User talk:Jimbo Wales

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GOCE Newsletter

GOCE July 2011 backlog elimination drive chart Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors Backlog Elimination Drive! We have now passed the halfway point, so here's an update. Progress Report - Progress toward the targets has been good. 751 articles out of the approximately 1,610 we would like to get completed by the end of the month were done by July 16, so we will be very close to meeting the target for volume. However, we would like to clear all of the 2008 articles from the backlog, and there are still 899 left to do. Please consider choosing one of these older articles when looking for something to copy edit. If we focus our firepower we can completely wipe out 2008 from the queue. Participation Report - 95 people signed up for the July drive. This is a great result compared to May, when we had 36. However, in May only one person that signed up didn't do any copy edits, and in July only 54 of the 91 have posted any copy edits on the big board. The task may seem insurmountable but please remember that if all 95 participants copy edit just one article a day from now until the end of the month, we will eliminate 1,323 more articles from the backlog. So please consider participating at whatever level you can! All contributions are appreciated. This newsletter was prepared for the GOCE by Diannaa (Talk), S Masters (talk), and The Raptor Lettuce talk.

(timestamp for auto-archiving) Fram (talk) 07:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Just curious

Dear Sir, I'm just curious as to whether you think it is alright for admins to call users "d*cks" (but with an i instead of a *)? EVula called me this repeatedly on Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents. I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong, but I didn't realize it was okay to be sweared at by administrators in the process. Just wondering whether this was the future of being part of the WP community? Thanks for your contributions towards society. Sincerely, Njsustain (talk) 18:26, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

See WP:DICK. It isn't good to call someone a dick, but it is even better not to be one.--Scott Mac 18:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing up the acceptable etiquette here on WP, sad as it apparently is. Njsustain (talk) 18:33, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Context: I said "I honestly think Njsustain is being a bit of a dick here." The fact that you're commenting about this all over the place after saying you were done with the content debate (where you were insulting another editor, for the record) just makes me feel pretty damn sure of my initial reaction. (yes, I just used profanity; oh well) EVula // talk // ☯ // 18:34, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

The fact that you keep trying to defend your actions just makes me feel pretty dams sure that your actions were indeed inappropriate. Oh well. Njsustain (talk) 18:39, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I think administrators should never call other users "dicks" under any circumstances whatsoever. It's not the worst thing in the world, of course, but neither does that make it ok.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:32, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

It may be a largely semantic debate, but (personally) I think there's a difference between saying "you're a dick" and "you're acting like a dick". The latter is the correct context for the statement (direct link to the thread can be found at WP:ANI#Disruption by User Njsustain). EVula // talk // ☯ // 20:48, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough, but notice the impact here. Instead of focusing on the content dispute, which is a perfectly legitimate one, the complainant has degenerated into anger over behavior. (Notice that in saying that the dispute is a legitimate one, I'm not taking sides on who is right in the dispute.) I still think it is best to avoid personal attacks and language which may tend to inflame a dispute rather than calming it. We all fail in this at times, of course, I'm not blaming you or attacking you for it. I'm just saying, it's best if we don't do that.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:01, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

That's a fair stance. I honestly didn't think it would incense the situation as much as it did, but then again, I've got a considerably thicker skin than some. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 21:11, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Jimbo, I'm wondering if the article in question meets WP:GNG and if it does I'm wondering if the policy needs to be fixed. There are millions of restaurants that have similar coverage in local media because they are popular and successful to some degree at PR. I wonder what benefit it is to have articles on them in an encyclopedia. We're not Zagat's, Citisearch or Yelp the last time I checked. I would propose that a majority of articles in Category:Restaurants in the United States by state should not exist here at Wikipedia but maybe my opinion is not shared by others. It strikes me that the type of coverage they get in local media, in the "lifestyle section" type areas of newspapers and magazines, is not a result of the type of notability we are concerned with here but instead local popularity and good PR. Shouldn't there be something other than this type of coverage necessary for a consumer based commercial establishment? I'm curious about your opinion on this.Griswaldo (talk) 13:45, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

