Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tropical cyclones

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2018 Global FT

Latest comment: 3 years ago38 comments8 people in discussion

Bumping thread for 730 days. However long it takes... Noah^Talk 16:07, 25 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

WPAC work will take longer than it could have, so maybe bumping this until 16:07 UTC 25 May 2023. Feel free to revert. Mario Jump 83! 02:00, 1 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

What's in the topic?

Tropical cyclones in 2018 (future featured topic)

Tropical cyclones in 2018

92 articles

2018 Pacific hurricane season

Hurricane Bud

Tropical Storm Carlotta

Hurricane Hector

Tropical Storm Ileana

Tropical Storm Vicente

Hurricane Willa

Tropical Depression Nineteen-E

Hurricane Walaka

Timeline of the 2018 Pacific hurricane season

2017–18 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season

Cyclone Ava

Cyclone Berguitta

Cyclone Dumazile

Tropical Storm Eliakim

Cyclone Fakir

Timeline of the 2017–18 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season

2018–19 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season

Timeline of the 2018–19 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season

2017–18 Australian region cyclone season

Cyclone Kelvin

Cyclone Marcus

Cyclone Nora

18U Flood article

Timeline of the 2017–18 Australian region cyclone season

2018–19 Australian region cyclone season

Cyclone Owen

Timeline of the 2018–19 Australian region cyclone season

Liua may be another possible article. Noah^Talk 17:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricanehink: this spreadsheet is here if you need it. Noah^Talk 20:20, 9 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

Discussion

@Hurricanehink: I thought that I would bring this rather large topic to the eyes of the project... I have worked extensively on the EPAC portion and almost have enough for an FT there. I plan to Leslie with Cooper and Gordon this summer. Any thoughts on this topic? Noah^Talk 02:41, 16 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

I believe a global FT would only feature the seasons, as each individual season could be its own good/featured topic. As usual, WPAC is going to be the biggest holdup. Also, the retired storms will be on the difficult side. I appreciate the efforts for a global GT/FT for a year. Eventually I think that navbox could go on the talk page for Talk:Tropical cyclones in 2018. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:38, 16 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricanehink: This is displaying all storms involved in the subtopics... there are 60 total articles, but this has multiple subtopics. That is why there is indentation for storms and then for Florence's Met. Although that could be an issue for the SHEM seasons since some storms would not qualify as part of this year, but would for other years. Noah^Talk 13:59, 16 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

You're right. For instance, the 2018-19 SWIO season would need to be a GA, but (thankfully) not Idai and Kenneth. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:41, 17 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricanehink: How should we handle this? Noah^Talk 21:13, 17 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure what you mean handle. All storms with articles in 2018 will have to be a GA or better. It'll be a lot of work, but it'll be impressive when it's done when it gets there. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:31, 18 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricanehink: I mean how would the SHEM be handled since the entire season subtopic wouldnt get included? Should we just have the topic as it currently stands to keep it consistent? Noah^Talk 17:59, 18 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricane Noah: All of the topics for the SHEM seasons wouldn't have to be included. For instance, Idai being a 2019 storm wouldn't have to be a GA for the overall 2018 topic. Similarly, the 2018-19 season wouldn't have to become a GT for the whole topic, but it would have to be a GA at least. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:40, 24 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricanehink: Have you seen the progress that KN has been making in WPAC? Noah^Talk 16:03, 25 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

I have! Good job KN, and good job to TY2013 for working on Usman. I might get Sagar and Mekunu to FA eventually (would just need one more FA to make that season an FT) ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 25 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

No worries! Personally think that there should be an article for Tropical Depression Josie. Like even so, it seems to be more significant than Cimaron. Typhoon2013 (talk) 02:00, 26 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

@ChocolateTrain: Would you be willing to help get the southern hemisphere up to a good quality for this topic? Noah^Talk 01:33, 1 June 2020 (UTC)Reply

Accompanying task force hasn't been linked on this page, so here it is. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 06:44, 4 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

2018 Pacific hurricane season (Featured topic)

Any thoughts on having a 2018 Pacific hurricane season featured topic within the next few months? My goal is to rewrite Walaka on Monday/Tuesday (and put it up for ACR) to make it better. I want to later rewrite Olivia and Bud to improve them both (also ACR). CooperScience is working on the timeline article currently as well. Noah^Talk 19:00, 15 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

Good idea. I'm busy with Cyclone Owen now, but I'm nearly done. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 11:12, 19 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Chicdat: The first article is the hardest to do usually. There is no time restraint on the work. Keep in mind I have been working on this topic on and off for two years now. Noah^Talk 19:40, 19 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricanehink and Chicdat: I can tell you that the topic isn't going to be happening until 2021. I actually would like to hold off on nominating it (even after the timeline is done) until I have gotten the chance to rewrite the storm articles I need to (Bud and Olivia at this point) and get them to FA. I think it would be cool to have an entirely featured featured topic going into the nomination. I really appreciate the effort everyone has put into the topic. I hope to do this prolific season due justice. Bud will be next storm I rewrite (after Leslie in ATL). I will do Olivia in December most likely. Noah^Talk 23:34, 17 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I think the entire worldwide topic should be done by 2023 (the 5 year anniversary), which will allow for a lot of TFA's. ~Hurricanehink (talk) 18:25, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricanehink: A GT should be doable, but idk about a FT by that time. After Hector, we would need 31 more (32 if we need a couple more WPAC articles). I will continue doing EPAC FAs and move to ATL next year, but it will take more than what I am able to do to get us all the way there in only two years. Noah^Talk 19:31, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

