970501][https://twitter.com/CarterCenter/status/1389400596004970501/photo/1] Look at the size of the Bidens compared to the Carters... --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 16:57, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
:Coming soon to a theater near you! The next great action blockbuster! ''The Incredible Shrinking President'' Or ''The Incredible Gigantic President''
:But if I could shrink former Presidents, or even shrink them down to non-existence, I'd definitely make other choices. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:00, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
:::Ooh, yeah.  I would enlarge a recent one so much that he collapsed into a quivvering, oozing mass under the weight of his own blubber. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 07:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
::Our distinguished visitors refer to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1021359129&oldid=1021343629]. After all, who doesn't love a huge dick? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:47, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
:::My wife once asked me why I've never sent her a dick pic. I promptly sent her a photo of me giving my son a noogie. She doesn't ask me anymore. <small>Which is good because the wide angle lens on my phone isn't wide angle enough.</small> <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 20:03, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
::::EEng, get off your lawn! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:11, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

== Viruses have feelings too! ==

Re: ''"I don't think viruses have emotional attachment sufficient for them to feel spurned"'',[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3ANovem_Linguae%2FEssays%2FThere_was_no_lab_leak&type=revision&diff=1021945204&oldid=1021909258] what about '''[https://xkcd.com/2455/ THIS]'''? --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 16:49, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
:Lucky for me the [[meta:Universal_Code_of_Conduct|UCOC]] doesn't consider viruses a protected class or we'd be at ANI right now discussing my 27th block. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:07, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
::Lest anyone forget, when someone asks to be called "tree" in a single Instagram video from 3 years ago then goes right back to "he" and "him" in all of their published work, not honoring that request will get you warned, and actually commenting on whether the request was serious will get you blocked. See [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1062#EEng ridiculing a BLP who may use neopronouns]]. :( --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 17:53, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
:::Spurn the [[spike protein]]. Or maybe spike the spurn protein. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:07, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

*Apropos nothing, POSA{{refn|"Principle of Some Astonishment"}} fans who don't have it watchlisted may enjoy the most recent addition there: [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1021819069]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:20, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
:*EEng gives the best head. Tryptofish, get off EEng's lawn. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:31, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
::*I put "spike" into the WP search box, and found [[Spike Chunsoft]], which sure sounds like something that, it turns out, it isn't. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:35, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

== Well, at least they have their priorities straight! ==

* [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56978075 A seaside town in Japan has raised eyebrows after it used funding from an emergency Covid-19 relief grant to build a giant statue of a squid.] --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 02:12, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

==DYK for Arrest of Karen Garner==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2021/May#16 May 2021|16 May 2021]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Arrest of Karen Garner]]''''', which you recently nominated. The fact was ''... that a Colorado policeman laughingly told coworkers "Ready for the pop?&nbsp;... I think it was her shoulder" as they watched footage of '''[[Arrest of Karen Garner|a handcuffed 73-year-old being forced to the ground and hogtied]]'''?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Arrest of Karen Garner]]. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2021-05-06&end=2021-05-26&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Arrest_of_Karen_Garner Arrest of Karen Garner])</small>, and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]]. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 00:02, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

*Wow, that got over 20K [https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Arrest_of_Karen_Garner views]! That's huge for a non-image slot. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 12:53, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
*:Thus proving once again that despite getting little respect, hookers perform a socially valuable service. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:54, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
*::In fact, EEng has been a hooker for a surprising number of notable people. The stories he could tell! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:35, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
*:::I was even a hooker for Donald Trump -- [[User:EEng#dyk|twice!]] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:24, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
*::::You should get him to pay you off with campaign funds, to keep it a secret. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 16:11, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
*:::::[[Talk:A719 road|Trump hooks get everywhere]]. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 17:33, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
*::::::Oops, three times. I'm not the only hooker to mention that Trump was very forgettable. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

----

*E, would you be up for [[Killing of Ronald Greene|another]] copy edit and possible hook? [[User:Levivich|Levivich]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Levivich|harass]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contribs/Levivich|hound]]</sub> 04:52, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
*:Will a {{tps}} with DYK experience be so kind as to review [[:Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Death_of_Ronald_Greene]]? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:34, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
*::It's a trick. When one goes to the DYK review, it says to hold off on reviewing it. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:18, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
*:::Thank your for volunteering. Watching the news last night I thought of an even better hook, but I'm waiting for that lazy bum {{U|Levivich}} to get the needed sourcing into the article; thus the request for delay. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:01, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
*::::Thank your for [[Shanghaiing|volunteering]] ''me''! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:22, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
===DYK nomination of Death of Ronald Greene===
[[File:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Death of Ronald Greene]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified: primarily a lack of blather control in the hook. Please review the comment(s) at '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Death of Ronald Greene|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:15, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
:Note to self: remember for future reference that EEng thinks that a good hooker will haggle and haggle and haggle and then leave you tired and fucked. And endlessly insist on talking about shit. And thinks that if he says he "wants it all", he'll get it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ADid_you_know_nominations%2FDeath_of_Ronald_Greene&type=revision&diff=1025511415&oldid=1025503895] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:00, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
:Just occurred to me: that's a similarity in personality style to [[:Donald Trump|someone else]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:04, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
:EEng: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know/Preparation_area_3&curid=25774595&diff=1027236244&oldid=1027078400 FYI]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:18, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
::I added a hidden comment. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 22:37, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Valereee}} You're the best! I truly mean it! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:26, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
::::You told me ''I'm'' the best! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:28, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::No. I was talking to you, and I said "I'm the best." --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:32, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
::::I'm a peach, for sure. ;) Anyone can add a hidden comment in prep to make sure anyone considering future changes sees there's been discussion. Previous discussion is really hard to find at DYK. Even DYK regulars forget to check the nom and talk, and many regulars at ERRORS don't even know how to find those discussions or that pinging the nom is, like, really helpful. If I had any tech skillz I'd figure out how to make it easy to ping the nom at any point. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 03:16, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::In the other direction, I've often thought that it would help a LOT if prep builders, as they close a nomination discussion, would ''link'' (not just name) the prep set, so the nominator can easily watchlist it and thereby keep aware of any adjustments to the hook while it's in prep. Same would go as the prep is moved to Q: give the link so those interested in continuing to follow their hook. Since you're still active at DYK maybe you could suggest these practices. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:08, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::oh, good idea! I'll try to remember to do that! [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 09:44, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::::And after all that, see what happened. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know&curid=1659622&diff=1027419964&oldid=1027382559] ''Sigh.'' --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:32, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::::I figured "were listed as something that was violated?" was going to attract attention, that's why I added the hidden. The problem is that a lot of folks are just going to look at that construction and think it needs correcting, and others are going to recognize that construction as sardonic editorial commentary and object on those grounds.  [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 21:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Even though I helped write it, those things were on my mind, too. Well, I'm gonna leave it to EEng. He wanted the "shit" quote to be in there no matter what, and it would have been so much easier without it. In any case, the new version is well-written, much better than what we had before, as long as nobody cares about accuracy. After all, when did Wikipedia care about ''that''? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:59, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Well we're talking about DYK, after all. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:13, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::Yeah, hang out with hookers, and get what you deserve. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:23, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

== Phineas Gage in the news(letter) ==

Hello, EEng! I thought you might find this [https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/history/phineas-gage-neuroscience-and-count-dracula item] by [[Joe Schwarcz]], connecting Gage to ''Dracula'' via [[David Ferrier]], to be of some interest.—[[User:Odysseus1479|Odysseus]][[User talk:Odysseus1479|'''<span style="color:#6A5ACD">1</span><span style="color:#9400D3">4</span><span style="color:purple">7</span>''']][[Special:Contributions/Odysseus1479|'''<span style="color:maroon">9</span>''']] 20:49, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
:It's funny how some religious people think that if you denounce the soul as mythical, effectively 'removing' it, you'll turn into some sort of monster. Even today there are lots of devout Christians who believe that people without religion have no morals, as if the only thing keeping them from immorality is the fear of God's wrath. Notwithstanding the fact that there are many social animals that display moral judgment. The [[Golden Rule]] is pretty straightforward. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#BBA">design</b>]]</b> 21:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
::It was interesting reading. The connection from Gage to [[David Ferrier]] is an interesting one (maybe worth adding to the page(s)), although I think that the connection from Gage (the impalee) to Vlad (the impaler) is a stretch. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:34, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
:::{{tq|maybe worth adding to the page(s)}}{{snd}}Surely you don't think I missed that -- see [[Phineas_Gage#Theoretical_misuse]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:56, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
::::(1) Don't call me Shirley. (2) You expect me to read that thing? Shirley, you jest! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:16, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::Seriously, I do like to think that, after all those years you and I and others spent hashing it out, the Gage article is something like 99{{nbsp}}44/100% comprehensive; while one can never be certain just how much ''detail'' should be included on any one particular point, it seems hard to conceive that there's any relevant point that isn't at least touched upon, with pointers to where the reader can learn more if he wants. As one reviewer wrote about Macmillan's book: "... provides one of those rare occasions on which one can truly say that further research is not necessary."  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
::{{u|Nagualdesign}}, but the fear of God's wrath ''is'' the only thing keeping devout Christians from turning into some sort of monster, right? {{smiley|;)}} — <span style="color:#e08020">Alexis Jazz</span> ([[User talk:Alexis Jazz|talk]] or ping me) 22:51, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
:::Seems that way. ''shudders'' <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#BBA">design</b>]]</b> 03:03, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
::::To be fair, {{Reply|Nagualdesign|p=,}} Christianity is scarcely unique in that respect—although it and Islam seem to put a peculiar emphasis on belief. AFAICT most other religions are mainly interested in regulating behaviour, leaving what’s in one’s [[Maat#Weighing of the Heart|heart of hearts]] to be judged at [https://genius.com/Jethro-tull-two-fingers-lyrics the Weighing-In] (whatever form that is conceived to take). And while I’m a fan of the Golden Rule it has its limitations, insofar as our understanding of even our own desires—let alone others’—is imperfect.—[[User:Odysseus1479|Odysseus]][[User talk:Odysseus1479|'''<span style="color:#6A5ACD">1</span><span style="color:#9400D3">4</span><span style="color:purple">7</span>''']][[Special:Contributions/Odysseus1479|'''<span style="color:maroon">9</span>''']] 02:34, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

*Thanks for bringing this to my attention. What I never get over is how many articles (including this one) are ''clearly'' based on the WP article and/or Macmillan's ''Odd Kind of Fame'', and yet nonetheless say stuff both those sources go to pains to falsify:
**Gage was not laying track, just preparing the roadbed.
**The "recording the event in his notebook" incident is probably fiction.
**Not ''Boston Medical Surgery Journal'' but ''Boston Medical & Surgical Journal'' (a nitpick I realize, but I'm in the mood).
**I know of no evidence that Gage "inspired" Ferrier's localization experiments.
**Ferrier experimented on monkey and dog brains, not human brains.
**[[Phineas_Gage#New_England_and_New_York_(1849–1852)|Not Barnum’s circus. Not Barnum’s circus. Not Barnum’s circus. Not Barnum’s circus, goddam it!]]
:For those who are wondering, Bram Stoker's reference to [[David Ferrier]] is likely (IMHO) simply due to Ferrier's notoriety as a vivisectionist; in the same breath he mentions [[Burdon-Sanderson]], who was well known to the public for exactly the same thing.{{pb}}Some years ago I spent a full week in London trying to find Ferrier's papers. I even tracked down the lawyers who had handled his estate. No luck, dammit. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:46, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

== DS 2021 Review Update ==

Dear EEng,

Thank you for participating in the recent [[WP:DS2021/CC|discretionary sanctions community consultation]]. We are truly appreciative of the range of feedback we received and the high quality discussion which occurred during the process. We have now posted a [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/2021 review/Consultation#close|summary]] of the feedback we've received and also a preview of some of what we expect to happen next. We hope that the second phase, a presentation of draft recommendations, will proceed on time in June or early July. You will be notified when this phase begins, unless you choose to to opt-out of future mailings by removing your name [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/2021 review/Update list|here]]. 
<br>--[[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] &  [[User:L235|KevinL]] (aka L235) 21:05, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Barkeep49@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions/2021_review/Update_list&oldid=1024052917 -->
*Naturally my contribution [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1015241566] was of the usual high caliber and insightfulness one can always expect from me. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:41, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
*:With all those pearls you're constantly handing out it's no wonder that so many people tend to clutch theirs whenever you're around. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#BBA">design</b>]]</b> 23:07, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
*::I've heard it's the family jewels people tend to be concerned about. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:22, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

== [[WP:ANI]] ==

[[File:Latte art cappuccino.jpg|thumb|right|200px]]
You somehow managed to be snarky to me, and be educational, ''and'' make me smile all at once in just a few words. In my world, you have earned this token of appreciation. [[Special:Contributions/92.24.246.11|92.24.246.11]] ([[User talk:92.24.246.11|talk]]) 17:01, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
::''Our visitor refers to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=1024188934]''
:Like they say, you can always tell a Harvard man. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:25, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
::'''As''' they say. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:13, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
:::Like I didn't know that. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:11, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Facebook like-hang-tag.jpg|thumb|upright|left|''[[As You Like It]]'']]
::::Did you know... that EEng didn't know that? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:36, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
::<small><small>You can always tell a Harvard fish, but you can't tell lawnmower much. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:25, 20 May 2021 (UTC)</small></small>
:::I'm not a great fan of comma splices. Nothing wrong with sentence fragments in any but the most formal writing. [[User:Phil Bridger|Phil Bridger]] ([[User talk:Phil Bridger|talk]]) 18:32, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
::::I love forbidden punctuation. It makes everything funnier.  [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 19:53, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::True comedians love the forbidden, the politically incorrect, tragedy ... my [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axiysD3M4RQ latest favorite series.] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 20:13, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

== Removing the colloquial tag from the article [[Lobotomy]] ==

EEng, if I had the capacity to fix the colloquial language present in that article, I would have done so. However, as I do not, my next best option was to tag it, so that someone else who does have the capacity to fix it would be more likely to notice and resolve it. Unfortunately, before that could occur, you removed the tag without fixing the colloquial language. I've recently been accused of tag-bombing, so noticing you had removed this tag a while ago in my contributions list was a little frustrating, to say the least. Why would I tag something if I could fix it? I didn't add it for fun. I'm re-adding the tag; please don't remove it again unless you're fixing it, or unless someone else fixes it but doesn't remove the tag. Thanks. [[User:DesertPipeline|DesertPipeline]] ([[User talk:DesertPipeline|talk]]) 13:30, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
:I have no idea what colloquial language you're referring to, nor apparently does another editor who just removed the tag again. There's a {{t|Colloquialism}} tag you can add inline so others will know what you're talking about. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:36, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
::I think I'm being hounded at this point. That person who removed the tag after you seems to be following me around. I should have added a hidden comment tagging every colloquialism along with having the banner template, but I forgot to do that. Now I don't really have the motivation, so I'm going to leave it alone. [[User:DesertPipeline|DesertPipeline]] ([[User talk:DesertPipeline|talk]]) 03:45, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
:::You are not being [[WP:HOUND]]ed. {{U|David Eppstein}} is a highly experienced editor and a nice guy to boot, and he's trying (as am I) to guide you onto the right path. He no doubt saw your post here and went to see what the issue was. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:51, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
::::Also, I happened to have [[lobotomy]] on my watchlist and found your edits that way. I did not have [[raft]] already watchlisted, but it is not unusual, when I see an editor being mistaken in a particular way, to check whether they might have been similarly mistaken elsewhere recently. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 05:40, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::As long as you don't have lobotomy on your bucket list. That would be weird. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:47, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::I wonder if they dump the removed lobe into a bucket. Sort of like a localized guillotining. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:29, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

==MfD nomination of [[:Wikipedia:Editors who may be confused]]==
[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|30px]] [[:Wikipedia:Editors who may be confused]], a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for [[WP:MfD|deletion]]. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Editors who may be confused&#32; (2nd nomination)]] and please be sure to [[WP:SIG|sign your comments]] with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). You are free to edit the content of [[:Wikipedia:Editors who may be confused]] during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you.<!-- Template:MFDWarning --> [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 01:05, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

===On the MFD===
Hello EEng,

Figured I'd take it up over here rather than sidetrack the MFD.  Apologies if this got heated on the "Editors who are confused page" - I certainly didn't care one way or the other about that page when I first was pinged a year or so ago.  That said, my removal wasn't trolling.  Like I said in my edit summaries, I simply don't believe that ''any'' of those editors are likely to be actually confused, in the same way that a line claiming EEng and Jimbo Wales are likely to be confused should probably be removed.  If this is just a free-floating anything-goes list, then removals can be just as justified as additions; I just focused on myself for obvious reasons.  That edit was enforcing the standard the list seems to want to create.  

