Talk:Religion in Japan

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Statistics

Would be nice if the article would have a clear table with the percentages of how many people adhere to what religion, properly sourced of course. Currently, there is no way to find out quickly and simply how many people actually identify as Shinto or Buddhist from the article. --Viciouspiggy (talk) 22:10, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Your wish has been fulfilled. Can we now delete this? --Vsop.de (talk) 14:31, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Undue weight to Islam

I noticed that the description about Islam is too long compared to other religions. As Islam has a main article Islam in Japan, the desctiption here should be a summary of the article. From the NPOV point of view, It should be reduced to less than main religions or preferably 100 words.

Word counts of each religin are:

• Shinto 437
• Buddism 578
• New religions 240
• Minorities
  • Christianity 292
  • Islam 843
  • Baha'i Faith 17
  • Judaism 24
  • Ryukyuan 15
  • Sikhism 23

―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 06:51, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks for your reminds, I've shortened the Islam section. This section has done by a blocked user in December 2008, who is a biased Muslim named LOTRrules. I appreciate your works in Wikipedia. Angelo De La Paz (talk) 16:10, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

conclusion

as we have said japan has a lot of religions --63.225.208.113 (talk) 22:45, 23 March 2010 (UTC)Alyssa

Conflicting statistics

Can anyone clear the issue of non-religious affiliation up for me? The newest statistics by Gallup in 2005 place 87% of the population as Buddhists or Shintoists, 6% are Christan, and .02% are Islamic- yet the article constantly says that 80-90% of the population has no religious affiliation. This is greatly confusing for me because Japan was a extremely religious place from what i saw of it. There where shrines and to a lesser extent Churches everywhere, and in their media it is extremely common for the characters to show affiliation with some sort of religion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.114.227 (talk) 15:16, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

According to the Christianity in Japan article, there are:

• Roman Catholics and Protestants both give the figure 509,000 (Protestants says 509,668: This is might be an account of people who profess Christianity?)
• 218,091 Jehovah's Witnesses
• 30,000 Eastern Orthodox

So, with the maximum given numbers (no count of minor denominations is given), the total number comes to 1,266,759 or 0.9%

The "non-religious" thing doesn't sound right at all; that might be a reference to non-organised worship. Otherwise, such statistic material, especially in regards to decentralised religions, are not very credible. Its hard enough for a local, centralised government to get a semi-accurate census.--IronMaidenRocks (talk) 04:49, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

You've hit on the real problem with any such article: there is no real definition of what "religious" is taken to mean. By the often suspicious levels of "irreligion" found in a lot of these articles, it would seem to mean some type of regular attendance/worship is required for someone to be counted as of a particular faith. Of course, many atheists seem to count any and all "irreligious" or "non-believing" folk as fellow-travelers of theirs, which is generally not the case at all. But, hey, we live in such a self-important age, what speaks to that better than a belief in nothing greater than ourselves?--172.129.14.93 (talk) 07:30, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Undue weight to Christianity

"In the year 1542, the first Europeans from Portugal landed on Kyushu in Western Japan. The two historically most important things they imported to Japan were gunpowder and Christianity, in the form of Roman Catholicism. A few Christian customs, including the wearing of white dresses at weddings and the celebration of Valentine's Day and Christmas, have become popular among the non-Christian population." I think it could just be cut down to this, no need to explain the history here. That's what the main article is for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.193.253 (talk) 03:37, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

         Baha'i 11 words

         Christianity 223 words

         Islam 40 words

         Judaism 21 words

         Ryukyuan Shinto 29 words

         The portion that I deleted was mostly historical events which did not need to be in the description of the religion. That kind of material can be accessed via the main article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.193.253 (talk) 03:57, 9 December 2010 (UTC) 

I don't see a need to remove fine and relevant information so that the section is more balanced with others. Ajraddatz (Talk) 04:19, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Why is the evil doing of Christianity concealed?

To destroy the Shinto shrine and the temple of the Buddhism, the priest instigated the Japanese. Christianity is described like people of the tragedy(LOL) 60.40.10.32 (talk) 15:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

The non-clarity of the input from the above commenter is, to me, indicative of the quality of the too-often typical student within the USA's incredibly expensive educational systems designed and intended to mainly indoctrinate the spawn of the USA's citizen-sheep. Just the mere opinion of the Mighty Obbop who departed that dreadful USA's so-called K-12 educational system convinced it is a wealth source for educational bureaucrats and a propaganda dispensing system for the USA elite-class, corporate USA, etc. and via an awesome use of brainwashing coerce and force the masses of commoners to pay and pay dearly for the systems used to indoctrinate those citizen-sheep. Obbop (talk) 22:26, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I think you departed the USA's K-12 educational system too soon, frankly.--172.129.14.93 (talk) 07:10, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