You're right, 11 per year is a lot. It's doable, for sure, but is probably too steep a hill. I'm already committed to Mekunu, Sagar, 2018 NIO, and Alberto. I'm interested in Yutu for the PTS. But that's only 5, and my editing time isn't what it used to be (peak 2007-08 during college, should've studied/partied more, oh well ._.) ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:24, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricanehink: Actually, I am going to get involved with finishing off this EPAC timeline article (I will finish August and do October). Nova has expressed interest in helping to finish it and KN may be willing to lend a hand. I do know that KN said he plans to do a bunch of PTS articles in December as he will be done with his months of exams. Noah^Talk 21:49, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

The WPAC is gonna be a majority of the remaining work, especially with needing four new articles, and improving five start-class articles. Here's hoping the tropics get quiet soon so we don't have to keep up with the busy active season! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:15, 20 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

So the remaining nominations for the EPAC in the likely order of completion:

Hurricane Bud (2018)
Timeline of the 2018 Pacific hurricane season - CB has been hammering this one
2018 Pacific hurricane season
Hurricane Olivia (2018) - I'm working on fixing up this storm rn
2018 Pacific hurricane season - I will update this article (Bud, Olivia, and ACE) after finishing Olivia

How does this sound? Noah^Talk 11:52, 22 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Well. This is almost perfectly done, only Hurricane Bud (2018) and 2018 Pacific hurricane season aren't FAs yet. I think Hurricane Bud should be at least an A-class article. Mario Jump 83! 05:25, 29 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

2018 Atlantic hurricane season (future featured topic)

2018 Atlantic hurricane season

10 articles

Tropical Storm Alberto

Hurricane Florence

Meteorological history of Hurricane Florence

Hurricane Leslie

Hurricane Beryl

Tropical Storm Gordon

Hurricane Michael

Hurricane Chris

Tropical Storm Kirk

Timeline of the 2018 Atlantic hurricane season

Adding this in as I plan to work on it during 2021. Just a heads up to everyone... Destroyeraa is working on Beryl and I am doing Leslie right now. I started on Gordon this past summer and plan to finish it in 2021. Noah^Talk 22:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Beryl and Chris both up to GA. L&D2K and I will work on Florence, Noah will handle the rest? ~ Destroyer 🌀🌀 03:26, 2 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, I will get Leslie and Gordon done. Noah^Talk 21:48, 3 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

2018 North Indian Ocean cyclone season (future featured topic)

2018 North Indian Ocean cyclone season

6 articles

@Hurricanehink: I added this topic here as I know you plan to work on it some during the next year as time permits. I believe you said only Titli needed to be created? Noah^Talk 22:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

Titli created by Nioni1234 and me. I’ll try to work on it when I have time. ~ Destroyer 🌀🌀 18:39, 2 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

Adding Phethai as DachshundLover82 wanted it. Mario Jump 83! 12:39, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Luckily, Titli was improved to start. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 10:33, 1 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

If we need a timeline, I'm willing to work on one. Java Hurricane 11:42, 17 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

2018 Pacific typhoon season (future good topic)

Added in the WPAC topic that KN has been working hard on. Prapiroon and Barijat may also be article worthy and should be checked out. Noah^Talk 22:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)Reply

I am going to check Prapiroon and Barijat. I'm going to create these articles first, but if I can't find any more Prapiroon and Barijat information, they'll be merged back into the season article. Mario Jump 83! 06:40, 17 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

WP:URFA/2020

Latest comment: 3 years ago15 comments10 people in discussion

Please don't archive this until the end of Cyclone Cup. This is probably very necessary for some participants out there. Mario Jump 83! 06:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

The last equivalent of a sweep of Featured articles started in June 2006 to re-evaluate FAs for the new requirement for inline citations. By the end of 2008, most of those FAs had been processed through the Featured article review (FAR) page, with one-third of them retaining their featured status. No systematic review of FAs has been undertaken since then, resulting in a number of FAs that have not been reviewed for many years.

WP:URFA/2020 is a November 2020 list of 4,527 FAs that have not been reviewed at FAC or FAR for more than five years. You can help assure that Wikipedia's Featured articles still meet FA standards. Many just need checking for compliance, sometimes a minor tune-up, and listing improvements needed on article talk often results in someone engaging to address the issues so that a FAR can be avoided. And even if an article has deteriorated enough that it does need to be submitted to FAR, the FAR process is an intentionally deliberative process, allowing ample time for improvement.

Can hurricane editors familiar with the WIAFA standards run through the older FAs listed below and indicate which are still in compliance? One or two editors suffices, and a non-hurricane editor can then verify. Perfection is not the goal, rather the URFA process seeks to identify which FAs are good enough and which need to be submitted to FAR. Yes, you can review your own nominations—we're glad you're still watching them! Check for text that has become dated or was not cited when standards were more lax, MOS:SANDWICHing that my have creft in as drive-by editors drop in images, and anything else you would normally check in an FA review.