Needless to say, I was giving some severe side-eye to your comments in the MFD because of your comment for BilCat's original point - yes, it was technically correct, but it wasn't helping matters when you knew exactly what BilCat was talking about.  Just clarify the matter if something comes up like that in the future - "Yes, I reverted your removal, but I didn't do it repeatedly and would have let the matter rest once you re-reverted" or the like would have been fine.  Having the demand for diffs, followed by me checking the history and boggling at it, was why I bothered to clean things out in the first place - it felt like you'd tricked me into looking into a matter that you already knew the answer to.  It wasn't a win-friends-and-influence people move.  That said, whatever.  I just figured I'd explain it out from my side.

This might sound odd given my delete vote, but I'll also add that I do appreciate your work in defending humor on Wikipedia, so please keep that up.  I'm a fan of humorous content being kept and celebrated on Wikipedia - if I was god-emperor, we'd still be doing even sillier main pages on April Fool's Day and the like.  That said, I also firmly believe that any humorous content should not get even remotely close to attacks on editors, nationalism, religion, or other hot-button topics, which unfortunately the current form of that page seems to violate.  I'd hope that you don't even revert once, no questions asked, if you see any future removals of editors on that page - whatever, just let it go, it doesn't have to be an exhaustive list.  [[User:SnowFire|SnowFire]] ([[User talk:SnowFire|talk]]) 05:21, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
:BilCat asserted that I'd {{tq|repeatedly added users who've removed themselves}}, and I knew that wasn't true. There was one user (singular -- i.e. BilCat himself) who got re-added once (not repeatedly), and that's it. When someone makes a behavior accusation it's normal to expect/demand diffs. I assumed he'd go get the one diff, and then admit that there really was just the one. The only trouble with that very fine plan being, of course, that I promptly went and accidentally re-added you too, which kind of spoiled the whole effect.
:I never thought you were trolling. You mis-parsed something I said as implying that -- see my explanation over at the MfD.
:Thank you for your kind words at the end there. Now what are we going to do about DesertPipeline? I really feel bad for him/her, but he's just not getting it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:46, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

== [[WP:Don't call it "Wiki"]] ==
{{User notwiki}}
[[File:Blue plate special sign.jpg|thumb|upright|[[Brass in Pocket|''I'm special. So special.'']] --Tryptofish]]
So, am I in trouble for when I refer to "en-wiki"? Should I change it to "eng-wiki"? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:06, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
:Oh, and I want to give you [[:Template:The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar|''this'']]! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:13, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
::[https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1024945789&oldid=1024937451] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:48, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
:::All right then! So... I'm "most very elite". Don't you have an essay about writing that way? (Although it's entirely ''and'' completely accurate in my case.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:00, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::You're most very ''extra-special'' elite. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:06, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
::::''The Wiki'' sounds like a morning talk show where we interview Jimbo about his favorite pasta dishes. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<font color="green">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</font>]] [[User_talk:MjolnirPants|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 04:01, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::Is [[Saturday Kitchen]] a blue link? Because that's the entire point of that show. Getting Jimbo on there to do some PR work would actually be a decent use of his time. [[User:Only in death|Only in death does duty end]] ([[User talk:Only in death|talk]]) 08:23, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::Fans of ''The Wiki'' are called "[[Wicca|wiccans]]". --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:28, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::::There was a time 15 years ago that I actually harbored that confusion. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:31, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Ah, yes. You have an excellent example of someone's harboring-confusion in the Arizona shipwrecks entry at the top of your user page. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:35, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::I wish I could harbor my confusion. Mine's been out to sea since 1986, gone around the world seven times and still hasn't got a clue where it is <small>what it's been doing <small>why it's been doing it <small><small>when it will be done...</small></small> I need to go lie down.</small></small> <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 20:49, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Don't give up. [[Beaching (nautical)|The beach]] is near. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:54, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::Not gonna lie, proximity to [[The Beach (film)|the beach]] is not really that comforting. Proximity to [[The Beach Boys]] however, is enormously comforting. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 20:58, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::Even if you don't want to lie on the beach, you can still [[I Get Around|get around]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:02, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Ba ba ba ba [[Barbara Ann]] left me because I got around too much. Not sure how she found out, though. I guess I wasn't giving her [[Good Vibrations|the right vibe]]. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 21:05, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Don't try to ''get around'' too much. It's much better to go straight through it. (And I mean nothing homophobic by saying "straight"). Always best to surround oneself with too much, no point in trying to bypass it. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:13, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::Umm... what was this talk thread about, anyway? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:15, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
{{outdent|:::::::::::::::}}I believe we were discussing the correct way to refer to this project. en-wiki seems to be popular, but I prefer EEng-wiki, because this talk page comprises about 62% of it, anyways. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 21:17, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
:Oh, yeah, that. You realize that the two of us are doing this routine simultaneously on EEng's lawn and on Atsme's lawn? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:22, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
::The thought had occurred to me, yes. I grew up on a dead-end street (that will be the name of my [[power ballad]] one day) so I'm used to playing in other people's yards. But I've got a botched custom IEnumerable implementation to re-write for one of my programmers, so I'm pretty much done, now. <small>I'm gonna just make a manual wrapper around a List<T>, which won't mean anything to anyone not into software, but will make any programmer reading this hate me, hehe.</small> <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 21:30, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
::::I think you should yield from doing that sort of work, Pants. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 11:27, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Ritchie333}}, Too late. It's already done. I've got dozens of methods like:
:::::<syntaxhighlight lang="c#">public bool Contains(Node item)
{
    if (_list.Contains(item)) return true;
    else return false;
}</syntaxhighlight>
:::::And it's ''glorious''. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 16:21, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::Happens to all of us. I've got some code here which has :
::::::<syntaxhighlight lang="javascript> function degToRad(deg) {
    // Why isn't this built in?
    return (deg / 180) * Math.PI;
}
</syntaxhighlight> [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 16:27, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::::I've got versions of that exact function in C#, AutoLisp, CLISP, Scheme, VBA 6, VBA 7, Javascript and Perl. I might even be missing a language or two. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 16:35, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::::About <code>Contains(Node item)</code>, shouldn't "Node" actually be "Nude"? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:26, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::I'd prefer it to be, but this project might eventually be released under license to certain clients. The good news is that, as the lead developer, I have the final word on the contents of the inline comments. My particular favorite is:
:::::::::<syntaxhighlight lang="C#">//Where's my fucking error handling?!?! - MjolnirPants
//I couldn't make try/catch work without breaking [other programmer]'s code - MjolnirPants' Junior-most programmer
//I am not interested in you excu... - MjolnirPants
if (thingThatShouldntHappenHappened) throw new Exception("Verbose error message.");
//Oh... I see. Uh, carry on, I guess. - MjolnirPants</syntaxhighlight>
:::::::::My proposal to write this in Y'ALL (a LISP-derived language I invented that uses southern idioms for keywords) was soundly rejected by my boss. My subsequent proposal to write it in [[Malbolge]] was met with open hostility and death threats from my team. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 20:09, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::I once wrote a C# function called "cdr" (which if you've done any Lisp programming, does [[CAR and CDR|exactly what you think it would do]]), and had an argument about why it couldn't be called "GetRestOfList" ... it got quite heated. And then there's the (possibly apocryphal) story about Microsoft using a null-terminated Pascal string (ie: the first byte has the string length) which was defined as a "FuckedString". [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 08:57, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::{{u|Ritchie333}}, I too, have car and cdr functions in the standard extension library which my team uses. And ''they actually use them''. 
:::::::::::I've said it before and I'll say it again: [[Lisp (programming language)|Lisp]] was the single most brilliant language ever invented. If it hadn't been overtaken by C++, I'm 100% convinced it would be the dominant language of deep learning today, and we'd have modern [[Lisp machine]]s capable of some truly amazing things. 
:::::::::::One of my dreams is to design and build an [[arduino]]-like Lisp machine (not to be confused with running uLisp on an arduino). <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 12:33, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::I think [[Eric S Raymond]] is a bit of a nut job, but I do like his widely-distributed quotation "{{xt|Lisp is worth learning for the profound enlightenment experience you will have when you finally get it; that experience will make you a better programmer for the rest of your days, even if you never actually use Lisp itself a lot.}}" A long time ago, I was writing a tool to parse a flat file and create objects in the parse tree that did stuff. I forget the details, but the stock way in C# of creating any object at runtime is <code>Activator.CreateInstance()</code> which is as slow as waiting for an Arbcom case to finish;{{fbdb}} I changed it so that it created individual constructors in [[Common Intermediate Language|IL]] at runtime and stored them in a map based on the object type that was parsed. That was much faster, but while I was writing lots of IL generator code to dump out a one-line constructor, I did think "I'm sure Lisp macros is much easier than this". [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 13:02, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
:::I know absolutely nothing about programming, but if it would help, I could hate you.{{fbdb}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:47, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
::::Alternatively, you could [[Template:hat|hat]] him. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 11:22, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
:::::I'm a little surprised EEng hasn't hatted this whole section, at this point. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 12:18, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
::::::Well, you know, I think crazy people should have a place to gather and be their crazy selves in a relatively safe environment where there are not sharp objects, and if I can supply that I'm happy to do so. Eventually you'll have to get off my lawn, however.`[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:29, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Fellow programmers (and non-programmers alike, since we're all computer-savvy Wikicoders) might find this podcast interesting. I've just listened to the first 5 episodes back-to-back and found it fascinating. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09d3v9s The Lazarus Heist] <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#BBA">design</b>]]</b> 14:04, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

[[File:Candle Wick.jpg|thumb|upright|Light my wiki! ''(Note: not a photo of ejaculation.)''<br><small>I want it known that I did ''not'' place this image & caption here (or anywhere, for that matter). -EEng</small></br><small>Indeed not, it was me. --[[Candle fish]]</small>]]
*Getting back to the program at hand... {{tq|How can we have that info placed back into Sally's Wiki?}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1025361572] And here I thought I knew all the anatomical terms. But that sure sounds kind of painful. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:40, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
*:[[Our Bodies, Ourselves|Our Wikis, Ourselves]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:22, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
*:Notice how I'm not making any [[lubricant|lube]] jokes. Please. I need you guys to notice, cuz it's really hard not to. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<font color="green">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</font>]] [[User_talk:MjolnirPants|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 13:41, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
*:: K. Why Jel need to say that? [[User:Ched|— Ched]] ([[User talk:Ched|talk]]) 15:25, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
*:::Actually, it's good to use lube. No one wants a sticky wiki. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:00, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
*:::Wet your wiki? Dip your wiki? Or, as sung by [[Jim Morrison]] and [[José Feliciano]], "Come on baby, light my wiki! Come on baby, light my wiki! Try to set the night on... ''wiki''!" --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 16:43, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
*When there's a Universal Code of Conduct you're all going to the reeducation camps! Every one of you! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:55, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
**You mean when Wiki has a Universal Code of Conduct? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:00, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
**<small>That shit hurts, doesn't it, EEng? [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ADid_you_know_nominations%2FDeath_of_Ronald_Greene&type=revision&diff=1025674281&oldid=1025667527] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:45, 28 May 2021 (UTC)</small>
<poem>
Sorry that my poem is so icky
But if you pour yourself a lime rickey
Watch out lest some tricky sicky
Drops into your drink a micky
So that they can have a quickie
And leave you with a big fat hickey
And as the clock goes tocky-ticky
Then you might not be so picky
And end up with a sticky wiki!
Burma Shave.</poem>

--[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

== May 2021 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello. It appears your talk page is becoming quite lengthy and is in need of [[WP:ARCHIVING|archiving]]. According to [[WP:TPG|Wikipedia's user talk page guidelines]]; "''Large talk pages are difficult to read and load slowly over slow connections. As a rule of thumb, archive closed discussions when a talk page exceeds 75 KB or has multiple resolved or stale discussions.''" – this talk page is {{#expr:{{formatnum:683,137|R}} / 1000 round 1 }} KB. See [[Help:Archiving a talk page]] for instructions on how to manually archive your talk page, or to arrange for automatic archiving using a [[WP:BOT|bot]].  If you have any questions, place a <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Help me|help me]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> notice on your talk page, or go to the [[WP:HD|help desk]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-archive --> [[Special:Contributions/92.40.188.227|92.40.188.227]] ([[User talk:92.40.188.227|talk]]) 15:18, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
::<Small>There is some irony here in that this template also makes the page longer...[[User:CaptainEek|<span style="color:#6a1f7f">'''CaptainEek'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:CaptainEek|<span style="font-size:82%"><span style="color:#a479e5">''Edits Ho Cap'n!''</span></span>]]</sup>[[Special:Contributions/CaptainEek|⚓]] 15:26, 29 May 2021 (UTC)</small>
:Thanks for the tip, blocked IP with 18 edits! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:11, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

== The IP at self-referential humor ==

Have you ever browsed through their contributions? They're a troll, who occasionally makes okay-ish edits, likely to disguise their trolling. Obviously a static IP as well, as their interests haven't changed over several months, with decent and trolling edits on articles in the exact same topic. They even tried to edit a WP policy page to say something ''very'' different in what appears to be a [[WP:POINTY]] edit, and then edit warred over it. Back in 2018, they used a dynamic IP, but are pretty clearly on a static one now, making their trolling easier to discern.

I recently broke my vow to avoid ANI for another IP who was making hundreds of edits to a noticeboard. I'm wondering if it's worth breaking again to end this one's tendentiousness. I've a list of trolling edits of theirs at [[User:MjolnirPants/sandbox#section_2]] if you want to give it a read. I'm curious as to your thoughts on this. [[User:MjolnirPants|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MjolnirPants|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 16:48, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
:To be honest I've lost track of what we're arguing about, with whom, and I'll be traveling for a few days so I'm afraid you'll have to take the lead on this. But I'm behind you all the way [https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-remember-im-behind-you-all-the-way-way-behind-you-76596620.html]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Barnstar of Humour Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Good Humor'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Guess what for :) ―<span style="background:#8FF;border:solid 1px;border-radius:8px;box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px">&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="color:#C00">Qwerfjkl</span>]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[User talk:Qwerfjkl|𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;<small>(please use&#32;{{tlx|reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply)</small><!--Template:Please ping--> 18:10, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
|}

== Expertise Required ==

You are the technical wizard here so I thought it wise to ask you, I’ve asked this question to a sysop and their reply although plausible I still need a technical editor to answer this for me so yup, your name came to my mind first. You see my question is how do people dig really old diffs fast? I’ve seen people dig up diffs from 2009 and very fast as well, Is there  a special technical or way of digging up diffs fast? For example if I warned an editor of UPE in 2019 or wanted to dig up other diffs pertaining their conduct and whatnot is there a special way of doing so? is there a script for that purpose? I barely can dig up diffs from last week, whereas some editors could dig up a diff from 2009 and relatively fast as well, how do they achieve that feat? '''[[User:Celestina007|Celestina007]]''' ([[User talk:Celestina007|talk]]) 21:00, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
*The key is to have the sort of personality that nurses grudges and mentally rehearses revenge scenarios over and over. This cements the locus of the original humiliation or offense in the mind so that it's immediately at hand (mentally speaking) when the moment for payback comes.{{pb}} Seriously, there's no magic bullet, but one very powerful tool is the editor interaction analyzer [https://sigma.toolforge.org/editorinteract.py], which works very well if you vaguely remember that you and X (or X and Y) discussed such-and-such, but you can't really remember when or where. Most talk pages (including ANI and other noticeboards) have search boxes, in case you think what you're looking for happened on a particular talk page. Both techniques take some practice before you understand their peculiarities.{{pb}} I hope this helps. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:23, 30 May 2021 (UTC) 
::Exactly! The ''editor interaction analyzer'' , seems to be the tool they make use of. thanks for the explanation. '''[[User:Celestina007|Celestina007]]''' ([[User talk:Celestina007|talk]]) 21:30, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
:::Right, but don't discount the value of nursing grudges and mentally rehearsing revenge scenarios. You'll get my bill. [[File:Platypus in Geelong.jpg |framelss|180px]] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:02, 31 May 2021 (UTC) 
::::Lmao, how am I just seeing this. '''[[User:Celestina007|Celestina007]]''' ([[User talk:Celestina007|talk]]) 18:51, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Early bird stereograph.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|You can put it ''on'' my bill, but don't put it ''in'' my bill! --Tryptobird]]
:::::Wait...we're allowed to nurse grudges? Damn.  [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 23:52, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::Indeed we are. And orderlies are allowed to grudge nurses. In fact it's traditional. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:22, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::::We're also allowed to [[Driven grouse shooting|nudge grouses]], though our more environmentally-conscious editors may object. [[User:MjolnirPants|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MjolnirPants|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 16:58, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

