Talk:Alexander Yui

Nationality

@CCL2023:I saw you just add Republic of China (Taiwan) at Hsiao Bi-khim (Special:Diff/1189518240), which seemed like a good WP:NPOV compromise to WP:COMMONNAME. Can put Republic of China (Taiwan) instead? --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 10:52, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

my...my...Alexander Yui and Fu Kun-chi also....please don't unilaterally changed again on another ones outside of WP:COMMONNAME please... --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 10:52, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Republic of China (Taiwan) links to Taiwan, and per WP:COMMONNAME, still think that we should be using Taiwan whenever possible. There is a reason hundreds of users and admins have decided the Taiwan was the appropriate article title for the country. The only exception I see is in a historical context (say, in 1930s China). Butterdiplomat (talk) 11:31, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Butterdiplomat

Thanks for your suggestion. @Cat12zu3 did point out the official name of “Taiwan” is “the Republic of China”. I liked Taiwan, a beautiful island in the east Pacific Ocean, liked a pearl in the sea. Indeed, the passport from Taiwaneses (so called Chinese in the past) had all kinds of various name from “Republic of China” to “the Republic of China Taiwan”. I also checked other wiki links. People also used “Republic of China”. In this case, your suggestion is not “official”. It is most likely your own preference. CCL2023 (talk) 11:47, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Sorry to interrupt however, for the record WP:DRN#Republic of China (Taiwan) said, quote: The editors who said that we use the common name are correct..., and the admin in the noticeboard had reverse your edit (Special:Diff/1189466022) --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 11:51, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

Here is the complete response.

Closed. There are substantive problems and procedural problems with this filing. The procedural problem is that the filing editor has not notified the other editors on their user talk pages. The substantive problem is that there has not been discussion on an article talk page. However, I will try to address the filing editor's question. The editors who said that we use the common nameare correct. It appears that the MOS does not explicitly state that Taiwan should be used rather than Republic of China. There probably should be an RFC to add a paragraph to the MOS to clarify that Taiwan should be used because it is the common name. It isn't within the scope of this noticeboard to start that process. Further discussion should be at an article talk page, such for the politician in question, or at an MOS talk page. The other editors are reminded that the filing editor was acting in good faith, and that templating them for vandalism was inappropriate. This was a content dispute, and was not vandalism. The filing editor and the other editors are all advised to discuss rather than edit-warring.  Robert McClenon (talk) 01:14, 12 CCL2023 (talk) 12:04, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Which is why I suggested Republic of China (Taiwan) as a compromise.... Cat12zu3 (talk) 12:07, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

I checked your link suggestion “Republic of China (Taiwan)”. It seems it linked back to the same page as “Republic of China” and “Taiwan. CCL2023 (talk) 12:13, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

The admin there agreed that Taiwan should be used, as the name of the article and as the article to be referred to. There is no confusion for someone born in Taiwan after the 1940s of what their nationality could be, so the common name convention applies. The "official name" is clear in the main article and does not need to be referred to in every other article. See examples of Bill Clinton (vs. William Jefferson Clinton) and, perhaps more relevantly, the United Kingdom (vs. United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Butterdiplomat (talk) 12:11, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Butterdiplomat

Can you summarize those two wiki pages for me? I am not from the law school. CCL2023 (talk) 12:17, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

I had already explained to you many times in your talk page about WP:COMMONNAME, examples are North Korea not DPRK. These are examples....that applys to all, meaning, so does South Korea not ROK, Taiwan not ROC. --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 12:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

“It appears that the MOS does not explicitly state that Taiwan should be used rather than Republic of China.” CCL2023 (talk) 12:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Robert McClenon still said WP:COMMONNAME is correct, is just that MOS wasn't updated or RFC yet --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 12:10, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

He suggests that it should actually be explicitly added. We will probably kick off that process soon. In the meantime, because the convention should be clear to you through multiple references, please refrain from engaging in disruptive editing. Many thanks. Butterdiplomat (talk) 12:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Butterdiplomat

Are you saying the Wikipedia foundation or the wiki community are going to make official announcement that people should use the common name, instead of official name to represent a nationality of a citizen or a civilian?