Those that are still satisfactorily within the FA standards can be noted at WP:URFA/2020 as "Satisfactory". Once independent editors, experienced with the FA process, concur, those articles will be moved to the "Review not needed" section. Those not meeting standards are eligible to be submitted to FAR.
Any editor can help review the articles on the list. Improvements needed should not be noted at URFA/2020 but can be instead noted in a section on the article talk page like == URFA 2020 suggestions == or == Featured article review needed==, and a diff to those notes can be provided at the URFA page. If article talk has been notified of deficiencies, it can eventually be submitted to WP:FAR.

It would be helpful if hurricane editors would first check the 2006 nominations listed below, and indicate at URFA/2020 which are still at standard (then moving on to 2007, and so on). Everyone is welcome and encouraged to review articles at FAR, and the more editors who engage, the sooner the backlog will be processed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:21, 1 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

@HurricaneTracker495, Jasper Deng, I like hurricanes, Weatherman27, LightandDark2000, Cyclonebiskit, SMB99thx, Juliancolton, TheAustinMan, Nova Crystallis, SMB99thx, Chicdat, ChessEric, Hurricane Noah, KN2731, Yellow Evan, Knowledgekid87, and CyclonicallyDeranged: - are any of you available to help look through the old FA's and help make sure they're still up to FA standards? I know a few of these are mine. Some of the main issues are going to be deadlinks, short sections, and any other issues you find. Please list them on the talk page. Thanks in advance! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:12, 4 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, Hurricanehink ... I'd like to get these ticked off the list. They don't have the scourge of other kinds of articles, which have been chunked up with useless images over the years, and generally just need a run-through to make sure things are still up to snuff. As soon as one hurricane editor reviews each on the list below, could one of you sign off at WP:URFA/2020 by indicating "Satisfactory", and I or others will then come along and look in ? These should be among the easiest to remove from the older FAs list. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:35, 4 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I would be willing to take a look at a few of these, when I am ready.🌀Weatherman27🏈 (Chat|Edits|sandbox) 17:25, 4 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Hurricanehink: I don't have any articles in mind at the moment, but I do recall reading a handful that are no longer up to GA/FA standards. Take Hurricane Catarina, for example. I don't feel like that article currently meets GA requirements (needs more met info). LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 22:16, 4 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

There are a lot of borderline good articles, but I believe we should focus on maintaining these featured articles. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 23:01, 4 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

And pace yourselves :) Once the 2006 FAs are processed at WP:URFA/2020, we will move on to 2007 ... and so on. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:11, 4 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

I'm busy with tornado articles right now, but I'll help when I can.ChessEric (talk · contribs) 01:46, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Yes! I'll do a few. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 11:24, 5 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

FAs last reviewed in 2006

@Hurricanehink: maybe over the weekend. But not today. Also I might be doing CVUA. I also have tests/quizzes next week. HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 15:25, 4 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

It doesn't have to be this weekend- this is just another one of our long term projects. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:27, 4 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Has there been any progress here? I would like to begin reviewing the oldest to get some moved off of WP:URFA/2020. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:41, 23 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

I was looking over the various "XXXX Pacific/Atlantic hurricane season" articles, and note that many of them share similar issues with unsourced sections. Most noticeably, the "Storm names" and "Season effects" sections towards the bottom tend to be unsourced or undersourced. Many of the articles also seem a bit shorter and emptier than more recent articles in these series, but dealing with the unsourced sections would probably go a long way into patching up these articles. CMD (talk) 16:44, 16 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

I'll be reviewing one of those articles, 2003 Pacific hurricane season, to FAR. If I have time to do so. Mario Jump 83! 08:40, 14 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Upcoming merger of WPTC and other meteorology WikiProjects into WikiProject Weather

Latest comment: 3 years ago45 comments18 people in discussion

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

This is a very odd RfC to evaluate. Overall there is broad agreement that there are significant issues with the current involvement and coverage of weather-related topics. This merger proposal is the proposed solution to address these issues. Much of the support for it was stated with little elaboration on reasons for that support so may be taken to agree with those premises. The most substantial arguments in opposition are that the proposed merger does not actually address that participation issue but further discussion led to all almost all the opposition to being withdrawn or amended. After that discussion played out, there emerged a clear (although in the case of some discussion participants, reluctant) consensus to proceed with the merger of the wikiprojects. (non-admin closure) Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:05, 23 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Last year, there was a discussion held on whether or not to merge all of the existing meteorology WikiProjects (with the exception of the Climate Change WikiProject) into a larger WikiProject, WikiProject Weather. The discussion ended with a slight consensus to merge the various WikiProjects into one. The discussion was held because the Meteorology WikiProjects other than WPTC have long suffered from manpower and interest issues, with the WikiProjects besides WPTC and WP Severe Weather remaining either at minimal activity or becoming outright defunct. WPTC is currently the center of gravity of the Meteorology WikiProjects, in terms of both manpower and activity, and this will probably remain the case even after the merger. Right now, work is currently under way behind the scenes to prepare for the eventual merger, which will probably happen sometime this summer, within the next 1–3 months. Please see the linked discussion for more details. Essentially, the former WikiProjects will all become large task forces operating under WP Weather. Most of the existing WikiProject pages will remain, but will be renamed to task force pages, while the new WikiProject will be getting its own pages. The biggest changes will come in the overall categorization of articles and coordination between the various topics. After the merger, everything will be managed under one large umbrella, but the internal dynamics within each major task force/former WikiProject will remain pretty much the same, for the most part. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 04:37, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Note that the proposed changes involved in merging are turning weather projects into task forces for WP:WEATHER and moving over all project subpages. Article assessment will remain as it was, although in the case of WP:MET, it will be more organized. WP:WEATHER is designed to supersede WP:MET and fix the issues involved with it. The goal of this is to share resources and make cooperation easier considering how many articles have significant overlap. In the case of WP:SEVERE, I feel that a less ambiguous name should be discussed and chosen for it since almost all types of weather can be "severe weather". Noah^Talk 03:31, 7 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Survey

