Talk:Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed

Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2021

The entire page is full with negativity and it does not mention his achievements at all. Its pure propaganda. I would like to gain access to point out his achievements 3MohammedYasir12 (talk) 23:37, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DanCherek (talk) 00:42, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2021 (2)

This entire page is fake and is spreading propaganda.The amount of inreliable sources is disgusting. I would like to gain access to clean up all your mess. 3MohammedYasir12 (talk) 23:42, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

This is not an edit request. Please read instructions for making an edit request. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:57, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Footnote to infobox

Since his presidential term expired on 8th February 2021, the federal state Presidents of Puntland and Jubaland and the Council of Presidential Candidates no longer recognise Mohamed as the President of Somalia, but he refuses to leave office, despite public protests in Mogadishu during which peaceful protesters have been shot and killed by government forces and opposition leaders claim they have been targetted in assassination attempts.

I added the above footnote to the infobox and would like to open a discussion about it here so that a consensus can be reached on it's accuracy and that it is a true and unbiased reflection of valid media reports, as it has already been reverted a couple of times by a new User: CrazyMoMoCheese without discussion or edit summary. Amirah talk 17:48, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

References

Intro paragraph

He served a term as the 9th President of Somalia from 16 February 2017 to 8 February 2021. Since his presidential term expired on 8th February 2021, the federal state Presidents of Puntland and Jubaland and the Council of Presidential Candidates no longer recognise Mohamed as the President of Somalia, but he refuses to leave office, despite public protests in Mogadishu during which peaceful protesters have been shot and killed by government forces and opposition leaders claim they have been targetted in assassination attempts.

I made some recent changes to the intro paragraph and would like to open a discussion about it here so that a consensus can be reached on it's accuracy and that it is a true and unbiased reflection of valid media reports, as it has already been reverted a couple of times by a new User: CrazyMoMoCheese without discussion or edit summary. Amirah talk 17:48, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

References

Infobox - Presidential term end date

Mohamed's presidential term expired on 8th February 2021. Although his term has expired he has not left office. I have added this discussion in order to reach a consensus as to whether the term end date should be included in the info box. Amirah talk 00:00, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

He is still the acting president, regardless of when his term was supposed to end; as such, the end date should be removed from the infobox until someone else assumes the role of president. It's fine for the article to note when his term was supposed to end. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 00:42, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2021

Recent additions to this article are biased viewpoints and spread dangerous disinformation. The 2017 Presidential term section must be edited and the sources that are used are not credible sources, this section seems more of a gossip or opinion section rather than a neutral and informative one. Charlottecracker (talk) 16:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Please read WP:ER for instructions on how to make an edit request. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 16:27, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – robertsky (talk) 19:19, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2021 (2)

Not understanding why the admins of this page closed editing to the public but allowed 95% of editing to be one individual with biased publishing all within the last few months. This seems like a political hit job rather than the publishing of unbiased and neutral information. Compare this page to the previous President such as Hassan Sheikh Mohamud, which was also edited by the user AmirahBreen but with a more positive and neutral tone. This seems like a deliberate smear campaign. Regardless, open the page for public editing or remove the contentious information that was brought to attention. This type of page is unacceptable, additionally, the introduction is heavily opinionated and biased indicating the unprofessionalism of the editing. This page is controversial and it's best to revert it back to before it underwent a massive smear campaign by a single user. Charlottecracker (talk) 16:48, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Unclear as to which specific revision you want to revert to. no comments to the commentary before the last line. Note, if even there is specific revision identified, it is unlikely that the reversion will be carried out (at least by myself) since between then and now, there have been contributions by many other editors as well to bring a balance of views to the article. – robertsky (talk) 19:19, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Request for Comment

Rfc on neutrality of article, is it a fair reflection of reliable sources, particularly the section on Presidential Term (2017-2021) and the introductory paragraph. Amirah talk 02:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC) Amirah talk 02:15, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

