User talk:Sam Vimes/Archive3

Archived messages: Part 1 (Feb-Sep 2005) | Part 2 (Sep 2005-mid April 2006) | Part 3 (mid April 2006-Sep 2006) | Part 4 (Sep 2006-Mar 2007)

Mike Powell's

Hello Sam,

I've discovered that there are two Mike Powell's in county cricket. I've called them Mike Powell (Glamorgan cricketer) [1] and Mike Powell (Warwickshire cricketer) [2]. But at the moment, we have lots of articles linking to Michael Powell (cricketer). That currently redirects to the Welsh one, but both of them link to there, and I haven't had time to disentangle them all.

Stephen Turner (Talk) 17:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

There was a third Mike Powell too who was around three or four years back. Tintin (talk) 06:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Old Skool Esperanzial note

Since this isn't the result of an AC meeting, I have decided to go Old Skool. This note is to remind you that the elections are taking place now and will end at 23:50 UTC on 2006-04-29. Please vote here. Thanks. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Pro 20

Sorry, didn't know that. I went to his talk page to drop a message, but it contains nothing but vandalism warnings ! I'll keep track of his edits to make sure that he doesn't start a new article. Thanks. Tintin (talk) 06:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Australia In England 2005 Duplication

I've finished my summary of the tour for the Australian cricket team in England in 2005 page. I believe the detailed match summaries are duplicated elsewhere, when I check that I'll make sure that any that can be moved/deleted are moved/deleted (not sure about the warm-up matches, but the Tests are definitely repeated somewhere). It won't be done for a while yet, but it's on my list of things to do (I just haven't added that list to my userpage yet).

Paddyohale 18:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Time for a new RfA?

After browsing through Your contributions and the talk archives I wonder if You would consider again getting nominated for adminship. I believe the offer from ALoan is also still in effect. Please think about it (and reply...). Remember, the 1st RfA was just a warm-up. feydey 23:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I too think you should run again. There is never any obligation to user them massively, as about half the admins only use them 10 times in a given month. Still, it is useful when coming across vandals. You have excellent standing in the community, as adminship is also a ambassadorial role.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 07:12, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Kjetil r as admin on commons

Hi! The norwegians have put foreward an admin request on commons, commons:Template:Administrators/Requests and votes/Kjetil r. It would be nice to have your votes! — John Erling Blad (no) 21:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

sam vimes

I was just wondering if you have read any of the Terry Pratchett works concerning your namesake? When I saw your name my immediate thought was you must be a pTerry nut - but no you're a cricket nut instead! (and not even from the Commonwealth of Nations - what the... ?) Garrie 01:24, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I was just thinking the same thing...—Vanderdecken∴∫ξφ 10:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #3

Administrator Coaching The Administrator Coaching program is a program aimed at preparing Wikipedians for Adminship or helping them understand the intricacies of Wikipedia better. Recently, changes have been made to the requirements of coachees. Please review them before requesting this service. This would be something like the Welcoming Committee, but for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. Some might like suggestions about how to learn vandal patrol, or mentoring on taking an article to featured status, or guidance with a proposal they plan to make at the Village Pump, for example. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins. Stressbusters The Stressbusters are a subset of Esperanza aiming to investigate the causes of stress. New eyes on the situation are always welcome! Note from the editor As always, MiszaBot handled this delivery. Thank you! Also, congratulations go to Pschemp, Titoxd and Freakofnurture for being elected in the last elections! An Esperanzial May to all of the readership!

The last AC meeting (full log) Posting logs of the Esperanza IRC channel are explicitly banned anywhere. Violation of this rule results in deletion and a ban from the channel. A disclaimer is going to be added to the Esperanza main page. We are humans and, as such, are imperfect. Various revisions have been made to the Code of Conduct. Please see them, as the proposal is ready to be ratified by the community and enacted. All members will members to have to re-confirm their membership after accepting the Code of Conduct. Referendums are to be held on whether terms of AC members should be lengthened and whether we should abolish votes full stop. Admin Coaching reform is agreed upon. Signed... Celestianpower, JoanneB, Titoxd, Pschemp and Freakofnurture 20:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Sam - Brookie here - thanks for your help on the Julien Cahn piece - musch appreciated Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! ^(Whisper...) 08:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Michael Lumb

