Talk:Celebration, Florida

Community

Celebration as a community is running out of locations for people to meet, thus a Civic Corridor is being developed. The Civic Corridor, which is soon to be under construction, has been pushed by the community and the church-body of HELLebrate Church.

There are those who completely remove the community category, remove any church organization, or edit the community section, who do not live in this town, nor do they have any involvement in this town. They have no right to commit any changes when they have no basis for there changes, other than bigotry. Below is a excerpt from the page on Community.

"Western cultures are thus said to be losing the spirit of community that once were found in institutions including churches and community centers. Sociologist Ray Oldenburg states in The Great Good Place that people need three places: 1) The home, 2) the office, and, 3) the community hangout or gathering place."

Proud to be serving the community of Celebration, Fl Meleniumshane90 —Preceding comment was added at 22:18, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

That's all well and good, but you don't need to list every church in town. Most other town articles don't have that. You also aren't supposed to advertise events if they aren't otherwise notable, and you are not supposed to make judgments about them, like the event was good or bad or what have you. --AW (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Really, but listing associations (which is done on countless other pages) is all well and good. Would this be different if it wasn't a church. May I direct people to religious intolerance. Saying an event had 2500 people show up on its debut, which is fact, is hardly making a judgment. Now, I do thank you for being the only one who actually read and post something here, rather than just removing all of the legitimate information here. Just to let everyone know, I work in the town, and my information is first hand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meleniumshane90 (talk • contribs)

Some of those community organizations govern the town while the churches don't. I'm sure that was a good event, but Wikipedia is not a place to advertise events. You also are not supposed to give value judgments on anything, such as "an unexpected but appreciated guest...", nor is the article a place for writing about the event "rain delayed the event...". Please see Wikipedia:Five pillars and the Wikipedia:Introduction page for more info on how to edit, and WP:NPOV for keeping a neutral point of view. --AW (talk) 20:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Everyone misses the point that I live and work in the town, and have a completely neutral point of view on the subject matter. I have been the subject of immediate disapproval by people who do not live anywhere near Celebration, let alone Florida! This is a distinguishable page, why continue going back to the page and completely delete any religious aspect of the community? Once again, I direct anyone who doesn't belive there is an association between communities and churches, then read the article (from above) on this link Community.

Oh, and the best person on here, besides the random IP attacks, is user talk:Mhking has actually went as far as to continue to modify my PERSONAL page and spam it unmercifully. Meleniumshane90 (talk) 02:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Please do not make untrue charges regarding my edits. My edits to your talk page have been to restore warning templates as governed by Wikipedia policy. In addition, my edits regarding the removal of spam links here are governed specifically by Wikipedia's policy on external links. Your false charges are unwarranted and unappreciated. --Mhking (talk) 02:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

CC&Rs

I removed some language which I thought sensationalist about the CC&Rs (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions) associated with Celebration, as I don't think it's at all material to Celebration.

Comparison of Census/American Community Survey numbers on housing construction and these estimates of [community association governed housing] show that a consistent 30-50% of new houses built since the 1970s have community associations attached, with a total population today of nearly 55 million Americans. Many subdivisions without community associations still have CC&Rs, but in the absence of an HOA there is no enforcement authority. Attached housing is rarely fee-simple, and accounts for nearly half of housing starts in America; single family houses in planned communities with common areas (e.g., recreational amenities or private streets) account for additional millions of new CC&R-governed houses. Some surveys relate that 80% of residents of these communities have never read their CC&Rs.

Homeowners' associations are indeed ubiquitous in many of the nation's fastest-growing cities, particularly in the Sunbelt and even more in Florida and California. A search of new homes for sale in Kissimmee County in the Orlando Sentinel shows that every single one is in a planned community.

Pretty much any development built in the Sunbelt since the 1980s has restricted house colors, and almost all urban historic districts (like the one I live in) do the same. This has NOTHING to do with the architectural style, or with New Urbanism, or even with Celebration: Modernist high-rise condos in New York City and schlocky golf-course retirement villas in Phoenix alike come with a thick book of CC&Rs, regulating everything from curtain colors and the age of permanent residents to the the number and type of dogs permissible and the placement of outdoor grills or signs. Some CC&Rs, notably the racially restrictive covenants that ensured segregation in the urban North and West, have been ruled unconstitutional by federal courts, but otherwise they are a legal part of everyday American life. Paytonc 01:36, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

