Talk:Japanese yen

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Graphs near plaza accord section

The graphs contain no legend of what exactly is plotted on the vertical axis. Due to the current exchange rates, the average reader will probably assume that it's the value of a $ measured in ¥ but that seems to conflict with the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.67.227.181 (talk) 10:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Name in Japanese?

According to the infobox, the name of the currency is 日本円 but the lead sentence says yen (Japanese: 円, symbol: ¥; code: JPY; also abbreviated as JP¥)

So which is correct?

1. Is 円 an abbreviation?
2. Or is 日本円 the currency and 円 the unit? [like Renminbi/yuan or sterling/pound].
3. Or is 円 the currency symbol used when writing in Kanji (or do I mean Katakana?) as opposed to ¥ used when writing in Romaji?
4. Something completely different?

I hope this makes sense! 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:58, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

日本 = Japan, 円 = yen. So the currency is Japanese yen/日本円 and the unit is ¥/円. Jpatokal (talk) 07:17, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I have corrected the infobox. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:18, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

I am not sure 円 is a "symbol"; it is the word itself, like writing out "dollars". That said it is like the dollar sign in some situations, so this is perhaps an area of linguistic misalignment. CMD (talk) 11:21, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

In this context, currency, it is definitive a symbol if it is used in formats like "円 100.75", "$ 24.50". Does not matter if the character is (also?) used in regular sentence (as with "dollar"). DePiep (talk) 11:27, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Used as symbol at 1 yen coin. -DePiep (talk) 11:32, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

When written, 円 appears after the number, eg. "100.75 円". This is due to it being an actual Japanese word, and it is used in this fashion on the coins. 円 is distinct from the ¥ symbol, which when used is placed before the number, as in your example, much like the dollar sign is. CMD (talk) 12:30, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Before or after is irrelevant. In-sentence usage is irrelevant (as already said).

Point is: in "100.75 円" it is used as a symbol. As in: amount=number × symbol; much like quantity amount: like "50 kg"=number × unitsymbol. (Incidentally — distraction ahead ;-) — in English, this can be in a sentence too). DePiep (talk) 12:49, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

That use does not make it a symbol. It's used as number x word, much like writing "one pound" or "one dollar" does not make "pound" or "dollar" a symbol. Unless perhaps you define all words as symbols, which doesn't seem to be the intent of the infobox. CMD (talk) 12:54, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

It does make. Use elsewhere does-not-matter. Your dollar example is A. reverse logic, B. not applicable because "$" ≠ "dollar". No one is proposing or claiming "dollar is a symbol". Noone. Now, it can very well being used elsewhere or otherwise as a word, but that does not change the proof in your own example: "100.75 円". DePiep (talk) 13:04, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

It is, in that example, used as a word. A script being logographic does not mean a standalone word become a symbol. CMD (talk) 13:07, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

No it's not. Neither in 1 yen coin. You still have to prove that is cannot and is not used as a symbol. Instead, you keep entering on the wrong side: "it's a word so in cannot be a symbol is incorrect logic" (??). Yuo are not disproving anything. DePiep (talk) 13:12, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

It is also a word on the 1 yen coin. The writing on the coin is literally just the words "one yen". It is the same as the use of words on American coinage, Australian coinage, New Zealand coinage, British coinage, Russian coinage, Euro coinage, and likely others. CMD (talk) 13:30, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

A few points:

1. order does not matter: for example the convention in anglophone countries is to write €100, whereas in francophone [and more] it is 100 €.
2. as DePiep says, what matters really is actual usage: 円 is a single character symbol that being used to show that the number 100 is the price. (Yes, I appreciate that the Japanese scripts do not use simple Latin-style alphabets.)
3. There was a long discussion at template talk:infobox currency into what is the distinctive difference between a currency abbreviation and a currency symbol. This issue is very similar and we could only conclude that evidence of actual usage and (better stil) reliable sources could be the only determinant.
4. I have the impression (no more) that ¥ is little used in Japan, that it is more for use with Western alphabets, but I have no solid evidence for that one.
5. It seems reasonable to me to recognise the equal validity of other cultures where we can, without losing sight of the fact that this is en.wikipedia. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:44, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Point 5 is key here. We shouldn't say something is a symbol, which will have a certain connotation to English speakers, when it is a genuine word; nor should words of other cultures not be considered words because they are logographic. Re point 1, that is true that order varies in a global sense, but the order is specifically pertinent here because the Yen symbol is used in Japan in a different position to the word yen (円). 円 is used in normal word order, much as English speakers say "10 dollars", while ¥ is placed where it wouldn't be pronounced. Commons has some examples of both uses: use of ¥, use of 円. It even has a sign which shows how 円 would appear if transliterated into latin characters here. This image shows both side by side, as well as showing 円 being used within a longer phrase. CMD (talk) 15:31, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

The pictures are worth a thousand words. The syntax distinction between ¥100 and 100 円 is clearly as significant as that between £100 and 100 pounds (say, deliberately avoiding the dollar/peso/etc trapdoor). I for one now accept that 円 is not a currency symbol. (and that my point 4 is wrong).--𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:24, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Thickness and weight of 1 yen coin

One of the info regarding thickness or weight of the 1 yen coin is not right. Anyone can fix the exact thickness or weight here. 37.111.157.107 (talk) 08:00, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Admittedly, the citation says nothing about the coin's thickness, but the mass of 1 gram is stated rather clearly. Do you have any reliable sources that list the coin's thickness? Vgbyp (talk) 09:36, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Average spot rates v USD

Can anyone add the figures for recent times to the table "Average spot rates v USD", please? @LendingWiki:? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:39, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Understood. We will make the additions within the next week. LendingWiki (talk) 20:41, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Added based on Bank of Japan data. LendingWiki (talk) 21:27, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

References

"Real effective exchange rate"

Is this another name for purchasing power parity? Or something else? (If so, what?) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Something else: see Effective exchange rate. Rate against a relevant basket of currencies so as not to give undue weight to any one comparator (typically, the US dollar, which is itself subject to market-led booms and busts).

