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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 9

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April 9

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Category:Slavic ethnic groups

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: withdrawn. Clarified during discussion with descriptions. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:03, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Same subject. Most children are already in both cats. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:56, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ancient Slavs

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Ancient Slavic peoples. This is in consideration of Early Slavs being about individuals, but Ancient Slavic peoples about people groups. bibliomaniac15 19:53, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Recently created (October 2022) duplicate of Category:Early Slavs. Ancient Slavs redirects to Early Slavs, so WP:C2D. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:51, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. I'll add that to the nomination. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:24, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:North Germanic tribes

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 04:32, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Same subject. See also Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_9#Category:Celtic_tribes. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:28, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Northern European people

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 04:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Reeeeeally WP:NONDEFINING, and a rather WP:ARBITRARYCAT. There isn't even an agreed definition of what "Northern Europe" even is, but apparently it includes the Channel Islands (through Category:Jersey people), Luxembourg (through Category:Northern European countries), the Soviet Union (through Category:Soviet people), Siberia (through Siberian Finns, through Category:Finnic people), and.... the United States (through Category:Danish people > Category:Greenlandic people > ... Category:Greenlandic emigrants to the United States. Enough with the arbitrary geographic categories already! Ceterum censeo istam categoriam delendam esse. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:13, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Celtic kingdoms

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 22:48, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING. See also Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_4#Category:Countries_by_language_family, by which Category:Germanic kingdoms, Category:Germanic empires etc. were deleted. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:28, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Celtic tribes

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Historical Celtic peoples. There is no consensus on the title of the merged category. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:21, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Same subject. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:59, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I (as nom) am therefore opposed to renaming the target to Category:Ancient Celtic peoples and tribes. I'm open to Category:Ancient Celtic peoples (currently a redirect to Category:Celts) or Category:Early Celtic peoples, but that's not what this CfM is about. I just want to merge them. What to call the target cat is probably best dealt in a new CfR afterwards. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:39, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Anglophone people

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: downmerge. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 22:46, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT 1 C, 0 P. (Note: this is not about deletion; previous CfD closed as no consensus. This is about clearing up unnecessary layers). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:42, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Went to tag the Canadian cat but realized it was just recently nominated this year. Let's see how this nomination does and go from there. - RevelationDirect (talk) 12:14, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, the CfD text wasn't properly removed after the previous nomination, quite strange. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:23, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Germanic ethnic groups

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 22:45, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The category Category:Germanic ethnic groups (created in 2018, originally as Category:Modern Germanic peoples) interferes with the established category tree Category:People by nationality. Ethnicity has an entirely different category tree. The description of Category:People by nationality states this clearly: This category contains articles on people according to their civic nationality (legal affiliation with a state). For articles related to people according to ethnic concepts of nationality, see: Category:People by ethnicity
The only 3 children of Category:Germanic ethnic groups that are not in the Category:People by nationality tree are Category:Afrikaner people, Category:Frisians, and Category:Swiss-German people, all of which are defined by sharing a native language, and these three native languages each just so happen to belong to the Germanic languages family. Grouping them into a category based soleley on that fact violates WP:OCEGRS: people should only be categorized by ethnicity or religion if this has significant bearing on their career. Having a native language that belongs to a certain language family is WP:NONDEFINING for an individual's career.
This has been a reason to delete categories according to many precedents, including but not limited to:
Lastly, the description of the category claims: This category lists articles related to the Germanic ethnic groups. But "Germanic" links to Germanic peoples, which states: The Germanic peoples were historical groups of people (...); in other words, the "Germanic peoples" no longer exist. This is supported by the fact that Category:Germanic people by century goes no further than the 12th century, which has been established by several precedents as well (see Category talk:Germanic people#Scope). Categorising groups of people living in the 21st century as "Germanic peoples" is therefore inappropriate.
Therefore, the entire category needs to be deleted, as it has no legitimate purpose. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:13, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:AS Dragons players

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 22:45, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: I just disambiguated the main article to AS Dragons (Kinshasa), so this is not eligible for speedy renaming. – Fayenatic London 20:54, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Water skiing by year

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge/delete. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 22:44, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT. Not nearly enough content per year for these categories. –Aidan721 (talk) 19:15, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Zee Bangla contestants

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 19:17, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Zee Bangla is a TV network, not a TV show, and this category is intended for contestants of any show that ran on Zee Bangla. That's a pretty tenuous point in common. We do have contestants categories, but they are about specific shows. (e.g. Category:The Voice (franchise) contestants) Pichpich (talk) 19:11, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Prelude to the Russian invasion of Ukraine

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy not renamed. Take it to RM. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 19:17, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Renaming will make the category more accurate and specific. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cactinites (talk • contribs) 17:28, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Graduate Center, CUNY

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 19:16, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: To match name of the main article CUNY Graduate Center, following the rebranding of the institution (see Nomenclature section of CUNY Graduate Center Brand Guide): "Nomenclature". CUNY Graduate Center Brand Guide. Brooks patty (talk) 17:21, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Medieval Low Countries