• There is quite a difference in saying that CC&R's are "ubiquitous in all suburban development" and saying that they are common in subdivisions with areas held in common or in urban historic districts. A large number of suburban developments have neither common areas nor "thick book of CC&Rs". Where is your 95% figure from? Of the six home sales I've been involved in here, all in suburban subdivisions developed since 1910, exactly zero have had restrictive design covenents. Perhaps you are confusing CC&R's with municipal zoning authority? While it may be considered "inflammatory" to say that buyers "must sign" these restrictions, it is patently factual while your arguments for removing the language are unreferenced and, from my experience, spurious. If I'm just completely out of touch, at least have the courtesy to reference an authoritative source. --Dystopos 00:32, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

• • Okay, the 95% was made up. Perhaps I've just always lived in cities where HOAs are indeed ubiquitous -- Raleigh, LA, Boston, and Chicago, where most new housing is built either in planned communities or is in condominium form. Re-read the edited comment, please, and the edited article: all of that is factually correct, and puts Celebration into better perspective. I still do not think that this is at all material to Celebration: the new home construction market in places like Orlando is dominated by golf-course planned communities like Celebration, complete with CC&Rs that regulate house paint, yet critics want to pin Disney or New Urbanism as being the root of these. (For what it's worth, most Florida zoning laws demand that stormwater retention ponds be maintained by HOAs, not by municipalities.) Also, I am not confused about zoning vs. CC&Rs; I'm an urban planning researcher. Oh, and what's this "authoritative source" you mention? Paytonc 01:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Pretty much anything published and verifiable... not "made up" would be authoritative enough. In the end, our goal is to put Celebration into a factual and neutral perspective, not a better or worse one. I am not of the "Blame Disney and the CNU for everything bad" camp. I took more exception to the claim in your edit summary than to the content of the article. We're probably more on the same page than it seems. Let's just agree to be fair to the subject. --Dystopos 01:50, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

In perusing this article, I see no criticism at all, which seems odd. While I don't have the articles at my fingertips at present, I know that I have seen articles on the overwhelming nature of Celebration's CR&Rs, noting that they are more all-inclusive and strict that the average CC&R. The article as is sounds like it was written by a Disney PR man (or woman). RockStarSheister (talk) 00:58, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Photos

Bobak: those are great photos! Winter light can be quite a challenge. Paytonc 19:31, 6 March 2006 (UTC) edited Paytonc 01:26, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Added Images

I visited on a partly cloudy day, so the images aren't the best, but I hope these help illustrate the city a little. I wish I'd taken more of the wide variety of home styles (not just designs) in the city. Bobak 00:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph

I modified the opening paragraph to be more accurate and narative.

Disney Cast members do not receive discounts in Celebration restaurants because there is any relationship between the town and the company. It is for the same reasons they get them at the nearby Red Lobster, Chevy's, Ale House, Cold Stone, IHOP, etc. They are arrangements from the business who wants to encourage the large number of employees to patronage their location. Having worked for Disney and lived in Celebration I can state this is easily verifyable by asking the restaurant managers. Also none of the restaurants are operated by Disney. Celebration residents do (or did) get a discount at the area Chick-Fil-A once a week, and at the golf course restaurant.

I do not believe Disney is on the CROA at all now that the population has reached over 9000, but since I have not verified that I did not add that to the edit. Celebration is however now considering a proposal to incorporate.

Other information that perhaps should get mentioned (but didn't)...

With the Florida housing boom, there has been a large conversion of rental/appartment facilities in Celebration into condos. Businesses bought up all the original rental facilities, including Mirasol, Gables North, and the downtown complexes, and resold them as condos. Rentals still exist, but because there are individual owners renting their unit out or garage apartments.

They have also started to build multi-story condos on land originally designated as parking or unintended for building. This has created a large parking shortage in downtown, especially during events like the pie festival. It has also changed the look of the downtown area. The lack of parking also creates a hardship for tourists visiting the area shops and restaurants, and since several shops cater to tourists more than residents, this will eventually have a visible impact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kgbarrett (talk • contribs)

History?

Why is there absolutely no history provided re: the creation, development/planning, and intent of the community? Or why Disney has largely pulled out of it? Everything anybody would go to an encyclopedia article to learn about is conspicuously missing! ChrisStansfield 19:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I was going to ask the same? how was the city formed? by whom? when? with what motivation? I don't have a clue. --BBird 21:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

The Celebration Chronicles and Celebration, U.S.A. go rather in-depth on its history until the start of the century, so I'll probably check those out at the library and add information about it within the upcoming weeks. While I am at it, I will probably clean up the article; it's too listy and, as stated above, is not structured like a traditional city article. Slof 06:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Public Transportation

Does any public transportation operating in or around Celebration? Simon Bar Sinister 02:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

External links

The excess external links are considered spam links (per WP:EL). Please do not continue to add them. --Mhking (talk) 03:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)