Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Archive 8

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Name page that is too long

Please comment at Talk:Abdur Rahman on what to do about this very long page. Ego White Tray (talk) 8:04 pm, 5 May 2013, last Sunday (5 days ago) (UTC−5)

Chisholm Surname

Base page (http://www.chisholmname.com/scotland.html) suggesting an alternative name meaning. it has been removed when i try to edit but another alternative meaning needs to be added; The name Chisholm is said to be derived from a Norman French word "chese" meaning "to choose" and the Saxon word "holm" meaning "meadow.” The family became established initially at Roxburgh (near Kelso), once an important wool town in the Scottish borders. According to legend, two Chisholm brothers saved the life of the king of Scotland from a wild boar in the 14th century. Taken from http://www.chisholmname.com/scotland.html. Please add the edit.This meaning was also confirmed as a passed down meaning in a friend's family Chisum variation.

Barrett (name) correction request to Admin

Please correct the following inaccurate statement regarding the Barrett name.

Barrett is a common Afrikaans surname that occurs in South Africa.[citation needed]

The name Barrett has never been associated with the Afrikaans people. Whilst there are people who live in South Africa with the Barrett name they are usually descendents from the United Kingdom.

As can be verified on one of the links submitted below, a search on the white pages of South Africa reveals a grand total of 127 results for Barrett, including business numbers.

I submit the following for consideration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Afrikaans-language_surnames

http://buzzsouthafrica.com/afrikaans-names/

http://www.behindthename.com/submit/names/usage/afrikaans

http://www.whitepages.co.za/search/barrett/south+africa/1

PROD for Ohbabynames

Ohbabynames is within the scope of this project. I have proposed it for deletion on several grounds, all pointed out five years ago or more and not dealt with since:

1. The subject is not notable as far as the article shows: all the references are either to its own domain, or to sites that list domains or domain information.
2. The article itself is promotional.
3. The article is an orphan.

Review request & query

I have created Hanif (given name) few days ago. But it hasn't been reviewed yet. Can anyone from here review it?

WP:DABSUR states that "for short lists of name holders, new sections of Persons with the surname Xxxx or Persons with the given name Xxxx can be added below the main disambiguation list. For longer lists, create an anthroponymy list article and link to it from the disambiguation page." How many persons with a name/surname should be there to justify the creation of a anthroponymy list article? e.g., let's say there are ten persons with a particular name/surname. Should we list them on a dab page or should we create an anthroponymy list article for them? - NitinMlk (talk) 23:45, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Done. It usually takes more than a day for new pages to get patrolled because of the huge backlog at WP:NPP. There does appear to be an overlap with Hanif, particularly in the etymology section, but a separate article for the name is clearly warranted. – Uanfala (talk) 08:43, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

@Uanfala: Thanks for the review. And I agree with your observations. Hanif is the primary topic, as it seems to be a major concept in the Islam. And the Hanif article is more or less written from the mythological point of view. Had I stuffed the given name etymology/details in that, it would've become a messed up dab-cum-article page, which obviously isn't allowed by the wiki policies. - NitinMlk (talk) 20:10, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Splitting Bondi (name) into Bondi and Bondy

Hello. Could we not split Bondi (name) into Bondi and Bondy please? It's not the same name.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:47, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Sure, but what about someone like Beulah Bondi who was born Beulah Bondy? Which page should they be on? I think it might be better if Bondy (name) was a redirect to Bondi (name), since while they're not the same name, they are very similar, and would have the same soundex (B530, I believe). Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:23, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Difference between [[ ]] and {{ }}

Hello. When I create a disambiguation page for a patronym, is there a difference between Category:Surnames and the same between double waves please?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:26, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

By default, using curly braces (double waves?) calls the template located at Template:whatever you typed and executes it. In this case it calls {{surnames}} which adds the "this page or section lists people with the surname ..." box that is normally used at the bottom of anthroponymy pages. If you type [[:Surnames]] then you get a wikilink to the article Surnames (which is a redirect to the article surname). If you meant to generate a link to the template instead of executing it, the proper code is [[:Template:Surnames]]. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:28, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Sorry I meant Category. Is there a difference between the curly braces and the category please?Zigzig20s (talk) 13:45, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: Calling {{Surname}} with the curly braces add both the message "this page or section list people with the surname..." as well as placing the page in Category:Surnames. The template also flags the page as being in the hidden category Category:All set index articles, which some tools may make further use of. It's better to add the template than the category by itself.

Surname pages are usually considered "set index articles" (see WP:SIA), not disambiguation pages. Set index articles aren't bound by WP:MOSDAB, and can include information that is discouraged on disambiguation pages; in the case of surnames that information might include the origin and meaning of the name. {{Surname}} should only be used on pages that include nothing but people with that surname. If there are any non-surname uses of the title, the page should be considered a regular disambiguation page, with the template {{Disambiguation|surname}} at the bottom. A set index article on the surname could be split out from a disambiguation page if the list of surnamed people on a dab page grows long enough. Plantdrew (talk) 15:16, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

OK so, is this better?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:00, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I think that's better. And it saves you typing 9 characters in any future edits. Plantdrew (talk) 17:31, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Alcaraz (disambiguation)

Is it a disambiguation or a page in the Surname category? Xx236 (talk) 09:10, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

• It's a misnamed surname page. I've fixed it by moving it to Alcaraz (surname). -- Tavix ^(talk) 20:00, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

@Tavix: There are around thirty persons with the surname Alcaraz, which suggests that we should have a separate surname list article. Along with that, there are articles like Alcaraz, Alcaraz Rugs, and Alcaraz palace, which suggests that a dab page should also be there. - NitinMlk (talk) 20:14, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

@NitinMlk: I'm one step ahead of you. I'm in the process of writing both of those pages as we speak. -- Tavix ^(talk) 20:17, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks :) NitinMlk (talk) 20:23, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Alternate spelling dispute on Tadhg.

Could someone with more experience weight in on this discussion on the article Tadhg, I have sources which state that there are alternative spellings and another person is trying to remove them claiming that they are just misspelings but is not using anythigng reliable to back up their claims. They might be correct but I would like input from someone who knows more.*Trekker (talk) 14:32, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Rai surname

Please see Talk:Rai (surname)#Merge suggestion. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:38, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Nicknames

I've run across lists of nicknames (such as Gentleman John), and I wondered if there were a specific template to identify them, similar to {{given name}}, {{surname}}, or {{hndis}}. Are they within the purview of this project? Should they be treated as articles, dab pages, or SIAs? Does MOS:APO apply? They seem kind of orphaned. — Gorthian (talk) 21:52, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Manasses

Some help is needed to merge three articles: Manasses (given name), Manasses, and Manasseh. They all seem to cover essentially the same material. See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 December 3#Manassê. Thank you. — Gorthian (talk) 22:24, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject Anthroponymy/Archive 8 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

• Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 17:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Nicknames

Nicknames are actually a Christian reference to the devil sometimes known as "Old Nick"

Your nicknames was given so that "Old Nick" could not recognize you and "get you." Death or whatever your imagination fancies.

I don't know the whole history, but that's where the Nick part comes from.

Family DiscussionNanathebanana (talk) 01:58, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Question on "gender" in infobox

There's a question on the use of gender in an infobox related to this WikiProject. The question basically boils down to if this should show the gender of the origins of the name, or the gender in common usage.

Could participants in this project take a look at the discussion over at Talk:Ryan (given name)#male/female, and provide their input? Thanks! --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:53, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Atana, a.k.a. (Athena) move request

I'm requesting Atana be moved to Atana (raga) because it's currently an article on music of India, when Atana as known in the West is an alternate spelling of Athena, or a ‘proto-Athena,’ and there are also two or more other languages with the word having different meanings. The main page should be a disambiguation. If any page had the main article, I'd have preferred it be Athena. I've opened a move request discussion you can join.--dchmelik (t|c) 05:39, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

List "segregated" by nationality/ethnic group

Another editor and I disagree on the formatting of Lala (surname). Could we get some other opinions on the talk page? Clarityfiend (talk) 00:05, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Wright

I've made a proposal at talk:Wright#Split article to split the list of Wright-surnamed people into its own article. Comments invited. DonFB (talk) 11:59, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Deletion of a page?

Hello,

I've made some changes to the "Vadim" article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim ), adding to it a list of people wearing it as a given name, and also the list of people wearing it as a surname.

There's an article "Vadim (surname)" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_(surname) ) and I think it should be deleted.

Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vadim2501 (talk • contribs) 21:17, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for expanding that article, Vadim2501. As for Vadim (surname), it should probably be redirected to Vadim as a perfectly acceptable {{R from unnecessary disambiguation}}, although it's also an option to let it stay separate – the surname and the given name, if not related, constitute separate encyclopedic subjects. On a side note, it's worth pointing out there should only be entries for people who we already have articles for (see WP:WTAF). Having said that, I wouldn't bother with removing the red-linked entries, as these appear to be notable people and it's probably a matter of time before articles get created about them. – Uanfala (talk) 21:42, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

I've just noticed that there are articles about quite a few more Vadims that aren't included in the list. – Uanfala (talk) 21:46, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello (I don't know if I'm doing this properly). I believe that, in that case, they should be kept together, as the meaning is the same. The use of a first name, as a surname, happens sometimes for children who are managed by social care services. For the red links, I've copied the entry from another wikipedia language (only translated the roles and copy/pasted the listing from another first name on the english wikipedia). So I assumed I should keep them. Yes, I know there's a lot more to do. Thanks for your answer, and have a great day! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vadim2501 (talk • contribs) 08:57, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Cleaning up a set index article

Hey, I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on Routledge (surname). It's clearly a genealogy of the family name, and a teeny tiny little list of recent surnames. Should the majority of the content be split into something like Genealogy of the Routledge family or History of the Routledge family, with the actual "list of surnames" kept at the current location? I know something needs to be done, but I'm not sure what. Primefac (talk) 14:52, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

The problem with it is there's a lot of minor details that needs to be trimmed off. It reads more like a book than an article. If enough details are trimmed away, including all those block quotes, there'll be a better balance. I don't think a split is warranted. -- Tavix ^(talk) 15:14, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your comments. I have been uncomfortable with the format from the beginning and will have to rethink how best to proceed. I do want to include details that place the names within the historical context of time and place rather than a simple list of names. I will try trimming and removing most block quotes but think I would prefer a more book-like format if "History of the Routledge surname 15th to 17th centuries" would be acceptable at Wikipedia or just too long. All comments much appreciated.Diane Redfern (talk) 00:08, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

For those interested, the bulk of the content (i.e. everything other than a list of people with the surname) has been moved to History of Routledge surname 15th to 18th centuries. Primefac (talk) 13:11, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Archive 8/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Anthroponymy.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

• The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
• The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
• The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Anthroponymy, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Charles Adamson#Merger proposal

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Charles Adamson#Merger proposal. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:54, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Discussion Talk:Fan_(surname)#Fan vs Fàn (Chinese family name)

Just a note on this possible issue of interest to the project Talk:Fan_(surname)#Fan vs Fàn (Chinese family name) KylieTastic (talk) 12:11, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Unknown "Lea"

Recent anonymous addition of 15-year old "sex image" Lea Häring as a notable person on Lea (given name) seems questionable. What's the process for removal of entries? SaschB (talk) 00:38, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

@SaschB: This is a redlink which should be removed anyway. The purpose of a page like that is to point users to other, existing articles that they may want to read, not any conceivable thing that could be written. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:15, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Should these pages be project-tagged?

An editor has been recently creating talk pages with the project tag for what seems to me like an excessively broad range of pages. These include disambiguation pages that presently include lists of people (like Edo (disambiguation)), or redirects from surnames to biographies (like De Bhál which targets Éamonn de Bhál). I don't think these are useful: sure, if De Bhál ever gets expanded into a surname index, then the project tag would be suitable, but until and unless this happens, the presence of a talk page I think only confuses and adds clutter. Any thoughts? – Uanfala 08:49, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

If the project doesn't want surname pages tagged, then I will of course, not tag them but I don't see how the examples are a problem: Category:Redirect-Class_Anthroponymy_articles and Category:Disambig-Class_Anthroponymy_articles exist. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:00, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

They should be tagged, a surname list within a dab page is still relevant. Mass tagging is useful as it provides a list of articles that likely need curating. —Xezbeth (talk) 09:08, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, if that's the rationale, then I think they shouldn't be tagged. If we need a list of such dab pages, then this job is done by the given name or surname parameters of the {{Disambiguation}} template that is placed on the dab page anyway. These populate the categories Category:Disambiguation pages with surname-holder lists ad Category:Disambiguation pages with given-name-holder lists. Project-tagging the talk page is then redundant, and it also adds minor annoyances for future maintenance (see the documentation of the {{WikiProject Disambiguation}} banner for why talk pages of dab pages shouldn't be created if they only contain project tags). – Uanfala 09:53, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Mainspace categories are completely separate from project tags. All name lists should be tagged, and since some name lists are baked into dab pages they should be tagged as well. And loads of them already are. —Xezbeth (talk) 11:40, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

You seem to be presenting this as an article of faith. Are there any practical reasons for having these two parallel tracking systems? Given the burden that is thus placed the future maintenance of dab pages, there really ought to be a good reason. – Uanfala 17:57, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

List of people with craters of the Moon named after them and List of craters on Mars named after people

The discussion at Talk:List of people with craters of the Moon named after them#Requested move 28 September 2017 regarding proposed renaming of the two main headers listed above, may be of interest. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 15:26, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Standards for surname SIAs?