Hi Sam

I just realized that a small edit war had broken out on the article Michael Lumb. Apparently, that's the name of both a Danish footballer and an English / South African cricketer. To avoid further problems, I've separated the two persons into individual articles, and in order to avoid having to guess if the cricketer is best decribed as British or South African, I simply moved his (deleted) article to Michael John Lumb. I've updated all links now, but unfortunately, that also meant updating the links on a number of the pages in your sandbox. I hope you don't mind. Nice work on the cricket material, btw. Best regards. Valentinian ^(talk) 12:44, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

RFA

I would be happy to nominate, if you care to stick your head above the parapet one more time? -- ALoan (Talk) 23:31, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I could always butt in and conominate - That's what happened on my RfA - and your article writing is far superior to mine and I still got in very easily, so there you go.Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 07:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Feel free. Formal template and link below. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:43, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Additional RfA Question

Hi Sam, I've added an additional optional question to your RfA. Good luck, Gwernol 17:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked that user...

And since it's his second block, the first of which was 24 hours, it feels right to have doubled it. Seeing as he'll only continue anyway. Bobo. 18:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations

What follows will have to pass for wise words :), but in any case, have fun using the new tools to make this a better place. Be conservative with the admin tools, particulary at first, and re-read the relevant policies before taking action. Again, congratulations - Taxman ^Talk 16:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

My congrats to you!--Kungfu Adam ^(talk) 17:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Sam get my name right at least :)

Hi Sam, you just added a thank you note for your RfA, to my talk page, you had my name right, and then you edited it and changed to Andypandy.uk. What's going on Sam?? --Wisden17 17:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't admin bite! ;-) --Andeh 18:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Haha. No, I should watch myself now! --Wisden17 18:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations

Glad to hear that your request was successful. You will make a great admin! Good luck. - Ganeshk (talk) 17:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Taxman sure was feeling generous with those 19 oppose votes, have fun & good luck!--Andeh 18:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Well to be fair, a lot of those opposes were stated as 'weak', so if I was the BC I'd have probably promoted as well. Anyway Sam, I hope my comments were reasonably self-explanatory, I look forward to seeing my caution shown as being unfounded! Petros471 19:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Congrats

Just dont let the power go to your head,Just Kidding, and besides, you were bound to be an admin anyway, you are one of the best editors on wikipedia--^TheNation 18:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations

It was my pleasure to nominate you. FWIW, I think you should have been made an admin last time, and most of the opposition this time was over a relative non-issue.

Good luck with the shiny new buttons - don't use them all at once! -- ALoan (Talk) 19:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I must congratulate You too, as the opposition was strange. Good riddance. feydey 21:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations. Here are what pass for words of wisdom from the puppy:

Remember you will always protect the wrong version. Remember you must always follow the rules, except for when you ignore them. You will always pick the wrong one to do. (See #5) Remember to assume good faith and not bite. Remember that when you are applying these principles most diligently, you are probably dealing with a troll. Use the block ability sparingly. Enjoy the insults you receive when you do block. Remember when you make these errors, someone will be more than happy to point them out to you in dazzling clarity and descriptive terminology. and finally, Remember to contact me if you ever need assistance, and I will do what I am able. KillerChihuahua?!?

DISCLAIMER: This humor does not reflect the official humor of Wikipedia, the Wikimedia Foundation, or Jimbo Wales. All rights released under GFDL.

Congrats and best wish.--Jusjih 22:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

A toast. Drink up

All the best on a well deserved promotion Sam. The hardest fought are the sweetest, and AFAIK, nobody has ever fought back from 45% at the 20 "vote" stage to pass an RfA. Luckily, the bureaucrat probably ignored Anwar, and noted that you had two arbitrators and 1 bureaucrat supporting you with well thought out statements. Many regards and thankyou again for your help when I was starting out. Blnguyen | rant-line 00:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Good luck and congratulations Sam. I know you'll be an excellent admin - and we need more like you - particularly Norwegian cricket fans! ;) -- I@n ≡ talk 01:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations, and you're very welcome! --Merovingian {T C @} 02:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Congrats and a request

Congrats on your successful RfA. It wasn't until you thanked me that I realized -- I forgot to sign my comment (d'oh). Someone attributed the comment to me, but I would like to sign it myself. Obviously those archived RfA's are not supposed to be modified, but do you think I could sneak in a quick correction? Thanks either way, and congrats again, - Draeco 22:46, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for acquiescing, though I didn't mean for you to do all of the work - Draeco 23:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations

I'm delighted to see your RFA passing! I'm sure you'll do a great job. :-) Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Wisden Leading Player

Hello, Sam. I'm doing a general tidy up of categories to move stray articles into appropriate categories. The Wisden Leading Player category was effectively duplicating both the Awards and Rankings category, which is well established and which includes a detailed article about the award to date with links to all three players who have won it. We are being overburdened by some of these categories which end up taking articles from their right place and not adding value. Another I've got rid of was vaguely called club cricketers and had only stubs re three administrators who all belong in the cricket administrator category.

