Talk:Hawkman

SHB image

Robinson's image perfectly portraits the character. Besides, is the cover for Hawkman v4 #1. Why changing to that Kubert's image? Just because it's Kubert's? I can't see a reason. Lesfer ☎ 13:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

1) more current image of the character

What do you mean? The character hasn't changed a thing since 1st issue.

2) A better profile of the character

Well, this is a matter of opinion. I think Robinson's image portraits the character in a much better way. The image cannot be changed just because one single person thinks yellow is better than green. Until we reach a consensus, the previous image remains. Lesfer ☎ 19:14, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Why remove Zauriel?

I think it's interesting to the audience that Grant Morrison intended his angel character to be the new Hawkman, but was prevented from actually giving Zauriel that name by the editors. Morrison went so far as to mount a half-hearted fan campaign, wishing in interviews that the fans would "call him Hawkman anyway."

I think this is also informative as to the tangled history of the character and DC's views on Hawkman at the time. Yet it was deleted without comment.

Any reason why Zauriel shouldn't receive a brief mention in this page?

I can't think of one, especially since right here you bring up specific reasons why the info should be included (well done). All I can think of is that you should dredge up specific references, in case someone wants to remove the info once again. dfg 16:59, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

A source for this Zauriel/Hawkman-wouldbe thing would be nice. And this kind of info should be added in a Trivia section, instead of creating a Zauriel section -- as he is not a Hawkman. Lesfer 19:28, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I've got sources I can link to. I'm disinclined to create a "trivia" section just for one entry - you really need 3 points before creating a bulleted list - and I'm similarly disinclined to manufacture additional trivia just to fill out a new section.

Besides, I think it works perfectly in line with all the other Hawkman created around that time, and the fact that one of the most powerful creators in comics created him as a Hawkman seems significant enough to me to override the fact that the went right up to the edge but didn't use the name, especially when the story of why he didn't ties in with other elements in the article.

So what do we say? Should I re-create, with supporting links? --Chancemichaels 15:41, 28 February 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

So, no objections to adding the Zauriel section back in, limited strictly to Morrison's plans to make him the new Hawkman, DC's objections to the same and how they related to the convoluted continuity that had built up around the character, with citations from both Morrison and DC? If no objection, I'm going to do just that. --Chancemichaels 05:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Sounds good to me. Any time there's 'real-life' information about a character, rather than more fictionally biographic stuff, it should be added to the article. dfg 15:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. The quote about "fans calling him Hawkman anyway" comes from the Wizard special, IIRC. Just ordered a new copy to confirm the quote, until I can I'm leaving it out. Will add it later if I can cite. ---Chancemichaels 15:02, 19 March 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Sourced the Morrison quote, so I'm adding it now. --Chancemichaels 12:25, 26 March 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Carter Hall Page

I'm a big fan of the Carter Hall Hawkman. Would anyone have any complaints if I started a "Carter Hall" article with specific details on this character only. I'd reference and add links to this page in terms of issues of retro-con. where necessary, but I'd like to avoid issues of retro con and present a new page with a straight forward, chronological biography of Carter Hall. Any objections? Bhissong 12:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Well, this page has both biographies: the original and the retconned one. I just think that over the years this character got way too complicated to keep more than one page dedicated to him. IMO, we should keep only one article in order to have the whole history and mess explained in only one place. —Lesfer ^(talk/@) 15:38, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, although your arguement proves my point in wanting to add character specific articles separate from the main one. Because Hawkman's history is SO convoluted, one single entry results in a confusing amalgamation of descriptions and explanatory notes. I was thinking more along the lines of what has been done with the Captain Marvel (Marvel Comics) page. Because there are so many characters named "Captain Marvel," the page provides brief descriptions of each "Captain Marvel", and then provides a link to the individual characters using their real names. That way, a person can look at the "Captain Marvel" page for an overview, but then click on Mahr Vehl (the Ultimate Captain Marvel) if they're interested in finding out much more about that particular character. But, that's just my opinion.