I recently created an SIA, and now I'm confused as to what the standards of keeping it on the encyclopedia are. The SIA contains two entries: one that has an article, and another that is currently a redirect to what I realized is an article where the subject is not mentioned. Is there a specific standard for such SIAs? Thanks in advance. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 22:57, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

The standards can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Standards. My recommendation would be to redirect it to the name that does have an article as an {{R from surname}}. Redirects without mention are not helpful and should be deleted unless information can be added somewhere. -- Tavix ^(talk) 23:37, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Unreferenced content at Fluker

Should the unreferenced content at Fluker be removed? I think so. If you agree, could you please remove it? Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 20:55, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes. I have done so per WP:UNSOURCED. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:36, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. They owned the Asphodel Plantation, by the way. But good call!Zigzig20s (talk) 22:05, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

List of craters on Mars named after people

The discussion at Talk:List of craters on Mars named after people#Requested move 28 October 2017 regarding proposed renaming of the main header listed above, may be of interest. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 01:45, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Anthroponymy

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod ^talk 12:27, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Please come and help...

Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:Philip Murphy#Requested move 25 November 2017, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks,  Paine Ellsworth  ^put'r there  01:45, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Hello fellow Wikipedians! I'm proposing merging your page Lionel with Lionel (disambiguation), so that the list of people with the given name 'Lionel' are included in the disambiguation page, along with companies and places with the same name. I understand that Wikipedia:WikiProject_Anthroponymy likes to have an article on every given name, but in this case, Lionel just lists the people with that name, and doesn't have any information on the name's origin, etc. I believe this makes it confusing, as right now it is kindof acting as a second disambiguation page just for names. I have added merger tags to both articles. Please discuss at Talk:Lionel (disambiguation). Daybeers (talk) 20:06, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Hussein

Do we link disambiguations or rather copy/paste their content?Xx236 (talk) 09:14, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Is that about merging Hussein (disambiguation) into Hussein? Not all of its entries are about people, so I don't think a merge would be a good idea. – Uanfala (talk) 14:59, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

First names as articles or as disambiguation pages?

While working on disambiguation, I just noticed that many first names are just disambiguation pages, while the treatment of the name, which in my humble opinion is in most cases the clear primary meaning, is relegated either to a subsection (such as Alena#People) or an article with a modified title (such as Sebastian (name). Is that desired? — Sebastian 11:26, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Not much activity in this project, SebastianHelm, is there?. Leaving aside the occasional pages that seem unsure if they want to be a dab page or an anthroponymy article, I don't think there any large-scale problems. It's alright for a dab page to contain a list of people with the name, and I don't think it's a worthwhile investment of time to split off that list unless it's either very long or there is encyclopedic content about to be added. To be fair, there is a large number of given name pages without any content beside the list of people, so it's conceivable that the editors creating them might disagree with me on this point.

As for primary topic issues, these are decided on a case-by-case basis. Some given name articles do occupy primary titles to the exclusion of the corresponding dab page (like William), but in many cases they don't, and for good reason. Given names are barely encyclopedic and so readers are unlikely to come here looking for information that would normally be found in an anthroponymy dictionary; also, the lists of people serve only a very marginal disambiguation purpose: people aren't usually known by their given name in generic contexts (that role is served by surnames, at least in the majority of cultures that the persons we have biography articles for come from). In the case of Sebastian for example, the dab entries that readers are most likely to be looking for are the saint and the films, so the name is definitely not the primary topic. – Uanfala (talk) 20:43, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Teahouse question

Someone from this WikiProject may be able to put us on the right track at Wikipedia:Teahouse#Searching Sevåg regarding pages about given names and what to do with them. Thanks. GMG^talk 13:58, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Infobox images in name articles

I'm wondering if there are any criteria for detemining which image to use in Template:Infobox given name2, etc. other than image-licensing related things such as WP:NFC or WP:COPY. For example, Ai (given name) is using a picture of Ai Shinozaki (gravure idol), but there are plenty of other freely licensed images which also could be used of others named Ai, some who might be better known than Shinozaki. Is this just typically something determined through local consensus on a case-by-case basis or is there some kind of established WikiPRoject guideline which is followed? -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:30, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

My personal opinion is that sticking the photo of a random person with the name into the infobox is pretty silly. Of course, there are conceivable images that can be relevant: like a calligraphic representation of the name written out. – Uanfala (talk) 03:42, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Book about the Elliston family

Hello. I am looking for The Elliston, Ellison family by Bertha Bazemore Elliston. Only a few clips are viewable on Google Books and it's not available on Amazon or Ebay. Could someone please help me find a copy? Please ping me when you reply. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:10, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Collopy

Hello. I was going to create Collopy as there are at least three notable individuals with the name on Wikipedia, but I see that it was deleted in 2006. Was that before this WP was created, and would anyone be able to find more info about the name to make sure it stays? Please ping me when you reply. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:42, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

The deleted page was nonsensical. I don't see any bar to creating a valid page. older ≠ wiser 12:00, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: adding requested ping. — Gorthian (talk) 04:48, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Akins

Anatolia is the ancient area of genetic Akins DNA. The geneticists followed their migration path toward Scotland some 4K years ago, first at the northern Black Sea and then north-north-west as Norwegians. According to the same DNA findings, 89% of Akins's European root's were found on the Isle of Skye.

The Akins family surname, as with many other Scottish surnames, were created by Vikings in the 1400s, as is common knowledge. There's an Isle of Skye highland castle and town with property today, dating back to the 1400s, bearing the Akins name. The term "clan" is debatable depending on a modern nation-state definition.

Anyone addressing, please provide scientific evidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.98.159.149 (talk) 03:49, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Tylecote family

I am considering moving Tylecote family to Tylecote and saying it's a surname, not a family. There may be people with the same surname who are not a member of that family. Is there any objection to this please?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:37, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Birth name vs. name in title

I'm new to this project, having discovered it today, so I apologize if this question is one that has been answered previously. Should a person be listed on a surname page if he or she is better known by a different name? I ask that because I often edit pages of entertainers, many of whom are known by a name other than the one they were born with. For example, I am now working on the Karen Morley article. I found no page for the Morley surname, but I found one for Linton, which was her birth surname. Should I list her as "Mildred Linton, actress better known as Karen Morley", or should she not be included on the Linton page? Eddie Blick (talk) 02:29, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I often see people listed exactly that way. Go ahead and list her on both Linton (name) and Morley (name). — Gorthian (talk) 05:39, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Gorthian, Thanks for your reply! I will do both. Eddie Blick (talk) 15:18, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Micha

When you mention Polish, Czech, Slovak and other derivats of the name Michel, you can say dalmatian name Micho [Mi:ʃo]. Thanks you LaDoga213.149.62.191 (talk) 16:02, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:von Mises#Requested move 23 August 2018

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:von Mises#Requested move 23 August 2018. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:32, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Dave (given name)

What Daves should be listed here? WP:APOENTRIES isn't much help. Clearly this list is not exhaustive; there are thousands of Daves that have articles. Neither are these people generally known simply as "Dave". So why are these Daves listed? And if there's no good reason to include these Daves and exclude others, should the list simply be removed per WP:NOTDIRECTORY, and the article left as a one-line stub about the name? —swpb^{T go beyond} 16:47, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

These Daves are listed because no one has yet gotten around to adding other notable Daves. I'm not sure where NOTDIRECTORY comes into play—it's not like we are adding Dave's phone number. -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:08, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Are these really the most notable Daves? Is is realistic (or useful) to add all the notable Daves? WP:NOTDIRECTORY is certainly broader than phone numbers – what is the encyclopedic value of the list as it stands? —swpb^{T go beyond} 13:01, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Well, the article is on the name Dave, so people with the name Dave is certainly relevant to that end. With popular names, a shortcut I've seen used to some success is to link to a disambiguation page when there are multiple people with the same full name. You can see this play out in a couple different formats at Garcia (surname) and List of people with surname Smith, for example. And yes, NOTDIRECTORY is broader than phone numbers (which is just one of the examples), but you still haven't elucidated how it's relevant to this situation. -- Tavix ^(talk) 13:59, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

• The page should be deleted following multiple precedents e.g. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people named Jacob. It is sufficient to add {{lookfrom|Dave}} at the end of the article David (name). We do not make lists of people with common names. Oh dear, there is a List of people named David; that should be nominated for deletion, along with most of Category:Lists of people by given name. The people known simply as David (kings, saints etc) can be listed at David (disambiguation), see MOS:DABNAME. – Fayenatic London 11:33, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
  • WP:DABNAME specifically says that these pages should not be deleted: For short lists of name holders, new sections of People with the surname Xxxx or People with the given name Xxxx can be added below the main disambiguation list. For longer lists, and as an alternative for a short list, create an anthroponymy list article and link to it from the disambiguation page. -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:15, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
  • That's an old AfD. A newer one would be Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greg with a different outcome. There are many more lists of even more common names than that as well. —Xezbeth (talk) 21:24, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Jerry -> Jerahmiel

I came across the page about Jerry Grafstein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Grafstein to learn that Jerry is diminutive of Jerahmiel (ירחמיאל), yet on Jerry page, "Jerahmiel" is not part of the diminutives list. That should be corrected. 46.117.145.190 (talk) 11:53, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Interwiki

Some Wikipedias contain pages about surnames, some contain disambiguations. Please compare Hanusch and de:Hanusch. My interwiki has been removed even if the two pages contain similar informations.Xx236 (talk) 06:43, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

@Xx236: Each Wikipedia project has its own standards and rules. What the English Wikipedia decides to do is going to be different from other projects in some respects. Neither is necessarily wrong. — Gorthian (talk) 03:26, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Query regarding fixing of a name list

The query is regarding Makan (name), which I created yesterday.

Firstly, there are two entries in it, namely Ajay Maken & Lalit Maken. Large number of sources mention their name Ajay Makan & Lalit Makan as well. So, is it fine to add these names in the Makan (name) list? In fact, we can mention in the first sentence of Makan (name) that 'Makan or Maken is a name', and can then directly add links of Ajay Maken & Lalit Maken (without mentioning Ajay Makan & Lalit Makan). Also, is it fine to mention those names as their alternative names in the lead of their respective articles (as I did here)?

Secondly, Makan is a redirect as of now. Should we convert it to a DAB page? It will look something like the following:

Makan or Maken may refer to:

• Makan (TV series), Pakistani TV drama series
• Makan (name)
• Makan 33, Israeli television channel
• Makan Map, online atlas of Xinjiang
• Shikha Maken, director of Bachelor Girls

We can also also add Maken-ki! & Maken X to the above list, along with adding Makkan in the above suggested DAB page's See also section. And we can also create Maken as a redirect to Makan.

Thanks. - NitinMlk (talk) 22:05, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Interwiki

Some Wikipedias contain pages about surnames, some contain disambiguations. Please compare Hanusch and de:Hanusch. My interwiki has been removed even if the two pages contain similar informations.Xx236 (talk) 06:43, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

@Xx236: Each Wikipedia project has its own standards and rules. What the English Wikipedia decides to do is going to be different from other projects in some respects. Neither is necessarily wrong. — Gorthian (talk) 03:26, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Strange list format

I ran across Reed (name)#Notable persons with the surname Reed, which is the strangest format I've seen yet, if anyone is interested in standardizing it. Cheers.—Bagumba (talk) 07:39, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

I've seen that one before and bailed out of trying to change it, since it will take hours. It needs a full rewrite at some point since I imagine there's loads of missing entries as well. —Xezbeth (talk) 07:44, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

The format is unusual, but quite sensible and clear – I don't think trying to standardise it would be anything but busywork. – Uanfala (talk) 08:39, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

How is it clear? It doesn't even tell you who Luman Reed is. The few bits of information are also presented in the wrong order for no discernible reason and it segregates pseudonyms for no reason. If someone's looking for someone called "Reed" then why would they care if it's a pseudonym or not? It also tells you whether they emigrated to another country as if that's relevant information, and the focus on ethnicity is more akin to a genealogical dictionary than an enyclopedic list. —Xezbeth (talk) 10:44, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, descriptors are indeed lacking, but they could be added without changing the structure, and yes, the few pseudonyms could be interleaved with the main entries. My point was that there's nothing "wrong" with the ordering: the order within the entrties: nationality – dates – name – (occupation) is not any less clear, or any more arbitrary, than name – dates – nationality – occupation. And the order of the entries (by birth date) is arguably better than the standard: we tend to order alphabetically, but a reader who's looking for a particular person with the surname is less likely to know the first name than either their occupation or the broad period in which they lived. – Uanfala (talk) 10:57, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

The Xhosa clan names article/list is a mess!