No! WikiProject Tropical Cyclones is a very distinct project of its own, do not merge it with any other WikiProject. If it isn't broken, then don't fix it. WikiProject Tropical cyclones has no problems, except possibly too many members. Therefore, don't merge it. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 10:06, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Chicdat: Almost every other weather project IS broken. Hell, even WP Met itself isn't really doing that great, which is concerning. The fact that we have several defunct or nearly dead projects is partly why we are bringing them all back together. It allows for easier organization and coordination. Noah^Talk 11:56, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

But can't we fix it in some other way? 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 11:58, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Support, per nom. I was in opposition back on August but I was unable to give my arguments against it thus I was silent regarding it. Now, I have fully changed ship and I'm in favor of it. Mario Jump 83! 12:32, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Support While I initially opposed this idea, I have changed my mind and am now in support of the merger. – 🌀Hurricane Covid🌀 _(contribs) 17:36, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Support Iff the existing wikiproject talk page templates do not get modified. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 19:27, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Neutral on the proposed merger. As long as the internal structure changes little to none (e.g. a merger that is practically in name only), I guess I could support it. Even though I feel that WPTC should be left as its own WikiProject (maybe combined with WPNTS). I presume that this merger will be a "light" one, given what I've been told by the users who proposed the merger, so I do not feel that it is problematic in and of itself. However, I do not feel that this proposal will automatically resolve the root issues that it was formulated to address. Editor recruitment/retention and interest in the non-cyclone topics is and will continue to be a major hurdle going forward, merger or no merger. I don't think a merger will solve any of those issues by itself. Yes, a WikiProject will probably improve our categorization of the articles, WikiProject work awareness, and maybe even help out a little with the coordination, but that will probably be it for the immediate benefits. What we really need here is a massive undertaking to get more editors to join us and to keep the ones we have from leaving in the first place (outside of real-life issues). And maybe a project to help get users interested in and working on other weather articles as well. I think that these editor-based initiatives would be better suited to addressing our workforce and user interest issues. The proposed merger could definitely solve some of our problems and even make some of our ongoing work easier, but I really don't see how it will address any of the underlying root issues with our workforce. WPTC is currently the nucleus of the Met WikiProjects right now. Even after the merger, the "former" WPTC roster will continue to overwhelmingly dominate the membership and the activity of the new WikiProject Weather. By the way, I feel that we should get more of a wider discussion on this proposal from our own WPTC editors (and maybe other Met users as well), as it appears that not many of them were actually aware of the original discussion. I do not feel that we should actually go through with a merger unless the said merger is agreed to by a wide consensus. If this happens, I know that many of our active users will take issue with it. However, it appears that we are indeed heading towards a general consensus to merge the weather WikiProjects. Regardless, we should hear the input of more of our fellow editors first. I will not oppose the WikiProject mergers if that is what our editors want, but truthfully, I don't think that this proposal will solve our editor issues in the non-cyclone areas of the Met WikiProjects. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 20:33, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Support I originally opposed this. However, I see the full argument presented, and it's true -- many weather projects are suffering from a lack of people. While I do have a very special connection with WPTC, I realize that no matter what, it will not matter if it is merged or not. CodingCyclone! 🌀 📘 21:04, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
VERY strong oppose - Do not merge · No. WikiProject Tropical Cyclones, among others, focus specifically on certain divisions of weather; this helps to give more focus by persons interested in one or more of said divisions to focus on them. All above opposes, otherwise, I concur with. ~ AC5230 talk 04:44, 7 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@AC5230: I want to explain that those divisions aren't going away. One project doesn't mean that suddenly there are no more divisions for specific topics. These divisions will continue to exist, just in a slightly different manner than they do now. Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history is a good example of the planned organization with its numerous task forces for different topics. We don't need as many taskforces as they have since we have significantly fewer members to go around, but that shows how divisions can still exist within a single project based on topics or interests. Noah^Talk 10:47, 7 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Nevermind then. It does not matter whether I oppose it or not, I do not have a choice; the merger will occur anyways. I'll also have to jump on the Support bandwagon. ~ AC5230 talk 14:05, 7 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

