Talk:Bashar al-Assad

is he a politician???

Why is this dictator even called "politician"? Was he elected? Was the election free and fair? Dear wikipedia, why don't you refer hitler, stalin or mao as a "politician"? I mean the "d-word" is so rude... 92.249.214.251 (talk) 13:03, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

his dad was made leader by a military coup and since bashar came to power if you talked ONE WORD bad about him, your children will get poisoned and you will never see their face again, and you would be killed or forced in the army. 2001:1970:55E8:7F00:60F6:D4AD:9672:10DE (talk) 19:41, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

These are the opening sentence of the Wikipedia articles on Hitler, Stalin and Mao:

"Adolf Hitler (German: [ˈaːdɔlf ˈhɪtlɐ] ; 20 April 1889 – 30 April 1945) was an Austrian-born German politician..."

Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin (born Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili; 18 December [O.S. 6 December] 1878 – 5 March 1953) was a Soviet politician..."

Mao Zedong (26 December 1893 – 9 September 1976) was a Chinese politician..."

What's your point? DeCausa (talk) 20:50, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, those three were in politics, before becoming dictators and Bashar inhereted presidency from his father. Imperator159 (talk) 10:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Mao Tse-Tung came to power with a civil war. What's your point? Deus vult fratres! (talk) 13:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Responsible for 90% of deaths

this is conjecture and unverifiable. A UK based source when the UK and its allies supporters the anti assad movement. Can't be relied upon and is an unnecessary addition of information..I'm sure the number of deaths alone is sufficient rather than attributing blame(which is unverifiable) 2A04:4A43:4C3F:D0F7:0:0:29D8:CD07 (talk) 04:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, but unfortunately sources considered reliable by Wikipedia parrot the SNHR's figures so we have no point but to operate within those constraints.

Their methodology is flawed:

https://snhr.org/public_html/wp-content/pdf/english/SNHR_Methodology_en.pdf

Cases of uncertainty in deciding whether an individual is classified as a civilian or a combatant: In case of the absence of conclusive evidence of the victim’s status and of resulting uncertainty over his/her classification as a civilian or a combatant, we register him/her as a civilian.

Skornezy (talk) 02:48, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Fear not, you two. Now that the government has been overthrown, and secret regime archives will be opened, we will be able to know the full extent of horrors the Assad regime has committed over 13 years - from their own data. --Dynamo128 (talk) 01:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I also say that it is not a reliable, unbiased source AlbrechtVonWallenstein (talk) 14:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

SNHR is not UK-based (maybe you’re thinking of the very different SOHR). SNHR is highly reliable and we attribute it anyway. BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:18, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The word "dictator" in the lead

I noticed that the word "dictator" to characterize him is often placed in the introduction and then removed. What consensus could we have? Should we put it or is it not necessary? FaChol (talk) 23:03, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

I have no doubt that he is a dictator, this is not the question I am asking. I am asking if a consensus can be reached on whether or not to write that in the introduction. For example, Putin is characterized as a "Russian politician and former intelligence officer". Should the word "dictator" also be included on his article? FaChol (talk) 23:12, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd be interested to hear people's arguments for inclusion, otherwise I think it should be removed. We don't tend to use "dictator" elsewhere in wikivoice, and it seems a recent introduction (or vandalism) to this article. We don't describe Hafez al-Assad as a dictator. GhostOfNoMan 22:17, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

And the lead already mentions the characterisation of Assad, by academics and others, as a dictator, or of his regime as authoritarian. That's preferable to "politician and dictator" as the opening sentence. GhostOfNoMan 22:57, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I say no because pages for multiple other dictators do not have the word "dictator" in the introduction. See Putin, Saddam, Gaddafi, Castro, etc. Setarip (talk) 18:26, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

The wiki pages Kim Jong Un and Xi Jinping does not use the word 'dictator' as the introductory of a person must be adhered to the official status not the description so the word 'dictator' should not be used in the Assad page. Mhaot (talk) 08:30, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Murderer category

Should we keep the Category of Mass murderers for him? 2600:100C:A218:9A7B:BC5E:E0AD:C8F9:553 (talk) 15:31, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh, also.