WP:CORP applies to any business that has an article on Wikipedia. If they fail to meet the notability guidelines, they shouldn't have an article. ----moreno oso (talk) 13:52, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Does this one meet that policy? If it does, once again I pose the broader question, should it meet that policy? Are restaurant reviews and lifestyle articles about popular eateries the types of coverage we want to use to write encyclopedia articles with?Griswaldo (talk) 14:02, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Let me ask a more specific question. Are restaurant reviews considered news, and given the answer to that how should they be considered when we talk about things like "significant coverage" and notability criteria?Griswaldo (talk) 14:08, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

It's not up to me to decide policy at that level of scale, and so I offer only a general opinion. I think that having such articles is not within the scope of Wikipedia for a number of reasons, more or less along the lines that Griswaldo has outlined. It should be noted, since it accidentally and foolishly made headlines a few years ago, that I started the entry Mzoli's, but I did so on the premise that the restaurant is culturally interesting, as it has been popular with both whites and blacks in a South African township, and because of various complexities surrounding its impact on the community.

A quite nice local wine bar, unless it has some wider impact, isn't really the same thing.

There are a number of reasons we might not want such articles - the article we have now is a case in point - it reads like an advertisement for the restaurant, and having lots and lots of these would surely invite lots more local businesses to try to get an article in Wikipedia. This will lead to a lot of difficult maintenance issues, etc.

On the other hand, it can be argued, and surely will be argued, and there are valid points here, that as long as there is coverage in reliable sources, why not have it? If, as in this case, all the coverage is favorable, so that all one can really say about the restaurant is that it seems delightful, then so be it. (Note well: I don't think anyone is arguing that this is a restaurant like El Bulli which is famous for having a major impact on how people think about cuisine, etc.)

I think this is a discussion worth having.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:41, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Article is also in the queue to receive DYK hook, wiki front page publicity.Off2riorob (talk) 14:54, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I started a discussion here as well -Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(organizations_and_companies)#Restaurant_notability. The first response has been that the article fails WP:CORP because the coverage is all local and regional. The fact that it is in line for Did You Know seems highly suspect to me. The fact that any restaurant would be in line for DYK as a general item of interest, and not in relation to a significant news item, seem completely ridiculous. How is that not simply PR being done on our part? This is exactly the kind of thing that is troubling me.Griswaldo (talk) 15:06, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you completely. I just took a quick look to try to figure out where to object to it appearing in DYK until some issues are resolved, but I couldn't figure it out. (I've never had anything to do with the DYK process. Do you know where I should object?) My view is that this DYK listing should at a minimum be delayed by a couple of weeks - this isn't a "timely" issue and reflecting on it will be a good thing. I will ask Cirt on his talk page if he will support this delay.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:26, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Hooks been removed Off2riorob (talk) 15:32, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Original point

Jimbo, I have to say that I'm still a little bit concerned about the reception that Njsustain received when s/he tried to take on this matter originally. I know you are not the enforcer of behavioral rules around here but I wanted to make this comment out loud because the original discussion was about that reception. Njsustain has probably learned something about better ways to handle these types of issues but it is very disheartening to see several admins on AN/I overlook the very clear issues with the entry to the benefit of a fellow admin. Njsustain clearly had a very relevant gripe here, and it would be good to know that admins hanging around AN/I will evaluate these things a bit more thoroughly before jumping to their buddy's defense. I hope they are also learning from this incident as I'm sure Nj is. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 19:09, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem is, people have different thresholds for what constitutes civility. I have a box on my userpage telling people they are free to swear and curse as much as they desire, because I understand that people sometimes need to vent. I don't mind profanity at all, but there are those who do, and it's sometimes hard to tell who'll be offended by what. If someone told me that my work on an article was a "pile of goddamned shit", I wouldn't have any problem with it as long as they could point to a reson why. I may disagree, but at least I know where they're coming from. Others don't take to that so kindly, so it's a bit confusing. As to calling someone a dick, I suppose if you have someone who hasn't read WP:DICK that it could be seen as offensive, but as someone who's only been around for 5 months, I quickly picked up on the fact that saying someone is a dick on Wikipedia isn't the same as saying that in real life. But that's just my take. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 20:42, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm less concerned about the "dick" comment than the hostility minus any real attempt to look into the situation (the second part especially).Griswaldo (talk) 21:35, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