It consists mostly of long unstructured lists of names, without any sources or explanations (at least not in English). The few sources that are cited support very little of the actual content. Unless we can find a subject expert I'm not sure the page can actually be fixed. BTW the talk page contains what looks like some discussions in Xhosa, but Google translate turns it into nonsensical English which is of no use at all to the rest of us who don't know the language. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:18, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Comment requested

Hello, Your expert comment is requested for a proposed merger here: Talk:Sublette (surname)#Proposed_merge_with_Soblet. Best wishes, Polyamorph (talk) 09:24, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Middle name v. two surnames

With Alexandre Grendene Bartelle, is Grendene his first surname and Bartelle his second surname, or is Grendene his middle name please? I got it wrong with Beedham, but I think South American names have several surnames, don't they?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:56, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Aniket

Hello. I am considering creating a short list of people with the given name Aniket, but the article has already been deleted several times. Would there be a problem with it? Please ping me when you reply. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:08, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

The name meets WP:APONOTE, so you should have no problem. The deletion log has entries only for speedy deletions, and judging by the log entries, the articles were either on a different topic, or – when the article was about the name – the deletion itself was iffy. You might save some time building the list if you use dabfix: https://dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dabfix.py?page=aniket, something you probably already know about. – Uanfala (talk) 16:36, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: I have reinstated some of the old edits, leaving out others that seemed self-promotional or pointless. Please go ahead and improve the page. – Fayenatic London 19:21, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

User:Fayenatic london: Thank you!Zigzig20s (talk) 16:54, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Resolved

Query regarding fixing of a name list

The query is regarding Makan (name), which I created yesterday.

Firstly, there are two entries in it, namely Ajay Maken & Lalit Maken. Large number of sources mention their name Ajay Makan & Lalit Makan as well. So, is it fine to add these names in the Makan (name) list? In fact, we can mention in the first sentence of Makan (name) that 'Makan or Maken is a name', and can then directly add links of Ajay Maken & Lalit Maken (without mentioning Ajay Makan & Lalit Makan). Also, is it fine to mention those names as their alternative names in the lead of their respective articles (as I did here)?

Secondly, Makan is a redirect as of now. Should we convert it to a DAB page? It will look something like the following:

Makan or Maken may refer to:

• Makan (TV series), Pakistani TV drama series
• Makan (name)
• Makan 33, Israeli television channel
• Makan Map, online atlas of Xinjiang
• Shikha Maken, director of Bachelor Girls

We can also also add Maken-ki! & Maken X to the above list, along with adding Makkan in the above suggested DAB page's See also section. And we can also create Maken as a redirect to Makan.

Thanks. - NitinMlk (talk) 22:05, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

• If Makan shouldn't be a DAB page, then Makan (name) should be moved to Makan. As of now, Makan redirects to one of the entries listed at the Makan (name), which just misdirects the readers. - NitinMlk (talk) 02:13, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Creating a disambiguation page at Makan sounds like a good idea: the name doesn't seem like a primary topic. I just think that Maken should be a different dab page as "Makan" and "Maken" are two different words (and it's apparently only in the name that they overlap). – Uanfala (talk) 13:02, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Uanfala, thanks for sorting out the relevant pages. And I've made the relevant changes at Makan. BTW, I created four (sur)name articles in the September – namely Mandeep, Sumit, Roope (name), & Makan (name) – but they are still unreviewed. So it would be nice if you could have a look at them. - NitinMlk (talk) 20:11, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm afraid I can't help with that: I don't have the technical ability to "review" pages. The articlels look good though. – Uanfala (talk) 22:03, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

I wanted to get their talk pages created. BTW, they have already been marked as reviewed by other editors. - NitinMlk (talk) 22:13, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Oh, I see. But that's not something you need to wait for others to do: you can – and probably should – create them yourself. – Uanfala (talk) 22:29, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. - NitinMlk (talk) 22:33, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Move request

Please move Roope (name) to Roope, as there is no primary topic here, thereby disambiguation is unnecessary – see WP:PRIMARYTOPIC & WP:APOTITLE. - NitinMlk (talk) 02:19, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

 Done -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:35, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. - NitinMlk (talk) 22:36, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Bibbins

Bibbins was deleted in 2006. Should it be recreated? There are at least three notable individuals with this name on Wikipedia.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:09, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: Yes. WP:NNAME says to create if two or more entries exist.—Bagumba (talk) 05:07, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I just did the same thing with Mongia.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:20, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Surname SIA creations by Zigzig20s

While I do appreciate the set indices this user has created, I have a slight problem with some of them. For example, Pannill is not the surname of Lizzie Pannill Fletcher, but rather a middle name. More examples of this were at Bullene regarding Thomas Bullene Woodward and at Beedham regarding William Beedham Starr. So my question is how is a surname properly identified in this respect? 66.87.148.227 (talk) 20:27, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Bullene and Beedham were errors, thank you for correcting them. I will make sure not to make the same mistake again. (However I thought they might have been ancestor's surnames used as middle names?) With regards to Elizabeth Pannill Fletcher, Pannill is not a middle name. Pannill is her maiden name (see "Elizabeth Fletcher (née Pannill)"). Her surname prior to her marriage did not suddenly become a middle name; it is still a surname.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:16, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Note that I asked a similar question to yours above, with regards to Alexandre Grendene Bartelle. It is tricky with Latin American surnames.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:17, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

I think this should be reverted. It's a surname...Zigzig20s (talk) 00:38, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Lists of people sharing a common name

Several years ago there were many precedents to delete lists of people sharing a common name, e.g. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people named Jacob in 2013 (which has links to older precedents near the end). I followed this in deleting the lists from Patrick (given name), but was reverted by user:Xezbeth on the basis that Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greg (in May 2018) had made those precedents obsolete.

IMHO the principle is still not clear. Some editors !voted to keep Greg for its value in disambiguation, as it is mostly a list of disambiguation pages, rather than a list of biography articles. There is a separate page Gregory (given name) which includes a partial list of the latter.

This project is probably the right place to come up with a policy on when a list would be too long to be useful. I will also notify WP Disambiguation. – Fayenatic London 11:58, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

I've assumed they were acceptable given both the number of existing lists, but especially its practice being mentioned at MOS:DABNAME.—Bagumba (talk) 12:17, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There may be other purposes of such lists, but I'm only aware of disambiguation uses. There, we already have a guideline: WP:NAMELIST. Paradoctor (talk) 12:19, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

I understand the arguments against the really common given names, and I'm not about to make a complete list of one of them any time soon. I made a complete list of Gavins a while back which is about as long as I'm comfortable doing. I don't consider Patrick to be particularly large though, worst case it would be about 5x as large as Gavin, in reality a lot less than that since there will be many links to human name dab pages in there. —Xezbeth (talk) 12:58, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Also, most of those Greg dab pages were added by me after the AfD had closed. I couldn't be bothered adding every other Greg since there was about ~3000 if I remember correctly. It doesn't really matter with given name lists since you can just throw a look from template at the bottom. —Xezbeth (talk) 13:01, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with having even an extremely long list with every notable person in the history of the world with the given name Patrick. We have space for it. It could still be useful to our readers (for example if they can remember someone's first name but not their last name...).Zigzig20s (talk) 13:06, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

I think the disambiguation value is clear, but having a list of notable people with the name helps show how the name has been used. For example, one can see the nationalities where the name is prevelant as well as which years the name was popular. -- Tavix ^(talk) 16:10, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

WAUD

I am somewhat dissatisfied with WAUD, as the surname is Waud, not WAUD. Is there a way to fix this please?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:48, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

A couple page moves, a couple hatnotes, and a reformatting of the page now known as Waud, and I think we're there. -- Tavix ^(talk) 05:46, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, much better!Zigzig20s (talk) 08:27, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Rosener

Rosener was deleted in 2005. Our guidelines for inclusion seem to have evolved. Just making sure I have consensus here to recreate it as there are three notable individuals with the name?Zigzig20s (talk) 12:09, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

As the practice of creating dedicated name lists is mentioned at MOS:DABNAME, I'd assumed it was accepted. And WP:OTHERSTUFF FWIW.—Bagumba (talk) 13:28, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, recreated.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:39, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Resolved

Xhosa clan names is a mess

It has very litle text in English to properly introduce or explain the topic. The bulk of the content is a poorly formatted bunch of names (calling it a list is a stretch) without any explanations. I'm not sure what to do about it short of WP:TNT, I hope a topic specialist might help. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:11, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

I've just put some of the Xhosa language text through Google Translate, the output is basically gibberish. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:08, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Surname articles not linked from dab pages

There are about 60 surname articles that aren't listed on the relevant disambiguation page, these are cases where the disambiguation page at "Foo" doesn't have an entry for "Foo (surname)". Usually, all that needs to be done is the addition of such an entry. One way to do that (apart from simply editing the target) is to use dabfix: most of you are probably aware of it, it's a tool that helps with editing dab pages, it can be quite powerful even if a bit intimidating at first. It can also be used on the surname articles themselves to add any people not already included. The list is below, if you take care of any of the entries, please strike it through (or add {{done}}).

Thanks in advance! – Uanfala (talk) 23:14, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

List for creation of articles about given names?

While this WikiProject does have a list for suggested names that could use their own article, all appear to be surnames and there is no sub-section dedicated to given names. Having one would be very convenient and helpful I think to the creation of new articles. SpiritedMichelle (talk) 03:03, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

I've just added a subsection for potential given names at Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Articles that could be created.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:17, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you SpiritedMichelle (talk) 03:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

List of books about surnames

I think it would very useful if we could make a list of books about surnames that we could use as RS. Especially if they are copyright-free, on the Internet Archive or Project Gutenberg.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:33, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

• A number of sources in this class can be found among sources at WeRelate. For instance, see https://archive.org/details/historygenealogy00lewi/page/n45 , which is associated with the WeReleate Source https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Source:Mrs_Florence_Virginia_Fray_Lewis._History_%26_Genealogy_of_John_Fray_%28Johannes_Frey%29_of_Culpeper_County%2C_Virginia . Now, there are editors here who would consider all genealogy texts like the one noted here as vanity press publications and, therefore, not reliable sources, so need to be prepared for that pushback. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 14:49, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Interesting take on the red-link problem

Zbigniew --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 15:04, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

I've removed the links to other language Wikipedias per WP:DABSISTER.—Bagumba (talk) 21:56, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Category:Scottish surnames v. Category:Surnames of Scottish origin

Should we merge these two categories and if not, why not please?Zigzig20s (talk) 12:10, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Given that they are covering the same basic topic, I would say yes. SpiritedMichelle (talk) 02:58, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

+1 --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 14:42, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Does anybody know why those two separate categories were created in the first place?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:49, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Mariano

Is anyone able to figure out when the infobox got messed up and fix it please?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Surnames without notable individuals

I often come across surnames without notable individuals/articles on Wikipedia, and I wonder if we should start making a draft-type list on this WP with red links for future/possible creations, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/List of surnames to create. I am not suggesting we should go out of our ways to look for notable individuals with those names and create their articles, but we could always create articles about surnames even if there are no notable name-bearers. If there is a surname, there must be some information we could find about its origin at least. Is anyone interested in this please?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:54, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Do we already have this at Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Articles that could be created? If so, why aren't there many more names?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:56, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

As an alternative suggestion, there are plenty of lists of notable people that have no text about the name itself.—Bagumba (talk) 09:58, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Looks like User:Ceyockey created Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Articles that could be created in 2008 and I am only finding out about it a decade later. Wow! I took care of Filho without seeing the note there. I think we should edit that draft page and add many more surnames/given names with red links.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:01, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

User:Bagumba: I actually tend to be opposed to adding red links of individuals to list of surnames because they may not be notable, we need an RS-backed article first. (Oftentimes they are pranks.) But Ceyockey's WP page is a draft space for us.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:01, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Sorry if I was unclear. I was referring to an existing page like Žídek, which already has a list of people, but no information on the name itself.—Bagumba (talk) 10:05, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

I was BOLD and did this and added one surname without a page yet, Danswan. If you google it, you will see that there are many matches, including on Ancestry.com, not necessarily an RS but my hope is that we can eventually find RS from books etc to create an article. And eventually there may be notable individuals with this name. And we could do this with many surnames...Is anyone else excited about this?Zigzig20s (talk) 10:08, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

User:Bagumba: Yes, you make a good point. (And I've just found this that you could cite.) I used a book about the origin of Scottish surnames that I found on the Internet Archive a few weeks ago and added referenced content about their origins. (There may be more books on the IA we could use?) We definitely need to do this more. But what I am talking about here is different, it's about a draft space where we have no information. Ceyockey had the same idea as me a decade ago.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:10, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

User:Bagumba: By the way, Petraitis (with two red links) really bothers me...Zigzig20s (talk) 11:18, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

You can be bold and redirect it to the lone blue link. (BTW, this talkpage is on my watchlist, if it saves you a ping.)—Bagumba (talk) 11:26, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I think Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Articles that could be created has great potential.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:41, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Glad you might find it useful, @Zigzig20s:. My thinking is that the surname list could be created by a bot, though I've no skill in creating those myself. An alternative might to do an SQL query against Wikidata rather than surveying actual pages via searches, which was done to populate the page a decade ago. The advantage of the Wikidata approach is that it could be done across languages. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:26, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

P.S. Interesting viewing pattern at https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&start=2015-07&end=2018-10&pages=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Anthroponymy/Articles_that_could_be_created . --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:31, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Well, I don't see how a bot could add names we don't have anywhere on Wikipedia. Adding them one by one seems to be the only way.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:21, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

