Talk:Operation Kita

Naval Victory or a successful naval operation

Doesn't this rank as a "successful naval operation" like the Channel Dash of Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and Prince Eugen rather than a "naval victory" (which implies a significant clash of forces with a victor)? --184.2.231.10 (talk) 12:58, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Name of operation

Japanese Wikipedia, at least, refers to this as "Operation Hoku" (hoku being the on'yomi, or alternate reading, for the character 北). Brutannica (talk) 16:43, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Novice users like me cannot change it, while nowadays literally everyone in western-language communities are using the wrong name. The Japanese pronunciation is indeed "Hoku-Go Sakusen", as Brutannica mentioned above. Please, someone with the authority to change the title, please do so ASAP, before even more people get the wrong idea. Vcharng (talk) 15:40, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm a Japanese and support the above name change. It's ridiculous to see a featured article having a wrong name. --218.229.170.114 (talk) 07:20, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree, and have made this change in accordance with this consensus. All Japanese sources (and ironically this very same article, in the first line) list the operation's name as: "Hoku-gō sakusen", not "Kita-gō sakusen"; with "Kita" being an obvious misspelling by westerners erroneously using the kun'yomi reading of the character "北", where the Japanese use the on'yomi reading. Such a gross translation error being used as the title of an article is unacceptable. BUZZLIGHTYEAR99 (talk) 18:33, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

This is the English language Wikipedia, so the names used in Japanese sources is irrelevant. We follow the terminology used in English language sources per WP:COMMONNAME, even if the terminology is mistaken for any reason. Searching Google books for Operation Hoku returns no hits at all [1], so I can't see how this is a viable name for an English Language Wikipedia article. Searching for Operation Kita returns lots of hits [2], indicating that it is likely the common name. As such, I've moved the article back. I've also removed the unsourced claim that 'kita' is a translation error - a source saying this is needed, not a reference to a Japanese language work. If you'd like to pursue this further, please start a requested move - this is a featured article and you are seeking to adopt a name not in line with WP:COMMONNAME. Nick-D (talk) 09:05, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Four people have agreed that the name of this article is, from an objective standpoint, incorrect and based on an erroneous translation. This talk page subsection has been open for eight years, without a single word opposition being voiced. If you want to crawl out of the woodwork to oppose this change ex post facto, YOU may start a requested move. Consensus has already been reached over nearly a decade of discussion regarding this article's name. BUZZLIGHTYEAR99 (talk) 19:42, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve with personal abuse? There obviously isn't a consensus here given I'm disputing it (I developed the article to FA standard and am familiar with the sourcing, while you don't seem to have ever edited the article before starting move warring over its title), and you have been unable to provide any sources at all that demonstrate that 'Operation Hoku' is used in English language sources. None of the editors who have posted above have provided any such sources either. The article has been stable as 'Operation Kita' since 2011 and is a FA, so a RM is needed per WP:PCM. Starting a RM to move the article back to its stable and sourced title is absurd, and not in line with WP:BRD - you were bold, you were reverted, and you need to discuss. Please start a RM now, and please provide English language sources to support this proposal. Please also stop adding an unsourced claim that 'Operation Kita' is a miss-translation - this may very well be the case, but a source explicitly stating this is needed, as this is a FA. I will report you for edit warring if this conduct continues - again, please follow WP:BRD and start a RM. Nick-D (talk) 09:21, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Further, as noted above I'm unable to find English language sources that refer to this as 'Operation Hoku'. Sources that use 'Operation Kita' in addition to those currently cited include:

• The Naval Siege of Japan 1945: War Plan Orange Triumphant (a recent and comprehensive work on naval operations in this period of the war)
• Warship 2018 (a well regarded naval journal)

As noted above, 'Operation Kita' may very well be a miss translation. However, it appears to be the most commonly used name for this event in English language works so is the best title for the article per WP:COMMONNAME. Operation Sportpalast, which I've also developed to FA is similar - it appears to have actually been called 'Operation Nordmeer' by the Germans, but English language sources call it 'Sportpalast' so that's the article title - it's technically wrong, but is the common name. Nick-D (talk) 00:13, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

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