== [[Special:Diff/976978259/1026107604]] ==

I think the changes you made were constructive but it would've been helpful to clear them in advance with ArbCom{{snd}}the page does constitute instructions from the Arbitration Committee on rules in proceedings so ArbCom should probably know about changes {{smiley}} '''[[User:L235|KevinL]]''' (<small>aka</small> [[User:L235|L235]] '''·''' [[User talk:L235#top|t]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/L235|c]]) 19:47, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
*My response would be that [[Panopticon|no doubt the powers that be are watching]], but since you're an arb yourself that seems unnecessary.  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:27, 31 May 2021 (UTC) P.S. Have you visited [[User:EEng#s|The Museums]] lately?
*:Does this mean that if I edit those pages, ArbCom changes how it operates? Neat. <sup><small>[[User:SubjectiveNotability|SubjectiveNotability]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-12ex"><small>a [[User:GeneralNotability|GN]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:GeneralNotability|talk to the boss]]) 14:12, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
*::If only it were that easy. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:38, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

== Jue-Let ==

Jue-Let was a major influence on [[James Beard]]. Please read [https://www.saveur.com/james-beard-chinese-jue-let/ this]. [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 21:43, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
:Then it would be best to mention the influence instead of just the belovedness. (Grandmothers get a free pass for both, of course.)  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:07, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
::{{done}} [[User:Cullen328|<b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328</sup>]] [[User talk:Cullen328|<span style="color:#00F">''Let's discuss it''</span>]] 04:20, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==
[[File:S Letter.jpg|thumb|right|This large S]]
{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Surreal Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Surreal Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |   ―<span style="background:#8FF;border:solid 1px;border-radius:8px;box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px">&nbsp;[[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="color:#C00">Qwerfjkl</span>]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[User talk:Qwerfjkl|𝕋𝔸𝕃𝕂]]&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;<small>(please use&#32;{{tlx|reply to|Qwerfjkl}} on reply)</small><!--Template:Please ping--> 14:09, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
|}
*And to what do I owe this largesse? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:19, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

== Life imitating Wikipedia ==

Way back in September 2012, when I created [[Wikipedia:Don't throw your toys out of the pram]], I thought a stereotypical toy-chucking unblock request would be "{{xt|This is evil censorship and bullying. I am right and they are wrong. You cannot allow lies and slander to appear on Wikipedia articles!}}". Today, I hear [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57365628 Trump's response to a two-year Facebook ban] : "{{xt|"They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this censoring and silencing, and ultimately, we will win. Our country can't take this abuse anymore!"}}" Can I sue the Orange Oaf for plagiarising my cliches? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 19:12, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
*[https://itlaw.wikia.org/wiki/Independent_creation Independent creation]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:15, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
:*No; [[spontaneous generation]]. — [[User:Neonorange|Neonorange]] ([[User talk:Neonorange|Phil]]) 23:36, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
:::I'm more interested in how [[Frisco Coakley]] is doing. <span style="background:#ff0000;font-family:Times New Roman;">[[User:Mr.choppers|<span style="color:#FDEE00;">'''&nbsp;Mr.choppers&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;'''</span>]][[User talk:Mr.choppers|<span style="color:#FDEE00;">✎&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 04:13, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
::::Sorry, being a bear of very little brain I am unable to grasp the reference. See also [[WP: FRISCO]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:29, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::I sort of went down a rabbithole after reading [[Wikipedia:Don't throw your toys out of the pram|the essay]] Ritchie mentioned: [[User talk:FriscoRGMC|This user]] created a series of articles about his pet rabbit Frisco Coakley. I would prefer discussing this animal to thinking about the last four years. <span style="background:#ff0000;font-family:Times New Roman;">[[User:Mr.choppers|<span style="color:#FDEE00;">'''&nbsp;Mr.choppers&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;'''</span>]][[User talk:Mr.choppers|<span style="color:#FDEE00;">✎&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 22:00, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::I have always referred to the town as "Frisco", ever since I read it being referenced in a Swedish book about American Truckers when I was eight. Proudly a rube. <span style="background:#ff0000;font-family:Times New Roman;">[[User:Mr.choppers|<span style="color:#FDEE00;">'''&nbsp;Mr.choppers&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;'''</span>]][[User talk:Mr.choppers|<span style="color:#FDEE00;">✎&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 22:13, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::::That's funny, when ''I'' was eight I read an American book about Swedish truckers. Must be some kind of series: "The Boys Adventure Book of Foreign Truckers". [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:50, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Ha! I'd like to buy that one. It must be very fun to author those books, getting to ride along with truckers in foreign locales. My cousin just got her commercial trucker's license in Sweden, after a career as a lunch lady (all true) and I can't wait to shadow her at work for a day. <span style="background:#ff0000;font-family:Times New Roman;">[[User:Mr.choppers|<span style="color:#FDEE00;">'''&nbsp;Mr.choppers&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;'''</span>]][[User talk:Mr.choppers|<span style="color:#FDEE00;">✎&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 01:04, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

==DYK for Death of Ronald Greene==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2021/June#10 June 2021|10 June 2021]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Death of Ronald Greene]]''''', which you recently nominated. The fact was ''... that after police beat, choked, [[pepper spray|pepper-sprayed]], and dragged '''[[Death of Ronald Greene|Ronald Greene]]''' face down while shackled, saying "that shit hurts, doesn't it?", a trooper was initially reprimanded for violating courtesy rules?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Death of Ronald Greene]]. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2021-05-31&end=2021-06-20&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Death_of_Ronald_Greene Death of Ronald Greene])</small>, and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]]. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 00:02, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

== Sweet Jimbo, hear my prayer! ==

From this edit[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AVillage_pump_%28WMF%29&type=revision&diff=1028644264&oldid=1028634451]

:This is, so wrong,
:Sweet Jimbo, hear my prayer!
:Back down! Back down!
:Sweet Jimbo doesn't care.
:
:(Adapted from the opening song in the film ''Les Miserables'' [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgCegVtnOzc]) --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 12:20, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
::Bring me editor 2.4.60.1
::Your block is up and your parole's begun!
::You know what this means 
::        - yes, it means I'm free
::NO!
::It means you get your yellow ticket of leave
::You are a vandal
::        - I made a minor change
::You violated BLP
::        - I fixed a typo I sweaaaaarrrr <sup><small>[[User:SubjectiveNotability|InspectorNotability]]</small></sup> <sub style="margin-left:-12ex"><small>a [[User:GeneralNotability|GN]] franchise</small></sub> ([[User_talk:GeneralNotability|talk to the boss]]) 14:18, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

:Do you hear the editors sing
:Singing the songs of angry men
:It's a story of the editors that must be sung again
:When the beating of their chest
:Reaches into their ear drums
:You know it's definitely the time that we have won. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 14:23, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

*Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for attending this year's EEng Home for the Bewildered Literary Recital and Talent Show. On your way out remember not to feed or provoke the inmates. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:41, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
**In conclusion: Burma Shave. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:53, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
**:Admin of AN
**:Doling out the blocks
**:Ready with the [[WP:G5|G5]] when he finds the socks
**:Pages he protects
**:AfDs are closed
**:When it's time to unban he will vote !oppose
**:Glad to give a friend an unblock
**:Doesn't cost him to be nice
**:But nothing gets you nothing
**:Every !support has a little price
**:[[User:GeneralNotability|GeneralNotability]] ([[User talk:GeneralNotability|talk]]) 20:06, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
**:Admin of AN
**:Doling out the blocks
**:Ready with the [[WP:G5|G5]] when he finds the socks
**:Pages he protects
**:AfDs are closed
**:When it's time to unban he will vote !oppose
**:Glad to give a friend an unblock
**:Doesn't cost him to be nice
**:But nothing gets you nothing
**:Every !support has a little price
**:[[User:GeneralNotability|GeneralNotability]] ([[User talk:GeneralNotability|talk]]) 20:21, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
*:::He's so nice, he posted twice! :) --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 20:54, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
*::::I may have spent this afternoon listening to the [[Les_Misérables:_Highlights_from_the_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack|2012 adaptation's soundtrack]] - pretty good, though I prefer the [[Les_Misérables_(musical)#Original_Broadway_Cast_recording|original Broadway cast recording]] and don't love how the movie really cut down Overture/Work Song. [[User:GeneralNotability|GeneralNotability]] ([[User talk:GeneralNotability|talk]]) 00:20, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
*:::::Those are very good, but nothing compares with the Key & Peele version.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C5ppVeOjeM]  --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 01:24, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
*:::Thanks for posting that. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:49, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
*:::Thanks for posting that. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:49, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
*::::Thanks for thanking GN for posting that. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:12, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
*::::Thanks for thanking GN for posting that. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:12, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
*:::::Thanks for correcting that per the number of indents. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:29, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
*:::::Thanks for correcting that per the number of indents. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:29, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
*::::::Bite me. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:50, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
*:::::::Yum yum. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:57, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
*:::::::Yum yum. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:57, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
*:::::::[[Doublemint|''Double your pleasure, double your fun...'']] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:03, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

== Vote Bear! ==

* '''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyp_s8edTYA This one]''' is for those of you who live in [[DPRK|The Democratic People's Republic]] of California.  --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 13:51, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
**[https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/bear-goes-on-rampage-in-japan-storms-military-base-airport/ar-AALarmM Coincidence? I think not.] --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 13:58, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
***Those are bear-faced lies! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:25, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

== why? ==

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Levivich/Conduct_problem&curid=67986365&diff=1029307609&oldid=1029297042 comment removed] [[User:Ched|— Ched]] ([[User talk:Ched|talk]]) 08:50, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
: Some bug no doubt. Certainly not my intention. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:24, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
:: OK - thank you.  I didn't ''think'' it was intentional, but I've had a bad couple days of having to fix, strike-through, re-edit, change, and apologize for things, so I just wanted to make sure I didn't somehow screwup again. [[User:Ched|— Ched]] ([[User talk:Ched|talk]]) 11:32, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
:::Don't worry, we cool. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:23, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

== Innate or learnt ==

I’m in awe of template editors, you guys are gods, my question is did you from childhood have a flair for coding?or did you learn it privately or did you major in computer science? Furthermore in your own opinion what coding language is best for Wikipedia? & Secondly, in general(not wiki now) what do you think is the best coding language that is currently high in demand? Someone mentioned Python to me but I decided to run it through you first, lest I forget, what language are we optimizing in this collaborative project? '''[[User:Celestina007|Celestina007]]''' ([[User talk:Celestina007|talk]]) 18:30, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
:Well since you ask, I began on this amazing thing [https://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/wang360.html] in the 3rd grade, then soon after [[HP_Time-Shared_BASIC|this]], then I took a few years off, and then in high school met [[IBM_1401|my first true love]]. What little coding I still do is in very arcane environments, so I can't possibly advise you on how to compete with the young whippersnappers of todays. Certainly Python is very good to know. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:48, 19 June 2021 (UTC) 
::Commenced coding in 3rd grade??? Ha! So it’s innate then! you are gifted. In 3rd grade I was ''building sand castles'', playing ''hide and seek'' and ''Hopscotch''. I feel coding is a gift you either have it or you don’t. I’d just stick to my anti UPE work here. '''[[User:Celestina007|Celestina007]]''' ([[User talk:Celestina007|talk]]) 04:30, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::I think the reason is that EEng was struck by lightening as a child. Probably flipped a few of his bits. (And now, he is going to tell me to byte him.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:06, 20 June 2021 (UTC) 
::::::@{{u|Tryptofish}}, Bits and bytes 😊. I caught that. '''[[User:Celestina007|Celestina007]]''' ([[User talk:Celestina007|talk]]) 20:21, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
:::[[User:Celestina007|Celestina007]], this is s sample of exactly one, but I am getting a lot of job offers that for someone who can create something with [[MicroPython]] on a [[RP2040]] processor, using a [https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-silicon-pico-now-on-sale/ Raspberry Pi Pico] as the prototype. I highly recommend the SunFounder Raspberry Pi Pico Basic Starter Kit, $49 USD on Amazon [ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08XXHGSQ7/ ]. Related skills that will make you even more valuable are some basic electronics (you really don't need a lot; most everything happens inside the the RP2040) and -- after you are good at solving problems with MicroPython -- learning how to make your own circuit boards using [[KiCad]] and having a board house actually make the boards.
:::Here is a recent job that will give you an idea of what the customers are looking for. My customer has an industrial application where they basically spin a thick glass disk at very high RPM. Occasionally the thing goes too fast and explodes, knocking chunks out of the wall of the concrete bunker where they run this thing. They call it "the bomb".
:::Years ago I made a small gizmo that detected the speed using an optical sensor and a slotted disk on the shaft. It had one job; cut the power to everything if the RPM got above a certain threshold. They called me while back and wanted to make a new one plus a couple of spares and a new feature (cut the power if someone opens the door to the bunker). 
:::They offered an obscene amount of money to not lose their expensive glass and to avoid killing some idiot who ignores warning signs. I charged them half of what they offered to pay and added a magnetic lock so the door cannot be opened until the RPM is zero. Turns out you can call any alarm company and they will install such a lock; lock on power applied or lock on power loss, your choice. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 00:40, 20 June 2021 (UTC) 
::::@{{u|Guy Macon}}, thanks mate. Seems like you’re a coding genius. It’s crazy how y’all coding geniuses talk genius stuff and don’t even realize it. '''[[User:Celestina007|Celestina007]]''' ([[User talk:Celestina007|talk]]) 23:37, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::Here is the interesting part; I ''also'' do this sort of thing using assembly language, which really does take a lot or skill. I could have done the job I described above with a microcontroller that costs about a nickel using assembly language. Which is important for some of the things I do, where the factory is turning out a million units at a time, and choosing a $4 Raspberry Pi Pico would cost four million dollars. But many projects need less than a hundred units. For the project above I gave them 10 so they would have plenty of spares. Here is the key point: '''you could have done the programming after spending a few weeks studying Python and Micropython.''' It really is that easy! Don't sell yourself short. You can do this. I encourage you; please get a Raspberry Pi Pico and try it for yourself. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 00:17, 21 June 2021 (UTC)     
:::::::@{{u|Guy Macon}}, okay then, you’ve got me convinced. I’d commence in the third week of August. Thanks for the encouragement. '''[[User:Celestina007|Celestina007]]''' ([[User talk:Celestina007|talk]]) 22:52, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::Does anyone program in Monty Python? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:04, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::::I was thinking of using [[Monty Python (programming language)]] to program a system I am working on -- the baggage retrieval system at Heathrow has me worried. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 00:17, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::::{{Reply|Guy Macon}} my advice is not to be worried about it, worried about it unless you’re contractually obliged to be.—[[User:Odysseus1479|Odysseus]][[User talk:Odysseus1479|'''<span style="color:#6A5ACD">1</span><span style="color:#9400D3">4</span><span style="color:purple">7</span>''']][[Special:Contributions/Odysseus1479|'''<span style="color:maroon">9</span>''']] 22:52, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

== Sunshine ==


{| style="border: 3px solid #4A98F2; background-color: #A9D2FF;padding:0.5em"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[File:Sunandclouds.svg|150px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''Sunshine!'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid #4A98F2;" | Hello EEng! [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) has given you a bit of [[sunshine]] to brighten your day! Sunshine promotes [[WP:LOVE|WikiLove]] and hopefully it has made your day better. Spread the sunshine by adding <tt>{{<nowiki>subst:</nowiki>[[User:Meaghan/Sunshine]]}}</tt> to someone else's talk page, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. In addition, you can spread the sunshine to anyone who visits your userpage and/or talk page by adding {{tlu|User:Meaghan/Sunshine icon}}. Happy editing! [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 14:27, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
|}

Happy first day of summer, EEng!! [[User:Interstellarity|Interstellarity]] ([[User talk:Interstellarity|talk]]) 14:27, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
*So the year's all downhill from here. Thanks for reminding me. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:49, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
::Pardon me but today is the last day of Spring. Summer doesn't start until tomorrow. ''Then'' it'll be downhill until December (finishing with 10 days uphill, like a ski jump). <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#BBA">design</b>]]</b> 16:33, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
:::Know-it-all. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:04, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
::::So difficult to resist the impulse to pedantry. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 19:33, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
:::::Keep saying stuff like that and I'll be forced to follow the instructions at [[WP:CHILDPROT]].{{fbdb}} [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:51, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::Minor ''details''.  [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 21:32, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::: @Know-it-all: I'm not even sure the Lady God knows it all. 
:::::::I once encountered a story about Brahma-the-crator  having been bored-to-the-death by knowing-it-all. Story told Kali offered help, and Brahma accepted; so Kali smashed him to godzillion piecess. All the pieces together would still know-it-all, when each one had only partial knowledge of anything and so wouldn't get bored-to-death (even when they seem to have become mortal, and some of them now trying to achieve nirvana). 
:::::::I hope I'm not boring you to the death. --[[User:Marjan Tomki SI|Marjan Tomki SI]] ([[User talk:Marjan Tomki SI|talk]]) 15:17, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
::::::::I guess, to me, it's a bit like getting someone's birthday wrong. At least being a day early, rather than a day late, you can style it out; the Earth can just open its birthday card the day after. Anyway, it's today now. Happy Summer Solstice everyone! {{small|(And please don't call me Know-it-all. I much prefer Smartypants.)}} <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#BBA">design</b>]]</b> 18:28, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