No. So you're turning the fifteen year old WikiProject Tropical cyclones into a redirect to this lump of unrelated topics without even considering other users' views. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 10:08, 8 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
- @Chicdat: You need to remember that tropical cyclones are not unique and are a part of meteorology that cause floods, tornados etc. As a result, the topics are not unrelated as you claim and yes we are considering other peoples views but when the benefits outweigh the arguments presented, what are we supposed to do...
  - Very reluctant yes I've decided that I'm going to do as much as I can for Wikiproject Weather, and not against it. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 11:56, 18 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Support Just for the record I do support merging all of these projects together as there is a lot of project rot and article rot going on. This would help us pool our resources. Noah^Talk 20:34, 8 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Neutral, I think this is necessary for the sake of the other Meteorology projects, although I am unhappy to see WPTC merged.--🌀Kieran207-talk 🌀 00:57, 20 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

I'm not that happy, but times do change. This isn't 2000s, we are entering 2020s. Mario Jump 83! 09:41, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Oppose – This will change nothing, so what is the point? Combining all these projects together isn’t going to improve anything. The same people are going to work on the same articles, so the “pooling resources” argument makes no sense. This is just a case of fixing something that isn’t really broken. United States Man (talk) 12:05, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
- @United States Man: This really is a case of trying to fix what is broken and improve standards across the board, as we have a massive blind spot when it comes to floods and the coverage of the weather outside of tropical cyclones and the United States. You may not like it and could argue that pooling our resources and combining these projects into one isn't going to improve anything, except it already has given us a better idea on what articles we have around the various projects and what we need going forwards to become a better wikiproject.Jason Rees (talk) 13:47, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
  - I don’t agree with you. That’s not a surprise because I don’t ever remember agreeing with you on anything. Lie to yourself all you want, but all that’s gonna happen is a bunch of the same. Tropical cyclones and tornadoes will be the main articles and everything else will be lagging behind. It will be no different than it is now, so this is all just an unnecessary change to fix something that isn’t broken. Just because you think it’s broken doesn’t mean it is. United States Man (talk) 22:13, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
    - @United States Man: I firmly believe that Wikipedia's coverage of the weather is broken and needs to be fixed and no this isn't me lying to myself, as I'm not the only one who feels that Wikipedia's coverage of the weather needs improving and that this is the best way of doing so. In fact we have external sources telling us that Wikipedia's coverage of the weather is broken. As a result, I firmly believe that this is not an unnecessary change but a long overdue one, especially since the projects as they stand are confusing and so broad that I would not be surprised if people were put off from joining them. As I have previously said what is a non-tropical storm - a tropical depression? a tropical cyclone? a hurricane? What is severe weather - flooding? a tropical cyclone? an extratropical cyclone? You may not like the approach that we are trying to take but I strongly feel that by working together, pooling our resources and combining these projects into one is the best route forward and do not need you telling us that we are wasting our time just because you don't like it. In fact your comments just spur me on with the merger as people have told me before, that no one wanted to work on tropical cyclones in the JTWC AOR but we now have people working on them. Jason Rees (talk) 23:08, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Are you going to work on the parts of this that you say are so bad? You can't be all talk up front and then be MIA when it's time to work on this stuff. I really only see you working with tropical cyclones. My whole point is that simply combining these projects isn't going to fix what you say is broken. Combined or not, users are still going to work on the exact same articles they always have. The same goes for me; my interest and knowledge mainly lies with U.S.-centric events (hence, my username). So, I just don't feel this will accomplish and/or change anything in the long run. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like I'm probably right. United States Man (talk) 23:16, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

I am well aware that I can't be all talk up-front and be MIA, when the time comes to work on this stuff and while I mainly work with TC's, I have already started to look into and work on articles for Floods in Fiji, Fiji's tornado's as well as its [climate]. Yes some people will continue to work on the same sort of articles that they always have, but others won't and I am encouraged to see articles such as 2020 Zagreb flash flood, the Weather in 2020 and others pop up. I realise that we are taking a very big bite of the cherry here but the rewards are endless if we get it right: as an example, I was able to liaise with the RA V TCC and get the name: Yolanda changed to Yasa and push back over the name Sina being added to the naming lists for the SPAC in replace of Sarai. I should also note that these articles will hopefully take some of the pressure of the tropical cyclone seasons in the WPAC and NIO, by allowing us to take some the impacts of the monsoon away from the TC's.Jason Rees (talk) 23:46, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Just chiming in, it's OK if people continue only editing their preferred area of speciality. We have the same thing with some people only editing articles in a certain basin. There are going to be discussions on an article-by-article basis, and there are going to be discussions that affect the entire project. In that latter category, we are rarely talking about topics that only affect tropical cyclones. For example, the hurricane track map is used in other projects. Most links and project resources are useful for every project. If there are issues in TC articles, then a similar issue is likely also affecting nor'easters, blizzards, severe weather, and flood articles, because all of these weather events have some overlap. United States Man (talk · contribs), you mentioned your focus on US events, which makes sense. A lot of people focus on a certain area. Jason mentioned Fiji, but he should've mentioned the United States. By having all weather articles together, we can have a project focus on all of the different weather events in the United States, such as tornadoes by each state, which I think is a doable goal. We have lists for tropical cyclones in almost every coastal state - only Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, South Carolina, and Virginia don't have dedicated lists. I think one of the best things a WikiProject can offer is these large ambitious goals. We'll still have goals like the featured topic for storms in 2018, and for every retired storm. By having concrete goals and documenting their progress, we will one day have the best weather database/directory/encyclopedia anywhere in existence. That is a noble goal. The tropical cyclone project has arguable already done that, given that there are over 3,000 articles, hundreds of lists, individual season articles going very far back. People routinely cite and use our work, and the WPTC members should be proud of their work. I think we can aim for something bigger, using the great standards we already have in the tropical cyclone project, to imagine a better Wikipedia with this top-down focus of all weather events being a shared goal. Yes, some people will still have their topics of interest. We should encourage that and try fostering editing talent for all weather types. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:14, 10 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Support Supportstorm (talk) 17:44, 31 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Strong Support I think this will be a good thing for Wikipedia and for our project. 🌀Cyclone Football71🏈 |sandbox 06:35, 13 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Discussions

