Talk:Killer (philately)

Cancellation (mail)

Do we need this as a seperate article or would it not be best merged into Cancellation (mail)? I put this question, because I cannot see the article expanding much past the stub stage?--StampOnIt (talk) 11:49, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree, this should be merged.--Dmol (talk) 23:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Killer

Here is a definition which seems accurate to me:

Killer: A cancellation that shows no place, date or time of mailing, but which is heavy enough to prevent the stamp's reuse. Fconaway (talk) 07:35, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Based both on my experience and on this this Linn's articles, your definition on the killer is too narrow. ww2censor (talk) 18:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Judging by the controversy this small article has attracted (already debated on Ww2censor's talk page), I think the article should not be merged.Maidonian (talk) 15:02, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

I would not really call it a controversy, just an airing of views. There seems like enough material, especially if expanded somewhat for it to remain a stand-alone article. ww2censor (talk) 15:31, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Discussion copied from my talk page

Thanks for adding the image to Killer (philately) but I wouldn't say this really was a 'killer'. I think it is a barred numeral cancel? As I understand it a killer is a particularly obscuring and heavy cancel like the second link on the page. If you agree do you have any images of that kind? Thanks. Maidonian (talk) 22:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Numeral cancels are killers, intended to obliterate the stamp so that it could not be reused, but some do identify the town/place of posting. When duplex cancels were adopted the numeral portion did the same job. If you think killers only covers the handstamp portions that are just bars, I think you are being too narrow in your definition. This Linn's page is pretty clear that four-bar killers are only one type of killer, and that numerals and other types of heavy cancellation are killers. I am getting a library loan of Fundamentals of Philately next week, but will be away for a week, and maybe there is a clearer definition in there. As I am more a postal history guy, I am not sure I have any references in my own library. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 23:06, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the term is fairly flexible depending on which country you are talking about. I suppose my point is that as there is only one image on the page it should exemplify the term and something a lot heavier that obscures most of the design would do that better. Thanks. Maidonian (talk) 23:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Your point is well taken that some countries may have a narrower view than others but, when looking for an image, I could not find one of a four-bar killer and we should definitely try to add one. So, for now, there is one image but I am sure we will find some other appropriate ones. ww2censor (talk) 00:01, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

We have some wonderfully ugly examples among the "All India" obliterators. I'll look for a nice crisp one! Fconaway (talk) 07:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

That sounds good. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 14:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

The 10-barred square cancellation
used by the Russo-Afghanistan Boundary Commission 28 March 1885

Here's a cover with the ten-barred square killer (Renouf Type 20) used by the Russo-Afghanistan Boundary Commission. This was applied on March 28, 1885 at the Lieutenant Governor's camp, in the tense days before the Battle of Kushka and the Panjdeh Incident (of March 30). At the time, Lord Dufferin and Abdur Rahman were in conference in Rawalpindi, when war with Tsarist Russia seemed imminent. Gladstone was determined to settle the boundary by negotiation. Also, I have other covers and a variety of single stamps, which could be used. Fconaway (talk) 05:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

That is a nice example of a stand alone killer. We could also use a killer with separate town stamp to show how towns were identified and a combo killer. All of these are shown on the Linn's page linked in the external links section. Still needs some work and references. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 14:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

(outdent)copied from my talk page, so others can see the discussion. ww2censor (talk) 15:31, 18 May 2009 (UTC)