== Hilarious  ==

I saw [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&curid=5137507&diff=1029594216&oldid=1029593578&diffmode=source this] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Diffusing_conflict this]. Had myself a really good laugh! Thank you. '''[[User talk:Princess of Ara|<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS"><span style="color:#FF69B4">Princess of Ara</span><sub><small style="color:pink">(talk)</small></sub></span>]]''' 09:13, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
:<small>{{TPS}} [[Arses of Persia|British translation]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 09:24, 21 June 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::<small>Hi Martin! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:47, 21 June 2021 (UTC)</small>
::Lool! I went wild on the publish but in my fit of laughter. [[Olusegun Obasanjo|Obasanjo's]] internet is also not helping matters! '''[[User talk:Princess of Ara|<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS"><span style="color:#FF69B4">Princess of Ara</span><sub><small style="color:pink">(talk)</small></sub></span>]]''' 10:13, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
:::I assume you were LMAOing. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:47, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
::::<small>I think there may be a joke there [[Horizon|in or on the offing]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:56, 21 June 2021 (UTC) </small>
::::Yes! Haha! '''[[User talk:Princess of Ara|<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS"><span style="color:#FF69B4">Princess of Ara</span><sub><small style="color:pink">(talk)</small></sub></span>]]''' 18:28, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
*If somewhere on commons there's a photo of a Persian (Persian cat or, I suppose, Persian person) with a veil on its (or his or her) butt, then the caption could be ''veiled-ass Persian''. Unfortunately, looks like [[:File:Dalilah bailando danza oriental en la Esfinge.jpg]] is an Egyptian, not Persian, gal. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:04, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
::[[Delilah (Tom Jones song)|"I crossed the street to her house and she opunned the door"]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Thomas John Woodward, 81]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:11, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
:::Sorry, ''veiled-ass Welshman'' hardly fits the bill. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:27, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
::::<small>Oh, I [[Barry Welsh Is Coming#A.R.S.|don't know]]... [[Elbow (band)|E. L. Bow 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:55, 21 June 2021 (UTC) </small>

== Are you an admin? If not, what do you think gives you the right to unroll well made entries? ==

What ground do you have to stand on? I mean even if I were to disregard the repulsive nature of your commentary, the likes of you are what deter people from Wikipedia. Unless you provide a valid reason for repeatedly undoing additions to the Titanic life-boat article I'll keep undoing your loathsome behaviour every step of the way. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:216.158.109.204|216.158.109.204]] ([[User talk:216.158.109.204#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/216.158.109.204|contribs]]) 03:37, 27 June 2021 (UTC)</span>
:Aside from the question of what the reader learns from long lists of nonnotable names with absolutely nothing to indicate who these people were (not even, say, identifying passenger vs. crew), Fandom isn't a reliable source, and I'm betting the "two books" you've mentioned aren't tehe top-quality scholarly sources which are surely available for such information. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:56, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
::To answer 216.158.109.204's first question, EEng holds a position higher<span style="color:#0645AD"><sup><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Edsel Citation|Citation]] [[Nee!|Nee]][[Ded Moroz|ded]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></sup></span> than Wikipedia Administrator; Wikipedia Infallible Judge Of All That Is Right And True. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 04:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
:::To be clear, I'm not ''always'' infallible. I'm only infallible [[Papal_infallibility#Conditions_for_teachings_being_declared_infallible|when I ''say'' I'm being infallible]].  [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:08, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
:Since EEng is answering why the edits deserved undoing rather than the actual question of why he had the right to undo them: The flip side of being "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit" is that anyone can also disagree with your edits and undo them. So EEng has at least as much right to undo them as you had to make them in the first place, setting aside your [[Begging the question|rhetorical fallacy]] of asserting that the entries were well made as a premise of a question asking why they were judged not to be so. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 06:12, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
:Yep, editing with EEng can be a bit of a [[Rollback (roller coaster)|roller coaster]], can't it. Personally I've never found EEng's behaviour to be [[Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas|loathsome]]; in fact, [[Lovely Professional University|far from it]]. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some [[Deckchairs Overboard|chairs]] to rearrange on the deck of the proud and unsinkable [[Titanic in popular culture|HMS Wikipedia]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 07:49, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
::They are always considered unsinkable [[WP:CANCER|until they sink]]. Lotus 123. Lehman Brothers. Wordperfect. Geocities. Healthcare.gov. Ask Jeeves. Digg. Myspace. Every one of them was at one time considered to be unsinkable. Yes, some of them still exist as shadows of their former greatness. but they were all failures of one kind or another. Some day the gravy train will stop. There will be a scandal, a competitor, a successful fork, a huge legal loss, a shift in how we all use computers -- ''something'' will happen. We cannot have donations increasing until Wikipedia's revenue is more than all the money in the world. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 08:34, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
:::<small>I'm prepared to donate [[Spare a Copper|three ha'pence]]! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 08:41, 27 June 2021 (UTC) </small>
::::Oh fun, a [[Well-made play]]! As for EEng behaving repulsively: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Repulsion_(biology)&redirect=no]. But I think it would be an excellent idea to make EEng an administrator <small>(as if that would give him a special right to [[Egg roll|unroll]] edits!)</small>, because then he could save everyone else time by just blocking himself. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:59, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

== Just wanted to say thank you ==

Just wanted to say thank you, for being one of the few users who seems to have some common sense in the sea of bullshittery that is our modern culture. The moronic, absurdist, toxic (and sometimes frankly, dangerous) culture that seems to be permeating everything, everywhere, including Wikipaedia.<br>

I know it can be a thankless task sometimes, being just so utterly BASED and reasonable on Wikipedia talk pages. Especially since most readers dont even know talk pages exist, let alone understand the complex politics going on behind the scenes by the unbased and cringe editors and admins. So just know that someone, somewhere is genuinely thankful that users like you exist, who are a little beacon of hope that, maybe, all signs of intelligent life are not yet lost on this planet. [[Special:Contributions/92.41.96.241|92.41.96.241]] ([[User talk:92.41.96.241|talk]]) 03:20, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
:Shit, the tape ran out ... OK, can you say that again? Please speak directly into the begonias. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:56, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
::Did I write that the way you wanted? I can log out again if it needs to be changed. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]] 20:03, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
:::Fool! Use the secure channel! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

== [Verb]ed on a [punctuation mark] ==

Your comment as [[User talk:Guy Macon]] brought to my attention that, somehow, we did not have a redirect for the wonderful phrase ''[[hanged on a comma]]''. I've created the redirect, so, let no one say that nothing good has come of all this. I was going to make a joke there about whether any Wikipedian has ever been "indeffed on a colon", but decided it best to not compare execution to blocking on a page where tensions are high. I'm sure, though, that the answer is yes.<span style="font-family:courier;font-size:90%"> <span class="nowrap">-- [[User:Tamzin|Tamzin]]</span></span><span class="nowrap"> (she/they)</span> &#124; <span class="nowrap">[[User talk:Tamzin|o toki tawa mi.]]</span> 19:48, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
:{{tps}} By strange coincidence, I was just listening to a podcast about Casement yesterday, and intended to look him up here, but had forgotten his name. Thank you for making this. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 20:12, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
::For those of y'all in the audience who write actual articles, I do wonder if there's room for a [[Trial of Roger Casement]] / ''[[R. v. Casement]]''. You've got an interesting legal angle, interesting historical/political angle, and just a dash of sex to keep things interesting. (And as a bonus you get to deal with two [[WP:AC/DS|DS]] areas at once!)<span style="font-family:courier;font-size:90%"> <span class="nowrap">-- [[User:Tamzin|Tamzin]]</span></span><span class="nowrap"> (she/they)</span> &#124; <span class="nowrap">[[User talk:Tamzin|o toki tawa mi.]]</span> 20:30, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
*[[List of people done in by auxiliary parts of speech and various punctuation marks]]? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:12, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
*:Does it include punctuation marks not used ''qua'' punctuation marks? If so, I assume the list would be 99% programmers. [[Tom Scott (entertainer)|Tom Scott]], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6NJkWbM1xk for instance]. Or just about anyone to ever edit a MediaWiki template. (For me it's always the pipe in <code><nowiki>{{#if:{{{1|}}}}}</nowiki></code> that gets me.)<span style="font-family:courier;font-size:90%"> <span class="nowrap">-- [[User:Tamzin|Tamzin]]</span></span><span class="nowrap"> (she/they)</span> &#124; <span class="nowrap">[[User talk:Tamzin|o toki tawa mi.]]</span> 00:40, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
*::Notwithstanding that [[Mariner_1#Cause_of_the_malfunction]] is my all-time favorite and the granddaddy of them all, I think we better restrict ourselves to natural languages lest we be overrun. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:00, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

:: The indomitable [[Lynne Truss]] has been working on something like this already, I think, writing of the [[Aldus Manutius|Manutius]] family in [[Eats, Shoots, & Leaves]] that
::: I'm sure people did question whether Italian printers were quite the right people to legislate on the meaning of everything; but on the other hand, ''resistance was obviously useless against a family that could invent italics''.
:: [[User:scs|scs]] ([[User talk:scs|talk]]) 15:42, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

:::I often choke on an undercooked [[Polygonia c-album|Oxford comma]]. Does that count? [[Hannibal Lecter|"Hannibal's Lectures 123"]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:00, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
::::Now ''that's'' an [[artichoke|artful choke]]! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:55, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

==New message from Chess==
[[File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg|25px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[:Wikipedia talk:No personal attacks#Adding spirituality as a group of people that shouldn't be targeted by personal attacks|Wikipedia talk:No personal attacks §&nbsp;Adding spirituality as a group of people that shouldn't be targeted by personal attacks]].  [[User:Chess|Chess]] ([[User talk:Chess|talk]]) <small>(please use&#32;{{tlx|reply to|Chess}} on reply)</small><!--Template:Please ping--> 06:56, 4 July 2021 (UTC)<!-- [[Template:Please see]] -->

== Talkpage archiving  ==

Your talkpage is very long, please consider archiving it. [[User:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b>]][[User talk:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#000000">2302</b>]] ([[User talk:Joseph2302|talk]]) 00:35, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
*Curiosity got the better of you, did it? [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1032001959] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:55, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
*There's a [[Epistolary novel|novel idea]]. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#BBA">design</b>]]</b> 00:46, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
*What, only 204 sections spanning 2+ years? I have seen worse. <small>[[User talk:HighInBC|<b style="color:LightCoral">HighInBC</b>]] <small><sup>Need help? '''[[User talk:HighInBC|Just ask.]]'''</sup></small></small> 00:49, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
*:Jesus, I cut the thing in half not three months ago [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1013274855&oldid=1011753752]. What do these people WANT from me? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:55, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
*:{{blockquote|text=I hate housework. You make the beds, you wash the dishes and six months later you have to start all over again.|author=Joan Rivers}}
*Not when I'm recently single, thanks [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=676500482]. [[User:Belle|Belle]] ([[User talk:Belle|talk]]) 15:52, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

== Curious ==

I'm curious as to what you're trying to communicate [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GPinkerton&diff=prev&oldid=1032077237 here]? That user has been banned from editing the English Wikipedia since 23 February, though they're still active [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/GPinkerton at the Simple English Wikipedia]. What am I missing? <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">☿&nbsp;[[User:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#6a0dad">Apaugasma</span>]] ([[User talk:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Apaugasma|☉]])</span> 12:02, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
:Private joke, nothing deep. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:03, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

==Not everything is a joke!{{emoji|1F621}}==
<small>'''''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4SMSCKOXO8&t=80s Woof!]'''''</small> [[User:El_C|El_C]] 00:20, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
*I'm more confused than ever. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:25, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnULoPqpCFo Puppy paradox?] [[User:El_C|El_C]] 00:33, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
:::<small>Someone call the ''POLICE!'' [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:47, 6 July 2021 (UTC)</small>
::::I called the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XffsPEWPcM canine unit]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:17, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::Advice for dog lovers: don't search YouTube for "dog, spinning, Bulgarians". End of safety announcement. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:54, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::Don't [[Dog spinning|search Wikipedia]], either. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:53, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::But [[Slinky Dog Zigzag Spin|can be fun]], it seems. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 10:12, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::Thought you might appreciate [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangor,_Gwynedd&diff=1033471019&oldid=1032515793 this recent edit]... [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:33, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::At least [[Owen Hurcum|Owen]] doesn't want everyone call him "[[Family tree of Welsh monarchs|tree]]"? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:03, 17 July 2021 (UTC) <small>omg, sorry, I'm such a [[Binary-coded decimal|non-woke binary bitch]]. </small>

== You asked ==

It's why I did not explain, those in on it would get it, and those not in on it would not really benefit from knowing.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 12:55, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

==Once again ...==
I find myself in the position of defending an editor at ANI whose edits are (for the most part) productive, but whose attitude pisses people off. You (and TRM for that matter) might relate. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 01:16, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
:Huh. I don't know any editors like that. Anyway, in the spirit of giving the guy another chance I randomly grabbed a few things from his contribs, which turned out to be [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=971909110] (fixing a minor stylistic flaw by making the sentence factually incorrect); [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=968051738] (worsening the flow in obedience to an idiosyncratic idea); and finally [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=961180770] (misusing a mathematical term) just before [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=964038419] (pontificating on mathematics). From these I conclude your efforts may be misplaced. Sic.{{pb}}Look, if he'd acknowledge that he's got problems, and agree to listen, that would be one thing. But he's just laying low until it blows over. He can always get back from an indef by speaking up. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:55, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
::Well I might be all wrong about this. But I agree acknowledging their problems and agreeing to listen&mdash;not an easy thing for some editors (know any of those?)&mdash;is what they should do here. Although, of course, just silently changing their editorial behavior would be sufficient for the purposes of the encyclopedia. But that won't fly now. ANI needs its pound of flesh. If some sort of recognition of their problems and a willingness to try to fix them is not forthcoming, an indef will likely follow. [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 11:57, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
::::And we don't even get one of those [[Trial in absentia|sketchy court artist's impressions of the accused]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 12:12, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Edvard Munch, 1893, The Scream, oil, tempera and pastel on cardboard, 91 x 73 cm, National Gallery of Norway.jpg|thumb|upright|Here you go, Martin. <b style="font:1.3em/1em Trebuchet MS;letter-spacing:-0.07em">[[User:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#000">nagual</b>]][[User talk:nagualdesign|<b style="color:#BBA">design</b>]]</b> 20:59, 10 July 2021 (UTC)<br><br><small>Oh Nagual, you're a real scream!  Obviously [[Dead Parrot sketch|"pining for the fjords"]]?  --[[User:Martinevans123|ME123]]</small>]]
:::I said at ANI that TRM certainly should have handled this better, and been more forthcoming about what was wrong with Autod.'s edits, but I guess it's like this: there's IDHT, there's supercilious self-certainty, and there's not knowing what you're talking about. My experience is the community will tolerate up to two out of three, but not all three, which is what we have here. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:53, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
::::<small>Hmm... I wonder which two I should try to get away with. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:09, 10 July 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::::<small>I'm certain that I don't know what I'm talking about and I won't let any of you lesser beings tell me otherwise. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 20:39, 10 July 2021 (UTC)</small>

== You don't like [[WP:LISTGAP]] fixes? Why? ==

Hi, EEng. You [[Special:Diff/1033305432|undid]] my [[Special:Diff/1033295328|fixes]] to the mangled section at [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style]]. My intention (as stated in my ES) was to correct [[WP:LISTGAP]] errors and to fix the threads that Catchpoke had garbled.

Then, seeing as how your complaint was {{tqq|do not rearrange others' posts like that}}, I [[Special:Diff/1033315591|reapplied the fixes]] to the WP:LISTGAP problem, ''without'' doing any rearranging, just correcting the reply/indentation levels (I really just deleted two separate colons). Your response was to tell me to "[[Special:Diff/1033335534|Cut it out]]".