A person with excessive trust in friends (or, alleged friends).

His "friend". Skillfully armed mercenaries! Russian-speaking mujahideen.

To support ISIS. (an info (from NATO Headquarters, Brussels) How Bashar al-Assad ( president of Etat , political Liader ) could be so wrong?!

::: ( Allahu Akbar!)195.244.167.108 (talk) 18:04, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

End of term ?

Haven't seen a source saying he is "officially" overthrown. There is still, somehow, a state. Saddam Hussein's wiki page lists his departure as president as April 9th, the day Baghdad was captured/liberated. Damascus hasn't been captured yet. Remikipedia (talk) 02:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Someone is spamming 167.142.48.84 (talk) 02:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree. That December 8, 2024 end of term needs a citation or it needs to be reverted. Mosi Nuru (talk) 02:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

As of half an hour ago Damascus has been captured. 128.114.255.198 (talk) 03:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Great, provide a citation. Mosi Nuru (talk) 03:09, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Mosi Nuru

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/syria-homs-latest-damascus-rebels-1.7404449

https://apnews.com/article/syria-assad-sweida-daraa-homs-hts-qatar-7f65823bbf0a7bd331109e8dff419430

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdd2r2191o

https://aje.io/pq3n3i?update=3371087 SatelliteOrbit (talk | contribs) 03:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-celebrate-captured-homs-set-sights-damascus-2024-12-07/ OnHereAlot (talk) 03:38, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

From a cursory glance at these sources, I don't see anything saying his term has ended or he's resigned. The fact that a head of state travels outside the city limits of his/her capital city does not mean he/she ceases to be head of state. Chetsford (talk) 03:39, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

https://x.com/Alhadath_Brk/status/1865587913817305454

both rebel and govt military leaders are declaring the end of the regime. might not be enough to edit yet, but we definitely don't need to wait for Assad himself to say something or "resign" when he's been deposed. 71.183.73.183 (talk) 03:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

@Mosi Nuru

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/syrian-insurgents-suburbs-of-damascus/

https://abcnews.go.com/International/syrian-rebels-claimed-4-cities-24-hours-now/story?id=116562929

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/07/syria-rebels-have-reached-damascus-suburbs-insurgent-commander-says

consensus among sources that assad is out of syria, syrian govt denies assad has fled syria, and that Damascus is in rebel hands SatelliteOrbit (talk | contribs) 03:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Syrian prime minister went on a speech to announce that the regime is officially downhttps://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/syria-civil-war-damascus/card/syrian-prime-minister-ready-to-cooperate-gG7okAui3MTS7vJA6oHR RayCh716 (talk) 03:55, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

As of 10:30 UTC on the 8th: Syrian rebels declared President Bashar al-Assad's ouster after seizing control of Damascus on Sunday, ending his family's iron-fisted rule after more than 13 years of civil war in a seismic moment for the Middle East. (...) Syria's army command notified officers on Sunday that Assad's rule had ended, a Syrian officer who was informed of the move told Reuters. But the Syrian army later said it was continuing operations against "terrorist groups" in the key cities of Hama and Homs and in Deraa countryside.

(I will say that this article did move too fast for sure and still might be moving too fast.) --Super Goku V (talk) 10:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Might’ve moved too fast but it’s clear now. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-celebrate-captured-homs-set-sights-damascus-2024-12-07/ BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:21, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Protection

I have applied a six-hour WP:BLUELOCK to this article due to several disruptive edits and the apparent occurrence of off-WP coordination in furtherance of that disruption. During this period, non-EC editors can request edits using WP:EDITREQUEST. Chetsford (talk) 03:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

what evidence do you have of this? Cannolorosa (talk) 03:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

There are so many edits happening because of the situation in Syria, I know someone wrote his plane had crashed which has not been reported. TheFellaVB (talk) 03:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

There's new reportage, only one outlet that doesn't look kinda sketch though. Odds are Reuters will print the allegations soon.