I'll take your point re the deletion policy though. Must admit I didn't know you could request a delete. I've asked about this before and was told that unused categories get periodically removed by housekeeping bots. All the best. --Jack 22:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks, Sam. I do use the edit summary normally but I might have omitted an odd one. I haven't noticed the 1999 cat yet but I'll make a note. The history cats need looking at depth and I'll be doing that this weekend. --Jack 22:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations!

Congratulations on becoming an administrator and best of luck in the future! - Patman2648 02:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sam, congrats on the promotion. Enjoy the shiny new buttons! --Srikeit ^{(Talk | Email)} 11:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Congrats but please don't let the admin stuff interfere with your article editing :-) Tintin (talk) 10:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Your recent decision on 3RR

With regards to your decision on [3], you have written: "The first revert cited is not identical to the other 3, and they are part of different edit conflicts. Hence no block."

I don't understand your reasoning. WP:3RR explicitly states that "an editor must not perform more than three reversions, in whole or in part, on a single Wikipedia article within a 24 hour period."; and "there is no requirement for the reverts to be related: any four reverts on the same page count." Please explain. Aquirata 15:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

A short Esperanzial update

As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.

As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Wikipedia:Esperanza/June 2006 elections.

Thanks and kind, Esperanzial regards, —Celestianpower ^háblame 16:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Australian ODI cricketers

I posted my support statement in the candidacy page. Nice work! Cheers! Afonso Silva 22:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Project Control

Sam, I see you have become an administrator so congrats on that. Do you know if it is possible to set up any kind of project control by the project's members over its categories, if not its articles, to stop interference from outside in work that is done on behalf of the project by its own members? For example, if a definite or apparent consensus is gained within the project to take certain actions especially around deleting, merging or renaming categories, why can this be derailed because someone from outside the project objects to it, usually on the basis of some procedural technicality? Project control would also stop random Afd selection by persons who are disinterested and do not understand the point of an article or the reason for its creation. Do you think we have any chance of achieving this? --Jack 12:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

FIFA World Cup 2006

You deleted a link with comment, "If everyone listed favourite links, the page would be swamped." But this does not take into account the quality of the link. The spreadsheet link offers a document which lists all matches in convenient format with lots of details of games, plus computes the league tables automatically when you enter the scores. It's a high-quality contribution, not just spam! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.202.202.59 (talk • contribs) 22:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Zimbabwean cricket team

Outstanding peer review. Are you sure you're only 18? Thanks so much. --Dweller 12:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I've worked out where the anomaly lies

There is an entry in Category:Namibian cricketers for Danie Keulder, and yet another for Daniel Keulder. The former garners more Google hits. Should we redirect Daniel to Danie? All the best. Bobo. 21:02, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Sam Vimes said: We usually follow Cricinfo, and as they have Danie and google have Danie, redirecting Daniel to Danie seems sensible.

Sensible advice, thank you. Though, I'm having trouble creating the redirect page.. Otherwise, I think I'm more-or-less sorted with the rest of the Namibian cricketers. East and Central Africa, here I come! Bobo. 21:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Can't make it disambiguate

I've tried three or four times and it's just not disambiguating properly. I'm sure it used to work.. Bobo. 21:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Working

Sam Vimes said: It works fine for me whenever I click Daniel Keulder, so I guess it's just something with your computer.

It works now. It was just last night there was something wrong with the computer. Thank you Sam. Bobo. 06:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Cricketweb Article

Sam there is now a wikipedia article on cricketweb.

Translation

Hi! Thanks for helping out with the Norwegian translation. --Soman 14:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Tiger Smith

Erm..... to be perfectly honest I'm not sure, I've had a look back and I didn't issue a warning so the only thing I can think is I hit rollback on VP by mistake. I've looked back over my previous 20 or so vandal reverts and it's the only one, so please accept my apologise. Khukri ^{(talk . contribs)} 15:30, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

CfD Process

Hello Sam. I have an issue I want to raise with you as an admin.