Can you elaborate? What do you have against this kind of corrections? [[WP:TPO]] specifically enumerates {{xt|fixing indentation levels ... fixing list markup (to [[MOS:LISTGAP|avoid disruption]] of [[screen readers]], for instance)...}} under "Fixing format errors". Please let me know what you don't like about my attempts to make the discussions easier to parse. Thanks,<i>&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:JohnFromPinckney|JohnFromPinckney]] ([[User talk:JohnFromPinckney|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/JohnFromPinckney|edits]])</i> 17:15, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
:The extra indent level you removed (in your link above) is one many editors like to use when there are multiple responses to one post. Instead of all responses at the same indent level (which makes it hard to tell how many responses there are and where one editor's response ends and the next begins -- and indeed often causes the reader to miss the first signature buried inside and mistakenly think all the paragraphs were posted by the editor whose sig comes last), the responses "cascade backwards", the first most to the right, the next one indent level less, etc., making it obvious what's going on.{{pb}}For years we were browbeaten about how irregularities in indenting causes screen readers to "close one list and open another" because some screen reader is trapped in the 1990s. And then came the day I was told by an ''actual'' user of a screenreader that it reads our talk pages just fine if only you bother to set certain options right (basically, telling the reader to be less verbose and just read what a sighted user sees). So I've little sympathy for this kind of gnoming, which makes it harder to follow the conversation for a spurious reason. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:58, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
::This is an issue that I don't understand on a technical level, but am interested in from the perspective of being helpful to other users. It's something that I previously discussed with {{u|Isaacl}} ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish#Conventions_for_discussion_thread_formatting]), and I would be interested to know what isaacl thinks of the discussion here. Thanks. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:35, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
:::I appreciate some editors think their response is more directly related to a comment than the immediately following reply, and so choose to interject their response in between, sometimes with extra nesting to make it look different. Yes, it causes extra list start/end announcements (as I recall, Graham87 has confirmed this before), which does correspond to what a sighted user sees, since they see the extra left margin space (which was the point). Thus the interjected reply will have greater prominence to both sets of users. Whether or not interjecting a comment is a desirable talk page practice is a community practice matter, and not technical. [[User:Isaacl|isaacl]] ([[User talk:Isaacl|talk]]) 19:17, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
::::It has nothing to do with giving more prominence (though it could be used for that, I suppose), but rather for the reasons I gave above. The technique can be used when putting your response either above or below an existing response. I do sometimes put my response above an existing one where my response is in the manner of a one-off not likely to lead to more back-and-forth, and where the existing post has already led, or is likely to lead, to further discussion. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:59, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::I think it's perfectly reasonable to use extra indenting in order to top-post etc. during a discussion. (Although I'm also participating right now in a discussion in which it has reached the level of absurdity: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Iridescent&oldid=1033463001#Gender_gap_research].) But I also think that it serves a useful purpose, and really doesn't impose on anyone, to use consistent formatting in terms of <code>:::</code> or <code>*::</code>, or the like. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:07, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::I suggest you open a thread somewhere, "LISTGAP meets GENDERGAP". [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:29, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::[[Gap Inc.|''Fall into the gap''...]] --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 15:29, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Falling into the gap is certainl better than succumbing to an [[Affliction Clothing|affliction]]. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 15:52, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::"Prominence" was just a shorthand way of referring to your statement that you wanted to avoid readers "miss[ing] the first signature buried inside and mistakenly think all the paragraphs were posted by the editor whose sig comes last..." [[User:Isaacl|isaacl]] ([[User talk:Isaacl|talk]]) 21:50, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
*****OK? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:11, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
:*****OK. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 21:18, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::I misunderstood you. I once had someone accuse me of top-posting because I thought my contribution was more important (or, more precisely, he accused my of treating his contribution as less important). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:27, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

== the DYK hall of mirrors ==

I'm laughing that you'd [[Special:Diff/1033629044|think]] I have any idea how that whole Rube Goldberg machine manages to keep plugging along and would therefore be able to check anyone's work. I have been trying to figure out how to simplify instructions there, but between the number of them and the number of times they're transcluded to various places, it's a bit daunting. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 12:37, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:You completely misunderstand. I'm using you as a sort of stress test -- if you can understand the instructions, anyone can.{{fbdb}} [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:02, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
::Every village needs an idiot. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 15:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::"O let us love our occupations, Bless the squire and his relations, Live upon our daily rations, And always know our proper stations." [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:10, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::"And swallow all our mastications. Burma Shave." --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC) 
::::Wait, I'm supposed to belong to a village? <small>I'm always the last to know these things...<small>Now I have to figure out which village needs me...</small></small> [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 15:29, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::You can join my village. It's a big job for one little old lady in Cincinnati. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 17:14, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::I'm sure I'd run you out of a job if I did. My capacity for idiocy knows no bounds:
::::::*When I was a teenager, me and a group of friends stole a dump truck from the local landfill and took it for a drunken joyride. Past the police station. 
::::::*Later on in my teens, I gave a police officer the name "Bong T. Drueler". To be fair, that cop was even more of an idiot, because he believed me. 
::::::*I once hip-fired a [[Light Fifty]]. While standing on the roof of a building. With my back to the edge. In combat.
::::::*My wife once asked me if her outfit made her look fat, and my half-listening ass responded "Yeah, a lot, actually," because I assumed she was asking me how I was liking the book I was reading. 
::::::*I've brought my kids to the park with no pants on. On more than one occasion. 
::::::*I once sent EEng's talk page to the printer at my (former) job. 
::::::I think I'm less of a village idiot and more of an [[Ecumenopolis]] idiot. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 18:15, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Was it already your former job at that point, or did it become so as a result? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:18, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Heh. I actually answered that question in my edit summary. I was able to cancel the job before it finished spooling. Of course, I probably could have gone home, slept in late the next day and then taken an early lunch, and still had time to cancel it before it finished spooling. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 19:45, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Umm... thank you for your service?
::::::::About your kids in the park, were they pantsless, or were you? (Or both?)
::::::::Thinking about your mishaps, I remember that when I was a young child (I mean, fish), my mother took me to a toy store wanting to buy me a ball to play with. She walked up to a salesman, and asked him: "Do you have balls?" True story. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:12, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, I'm glad someone appreciates my service. There were a bunch of bastards trying to kill me for it for a while there.
:::::::::The kids were pants-less. I haven't stepped out of my house without a pair of blue jeans on since 2006, excepting a few occasions on which I was -horror of horrors- force to wear a suit. 
:::::::::In Iraq, it was fashionable for a bit to teach young ladies how to properly greet an American soldier. There was a day when me and two buddies cornered our interpreter to ask him what "Allah kabeg dek," means, as several young women had greeted us with the phrase, but young men never seemed to use it. 
:::::::::Much to our amusement and (and a bit to our chagrin), rather than a straightforward translation, we got a brief lesson on the effects of speaking unfamiliar English phrases with a regional Arabic accent, and an impromptu education in rural Iraqi toilet humor. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 19:40, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Borat in Cologne.jpg|thumb|upright|Allah kabeg dek! </br>--Tryptoidiot]]
::::::::::I ran that phrase through Google Translate, and they think the language of it is Malay. Interesting, sort of, but not an RS. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:25, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::It's English, I assure you. You've got to say it out loud to understand. Preferably loudly, and in public. You'll know you're saying it right if a woman or a well-dressed man agrees with you.
:::::::::::Don't trust google translate. It will take a guess if it doesn't recognize the words you've entered. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 20:35, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::{{facepalm}}. You got me! But once Google decided that it was Malay, they simply translated it into the standard kind of blessing. Perhaps Google has beg dek envy. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:48, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Wait a minute? Did young Iraqi women really say that to you? Apparently, ''I'm'' the idiot here. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:52, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Cum, I mean, come to think of it, pronouncing it out loud sounds like Borat is saying it. ''Vaan nice!'' --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:55, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::::It's hard to believe I've let myself be reduced to this. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:07, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::No, it isn't. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:10, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Didn't you several years ago swear to turn your back on Wikipedia, never to return? What happened to that? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:32, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::Ha! Several years? No, it was more recently than that. Actually, I've also said repeatedly that I don't wanna be an admin. But maybe it would be worth changing my mind about that too, just so I can join the club and block you.{{FBDB}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::At this point, admins who ''haven't'' blocked me form the more exclusive club. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:40, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::::And we all know what Groucho Marx said about joining clubs! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:24, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::OK, that's it. YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:06, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Yeah, you gotta say it about that loud! [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 21:27, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::[https://www.google.com/search?q=hey+hey+you+get+off+my+cloud&oq=hey+hey+you+get+o&aqs=chrome.0.0i355j46j69i57j0j46j0j0i22i30.4440j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Hey, kids, get off of my lawn!] [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 22:52, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Which is best answered by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f2Do8SNIEk this] [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 23:04, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::<small>I'm generally more inclined to answer with [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8SMmG6sW9k this]. [[User:MjolnirPants|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MjolnirPants|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 05:22, 19 July 2021 (UTC)</small>

== 7falcon23 ==

Regarding your comment in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#7falcon23,_LGBT-phobic_Afds_and_WP:NOTHERE_behavior this discussion], I honestly had considered that possibility after someone else raised it to me. 
I asked Bishonen to take a look days ago, and didn't notice she was on vacation until after hit "save". But before reverting myself and asking someone else about it, I had a brief conversation with an employee who had seen the edit that prompted me to go to Bish, and she mentioned that he might just be a ''very'' conservative gay person, offended not by the thought of the "[[Gay agenda]]", but by nominally straight characters and people "intruding" into gay space. 

I don't think that's actually the case, though. Not sure if that's what you were getting at, but seeing your comment reminded me of that. [[User:MjolnirPants|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MjolnirPants|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 05:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
:It was strictly a case of ''Methinks the lady doth protest too much''. I'm intrigued, however, by your reference to "an employee". ''Your'' employee? You discuss your WP editing with your employee? Is that part of their assigned duties or what? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:45, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
::I've got to be honest, the last virulently homophobic guy I met IRL ended up married to a another man, so I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. 
::About my employee: I'm the lead software developer, in charge of hiring my own team. She's technically a coworker, but I can fire her if I want to. Of course, she's the only one of us with any qualifications in UI design, so that's not likely to happen anytime soon.
::As for WPing at work: No, it's nothing official. She just happened to be sitting with me while we waited for a rather large chunk of code to compile. We'd be chatting about WP, so I hopped on while we waited. That was her first experience with Wikipedia's processes, unfortunately, and she was not impressed (I've tried to stress how uncommon that sort of thing is, but you know how first impressions are).
::She also emailed me [https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31TaSp0E9oL.jpg this link] shortly afterwards. Although I've seen the joke before, I think it's one that bears sharing. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 13:37, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
:::I dated a few US Marines in the 1980s so I know a closet case when I see one. Nice boys when you got them alone, though. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:24, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
::::I couldn't speak to that, but I can analogize to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sMALbhJU6M "Christian women"], from whom I learned that repression can be a great enhancement to the libido, and a powerful motivator to treat one's partner right. I can certainly recognize a "closeted libertine" as it were from a mile off. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 16:39, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
::::{{tps}} A co-worker? At least she's not a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LuHdiEjtX0 cow worker]. <small>... I know a closet bovine veterinarian when I see one!</small>  [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 12:19, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

== Threats on ANI page, in re "White supremacist" thread  ==

EEng,

Don't bother making threats toward me or counting down the hours. It is unworthy behavior. Just do what you're going to do and don't telegraph the punch. Don't even phone it in. [[User:Dynasteria|Dynasteria]] ([[User talk:Dynasteria|talk]]) 12:10, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
:Ha ha ha. ''Telegraph. Phone it in.'' Is that supposed to be some kind of whitebread [[flyting]]?{{refn|Linked since you probably don't know what that is.}} So clever! Get a clue, will you? [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1035579487#%22White-supremacist%22_term:_a_request_for_clarification]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:38, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
::Is that like [[Illegal dumping|flytipping]] but with rhymes? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:42, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
:::It's like [[cow tipping]] but with more bullshit. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]] 15:21, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
::::omg 😂. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:26, 26 July 2021 (UTC) (I never give more than 10%, even for a tight Jersey... )
::::: Had he taken even the briefest glance at this page he'd know '' nothing's'' unworthy of me. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:50, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::EEng will not replace us. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:00, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

=== Slip of the tongue ===

Hey EEng, I just noticed now, and I'm sure it's just a slip of the tongue, but your misspelling of that user's name [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=1035659793&oldid=1035656769 here] is rather [[Dysentery|unfortunate]], and you might want to correct that. <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">☿&nbsp;[[User:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#6a0dad">Apaugasma</span>]] ([[User talk:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Apaugasma|☉]])</span> 03:52, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
:It's very sweet of you to bring this unfortunate error to my attention, Aspartame. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:55, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
::What ever would [[The Psychopathology of Everyday Life|Sigismund]] have said? [[User:Martinevans123|A. P. Orgasma 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 09:05, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
:::Probably something about [[Mother (Danzig song)|my mother]]. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''Mother's Panties'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me about your childhood fantasies...'']]</small></small> 13:43, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
::::I suspect that EEng can do all manner of things with his tongue. And {{smiley|27}} is the least of it. --[[Plectorhinchinae|Sweetiefish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:31, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
::Glad to have sweetened your tongue, EEng! If ever you need any artificial sugarcoating, you know you can count on me. <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">C<sub>14</sub>H<sub>18</sub>N<sub>2</sub>O<sub>5</sub>&nbsp;[[User:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#6a0dad">Aspartame</span>]] ([[User talk:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Apaugasma|🍬]])</span> 21:38, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
::EEng, your [[Mae West Lips Sofa|slips]] are sweet (as sweet as [[Candyman (character)|candy]]), but [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sXiYwxkWY4 honey...] [[Sweetest Thing|Sweet Bono 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:45, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
:::It's time for me to [[Sugary drink tax|lay down the law]], before anyone gets [[hyperglycemia]]. --[[Sugar glider]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:54, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
::::[[Saccharin Study and Labeling Act of 1977|One lump or two]]?  -- [[Sugar Me|Sugar me sideways 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 10:20, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::One is plenty, especially if it is laced with [[Lumpy skin disease|LSD]]. --[[Lumpy Gravy]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|sweet talk]]) 19:24, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::Now just hang on there, you old [[Cyclopteridae|lumpersucker]]. I don't want to [[Lumpers and splitters|split hairs]]... but I think you'll find those are [[My Humps|MY wiki lumps]]!!  -- [[Lumpenproletariat|L. Ron Lumpenburger III]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:25, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::Well, I'll try to [[Hang On Little Tomato|hang on]], old [[suckermouth]]. --[[Lumphead cichlid]] ([[Sweet Talk and Good Lies]]) 21:08, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::I guess you can't teach an old [[Lump (dog)|lump]] new [[The Lump|lumpy tricks]] -- [[Lump (song)|Weird Al Lumpovic]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:59, 29 July 2021 (UTC): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQwWaWFjd0Y]
:::::::::You can teach her to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sj_U6vObUA sit alone in a boggy marsh] though. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''She's in my head'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''She might be dead...'']]</small></small> 22:09, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::<small>Thank you for explaining [[You Can Call Me Al|Weird Al]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:16, 29 July 2021 (UTC) </small>
:::::::::::And I thought we were [[Top Chef: Just Desserts|just discussing desserts]]. But it's become a pain in the aspartame. [[Sugar Rush (2018 TV series)|Too Much]] [[User talk:Tryptofish|Sugar]] 22:20, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::Talking about me behind my crack, are you now? <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em">C<sub>14</sub>H<sub>18</sub>N<sub>2</sub>O<sub>5</sub>&nbsp;[[User:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#6a0dad">Aspartame</span>]] ([[User talk:Apaugasma|<span style="color:#000">talk</span>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Apaugasma|🍬]])</span> 23:17, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

==Admin instructions==
There is an error in the DYK admin instructions that you wrote and I hesitate to try to adjust a template that I don't understand. Under the "Move to Queue" heading it currently states at instruction 1, "Open the prep for editing, and open the same-numbered queue for editing. (Next prep: Template:Did you know/Queue/5; next queue: Template:Did you know/Queue/5.)" The first template mentioned here should refer to Prep5 rather than Queue5.