Bhissong 16:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC)bhissong

But those are four different Captain Marvels. Four different characters. Here we have the Pre-Crisis Carter Hall and the Post-Crisis Carter Hall; the Silver Age Katar Hol and the Post-Hawkworld Katar Hol; and yet Fel Andar. See what a mess? Take a look at Carter Hall for instance. We have two different versions for a single persona. Way too complicated.
I think Captain Marvel article is brilliantly built. But in order to do the same in here, we cannot limit a Carter Hall article to a single version, it would be a half-job. We should do the complete job or leave this article the way it is currently presented.
I'll ask for more opinions and suggestions at WikiProject Comics and add a wikilink to our discussion in here. —Lesfer ^(talk/@) 18:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Really, it's not worth it. It was just a suggestion because I thought it might be fun to do a Carter Hall page. And since each incarnation is SO different from the last, they do in fact seem like different characters. So, I thought a nice, detailed Carter Hall page (featuring his Golden Age exploits plus those most recently chronicled in Vol. 4) would be worth while. And if someone else wanted to do a Katar Hol page and another wanted to do a detailed Hawkworld page, they could link it to this one too. But if it's a big issue, then I say leave it the way it is now. Not worth worrying about, really. More to life and all.... Bhissong 20:31, 9 May 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Straight to the point: I think it is a good idea to create sub-articles (Hall, Hol and Andar). But is has to be done in the same way it was on Green Lantern's, Atom's and Flash's articles -- Publication history (and therefore the explanation to all the mess) is kept in here while fictional biographies are placed on each character article. —Lesfer ^(talk/@) 02:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

It's done. Take a look and, please, feel free to contribute. —Lesfer ^(talk/@) 04:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

That looks really great. Brilliant job. I look forward to adding info. to the Carter Hall page (e.g., descriptions of past lives, exploits from vol. 4, etc.). I didn't mean to make a big deal about it, but I must say I really like the way it's layed out. I think others will find interesting things to add to the individual Hawkman articles as well (especially if one has a favorite). Cool. And thanks. Bhissong 10:42, 10 May 2006 (UTC)bhissong

Template

The intro says the character was co-created by artist Dennis Neville. Later, the article says "His adventures were memorably drawn first by Sheldon Moldoff, who modeled Hawkman's costume on..."

The term "first adventures" and the statement that Moldoff designed the costume makes it seem as if Moldoff co-created the character. This needs to be clarified. -- Tenebrae 13:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. ;) —Lesfer ^(talk/@) 15:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Hawkmen

Is there any way to separate the pretenders to the throne - including Zauriel, who never actually used the name in print - from the main Hawkmen characters? The format now is confusing, giving minor throwaway characters and retcons equal weight with Carter and Katar. --Chancemichaels 16:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Uhm, no, that's why Carter and Katar have their own articles. Each of the characters deserve their spot in this article. Kusonaga 17:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

current status?

is hawkman currently alive or dead in the DCU at this time? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.134.4 (talk • contribs)

He's currently MIA. —Lesfer ^(t/c/@) 16:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hawkman3.JPG

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Neutral Point of View

I don't think that this statement represents a neutral point of view:

Hawkman represents perhaps the best example of DC comics trying to maintan a "brand-name-character" who was inconcieved at the start, and inspired at-best lukewarm public interest, despite many attempts to recreate the character. See also Aquaman and Wonder Woman

Any problem with it being removed? Mookie89 10:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

reincarnation not quite true after all?

I just watched the Justice League Unlimited episode "Shadow of the Hawk" and clearly at the end of the episode, it shows the coffin of the two lovebird mummies that died together - so why does this article say that the theory is true? The article says "Eventually it was discovered that the Shadow Thief is an independent fragment of Hall's addled psyche and that the reincarnation theory was likely true." And before this it says it is not stated definitively that Carter he was telling the truth - we see that he was in fact wrong, and that the absorbacron just made him think these things - it even says it is discovered later that the shadow thief was a part of Hawkman's mind - oh wait... though, upon reading the Shadow Thief wikipedia article, I see that the reincarnation in the story happened it seems, and Hawkman is the reincarnation of Katar Hol, but Hawkgirl was not the reincarnation of Chay-ara. necessarily anyway- possibly some clean-up of that paragraph is required to make this clear. ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 05:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

fictional?