The surnames with potential are from searches to determine whether there are articles about people with the surname but for which a surname article has not yet been created. That evaluation can be done by bot. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:41, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Wikidata has entries for surnames regardless of whether a Wikipedia article exists or not, Margeson for example. —Xezbeth (talk) 11:07, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I've just created Margeson, but do you think it was on Wikidata because there were already two articles with this surname on Wikipedia please? Does Wikidata use Defaultsort?Zigzig20s (talk) 11:27, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I'll take a stab and say that the Wikidata surname probably came from an infobox. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:41, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

I see. I've never edited Wikidata, I am a little old-fashioned, I love the editing process itself. I hope the list of surnames to be created proves useful.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:40, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

• Coming back to this. My feeling is that the focus for creation of surname (and given name) articles should be on those names which are associated with notable individuals. For non-notable individuals, these should, in my opinion, focus on people noted in articles who have not yet achieved notability. I removed Bacle because this appeared to be mostly mentioned in articles as the surname of a source author. Now, it's perfectly OK to create surname articles for which there are no mentions in Wikipedia, but these would be true anthroponymy articles, using citations to related the origin and prevalence of the surname/given name. The majority of articles that the typical user will create will be list-type articles where the items are existing articles. So, I'd suggest a distinction between those that "typical" editors could create with little investigative effort from those that require hard-core anthroponymy research effort. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 14:41, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

I disagree. I would like you to restore "Bacle" because if there is a surname, Wikipedia needs to tell our readers what the origin of the surname is. It may take a while to find the RS for it but there is no deadline. Removing the surname from this list seems counterproductive. If we don't know such a surname exists, there is no way anybody will ever research its origin and create the article. That would ultimately hurt our readers.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:47, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

By the way, my concern with "Potential redirects for surnames (one article at last survey)" is that once we create the redirect, we don't know there are those surnames whose origin we need to research. This must be the case for many surnames not on this list. Is there a way to solve this please?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:35, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

The list of surname redirects can be found at Category:Redirects from surnames. -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:01, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

User:Ceyockey: Could you please restore Bacle, now that I've explained why I think it should be on this list? If surnames get removed from the list, there is no need to have this list. I'd like to add Gronen too but right now I am not sure, will it get deleted and if so, what is the point? Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:20, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

There is no evidence that Bacle is a notable surname. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, it should not be on that list. -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:01, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Why not? It's a draft list. The point is to list all surnames without an article so that we know what to work on and create. If we already know that a surname is notable (by finding RS), then there is no need to add it to the list at all, we can just create a stub...the list is for all the other surnames.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:45, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Because it shouldn't have an article. Per WP:APONOTE: If at least two articles matching the surname or given name of the subject of a name article do not exist, then the surname or given name list article would not be notable and should not be created. It's very rare for a surname article to pass WP:GNG without having notable people with the name, and there is zero evidence this particular name would be an exception. -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:57, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

That is not the point of this list. The point is to know the surnames exist, and then we can look for reliable third-party sources to create their articles. They won't necessarily be list-articles. They could be articles about the origins of the names. This may take a while but this list had not been edited for a decade anyway, and there is no deadline, so I don't see what the problem is.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:21, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

For example Bacle has an origin/history. We need to find reliable third-party sources about it. If we don't know that this name exists because it is not on our list of articles to create however, we will never do the research, and we will never create it.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:23, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Once again I must point you to WP:APONOTE. There is no scope for such an article without any notable people with the name. That being said, if you want to keep your own personal list on your userspace, it can contain whatever you want it to. -- Tavix ^(talk) 19:56, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. A personal list wouldn't be collaborative, that's a shame for Wikipedia, it really is a loss. I did not anticipate a problem with a draft on a WikiProject subpage as it's not in main space, but if we have a counterproductive policy, I obviously agree to comply with it and not edit as much.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Surnames of New Zealanders

Is there a correct demonym that this WikiProject uses when describing individuals of New Zealand? I’ve been using "New Zealandian" for a while but it doesn’t seem to make sense. 66.87.149.196 (talk) 23:22, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

• The New Zealand page says New Zealander, or informally Kiwi.Brianyoumans (talk) 23:49, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
• See List of adjectival and demonymic forms for countries and nations. You're wanting the adjectival form to use in surname articles, and the answer is simply "New Zealand". For example: Jacinda Ardern is a New Zealander vs. Jacinda Ardern is a New Zealand politician. -- Tavix ^(talk) 04:25, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Sourcing on Great White Hope

Great White Hope is a set index. At present it cites several dictionaries for the etymology of the nickname, but neither the set index nor most of the linked pages include references to verify individual holders of the nickname. Comments are requested at Talk:Great White Hope#Sources for individual people? Cnilep (talk) 08:31, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

(surname) in article title

Hi,

I have expanded the article Nehme (surname) and I was wondering if (surname) was required at the end of the article's name, even though there isn't an article called Nehme.

Thanks, Nehme1499 (talk) 00:18, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done Hello - you're right, if there's no page at the base name, the surname page should occupy it. I have therefore moved Nehme (surname) to Nehme, and retargetted the incoming link Nehme family. Nice work, and thank you user:Nehme1499! Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:16, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Indian patronymics

How does this WikiProject handle Indian surnames that include persons of the same patronymic surname? I notice several surname SIAs created by Rajasekhar1961 contain persons with patronymics and I was just curious on how we handle something like this. 66.87.149.130 (talk) 16:55, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Villalobos

Please see Talk:Villalobos (surname) § Extraneous text should be moved. The article includes a long stretch of text that has nothing to do with the surname Villalobos and should be moved: one part probably to Surnames and the other to Spanish surnames. --Thnidu (talk) 02:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Anyone wanna keep an eye on the Fronberg redirect?

I'm trying to handle an IP hopper on this page who keeps disruptively making changes to this redirect trying to enforce the creation of an article for a non-notable surname per WP:NNAME. I listed it at RFD back in December, with a consensus to keep the existing target, yet I don't think this anonymous user is accepting it. Personally, I cannot revert this IP hopper alone, even with the frequency of their edits. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 02:25, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Surname pages how-to guide

Please review and comment on the how-to guide Surname pages. Coastside (talk) 11:03, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Updated to more generalized style guide: WP:Name pages. Please review and comment. Coastside (talk) 01:12, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Why not build upon Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Standards?—Bagumba (talk) 02:31, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Surname index articles

Pursuant to the discussions at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Treat surname pages like disambiguation pages? and Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation#Turrini: DAB or SIA?, I started drafting Wikipedia:Surname index articles as a page for settling all of these issues. It was rightly brought up that this might better be a topic addressed under this WikiProject. My goal here is to establish the boundaries for when a surname is notable enough in its own right to merit a page separate from listing people with the surname on a disambiguation page at that title, and to express a preference for collections of surnames to be treated as a surname topic. bd2412 T 19:06, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• About Disambiguation - In most cases, lists of people sharing a surname are set index articles. There are many many "missing" disambiguation pages, though, which have not been created owing to the existence of the surname index articles and the thinking (or so I've got hints at in the past) "why create a dab page for 2 or three items when you have the surname list page". It is correct, that where only two, three, four items, {{tl:Distinguish}} could be properly used. For instance, looking at Thompson (surname), there are sets of names which would be properly disambiguated: Ben Thompson (lawman) and Benjamin Thompson; Corey Thompson and Corey Thompson (American football). On the other hand, some similar dab pages exist, such as Chris Thompson (13 items with see alsos to 2 dab pages and 2 person pages), Bill Thompson (18 items with see alsos to 2 dab pages and 1 person page) and David Thompson (couple of dozen items with a see also to a dab page). Further, the dab pages have different formats and different inclusion criteria (in regard to variations included on the same page). Also, there are two classes of dab pages which are largely missing - those dealing with given name abbreviation (B. Thompson; D. Thompson, for instance), and those dealing honorific use (Mr., Mrs., Miss, Dr., Rev.) Question becomes one of how far to take it. None of "Mr. Thompson" or "B. Thompson" would be article titles, for instance. With respect to in-line dab links, I've generally been of the opinion that the contents of the dab pages should be included in the Index set article rather than referring to the non-included set via a link - particularly as the two are different page types. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 23:12, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Please see an essay I just wrote about Surname pages. It is a more generalized discussion of the essay on surname index articles and addresses some gaps.Coastside (talk) 11:02, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Note: I have merged my proposal and Coatside's proposal together. Cheers! bd2412 T 02:34, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Missing entries

(Is this the right project?) I recently had a cause to look at DeSantis, and in the process discovered that this, and Desanti and De Sanctis, had a considerable number of missing entries (which I've added). If this is typical of surname set index and related disambiguation articles is there scope for a working party to do this same for other such articles? Lavateraguy (talk) 20:20, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

There's a a little project for keeping track of the more obvious instances of missing entries from disambiguation pages: WP:DABMISSING. It uses a tool created by Dispenser, and I guess you could ask him to add support for surname pages. Personally, I've thought updating surname lists could be a second stage in this project, to be done after the current list of missing dab entries has been brought down to a manageable size, but this is something that's going to take awhile: there are over 12,000 dab pages to update, and there is a very keen shortage of volunteers. And on a side note, if you're interested in updating a specific surname article, then you can run dabfix on it to help with the process. – Uanfala (talk) 20:58, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Aspinall: split or merge?

The surname Aspinall is a reduced form of the similar Aspinwall [1]; should the list of names at Aspinall therefore be split into a separate page at Aspinall (surname) or merged into the existing Aspinwall (surname)? PC78 (talk) 23:42, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm just happy to see someone help pull these phone books out of dab pages! :) Regarding merging or keeping separate, you could really do it both ways. Since there are so few entries in Aspinwall (surname), it's not unreasonable to combine them. If you did that, you would best create a redirect of Aspinall (surname) to Aspinwall (surname). I would include the Aspinall (surname) redirect as an entry on the Aspinall dab page. If they're separate, then they might link to one another in the See also section. From what I have seen, the harder cases are when the "reduced form" is actually a hypocorism. In these cases, there are people who have the full name and yet are referred to by the hypocorism, and there are also people who have the shortened name as their given name. It's hard to decide whether to treat these separately. An example would be "Sid" and "Sidney". Some Sidneys are called "Sid" as a hypocorism and yet there are some Sids who are just plain old Sid. You need to put the Sidneys who are called "Sid" on the Sidney name page. Coastside (talk) 01:42, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

• As far as I've sensed to date, there are no specific rules around when to split Surname pages or on what basis. I think this comes down ow how we define a Surname page. If there is sufficient information to be able to give the name a history and trace or at least enumerate variants based on good sources, then you can treat it kind of like companies and their subsidiaries - sometimes they are in the same article, often they are in separate articles; the breakdown in the case of companies and subsidiaries tends to be along notability lines - if a subsidiary can stand alone with it's own article based on notability measures, then there is no reason not to run a separate article. The situation will be more muddled for names as they are usually treated as groups of variants rather than as individual names - which is an argument for creating name pages with content based on relations among variants. There are other cases where there can be several origins for a surname, but only one source can be traced to a set of 'downstream' variants. These could be treated, just noodling here, like "aAgqwert (Lithuania)" and "aAgqwert (Arabian Peninsula)", for instance. That might not hold up under scrutiny, but it's a stab. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:49, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
  • There is a fundamental difference between a disambiguation page and a set index article. There is specific guidance about not including partial title matches on dab pages, so these lists of people belong on a different page. Which pages to put them on is where it becomes a question. Coastside (talk) 02:52, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I've written a brief intro at Aspinwall (surname) and split/merged the list of Aspinalls into there. PC78 (talk) 20:30, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Nice job. Coastside (talk) 21:16, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Note

There is a deletion discussion going on which may be relevant to this project: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mayank. Thanks. - NitinMlk (talk) 22:46, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Surname articles not linked from dab pages #2

Hi everyone! There appear to be 21 surname articles that aren't linked from the corresponding disambiguation page. Would anyone be interested in helping out? Sometime all it takes is adding a link to the dab page, but occasionally there might turn out to be underlying issue that need resolving first. After taking care of an entry, it might be a good idea to add {{done}} to it in the list below.

Article → Dab page

1. Hamal (surname) → Hamal (disambiguation)  Done
2. Husson (surname) → Husson (disambiguation)  Done
3. Jessen (surname) → Jessen  Done
4. Kells (surname) → Kells  Done
5. Kida (surname) → Kida  Done
6. Kuran (surname) → Kuran  Done
7. Kurki (surname) → Kurki (disambiguation)  Done
8. Lal (surname) → Lal (disambiguation)  Lal as a surname already exists and is the primary topic. I tagged Lal (surname) for merge. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:19, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
9. Mahara (surname) → Mahara  Done, but questionable whether a separate surname page is needed
10. Mansilla (surname) → Mansilla  Done
11. Marmion (surname) → Marmion  Done
12. Matin (surname) → Matin  Done
13. Mian (surname) → Mian  Done
14. Monagas (surname) → Monagas (disambiguation)  Done
15. Montez (surname) → Montez  Done
16. Murthy (surname) → Murthy (disambiguation)  Done
17. Palazzolo (surname) → Palazzolo  Done
18. Peach (surname) → Peach (disambiguation)  Done
19. Ragam (surname) → Ragam (disambiguation)  Done
20. Rostami (surname) → Rostami  Not done Editors there reverted the changes and have asked for patience while they merge content.
21. Sheffield (surname) → Sheffield (disambiguation)  Done

Thanks in advance! – Uanfala (talk) 02:33, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Indonesian names

Hello

Is there anyone here with the knowledge and interest to address this query / request?