Report I mentioned from Sri Lanka Guardian:

https://slguardian.org/breaking-plane-allegedly-carrying-syrian-president-assad-crashes/ Diogenes Redivivus (talk) 05:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2024

Change

... who served as the president of Syria since 2000

to:

... who has served as the president of Syria since 2000

TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 03:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The sentence you wanted changed isn't present in the article in that way anymore. cyberdog958^Talk 03:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

The request had already been fulfilled. TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 01:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Should we change this to past tense

It seems that the Syrian regime has fallen, and there are reports that he has left the nation. Do you think we should change this to past tense. IdahoanLover (talk) 03:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-celebrate-captured-homs-set-sights-damascus-2024-12-07/

By all accounts the regime has ended. This would be most appropriate. 2806:290:881F:A7AC:E9FA:B5D:B0DD:3810 (talk) 03:44, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes to past tense BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Intro update

At the very least the intro should describe the collapse of his rule over the last two weeks more than just saying rebels launched an offensive. john k (talk) 03:51, 8 December 2024 (UTC).

Agreed, but a lot of stuff has been developing very quickly in this situation. I don’t think it will be long until we have proper sources. LycheeDragonLoverBACKUP (talk) 03:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Protection

I have added a WP:SILVERLOCK to the Talk page for this article for six hours due to a fast-moving series of violations of our WP:BLP policy by IP editors. The BLP policy applies equally to Talk pages as mainspace. Any other Administrator should feel free to lift this protection at any time if they feel it's no longer necessary, or was never necessary in the first place. Chetsford (talk) 03:53, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Question

Should we make an article on the remnants of the Ba'ath Syria, and the remaining army in Latakia? PopularGames (talk) 04:05, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Lede should be changed

He's been deposed. He has vanished. So, can he really be called Field Marshall still?Dogru144 (talk) 04:57, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

He left syria probably by fleeing

https://apnews.com/article/syria-assad-sweida-daraa-homs-hts-qatar-7f65823bbf0a7bd331109e8dff419430 Wikiwaki6969 (talk) 05:04, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Afaik rank doesn't usually get stripped automatically for cowardice. I could see in future days a transitional government demoting him either in absentia or posthumously but for the moment it should probably stay as is. Maybe update for leaving the state, though. Diogenes Redivivus (talk) 05:13, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Please add new section

add section of bashar al assad regime ending. He has fleed from syria facing rebels today. Rebels was for 11 days. After 11 days. Al assad has fleed to Iraq today. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-celebrate-captured-homs-set-sights-damascus-2024-12-07/ Wikiwaki6969 (talk) 05:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Ditto. The PM declared ready to hand reins of government. This page currently is totally obsolete. https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/syrian-troops-withdraw-south-country-rush-defend-homs-116552588 Dogru144 (talk) 05:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Cannot get more obvious than this: Reuters, 11:46 pm 12/7/24 EST 'Syrian army command tells officers that Assad's rule has ended, officer says' https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-celebrate-captured-homs-set-sights-damascus-2024-12-07/Dogru144 (talk) 05:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The Prime Minister: Ready to cooperate for a new government: Wall Street Journal 'Syrian Prime Minister: Ready to Cooperate' https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/syria-civil-war-damascus/card/syrian-prime-minister-ready-to-cooperate-gG7okAui3MTS7vJA6oHR Assad's authority is null. The above references should make this obvious. Dogru144 (talk) 05:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Linking the start of the offensive to Assad's rejection of an Erdoğan diplomatic initiative

The section on the 2024 offensive could benefit from adding context that links the start of the offensive to Al-Assad's rejection of a diplomatic initiative from Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. References are:

(1) https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-erdogan-backs-rebel-offensive-syria

(2) https://www.politico.eu/article/tayyip-erdogan-aleppo-abbas-araghchi-hts-lebanon-hezbollah-syria-bashar-assad-forces-aleppo/

(3) https://thesoufancenter.org/intelbrief-2024-december-2/

Suggested text:

Planning by anti-Assad forces for an offensive against Aleppo began in late 2023 but were delayed by Turkish objections.(2, 3) Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan sought negotiations with the al-Assad government, to "determine Syria’s future together," but received a negative response.(1) Turkey lifted its objections and the anti-Assad forces began what started as a limited offensive against the Aleppo countryside on 27 November 2023.(1, 3 and the [2024 Syrian opposition offensives] article) ScottWade56 (talk) 06:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

This might be too detailed for this article. Maybe at Fall of the Assad regime instead? BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Agree with suggestion; have made this change to Fall of the Assad regime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ScottWade56 (talk • contribs) 02:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Is he still the President?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/07/middleeast/syria-rebels-homs-damascus-assad-intl/index.html

It looks like he might have been deposed. I'm not 100% sure, but I think he might be the former President (?) Luna <3 (She/Her) (talk) 06:16, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

As of now, sources still refer to Assad as president.

I don't think there's any reason to rush changing the article. Let's wait what happens in the next few days. Cortador (talk) 06:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

His prime minister is explicitly speaking of handing over the reins of government. Assad's return from oblivion looks extremely unlikely at this point.Dogru144 (talk) 07:16, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Bashar the dictator in the first sentence