While I am mentioning improvements, in instruction 2, it would be nice to have a "tlx" template like this one {{tlx|Picture of the day|''YYYY-MM-DD''}} to simplify copying the DYKbotdo template. Thanks. [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 05:45, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
:I fixed the Prep link. As for the other, I pinged you from the edit summary and you probably should follow my edit with an edit of your own. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
::You misunderstood me. The POTD example is given in the POTD instructions and I find it makes copying the template easier when I am doing Picture of the Day. It appears that putting "tlx" at the beginning of a template makes it display in a sort of "box" in the instructions which makes it easier to copy. In the DYK admin instructions, copying this DYKbotdo template is something that needs to be done every time as part of the routine of moving prep to queue. The matter is of no importance, just a matter of convenience. [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 09:59, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
:::I still don't understand. I think you want me to put the POTD tlx somewhere, but I don't at all get where. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:25, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
::::Never mind. Let's forget it. [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 18:56, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::Another satisfied customer. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:04, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::I just want to point out that this is me ''not'' making jokes about shoving POTDs in places and ending up satisfied. 
::::::I'm ''far'' too cultured for such nonsense. [[User:MjolnirPants|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MjolnirPants|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 01:07, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::[[Gram positive]] or [[gram negative]]? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:41, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::[[Kulcha|In fact]], quite [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQTyKehhpek neutral]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:59, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Is that like a [[graham cracker]]? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:32, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

== Agnostic behavior in hens ==
[[File:The Saviour of mankind adopts the figure of the hen.png|thumb|right|[[Agnostic]] hens? <br><br><small>[https://evangelicalfocus.com/zoe/4813/roosters-and-hens-in-the-bible "Who gives the rooster its understanding?"] ([[Job]] 38:36) </small>-- [[User:Martinevans123|Me123]]]]
"The repercussions of not providing adequate foraging and scratching opportunities to hens are that agnostic behaviors increase." - [https://doi.org/10.1016/B978-0-12-800879-9.00008-1] I'm guessing they meant [[agonistic behavior]], but it made me wonder: what ''does'' agnostic behavior in hens look like? [[User:Levivich|Levivich]] 03:25, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:Well, according to [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Feeder-space-guidelines-for-laying-hens-adopted-in-United-States-Canada-and-EU_tbl1_325453862] agnostic behaviors include "head pecks, steps, pushes, threats, and chases", so that's what you can expect when the seeds of doubt are sown in the coop. I suppose you want us to believe you just ''happened'' to be reading Chapter 8, ("Enrichments in Cages") in ''Egg Innovations and Strategies for Improvements''.
:Anyway, that rooster did deny Him three times, or something. Also:
:*"The hens in our charter flock turned me from chicken agnostic to borderline obsessed." [https://www.hobbyfarms.com/tag/hens/]
:*"But what does the American Egg Board think? ... 'We are agnostic in that respect,' said Dresner, the group’s spokesman." [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/brown-white-eggs-difference_n_5a8af33be4b00bc49f46fc45]
:*[[The Agony and the Ecstasy (novel)|The Agonism and the Exorcism]]
:*[https://ffrf.org/outreach/item/13355-why-i-am-an-agnostic Agnostic behavior in an attorney]{{refn|Seriously, if you've never read this, do. Brilliant and beautiful.}}
:[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:28, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
::First [[JS Mill]], now [[Clarence Darrow]]? We need to renew our wedding vows before you start quoting [[Ray Bradbury|Bradbury]] or [[e e cummings]] to me. And of course no one just ''happens'' to be reading Chapter 8, ("Enrichments in Cages") in ''Egg Innovations and Strategies for Improvements''. I happened to be reading Chapter 7 and went too far. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]] 13:49, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:::"If they ate it avidly while stamping their feet and scattering it here and there, the augury was favorable... "Maybe they could  [https://www.rootsimple.com/2012/06/the-sacred-chickens-of-ancient-rome/ predict bitcoin movements]? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:46, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
::::Is every egg sacred, [https://youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk too], or just the Roman ones? [[User:Levivich|Levivich]] 15:55, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
::Well. Hobby farmers. Of course they "used to be chicken agnostic". [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 16:07, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::Every egg is estimable, no ovum otiose. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:22, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::Please note: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yIl548MTwE Islamic miracle chicken] .... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l_9dxWLvBE or not]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 16:36, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::User:EEgg. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:52, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Zombie [[Poultrygeist: Night of the Chicken Dead|Easter Egg]]? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:55, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Or just playing chicken. (Actually, I didn't know that it was a [[Chicken (game)|game bird]].) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:12, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::"You put yo left arm out.... yo right arm [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lCI63H1neY&list=RD8lCI63H1neY&start_radio=1 too]!" [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:48, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::I count on Martin to be my wing-man. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:55, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::::You got it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chcEkWbUS90 dude]! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:59, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::::::I [[The Big Lebowski|abide]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:06, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:''See also:'' The picture I posted [[#Expertise Required|here]]. (But first, cross your legs.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:12, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

=== Ok ===

Re the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Grigori_Rasputin&diff=1036609176&oldid=1036599353 Talk:Grigori Rasputin archive page size] I'll admit 100K seems fine to me but ok. Keeping your edit summary of ''jumping around from one little page to another little page to another little page serves no one. This is the modern age -- 500K is nothing.'' in mind I moved it back to 700K and am assuming that will be more agreeable going forward. Cheers.[[User:Shearonink|Shearonink]] ([[User talk:Shearonink|talk]]) 17:10, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:See [[User:EEng#correct]]. Saves time. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:16, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
::Well I carefully thought about the size of archive pages and I decided if someone else finds a different size better-suited to their enjoyment of Wikipedia, more power to them. [[User:Shearonink|Shearonink]] ([[User talk:Shearonink|talk]]) 21:47, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
:::Your discernment is impeccable. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:59, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
::::As per the talk section immediately above, it may not necessarily be impeckable. (And whatever you do, never say "your pecker is discernable.") --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:03, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::Or even "your pecker is indiscernable." We can't have talk pages getting [[The Incredible Shrinking Dickies|too small]], can we. lol. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:19, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::Just so you understand, {{U|Shearonink}}, this kind of behavior goes on all the time around here and you mustn't take it personally. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:22, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::True, I (followed by Martin) took this discussion down-hill awfully fast, even by the standards of this page. Sorry, EEgg. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:25, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::Hey, wait a minute! This was about Rasputin? And about size? OMG! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:27, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Bah. I've seen photos of that pickled pecker. I ain't impressed. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 21:36, 2 August 2021
:::::::<small>The [[Lipstick on a pig|"standards of this page"]], lol. Don't worry {{U|Shearonink}}, plenty [[Big Hole|deeper depths]] to plumb, I'm sure. -- [[Peter Piper|Peter Pecker 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:41, 2 August 2021 (UTC) </small>
:::::::::Yeah, I was gonna say (or at least ''try'' to say) "Peter Piper picked a pep of pickled peckers", but Marty beat me to it. <small>Stop beating me! Help! Help!</small> --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:45, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::<small>Peter Piper plumbed a pot of pickled pecker. A pickled pecker poked a part of Peter Piper. If Peter Piper poked a popsy with a pickled pecker, where's the pot of pickled peckers Peter Piper plumbed?</small> [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 21:47, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::<small>MPants Piper popped a plot of POV pushers. MPants pecker poo-pooed Rasputin's pickled pee-pee. Pickled plumbing pecked at Panties... oh, nevermind. --[[Pipefish]] ([[American pickerel]]) 21:54, 2 August 2021 (UTC)</small>
::::::::::::<small>So much for [[ichthyophobia]]. See what your blatant [[Igor Girkin|gherkin madness]] can do to poor girls like [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd2uDOIYKN0 this]!! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:09, 2 August 2021 (UTC) </small>
::::::::::::<small>Oooh, topical word play. Gettin' fancy on me. [[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MPants at work|''Ask me where my handle comes from.'']]</small></small> 22:10, 2 August 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::::::::::::<small>Afraid of ''me''? That would be [[trypophobia]], you lotus blossoms! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:12, 2 August 2021 (UTC)</small>
::::::::::::::<small> Bah! [[Four Yorkshiremen sketch|That's nothing]]. I've actually got [[Lotus Elise|Lotusphobia]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:17, 2 August 2021 (UTC) </small>
:::::::::::::::<small>Well, you are what [[Lotus-eaters|you eat]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:24, 2 August 2021 (UTC)</small>

== Christchurch ==

But you must see things from my perspective, your name was uttered, I expected nothing. Then a whirlwind of destruction was brought upon the page. I feared that you would go too far and could not be stopped. I wondered if I could call your name when I was in need, I feared that one day you would be called against me. I laughed at your jokes, then cringed at how I would feel if they were directed at me. I read some of your talk page. This world was not meant for me. I shall return to my corner of Wikipedia and hope you never find me. Thank you for your recent work.[[User:Dushan Jugum|Dushan Jugum]] ([[User talk:Dushan Jugum|talk]]) 12:09, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
:You're, um, welcome. I think. Verily and forsooth. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 12:19, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

== Rules for DYK's review requirement ==

Hi there. {{diff|Wikipedia talk:Did you know|prev|1038139904|My edit}} brought about {{diff|Wikipedia:Requests for comment/WikiProjects and collaborations|prev|1038147152|a fix}} to the RfC listing entry; {{diff|Wikipedia talk:Did you know|prev|1038157673|your revert}} caused it to {{diff|Wikipedia:Requests for comment/WikiProjects and collaborations|prev|1038163389|break again}}, along with the full listing (see [[WP:RFC/A#WikiProjects and collaborations|WP:RFC/A]] from that point down to the bottom of the page). Nothing was falsified: it's a [[WP:RFCBRIEF|brief statement of the matter at hand]], mostly copypasted from what you had already written. Please undo your revert so that the RfC listings are no longer broken; if you like, you can omit the signature but the timestamp does need to stay. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:48, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
:There really is something seriously wrong with you. ''Pasting my signature onto something that I did not write is falsification'', even if it's "mostly copypasted" from something I actually did write (well, half of it anyway{{snd}}the other half was stuff you just pulled out of your ass) .{{pb}}Every interaction I have with you is over your apparent belief that editors should twist themselves into pretzels to accommodate some broken bot, or that an article must omit something it ought to include because someone's spellchecking kiddiescript can't handle it, or something like that. ''Editors and readers outrank software. It exists for us, not we for it. Fix the software, don't harangue people to bend to the robot's mindless demands.'' Get that through your head. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:26, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
::I don't suppose you can calm down and take a deep breath, please? [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 13:32, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
:::That ''was'' after calming down. He's lucky I didn't reach through the internet and throttle him. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:11, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Benny Hill.JPG|thumb|The civility police<br><br>{{small|EEng in his previous role as "[[Buttons (pantomime)|Official Wikipedia concierge]]". --ME123}}]]
::::If I need to calm down and take a deep breath, I dress up as Cleopatra and rub strawberry jam all over myself. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 13:32, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::Wait a second, Ritchie. Did you write that, or did someone paste your signature onto something mostly copypasted from what you had already written? [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=1038139904] [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1038265372] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:15, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::Of course I didn't write that. I prefer raspberry jam. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 14:16, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::Strawberry jam?? Very [[Donkey milk|over-rated]]. <small>"[[Ernie (The Fastest Milkman in the West)|"He said, "D'you want it pasturised? Cause pasturised is best," She says, "Ernie, I'll be happy if it comes up to my chest."]]"</small>. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:18, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Jam's overrated in general. Just eat fruit. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 19:41, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::<small>Ooo no! A [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfpRm-p7qlY Wiki Called Malice]?? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:57, 11 August 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::::::Just another day on this talkpage. EEng gets himself into a jam, and Martin milks it for all it's worth. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:55, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Hahaha. And don't forget our own resident [[Curse of the pharaohs|Ritch Admin Pharaoh]]. --[[Howard Carter|Peter Carter-Ruck Off 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:05, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
[[File:George H. W. Bush and Arnold Schwarzenegger sledding at Camp David.jpg|thumb|Arnie on steroids<br><br>{{small|"Way ta go, EEng! Show these darned bots ya mean business!" --[[User:Martinevans123|Dubya POTUS 123]]}}<br><br>{{small|[https://depositphotos.com/13982829/stock-illustration-cartoon-98-pound-weakling.html And off steriods]. --LittleFish}}]]
*Point of fact: the RfC processes (including maintenance of the listings) are undertaken by {{user|Legobot}}, except for the [[WP:FRS]] notifications which have been devolved to {{user|Yapperbot}}. If you have a problem with how Legobot operates, please direct your comments to the bot operator, who is {{user|Legoktm}}. There is absolutely ''nothing'' that I can do to amend its code, so [[WP:NPA|don't punch out at me]] for trying to explain where problems lie. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:49, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
*:You must have some kind of hi-tech exoskeleton that block entry of any kind of clue. I've known you for years, and every time you "explain where problems lie", you always, automatically, implicitly, and unfailingly blame humans for not conforming to some technical stupidity, as you did in your OP here and are now doing ''again''. It's incredible. I have no "problem with how the bot operates", ''you'' have a problem with how it operates, ''you'' are upset that it's not doing what you feel it should do, but for some reason you came here to complain to ''me'' about what ''it'' was doing, and wanted me to fix it. ''You'' go talk to the bot operator. I don't give a shit. Do you get it now? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:07, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
*Okay, now we've discussed my sexual preferences for jam, the serious point. I've met Redrose in real life and he's a nice guy, and not the sort of chap to bite your head off, so I think "{{xt|the other half was stuff you just pulled out of your ass}}" is misguided. More to the point, if you haven't seen the recent drama on ANI and Arbcom (and to be honest those of us who ''have'' wish we hadn't), there's a bit of a push to take [[WP:CIVIL]] a bit more seriously, and I'd hate for you to be caught in the crossfire. Even though ''I'' know that a "you have been blocked for personal attacks for 24 hours / 1 week / 6 months / 47 years / the age of the universe" message here from an obliging admin doesn't ''defuse'' drama, it ''diffuses'' it. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 20:06, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
*:Wholly concur that Redrose64 is one of the most moderate, reasonable and collaborative editors, not some kind of [[Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines|mutant cyborg Arnie on steroids]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:17, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
*::He can be all those things and still have the stubborn blind spot I've described. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:07, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
*:Ritchie, he ''fabricated a post (out of stuff he made up -- i.e. "pulled out of his ass") and forged my sig to make it look like I had written it'', all because he couldn't sleep at night knowing that some bot's output had unbalanced braces. Did you miss that? I'm glad he's sweet in person but stupid sweetness is not enough. He has yet to give even the slightest acknowledgement of that wrongness of what he did, so instead of talking to me how 'bout you try to get him to do that? Good seeing you, BTW. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:07, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
*OK, I went to look at what happened, and here is what I think. EEng wrote the top part of an RfC, the part that appears on the list(s) of active RfCs, with his signature and timestamp at the end. It's <s>an incredibly verbose and lengthy RfC introduction</s> an RfC introduction written in EEng's unmistakable style. As a result, when the bot listed it on the RfC list page, the lengthy RfC introduction appeared with a correct link to the talk page where the RfC is. As is supposed to happen. But it was difficult (maybe impossible, but I didn't try very hard) to find EEng's autograph at the end of the introduction. As is not supposed to happen, not to mention a grievous loss for [[nobody (username)|everyone who breathlessly waits to see EEng's wonderful username]].
:So Redrose added some text at the top of the talk page section, to create a brief RfC question, and put EEng's signature at the end. And the bot did whatever it did at the RfC list page.
:And EEng objects to having something written by ''someone else'', but ''over his signature'', when he, in fact, did not write it. I'd object to that, too. '''EEng was right''' to take offense at it, and Redrose should not have done it that way, even though Redrose was acting in good faith and sincerely believed that he was making the RfC work better.
:So, Redrose, please don't do that again. You can ask the RfC-initiating editor to make it shorter, or you can just let it go and not worry about. The world does not come to an end if the RfC list page looks messy. (Probably, fewer editors will respond to the messy-looking RfC, which has a certain poetic justice to it.)
:And EEng, calm the fuck down.{{fbdb}} You're usually such a sweetie pie.{{dubious}} And nobody needs a yelling match. And Ritchie is right about the recent spate of ANI clusterfucks over being nice and not using "fuck" in a sentence. It wouldn't be worth having an ANI experience over that. I've just spent the last few days dealing with a couple of those ANI threads, and I'm getting too old for this shit. (I used to be an old fart, but I ran out of gas). --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:57, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
::Thank you for taking the time. For the record, it's not that my RfC intro was long, but rather that it incorporated a collapse box containing the discussion of the prior proposal, and that confuses the bot (details on request). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:23, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
:::Needless to say, but I'll say it anyway: you're welcome. No need for any bot-ly details. And it's good to know that you did not, in fact, suffer a loss of blather control. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:12, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Now I'm wondering if you're going to rip Shibbolethink a new one for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&type=revision&diff=1038652873&oldid=1038652691 moving your AE comment, giving it a new section and adding a ping.] [[User:Pawnkingthree|Pawnkingthree]] ([[User talk:Pawnkingthree|talk]]) 22:07, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
:Don't. Them's the rules. Comment in yer own seck-shun. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:14, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
:I knew it. They're all [[Ministry of Truth|in it together]]!! [[Doublethink|Winstonsmith123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:17, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
::Not to mention [[WP:TINC|the Cabal]]. No, really, don't mention it! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:20, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

== DYK proposal clarity ==
[[File:Tophat.jpg|thumb|upright|Tryptofish has brought you a delicious dinner. <small>And don't we all think EEng would look good in a tophat?</small><br>PS: It probably tastes better with some [[Skippy (peanut butter)|Skippy peanut butter]] on it.<br><br>{{small|"[[Trip the light fantastic|Trypty]]" you can be [[Ginger Fish|Ginger]] to EEng's [[Fred Flintstone|Fred]]!}}<br>{{small|"[[Marty (film)|Marty]]", [[You're the Top|Baby, if I'm the bottom, you're the top!]] (I only recently realized that Cole Porter used that double entendre.)}}<br>{{small|I'll take a [[It's Raining Men|rain-check]] dude, I heard [[Bottom feeder|all the rumours]].}}<br>{{small|That's OK, but I'm no [[Catfishing|catfish]].}}]]

Re. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know&oldid=prev&diff=1038394968] (thanks for the ping) - maybe it got lost in the length of comment, but I don't think I ever said reviews would grind to a standstill, just that a backlog would still be around but with (more) noms by regular editors, which I think is accurate. And that, IMO, with the novice editors more relied on to do those reviews, but not required to do more than one, the new backlog would go by even slower. But I'm not voting, and it seems nobody cares, so *shrug*. [[User:Kingsif|Kingsif]] ([[User talk:Kingsif|talk]]) 09:51, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
:Tell you what. If this phenomenon you have in mind actually materializes when the new policy is implemented -- and at this point it's clear it will be implemented -- then I'll eat my hat (whatever that means on Wikipedia). And if it doesn't, why then I'll think of some appropriate way of rubbing it in your face. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:56, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
:1. thank god "skip to bottom" exists. 2. please be creative ;) [[User:Kingsif|Kingsif]] ([[User talk:Kingsif|talk]]) 12:04, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
::{{small|You [[Skip to the Good Bit|said it]]. [[Skippy the Bush Kangaroo|Skippy 123]]  ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:12, 12 August 2021 (UTC)}}

== One fish, two fish, cat fish, dog fish ==

I came across something that might be useful to the curator of museums.