Thanks ^Bongo_matic 03:08, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Entry format at Meier

I've started a discussion related to the format of line items in the surname article Meier. I did not want to do a complete reformat without discussion. Regards --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 12:45, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Removing dab redirects to name pages

What is best practice with disambiguation redirects to name pages? Leave them or delete them?

For example: Giménez (disambiguation) redirects to Giménez. However, the latter is a surname page, not a disambiguation page. Is it best to delete the redirect, or just leave it? Coastside (talk) 16:02, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Delete them. -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:13, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I'd delete them because it perpetuates the misconception that name pages disambiguate an ambiguous term. A single surname or given name is not ambiguous—it's a shared partial name.—Bagumba (talk) 16:18, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

This was discussed, at length, here: Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation/Archive 48#RfC: INTDAB links to non-dab pages. Conclusion: "Consensus is (slightly) in favor of having redirects that end in "(disambiguation)" that target SIA or name lists in general, although single examples might exist where the redirect should be deleted". Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:48, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Redirects with the qualifier (disambiguation) have only one purpose: to differentiate between intentional and unintentional links to DAB pages. See WP:INTDABLINK.

WPs in most languages don't have a guideline like INTDABLINK. As a result, their bluelinks can be a total mess with no way of anyone ever noticing except by accident. I have edited articles in 29 languages other than English to repair links to DAB pages in those languages. A User:DPL bot report had alerted me to a problem in English WP, but the home language article contained the same error; once I had solved the problem, it was easy enough, and obviously the right thing to do, to fix it in both articles.

There's a clue in the qualifier (disambiguation): the redirect target should always be a DAB page. SIAs and name pages are not DAB pages. Such redirects to them should be deleted.

I recategorise 1 or 2 name pages wrongly categorised as DAB pages, and vice versa, every day.

I've given up WP:G6ing redirects from (disambiguation) pages to SIAs and name pages because I've had a couple of speedy requests declined on the grounds that they weren't doing any harm. I cannot be bothered to argue the toss with WP:ADMINs who don't know and understand the guidelines. I've reverted 5 or 6 admins, some very experienced, who had introduced INTDABLINK errors; I've sometimes had a smiley, perhaps shamefaced, in response. Narky Blert (talk) 07:06, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Xhosa clan names

This "article" is a mess. Most of the content seems to be disorganized lists of names, though there also seems to be some commentary/explanation in Xhosa interspersed among the "lists". The only English on the page is a brief intro. The article talk page appears to contain discussion in Xhosa too. Unless we can find a topic specialist willing to put in some work I'm afraid WP:TNT is going to be the only way to fix this. (I've crossposted this this to WT:WikiProject South Africa.) Thanks Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:45, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Kouch Dani RM

Editors involved in this project may wish to know there is currently a requested move discussion regarding the Kouch Dani article, relating to name order. If project members can provide any insight, please do. Nzd (talk) 11:17, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Ending titles with "(anthoponomy)"

I'm considering creating a redirect of Swindal to anthroponomy page Swindall. I see that {{R to anthroponymy page}} says "this template should only appear on a redirect page that has (anthroponymy) in its title." Is that a reasonable practice? We can't have a double redirect situation with Swindal->Swindal (anthroponomy)->Swindall. This seems like it was incorrectly modeled after {{R to disambiguation page}}, which has redirects end with (disambiguation). Looking at Category:Redirects to anthroponymy pages, perhaps those redirects should be renamed or deleted?—Bagumba (talk) 17:10, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

To answer your question, no that is not a reasonable practice. I had mentioned at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 May 9#Template:R to anthroponymy page that RCAT needs to be updated or deleted, since "(anthroponymy)" simply isn't a disambiguator that is used in this project, except for a one-off spree from the author of the RCAT. I was planning on nominating those redirects for deletion, but didn't once the TfD stalled. Perhaps it's time to do so. -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:18, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Deletion / revision sounds reasonable. I think lots of people would be scratching their heads when encountering "xxx (Anthroponymy)" in the main page space. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:45, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

• I see that Uanfala has updated the RCAT, which just leaves nominating the redirects for deletion. I have done so at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 February 1#Louis-Alphonse (anthroponymy). -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:28, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Pending results of this RfD, I think Template:R to anthroponymy page (and related Category:Redirects to anthroponymy pages) should ultimately be deleted also. The anthroponymy pages should just be linked directly, or are there valid use cases?—Bagumba (talk) 03:10, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
    • A TfD on the template has been opened at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_February_10#Template:R_to_anthroponymy_page—Bagumba (talk) 19:03, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
    • A CfD on the category is opened at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_February_18#Category:Redirects_to_anthroponymy_pages.—Bagumba (talk) 17:53, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

maiden name still surname?

If a married person takes a married name and makes their original surname the middle name, is it still considered a surname? This matters when considered including people with that name in a list of people with a surname. For example Elvira Leonardi Bouyeure is listed in Leonardi (surname) because Leonardi is in fact a surname, now used as a middle name. Is that correct? Lizzie Fletcher (née Pannill) now goes by Elizabeth Ann Pannill Fletcher and is listed under Pannill as someone with surname Pannill. Is that correct? Coastside (talk) 00:22, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

The dilemma is whether the goal of these pages is to reflect the WP:COMMONNAME usage, or to act as a search list of sorts for finding uses in birth names, middle names, legal names, etc. For example at Richard, there are quite a few entries for people who commonly go by Dick. Walter (name) has Walter Bruce Willis, better known as Bruce Willis. Gordon (given name) has Gordon Sumner aka Sting.—Bagumba (talk) 05:55, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Just as we would provide a redirect from their birth name, so we should include a surname list entry for the person. PamD 10:28, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

You are assuming that Leonardi has become a "middle name" after she married. Why?

You can analyse this name in at least two ways;

1. Given name: Elvira. Middle name: Leonardi. Surname: Bouyeure.
2. Given name: Elvira. Surname [after marriage]: Leonardi Bouyeure

You are assuming that No. 1 is correct, but I see no evidence why it should be. In an American context, No. 1 may be the obvious choice, but why would it be so for an Italian woman? --Hegvald (talk) 21:12, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

A maiden name is a former surname. Even if a subject no longer bears the name as a surname, it is still true that a name of the subject exists wherein the maiden name is the surname. bd2412 T 21:45, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

This makes sense. Where these lists lead with something like "Notable people with the surname include:" we could instead lead with "Notable people with (or formerly with) the surname include:", except that obviously that would be silly. I am guessing there is some latitude whether the entry is listed as simply "Elvira Leonardi Bouyeure" or as "Elvira Bouyeure (née Leonardi)" as I have seen done in some of these lists, to make it clear that it's a former surname. Coastside (talk) 22:05, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Once a surname, always a surname. Women often use their maiden names professionally and their married names for paperwork and personal lives. I assume that is what Ivanka Trump is doing; her legal name may be Ivanka Kushner?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:16, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Zucchetti (surname)

User:Iamzine13 left a note on my talkpage asking for RS and a notability tag at Zucchetti (surname). I am surprised because I received a barnstar from User:JalenFolf for my creation of similar pages yesterday. There is consensus to create pages about surnames as long as there are two notable individuals bearing the name, isn't there? Of course my hope is always to expand the stubs with RS about their origins and meanings, but could someone please show us the discussion that led to consensus for creation of such pages?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:50, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

I have reverted the notability tag on the grounds of this consensus as well as the fact that 2 additional persons were excluded from the page. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 21:56, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

User:JalenFolf: Thank you. Is there a specific webpage with the final consensus I can show them (and anyone else in future) please?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:58, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

As I do not know of such a consensus, I will courtesy ping both DrVogel and Xezbeth for additional opinion. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 22:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

It's at WP:APONOTE. -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:17, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:19, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

okay, I see now, thank you for the information this article. MrZINE (talk) 22:00, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

Fictional characters

Should fictional characters be listed on an anthroponymy page? Does the answer depend on whether a dab page exists or not? Note that in the essay WP:LONGDAB under the People section, it says: Fictional characters should never be listed together with real people—they should be in an Arts and entertainment section if one exists.—Bagumba (talk) 15:26, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, they can be listed on an anthroponymy pages that list people (and characters) sharing a name. These are WP:name pages, which are a kind of set index article and are normally classified as anthroponymy pages. Fictional characters should be separated from real people to avoid confusion. This means putting these entries in a separate section such as "Fictional characters". It doesn't mean they can't be included in set index articles at all. Furthermore, fictional characters that go by full names (as opposed to mononyms) will be partial title matches if listed on the dab page, in which case they should not be included there. For example, Sheldon Cooper is included on the Sheldon (name) page and not on the Sheldon disambiguation page. What can be tricky to handle is the fact that fictional characters often go by a single name rather than a full name. In these cases, as topics they are truly ambiguous and need to be differentiated. For example, Pluto (Disney) is appropriately listed on the dab page Pluto (disambiguation). This is not just the case for fictional characters. The same is true for mononymous persons and people that go by mononymous stage names. Coastside (talk) 16:12, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Mononym

For a person known by a single name like Ramya, but it is not part of their real name (Divya Spandana), should they have an entry at the related name page (Ramya (given name))?

Yes, or it least they can be. They are often handled by listing them in a section labeled something like "Mononym". This is often done on a page that is qualified by "(name)" instead of "(given name)" since those are broader topic pages. What's tricky is that truly mononymous people have ambiguous names that should be differentiated on a dab page, which is then somewhat redundant (but certainly not wrong). One way I've seen this handled when there are several such notable people is as done with Kai_(name). There the name page actually points back to the dab page for mononymous people. That's a bit like including entries for multiple people by linking to the dab page and including "multiple people" after the entry. But, well, eesh. Coastside (talk) 16:22, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Given name articles not linked from dab pages

Well, now there appear to be 13 given name articles that aren't linked from the corresponding disambiguation page. Would anyone be interested in helping out again? Sometime all it takes is adding a link to the dab page, but occasionally there might turn out to be underlying issue that need resolving first. After taking care of an entry, it might be a good idea to add {{done}} in the list below.

Article → Dab page

1. Ausma (given name)→Ausma  Done Leschnei (talk) 13:10, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
2. Carling (given name)→Carling (disambiguation)  Done Leschnei (talk) 13:21, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
3. Damone (given name)→Damone  Done Leschnei (talk) 13:28, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
4. Honor (given name)→Honor (disambiguation)  Done Leschnei (talk) 13:45, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
5. Jasmin (given name)→Jasmin  Done Leschnei (talk) 13:45, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
6. Kyro (given name)→Kyro  Not done Proposed for deletion. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kyro (given name). -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:58, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
7. Laima (given name)→Laima (disambiguation)  Done Leschnei (talk) 21:31, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
8. Lamia (given name)→Lamia (disambiguation)
9. Nea (given name)→NEA  Done PamD 17:58, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
10. Omi (given name)→Omi (disambiguation)  Done PamD 17:58, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
11. Ramya (given name)→Ramya (disambiguation)  Done—Bagumba (talk) 15:52, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
12. Ron (given name)→Ron  Done Leschnei (talk) 01:00, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
13. Talat (given name)→Talat Partially implemented Moved "see also" of Telat to "see also" Talat (given name). Don't know enought about the name origin if it should remain a "see also", be integrated, or should Telat be changed to redirect directly to Telat Üzüm?—Bagumba (talk) 13:35, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks in advance! – Uanfala (talk) 23:26, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Khouri

There's been some discussion about which names should be listed at Khouri. There are redirects Khoury and El Khoury to that list, which leads me to be believe that only those additional names should be listed there. Others think that a further set of more than 30 derivative names should be listed, too. This strike me as odd because a few of them have their own lists. The two most recent versions demonstrating the difference of opinion are strict and extended. I would appreciate some advice. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:24, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Please move Whisenton (surname) to Whisenton

Hello. I created Whisenton (surname) too fast. Could you please move it to Whisenton?Zigzig20s (talk) 04:45, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: You can copy your changes directtly to Whisenton, and then request a WP:G7 speedy delete on Whisenton (surname). That way, we dont need to keep a redirect at Whisenton (surname) or lose history at Whisenton. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 10:53, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, I did that.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:56, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

User:Tavix added a redirect. I guess this makes more sense.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:54, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Uilliams Bomfim Souza

Is Bomfim a surname or middle name here please? If it's a surname, we could create Bomfim as there is also Thiago Bomfim.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:58, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

Silvino/Silvinus

There are four Silvinos on the list for Silvanus (name). Shouldn't they be moved to Silvino (given name) please? I believe there are also matches for Silvino (surname).Zigzig20s (talk) 19:55, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

• It would be OK to split the article into two main sections - surname and given name. There's not an absolute need to split to two articles. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:59, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Golmayo (surname)

I was BOLD with Golmayo (surname) because Latin Americans have two surnames, don't they?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:40, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

• Spanish naming customs, has info on this. Interesting that Golmayo is not included in a 1972 US Census manual on "spanish surnames", used for ethnic coding; https://archive.org/details/ERIC_ED107423/ . --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:57, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:05, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

Talk:Breedlove

Should the text on this talkpage be removed? It looks like nonsense to me.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:48, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Skolmen

Just letting you know I've re-created Skolmen in good faith.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:54, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!