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. However, five of the listed categories will be upmerged per WP:SMALLCAT. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:03, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C. This merger solves many issues, including some which were earlier noted at CfD People of medieval Belgium, where Several editors express interest in alternate proposals (e.g. some sort of a merge). This is that merge. To avoid pointless arguments invoking tradition, nationalism or whatever, I'm going to be very technical and precise, and phrase the rationale in the form of an F.A.Q., because I can predict many questions.
Why Category:Medieval Low Countries as overarching parent?
Why should Category:Medieval Belgium and Category:Medieval Netherlands be merged into Category:Medieval Low Countries?
Why doesn't Category:Medieval Luxembourg have to be merged, but can remain a subcategory as it is now?
Why "People from Fooland" instead of "People of Fooland" or "Fooian people"? See precedents such as:
I hope the nomination is clear to everyone, and that I've been diligent in suggesting solutions. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:00, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Thuringia

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 19#Category:Rulers of Thuringia

Category:Rulers of Styria

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 16#Category:Rulers of Styria

Category:Rulers of Sicily

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 19:14, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This was another typical "rulers" category in which appointed positions such as governors were mixed with hereditary positions such as kings. I've moved all of the latter to Category:Monarchs of Sicily, which already existed, and done a lot of re-parenting already. If we rename the remainder to "Governors of Sicily", the job is basically done. We could containerise it if we like, but that doesn't seem necessary for the moment. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:17, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Quadi rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Quadi kings. WP:BARTENDER. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 19:13, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: All are called "king" in the sources cited in each of the 5 bios. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 01:07, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Lithuania

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 17#Category:Rulers of Lithuania

Category:Russian rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: downmerge. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 19:11, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT, 1 C, 0 P. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:49, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Dark Horse Comics film characters

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 17#Category:Dark Horse Comics film characters

Category:Rulers of Moldavia

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 19:10, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D List of monarchs of Moldavia, which I BOLDly renamed per WP:C2C parents Category:Lists of Romanian monarchs and Category:Romanian monarchs, and to make clear we are not talking about heads of state/govt in republics. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:23, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Rulers of Milan

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  Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 4#Category:Rulers of Milan

Category:Fictional cannabis users

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. This is a bit of a weird one, but there's only one member who explicitly has a cannabis addiction, making this a smallcat. (non-admin closure) {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 04:40, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Not defining. ★Trekker (talk) 00:03, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Defining (keep in category):
Willie the Weeper
Patsy Stone
Hayley Smith (American Dad!)
Nondefining (remove from category):
Ash Williams
Turtle (Entourage) (probably not)
Jax Teller
Janice Soprano
A.J. Soprano (was expelled from college but not for smoking cannabis, so unlike Trotter not a single-but-career-altering event)
Saracen (comics)
Doubtful (discuss):
Rodney Trotter (was expelled from college for smoking cannabis, so a single but career-altering event)
Effy Stonem (it is mentioned in series 2 and 3 and plays an important and perhaps even essential role there, but doesn't seem to be defining, as it is absent in series 1 and 4, so this character changes; the last name "Stonem" also doesn't appear to be a pun on being "stoned")
That seems enough to keep it as a cat without becoming a SMALLCAT after purging. I'm open to nom's idea that it might need a better name to prevent adding characters for whom it is nondefining, because the disclaimer (added in 2016, shortly after it was created in 2015) doesn't appear to (have) work(ed) well enough. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:18, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Rename & Purge Sure, I'm open minded with that approach. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:34, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As reasonable as this approach appears to be, from my looking it seems the only article which specifically asserts a cannabis addiction is Hayley Smith (American Dad!) Others mention addictions to other drugs such as cocaine or just a drug addiction generally without further clarification. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 05:20, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alright, you got me. I've done pretty much everything I can to save this category, but it is a hopeless case. It either inappropriately labels characters (e.g. on closer inspection, Willie the Weeper is addicted to "dope" and Patsy Stone to "smoking", but not cannabis/marijuana etc.; the article mentions nicotine and cigarettes) or serves no legitimate purpose, so putting Hayley Smith in fictional drug addicts and otherwise deleting the category is the most reasonable conclusion. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:01, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I should point out that the people I sorted above are only those with surnames S, T, and W, just as a sampling of 11 people out of the 63 in total to test whether a purge could prevent deletion per SMALLCAT, but there might be other addicts amongst the remaining 52 that we haven't checked. @QuietHere: did "your looking" include all 63? I don't expect a lot more to show up, and I'm not bringing this up to still prevent deletion, just that if we might run into another supposed addict like Hayley Smith, we could still put them in the parent category for fictional drug addicts, otherwise we might miss them upon deletion. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:17, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I looked through the whole category. There are several others which should be sorted into the parent cat or some of the other children if they aren't there already, but Smith is the only one that specifically calls out a cannabis addiction like I said. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 00:51, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok thanks! Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:34, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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