Template talk:Public art

Merger proposals

Please comment on proposals to merge {{Public art header with long notes}} into {{Public art header}} here and {{Public art row with long notes}} into {{Public art row}} here. Thanks, Ham (talk) 08:31, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Templates were merged. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:59, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata items

There is a discussion regarding this template at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Wikidata Items shown on Wikipedia?. Please leave any comments you have there to keep discussion in one place. Thryduulf (talk) 11:26, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Adding "|show_designation=no" and "|show_type=no" to the template

Hi

Please add "|show_designation=no" and "|show_type=no" to this template.

Sometime, all or most items don't have a grade? Like List of public art in Melbourne or List of public art in Coventry. Apparently, grade category for column Designation is used for the UK and not in other places in the world. Like List of public art in Aarhus, List of public art in Shanghai, List of public art in Victoria, British Columbia, and List of public art in Brooklyn. In that case, as you can see, the column is useless and its presence looks odd.

And "Type" parameter could be confusing. Some items could be both a sculpture and/or a statue. (Please check "Driver & Wipers Memorial" and "King George V" on List of public art in Melbourne)

Cheers Shkuru Afshar (talk) 07:26, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I can see why these columns might not be needed in all circumstances. However we need to be careful when making them optional. In the current version a blank or undefined |designation= parameter results in an empty column. In order to make this column optional we would need to make an undefined |designation= parameter result in no column at all. So this might mean checking all 228 uses of this template to make sure |designation= is defined, or there might be another way of doing it, e.g. |designation=no or something like that — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Another suggestion: create Template:Public art row2 by copying from this template and adapting as needed — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:29, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Why creating a new template? Why not just adding these new simple features to the current template? It is significantly less confusing if there is just a single template. Shkuru Afshar (talk) 11:10, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I can create a sample on the test page and after approval, copy it to the main page. Shkuru Afshar (talk) 11:38, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I have tried to explain why I think it will not work, but go ahead with the test case then we can talk more — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:45, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I am going to check every single 228 uses of this template to make sure columns |designation= and |type= are defined in those tables that are filled with values in these columns. I do it by adding |designation=yes and |type=yes to Public art header section.

The following is when I tried |designation=no and |type=no and it didn't work. Shkuru Afshar

{{Public art header|show_architect=no|show_material=yes|show_dimensions=no|show_owner=no|show_wikidata=no|designation=no|type=no}}

{{Public art row
| image       = 
| commonscat  = 
| subject     = ''<nowiki/>''
| location    = 
| coordinates = 
| date        = 
| artist      = 
| material    = 
| notes       = 
}}

{{End}}

Image	Title / subject	Location and coordinates	Date	Artist / designer	Type	Material	Designation	Notes

. Shkuru Afshar (talk) 00:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Good luck checking 228 pages! You should check that the |designation= and |type= parameters are defined in every case, either blank (if empty) or non-blank (if used). You do not need to change any of the header templates because we can default them to "yes". — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:46, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ:You mean I should add these 2 parameters to rows of cases in articles like List of public art in Dublin even though they are not used in any cases? Or I should make sure they exist in all cases of articles that are using these 2 parameters and for some cases that are blank or not uses? Shkuru Afshar (talk) 11:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

You will need to check that these parameters are used in every article where you have "Designation" and "Type" in the header row. If it has a value then |type=Relief sculpture or whatever. If it has no value then |type=. This will tell the template to include a column for type even if there is no value. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Just one example — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:01, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ:I added "type" and "designation" to all tables that use these parameter on some rows. So, if we turn them off on other tables that don't use these parameters, there should be no problem. (Please correct me, if I am wrong).

Cheers. Shkuru Afshar (talk) 01:57, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Okay we should be okay to move to the next stage: disable these columns unless the parameter is used. I have put some suggested code in Template:Public art row/sandbox but please check it before deploying — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ:I checked your edits on {{Public art/row/testcases}} but it didn't work (check {{Public art/row/testcases#Sandbox}}. The information is shifted to the left). Then, I added show_designation and show_type needed to {{Public art/header/sandbox}}. It now doesn't show designation show if they are set on NO. But the rows looks disrupted, even if I add blank |designation= and |type= to the rows. Shkuru Afshar (talk) 12:13, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Okay I'll check — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:15, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Think I've got it working — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:52, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ:Yes. It does. Thank you. I am going to copy of row and header sandboxes to the main template at check how it functions. It should be fine. However, if it doesn't work properly, I revert it immediately. Shkuru Afshar (talk) 10:56, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ:Hi. Sorry about that again. The template works fine on most tables. However, there are some problems in some tables. I provided and example on {{Public art/row/testcases#Category and shift}} from William Bloye article. Other examples