"Japanese authorities likely to intervene"

Just to explain my broken edit summary... An isolated one-day Forex rate is not significant so, per policy WP: Wikipedia is not a newspaper, we do not report it. Prediction of BoJ intervention fails WP: Wikipedia is not a crystal ball so is also not permitted. However, if (and only if) the BoJ actually does intervene, then at that point we can report an actual intervention. But not before. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 08:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Comparative Management Seminar

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 January 2024 and 20 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Makkyno (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Makkyno (talk) 18:21, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

"Major" - seriously?

@LendingNext: You wrote The impact of the weak yen has had a major negative impact on large parts of the Japanese economy, including the cancellation of a number of major events. This is why I reverted it:

Major assertions need major sources, economic commentators of the highest standard. Your supporting citation is an example (examples are not a valid citations, per WP:NOR) of a minor source reporting that the principle of 100¥ shops doesn't work any more. Well try finding a 100 cent shop in the US or EU any more, even a 100p ("pound shop") in the UK. Is an air guitar festival a "major event"? We've had domestic inflation, now you are seeing imported inflation. I realise that most Japanese people have no experience of inflation and the consequent de facto loss of value of their savings. But depreciation of the yen is the result, not the cause. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 08:29, 15 May 2024 (UTC) (revised 09:09, 15 May 2024 (UTC))

The Air Guitar Japan Championships itself is not a major event, but it is reported by TBS, a major mass media outlet, and we have decided that it is verifiable and therefore of high importance and have published it. LendingNext (talk) 09:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

No, this is your analysis of two examples and is thus contrary to WP:No original research. The TBS article reports these two examples without comment, so it does not provide the required support for your assertion. Furthermore, "major mass media outlets" are elsewhere associated with sensationalist and poorly evaluated reporting, so its reliability would be questioned even if it did comment. For our article to say that yen weakness has had a major negative impact on large parts of the Japanese economy, you would have to provide multiple sources or respected economists who have reached that conclusion from their analysis of the evidence. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 09:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes. The weak yen has caused a sharp rise in prices in Japan, forcing many Japanese to save money. There are a number of negative effects, for example, the average Golden Week budget has decreased by almost 10 000 yen.[1][2] LendingNext (talk) 10:05, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Stick to the claims directly stated in sources. Do not synthesize new claims sources do not directly say, that is original research. Remsense诉 10:41, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Understood. We will add other key analyses etc. as we find them. LendingNext (talk) 10:47, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

When you say 'we', are you saying that multiple people use this account? Remsense诉 10:48, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Apologies. This is an automatic translation error. LendingNext (talk) 10:53, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

In practice, I am the only one using it. LendingNext (talk) 10:54, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Understood. Remsense诉 10:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Every connection you've made there is not explicated in the sources, and is thus original research. Stick to what sources directly say. Remsense诉 09:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Edit war over date format

There is a silly edit war going on over how to write dates. This has been seen many times in many articles and there is a Wikipedia policy for it: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Retaining the existing format. It says to use the style that has been the established practice for in the article for many years. So going back ten years to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Japanese_yen&oldid=590372945, we find

Fixed value of the yen to the US dollar
The yen lost most of its value during and after World War II. After a period of instability, on 25 April 1949 the U.S. occupation government fixed the value of the yen at ¥360 per US$1 through a United States plan, which was part of the Bretton Woods System, to stabilize prices in the Japanese economy.

so the established style is ddmmmmmmmyyyy.

The only exception to that rule is Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Strong national ties to a topic which says

Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the date format most commonly used in that nation. For the United States this is (for example) July 4, 1976; for most other English-speaking countries it is 4 July 1976.

Japan is not an English-speaking country, so the exception does not apply.

If there is any doubt about the relevance of this policy, please ask at the Wikipedia:Teahouse for clarfication.

The edit war ends now. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:33, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Short description

Does it really make sense to add "of Japan" to the short description of the article titled "Japanese yen". Given that the short description always follows the article's title and its main purpose is to help discern it from similarly titled articles, how does adding "of Japan" adds anything of value to the short description? Vgbyp (talk) 10:01, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

There are advantages, such as the ability to make a clear distinction from other currencies, such as the Chinese yuan, whose symbols are identical. LendingNext (talk) 04:29, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Not sure what a currency symbol has to do with this (this article doesn't show up near the top of the search when searching for ¥), but how unclear can the distinction between 'Japanese yen - Currency' and 'Chinese yuan - Currency' be? It looks like I'm probably missing some short description usage where adding 'of <country>' would be relevant, but I cannot find it. Could you please direct me to an example where this is the case? Vgbyp (talk) 08:48, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I think it makes sense. French Franc is no longer used, but it was the currency of France. I think this can be a short good description:

Official currency of Japan

We know it used today, we know it is a curreny (some people may not know the Yen is currency) and we know its the official currency of Japan. O.maximov (talk) 12:22, 13 August 2024 (UTC)