From our article on [[Catshark]]: "'''Catsharks''' are [[Carcharhiniformes |ground shark]]s of the [[family (biology) |family]] '''Scyliorhinidae'''. They are one of the largest families of sharks with around 160 species placed in 17 genera. Although they are generally known as catsharks, many species are commonly called '''dogfish'''..."

--[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:43, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
:Is a ground shark anything like a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_NS2H55dxI land shark]? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:11, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
::Well, if you ground it, you are less likely to be shocked by it. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:18, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
::But the land shark is, indeed, a [[swell shark]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:23, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
::For those unfamiliar with the topic, in a typical pod of sharks, there are (1) the positive (or "hot") shark, (2) the negative shark, and (3) the ground shark. Together, they form what is called a "plug". When met by another group of sharks, those other sharks are called a "receptacle". The combination of a plug and a receptacle results in a "circuit". --[[User:Tryptofish|Electric fish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:40, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
	
:::[[Electric Eel Shock|Sounds great]]!! Enjoyed our delicious [[Shark fin soup|shark pod]], why not try our tasty [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uH5AhFh8UI Lobster Bisque]??  -- [[Obesity in the United States|Bikini Whale 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:45, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
::::But don't be fooled by a [[Typhlonectidae|rubber eel]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:50, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::Ooooooo. Does it taste anything like a [[rubber chicken]]?? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:57, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::Yes. It goes well with a [[Rubber Biscuit]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:00, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Ah yes. The original's always [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz0UvIZw-Y0 best]. "You want [[The Chips|fries]] with that?" [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:05, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::What a great recording that is! And from 1956, the year I was born. (Sorry, that's not funny, but I just wanted to say it.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:17, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Ah, lovely. A great year for [[Suez Crisis|canals]] and [[Hungarian Revolution of 1956|goulash]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:28, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::Age before beauty, cutie! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:33, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

== In response to your comments at the MoS ==

I will respond here because of [[WP:NOTFORUM]], but only briefly. My point is simply that written and spoken language serve separate purposes, and that written language can and often does have a separate, independent existence from spoken language, to the point where its ability to be spoken is irrelevant. Furthermore, I wanted to clearly indicate that spoken language is not inherently dominant over or primary to written language (i.e. the 'base' to writing's 'superstructure'). I was thinking of Classical Chinese, and more specifically, [[Kanbun]]. Certainly, Kanbun can be read out as it is written, but no one will understand what it means if that is done. It will simply be a bunch of random, incomprehensible sounds, which is what one hears when one listens to something like a monk reciting the [[Heart Sutra]]. That can hardly be considered 'spoken language', if 'language' is defined as something that conveys meaning. Kanbun can only have meaning when one reads the specific characters displayed, and deciphers their meaning through their association with ideas, irrespective of sound. If one looks at the unaltered text of the Heart Sutra, it is possible to decipher it in a way that is not possible from hearing it spoken. It functions solely as a written text, rather than a spoken text. Furthermore, Kanbun offers a mode of translation, called kundoku, which can 'translate' Classical Chinese into a version of Japanese that can be spoken and understood. This is a complicated process, but it is only possible because the text is capable of existing independent of sound and spoken language, through the use of Chinese characters. I don't care to write more here, but if you read Japanese, you might consider reading [[Fukuda Tsuneari]]'s ''Watakushi no Kokugo Kyoushitsu'' for more information. [[User:RGloucester|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">RGloucester </span>]] — [[User talk:RGloucester|☎]] 11:55, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
::''Our royal visitor refers to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1039906064#Difficult_to_pronounce].''
:All you're telling me is that either (a) Kanbun never was the writing system of a natural language (and my comments explicitly restricted themselves to natural languages), or (b) whatever spoken form or forms it once had are no longer in use, and therefore incomprehensible to listeners today. By your reasoning, Egyptian hieroglyphic doesn't represent spoken language.{{pb}}If you read English, you might consider reading John Wilkins's ''[[An Essay Towards a Real Character, and a Philosophical Language]]'' for more information. (Though in many ways completely wrong, it's still full of insight and very pleasurable to read). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:32, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
::I'm too lazy to look, but does MOS currently discourage using the apostrophe as in Jesus' or Sisyphus'? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:53, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
:::It's true, you really are lazy. [[WP:Manual_of_Style#Singular_nouns]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:34, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
::::That from someone who had to point out that he is not a moron, because otherwise it would have not been clear: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AManual_of_Style&type=revision&diff=1039824653&oldid=1039808226]. By the way, I have no opinion either way in the argument you are having here, because arguing about MOS is like counting angels [[Zip the Pinhead|on the head of a pin]]. I mean, really, why have a rule about [[Syphilis|Sisyphus's]] but not Sisyphus', and then make an exception only for [[sake]]? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:47, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::My anxiety to state the obvious stemmed from uncertainty about perspicacity of my interlocutor (see, for example, his post below) not the objective facts. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:52, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
::You did not clearly limit your comments to so-called 'natural languages' (and I would dispute the validity of that term anyway). I was responding to your proclamation that 'writing is fundamentally a visual embodiment of speech'. If you cannot see that this is not the case, I do not know what to tell you. Kanbun is a written language that works by conveying ideas, rather than sound. The ideas can be related to a comprehensible sound after the fact through a complex system of translation, but ideas are its primary mode of function. But as I say, I yield. I should not've expected much understanding for this cause in this, a place of <ruby>功利主義<rp>(</rp> <rt>utilitarianism</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>. [[User:RGloucester|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">RGloucester </span>]] — [[User talk:RGloucester|☎]] 20:17, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
:::*{{tq|You did not clearly limit your comments to so-called 'natural languages'}}{{snd}}What part of {{tq|That writing (in natural languages, anyway) represents that which can be spoken is a bedrock axiom}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1039800341] escaped your comprehension?
:::*{{tq|and I would dispute the validity of that term anyway}}{{snd}}Chomsky would disagree with you [https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2012.0077] but maybe you know better. If you like I can get you on the phone with one one of his students so you can make your case.
:::You call this {{tq|a place of utilitarianism}} like it's a bad thing! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:52, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::You might consider the chronology of your remarks, and see that, at the time I took issue with your proclamation, you had yet to make any such specification. You might take note that I attempted to demonstrate my point above. Anyone that understands Chinese characters can understand the meaning of the above, irrespective of sound. Ruby characters can be added to indicate sound, but this is a secondary consideration. Even English can easily be written in Chinese characters, primarily because the characters function primarily in the realm of ideas, rather than that of sound. But I yield, I yield! For in this, the world of today, language has been reduced to a mechanical, machine-readable mode of industrial communication. Ambiguity is despised, interpretation unnecessary. In such a world, it is no surprise that the phoneticists reign supreme. If only I were as learned as the great Mr EEng, I wonder what my life might have been. Alas, I have been condemned to the domain of the folderol, for I am so impudent as to seek the treasures hidden in the land of things immaterial. Farewell, [[User:RGloucester|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">RGloucester </span>]] — [[User talk:RGloucester|☎]] 13:26, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
::::::*{{tq|I yield, I yield!}}{{snd}}And yet like a moth to the flame you keep returning for more.
::::::*{{tq|at the time I took issue with your proclamation, you had yet to make any such specification}}{{snd}}You continued taking issue long after I "made the specification" i.e. spelled out for you that which is taken for granted by anyone who knows the first thing about the subject, and even now the [[Dunning-Kruger effect]] blinds you to what a fool you continue making of yourself{{snd}}''as usual''.
::::::*{{tq|If only I were as learned as the great Mr EEng}}{{snd}}Let's take things in achievable steps{{snd}}maybe start by being as learned as you ''imagine yourself to be''.
::::::*{{tq|Ambiguity is despised, interpretation unnecessary ... I am so impudent as to seek the treasures hidden in the land of things immaterial}}{{snd}}Oh poor you, stranded in your mountaintop cave gazing into your navel, alone and unwanted, with nary a single visit from supplicants seeking enlightenment for lo these many years now. I'm a published author in computer science ''and'' the history of medicine ''and'' a major literary journal so if you're casting around for technocrats reducing language to a {{tq|mechanical, machine-readable mode of industrial communication}}, aim your [[Mr. Magoo]] blunderbuss elsewhere please. Maybe ''you'' find yourself siloed off in some intellectual backwater, but I am not.
::::::*{{tq|Farewell!}}{{snd}}If only it were so, O [[Jacob_Rees-Mogg|Honourable Member for the 15th century]].
::::::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:34, 22 August 2021 (UTC) <small>P.S. Still no word from [[Princes in the Tower|your nephews]]? Between you and me I'm beginning to worry something's happened to them.</small>
::::::::You are verily irascible, Mr EEng, and yet, I am left no choice but to prostrate myself before you. For what it is worth, I am also a published author. Regrettably, I am relegated to the inconsequential field of Japanese studies. I also reckon that I am quite green in comparison to you, Mr EEng. Perhaps with the benefit of age, I shall come to understand the nature of your opinions on this matter, and indeed, your greatness in the general sense. In the meantime, I do hope you might consider that you may well be a victim of the very phenomenon you cite, and that there may be alternative viewpoints on this subject that allow for the acknowledgement of the intangible value pregnant in a language of ideas, independent from the realm of the spoken. In any case, I hope I have not engendered in you any sort of hostility. Forgive me, Mr EEng. [[User:RGloucester|<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">RGloucester </span>]] — [[User talk:RGloucester|☎]] 17:00, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::*{{tq|You are verily irascible}}{{snd}}I'm not angry or upset in the slightest.
:::::::::*{{tq|I am also a published author}}{{snd}}I raised the point only because you counted me (and please don't deny it) among those reducing language to a mechanical, machine-readable blah blah blah blah blah.
:::::::::*{{tq|you might consider that you may well be a victim of the very phenomenon you cite}}{{snd}}Not likely. I really know this stuff.
:::::::::*{{tq|alternative viewpoints}}{{snd}}Unfortunately you reject basic definitions of linguistics, so there's no common ground from which to discuss whatever it is you keep trying to say.
:::::::::*{{tq|I hope I have not engendered in you any sort of hostility}}{{snd}}All are welcome. Just please try to read ''carefully'' what the others are saying, and respond to that instead of something you're imagining theysaid.
:::::::::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:01, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
{{od|::::::::}}Both you guys sure is erudite! Hot diggity! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:56, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
:Be quiet or Gloucester and I will have you murdered in the Tower. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:01, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
::Well, I'm simply trying to figure this out. You're concerned about the perspiration of your interrogator, and he's got a green prostate. And I still don't know what's so special about saké. And now there's [[Tower of London test|a test]]? Involving [[Mordor]]? (''When the moon hits your eye like a big piece of pie, that's a moron! That's a moron!'') --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:45, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
:::Ahem, I think you'll find it's actually [[Moray eel|'''a moray''']]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SezOrE0zRFo]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:48, 29 August 2021 (UTC) {{small|And hey, EEng, hands off our favourite [[Jacob Rees-Mogg|Honourable Plonker for the 18th century]]!!}} p.s. "Like a gay tarantella... Lucky fella..."
::::Oh, I know that! It's a particularly popular joke in the aquarium hobby. And besides, I'm no moron. (For that matter, it isn't a big piece of pie, either, paisan.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:16, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

==Wikipedia search algorithm reads your soul==
[[File:Wikipedia search algorithm profiles user EEng.png|thumb|Wikipedia search algorithm profiles user EEng]]
I thought this was odd, then I looked at your user page to try to see why this happened. I failed to see anything. Does this mean something to you? [[User:Bluerasberry|<span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">''' Blue Rasberry '''</span>]][[User talk:Bluerasberry|<span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">(talk)</span>]] 20:25, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
:The description matches [[Wikipedia:Queen Elizabeth slipped majestically into the water]]. Why the search algorithm thinks that is EEng's profile is a different question. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 20:44, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
::It scans the page until it gets to [[User:EEng#Queen Elizabeth slipped majestically into the water]], and that's the first short desc it runs into. Could have been worse -- it could have picked up ''deranged sociopath'' (from the images after the big blue box in [[User:EEng#You might say he fucked the country over]]). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:42, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

== goalpost movement, misdescription, and harrassment ==

"{{green|The stuff about goalposts and "misdescribing" is just shit you made up.}}"
*When someone asked "if we have a speedy consensus to remove the above mentioned phrase", you set the goalpost by saying "Give it a couple of days." So we gave it a couple days, something closer to a week, during which there were no fresh objections to the edit... at which point you reverted the edit. Having met passed the original goalposts you set was not sufficient.
* in your [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style&diff=1040841873&oldid=1040840198 reversion summary], you said "A couple of people saying they don't get the point isn't enough to remove it". It was more than two people, and they were saying more than that they don't get the point. It was a consensus in a discussion that you were choosing to misdescribe.
*You addressed me as "pilgrim" in that reversion summary, in a manner that reflects the way racist John Wayne would use in on-screen personas to address those he felt superior to . When I took offense at that, you seem to have reckoned that you had found a way under my skin and chose to, like some second grade playground bully, use it repeatedly to refer to me in a little harassment campaign. 