The original IP was posting from Japan, accusations that his poor English are a result of the US educational system are simply a misplaced political comment. Dougweller (talk) 08:12, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Name of White Snake Religion

In Nagasaki, a temple called "Miyo-Ken" is a holy temple where the white snake is worshiped. I was wondering what religion this falls under (if any)? This would surely provide a wonderful addition to this article. Reference: http://books.google.com/books?id=SY6DUnOOZSAC&pg=PA270&dq=nagasaki+serpent&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uTzeUOq0Fon30gGg6oCoAw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=nagasaki%20serpent&f=false ; I have also seen this character being referred to as "Hakuja no Myojin" and may be related to the Legend of the White Snake from the Song Dynasty? Twillisjr (talk) 01:45, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

A "Myojin" is a form of address for a highly revered "Kami" in Shinto, and was subsequently adopted in the pantheon of Shinto Kami corresponding to Buddhas, etc., in syncretic Buddhism.--Ubikwit ^連絡 _{見学/迷惑} 11:16, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

"55% do not believe in Buddha"

"And according to Demerath (2001:138), 65% do not believe in God, and 55% do not believe in Buddha."

I checked the source, and while the original wording is maintained, I have no idea what it could mean to "believe in Buddha". The Buddha was an historical figure. Does it mean, 55% do not believe that the Buddha existed as an historical figure? Or that 55% do not revere the Buddha as a God? Being an adherent of Buddhism does not entail the worship of Buddha (in fact, it should not). At best, this line is misguided, at worst it is incoherent and propagates a common misunderstanding in the West as to the (non-) divinity of the Buddha. If a clarification cannot be identified in the source cited, I propose we cut the line altogether. --Dgparks (talk) 05:59, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

“65% do not believe in God” and “less than 15% of Japanese believe in God”

Shouldn't this be “a god”? If not, it should be specified which god is meant. Ehamberg (talk) 04:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Typically, if the word is capitalized and not preceded by a specifier or article, it refers to the God of the three Abrahamic religions, variously transcribed as God, Allah, Yahweh, etc. Dgparks (talk) 14:34, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Social Construction of the category religion

There is a lot of scholarship discussing the social construction of religion (宗教) as a category in Japan. I think a Japanese scholar Isomae Jun'ichi did it first, but there is also more recently a book in English. See review link below. So I think that at least a bit about this issue should stay on the page. http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=38984

So I undid the edit that removed a paragraph about the social contraction from the page. I actually think maybe it should be expanded.

Best, Hosogami (talk) 13:30, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

The h-net book review should be added to the article as a reference. Binksternet (talk) 13:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Including the note about the social construction of religion seems unnecessary and to unfairly promote a specific marginal academic position. Josephson and Isomae, along with Timothy Fitzgerald and other postmodern theorists, argue that the concept of religion did not exist in Japan prior to contact with the West but crucially their work does not represent any broad consensus on the subject. Countervailing views can be found easily, for example, from well known researchers of Japanese religion such as Ian Reader, Michael Pye, Hans Kramer and a whole host of Japanese academics, many of whom focus on the terms used to describe Buddhism when it was being introduced from China/Korea. I can provide citations to illustrate this but I think it doesn't really deserve mentioning in an encyclopedia article since it is a pretty obscure academic debate. Some relevant citations: http://www.jstor.org/stable/41959187, http://muse.jhu.edu/article/539113/pdf, http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/discussionpapers/Reader2.htmlCKava (talk) 06:45, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Specious claims in charts about Christianity and Islam, and WP:OR problem with Islam section

First, though I don't have the source names at hand, it is fairly well accepted that less than 1% of the population of Japan is Christian.

Second, the claims for Islam are not only even more overblown than those for Christianity, relatively speaking, but they are contradicted by the one source for the topic that can be considered reliable.

Although an accurate number of Muslims in Japan is not available, Muslims from Asian nations such as Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh make up most of the foreign Muslims, numbering between 70,000 and 100,000. The estimated number of Japanese Muslims ranges from thousands to tens of thousands. The Japan Muslim Association estimates from registrations that there are somewhere between 7,000 and 10,000. Of the Japanese Muslims, the biggest group consists of women who converted when they married Pakistanis and Bangladeshis who came to Japan in the 1980s to work.[1]

Considering that "foreign Muslims" are not Japanese, they--like other non-Japanese--do not count as being part of the Japanese population, and should be described as such. Accordingly, the numbers on the chart are false, as there is not a statistically significant (i.e., notable) number of Japanese Muslims. And here is a 2008 source by SakuraiMuslims in Contemporary Japan, preview from longer paper in Asia Policy 5, Islam in Japan: A Cause for Concern?