Questions and comments are welcome below. (Please do not fire off questions at me, since I am not aware of all the details and I only recently learned of that discussion.) This thread should not be archived until after the entire merger process has been completed. LightandDark2000 🌀 (talk) 04:37, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Chicdat: Why should we though as WPTC isnt that distinct and has a large overlap with NTS, Floods, Tornados etc. Jason Rees (talk) 12:15, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Sorry. Still oppose and not changing my mind. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 12:16, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Chicdat: Stop going down the lines of WP:I don't like and explain why we should have separate wikiprojects for Non tropical storms, flooding, tropical cyclones etc when there is such a large overlap. For example some TCs cause floods and Tornados which means that they would be classified Jason Rees (talk) 12:22, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

It's fine for articles to have two WikiProject templates on the talk page. For instance, floods caused by a tropical storm could be classified by both Wikiproject Floods and WPTC, as is happening right now. Just like there are alternatives for deletion, there are also alternatives for merging. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 12:26, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Just asking here: When would this merge happen? Regards, LowercaseGuy chow! 13:44, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@LowercaseGuy: from what I have seen, the merger will happen within the next 1-3 months, per @LightandDark2000: 🌀Cyclone Football71🏈 |sandbox 13:55, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@LowercaseGuy: This likely will take multiple months to complete. There will only be a few people doing all the changeovers so things don't get messed up or too confusing, but it will be a multi-month process. We have to make sure everything is setup correctly and functioning before the merge formally happens. I can tell you that the defunct and mostly dead projects will be the first ones to merge and WPTC will be the last one to fully integrate over. This will be a behind-the-scenes process for a while so nobody should worry too much. Noah^Talk 13:59, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Quick question: will the task forces keep the same names as they currently are as WikiProjects (Tropical cyclones, Non-tropical storms, floods, severe weather, climate) or will the names change? – 🌀Hurricane Covid🌀 _(contribs) 17:39, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@HurricaneCovid: Personally I think that some of the task forces will be better of being renamed. For example what is a non tropical storm? A hurricane? A tropical depression? Ultimately I would like us to establish taskforce for tornadoes, floods etc. Jason Rees (talk) 19:35, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

I have some question: Once the WikiProjects are merged, how the Hurricane Herald, Frozen Times, and the Tornado Tribune will be run? As a single large newsletter, like The Signpost, or remain separate? Mario Jump 83! 22:30, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@MarioJump83: What? I thought the Storming News got renamed to Tornado Tribune. They don't both exist at the same time. Also you forgot Frozen Times. – 🌀Hurricane Covid🌀 _(contribs) 23:57, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Forgot. Mario Jump 83! 23:58, 6 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