A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.

– Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Unreferenced origin

An IP address added this origin without any sources. I wonder if it should be trimmed? The Dictionary of American Family Names gives "English (Cornwall); unexplained." as origin.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:13, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

I am changing it to the referenced content above.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:31, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Mihir

Mihir is an Indian given name, but the page is currently under protection. Could someone please free it?Zigzig20s (talk) 14:34, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, User:Xezbeth. I will ping you next time.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:21, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

Melucci

Hello. Could someone else please look at this? Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 02:03, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: I undid the last edit that added a red-link for a non-existent article. I checked to see whether the article had ever existed before removing. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 03:14, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I hope they don't do it again...Zigzig20s (talk) 03:39, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

User:Ceyockey: They did, and added a note on the talkpage...Zigzig20s (talk) 15:30, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

User:Ceyockey: It goes on and on and on...Zigzig20s (talk) 00:55, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Alice Nutter

Can an established editor please help me here? I was looking for information about Alice Nutter, a woman accused of witchcraft in the 17th century. I looked first at the page Nutter (surname) and found she was listed there, but with no link to an article about her. I later found there is an article about her called Alice Nutter (witch), so I tried to add a link from Nutter (surname) to this page, but an editor undid my edit, saying it was not constructive, because that person wasn't really a witch. I can see that, but given that the article about her is called Alice Nutter (witch), it would seem helpful to have it linked from the disambiguation page. Perhaps the article should be renamed to "Alice Nutter (alleged witch)" or something else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.1.111 (talk) 19:52, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

I have moved the article as suggested to the more neutrally disambiguated title suggested, Alice Nutter (alleged witch). I have updated Nutter (surname) accordingly and added a source to the index, and I left User:TheDoDahMan a note. Sam Sailor 00:03, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. That seems a good outcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.1.111 (talk) 07:45, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

I agree. I hope there are no bad feelings because of the misunderstanding.Again, my apologies to 94.197.1.111 (whoever you are). And a big thank you to Sam Sailor for fixing the issue!TheDoDahMan (talk) 21:17, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

No bad feelings - we all make mistakes! It was a little alarming though to be accused of vandalism when I was only trying to help make it easier to find a particular page. Perhaps the people behind Wikipedia could come up with a slightly friendlier way of helping inexperienced editors who aren't sure how they are supposed to do things. There could be a danger of frightening off people who might be able to contribute in useful ways. Thanks and best wishes to both of you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.1.111 (talk) 09:47, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Hill (surname)

Excuse me if this is noted somewhere, but a comment on using the above list. I am looking for a person named Hill whose initials are given in a citation, this requires checking every disambiguation page for the multiple people. Is there an advantage to splitting out these pages that outweighs the inconvenience? cygnis insignis 17:03, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

I got lucky with John Hill via the redirect John Hill (disambiguation) for John Edwards Hill, and it helped that I knew I had visited the page before, all I had was J. E. Hill which I am boldly creating as a redirect for when I next forget his full name. cygnis insignis 17:12, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

@Cygnis insignis:From a readers perspective, it's a negative to have to navigate to John Hill (disambiguation). From an editor's point of view, it's a shortcut to duplicating its contents (and worrying about them becoming out of sync), but perhaps transclusion is an alternative.—Bagumba (talk) 17:22, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Cheers for the reply, and for understanding what I was getting at. :-) I suppose that transclusion might resolve it, but there is usually a cost/benefit needed in my experience in using of it. In the case of academics and so on, an abbreviation is common and the full name is sort of incidental, it is the former that I remember. With this very popular name I had "J" as the initial, and noted that all the John (jon, jonnie, johann and anglicised variations) and James (Jim, et al) creates further splitting and maybe forking if the article is at at one of the variations of an individuals name (which includes articles that may have omitted the E. of his middle name). cygnis insignis 17:57, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Mohammaed or Mohammed

Mohammad and Mohammed are very common Given names and Surnames by believers in Islam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dthomsen8 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Freeny, Freeney

I've just created Freeny, but User:AaronWikia had already mentioned them in Freeney. Shouldn't Freeney be turned into a redirect towards Dwight Freeney instead?Zigzig20s (talk) 01:06, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Family name hatnotes

Hi everyone! I posted at the village pump about this a few months ago, but it didn't really go anywhere and I think this is a much better forum, so I'm going to copy the conversation from there in the hope that you all will be able to move it forward:

Whenever I come across an article for a Korean/Chinese/Japanese person, it almost always begins with Template:Korean name, Template:Chinese name, or Template:Japanese name (for example, see Xi Jinping). While the information is useful, I wonder whether it's really necessary to provide it in the form of a hatnote. For one thing, it's not really a disambiguation or something else that'd normally be presented as a hatnote. More importantly, as the first thing the reader encounters after the article title, it occupies very valuable space that I think might be better used by the article itself (in other words, it adds clutter). Do you all agree? And if so, how do you think this information should be conveyed if not as a hatnote? - Sdkb (talk) 04:08, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

@Sdkb: I've always wondered about this as well. According to WP:HAT, the purpose of all hatnotes is "to help readers locate a different article if the one they are at is not the one they're looking for", and I wonder if these meet the criteria. For sure, hatnotes like this explain the naming convention, ie. why the article is located at Xi Jinping instead of Jinping Xi, but that information doesn't pertain to a different article they might be looking for.

I note that {{Correct title}} similarly explains a naming convention but does not directly assist in finding an article about a different topic. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 10:20, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Sdkb, there's one for Indian patronymics, too, like at Asha Rangappa that I believe is necessary to simply protect the article from overzealous editors who want to change all the references to 'Asha' to 'Rangappa', but even still I've reverted good-faith edits occasionally. I finally started putting hidden comments into the beginning of paragraphs. --valereee (talk) 10:44, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, hidden edits seem like the way to go there, since mainspace articles should be built for readers, not editors. Sdkb (talk) 15:45, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

@Valereee: wouldn't an edit notice for Indian names be the ideal solution? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 10:56, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Finnusertop, oh, that's a great idea! I'll go put in a request, thanks! --valereee (talk) 11:00, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Sure, Valereee, but I also meant in general: if none of these hatnotes are there to disambiguate between articles but to inform editors about style conventions, shouldn't they be edit notices instead? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 11:23, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Finnusertop, I think Sdkb makes a good point about 'valuable real estate' (which made me smile). You could also argue that explaining in a hatnote about 'Rangappa' being a patronymic rather than a surname tries to remove any distraction caused for readers who don't know that and are jarred by the constant use of her first name. I was thinking maybe try it and see whether it solves problems or creates them? --valereee (talk) 11:39, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Looking around, this seems to be an issue with naming templates generally, not just for East Asian names. Fixing it would be quite a major modification, and although I think there's a reasonable chance there'd be consensus for a change, I'm not sure where to go to gather enough input to build that sort of consensus. - Sdkb (talk) 21:33, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

- Sdkb (talk) 16:02, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

I can think of at least two practical uses. As the MOS:SURNAME convention is to generally refer to people by their surname, it can be useful to know when a name is not listed under the Western convention of the surname being listed last e.g. Yao Ming. Then there are country-specific cases at MOS:GIVENNAME, where the article convention will be to mention people by their given name. If this is a community accepted practice, it'd be good to mention it at WP:HATNOTE or a another grouping (perhaps new) at MOS:LAYOUT.—Bagumba (talk) 17:32, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Munguía v. Munguia

Munguia looks like an anglicized version of Munguía. Should we create two separate articles, or could they be listed in the same article please?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:49, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

• It is reasonable to deal with both on the same page, but don't assert the anglicization relationship without a source. Combining them on the same page is convenient because people will typically not search with the diacritical form, nor will all sources display the diacritical. The asserted relationship in absence of a source would be 'similar spelling', in my opinion. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:30, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Will this raise some issues with Wikidata though?Zigzig20s (talk) 02:31, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

• Not sure - I've not paid much attention to how Wikidata gets info from Wikipedia. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:12, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

I created Munguia.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:16, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Notification of a merge discussion

There is a merge discussion in progress at Talk:Steve#Merging Steve (disambiguation) with this page which may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Narky Blert (talk) 13:38, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

where can i find the surname indjic' from yugoslavia?2601:185:C100:1A43:BC39:F47A:FB70:9C35 (talk) 18:31, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

2601:185:C100:1A43:BC39:F47A:FB70:9C35 (talk) 18:31, 15 August 2019 (UTC)i have been trying to locate what part of yugoslavia did my grandparents come from in 1903, surname is indjic' or indich

The surname Инђић (Indich, Indjic, etc.) seems to be primarily Serbian. See e.g. Aleksandar Inđić, Eugen Indjic and sh:Trivo Inđić (he was from Bosnia and Hercegovina, but was perhaps a Bosnian Serb). Narky Blert (talk) 07:46, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Co-location of alternate spellings

I could use some advice at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disambiguation#co-location_of_alternate_spellings.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:53, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Blogg

Hello. I notice that you created Blogg (surname) while the undisambiguated Blogg is a redirect to Henry Blogg. Was this a mistake, or do you consider Henry to be the primary topic for the name? Geolodus (talk) 11:06, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

User:Geolodus: I've moved your comment here as others may want to opine. Henry Blogg was created first, and it is quite a long article. However, we could move Blogg (surname) to Blogg.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:43, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

None of these people is generally known by their surname alone. The article on Frances Blogg is about the same size as the one on Henry Blogg. I see no WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. The surname page should be at the basename Blogg. Narky Blert (talk) 07:56, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Feel free to move it if you want.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:59, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

A similar thing has now happened with Cloninger (surname) and Cloninger. Geolodus (talk) 08:04, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

• Yes, while someone is the only holder of a surname (with no other uses of the word), a redirect is appropriate. When the name is not unique, create a surname page at the base name unless the nameholder is in the same league as Shakespeare for primariness. PamD 08:41, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Well in this case, C. Robert Cloninger is much longer while Tony Cloninger is relatively short. Shouldn't C. Robert Cloninger be a target article?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:21, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Length of article is neither here nor there. Unless there is a very strong case for one name-holder to be something like the "primary topic", the surname page should be at the base name. PamD 09:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

I've made move requests to move both Blogg (surname) and Cloninger (surname) to their base names - and found another Cloninger to add while doing so. PamD 10:08, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:36, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Minimum standards

For name, given name, surname, and nickname articles, what is the minimum number of entries to justify a page. I.e., I am working on filing out {{Nicholas}} and am wondering if certain articles are ripe for creation. Niky can only be supported by two (Niky Kamran and Niky Wardley) names or nicknames of notable subjects. For dab pages, there is support for WP:TWODABS or WP:NOPRIMARY in some situations. I am wondering if for name articles I should create a page with only two subjects? Additionally, to the best of my knowledge Nicholai only has one subject by that spelling on wikipedia and she actually goes by the nickname Nicky Hilton. Could an article exist listing her and the fictional characters Nicholaï Hel, protagonist from Trevanian's 1979 novel Shibumi and its prequel, Don Winslow's 2011 novel Satori as well as Nicholai Ginovaef, a minor/supporting character from Resident Evil: Apocalypse?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:24, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

• One nameholder: redirect. Two or more: create a name page unless one of them is of Shakespeare-like predominance in which case redirect to them and hatnote to the other(s) or to name page. PamD 19:32, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Mattli

Should we move Mattli and create a disambiguation page there for this?Zigzig20s (talk) 14:35, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Could just add a hatnote to point to a new anthtroponymy page.—Bagumba (talk) 16:44, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: I'm not sure what you're pointing to, but Mattli looks like it should stay as it is. A name article as Bagumba suggests might be called Mattli (surname) with a hatnote from the primary topic. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 17:27, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

The fashion designer needs to be listed on the surname page, and the surname page needs to be linked from his page. That's assuming we're happy with (a) him being most commonly known by surname alone, ie it's the right title, and (b) him being primary topic for the surname. Two different decisions. Meanwhile I'll add linkages. PamD 22:38, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Advice on relationship

I have added more than a dozen new articles to {{Nicholas}} that I am fairly certain are variations. I am not sure if Nikil or Nikitas (disambiguation) are etymologically related.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:03, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

Talk:Antonio advice

Feel free to comment on Talk:Antonio#Mentions?.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:43, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

Articles in need of Etymology/Derivation detail

I am not really a member of this project, but of late, I have begun creating name article. My artcles are really just lists of articles with the name. My articles need Etymological detail and derivation detail. Are there ways to tag or cat articles for those needs?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:50, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

I assess mine as stub class.—Bagumba (talk) 10:50, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

• If you use the parameter "class=List" in a WikiProject banner on the talk page, this results in the addition of a subtitle to the article reading "A set index article from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". I'd recommend this for name articles where the only content is a list of people rather then using a stub template. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 12:20, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • @Ceyockey: In theory, WP:APOLIST suggests that a standalone list is appropriate if the main name article is too large. In most cases, there really isnt much (or frankly anything) written about individual names, so most of these "lists" are actually stubs asking to be expanded with etymology content. See WP:APOSTUB.—Bagumba (talk) 15:04, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
    • @Bagumba: I don't think it is an either/or black-and-white. It's two ways of looking at them: as proto-articles or as de facto lists. One way of looking at it speaks to potential, while the other speaks to current status. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:01, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

      Conincidentally—just looking at Eames which has a stub template and has been denoted a set index article. Maybe that's a way forward? Use both indicators until the article has been realized, then remove the stub and re-class the article? --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:03, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

      I don't think it is an either/or black-and-white I guess I was looking at it from the WikiProject assessment perspective, where it can be marked as a list or a stub, but not both. On the page itself, it looks like using {{surname-stub}} and {{given-name-stub}} is the way to go.—Bagumba (talk) 04:32, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

      +1 --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:52, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

New Template

I have created {{Anthony}} only two subjects on the template are redirects to merged pages. Anthonius redirects to Antonius and Tonja (name) redirects to Tonya (given name). Is it O.K. to split out these subjects from the redirect target?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:25, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

House of Names - Reliable source?