I've noticed other exaggerated language being used to describe the presence of religions in Japan that are likewise of questionable notability, and the article should be edited to reflect the actual situation more accurately.
And there is certainly no justification for having a photo of a mosque on this article, as per the above. It is a promotional placement, and I'll note that there are no photos of Chrsitian churches, nor do I believe that there should be on this page. Each of those religions does have its own article, and it seems that the photos would be more appropriate there.--Ubikwit ^連絡 _{見学/迷惑} 15:55, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Criticizing quotes

I have started this talk because I also think all the quotes in the "Comments on religious belief/non-belief by notable figures" section is simply to much. Its basically a section that deals with quotes that criticise religion in and article about religion. Its looks like a sneaky way around WP:CSECTION (an easy about the problem). We dont quote religions POV's extensively... thus all looks unbalanced towards religion as a problem. Would be best to move the majority of the section to a new article Irreligion in Japan (now a redirect here) an leave a small neutral intro here to the main article. All the info is interesting, but a bit much for this article as a whole. We recently did this for Irreligion in Canada and most liked the idea. [User:Moxy|Moxy]] (talk) 19:14, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

That misses the point that "irreligion" itself is not quite applicable to Japan, because of the syncretic nature of religion, whereas there is more of a reaction in monotheistic countries against being subjected to monotheistic dogma. The Japanese have generally had more flexibility, with a plethora of different sects and categories of belief system in both Buddhism and Shinto religion.

Most of the comments in that section are not about being "irreligious" per say, but expressing an opinion on religion that is compatible with one form or another of the multiplicity of Japanese belief systems. For example, "Shin'ichi Hisamatsu, philosopher and scholar who rejected theism, claimed that God or Buddha, as objective beings, are mere illusions" can be seen as a statement reflecting a school of though within Buddhism.--Ubikwit ^連絡 _{見学/迷惑} 19:24, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

I'd need to look at this more, but on first impression it seems that Japan is a unique case. And isn't it actually in line with CSECTION: "Other than for articles about particular worldviews, philosophies or religious topics etc. where different considerations apply (see below), best practice is to incorporate positive and negative material into the same section." and "or topics about a particular point of view – such as philosophies (Idealism, Naturalism, Existentialism), political outlooks (Capitalism, Marxism), or religion (Islam, Christianity, Atheism) – it will usually be appropriate to have a "Criticism" section or "Criticism of ..." subarticle. Integrating criticism into the main article can cause confusion because readers may misconstrue the critical material as representative of the philosophy's outlook, the political stance, or the religion's tenets." So a separate section is appropriate. Dougweller (talk) 21:00, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps I should be more clear ..the article is about religion...not the lack of religion. Thus the section seems out of place. There should be a different article for all the non-religious talk. The -- Moxy (talk) 23:21, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

You are arguing that comments about religion should be removed? Seriously, other articles about religion in various countries discuss irreligion, but the actual section in question has quotes about religion, so they are clearly relevant. We don't need a pov fork. And a statement about atheism by a 4 time Prime Minister is clearly relevant to any discussion of religion in Japan. If you went to an academic conference on religion in Japan would you really think that the povs expressed in that section wouldn't be expressed at the conference? Dougweller (talk) 13:13, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

We will have to disagree here in this case. Irreligion POV is just one of many - there is no other POV being pushed here. No religious POV on the positives. As of now its filled with negative quotes with no balance for other POV's. one POV vs the facts of the article looks odd. -- Moxy (talk) 20:11, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Removal of info on State Shinto

[[ping|Shii}} Please explain what you mean by "factual corrections", as all I see is that you deleted important informtion. See Helen Hardacre's book on the subject, for example.--Ubikwit ^連絡 _{見学/迷惑} 19:47, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Your ping didn't work... anyway see the State Shinto article for more info. Shii (tock) 22:02, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Non Folk Shinto Atheists/Plain Atheism in Japan/Non-Magical Thinkers

Not all Atheists pray for their ancestors. Plain atheists do respect, but not pray via magical thinking. Some Japanese are plain atheists. Some plain[non Shinto] atheists may attend a ceremony or a festival because of respect, not because they are "Shinto atheists". Plain atheists belong to a different notion. Many times in Japan we are forced not in a direct manner to respect other religions. We are a modern nation and many Japanese people follow the scientific method in their lives. To respect the "plain atheists" in Japan is a fundamental right in a civilised country. By respecting "plain atheism" and the scientific reasoning-method there is no danger or disrespect against Shinto religion. Most "Plain atheists" do not accept the term "a-theist" because it means non deist, therefore has a negative meaning. Explicit atheists use the therm "non-magical thinkers", that phrase has also a negative meaning, but by supporting rationalism, and not via the denial of deities. It is also called "negative meaning in a positive manner" because it supports atheistic reasoning, and it is not [that phrase] based against something that others believe [for magical thinking is a rational analysis]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.84.219.128 (talk) 01:19, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Year in article