I am very unhappy about the CfD process in view of the fact that the views of project members, who know both the subject and the project, are deemed secondary to those of people with no interest in the project and whose motives are unclear. I am currently appalled by suggestions made in one CfD discussion that the project consensus which prompted a category merge proposal is not a consensus at all but effectively a hatched conspiracy with the intention of presenting a fait accompli! Can you believe such utter rubbish? The problem is that the person responsible for it is a regular on the CfD pages and therefore must be able to influence many outcomes.

I would like to propose the following as a CfD policy:

• I believe the deletion process should be turned around. I think a proposal should be made on CfD first and then, after a week, the whole discussion should be handed over to the project for validation or verification. The project members should then reach a consensus taking all views, constructive and otherwise, into account and this consensus should then go to an admin for final decision and to implement if there is an action to be taken (otherwise the matter rests).

• This process would instantly take away the influence of people like the afore-mentioned except that he would be able to express an opinion at stage one (which is fair enough); and the project members could then accept or dismiss his view accordingly, given their knowledge of the project and the subject. Not the other way around as it is now where someone like him can openly dismiss the views of a true expert. The project structure would thus be in the hands of the people who care about it and know what is required of it: the active project members.

What do you think? If you want more details, please ask.

I am assuming there is some kind of admin policy forum where this can be raised. If I can just as easily raise it personally, could you please tell me the address and how to go about it?

Thanks and all the best. Hope you're enjoying the game at Headingley. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 09:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Sam. It doesn't surprise me. As you say, the fundamental principle is that anyone can edit but I would say that the way CfD works, project members are being prevented from carrying out well-meaning "category edits" by those with no knowledge of or interest in the project. The best example of a poor categorisation I can think of for now is the one that prompted my issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_July_30#Merge_all_Philatelist_Categories

The sub-categories in question are too small and nationality is not a useful sub-division of the main category since people in this occupation or pastime are more readily known by name rather than nationality. It is not at all like cricketers, for example, where nationality is significant.

All the best. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 12:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:CRIQ

We're all waiting for Q246 with baited breath... --Dweller 17:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

August Esperanza Newsletter

Program Feature: To-Do List The Esperanza To-Do List is a place where you may list any request, big or small, for assistance. If you need help with archiving your usertalk, for example, all you need to do is list it here and somebody will help you out. Likewise, if you need help with some area of editing on Wikipedia, list it here! Again, any matter, trivial or not, can be placed on this page. However, all matters listed on this page must not be of an argumentative nature. You do not need to be a member of Esperanza (or this program) to place or fulfill requests on this page. If you don't have any requests, consider coming by and fulfilling a few! This program has not been very active, but has lots of potential! What's New? In order to help proposed programs become specific enough to make into full-fledged programs, the In development section of the proposals page has been created. Proposals that are promising, but need to be organized in more detail are listed here. Please take a look at what is there, and help the proposals turn into programs. To improve both the layout and text of the front page, in an attempt to clarify the image of Esperanza, the front page is going to have some redesigning take place. Please take your creative minds to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Front page redesign to brainstorm good ideas. Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.

The last AC meeting (full log) In order to make sure all users who join Esperanza are welcomed, a list of volunteers who are willing to welcome new Esperanzians is at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Members#Esperanza_welcomers. Please add yourself if you are interested; we want to make sure all new Esperanza members are welcomed! The In development section of the proposals page has been created. Proposals page: Some proposals have been moved to the aforementioned "In development" section, some have been left as a proposal, and others have been archived. For those proposals that were a good idea but didn't necessarily constitute a program, General Esperanzial Actions has been created. Two small pieces of charter reform will be decided on in a straw poll at Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Governance. One involves filling the position of any councillors who may leave, the other involves reforming the charter. Until cooperation with the Kindness Campaign is better defined, it remains as a proposed program. There is a page for discussing the front page redesign. Signed... Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, Freakofnurture, and Titoxd 05:03, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.

Lord John Philip Sackville

Sam, we have an article in the cricket history section about Sackville who was a major patron in the mid-18th century and was the father of the famous 3rd Duke of Dorset. The article is all about cricket although someone has included it in a ducal category.

User:Proteus insists that the correct title is Lord John Sackville although the middle name is used throughout the sources, probably to distinguish John Philip from his son John Frederick. But Proteus has changed the opening sentence of the article to include "The Lord John Philip Sackville". I have politely asked him for a rationale and his reply has been a condescending one which does not quote any sources, which I requested. He claims that middle names are not used in article titles but if a person's usual nomenclature includes middle name (as with some current actors and footballers, for example), surely the middle name should be in the title?