This is WP:NOTAFORUM. Obviously, at this point, the proposed edit is not going to be implemented and discussion has devolved into one editor trying to engage other editors in a debate on current events. Chetsford (talk) 18:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Notifying editors who were involved in the related discussion recently. @FaChol @GhostOfNoMan @Setarip @Mhaot Some editors pointed out that other dictators like Putin, Saddam, Gaddafi, Kim Jong Un, etc. do not have "dictator" in the first sentence of the lead. I'd like to mention some points: Unlike the dictators mentioned above, Bashar al-Asad was a dictator who was overthrown by Syrians without any lethal military intervention by a foreign state against his regime. (Gaddafi was overthrown by the Libyan people; but NATO also intervened against his regime) Bashar and his regime is now unanimously disgraced across the world. Apart from that, Bashar's regime had no independence was a totally a puppet regime propped up by Russian and Iranian states which occupied Syria. Bashar was even more of a puppet than Benito Mussolini during the latter's reign as the dictator of Italian Social Republic! Assad regime was even more of a puppet state than Benito Mussolini's Italian Social Republic! Syrians rose up to oust a puppet regime propped up and imposed by Khomeinist Iranian and Putinist Russian imperial states. Additionally, Bashar was the most savage, ruthless and blood-soaked dictator of his generation and operated a dynastic dictatorship. His violent Assad regime was the most repressive tyranny of hisits generation and is also literally described in the academia as "Jamlukiyya" (an Arabic word which combines "al-Jamhuriyya" (trans: "Republic") and "al-Mamlaka" (trans: "Kingdom") Lastly, Bashar's fallen regime is today publicly viewed across the world as a symbol of dictatorship, tyranny, totalitarianism, repression, purges and mass-murder. All these points, (and others) make Bashar part of a megalomaniac class of despots associated with tyranny and cruelty throughout history. (such as Vlad the Impaler, Ivan the Terrible, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Idi Amin, etc.) I am also interested to know about the opinions of history-focused editors Bobfrombrockley, Cinderella157 and Skitash. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 09:38, 8 December 2024 (UTC) No WP:Original. Show your reliable sources. 207.96.32.81 (talk) 13:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC) https://www.thetimes.com/world/middle-east/article/bashar-al-assad-rise-from-london-it-geek-to-brutal-dictator-mj7ncwq3h https://news.sky.com/story/amp/the-fall-of-assad-in-syria-creates-a-security-vacuum-and-may-give-donald-trump-little-choice-but-to-play-a-role-13269422 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7403089 https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2024/12/07/the-fall-of-syrias-dictator BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:06, 8 December 2024 (UTC) I agree and am confident that there are plenty RSs (but we do need to cite those) BobFromBrockley (talk) 13:03, 8 December 2024 (UTC) I question your neutrality, especially "the most savage, ruthless and blood-soaked dictator of his generation" and "Bashar's regime had no independence was a totally a puppet regime propped up by Russian and Iranian states", "Bashar al-Assad was a dictator who was overthrown by Syrians without any lethal military intervention by a foreign state against his regime", "part of a megalomaniac class of despots associated with tyranny and cruelty throughout history. (such as Vlad the Impaler, Ivan the Terrible, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Idi Amin, etc.)" 1: While Assad was a brutal dictator, he is in no way the worst, most ruthless, savage dictator of his generation. There have been other dictators way worse than Assad. 2: Assad's Syria has often been characterized as heavily influenced by both Russia and Iran, but it is not a puppet state with no independence whatsoever. Unlike Iran, Assad's Ba'athist regime is secular, and Assad has resisted aligning fully with Iran’s theocratic agenda. Assad has also worked to re-establish ties with the Arab League and countries like the UAE and Saudi Arabia. Russia has pushed for constitutional reforms unsuccessfully. 3: The SNA and HTS are heavily armed and supported by Turkey. The FSA is supported by the USA. A landlocked microstate did not simply take over Syria on it's own. Syrian rebels in the 2010s were supported heavily by NATO and the GCC. 4: Assad is no way comparable to Vlad, Ivan, or Adolf Hitler, who have committed much worse crimes. Sorry, but you might be biased. Setarip (talk) 14:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC) I don't think Shadowwarrior8 was arguing that all those things should be mentioned in the lead, but that these are reasons "dictator" should be mentioned in the lead. BobFromBrockley (talk) 14:59, 8 December 2024 (UTC) The civil war caused by Bashar al-Assad resulted in the mass-slaughter of more than 600,000 Syrians and forced displacement of nearly 14 million Syrians, (more than half the population of Syria) causing the biggest refugee crisis in the world. More than 90% of total civilian casualties were caused by pro-Assad forces. (source: https://reliefweb.int/report/syrian-arab-republic/12th-anniversary-popular-uprising-total-230224-civilians-documented-dead-including-15275-who-died-due-torture-154871-arrested-andor-forcibly-disappeared-and-roughly-14-million-syrians-displaced) In addition, tens of thousands of people were tortured and killed in Ba'athist Syrian prisons, and more than 120,000 were forcibly disappeared. There are several sources (books, UN reports and academic studies) but here are a few: "Syrian Gulag: Inside Assad’s Prison System" "The Syrian Government Detention System as a Tool of Violent Repression" "The Syrian regime’s apparatus for systemic torture" Tell me one dictatorship in the past 20 years that killed, tortured and purged as much as the Assad regime did? His regime also presided over Ba'athist Syria's occupation of Lebanon and sponsored terrorist activities abroad. I am not making claims out of thin air, I can bring dozens of academic sources, journals, UM reports, etc. I just dont want to cite bomb in the talk page. Either way, if there is no agreement, I might proceed towards an RfC. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 17:16, 8 December 2024 (UTC) I'll remind everyone here to follow BLP, which also applies to talk pages, as well as presumed, or recently, deceased individuals - and we don't even know that Assad is actually dead. I don't disagree with all, or even much, of your assessment, but Wikipedia doesn't follow my personal opinion, and there is (to my knowledge at least) no exception in the policy for even the most "blood-soaked" of dictators. Hence, non-neutral unsourced claims like Bashar was the most savage, ruthless and blood-soaked dictator of his generation or Bashar was even more of a puppet than Benito Mussolini during the latter's reign as the dictator of Italian Social Republic!, which are not supported even by BobFromBrockley's sources, are in clear violation of the policy. LaughingManiac (talk) 14:48, 8 December 2024 (UTC) Mao Zedong - the biggest mass murder in history - is the dictator who killed the most people, at roughly 70 million deaths caused by him, with some people saying he killed more than 80 million. Even then, in the first leading paragraph (not just sentence), the word "dictator" isn't used. Setarip (talk) 15:01, 8 December 2024 (UTC) I think you may have wanted to respond to BobFromBrockley, not me. LaughingManiac (talk) 15:04, 8 December 2024 (UTC) Mao was a revolutionary ideologue, militant commander and political theorist. He was not overthrown by his people. Majority of Chinese people do not currently view him as a dictator. Bashar was not a politician or theorist, he inherited the Ba'athist regime like a monarchy. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 17:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC) See my above comment. It demonstrates explicitly with sources that the Assad regime was the most ruthless and violent dictatorship of its generation, which perpetrated the largest number of killings. (during 2000-2024) U.S. military has killed more than the Assad regime during this period, but USA is not regarded as a dictatorship. Russia under Putin was regarded as a democracy during the 2000s. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 17:24, 8 December 2024 (UTC) No. Your sources, while potential useful additions to the article, merely analyze the damage of the Assad regime. They do not, as far as I can tell, support the following claims: Bashar's regime had no independence was a totally a puppet regime propped up by Russian and Iranian states which occupied Syria the Assad regime was the most ruthless and violent dictatorship of its generation, which perpetrated the largest number of killings. (during 2000-2024) While this is bad enough, the following specific claims, similarly not supported by your linked sources, also happen to be a violation of BLP, as I have already stated above: Bashar was even more of a puppet than Benito Mussolini during the latter's reign as the dictator of Italian Social Republic Bashar was the most savage, ruthless and blood-soaked dictator of his generation and operated a dynastic dictatorship. His violent regime was the most repressive tyranny of his generation The above assessments, while I may or may not agree with them personally, look to me like clear examples of WP:SYNTH. They cannot be made in wikivoice in an article without overwhelming support from reliable sourcing; and at least half of them already run afoul of our policy on living persons. And your Tell me one dictatorship in the past 20 years that killed, tortured and purged as much as the Assad regime did? is obviously insufficient justification for these claims. The BURDEN is on you to provide sources that support this conclusion, not us. Now, of course, it could well be that I am wrong in my reading of your sources. Please, in that case, provide the exact quotes justifying your claims. Otherwise, I will ask you one more time: do you have reliable sources which support these specific claims? LaughingManiac (talk) 17:46, 8 December 2024 (UTC) LaughingManiac None of us have a complete estimate of the number of people killed by Bashar's regime. The Assad regime's mass-graves are yet to be exposed. "Between 2011 and 2015, every week and often twice a week, groups of up to 50 people were taken out of their prison cells and hanged to death. In five years, as many as 13,000 people, most of them civilians..., were hanged in secret at Saydnaya. ... A previous report published in August 2016, forwhich Amnesty International partnered with a team of specialists at Forensic Architecture, University of Goldsmiths to create a virtual 3D reconstruction of Saydnaya prison, estimated that more than 17,000 people have died in prisons across Syria as a result of the inhuman conditions and torture since the Syrian crisis began in 2011. This figure does not include the estimated 13,000 additional deaths as a result of the extrajudicial executions exposed in this report. (Source: "Syria: Secret campaign of mass hangings and extermination at Saydnaya Prison") These reports estimate that more than 30,000 people were tortured and killed in Assadist gulags between 2011 and 2015 alone. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 18:20, 8 December 2024 (UTC) I am not disagreeing with your numbers, or your sources. I am taking issue with your derived conclusions. For the last time, please justify, or retract the BLP-violating assertions. LaughingManiac (talk) 18:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