See Talk:Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed/Archive 1#Neutrality section above, as well as recent edit requests; the Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed#Presidential_term_(2017–2021) section of the article is a nothing but criticism, as it's been written mostly by an editor who seems to have a bias against Mohamed. This is in sharp contrast to the article about Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, one of Mohamed's rivals for the presidency; that article contains no critical material as far as I can see. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 04:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I am also asking for opinions as to whether the article is a 'fair reflection of reliable sources'. As far as I am aware the purpose of RFC is to invite discussion from editors who have so far not been involved. The instructions for making an RFC also state that it should be made in a neutral manner. User:Ohnoitsjamie has been involved in previous editing and discussions on this article, which is one of the reasons I have submitted an RFC. Everything which he has said here he has already said in previous discussions and I do not wish to be drawn into repetition of arguments which have already been made with him. I would like to hear opinions from editors who have so far not been involved please. Amirah talk 05:03, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm here in response to Ohnoitsjamie's contacting me for a opinion. This looks like a long term issue, with an appearance of WP:OWNERSHIP. A lengthy section of primarily negative incidents, added exclusively or nearly so by a single editor, ought to raise a red flag. I'd suggest that both parties take a break from editing this, and allow for a broader consensus to form, which may be hastened by opening a thread at either the ANI or BLP noticeboards. I'm going to ping another editor whose experience with biographies I value, Melcous. 2601:188:180:B8E0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 05:27, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you User:Melcous I appreciate you taking the time and trouble to help with this. Amirah talk 05:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm not Melcous, but am requesting their thoughts. 2601:188:180:B8E0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 05:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, you too User:2601:188:180:B8E0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63, the comments you made on your talk page about checking the validity of sources would be very helpful. I have tried to use reliable sources throughout, and where I am not so sure I have added multiple sources if possible. It would be very useful for someone to go through the article and double check that the sources themselves are not bias. Thank you. Amirah talk 05:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I first saw this page when patrolling requested edits and immediately thought that whole presidential section was just a list of issues someone had with him. There is definitely sourcing for accomplishments during his presidency, and not just stark criticism. Farmaajo’s biggest achievement and what he will be remembered for long after he is gone is the fact that he secured debt relief for Somalia. Also from that source According to Africa Command Director of Public Affairs Col. Chris Karns, at one point in time, 80%-90% of Southern Somalia was overrun by the al-Shabab terrorist group. Today less than 20% of Somali territory is under their control. The reformation of the Somali Armed Forces has been without a doubt a priority for all previous administrations; however, Farmaajo has made rapid progress. Also Despite the COVID-19 outbreak, the World Bank reported that Somalia’s economy is projected to grow by 3.2%, the highest it has been in four years. Since Farmaajo was elected, Somalia’s revenue has been on an upward trajectory. Another source opens with Somalia President Mohamed Abdullahi “Farmajo” will mark his one year in office on February 8, celebrating a few successes that eluded his predecessor. That source also contains President Farmajo has made progress in breaking the Galmudug deadlock after Ahlu Sunna Wal Jama, based in Dhusomareb, made concessions to work with Mogadishu. He has also made efforts to reduce corruption, which was one of his main campaign slogans. He eliminated ghost workers and reduced wastage in the finance ministry. So all in all the current section about his presidency is non-neutral and not a reflection of available sources. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for this ScottishFinnishRadish I would also like to point out that although you just removed content from the article giving grounds in the edit summery that 'the statement was sources to the primary source', the whole of the 'Reforms' section is also sourced solely to the primary source. It would be helpful if anyone can find secondary sources which would back up this section. Otherwise, it may also be removed. Amirah talk 12:49, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Secondary source added. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@AmirahBreen, in that case do you agree that we should be removing anything sourced to a primary source? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:44, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I didn't say that. Amirah talk 13:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Attempted motion for impeachment

Some of the content in this sub-section has been removed by User:ScottishFinnishRadish on the ground that there is 'No need for that much detail on a document that was put forward with fake signatures.' The document was first put forward by the authors and then it was signed by those who agreed with it. Many people agreed with it whose signatures were not fake. The fact that 14 people later said they hadn't signed it doesn't prove that their signatures were fake, but even if they were fake nobody knows who faked these signatures but these signatures don't detract from the importance of the document and the right of those who authored it to make their voices heard in my view. Amirah talk 13:08, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

The section still had too much detail for a failed and "invalid" impeachment document that was never voted on or brought to the floor. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:14, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Ok, you are entitled to your opinion. I beg to differ. I also can't understand your reason for the edit summary which says 'Don't need to quote the same person multiple times in one section.' What is wrong with quoting the same person twice in one section, unless it is repeatition? Besides, the quote you removed was by 'opposition leaders' not by an individual person. Amirah talk 13:19, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

