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This is the discussion page of Tambayan Philippines, where Filipino contributors and contributors to Philippine-related articles discuss general matters regarding the development of Philippine-related articles as well as broad topics on the Philippines with respect to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. Likewise, this talk page also serves as the regional notice board for Wikipedia concerns regarding the Philippines, enabling other contributors to request input from Filipino Wikipedians.

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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gina F. Acosta

There's an AFD about one of Sara Duterte's staffmembers (no, not the one cited for contempt and is now in hospital arrest). I have argued for a merge and redirect to an article about the current happenings, but it seems there's no such article about that. The last one was 2024 constitutional reform attempts in the Philippines, but that's for charter change, and not just solely about Sara Duterte's issues. There was discussion on what happens next after that, and it seems that this is it. The current article can be transformed into a discussion about the current congressional hearings, but what should be the title? 2024 Philippine congressional hearings on Sara Duterte? Howard the Duck (talk) 01:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

It sounds more like a full-blown political crisis beyond Batasan these days but I couldn’t think of a more sober title for now. Borgenland (talk) 01:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Mary Grace Piattos? Howard the Duck (talk) 01:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Or should it be something along the lines of the expenses scandal? Borgenland (talk) 05:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

If Sara Duterte is impeached, it would be a lot easier. The expenses scandal has been ongoing for a long time, and was rooted in the House not granting her request of more confidential funds for the 2025 budget. I realize we actually do not have an article about that, but should have. Howard the Duck (talk) 01:28, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

How about "Assassination plot against Bongbong Marcos, Liza Araneta Marcos and Martin Romualdez by Sara Duterte, if she were to be killed first"? That's one heck of a long title. HueMan1 (talk) 14:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd rather call it the Marcos-Duterte dispute or vice versa. Borgenland (talk) 14:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd like this, but its Martin Romualdez that's doing the dirty work. I kinda like 2024 Philippine congressional hearings on Sara Duterte until Sara Duterte is impeached (since this is where they are going at), then it becomes Impeachment of Sara Duterte. Howard the Duck (talk) 19:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I folded up Romualdez as a blood relative of Marcos (can't make it look like a three-way fight) but I am leaning support for this. Borgenland (talk) 19:33, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah Marcos-Romualdez-Duterte dispute looks weird. Are we going to wait until VPSD is impeached or has someone already has something in the drafts or somewhere? We can have VPSD's staffmembers names redirected to that article, such as Acosta's, once created. Howard the Duck (talk) 21:03, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Upon further thought, Marcos–Duterte dispute or even Romualdez–Duterte dispute is not exactly right as House representatives have been the ones doing the dirty work, while Romauldez is mostly behind the scenes; i.e. Romualdez doesn't show up on hearings.

Suggested article titles:

• 2024 Philippine congressional hearings on Sara Duterte
• Sara Duterte confidential funds scandal
• Mary Grace Piattos scandal
• Marcos–Duterte dispute
• Romualdez–Duterte dispute
• Something else

Any of these article titles will be superseded if VPSD is impeached (by these reasons). Howard the Duck (talk) 21:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Sara Duterte

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Hello people! I nominated Sara Duterte on ITN you can check this ITN Sara Duterte. Let me know if I need changes or suggestions. Royiswariii Talk! 05:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

As much as "In the news" is named "In the news", it doesn't actually include everything that's "In the news". If Sara were impeached over this, then yes, that would be ITN-worthy. But statements are just statements; nothing has happened. This is a nothingburger. Chlod (say hi!) 05:16, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, i thought that too but i just tried to ITN if it will entered my nomination since and this is a controversial and a big conflict.Royiswariii Talk! 05:26, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move at Talk:Libingan ng mga Bayani#Requested move 26 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Libingan ng mga Bayani#Requested move 26 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. HueMan1 (talk) 11:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Man, this WP:RM is so shameful LOL. This should not have been done. Now there's a chance this will be moved to the article name absolutely none of English speaking Filipinos (sorry, not part of the English speaking world now I guess?) use. Utter shambles! Howard the Duck (talk) 01:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Mashiding Lomandong

Could someone from this WikiProject take a look at Mashiding Lomandong and assess it per WP:BIO? Most of the sources cited in the article are to Facebook posts, and the creator might have a WP:COI. If, however, the subject is notable, those things could possibly be cleaned up or better sources could be found. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:45, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

At this stage it qualifies for speedy deletion. Borgenland (talk) 07:54, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

The article was speedily deleted but was recreated shortly afterwards by the author, who changed name. It has been nominated again for deletion on similar grounds. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mashiding Lomandong. Borgenland (talk) 16:14, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

And I have suspicion that at least one participant in the discussion may be a sock. Borgenland (talk) 16:15, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

There are now two possible socks. Borgenland (talk) 09:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

The name change isn't really an issue since accounts flagged as potential violations of WP:PROMONAME are given the option to request a username change if they want to continue using the account. The "new" accounts showing up, on the other hand, is a concern, but that's being asked about and will be resolved here. The new accounts might not necessarily be socks per se, but it does seem at least to be a case of WP:MEAT. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:20, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Update: all three accounts have just been CU verified to be technically indistinguishable and blocked as a result. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:38, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Photography task force

Many articles are lacking proper pictures and portraits to represent a visual identification of the article, which is heavily needed in order to make articles more "proper" and to make them more "readable". One of the possible solutions to this is a proposed photography task force where you list articles which need pictures and have a "request" to add one. I'm sure there's a system there at the to-do page, but the system looks pale.