I ask that you retract the claim about me making shit up. I warn that if you continue your harassment campaign, I am willing to take it to ANI. --[[User:NatGertler|Nat Gertler]] ([[User talk:NatGertler|talk]]) 12:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
*"Pilgrim" could easily be seen as addressing you as a farsighted explorer and adventurer, an honorable name although with puritan overtones. And call John Wayne a racist to his face, double dare you! [[User:Randy Kryn|Randy Kryn]] ([[User talk:Randy Kryn|talk]]) 14:49, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
*:"... get off your horse and drink your milk"..... or, well, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBBS_tC4eRE something like that, anyway]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:56, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:::Martinevens, with your racist film clip you are obviously mocking me because I stutter, you goddamned mean son of a bitch. If you continue your harassment campaign I am willing to take you to ANI (where I will buy you a drink...hell, why not, a round for everyone). [[User:Randy Kryn|Randy Kryn]] ([[User talk:Randy Kryn|talk]]) 15:08, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::::Well Gee, howdy, pardner! Make mine "[[Milk of amnesia]]"! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:20, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:::::[for those humor impaired and/or Code Enforcement Officer wannabbes, 1) what the heck are you doing on this talk page?, 2) watch the whole John Wayne clip linked by Martinevans which explains my code-unenforced language.] [[User:Randy Kryn|Randy Kryn]] ([[User talk:Randy Kryn|talk]]) 22:41, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::::::Uh-oh, looks like we may now have some "discussion board" [[The Pilgrim's Progress|progress]]... maybe someone's looking for a [http://pilgrimschoice.com/ "megablock"]? {{fbdb}} [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:12, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

::''Our visitor refers to [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1041581450#Difficult_to_pronounce]:''
*''Couple'' is an elastic term. In Islam, ''pilgrim'' is title of honor. And what does John Wayne's racism have to do with anything? In the old days racism was all the rage, just as indignant demands for apologies are today. Now begone before I denounce you as an Islamophobe. Pilgrim. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:03, 1 September 2021 (UTC) <small>''BTW, second-grade'' has a hyphen.''</small>
[[File:Nelumbo Nucifera fruit - botanic garden Adelaide.jpg|200px|thumb|alt=Lotus seed head|The holes in [[WP:AN/I|Wiki-seedier dramahboards]] elicit feelings of discomfort or repulsion in some people. --Lotus eater 123.]]
:::I made the mistake of looking (but at least not commenting) at ANI per the notice below, and I had the misfortune of looking up higher on the page, where there is a now-closed thread about [[Trypophobia]]. And it contains a whiny comment about some talk page posts from several years ago: {{tq|However, some users, such as one editor called Tryptofish, took the time to mock the concept of the disorder, and tried to have the image enlarged.}} The ping didn't go through to me, so I only saw it today, after closure. Apparently, I'm an SPA who adopted a name similar to the page name so that I could make fun of it. (In fact, I responded to an RfC, and asked about the strength of sourcing for the page. Obviously, I needed to be canceled.) Thanks for letting me vent. Anyway, it seems that WP has long been a place for people who get offended by stuff that shouldn't have offended them so much. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:13, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
:::: {{u|Tryptofish}} - Tryp!!!! I am seeing a whole new side of you, now. You have been holding back on me. I was wondering where your name came from. Now we know the truth. [[Badfish|Bad fishy!!!]] {{emoji|1F60F}} --[[User:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b76e79">'''A'''</span><span style="color:#be4f60">'''Rose'''</span>]][[User talk:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b87333">'''Wolf'''</span>]] 21:26, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
:::::And here I thought that "Trypophobia" was fear of '''me'''! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:29, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
:::::: Meh, one person's fear is another person's mag[[Fishing net|net]] --[[User:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b76e79">'''A'''</span><span style="color:#be4f60">'''Rose'''</span>]][[User talk:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b87333">'''Wolf'''</span>]] 21:31, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
::::::: You [https://cdn.ecommercedns.uk/files/8/212198/9/5011989/image.jpg said it]. Fun for all the family! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:35, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
::Pilgrim, I mean EEng, I actually did comment there after all: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1042047860]. OK, pilgrim? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:33, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

=== Personal attacks go here ===

Your father engages in [[WP:SNEAKY|subtle vandalism]]. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]]) 14:18, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

:{{small|[[Monty Python and the Holy Grail|"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."]] etc. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:35, 1 September 2021 (UTC) }}
::{{small|1=Oh ya? Well you choose to spend your time [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Katyn_massacre&diff=1041802894&oldid=1041798529 responding to 2-year-old posts] by [[User_talk:Adûnâi#Indefinite_block|indeffed users]], while I'm snug on the couch with my cozy, pleasant-smelling parents! [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]]) 17:09, 1 September 2021 (UTC)}}
:::{{small|Well, they might still [[Appeal as from an abuse|appeal]]. But yes, it's much safer commenting and knowing one will get no reply. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 17:38, 1 September 2021 (UTC) }}
::::{{small|"Your [[Pilgrim Mother Campaign|mother]] was a [[Bartolo Longo|replica]] and your [[Pilgrim Fathers|father]] smelt of [[Mayflower|Crataegus monogyna."]] etc. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:29, 2 September 2021 (UTC)}}
:::::{{small|Solid. [[User:Firefangledfeathers|Firefangledfeathers]] ([[User talk:Firefangledfeathers|talk]]) 20:33, 2 September 2021 (UTC)}}
::::::{{small|[[Plymouth Rock|... rockin' it, dude]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:45, 2 September 2021 (UTC) }}

=== ANI discussion ===

[[File:Information icon4.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice--> [[User:NatGertler|Nat Gertler]] ([[User talk:NatGertler|talk]]) 18:35, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
:If you want my advice, you took a wrong turn at {{tq|1= [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1042000243 I can certainly see how some might not see that as offensive]}}. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:16, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

*Don't annoy me. I can easily ''withhold'' support of your quirky sense of humour, in the future. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 23:51, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
*:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QWL-FwX4t4#t=52sAC You talkin' to me?] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:16, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
**I like GoodDay, and I like EEng, and I also think there is something going on here that EEng would do well to learn from. I saw the exchange between the two of you at ANI. Basically, GoodDay said, in a supportive way, that worse things have been said about ''him'', and EEng replied that that's because he's a worse person. When I read it at the time, I found it funny, and understood it to be a joke. But it sounds like GoodDay took it seriously. And neither one of us (GoodDay and I) is right or wrong in how we interpreted it. That's the limitation of online humor, where affect is not apparent in text. And frankly, that's similar to what happened with Nat and "pilgrim". EEng thought it was no big deal, and Nat did not. So EEng, as much as I personally like your sense of humor, don't give up your day job. You aren't as clever as you think you are. It's not the other person's fault if they don't get your joke. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:09, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
*:I forgot to add: if you look [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:EEng&oldid=1042062074#Infobox_image_syntax here] (towards the end of the section), you will see EEng telling me that I'm better than a root canal. I took ''that'' as humorous, too, and that's the way that I took the comment to GoodDay. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:13, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

== "We can't just focus on Butt, you know." ==
[[:File:Coppertone.jpg]]
[[File:חתול זכר מסורס.jpg|thumb|upright=0.7|Too much focus on butt, and too much debate about cat-like creatures. (And this is a free image, so take ''that'', bot!) --Tryptocatfish<br><br>
That sure is one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nG13w3QsjQ mean eyed cat!] -- ME123<br><br>
Not to mention a [https://mashable.com/article/badass-cats-in-film-ranked-goose-captain-marvel badass]! --Tryptobass.<br><br>
[[Cat organ|Screeching cats]]? A least it's not old [[Pinchas Zukerman|pink ass]]? -- ME123<br><br>
[[Cat organ]]s? Too much focus on those! And don't [[Pinchas Zukerman|pinch]] it! --TF456<br><br>
Oi! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPicSRPwogI get back!] [[Erich Honecker's 1987 visit to West Germany|Honecker cat]]! -- ME123]]
*I feel there should be an essay in this, or maybe a Burma-shave -- {{U|Levivich}}? [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1047462278] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:14, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
*:{{burma-shave
|We must be neutral in ratio
|Avoid any locus non-apropos
|Forget not Millet's mixed love mileau
|We can't just focus on Butt, you know
}} [[User:Levivich|Levivich]] 04:05, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
*You're like a jukebox, thanks! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:59, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
**But, but, but.... --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:17, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
** Is [[Bottomry|nothing sacred]]? [[User:Martinevans123|Norman Buttkiss 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:51, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
** Wikipedian [[wikt:esotericism|esotericism]]<sup>[''Not to be confused with [[Western esotericism]] or [[The Esoterrorists]]'']</sup> is notorious [https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/techradarcom-10-of-wikipedias-wackiest-arguments-61296.html] [https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/wikipedia-edit-wars/] [https://www.theringer.com/2021/1/15/22232667/wikipedia-lamest-edit-wars] [https://www.cracked.com/article_25839_the-6-most-epically-pointless-arguments-wikipedia.html], and a debate about whether an article about the [[Butt–Millet Memorial Fountain]] focuses too much on Butt or too much on Millet is a pristine example. Another example: the ongoing debates at [[List of catgirls]] about whether Hermione Granger, who was [[Hermione Granger#Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets|once turned into a cat-like creature but only temporarily]], should be listed, which has now blossomed into [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#List of catgirls|an ANI thread]]. [[User:Levivich|Levivich]] 19:58, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
***Only on Wikipedia! Some people are pains in the butt, and others are insufferably catty. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:10, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
***Hey bitches. Time ya'll took a week off to [[Detox Icunt|Detox]]! Things can get a bit [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaCrQL_8eMY juicey], can't they. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:17, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

==October 2021==
I have asked you before to stop being aggressive yet you choose to continue being belligerent [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_F._Kennedy&diff=1048410536&oldid=1048407633 there] with disrespectful and unnecessary wording like "your own damn fault". I am asking you again to stop that and to be civil. --[[User:SergeWoodzing|SergeWoodzing]] ([[User talk:SergeWoodzing|talk]]) 15:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
:{{tpw}} I frequently check on the background behind these sorts of complaints, and far be it from me to object to requests for EEng to be nicer to people, but – good grief! This is over a fringey claim, where the talk page discussion has, by my count, six editors telling SW to back down, and zero agreeing with him. Looks to me like it's his own damn fault. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 17:56, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDqjRGqpIU "Yes, and some people claim that there's a woman to blame, But I know it's my own damn fault."] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:32, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
[[File:SWTPC Catalog 1969 Cover3.jpg|thumb|left|upright|Editor using an [[metal detector|iron-y detector]] --Tryptofish]]
:::I asked a question on an article talk page. Only this user addressed the matter with an abundance of personal scolding. That's what I wrote about here, not article content. On that page, I have already given up on the question I asked, yet the scolding only continues and worsens. If several of you wish to enable and support and reinforce that kind of behavior, that's your prerogative. --[[User:SergeWoodzing|SergeWoodzing]] ([[User talk:SergeWoodzing|talk]]) 13:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
::::I refuse to be an enabler. EEng should stop with the scolding. He sounds like [[Little Miss Can't Be Wrong|Miss Snodgrass]] (whoever that is). [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:43, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::Thank you. --[[User:SergeWoodzing|SergeWoodzing]] ([[User talk:SergeWoodzing|talk]]) 13:47, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::I think you need to take your irony detector in for recalibration. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:33, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::::Well, you know, there's irony and then there's [https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51O+eoN8nrL._SX338_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg scrap irony]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:38, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Goddam it, I was going to make a scrap-irony joke right after dinner and here you beat me to it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:41, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Hark! [[:File:His Master's Voice.jpg|The Master speaks]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:53, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
===ANI===
There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice--> [[User:SergeWoodzing|SergeWoodzing]] ([[User talk:SergeWoodzing|talk]]) 17:02, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
:And nobody's even posted the "take a number" image there yet? Slackers. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 02:34, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
::{{burma-shave|Without more sources | there's no way | Wikipedia can say | JFK |Was kinda gay | So  [[WP:drop the stick|drop the stick]] today}} [[User:Levivich|Levivich]] 17:25, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

== Circumstance ==

[https://www.offthemark.com/cartoon/careers-jobs/doctors/1994-01-18 Saw this] and thought of <s>you</s> the Museum. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 14:47, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
:Why exactly did you think of me in particular? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:53, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
::The answer is in your museum - think back to Dr Chrissy's passing. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 16:54, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
:::Hey Atsme, good to see you around again! As for the dirty underwear, I don't get the joke, either, so please do tell. Of course, EEng doubtless knows his way around the <s>dungeon</s> museum better than I do. But what I remember from Dr Chrissy's passing was that EEng commented that the impalement image Dr Chrissy had put on their page looked... ''something'', in the context of the note about his being deceased. Of course, if you're just telling EEng to change his underwear... --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:41, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
::::My apologies for the last response but we had a frightful storm yesterday evening which knocked out the power for nearly 6 hours. For easy reference, see EEng's [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:EEng#Underwear "Museum of I Shouldn't Laugh but I Did"]. It's self-explanatory. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 19:21, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::See, I got it (almost) right! (Frightful storm, eh? That's what happens when I smite someone!) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:44, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::Ah yes, Archangel Trypto. I see you more as [[That Mitchell and Webb Look|Angel Summoner]] to Atsme's [[BMX Bandits (film)|BMX bandit]] <small>(...soon to be replaced by "[[Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse|Gymkhana Girl]]")</small>: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weN71IO5EgM]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:58, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::I've been called arch from time to time (but no, my name is not Archie). But I can honestly say that no one (except, maybe, my mother) has ever called me an angel. I'm finally moving up in the world! {{smiley|20}} --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:08, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::::'''Did you know ...''' * that [[Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex|Prince Ginger]] and [[Meghan, Duchess of Sussex|Princess Rachel of Zane]] named their possible future [[Archie Mountbatten-Windsor|King sprog]] after [[Archie Bell (singer)|The Drells']] lead singer? True story. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqebwAWrqy4] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 22:21, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::I am rarely ever smitten by celebrity as it appears Harry & Meghan must be, and even less so [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyMbqu1lj84 smited], at least not in the way Tryp presented it (no offense intended to the god of thunder & lightening). My most recent smitings have been [https://www.smoothradio.com/features/the-story-of/unchained-melody-righteous-brothers-lyrics-meaning/ brought on] by this seemingly never ending move with all the accompanying memories. Oh, and the last link I included in my post will take you to an interesting bit of music history. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:08, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Ooh yes, thanks for that. I now feel strangely [[Unchained (film)|liberated]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:24, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

== Thank you ==

...for writing [[WP:Principle of some astonishment]]. I just stopped myself from writing "The House of Lords passed the [[Pains and Penalties Bill 1820]] in 1820." [[User:Sunrise|''<b style="color:#F60;font-family:Times New Roman">Sunrise</b>'']] <i style="font-size:11px">([[User talk:Sunrise|talk]])</i> 08:12, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
:I am but the humble initiator of that page; many hands helped. You may wish to peruse [[User:EEng#User_essays_worth_reading]] for further ways of wasting your afternoon. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:39, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

== Reverting the split on engineering glossary ==

I started a discussion on the talk page. You're welcome to join in if you are interested. [[Talk:Glossary_of_engineering:_A–L#Reverting_the_split]] [[User:Ergzay|Ergzay]] ([[User talk:Ergzay|talk]]) 03:24, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

== source ==

Hey, how did you get access to ''Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion''? It's from Yale University Press [[User:Theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] ([[User talk:Theleekycauldron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Theleekycauldron|contribs]]) ([[Singular they|they/them]]) 18:39, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
:<small>Yale, huh? Oh, I'm gonna be watching for the reply to this one! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:30, 19 October 2021 (UTC)</small>
::<small> [[Hallucinogenic fish|Trypy, my friend]],[[Psathyrella aquatica|was it everything you hoped for?]] --[[User:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b76e79">'''A'''</span><span style="color:#be4f60">'''Rose'''</span>]][[User talk:ARoseWolf|<span style="color:#b87333">'''Wolf'''</span>]] 17:37, 20 October 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::<small>Nope, our curator just ignored my dig at him. And this from someone who once went ballistic when I admitted that Yale has better architecture than Harvard does. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC) (Harvard, '78)</small>
:Not sure what you mean by "how did you [i.e. me, EEng] get access", because I don't recall ever having seen the title before. But if there's something you need from it I can get it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:51, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
::Ah, right, that's my mistake. I'm looking for anything about [[Cwmhiraeth]] that's in there, although I'm told it's not much. [[User:Theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] ([[User talk:Theleekycauldron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Theleekycauldron|contribs]]) ([[Singular they|they/them]]) 00:53, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
:::OK, just to be clear, you're looking for stuff about [[Cwmhiraeth]], not {{U|Cwmhiraeth}}, right? Because I don't think there will be much about the latter in there. It may be a week or more, but I'll take a look and see what's there. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
::::Cwmhiraeth the hamlet is just an innocuous little place that sprang up as part of the development of the woollen industry in Wales in the nineteenth century. I doubt you will find much about it online. My only association with the hamlet is that a relation used to live there and I liked the evocative name. [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 05:10, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::Ridicuous. Everyone know the Hamlet's in Denmark. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:42, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::<small>And here I thought that hamlet is what you put on a hamlet and cheeselet sandwich. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)</small>
:::::I am looking for stuff on [[Cwmhiraeth]], yeah. Although it would seem that [[Template:Did you know nominations/Cwmhiraeth|the jig is already up]]. I'm still open to any stuff if you've got it, though, thanks! [[User:Theleekycauldron|theleekycauldron]] ([[User talk:Theleekycauldron|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Theleekycauldron|contribs]]) ([[Singular they|they/them]]) 06:46, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::[[Apparently]], our [[Judi Dench|Dame Judi]] is related to Hamlet. Well, to his [[Tycho Brahe|personal astrologer]] anyway. Just sayin' [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 09:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::What in the world are you talking about? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:16, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::::If only I knew. You're the one who mentioned [[Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead|something rotten in the state of Denmark]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:20, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Martin's just giddy because Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion both have enough vowels in them to be pronounceable. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::Eeeewww no, Carmarthenshire has those nasty '''[[Bowellism|Saesneg vowels]]''' in, look you. You must mean Sir Gaerfyrddin! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:15, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::Bowellism and vowelism? Tripe! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:36, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

== "Vast and cavernous" ==

As someone who recently had a panic attack at level D of the [[Widener Library|Widener]] stacks, I was happy to discover that Wikipedia agrees on their cavernousness. [[User:JBchrch|<span style="color:#494e52">'''JBchrch'''</span>]] [[User_talk:JBchrch|<span style="color:#494e52">talk</span>]] 16:59, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
:Next time remember your compass, sandwich, and whistle. [https://books.google.com/books?id=hffLC9_WUCIC&pg=PA15] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)