Reliable sources: Is the site https://www.houseofnames.com/ considered to be a reliable source for name information? --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 03:12, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Scelsi

Hello. What about this please? He's not exactly Shakespeare.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:41, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

The IP has a point about the broken links - which should have been sorted out by Zigzig20s in March 2019 when they overwrote a redirect which had been there since 2004. Googling finds many more ghits for the composer than the others, but isn't conclusive. For now, I've added a hatnote to Giacinto Scelsi, so that readers can find the other nameholders. PamD 18:24, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

How is it a broken link if the name comes up in the disambiguation page please? And we have lost that page now. Shall we wait until we have retrieved the origin/meaning of the surname?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:29, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I see what you mean: "Incoming links are all for the composer." In these situations, what do we do please? I feel what you've done is not ideal because we have lost the disambiguation page and our fellow editors are less likely to look for its origin.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:40, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

I think that if you turn a redirect into a surname page, it's up to you to fix those incoming links which were previously going to the composer via the redirect, and point them to the composer's page exactly. Just creating a surname page where there was previously a redirect means that everyone following those links, which have worked for 15 years, now gets to a surname page instead. That's a worse deal for all those readers. On the other hand, readers searching for "Scelsi" who wanted the model, politician, or transport hub weren't getting any help from the long-standing redirect. At least at the moment they get a link to where they want to go. If the composer is not the "primary name-holder" (to invent a phrase), then by all means create a name page but sort out those incoming links which were previously direct links and which now lead to the surname page. I guess it all shows that it's not a good idea to use surname-to-full-name redirects for links in pages, even if they make a nice shortcut for lazy editors! PamD 18:49, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. I always wait until I can find at least two surname-holders.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:56, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

I've just fixed the redirect link from John Bruce Wallace (and another, and queried an ambiguous name in same sentence!). PamD 18:59, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 19:02, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Dictionary of American Family Names

Is there anyone with access to the Dictionary of American Family Names able to take care of adding sources for the set indices on Special:ShortPages? I know that the entries for each of the surnames are in the dictionary, but with the lack of preview pages from Google Books, it's near impossible to get certain surnames that would be located on a page not available (in some cases; I can still make out some of the definitions just by searching the surname in the book.) Ancestry.com appears to also have the definitions listed on their learn/facts search feature, which also uses the dictionary as the source, but not all surnames are listed. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 06:18, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

I don't think that adding sources for those pages is necessary. Most just state things that you could figure out without any external sources or the set indices even existing. Geolodus (talk) 14:02, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Thrales

Shouldn't this redirect be deleted?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:56, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

If you'd like to give a reason, feel free to list it at WP:RFD. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:58, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Maybe a speedy deletion? We now have Thrale. I don't think there is anyone bearing the surname Thrales.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:38, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

That's not a criterion for speedy deletion. WP:RFD would have to be the route to go if you want it deleted. -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:43, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Well, it must have been created in error. The redirect should have been for Thrale.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:54, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

But there is no evidence the redirect was created in error (eg: a subsequent edit or talk page note saying such). "Thrales" is actually used in the target as a plural, so it's currently functioning as an {{R from plural}} for Thrale (ie: the Thrale family). Without an edit summary explaining why it was created, we can only guess, but that would be mine. -- Tavix ^(talk) 23:11, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

You're right: "The Thrales' eldest daughter, Hester, became a viscountess.". Let's just keep it then.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:16, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Walcher

Should I create Walcher (surname) for the others, or should we write over the redirect?Zigzig20s (talk) 07:46, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

If you overwrite the redirect, be sure to fix the incoming links to the name. Thanks. PamD 17:14, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

Brannick (surname)

Shouldn't Brannick (surname) be moved to Brannick?Zigzig20s (talk) 12:06, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

 Done Yes it should, so I did. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:19, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Including surnames

I am still working pretty hard on {{Anthony}}. I am considering adding a section at the bottom for related surnames (those mentioned at Template_talk:Anthony#Exclusion_notes). Do people have opinions about doing this?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:26, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

• We have quite a few surname templates, such as {{wolf-surname}} or {{smith-surname}}. They are bottom navboxes and also they group by language families. If you convert your vertical template into the similar form, then it will be easy to join names and surnames. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:46, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I am not a etymology guy. I don't know which name come from which family of languages. I was just asking if I could slap the list that I mention above in a separate section at the bottom on the existing template. I am not going to begin to assign language families to any list of names.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:40, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

    You don't have to sort given names. Just make it horizontal. If you add surnames to the bottom of your list, the list will become freakingly long. Staszek Lem (talk) 16:27, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

    • I originally saw this type of template at {{Nicholas}}, where I expanded the content and widened the presentation. I personally prefer the sidebar to the navbox at the bottom, mainly because many of the articles are stubbish and the sidebar boosts the immediately visible amount of encyclopedic contet. The template is still skinnier than an infobox. So I could widen it a tad to make it take fewer rows.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:52, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

• By the way if you want to include Anfernee into your navbox, the article Anfernee must contain a statement with a ref to a reliable source confirming that this is indeed a variant of Anthony. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:46, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Much has been made of the connection between Anfernee and Anthony. It sounds like there is not much agreement. [https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/10/sports-legend-revealed-was-penny-hardaway-was-named-anfernee-by-mistake.html this article suggest his mom did not accidentally name him with the wrong spelling, but rather copied the name from another. We don't know what was the origin of the source use of the name.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:40, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

    Therefore I am removing it from your template. You should have done this yoursef. Staszek Lem (talk) 16:27, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Postell

Shouldn't all the red links be removed?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:13, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: Please see MOS:DABRED. In the cases of surnames, I keep relink only in case there is high probability that the bio may be written. I use two rules of thumb (a) the redlink article is wikilinked from several articles or (b) a major non-english wikipedia has an article. However please note that notability criteria in nonenglish wikipedias may be lax. For example smaller wikipedias, such as lt:WP, may have articles for nearly all county-level politicians and high school professors. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:48, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

It this particular case I would not hesitate to delete all redlinks, because Wikipedia is not a genealogy project, and all these freemasons are hardly notable. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:48, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Delete them. Per guideline WP:CSC (and also reflected at WP:APORL): "Creation guide" lists—lists devoted to a large number of redlinked (unwritten) articles, for the purpose of keeping track of which articles still need to be written—don't belong in the main namespace. Write these in your userspace, or in a Wikiproject's space, or list the missing articles at Wikipedia:Requested articles. Moreover, months have passed since the redlinks were added.—Bagumba (talk) 00:33, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

I went and deleted the red links.—Bagumba (talk) 09:49, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:59, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Given names vs. nicknames

For the name Rip, I ran across Rip (given name) and Rip (nickname). Should people be separated depending on whether their name was given at birth or not? As a counter example, Chris (given name) combines everyone under "People with the given name" regardless of whether their birth name is Chris, Christine, Christopher, etc.—Bagumba (talk) 09:48, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

It might be a good idea to merge Rip (surname), Rip (nickname) and Rip (given name), since none of them have any substantive information about the name. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:24, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud: If the nickname and given names were merged, should they be commingled, or be in separate sections?—Bagumba (talk) 10:51, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

@Bagumba: there are examples at Apple (name) and Hack (name). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:30, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

And Chris (given name) combines them. So I'm wondering if there is a rationale to drive a standard.—Bagumba (talk) 12:34, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Six Korean name articles created today

Hi! The discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Six Korean name articles created today may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Please feel free to provide input at the link provided. SITH (talk) 18:20, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Proposal to merge Izard and Izzard

Proposed at Talk:Izzard. Cheers! bd2412 T 20:30, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Solename

Template:Solename has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 15:46, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Diacratic alphabetization

Are there rules for alphabetization of diacratics? E.g., how would one alphabetize Tona, Tóna, Toňa and Toña?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger: Does WP:Alphabetical order#Language-specific conventions help? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:35, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Shhhnotsoloud, Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:09, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Template:solename

What is the status of {{solename}}? It appears to be oddly lacking in documentation and rarely used. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 21:17, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

This template heads up lists of persons known solely by a given name or surname, i.e. entries that are validly included in disambiguation pages in accordance with MOS:DABNAME. The archetypal examples are Elvis and Shakespeare.

The point of the template is (i) to demonstrate that the entries are correctly included on the disambiguation page, and (ii) to indicate implicitly that other persons who are not so known should not be added to the list on the dab page (but perhaps on the name page, unless it is a very common name).

I agree about documentation, and have added the above info on the template page. – Fayenatic London 21:41, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for writing the doc up. I created the template, and since you perfectly understood my intentions, this means the template is of clear utility. I did intend to use it widely, because I got sick of lists of people with the first name bob. (Un)fortunately in about month I was booted out of wikipedia for two years, which cured me of wikipediholism for good. Good luck. - Altenmann >talk 08:14, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Is the use of the template the subject of any consensus? Is its use mandated or recommended by any policy or guidance? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:00, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Does it have to? - Altenmann >talk 08:03, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

What about nicknames: Crazylegs, Fatso? Staszek Lem (talk) 19:02, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

On those two pages, the people are all known by the nickname alone, except perhaps for Crazy Legs Conti where this is unclear. The others are therefore valid entries on the disambiguation pages. There is no need to split these pages to e.g. Fatso (nickname), nor would that be desirable. As for showing {{solename}} on such lists, I don't think that's necessary, except for any cases where a MOS:DABNAME split does become appropriate. – Fayenatic London 14:33, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Of course. I didn't think clearly. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:25, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Guertin

Guertin was deleted in 2006. Should we recreate it please?Zigzig20s (talk) 15:15, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Go ahead, the AfD from 2006 is not relevant any more. – Uanfala (talk) 15:42, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Done. PamD 16:01, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:33, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Willden

There is only one person with the surname (Gordon Willden), but three houses named for people with the surname: John Willden House, Feargus O'Connor Willden House, and Elliot Willden House. Would it make sense to create a surname article?Zigzig20s (talk) 16:36, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: Done, including another entry. Improvements welcome! Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:28, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Merging spelling variation

Please join the discussion at Talk:Antoniadis#merging_Antoniades_into_Antoniadis.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:15, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Gaddy (surname)

Shouldn't Gaddy (surname) be moved to Gaddy?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:03, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Moved per WP:PRECISION. No reason to disambiguate.—Bagumba (talk) 02:05, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Brechbühl and Brechbuhl

Would it be acceptable to create Brechbühl for Urs Brechbühl and Ulrich Brechbuhl please? The latter was born in Switzerland his name may have been americanized?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:28, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Absolutely, and you may throw Brechbuehl in, if you find one. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:57, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I've created Brechbühl. Feel free to expand it if you can find an RS for its origin/meaning. Thanks!Zigzig20s (talk) 00:18, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Gloria

Based on the formatting I've seen in other given name articles, I added an infobox, origin, and pronunciation information to Gloria (given name) with this edit. I'm at least 38% sure I didn't do it the correct-right-official way, so if someone here could double check my work, that would be great. tsilb (talk) 20:29, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Edit to add: I'm not part of your project. I edit stuff that's of interest to many projects, and I can't be bothered to check every project's procedures and such along the way. I was passing through and noticed the page needed shoring up, that's all. I'm bringing this up now to explain to you why I did that edit, and to get a second set of eyes on it. WP:BB, WP:BRD tsilb (talk) 20:32, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

I would advise checking the IPA. It has no stress or long vowel marks and contains ō, which is not an IPA symbol. Glades12 (talk) 21:30, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Assar and Asser

I recently discovered the given name and surname Assar, which is also spelled Asser. However, before creating it, I noticed that there is already an article about the name Asser. What should be done here? Glades12 (talk) 15:36, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

@Glades12: I think there are 3 choices: (1) the 2 articles coexist and reference each other; (2) Asser is moved to Assar and expanded; (3) Assar is created as a redirect and Asser is expanded. I think (3) is preferable because not all the Assars are of Swedish origin. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:04, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

