Talk:Balibo Five

Untitled

Removed the internal links to Schapelle Corby and Bali Nine. From a certain perspective, there's a link in that these people and some of the Balibo Five were Australians who suffered in Indonesia. However, only two of the Balibo Five were Australian. Furthermore, the Balibo Five were never incarcerated for alleged drug smuggling - hence I can't see the relevance of the links. Captainmax 04:35, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

But, Max, you failed to see the relevance that this article is consistent with other 'Indonesia-bashing' articles (like Corby and Bali Nine). Personally, I believe Balibo is the reason why every single skirmish with the Northern neighbor is viewed under the microscope by the Australian press. Granted, the perpetrators need to be brought to justice, but trying to blame every freaking Indonesian for Balibo incident is like trying to blame a North Korean peasant for their Nuclear program. You need to know the difference between the Indonesians and their present-day oppressors. Kortsleting 11:41, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense. The idea that the Australian media 'had it in' for Indonesia because of what happened to these five men is just silly. Sure, you get rednecks who go on about what happened to "our boys" (as if it were worse than what happened to the East Timorese) but this is not an 'Indonesia-bashing' article, and I would not like to let it become one.Quiensabe (talk) 22:30, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

External links vs. references

Many of the External links should really be references. I'll try to attribute as much of the body to the appropriate sources as I can over the next couple of days. Mark Chovain 04:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Great idea. SmithBlue 10:57, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok - I've culled a bunch of junk links from the external links section. I think we had every "DemocracyNow" article that had anything to do with Timor-Leste. I also removed a link to a page of links at etan.org, but extracted some potential links from it:

• http://www.etan.org/et/1998/december/8-14/10death.htm
• http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/index.php?page=archive&daysum=2000-04-26
• http://www.dartcenter.org/articles/personal_stories/shackleton_shirley.html
• http://www.etan.org/et2000b/april/23-30/26widow.htm

I also found an article on BBC that had quite a bit of info about a previous attempt by the UN to issue arrest warrants over the incident back in 2001: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/content/news/2001/02/03/timor.shtml Stay tuned for more changes. Mark Chovain 22:30, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I've made my first changes. I've placed {{cn}} tags as markers for myself. I plan on citing each of those. Let me know here if you have any feedback. I'd also like to see the paragraph listing the journalists be expanded into a section. Surely we can find enough information on them? Mark Chovain 23:34, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Nice work - please keep adding cites for new info added - this inquest may get a little controversial and this article may get a lot busier with editors of widely different views. SmithBlue 06:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - the inquest section is going to need a bit of work. I plan on letting it run wild while I sort out the rest of the article. By the time I get around to it, it should hopefully have settled out a little. Mark Chovain 22:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Over use of {{Fact}} template

I have removed all the ghastly {{Fact}} templates. I am sure all the citations needed can be easily found, most likely in the listing of current references. Instead of choking the article with these stupid things how bout a general "this article does not quote its sources" nicely placed at the end of the article. Nomadtales 10:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I have a reference news article for the comment by the inquest QC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1938074.htm

Do you think we should add a "Political Fallout" section ?

Check out this news story...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1938187.htm

Protests in Jakarta over Balibo summons attempt By Indonesia correspondent Geoff Thompson and wires

Hundreds of protesters have gathered outside the Australian embassy in Jakarta demanding an apology from the Federal Government over an attempt to serve a summons on Jakarta's Governor when he visited Sydney yesterday.

So-called "sweeping operations" against Australian citizens living in Jakarta will begin over the next couple of days and if any are found, they will be sent home, a protest spokesman said outside Australia's Jakarta embassy this afternoon.

Governor Sutiyoso has denied being in Balibo when five Australian-based journalists were killed in 1975.

In 1975, Mr Sutiyoso was in East Timor as the captain of a special operations unit.

He has been accused of being in Balibo at the time five Australian-based newsmen were killed there.