Isn't it a bit weird to say someone is a fictional superhero? As opposed to real non-fictional superheroes? 201.1.186.242 (talk) 01:40, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Merge all articles into "Hawkman"?

Do these characters have independent, retrievable sourced notability beyond all being "Hawkman" characters? I'm not saying Hawkman isn't a notable superhero, by no means am I saying that, but the main interesting real world thing about the character is how he's been written over the years -- in the case of Hawkman, that's the continuity fuckups and retcons. Besides all these reconciling all Hawkmen as one character, the interest has been the other "non-Hawkman" Hawkmen introduced by other writers to get around the embargo on the character. In my opinion, Katar Hol and Carter Hall and whatnot should all merge into "Hawkman" ; the main body of the article should be a chronologically-sorted publication history, the prose of which more carefully traces the more complex path the depiction of "Hawkman" has had in various forms over the years in DC Comics. Does anyone have good reason to disagree?~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 12:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

nth or ninth metal?

The article has both "nth metal" and "ninth metal". I presume that one of those is a mistake? --Noleander (talk) 07:03, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

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How to make Hawkman page make sense.

After doing some research on the character and using my experience on the Doctor Fate page, I think there's a way of really simplifying the various discrepancies with the Hawkman page and character to make it far easier for readers to understand the character despite the convoluted history. It will take some reworking and since this is a more highly-profiled character, I hesitate on simply doing it without first expressing some things:

First off, the Hawkman page itself should primarily focus on what I would call "Ktar's reincarnation line" based upon the 2019 series making the reincarnation more linear but explaining why you can have concurrent Hawkmen running about to help explain away DC's back-and-forth position of the character. An image should reflect the idea that Hawkman is a reincarnated warrior and superhero. An image such as this would do much better than a random image of the character from a cover. Also, I would put Fel Andar and Charley Parker/Ch'lar Andar under "Other versions" with their true names as a sub-heading and a more concise explanation. Fel Andar really has only a little over 50 appearances and acts as a "stand-in" for a character so it shouldn't be too difficult. I would, however, also utilize any images that denotes both character's different appearances.

Secondly, I would ultimately keep the Carter Hall and Katar Hol pages instead of merging them. The main Hawkman page, however, should hold all the information regarding the his past life as Khufu, Nighthawk, Catar-Ol, etc. Instead, the Carter and Katar pages should detail all the information and happenings regarding that "lifetime". While I understand it is the Carter Hall stories that detail this information, I think it's easier if the Hawkman page holds all the essential information about the character's past life and the Cater/Katar page explains things regarding the character in that respective incarnation. It's really odd to see the Hawkman page only be a redirect for other pages.

The articles, altogether in it's various facets, also needs to address the confusing aspects of the character. For example, the Carter/Katar interchangeably use each of the incarnation's name as an alias and share a similar design more times than naught so relying on naming and visual design can be misleading. Instead of a "Fictional character biography", I would replace it with a "Character overview" or "Characterization" heading, note what I just said more formally, and include a sub-heading of both Katar and Carter with a main page redirect, and brief explanations on the difference of the character. One version is a human archaeologist and another is an alien law enforcement officer (regardless of his past origins as both pure Thanagarian and a hybrid). Katar was the one noted as the "Savage Hawkman" and was characterized more aggressive in the New 52 for example. That would also be the place to talk about love interests, with Shiera Hall (nee Sanders) aka the first Hawkgirl being Carter Hall's love interest and Shayera Hol character being Katar's love interest alongside the later Shayera Thal from Post-Flashpoint onward whereas the Pre-52 Shayera Thal was a partner with a different set of histories (which should be discussed in the Hawkwoman page),

And finally, there's no reason for Zauriel to be part of the page the way he is. His information should be somewhere in the publication history.JayAaerow (talk) 01:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)