This might be more far-fetched, but I also propose a provincial system, where Wikipedians from that specific province get requests to take pictures of near landmarks, like where Commons finds your location and shows you the nearest landmarks to take a picture of, but I don't think there's a public demand for these pictures.

So there might be a need of a photography task force, hence my three-paragraph comment, but there might be problems along this path. Do we really need these pictures? Do editors want to show their respective province? But even though these problems might stall this project, I think these problems won't largely impact this task force project. I might be overthinking though, but this might be needed. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 (My "blotter") 09:01, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Before organizing a provincial system for photos, it would be good to know 1) what articles don't have images, 2) whether we are sure relevant images don't exist on Commons already. CMD (talk) 09:25, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

There is no need for a separate list of pages. {{WikiProject Tambayan Philippines}} includes a |needs-image= parameter which automatically categorizes pages into Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in the Philippines. Much of these are schools, institutions, and buildings which cannot be given images on Commons due to the lack of freedom of panorama in the country (though they may be uploaded as non-free images instead). Landmarks, statues, and other creative public works are also out due to this same issue, making the appeal of trying to get photographers anywhere in the country to take photos of landmarks nil. There is still the minority of pages which aren't affected by the lack of FoP, but most of these need more effort than just travelling to a building and snapping a quick photo. Chlod (say hi!) 09:38, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, FOP is a problem. You can't just snap pics anywhere. Even sidewalks are not a fair game LOL. Howard the Duck (talk) 10:37, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Streets should be alright and de minimis applies? No? But the problem is landmarks are still the "premium" and "ideal" images for LGU articles. I mean photos of more "modern" buildings can be uploaded locally here in Wikipedia under fair use + using US FoP but the average Wikipedia/Wikicommons editor or contributor isn't savy enough for that. So their uploads of photos they took themselves in the Commons are usually in danger of getting nominated for deletion unless they are photos of Spanish colonial buildings or very generic structures.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 03:18, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I dunno. The photos I took of the Eastwood City Walk of Fame were all deleted (LOL). You could argue every structure built since the 1980s is fair game and even a street-level "cityscape" photo violates that. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Sure, though we can use a provincial sort for easy answers to requests. 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 (My "blotter") 05:03, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

MABINI

ライブ Mabuhay! I have created a stub for Movement of Attorneys for Brotherhood, Integrity, and Nationalism, also known as MABINI. But I am sure many people won't find it using that name, so I am thiking to also create a redirect at MABINI (Human Rights Organization) or something like that. The problem is obviously, there are very many pages named with some variation of Mabini. I am not sure how best to proceed with making the page more accessible. Would you have any suggestions? - Chieharumachi (talk) 13:03, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Use all caps MABINI. Howard the Duck (talk) 22:18, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I have went ahead and redirect MABINI to Movement of Attorneys for Brotherhood, Integrity, and Nationalism, and added a hatnote to that article to Mabini. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh, that's a great idea. And thank you for creating the redirect! - Chieharumachi (talk) 08:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Ramón Alcaraz and Ramon A. Alcaraz

Oh, I have also noticed that the World War II and Martial Law era hero Ramon A. Alcaraz has an awkward disambiguation, probably because the Ramón Alcaraz article is older. Is there a way to make this situation more fair? Like talking to the Tambayan equivalent in Mexico? What to do next? - Chieharumachi (talk) 13:09, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Make an RM like what was done with Talk:Mariano Gomez (priest)#Requested move 25 February 2021. GiantSnowman's suggestion was a good one. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:49, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

But with both the Mexican and the Filipino being military officers, what term would be best? Ramón Alcaraz (Mexico) and Ramon Alcaraz (Philippines)? Ramón Alcaraz (Mexican Army) and Ramon Alcaraz (Philippine Navy)? Ramón Alcaraz (Mexican military writer) and Ramon Alcaraz (Philippine Navy Commodore)? - Chieharumachi (talk) 15:05, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Occupation is usually the norm. Borgenland (talk) 15:49, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I suppose "Mexican soldier" and "Filipino soldier". Some may say birth years but personally I'd oppose that. Howard the Duck (talk) 22:17, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Ideally, this should what happen:

• Ramon Alcaraz will be a dab containing these three articles:
• Ramón Alcaraz (Mexican soldier)
• Ramon Alcaraz (Filipino soldier)
• BRP Ramon Alcaraz, naval ship named after the Filipino