The following section comes from the Christianity paragraph: " Portuguese traders were already active in Kagoshima since 1943,[53] welcomed by local daimyo because they imported gunpowder. Anijirō, a Japanese convert, helped the Jesuits understanding Japanese culture and translating the first Japanese catechism.[54]

These missionaries were successful in converting large numbers of people in Kyushu, including paesants, former Buddhist monks, and members of the warrior class.[55] In 1559, a mission to the capital, Kyoto, was started.[56] By the following year there were already nine churches, and the Christian community grew steadily in the 1560s"

So should the 1943 be changed to 1493? - Bramvr (talk) 09:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

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Request change, source 1 census is listed as being in 2006, but there is reason to believe it is in 2000

I do not speak Japanese, so forgive me if I am wrong, but I noticed that the pie chart's date seems to be wrong. I journied over to the source, because I wanted to see it for myself for a paper I'm working on, and I noticed that there is a contradiction. The top of the census says: "2000年," and at the very bottom of the page, however, it says "Added... 2006." I could be mistaken, but to the best I could tell, the census is from 2000, but the person added the information was uploaded to the source by a third party in the year of 2006. Forgive me if I am wrong.

MrRichBOB (talk) 05:08, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Problem with the kami

The kami are not the one centralized god-creator of the Universe, neither their personhood is as partonizing as for example the Abrahamic god.
(personhood is important to mention here, because personhood is about the definition of the person; not personality which focuses mainly on the particularities of the individual - we should study deeple the "personhood of kami" or the "degree of personhood" but degree of personhood is a different subject) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:410C:8900:D48A:A93:3E21:696F (talk) 22:53, 14 March 2019 (UTC) Thus many Japanese who are irreligious don't have enough motivation to be declared antispiritualists.
We have to mention that.
Some (but not all) Japanese are conceited. They focus on the blurriness of some Shinto texts, on the fact that kami is not the one universal creator, and on the fact that kami aren't as partonizing as the Islamic, Christian or other gods.
This isn't a metalogically deep reason to avoid strong atheism if your reasoning leads you there.
The Japanese don't show proper respect to pure nothingness and stict antimathematicality/antispirituality.
Not all Japanese have a single opinion. Few are true atheists.
As a society they don't show respect towards pure nothingness and pure atheism.
That's a problem of their own.
They should stop blaming the non patronizing weakness and non universal centrality of the kami.
Respecting something doesn't mean you have to agree.
They (as a society) don't show respect towards pure nothingness and pure atheism.
Not all Japanese are male, old or artists. Many different characters exist.
We shouldn't blame individuals, instead the Japanese society.

don't delete that; it's a subtle social problem (it will be solved, because new immigrants aren't inhabited in conduct and speak out their minds) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:410C:8900:D48A:A93:3E21:696F (talk) 22:51, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Japanese Buddhism

I would like to eventually explain Pure land Buddhism is different from JodoShu(Pure land Buddhism is called Jodo-Kyo here in Japan),When I find an English source.(I know an American Buddhist who believes pure land Buddhism,who's texts are not availableHard to find unlike common Buddhism text in Japan)Give me some time until I find them.Paperworkorange (talk) 15:48, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Inconsistent Figures

The figures showing the breakdown of religious practice in Japan flatly contradict each other. The NHK data seems to be at odds with the other sources stated at the top. If it's an outlier it should but be placed so prominently or, if not, they're should at least be an mention of the divergence of the graphs in their captions. 24.185.137.174 (talk) 00:01, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

It depends on what the original NHK source says. The CIA factbook source which is unknown allowed people to identify more than one religion (which goes with Japanese society allowing the possibility of following both Shinto and Buddhist practices). The NHK source is in Japanese so I can't read it but does not seem to allow overlap (or else the person creating the pie chart chose data to fit a pre-conceived notion that a person could only be one religion at a given time). Given the overlap existing, the pie chart should go even though on the whole I prefer to avoid the CIA Factbook data because it does not list its sources. Erp (talk) 16:06, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Data outdated

The data for the percentages of adherents of different faiths is outdated Stormplatter (talk) 05:45, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Ucsp about beliefs in japan.

Beliefs in Japan 175.176.77.169 (talk) 07:34, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Percentage in Japanese religion Pie chart

Hello, can you please fix the pie chart of the percentage of shinto its percentage is more higher than 3%. Can you help fix it to its proper percentage please ok. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.150.13.206 (talk) 01:53, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Inaccurate Graphic

The pie chart at the start of the article seems wildly inaccurate - it shows the percentage of people practising Shinto as 3%..? ElleBlair (talk) 21:28, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps this is 3% membership in Shinto organizations.JimRenge (talk) 21:51, 1 August 2023 (UTC)