The lead section length is fine tbh.

Not sure who put the "This article's lead section may be too long." tag but I disagree. The lead section length is fine. Alexysun (talk) 10:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Usually, leads should be limited to 4 or 5 paragraphs maximum for readability. Having to scroll down just to read the lead defeats the point of a lead. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 11:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Probably needs a little trimming but maybe wait until more dust is settled as there’s bound to be temporary expansion BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Fled to Kremlin?

Did former President Assad just reach Moscow alongwith his wife and his children including Hafez Bashar? Leaked reports from the Russian Intelligence Agency claim former President Bashar in exile in the Russian Federation. BuddyHeigh (talk) 17:41, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

It's been confirmed by Russian State Media: Assad is in Moscow — Preceding unsigned comment added by ItsEhan (talk • contribs) 18:16, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Are there any video or photos of him there? Scoaldr (talk) 22:50, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

No, but all we need to say is that Russia claims he is in the country on asylum and it will do. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:36, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Proposition

He was a former Syrian poltician from hw is a Syrianpoltician 95.180.222.131 (talk) 18:28, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2024

There's a sentence that says "his reign was straight up BootyKaka", which was added in a standalone edit and is obvious vandalism. It should be removed. 68.175.72.67 (talk) 18:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done by ExRat; offending editor has been blocked Chetsford (talk) 19:32, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Clarifying that I removed the vandalism, not placed it there. :D ExRat (talk) 20:08, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Ha - sorry, yes! Poor wording by me. Chetsford (talk) 20:14, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Help expand

I've removed the redirect of Presidency of Bashar al-Assad and have created the early stages of an article. Could use help in expanding it further. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 20:03, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Israel captures the Syrian side of the Golan Heights after the Assad regime falls.

Israel captures the Syrian side of the Golan Heights after Assad regime falls. Should that be mentioned in this article? Alexysun (talk) 20:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

I don’t think it belongs in article about man himself. Belong is articles about the events, such as Fall of the Assad regime. BobFromBrockley (talk) 20:24, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

"former politician"

Does it make sense to refer to him as a "former" politician, he's still a politician. ProudWatermelon (talk) 21:11, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

You are right. I've changed the wording. A president in exile is still a politician. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 21:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

It was changed again ProudWatermelon (talk) 21:06, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Image update

I feel like the image needs to be updated, and I have some alternatives, but instead of doing it on my volition I am going to let you all decide.

• 
  A
• 
  B
• 
  C
• 
  D

PopularGames (talk) 23:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

And why do we need to change the image? The original one looks fine to me. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 00:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose as well. The current image is from 2024. It doesn't need to be updated just because the guy is unemployed now. Cortador (talk) 06:31, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose he looks like herb in all of the photos. No reason to change. --Giacomo1968 (talk) 23:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: I oppose the change, the present image is fine. --TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 03:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support C : looks best as a portrait. Shadow4dark (talk) 10:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• C or D looks best. Setarip (talk) 14:57, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose : the current one is just fine and is recent ProudWatermelon (talk) 21:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

His current location

The article says he has fled to Moscow, although this is possibly true, his wear abouts are still unknown, for the time being this should be removed Communism-socialism-is-part-of-my-past (talk) 04:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Why? Reliable sources have reported so. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 05:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

AP: Ousted Syrian leader Bashar Assad fled to Moscow and received asylum from his longtime ally, Russian media said Sunday + CNN: As many in Syria celebrated the end of the long rule of Bashar al-Assad, rumors swirled about his whereabouts. After a day of intrigue, the mystery was solved when Russian state media announced he had landed in Moscow. “Assad and his family have arrived in Moscow. Russia, for humanitarian reasons, has granted them asylum,” a Kremlin source said, according to TASS. All we need to say is that Russia claimed that he is in the country on grounds of asylum. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:34, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