So the discussion about ITN highlights the need for a few things. One, we need to have an article for every weather type for every part of the world, such as List of Indonesia tropical cyclones, List of Egypt floods, or List of New Zealand tornadoes. Second, we need to have a page to highlight actual weather records (and not just the every day high and low temperatures, rainfall, stuff of trivial nature) - this would eventually be organized in an article like Weather of 2020 (for which there needs to be a 2021 one). To better figure out what's going on in a yearly basis, we would have yearly articles for every weather event, such as Tropical cyclones in 2021, Tornadoes in 2021, whatnot. Having coordination between all of these projects could help cross-reference the weather events for every year and area... eventually. Next, we need to have a main page to the portal to highlight current events, such as recent landfalling tropical cyclones, but also deadly floods, wildfires, and tornado events. As mentioned above, there is significant overlap between tropical cyclones and these other projects, which is why they should all be part of the same WikiProject. Some advantages: more reviewers for GA/A/FAs, a more centralized repository of weblinks (covering every weather type in every part of the world, which is useful if you're looking for just Bermuda, or if you're looking for just tornadoes), bringing more users into the same project could lead to collaborations that otherwise might not have occurred. The online weather community is large, but it's not infinite. There's Facebook, Storm2k, Force 13, and other various groups and websites, all sharing the same information that we try collating into articles here. If all weather events were in the same project, then I believe we could bring together people worldwide in a much more productive fashion. We could still have task forces, such as for just Atlantic hurricanes, or just for blizzards, or just for wildfires. Some of us have preferences, and we should encourage everyone to edit based on what they're most passionate about. A lot of times, that is what they know, so of course our coverage is going to skew more recent. However, having a more worldwide and top-down approach would help fill in gaps. It's a big undertaking, but I think we can if we all get on the same page. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:29, 7 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Note: If you think that the mere merging of Wikiprojects will solve the problems of people power on non-TC wikiprojects, then you misunderstand why WPTC has more resources and where and how they manifest. Seddon ^talk 18:39, 14 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Re @Seddon:, the intention of merging the WikiProjects is to unify all weather articles in the same project. There already is a lot of overlap, such as the map generator (used also by extratropical cyclones), links (think of NCDC or other links that are useful for TC's and all other weather types), and the fact that tropical cyclones often overlap with tornadoes, non-tropical storms, and floods. Having a larger weather project means more reviewers, and having more users in the same broad project means we could have more collaborations that otherwise might not have occurred. Sure, some people interested in tropical cyclones will still probably only edit tropical cyclones. That's fine. By that logic, we should just have a Wikiproject for Atlantic tropical cyclones, because there are people who only edit Atlantic tropical cyclones. I believe the WPTC has also run into a bit of a wall over the past few years. The global and historical coverage has gotten quite good, but that's only one small part of the picture. We still need a lot of top-down articles, such as lists by area (TC's in Bermuda), or lists by year. The lists by area work well alongside other weather types by area. If every article in the WPTC was a GA or FA, but the rest of the weather articles are only starts and stubs, then there is a huge gap on the website. Tropical cyclones are just one part of a much bigger picture. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:16, 14 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

As I just said offwiki, in my opinion it would be premature to close this discussion until some editors active in the other (non-WPTC) affected wikiprojects have offered their opinions. Maybe individual user talk page notices would help that along. Enterprisey (talk!) 23:38, 12 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Canvassing within the WikiProject

Latest comment: 3 years ago11 comments4 people in discussion

I've noticed that, ever since I have joined the WikiProject, there are some proposals, like merger proposals (especially for the Atlantic hurricane mergers, which tend to have attention from members outside WikiProject Tropical cyclones) and especially, FleurDeOdile TBAN proposal, always resulted in some sort of consensus whose editors came from this WikiProject. While other WikiProject members notify their WikiProjects for some proposals, like what I did in Template:Ongoing protests (deleted), in here we use our Discord server to notify other members of this WikiProject basically. To me, this is basically stealth canvassing. I believe this is a problem which doesn't do any good to this WikiProject. Mario Jump 83! 01:38, 2 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

While I agree that there might be canvassing of sorts in some areas, I have to ask to what that means in regards to actions taken for the users who don't use discord, like myself. I haven't used discord in many years, and I definitely haven't used it since joining WP. As for the FDO discussion, I happened to stumble across that while looking through ANI, which I do pretty regularly. That discussion also appears to be mainly consisting of users within the WP, due to looking through contributions and also looking through ANI, while there might be canvassing involved to. I think the abundance of editors from our Wikiproject seems larger in a sense because of the lack of outside attention, which seems to be a common theme when it comes to discussions regarding our editors. However, it does not help when our editors do things like this instance of what Chlod called "brigading" from WPTC members to (unsuccessfully) get an ITN nomination shot down. (Per Chlod, on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Archive 46#Unacceptable behavior from some WPTC members and non-weather users.🌀Cyclone Football71🏈 |sandbox 15:07, 2 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Great disclosure, though brigading is also a serious problem, too. We need a solution for this one to prevent such things from happening again. Mario Jump 83! 23:13, 2 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

I agree. I will note however, that while I agree that there is not enough enough attention to weather disasters, whilst other articles of far-less notability get frequently put onto the ITN main page more so than tropical cyclones that cause severe damage and/or death , the way it was executed to try and bring attention to that was very poor, and we should have some sort of guidelines for putting/nominating tropical cyclone/weather articles for ITN, so that we may be more successful at getting these articles on the main page. 🌀Cyclone Football71🏈 |sandbox 02:21, 3 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Not just that, however we need something more than that. We need some guidelines about how we conduct ourselves when it comes to serious discussions. Mario Jump 83! 03:15, 3 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

I agree, however I do not have anything in particular as of now that we could put; did you have any particular guideline ideas that we could use regarding user conduct, such as like actions taken a user who demonstrates poor conduct or actions? 🌀Cyclone Football71🏈 |sandbox 03:41, 3 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

My idea is to get more discussions inside here, and for Discord users, make less discussions on Discord. Mario Jump 83! 04:25, 3 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

~~Sounds like a plan.~~ You'd need to update the discord server rules (or whomever is in charge of that there) to reflect that.(On here of course we'd need to let users know as well) 🌀Cyclone Football71🏈 |sandbox 04:43, 3 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

I am never on Discord, and find those discussions via Article Alerts. 🏳️‍🌈 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 10:50, 10 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

