Talk:2020 American athlete strikes

Merge Information

The information on this article seems not to justify its own article. I recommend simply moving the information here directly to the Kenosha protests article, perhaps under the Events elsewhere header. RobotGoggles (talk) 03:10, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi @RobotGoggles:, thanks for taking a look. I searched for any similar article and found none. There is sufficient RS for an article. Situation is ongoing, and significant in my opinion. I am sure some other editors will see this on NPP and elsewhere. Lightburst (talk) 03:15, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps. I would recommend a better sweep of copyediting, however, and if you wish to highlight the athletic protests and boycotts of 2020 or of the Black Lives Matter protests, it might be wise to be more broad in the opener and in the article title. "American athletic boycotts" is vague and confusing in my opinion. "Athletic responses to 2020 Black Lives Matter protests" would be more specific and easy to understand and find. That's just an example, of course, and if it doesn't match your vision, that's just my point. I don't really know the purpose you had in mind for this article. RobotGoggles (talk) 03:18, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

@RobotGoggles: good suggestion for a title. I am glad you suggested. Perhaps a page move? I thought it was significant when the Bucks refused to play. And then it cascaded. Now we are not even sure if there will be a rest of the season in the NBA. Lightburst (talk) 03:23, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

A page move would be appropriate in my opinion, yes. RobotGoggles (talk) 03:27, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

@RobotGoggles: I think a title change is likely in order. However, with a title like Athlete responses to 2020 Black Lives Matter protests. I think that title would be less specific an would include more protests - like the kneeling, and it could get unwieldy. What do you think? Lightburst (talk) 03:44, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

How about 2020 Athletic Boycotts

They almost all fit the same reasons. And that's in the opener. RobotGoggles (talk) 03:53, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Article title

Should we add "2020" to the article title? The current title suggests this article is about athlete boycotts in the United States in general. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:04, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I was bold and added 2020 to the title as there seemed to be a consensus here that it was needed. I Still dont think it is the right title, but at least it is clearer now. "Boycott" is also misleading as the players are not withholding money, they are withholding labor. this is for all intensive purposes a strike.--Found5dollar (talk) 16:44, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Found5dollar, Thanks for at least adding 2020 for now. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:51, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 28 August 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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2020 American athlete boycotts → 2020 American athlete strikes – Per this [1] source, while many reliable sources are calling theses "boycotts" in actuality they are a form of "strike". A boycott is the withholding of money while a strike is the withholding of labor. If people were refusing to go to sports games that would be a boycott. Since the workers are refusing to work they are strikes. Found5dollar (talk) 22:14, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

• Move to 2020 athlete strikes I found that it seems to be more globalized because the strike also happens outside the United States. But I think i not problem to have a tittle like you suggested. 110.137.170.63 (talk) 03:36, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for now Originally I moved this to strike per the suggestion as it is certainly more accurate, but then looking into all of the RS in the article: nearly all RS in the article use the word boycott. The nominator attached an article where the writer intends to show that the word boycott has been misused, however I think we need to stay with the majority of RS until the other RS supports strike. FYI: one portion of the definition of boycott is: refuse to cooperate with or participate in (a policy or event) - so I see why some RS uses it. I do think that 2020 is misplaced in the title and would suggest that 2020 should be at the end American athlete boycotts 2020. Lightburst (talk) 14:43, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment Unsure about the "boycott" vs "strike" wording, but the "2020" placement follows other Wikipedia articles, e.g. 2020 Beirut explosion, 2020 Belarusian protests, etc. Also want to note that if the article is moved, other uses of "boycott" in the article body should also be changed to "strike" for consistency. Natg 19 (talk) 22:26, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment Well not all uses of "boycott". The matter of the terminology itself is now a topic of coverage by reliable sources so I added a section on that, and the inconsistency needs to stand in that section. Thisisnotatest (talk) 23:29, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

• Move to 2020 American athlete strikes The Wikipedia title policy says (as I read it) if reliable sources offers multiple options, the ideal article title precisely identifies the subject." No mention is made of needing a majority of reliable sources as driver of the decision; it says if there are multiple choices, use the one that best describes the topic. Both "boycott" and "strike" are being used by reliable sources. If "boycott" has more than one possible interpretation and "strike" has a clearer single interpretation, then "strike" meets the goal and "boycott" doesn't. Thisisnotatest (talk) 22:10, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Per WP:COMMONNAME: "When there are multiple names for a subject, all of which are fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others."

• Oppose. Boycott as the most common term used, from what I've seen and continue to see. Also, unless it is very clear that an incorrect title has been used, there is no need to rush to make a change; leave as-in and one or more editors can request this be revisited, at a later time. Dmoore5556 (talk) 03:23, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
• Move to 2020 American athlete wildcat strikes, since this is specifically a wildcat strike action. While it's not as common a term as "strike" or "boycott", it's the most accurate, and sources do use it.[2][3][4][5][6] – Muboshgu (talk) 21:05, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
• Support strikes This action does not meet the definition of a boycott. If the game was played but the audience stayed home, that would be a boycott. If people refused to shop at a particular store or buy a particular item, that would be a boycott. This was players refusing to do their job - that's a strike. Muboshgu is correct that this was technically a wildcat strike, and that is the wikilink I have been using for it, but I think "strike" is more generally understandable, and hardly any sources are calling it "wildcat". -- MelanieN (talk) 19:48, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
• I too support moving this to a title containing the word "strike" as a worker withholding their labor is a strike, not a boycott. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
• Support Strike is the correct word for these events.★Trekker (talk) 16:51, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Technically and lexicologically speaking, this would be better described in common parlance as a "strike" rather than a "boyott.

That being said, the sources here almost uniformly call them a "boycott". WP:Verifiability not WP:Truth. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:00, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm not seeing a uniform usage. I'm seeing boycott, strike, walkout, wildcat strike, and postponement. Boycott *might* have plurality but I'm not seeing any term in the majority. Thisisnotatest (talk) 08:57, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

• Support there has been ample criticism of using the word "boycott" when discussing what is actually a wildcat strike. We should aim to reflect the most accurate information of events. Wikipedia holds accuracy above popular misconception. Mangokeylime (talk) 18:14, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
• Support move to 2020 athlete strikes because i see the movement become more globalized now because there are similar movement that happened outside the United States (for example in England) so think word "American" doesn't necessary. But I no problem to move this article to 2020 American athlete strikes as long as it not spread worldwide. 36.68.167.178 (talk) 21:41, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Comment A move will only involved a redirect anyway. Either solution is not It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine). 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:47, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Comment I agree a move is fine, because the redirect will exist. Lightburst (talk) 20:07, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

• Support moving to strike but I would strike the word athlete, since they were sportspeople, not athletes. Athletes refers to participants in the sport of athletics.--User:Namiba 12:36, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
• Support It should be moved since the I think it fits the definition, but I think "American" should be dropped from the name since technically Canadian teams were also involved in the matches affected. Perhaps it can be "North American" instead or just have no place name in the article title if there's enough evidence for it to be a truly global event. -boldblazer (talk) 07:06, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
• Support They're not paying to play, these are strikes not boycotts blindlynx (talk) 21:05, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.