It has been confirmed overnight, please now ignore this message, thank you! Communism-socialism-is-part-of-my-past (talk) 13:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Remove Field Marshal at top of Infobox

He’s no longer field marshal it should be removed from the Infobox. There are still those who sympathize with him it appears 73.210.30.217 (talk) 08:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Not done. Field marshal was the rank he held Billsmith60 (talk) 17:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2024

bashar assad fleed syria and landed in Moscow with his family 196.225.194.47 (talk) 15:34, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Already done LizardJr8 (talk) 16:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2024 (2)

He arrived in Moscow with a fortune of 2 Billion dollars 2603:6010:BB00:288B:FCC5:101:23D3:AAFF (talk) 17:43, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

That is a reprint of a Daily Mail article. Per WP:DAILYMAIL, that is not a reliable source. Cullen328 (talk) 09:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Already done: Already says it in the article. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 18:21, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@Cullen328. I didn't add the Daily Mail citation since there already was one in the article. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 14:25, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2024 (3)

Hi, Bashar Al Assad is no longer president of Syria as the Syrian revolution toke over Syria and he fled the country. Please correct the information and mention the new president of Syria. 77.241.136.45 (talk) 18:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Bashar Al Assad is no longer president of Syria as the Syrian revolution took over Syria and he fled the country. Please correct the information and mention the new president of Syria. 77.241.136.45 (talk) 18:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

We're not the news; we can give it some time to get it right. 199.80.8.254 (talk) 18:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Already done: It already say that Bashar al-Assad was overthrown and he fled to Moscow, Russia. It also says that the Free Syrian Army now has taken control however, the leader of Syria is still not known. It's perhaps best to give some time for information to surface. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 18:48, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2024 (4)

Under post presidency Assad is spelled "Assas." Change Assas to Assad. Dustinsantos1224 (talk) 22:30, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done: Grammar has been fixed. Thanks for helping out. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 22:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Why is the pronunciation bə-SHAR AL-ə-SAHD which puts the stress incorrectly on the final syllable depicted in the opening note of this article? The stress should be on the "AH" part per the Arabic pronunciation, approximating the American English pronunciation of "Acid". Colipon+(Talk) 01:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 December 2024

"who died on 10 June 2000" change to "who had died on 10 June 2000" (The use of the past perfect tense is more accurate due to the chronological order, as the death of Assad's father occurred before his election as president on July 17, 2000.)

"taking charge of the Syrian occupation of Lebanon in 1998" change to "took charge of the Syrian occupation of Lebanon in 1998" (This change is due to the use of the simple past tense, which is more appropriate for this type of sentence) Mehran 232345 (talk) 09:32, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done Bowler the Carmine | talk 20:31, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Mass murderer category

Would the mass murderer category be appropriate for him? Yes his regime was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands but would it be appropriate to add it for him? 2600:100C:A218:9A7B:F802:7211:6E15:A488 (talk) 12:51, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

While you're probably thinking of mass killing and not mass murder, it's tricky, Assad was considered a dictator and was probably responding for the deaths of many people, but that's guesswork at this point. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 14:30, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Presidency of Bashar al-Assad page

The Presidency of Bashar al-Assad page is blank while this BLP covers his presidency in detail. Is there a split in agreement or should that page be deleted? Titan2456 (talk) 05:32, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

There was no consensus for a split; an editor was bold and changed it from a redirect to the bones of an article. It should be changed back to a redirect because there is no content. Yue🌙 06:06, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

@WikiCleanerMan do you agree? Titan2456 (talk) 15:15, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

I have begun adding information borrowing from Assad's article. Both articles should not be duplicating information entirely. I think the main Assad article needs to be trimmed down from about his presidency because it contains too much information that can be solely on this article. On a side not, this article contains too many images as well. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 15:58, 14 December 2024 (UTC)