I’m a strong opponent of making binding decisions off-wiki. The biggest drawback is said consensus cannot be referred to if asked by an external party. I would also encourage editors to have independent policy-based reasoning for all comments, rather than blindly following another’s proposal. —Jasper Deng (talk) 20:32, 8 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

True, I didn't think of that part. 🌀Cyclone Football71🏈 |sandbox 23:10, 10 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Tropical Storm Linfa listed at Requested moves

Latest comment: 3 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Tropical Storm Linfa to be moved to Tropical Storm Linfa (2020). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 13:51, 3 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

I made a new draft

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I started a draft for Tropical Storm Dolores because it is likely to impact mexico soon. Here is the link: Draft:Tropical Storm Dolores. Gummycow ^moo _milk 16:33, 18 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Sorry @Gummycow:, I just saw this. Me, you, and @HurricaneEdgar: can take responsibility for the creation of it. Jay Tee 🕊️🇺🇸 04:11, 19 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

The 10 most-viewed, worst-quality articles according to this Wikiproject

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

250 Pre-1890 North Indian Ocean cyclone seasons 2,489 80 Stub Low
314 1881 Haiphong typhoon 1,837 59 Stub High
424 Cyclonic rotation 1,218 39 Stub Mid
466 Convergence zone 1,068 34 Stub Low
487 Post-tropical cyclone 1,021 32 Stub Mid
494 Indian Institute of Tropical Meteorology 1,003 32 Stub Mid
506 1971 Odisha cyclone 975 31 Stub High
528 1960 Pacific typhoon season 914 29 Stub Mid
529 1945 Pacific typhoon season 906 29 Stub Mid
530 Hurricane party 901 29 Stub Low

Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Popular pages--Coin945 (talk) 06:09, 19 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Maybe the project should improve them. 🏳️‍🌈 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 10:19, 20 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Rough plan for carrying out the merger

Latest comment: 3 years ago6 comments4 people in discussion

Below is a rough plan for how certain aspects of the project merger will be carried out. It is still very much preliminary and subject to change and more additions will likely come. Noah^Talk 17:29, 24 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Organization

WPTC will become a task force (technical) underneath WP Weather, named "Tropical Cyclones Project" and treated as a subproject
Taskforces for ATL, EPAC, WPAC, NIO, and SHEM will be kept entirely

These will be added to the weather project banner and have wikiwork generated for them
Renamed to workgroups and will be nested underneath tropical cyclone task force

Graphics, anomalous cyclones, and 2018 FT taskforces will be partially deprecated (in the case of anom cyclones) or otherwise remain the same (in the case of the graphics and 2018 FT)

Also renamed to workgroups
Not included on the wikiproject talkpage banner
Graphics will actually be removed from underneath tropical cyclones and serve for the whole weather community.

Season articles, storm article, and meteorology task forces will be entirely deprecated

Season and storm article taskforces aren't widely used as most collaboration is done by basin
Meteorology task force will be superseded by the general meteorology and meteorological instruments and data task forces
These will be kept for historical purposes

Assessment, Guidelines & Resources

All assessment will be standardized across all of weather with one set of assessment guidelines and a single page for A-class reviews/removals
All resources will be on a single page for all of weather
Style guidelines will be developed for different types of weather, however, they will be located on the same page

Project pages

All project pages will be kept and moved over accordingly (no deletions)
The WPTC talkpage will still function as a place for TC related discussions
Certain pages will be modified or deprecated (major ones mentioned above)

Discussion

Any discussion related to the plan should take place here if need be. Noah^Talk 17:29, 24 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Is there a confirmed date for the beginning of the merger?--🌀Locomotive207-talk🌀 01:19, 25 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Proposal #2

I propose an alternate to Noah's plan above. Although there is clear (yet rather local) consensus for merging of the project, I suggest retaining WPTC as a subproject of WP Weather. An example of this is WikiProject Louisiana, which shares a talk page banner with WikiProject United States. If this proposal were to be carried out, WPTC articles will still be categorized under Wikiproject Weather, but supported by WPTC. This will retain WPTC's name and subpages.

WPTC is a large wikiproject with numerous task forces and subpages (including its own newsletter). It also has a rather long history, having celebrated its 15th anniversary several months ago. I personally think that this is a win-win proposal, as some users have expressed reluctance about merging WPTC. I'd like to hear your thoughts about this proposal @Hurricane Noah, Jason Rees, Hurricanehink, United States Man, MarioJump83, CycloneFootball71, CodingCyclone, Chicdat, LightandDark2000, TornadoLGS, ChessEric, AC5230, Seddon, HurricaneCovid, Nova Crystallis, Locomotive207, Supportstorm, Jasper Deng, and HurricaneParrot: and anyone else whom I missed. ~ Destroyeraa 🌀🇺🇸 01:32, 25 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Destroyeraa: *GASP* HEY BRO! WELCOME BACK! GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN!...Oh whoops sorry. Got carried away. LOL! Anyway, I like this proposal you made. The WPTC is a large enough project to stay on its own. In fact, I believe all large projects under the WPWeather should have subsections.ChessEric (talk · contribs) 01:29, 25 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

@ChessEric: Thanks for the warm welcome!! ~ Destroyeraa 🌀🇺🇸 01:32, 25 June 2021 (UTC)Reply