• - I have sent the article to AFD for discussion here. Off2riorob (talk) 21:00, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

@EVula, According to WP:DICK, "Telling someone "Don't be a dick" is usually a dick-move — especially if it's true. It upsets the other person and it reduces the chance that they'll listen to what you say." So it makes yourself a DICK if you have called Njsustain a dick, according to the essay that you have used to call him a dick!

@Jimbo: What kind of essays or policies are these things? Are we going to have also WP:ANUS, WP:PUSSY and WP:TIT in the near future?--Policy writer (talk) 02:05, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Read WP:BEANS- now that you've said that, someone will do it. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 02:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

And now you're a dick for remarking that I'm a dick for saying that Njsustain was acting like a dick. (and now I'm a dick yet again for remarking on this fact) This is a fun game to play. EVula // talk // ☯ // 00:16, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Internet used to be run by thick skinned elephants. Nowadays it's Eternal September: as more people come online , we have more PFY's throwing out much more profanity than they used to, and also much thinner skinned people coming online too. Ye Olde Elephants tend to flock to new innovations, and were the first to populate wikipedia, hence some of our older users and policies use more colorful language than the newer ones. --Kim Bruning (talk) 13:45, 27 July 2010 (UTC) goshdangit!

These sweeping generalizations are preposterous. I've been on the net since '86. Just because I don't use middle school locker room language and expect others not do so either in polite conversation, doesn't mean I am thin skinner nor a "PFY" just a gentleman (or if were applicable, a lady). Being around WP or the net a while doesn't mean it becomes okay to use impolite language. It's still rude, whether you are used to it or not.Njsustain (talk) 20:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

But that's the point; just because it's rude to you doesn't make it rude to everyone else. I don't consider profanity an issue, and use it quite freely at times; all it means is that you and I think differently. The problem with civility is that it's such a subjective term, and it's not possible to discuss certain things/behaviors without offending people. I do tone my language down around users I don't know; however, I wouldn't think twice about saying someone was acting like a dick if I thought so, because I can't imagine that it offends too many people (obviously it offends you, I just wouldn't have assumed that). Besides, WP:DICK is somewhat humorous (at least in my view), so I'd actually consider it a softer way of pointing it out to someone. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 23:12, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

See my comment above; I consider there to be a big difference between saying you are a dick and saying that you're acting like a dick (specifically, the former is a direct insult, while the latter is merely a personal opinion). Sorry if you're offended by the wording of my remark, but I stand by my assessment of your behavior; I'll see your WP:DICK (er, wait, what?) and counter with WP:SPADE. I could have had a bit more tact in what I said, but I didn't, and there's not a damn thing I can do about it now.
I also don't consider what I said to be particularly profane, though as it's been pointed out, profanity is sometimes in the ear of the beholder... er, behearer? Eh, whatever, you get the point. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 00:16, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Mimi Macpherson

Hi Jimbo. I just wanted to follow up on our discussion about Mimi Macpherson from a little while back, and ascertain the status of your communications with her. Thanks, NW (Talk) 14:47, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm off to bed now, but I'll check on this tomorrow if I can. I'll be sending her an email, and since she's in Australia, it will probably be a couple of days for the cycle to complete.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 02:50, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Death anomalies