I could see having separate name pages if there is substantial text about the names themselves. For lists, however, it's not straightforward unless you know each person's genealogy. For example, consider List of people with the Korean family name Lee and Lee (English name). With the number of people having mixed-race parents only increasing in Western culture, it would be hard or presumptuous to know which list to place a person under.—Bagumba (talk) 13:29, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

References

Proposed changes at Template:Burmese name

Please see Template talk:Burmese name for my proposed changes to the template. Thanks! WhisperToMe (talk) 12:35, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Anthroponymy Barnstar

Introducing the Template:The Anthroponymy Barnstar Jerm (talk) 02:10, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Could someone add this to "Talkpage Templates" @Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Resources. Or is it "Userpage Templates"? I don't know which one. That would be much appreciated though. Jerm (talk) 15:39, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

I figured it out, I added the barnstar under "Talkpage Templates" Jerm (talk) 15:52, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

RFC: Shabazz - moving list of names from dab page to name page

I'd like to request comment about moving a list of names from the Shabazz disambiguation page to the name page. Discussion is here. I moved the list of names and made some other improvements and these were wholesale reverted. Before I re-revert, I'd like some additional feedback. Thank you. The reverting user hasn't responded. Coastside (talk) 16:09, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

For convenience, the links to the pages are Shabazz (disambiguation) and Shabazz (name). Glades12 (talk) 17:27, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Helmy

Hi sorry this is my first time so I don't know what to do. The last item on the page for the name "Helmy" seems like someone just added it to be silly? 72.92.235.170 (talk) 11:54, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Removed, but it's okay to be bold and delete vandalism yourself. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 12:27, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

References

Nelken

Hello. Is it possible to unprotect Nelken and create a list for David Nelken, Hank Nelken, and Margarita Nelken please?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:24, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: Wrong venue. Must use WP:RFUP. I posted the request there. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:54, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: Don't forget Shane Nelken. PamD 23:14, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

It appears the admins are too busy, so I created Nelken (surname) (such one must exist anyway). Once the page becomes unprotected, you may move Nelken (surname)->Nelken. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:00, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

Makridis

Makridis has Vasilios Makridis (a full-fledged article) and Alexandros Makridis (a redirect). Is that sufficient to create a page for the surname, or would we need two full-fledged articles please?Zigzig20s (talk) 11:33, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: If I a, not mistaken, it is the same surname as that covered at Macrides? (There seem to be a few different Latin transcriptions which all have the same Greek spelling). So I think Makridis should redirect there as well (as Makrides does), and then you can list both Vasilios Makridis and Alexandros Makridis there. Cheers, 59.149.124.29 (talk) 14:01, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Seconded. The Greek surname is Μακρίδης and the letter η may be pronounced in ways close either to "e" or to "i", and transcribed accordingly. So in fact there are 4 transcription variants of Μακρίδης : Makrides/Macrides/Makridis/Macridis. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:19, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

"of Sidon"

Various people "of Sidon" are listed in Sidon (surname). They really shouldn't be there, but they should be listed somewhere, no? Is there (or should there be) a guideline for this sort of thing? Clarityfiend (talk) 20:29, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Good question. Many other cases: Lycurgus of Thrace/Rhesus of Thrace; Pythagoras of Samos/Aristarchus of Samos/Theodorus of Samos, etc. IMO we do not need to make "... of ..." lists. Or at least we have to give it a good thought. For example, we have "numbered" royalties/nobilities, such as Władysław III of Poland/Stanislaus II of Poland . Do we need "of Poland" dab page? Staszek Lem (talk) 19:32, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

However, as I see now, "location by-names" are just a case of other types of bynames . And we have the Great = List of people known as "the Great" . So why not have

List of people known as "of Sidon"? Staszek Lem (talk) 20:59, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Scalzo (surname)

Shouldn't Scalzo (surname) be moved to Scalzo?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:40, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

Rydstrom, Rydström, Rydstrøm

Should we just create one article about Rydstrom (Gary Rydstrom), Rydström (Henrik Rydström, Nils Rydström, Rudolf Rydström), Rydstrøm (Arthur Rydstrøm)?Zigzig20s (talk) 04:11, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes. Especially keeping in mind that in English text foreign diacritics are often omitted, especially in the (not so far) past. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:18, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

Sickel and Sickels

Shouldn't we demerge Sickels from Sickel?Zigzig20s (talk) 02:56, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes, especially bearing in mind there are much more "Sickelses" in wikipedia than in the current list, (and cross-include in "see also" section). Staszek Lem (talk) 20:20, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

NOT resolved. Once you are working on these page, you have to search wikipedia and update the lists. Staszek Lem (talk) 17:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of Kushal (Hindi word) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kushal (Hindi word) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kushal (Hindi word) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Cnilep (talk) 03:19, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Nicknames

It seems that we have articles like Butch (nickname), and many other pages in Category:Lists of people by nickname, that are articles on names that are specifically nicknames. We should add some guidance on this at WP:APOS, as well as accounting for articles like Jack (given name), where the name can be both a nickname and a given name.—Bagumba (talk) 09:24, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Surnames by Bernard Homer Dixon

Is Surnames by Bernard Homer Dixon a reliable source please? It's on the Internet Archive, potentially a useful source. The author was a diplomat who authored many books, but I can't find his obituary on Newspapers.com.Zigzig20s (talk) 04:33, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

It is described as "the first surname dictionary in English" [2]. Published in 1850s, I am pretty sure it may have become obsolete in some parts. Therefore I would suggest to use due diligence and find modern sources before using it as a reference. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:13, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Discussion on whether to change the way we note surname ordering for Chinese names (but potentially applicable elsewhere, too)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/China_and_Chinese-related_articles#Hatnote_for_Chinese_names_of_people. Sdkb (talk) 20:41, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Lofquist

Hello. I've created Lofquist, but just seen that we already have Løfqvist. Should Lofquist be a redirect?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:37, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

User:Xenxax: Pinging you as you created Løfqvist.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:47, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

IMO the articles must be merged, because it is basically the same surname and the lists are short. We do occasionally keep different spellings separate, if the lists are long, such as Smyth vs. Smith. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:44, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

OK I have created a redirect.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:38, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Dornelles

Is Dornelles a surname in Getúlio Dornelles Vargas please? I think it is but I just want a confirmation before I create the article (there is also Francisco Dornelles).Zigzig20s (talk) 17:26, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

In this case it is definitely a surname (of his mother), but you have to ask these kinds of "personal" questions in the talk pages of the corresponding articles. Staszek Lem (talk) 17:38, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:09, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Cotti

Cotti needs to be unlocked before we can create a page with Aleksandra Cotti and Flavio Cotti.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:37, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

You have to request unprotection, see instructions in WP:RFPU. Staszek Lem (talk)

Surname pages

Here is a list of the articles about various places. For each of those names, there is at least one article about a person having the same name (most of them are surnames and in some very few cases they are given names).

In most cases there is a need for a name page or a disambiguation page. In other (few) cases it is only needed to add a hatnote because the surname page is already created. And in very few cases the hatnote should be re-written using regular hatnote templates, like for example at Garforth. Maybe there are people interested in creating surname pages. The list was aslo posted here a few days ago. —  Ark25  (talk) 00:06, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

WT:D has suggestions as to what pages and links we might create in each case. Input from this Wikiproject would still be welcome, especially as to whether we should create the pages or continue to rely on WP search for navigation. Certes (talk) 12:34, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

@Certes: Maybe all of those pages need a hatnote. But I'm not sure about the cases where there are just a few people with the surname. Say for example Arconada - should the hatnote contain an {{intitle|Arconada}} ? It's not a bad idea to let the readers know that there are people with the surname.

An argument for creating name pages instead of not creating them is that such pages can contain links to related names and information about the origin of the word. For example the page Valero shows the origin of the name - Valerius (name), while this page contains a sizable list of related names. The same for Laur (surname) and Laurentius —  Ark25  (talk) 19:50, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Surname pages - from redirects

Here is a list of redirects. For each one of them, a surname page can be created or at least a hatnote can be placed in the article where they redirect (like for example for Balac and Bawling, where there is only one person with that surname). Maybe there are people who enjoy creating surname pages. —  Ark25  (talk) 23:23, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Manual of style for name lists

Is there any Manual of Style for name lists? I was told that name lists — like for example Valen (surname) — are not disambiguation pages so maybe they have a different manual of style than disambiguation pages?

Is it allowed to use templates like {{Infobox given name}} into name lists and into disambiguation pages with given-name-holder lists? Say for example at Valentini or Valentinian —  Ark25  (talk) 03:13, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

@Ark25: The standard for namelists is at WP:APO/S. As for dab pages, refer to MOS:DABNAME. I would think an infobox there would clutter the dab page, but you can start a discussion there if you wish to propose it.—Bagumba (talk) 00:54, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

McLaren

The surname MacLaren (surname) is listed as being both of Scottish and Northern Irish origin. This is misleading as McLaren is entirely of Scottish descent, and anybody from Northern Ireland with this name was most probably of Scottish descent. It is NOT of Northern Irish origin.

This name is one of many Scottish surnames which Americans seem determined to label as Irish. If Pakistanis moved to Scotland 100 years ago then one of them moved to America now, their name wouldn't suddenly be of Scottish origin. So why is there such a detrmination among Americans to make Scottish names Irish? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seso101 (talk • contribs) 14:01, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

The article used a reference to Dictionary of American Family Names. DO you have any references to support your claim? Staszek Lem (talk) 21:11, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

External Resources for Etymology

The two resources given on Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/External resources (etymology) for first/given names both seem to be gone now. Is anyone aware of alternatives? Endlesspumpkin (talk) 06:55, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Free access this week to Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland

See Morris, Steven (14 May 2020). "Surnames dictionary goes free for family bonding in lockdown". The Guardian. Retrieved 17 May 2020. PamD 08:13, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Bruell/brull last name

Can I add the history/definition of this name on the article Brüll — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruellman123 (talk • contribs) 05:30, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Bruellman123: You are welcome to add that information, as long as what you add is supported by references to Reliable independent published sources, not just family tradition. PamD 06:33, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I see you've got a well-sourced draft at Draft:Bruell: go ahead and add that content to Brüll. I've added a sourced note about the British use of "Bruell", which can still stay. PamD 07:17, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Mandich

Hello. While creating Mandich, I added Category:Surnames of Serbian origin, but it's a red link, so I replaced it with Category:Serbian-language surnames. However, it may be inaccurate because it looks like the Serbian-language surname is Mandić. Are there enough notable individuals with surnames of Serbian origin to create a new category please? Please ping me when you reply.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:43, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Separating Du Bois and Dubois

I got here looking for W.E.B. Du Bois. I was absolutely sure searching for Du Bois would take me directly there (I thought he would be by far the most prominent person with that name) but instead it took me to Dubois which I found misleading. Still looking for W.E.B. Du Bois, I have to click on Dubois (surname) even though this is not at all what I am looking for. Dubois (surname) lists mostly people named Dubois and sprinkled in between a few Du Bois (including W.E.B.). I suggest either 1) re-directing Du Bois to W.E.B. Du Bois + a "for other usage" link to DuBois or 2) separating the Dubois' and the Du Bois' and putting them in their respective wiki pages or 3) explaining in DuBois that people named Du Bois can be found under Dubois (surname) in which case I also suggest listing Dubois' and Du Bois' separately in Dubois (surname). --Kaiser Nero (talk) 17:01, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kaiser Nero: Thanks for sharing your experience. Regarding the surname entry at Dubois, ideally it should mention that it include a list of people per WP:APODAB. I've updated the description there. Combining or separating entires has its tradeoffs. A person like yourself who knew the exact spelling has to wade through entries with spellings you are not interested in. A person who might not know the correct spelling would have to run through multiple pages instead of a one-stop search if they were combined. As for whether Du Bois should redirect to W.E.B's page, WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is the relevant guideline. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 17:35, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

No split, per Bagumba. For comparison, the French (who should know their Duboises better :-) wikipedians have exactly same arrangement: Du Bois -> Dubois -> Dubois (patronyme). However I do agree that W.E.B. is the primary topic for Du Bois , which should redirect there, the latted supplied with {{redirect}} hatnote. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation tag

Is this necessary please?Zigzig20s (talk) 15:41, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

No, per {{Surname/doc}}. The page is either a surname article tagged with {{Surname}} or a disambiguation page (including a surname list) tagged with {{Disambiguation|surname}}, but can't be both. This one looks like a pure surname article, as opposed to Donoso which is was a dab. Certes (talk) 15:50, 30 May 2020 (

(edit conflict) No, it's not a disambiguation page so the dab tag should be removed. Prahlad balaji is notorious for getting involved with things he doesn't understand, so take any of his actions with a grain of salt. -- Tavix ^(talk) 15:51, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Tavix sorry. --Stay safe, ◊PRAHLAD^balaji (M•T•A•C) This message was left at 16:00, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

That's what I thought. Glad we are all on the same page. Have a nice day!Zigzig20s (talk) 16:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

Hyndman

Hyndman needs a major trim.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:45, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Done. 59.149.124.29 (talk) 03:35, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages for double names

Disambiguation pages for multiple given names, such as John Taylor (given name), are being discussed here. Certes (talk) 14:05, 1 June 2020 (UTC)