Could you have a look at the article and at the comments on both mine and Proteus' talk pages. I would like an adjudication. If you as a member of the cricket project cannot get involved due to your interest, could you please ask another admin to adjudicate. Thanks very much. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 11:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Sam. I think I had better concede this one. I hadn't looked at Tim McCann's Sussex history previously (given that Sackville was a Kent man) but I've just checked it now and there are several references to Sackville, all directly quoting contemporary sources, and all calling him Lord John Sackville in the same way that your Wisden one does. That seems to be quite conclusive so I'll gracefully concede. Thanks for your help. All the best. --BlackJack | ^{talk page} 14:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Namibian ODI cricketers

Hi there Sam. Can I assume it would be safe for me to delink those cricketers which appear at Category:Namibian ODI cricketers which don't appear at List of Namibian ODI cricketers? This has been bugging me for a while, and I thought I'd get it sorted now rather than later. Since the latter is fully comprehensive, I assume this would be a safe thing to do? Bobo. 04:10, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

And while I'm here..

The artist formerly known as Bryan Murgatroyd is now apparently billed on Cricket Archive as Gavin. Presumably we should move the page as such? Bobo. 04:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Removing categories

Sam Vimes said:
By all means remove categories like the one in Jason Bandlow - most of them look to have a way left before they can play ODIs (it's a bit of a shame they don't play in South African domestic leagues any more, hopefully the cricketing spark is still nurtured).

Will do. I've been working a tad on categorization this morning, as you can see. As for any more players in Namibian cricket period, we're probably not going to see any until November's match against the UAE at the earliest.

Gavin Murgatroyd

Sam Vimes said:
And I think I can agree about Gavin Murgatroyd too - after looking around, he's known by both first names (the Telegraph and some other sources listed him as Bryan at the World Cup), so you might want to note that in the article.

As far as I can remember, I swear I initially saw him as Bryan, and he's presumably changed his billing since.

First task, then, is to remove the categories. Then I'll note that Murgatroyd used to be named Bryan and now is named Gavin.. or something of that nature. Bobo. 11:04, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Aggers Quote

Hi, thanks for referencing some of the impasse today. However, with Aggers' quote, this was said at around 18:15 on Test Match Special. It is, in effect, unless the BBC release the footage, unreferenceable. How would I go about referencing this, as I consider the quote is necessary to the strength of the feeling that was evident that day? Cheers, M0RHI 17:58, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Aha, he also went on to call it "an incredibly sad day for test cricket" at 17:58:30UTC on Test Match Special. Just another point of information.. M0RHI 17:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your kind words of welcome. :)

JH 20:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Present for you

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		For quick responses to talks, and just generally making me feel cheerful, even in the middle of a major current event, I award you this Kindness Barnstar! M0RHI

ICC World Cricket League Division Three

I only found out about it myself earlier today. Nick at Kenya Cricket said it is: [4], and it's also mentioned on Cricket Europe in an article based on a ICC media release. [5] Andrew nixon 14:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Richard Logan

Hi, have moved the page to Richard Logan (cricketer) to avoid confusion with a couple footballers of the same name. Have fixed the links on everything except your sandbox. Markspearce

Netherland/Holland

Hi Sam,

Sure the Netherlands have played with Holland on their shirts, but for me as a Dutchman who is not form Holland, but another part of the Netherlands it is hugely annoying and frankly insulting to be called a Hollander. Furthermore 'Holland' is just wrong, it repressent all of the Netherlands and the board of control is called 'Koninklijke NEDERLANDSE Cricket Bond'. And the fact that the KNCB got it wrong in 2003 (but right in 2007), doesn't mean we are obliged to get it wrong too.

Michael Passey

That was a good spot! Thanks; I've corrected the links now. As for there not being a lot more to add, I wish I knew: playing first-class cricket at 16 but never again interests me in itself. I wonder what happened to him? Loganberry (Talk) 00:36, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Netherland/Holland

My apologies too then. I didn't realise they still played with 'Holland' as late as June, and I guess they have been playing in competitions under that name so saying they are also known as 'Holland' makes some sense. I wast just pretty pissed my edit was removed in mere seconds. Regards. Archipoeta

John Warr

Thank you for expanding and explaining the article! I've left a thank you on Talk:John Warr too for both editors who helped. TransUtopian 18:21, 6 September 2006 (UTC)