Hi Jimbo, further to our chat at Talk:Friedrich von Bömches, I was wondering if you would like to make a comment in this proposed signpost article? ϢereSpielChequers 16:53, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Sure, how about something like this: "I'm excited to see this kind of machine-assisted editing. In the foreseeable future, it will not be possible for machines to actually make judgment calls about editorial matters, but it is entirely possible for this type of work, as well as more advanced semantic analysis, to provide useful assistance to human editors, particularly in finding contradictions and anomalies. Merlissimo is a rock star!"--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:58, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow! That's even more commas in one sentence that I usually manage! ;) --Tango (talk) 17:14, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, don't know if it will make today's signpost, but its submitted. Any suggestions as to how else I could promote this to other wikis - I'm afraid it all started just too late to Gdansk. ϢereSpielChequers 17:24, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Jimbo :D. Merlissimo 13:13, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Christopher Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley

Jimbo, following the comments from you and others on the BLP noticeboard about the coverage of Lord Monckton's relationship with the House of Lords, I've posted a proposed revised text at Talk:Christopher Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley‎#Monckton and Parliament. Any views you might have would be appreciated. -- ChrisO (talk) 20:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Climategate name change debate

Jimbo, there is another debate on the proper name for the Climatic Research Unit email controversy, proposing that it be renamed to Climategate per Wikipedia:Article titles#Neutrality and article titles which states in part: True neutrality means we do not impose our opinions over that of the sources, even when our opinion is that the name used by the sources is judgmental.

Your prior comments on the issued are being argued by both sides to infer your support of their position, and I thought it might be easier just to ask you to comment on it, so there is no question. Thanks, GregJackP Boomer! 22:33, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, GregJackP Boomer! 23:18, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

In keeping with my comment in that discussion, I would request that, rather than clarifying his past statements, Jimbo weigh-in on whether this is an issue worthy of ArbCom or not. I would even go so far as to ask that he refer the matter there himself, removing further delay in having to apply to hear the matter (however, if he feels arbitration would be warranted but does not wish to wield that sort of influence on the proceedings, I would be willing to put a few days into a proper application).

The amount of time being expended in further debating the matter passed into a state of unconstructive long ago and even if there existed some middle ground on which mediation could find purchase, I cannot fathom the results would be accepted by current (or future) parties for very long. Additionally, a final decision through arbitration would set important precedent in the project's convention for article titles.
--K10wnsta (talk) 08:55, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Other than some general carping on all sides, there does not appear to me to be a breakdown of constructive dialog on this particular topic. Yes, there are predictable partisans (on both sides) who are unfairly trying to paint others. Yes, there is a small amount of heat. But mostly this is a civilized attempt to find consensus. The previous compromise, which I still weakly support even though I think from a content perspective it is not the optimal solution yet, is being questioned: there is no harm in that.

The issue I see here is that all sides appear to accept Wikipedia's general conventions for article titles, but no one has yet hit upon the right answer.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:50, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Existence of God.

Wikipedia appears to me like a movement of giving/spreading knowledge to everyone without any anticipation. A great (though not a perfect word) idea and action, I have ever seen.

My topic/questions is.. What do you say about the existence of God ?

Suresh, Hyderabad, India 210.210.13.126 (talk) 09:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Have you read Existence of God? - WAS 4.250 (talk) 19:57, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Afghan War Diary links

There is a current thread at Talk:The_War_Logs#Remove_easy_access_to_the_papers_from_wikipedia regarding linking to wikileaks. User:Bdell555 is stating that we cannot link to wikileaks because he the material may have been illegally obtained. Is a direct link to wikileaks allowed?Smallman12q (talk) 17:17, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

The only thing I really have to say about it is that I wish people would stop citing WP:NOTCENSOR all the time. It almost never answers anyone's actual objections, and it may seriously mislead people who hear it for the first time. It sounds like an "in your face" kind of "we don't care about what happens" when in fact, we in general can, should, and do follow thoughtful, careful, respectful, serious linking policies that do involve - at times - declining to link to material that is in some way illegal or harmful.