“What the president is doing is unconstitutional. He is like a man who is still living with and having children with his divorced wife. The current government is the same, it is an illegitimate government,” the former president said. and Former Somalia President Hassan Sheikh Mohamud has accused incumbent Mohamed Abdullahi Farmajo of openly disregarding provisions of the constitution. Same guy, two quotes, undue weight. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:35, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I would also like to draw your attention to The three revert rule, you have made six edits in under an hour which remove content I added to the article. Amirah talk 13:32, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Please fully read any policy you're quoting, otherwise you may appear that you're just trying to stop changes to an article you believe you WP:OWN. A series of consecutively saved reverting edits by one user, with no intervening edits by another user, counts as one revert ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:36, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

'An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page—whether involving the same or different material—within a 24-hour period. An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. Violations of the rule often attract blocks of at least 24 hours. Fourth reverts just outside the 24-hour period may also be taken as evidence of edit-warring, especially if repeated or combined with other edit-warring behavior. ' Amirah talk 13:33, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I am asking you to slow down. If I believed I 'owned' the article as you say, then I would not have invited discussion and input from previously uninvolved editors such as yourself.You are now being confrontational telling me that I think I own the article. It is not true. I do not 'own' the article and I am perfectly aware of the fact that I don't 'own' it. Amirah talk 13:43, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

You just accused me of edit warring, saying I broke 6RR and you say I'm being confrontational? What do I need to slow down? I haven't made any drastic changes at this time. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:46, 12 March 2021 (UTC)]

I am holding back from editing the article myself, to give others a chance to edit it, but the rapidity with which you are removing previous edits I have made is concerning me. I drew your attention to the 3RR, I did not accuse you of breaking it. Again, I feel you are being confrontational. Amirah talk 13:54, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I could have done it in one large edit, but I feel that smaller edits are easier to read, understand and discuss. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that's not a problem. I agree with you about that. Amirah talk 14:09, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Announcement of flag lowering and three days of national mourning

ScottishFinnishRadish removed this section. I felt it should be on this page because such an announcement is a decision which is usually made by a head of state. As interim president I felt that it went in his favour that he did this and helped to balance opinions expressed elsewhere that he supported Siad Barre regime. Amirah talk 15:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I think it's pretty solidly undue. It is a routine task by an acting head of state. Doesn't need mention in the article about the person Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:51, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@AmirahBreen: However, having flag at half-mast for people contributing to the nation in a major fashion is a routine event. Likewise, for making statement on the death of a former head of state by a sitting head of state, be it interim or permanent one. as what ScottishFinnishRadish indicated, this shouldn't be in here. Rather it fits better in Ali Mahdi Muhammad's page. – robertsky (talk) 16:00, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Renunciation of U.S. citizenship

ScottishFinnishRadish removed the text which stated that Farmaajo did not explain why renounced his U.S. citizenship. There was a clear cited source given which said this. There was also speculation in many media sources as to why he renounced his U.S. citizenship. Although he was not obliged to give a reason to the public, doing so would have demonstrated transparency, particularly as he held U.S. citizenship at the time of his election and had earlier claimed political asylum in the U.S. As the speculation for his reasons are only ideas and opinions they were not added to the article, but that he gave no explanation as to why is a fact. None of the sources which speculate as to why he did it state that he actually gave any reason himself. Amirah talk 15:57, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

And therefor we don't say anything about why he renounced his citizenship. All the AP said was The office of Somalia's president says he is giving up his United States citizenship but it is not immediately clear why. The second source makes no mention or commentary on it aside from a decision seen by some compatriots as an attempt to win support ahead of a run for a second term. It's simply undue to add a hanging "he never explained it" in an encyclopedia article about him unless there is secondary sources providing commentary on why that matters. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

The following sources gives insight into some legal facts as to why it matters Amirah talk 16:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Which doesn't discuss him "not explaining" why. It just gives a few reasons why someone might do it. You could add a "he never explained it" to anything the guy has ever done that anyone has ever speculated on the motives of if we accepted your reasoning. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:19, 12 March 2021 (UTC)