“disruptive editing”, thanks for this. You are kind of tagging me all the times. CCL2023 (talk) 12:23, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Wiki community, yes. Because that is what ultimately decides what the content on this site should be. And that is guided by the objective of being clear and accurate, not necessarily being official. Butterdiplomat (talk) 12:30, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Butterdiplomat

Thanks for sharing this concept to me. According to your response, the “official” name of a country is not so important or necessary. The wiki community has its own rules to determine the official name of a country. Is this true in your response? CCL2023 (talk) 12:38, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

The official name is documented in the main article, the same way "William Jefferson Clinton" is referenced in Bill Clinton. Thanks. Butterdiplomat (talk) 12:39, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. It is neither the rule nor easiest to understand for most readers to use the official name in this context. If users want more background on Taiwan and its history, they can read more in the main article. However, hundreds of editors and admins have decided that the common name is the more appropriate article title to use, and this is codified in WP:COMMONNAME, so it should be used unless we are talking 1940s (when there could have been a distinction between ROC vs. Empire of Japan). Butterdiplomat (talk) 12:07, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Butterdiplomat

Thanks for your suggestion. I will go for the suggestion from @Cat12zu3 by using the official name from the official link. CCL2023 (talk) 12:48, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

Thanks for sharing your points to me. Yes, I was checking the comments from user “Chipmunkdavis” regarding to “MOS:INFOBOXFLAG” suggestions. I also compared this suggestion to Chinese Version and English Version in Wikipedia. Obviously, the suggestion “MOS:INFOBOXFLAG” are different between these two versions in Wikipedia.

Furthermore, I checked other’s wiki and it seemed both “Republic of China” and “Taiwan” had been used. No worry. I checked the link “Republic of China” and “Taiwan”. Both link will redirect to the same wiki page. In my understanding, it is safe to use the official name instead of the common name to represent someone’s nationality.

Again, thanks for your suggestion. I hope one day that you can visit Taiwan, a beautiful island in the east side of the Pacific Ocean. CCL2023 (talk) 11:32, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

you mean (WP:NPOV compromise suggestion to WP:COMMONNAME? as in ...you add Republic of China (Taiwan) at Hsiao Bi-khim (Special:Diff/1189518240), which seemed like a good WP:NPOV compromise to WP:COMMONNAME. Can put Republic of China (Taiwan) instead?... --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 11:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

It is wired that people follow the official name from an official government link. You tried to push to someone break this kind of rule. So, are you saying using “Republic of China“ to represent the nationality of Taiwanese is breaking this rule of “Wikipedia:NPOV”? CCL2023 (talk) 11:55, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

Updated:

Is it wired that people follow the official name from an official government link to contribute the wiki page? It seemed that you tried to push to someone break this kind of rule. So, are you saying using “Republic of China“ to represent the nationality of Taiwanese that is breaking this rule of “Wikipedia:NPOV”? CCL2023 (talk) 11:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Becuase by right it should be WP:COMMONNAME, but since you keep insisting it, then I sort-of suggested compromise to WP:COMMONNAME using Republic of China (Taiwan), though it really break the WP:COMMONNAME standard, which the admin in the noticeboard had reversed your edit ((Special:Diff/1189466022 --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 11:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

Thanks for your suggestion. CCL2023 (talk) 12:24, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

So that's it you agree to Republic of China (Taiwan)...though that compromise fall short of WP:COMMONNAME and would probably be reversed like the admin in the WP:DRN#Republic of China (Taiwan) (Special:Diff/1189466022) --- Cat12zu3 (talk) 12:29, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

Thanks so much. I can take your suggestion. CCL2023 (talk) 12:29, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

Thanks for your suggestion. CCL2023 (talk) 12:30, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@Cat12zu3

I like your suggestion. Using the official name from the official link. CCL2023 (talk) 12:46, 12 December 2023 (UTC)