That doesn't answer the question of whether we should link in this particular case - I think we should - but it does say that those arguing for linking can't simply say WP:NOTCENSOR and expect that to carry the day.

There are various factors that we should weigh thoughtfully, and one of them is the potential for a link to these documents to cause harm. That's actually a completely valid question that deserves an answer. And I think it can be answered quite well with two points: first, the documents are already all over the Internet and in global news headlines - anyone who wants to look at them can, no problem, and Wikipedia won't make a bit of difference in that regard. Second, President Obama himself said ""While I'm concerned about the disclosure of sensitive information from the battlefield, that could potentially jeopardise individuals or operations, the fact is these documents don't reveal any issues that haven't already informed our public debate on Afghanistan." [1]--Jimbo Wales (talk) 03:45, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Distortions and bias in scientific coverage

Everytime I come across articles on controversial science subjects I am astounded to see how distorted and disparaging Wikipedia's coverage is about minority viewpoints and the people who espouse them. One example is user:keepcalmandcarryon's ongoing campaign to disparage biographical subjects like Philip E. Johnson, who questioned the HIV-AIDS connection. He misrepresents sources, for example this 1995 letter shows that the subject signed onto the opinion that [2] "Other independent researchers should examine the validity of the so-called "AIDS tests," especially when these tests are used in Africa and Southern Asia, to see if they reliably record the presence of antibodies, let alone live and replicating virus." But it's being used to state that "HIV tests do not detect HIV". Where does it say that? Is questioning a connection the same as saying it does not exist? And why is the present tense being used for an opinion stated in the mid-90s? Here is the article before his disortions were added which I think is quite clear [3].

Of course anyone seeking to correct the subtle distortion and disparagement used to advance favored POVs is labeled as a fringe nutjob and attacked. Frankly, if Wikipedia can't do a better job of abiding by its own BLP policies I wonder if it should be shut down.

The problem of the William Connolleys and the Mastcells who use the encyclopedia to advance their personal beliefs and abuse their roles as admins and editors is widespread. Even dispute tags and citation needed tags from controversial content are removed, and the noticeboards are abused to go after those making an effort to make the accounts accurate.

In the Peter Duesberg article they've gone as far as reordering the chronology of his career so the article focuses almost exclusively on his controversial views on AIDS. I have no objection to being clear and straightforward about controversies and criticisms, they are certainly missing from much of our political coverage, but outright lying and distortions of this sort, misrepresentations of what is in sources, and maligning of unpopular subjects is beyond the pale. There should be zero tolerance for editors and especially admins who engage in these pursuits or aid them in any way. I have never had cause to doubt the HIV-AIDS connection and it certainly represents what I consider a fringe viewpoint, now more than ever, but we shouldn't lie about what kind of opinions those questioning consensus views held or seek to disparage and misrespresent the facts about their careers. I would appreciate your suggestions on how to address this serious problem on Wikipedia. The denialist article was a good example of how terms are being defined in a selective way and then used in other articles to disparage subjects, although I see now it has been improved a bit. Freakshownerd (talk) 21:03, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm happy to report that after the posting of this comment Mastcell has made some needed improvements to Duesberg's article. But the difficulty of a good faith editor trying to get these widespread problems addressed remains, and the tacticcs of obstruction and collusion need to be exposed to the light of day. Freakshownerd (talk) 21:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I made those changes before you posted here, as the timestamps indicate. You've already opened two threads on WP:BLP/N (here and here), edit-warred aggressively and without justifciation on multiple articles, thrown around an increasingly aggressive series of attacks on everyone who disagrees with you (which, at present, is basically everyone you're interacting with), filled article talk pages with attacks on other editors in lieu of content discussion (here, here), berated me for a "BLP violation" on an article I don't think I've ever even edited ([4]), charged your fellow editors with "despicable lies and distortions", and now ended up here at the forum-shopper's final stop. And that's only in the past 6 hours or so. Please, for everyone's sake, chill out a little. MastCell ^Talk 21:28, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I am raising these issues because they are widespread. You helped fix one small part of them finally, but continue to obstruct other improvements even in instances where you acknowledge the distortions taking place. That's not acceptable. Why is a view someone held in the 1990s being presented in the present tense? Why was a disputed tag removed despite an active debate on the accuracy of the article contents? Why are you standing by and questioning me for pointing out obvious mispresentations of what's in the sources? You're clearly part of the problem, and while I did indeed err in my statement about when your improvement came, I stand by my statement that you are one of the editors (and admins) actively obstructing NPOV coverage of controversial science subjects. Freakshownerd (talk) 21:50, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Earlier today, at MastCell's suggestion, I added a sentence stating that Phillip Johnson's present position on HIV/AIDS is unknown. Honestly, I consider this just a tad lawyerly (and also unsourced). It's like writing that Barack Obama supported health care reform, but we don't know his current position since he hasn't made a statement on it since Sunday. In fact, a 2009 news source cited in the article attributes the denialist position to Johnson. But I was willing to do it in an attempt to calm the situation at the article. It obviously didn't work. In any case, it seems to be a rather minor issue, and one that's been resolved to Freakshownerd's satisfaction. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 22:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Here's an example of damaging slander just added by Keepcalmandcarryoh: (Johnson) "has also lamented the presence of Muslims on US university campuses, ascribing to Muslims a chilling effect on free speech."