That allegation led to an attempt yesterday at Sydney hotel by to serve a summons on him to appear at the coronial inquest into the death of one of the men, Brian Peters.

Governor Sutiyoso has also questioned whether Indonesia should maintain a diplomatic relationship between the two countries.

He asked Indonesian Foreign Minister Hassan Wirajuda to demand an apology from the Australian Government for what he calls improper treatment of a foreign official.

'Slighted'

"I really feel slighted by such treatment," Governor Sutiyoso, a prominent politician in Indonesia, told reporters in Jakarta.

"If there is no apology, I will deem it as arrogance on their part, and do we need to continue relations with Australia?

"The matter will quickly be settled if they admit to their mistake."

He denies he played any role in the killings.

"I did not go to Balibo, my troops were not in Balibo. I was in another place but not Balibo," he said.

Mr Wirajuda had already sought and received an explanation from the Australian ambassador over the incident, a foreign ministry spokesman says.

The spokesman says the Government was "so far" not planning to lodge a formal protest with Australia.

DFAT

The Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade says it has explained the independence of the New South Wales coroner to the Indonesian embassy.

The embassy contacted the Department today to convey the Indonesian Government's concerns about the treatment of Jakarta's Governor.

The Department says requests for an apology are a matter for New South Wales police and the coroner.

The Australian embassy in Jakarta stressed police had not been acting on behalf of the Australian Government in requesting Governor Sutiyoso give evidence.

"The thing that needs to be emphasised in this case is that it was only a request, an invitation from coronial police. Mr Sutiyoso was not forced to come to the inquest," embassy spokesman John Williams told ElShinta radio.

Governor Sutiyoso said he had lodged a formal protest with the New South Wales Government in Sydney, where he was the official guest of Premier Morris Iemma to revive a cooperation pact between the state and Jakarta.

"If the Australian Government apologises and says it was a case of negligence, then we will think of continuing our relations," he said.

A Point Overlooked

If I remember correctly the coffins buried in Jakarta were never confirmed to contain the remains of the actual journalists. If true, then surely this is worth mentioning? --Wiltthoulearn (talk) 13:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a reference saying that the coffins did not contain the remains, then absolutely (just post the link here if you're not sure how to reference, and I'll get it in there. Something saying that the remains were just never confirmed (as opposed to being confirmed that the remains weren't there) would need a couple of really good references though, otherwise we'd just promoting conjecture: such a claim would be bordering on a conspiracy theory. Mark Chovain 00:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Whitlam

The claim in this paragraph is unsubstantiated, which is why I'm removing it. I would shed no tears if it were true, but there's nothing to suggest that it is. Quiensabe (talk) 20:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Prior to the start of the inquest, in January 2007, there was media debate regarding some Defence Signals Directorate (DSD) documents that appear to suggest the then Prime Minister of Australia, Gough Whitlam, gave approval to the Indonesian military for the killing of the journalists. Mr Whitlam denies this.

Could find nothing outside blogs - did find source for prior gov knowlege of invasion and target of journos. A brief summ of history of invasion may be a good addition to this article. SmithBlue (talk) 08:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Balibo Five/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Rated Start due to style issues (the quotes near the bottom) and a need for more sources, especially earlier in the article. Really, this is about 4 or 5 edits from B-grade - not far at all. Good luck with it! DanielT5 18:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 18:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 08:52, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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pictures of the journalists...

...rather than the current picture of a painted window, would be helpful. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 00:56, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, but more often than not, the problem is finding a non-copyright picture. If you find or have one, please upload it. Regards Davidelit (Talk) 05:23, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

That's correct. To be slightly more specific, what is needed is a picture where the copyright holder is willing to license their image under something equivalent to "Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International", which means, among other things, "I grant anyone the right to use the work, even in a commercial product or otherwise, and to modify it according to their needs, provided that they abide by the terms of the license and any other applicable laws." There are more details on the Wikimedia Commons page about such things. MPS1992 (talk) 19:46, 29 August 2018 (UTC)