Howard the Duck (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I thought so too. But... a generic Naval person is not technically a "soldier," but a "seaman." But seaman makes it sounds like he is from lower decks. Plus the Commodore is so attached to him that most people call him that. "Si Commodore!"; or even "Si sir Commodore Drug!" (On the other hand, the Mexican is barely known for his soldiering during his term, but for his Military writing after that.) Not wanting to argue, I am thankful for your suggestion. Just seeking more clarity before I propose anything :D - Chieharumachi (talk) 00:48, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Although come to think of it, maybe I will make an RM now, and leave it all up to the discussion there. I will update everyone when I do.- Chieharumachi (talk) 00:50, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

FWIW, soldiering can be many different fields. Auxiliaries (those who cook food, for example), chaplains and the like are soldiers too. Also, these disambiguators are based on the most general adjectives, and "soldier" fits both. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:53, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I can also suggest the wordier "military officer". Howard the Duck (talk) 01:02, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

With respect (I mean it; I'm just repeating what I've grown up knowing), I have always used the same definitions as in Military personnel#Terminology: "Military personnel who serve in an army or otherwise large land force are referred to as soldiers. Those who serve in a navy, coast guard, or other seagoing force are seamen or sailors. Naval infantry or marines are personnel who serve both on land and at sea, and may be part of a navy or a marine corps. Personnel who serve in air forces are airmen. Space force personnel typically do not have a specific term given how few exist, but in the U.S. Space Force personnel are referred to as guardians." But that's because my lolo is from the Philippine Air Force, and he corrected anyone who ever called him a "soldier." And the Navy people I know are extremely adamant about "sailor." (Marines don't seem to mind as much, but still prefer Marine/marino.) But I also recognize that common use makes "soldier" a term for all Military Personnel. In Tagalog, though, they all answer to "Sundalo" from civilians. On base, I sometimes heard "Kawal."- Chieharumachi (talk) 01:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

FWIW, if it is unspecified which branch a person is from, the Tagalog term "sundalo" which translates to "soldier" in English. If it is later known that the person is from the navy, it becomes "marino"/"sailor", or from the air force, "piloto"/"pilot". It's like every basketball player is a "basketball player" until it is learned that one is a guard, forward, center, etc. Howard the Duck (talk) 01:16, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I filed an RM the moment I said I wold do so, before your "military officer" suggestion, sorry. But maybe we can suggest that there. - Chieharumachi (talk) 01:12, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

LGU income classes

I have two points to raise. First, the Department of Finance published Department Order No. 074.2024 last month. This updated the brackets for the various income classes for provinces, cities, and municipalities. Annex A of the DO also provides the old and new income classes of all classified LGUs that will take effect on 1 January 2025.

Second, I kinda don't like that the first sentence of most LGU articles (especially cities and municipalities), state the income class (e.g., "Cagayancillo [...] is a 6th class municipality in the province of Palawan, Philippines.". I don't think the income class is a vital property of said LGUs that they need to be mentioned in the lead, let alone the first sentence. I prefer that these just be relegated instead to the infobox (already there) and/or the "Economy" section. —seav (talk) 20:21, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I'd agree income classes don't deserve WP:LEAD treatment. There are 1,500 articles and we'd have to rewrite the leads. I'd hold off on updating these for now, and wait until the 2025 election winners have taken office so we can just do one one mass batched edits on these.

Aside from income class in the lead, some LGU articles erroneously list all elected local officials as members of the "Sangguniang Bayan" when it is not. These should be labeled like "Elected local officials" or something similar. Also, LGU articles' infoboxes show "District" and this can mean several things; most likely this refers to congressional district. We can remove this from the infobox and replace this with congressional and provincial board districts. Infoboxes also list all sanggunian members; maybe just show the party standing as of the last election (we don't show all 24 senators in the Philippines infobox, for example LOL). Howard the Duck (talk) 00:10, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I'd also would like to ask how often are income classifications updated? Howard the Duck (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Ideally, income classifications update yearly per RA 11964 (enacted 2023). But before RA 11964, the classifications weren't updated that often. Heck, some cities still have their old municipal income class even though they've been cities for a long time like Cabuyao (city since 2012 but income class is still 1st municipal).[1] —seav (talk) 03:18, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

I think provincial income classifications are updated more frequently; this is the basis of Sangguniang Panlalawigan sizes, and some provinces want that $$$ that comes with more seats. For cities and municipalities, this is not the case, so I dunno what's the IRL difference... maybe salaries of local officials are dependent on income classification? If that's the case there's also incentive to do better, but it's more self-centered. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

2025 Philippine local elections in Metro Manila

There had been several new articles about these series. Local elections are done at the LGU level (regions are not LGUs, and only one region has a regional government). I'd just wait for the entire series to be completed, then we'd just split this to individual articles per province and independent city. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:18, 7 December 2024 (UTC)