The actual statement from the source [5] (in response to a question about 9/11) is: "Now we're seeing how the country is almost cringing in fear of these Muslim terrorists from the Middle East. I see professors afraid to discuss the subject because they're afraid of what the Muslim students will do. They're afraid it won't keep the peace on campus. I never thought our country would descend to this level."

It's a clear and intentional distortion and misrespresentation that is absolutely slanderous. And if Keepcalmandcarryon isn't blocked for the pattern of the malicious misrespresentations he's adding to these article subjects, then my point is really made for me, is it not? And please don't accuse me of making legal threats. If he is allowed to distort article content then I hope someone does sue to shut down the propogation of these disgusting lies, but it won't be me files the claim, I can't be bothered. I'm just pointing out the problem in clear and accurate language. Wikipedia is being used to viciously disparage and attack subjects that aren't popular with a group of powerful admins and editors, and nothing is being done to stop them. Freakshownerd (talk) 22:15, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Notice that I included the entire quote in the citation precisely so Freakshownerd and other editors could confirm it. Johnson states that Muslim terrorists attacked the US and that free speech is chilled on campus because Muslim students are present and professors are afraid of them. Elsewhere in the interview, Johnson states that the US is in the described state of affairs because of the notion that different religions should be given different respect when, in his words, Christianity is the true religion. How is anything I've written a distortion of Johnson's views? Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 22:25, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

One thing that the editors of articles about religious or idealogical ideas, theories, or beliefs need to remember is that to help the article be more NPOV, the article first needs to describe, without taking a side, how the person, group, or idea views itself. Then, a "criticism" or "controversy" section can be included, but should not be any longer in length than the description section. Cla68 (talk) 22:30, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a big fan of that approach, because it creates a he-said, she-said structure. I think it's always preferable to integrate reliable sources into a flowing, coherent narrative as opposed to presenting a sympathetic view first followed by a "criticism" section. Certainly, as a reader, I find that approach much more useful. WP:STRUCTURE and Wikipedia:Avoid thread mode are relevant - while the latter is an essay, I think its (facetious) example is on point. MastCell ^Talk 22:37, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Arbitrator Election

Just curious, how do arbitrators get elected/selected? AirplanePro^Radio_Checklist 01:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

WP:ACE. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 01:43, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

"I would personally like to medicate this idiot with a very large right fist..."

Perhaps you have an opinion to offer in this AN/I discussion involving the activities of an admin, WP:NPA, and civility in general? Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 13:05, 28 July 2010 (UTC)