• List of public art in Dublin
• List of public art in County Donegal
• List of statues of English and British royalty in London (House of Tudor table)
• List of public art in the Royal Borough of Greenwich (Greenwich table)
• List of public art in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets (Isle of Dogs - Canary Wharf table)
• List of public art in the London Borough of Lewisham
• List of public art in the London Borough of Lambeth
• List of public art in the London Borough of Croydon (Croydon Airport table)
• List of public art in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames

Shkuru Afshar (talk) 21:44, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I fixed (in the sandbox) the issue of where it was showing the class in some columns. For the other issues, I think there is a misunderstanding of how the parameters should be used. If a column (e.g. type) is being used, then that parameter must be defined in every row (whether blank or not). If a column is not being used, then that parameter should not be used in any row. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:18, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ: The whole template is working fine. However, there is an issue that I don't understand why it is happening. If you check Template:Public art/row/testcases#dunno and n/a templates usage, you see there is a problem while "dunno" and "n/a" templates are used. Shkuru Afshar (talk) 03:20, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ:Hi. I am still waiting for you. Thanks. Shkuru Afshar (talk) 09:29, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I've managed to fix dunno and n/a, but with some horrible code that I don't really like using. Please check again — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:43, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ:All articles look fine. Apart from 4 articles of

• List of public art in the City of London
• List of public art in the London Borough of Camden
• List of public art in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames
• List of public art in Edinburgh

Here is an example: Template:Public art/row/testcases#List of public art in the City of London

I tried to find and rectify the issue. However, I couldn't. It seems nothing is wrong with the template. But I can't find the issue in the article.

Cheers Shkuru Afshar (talk) 09:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean the links at the bottom of the page where the template is linking instead of transcluding? This is because of Category:Pages where post-expand include size is exceeded. Basically there are too many templates on one page. Hopefully it will not occur on the article itself. The testcases is getting a bit overloaded! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ:Yes. I mean that.

If you copy the code that I added to testcase page to the actual article and preview it, you see it shows the same issue. But, it doesn't happen to the current template.

@MSGJ:Hi. I am still waiting for you. Shkuru Afshar (talk) 01:01, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I looked at List of public art in the City of London and the post-expand include size is already on 1,814,737 out of 2,097,152 so very close to the limit. So I'm not sure what can be done except to consider splitting the article somehow. I've done a lot of work on List of crossings of the Danube, which also has a lot of table rows produced by template, but the PEIS is much smaller (310,287). — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:05, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ and Shkuru Afshar: I'm the main contributor to the City of London, Camden and Edinburgh lists. I could split List of public art in the London Borough of Camden into individual lists for the former boroughs of Hampstead, Holborn and St Pancras and List of public art in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames into ones for the former boroughs of Barnes, Richmond and Twickenham. This would be equivalent to how two public art lists already exist for former boroughs of the City of Westminster: List of public art in Paddington and List of public art in St Marylebone. There's no intuitive way of splitting the City of London up geographically as it's only one square mile, but I could split architectural sculpture off into a separate list. I could split Edinburgh into the city centre and the rest. The changes to List of public art in the City of London would be more time-consuming than the others because they would involve removing individual items from most sections instead of moving whole sections to new lists.

I'm also working on an overhaul of List of statues of English and British royalty in London in my userspace, for which it would be very helpful to make the |type= and |designation= parameters of {{Public art/row}} optional, especially the first because all the works covered are of one type (statues). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ham II (talk • contribs) 06:52, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. I think we need to investigate further why the PEIS is so high on these articles and see if there are other ways it can be reduced. Perhaps I will post at WP:VPT for advice — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ: Thanks; that would save me a lot of work if there were other ways. Could other templates which are heavily used on those pages, e.g. {{coord}}, {{n/a}}, {{sort}} or {{sortname}}, be the reason they exceed the post-expand limit? Ham II (talk) 13:48, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

@Ahecht has kindly had a look at the article and taken some measures to improve the PEIS footprint. Might be worth trying the sandbox version there now — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:31, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ and Ahecht: Thank you for your help with this. Unfortunately, trying out {{Public art/row/sandbox}} on the City of London list didn't work. I could go back to my earlier plan of splitting up the four affected lists. Ham II (talk) 21:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)