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En-dash and em-dash

Baffle gab1978 I thought I had asked you a few weeks ago why you used the en-dash and em-dash templates {{ndash}} and {{mdash}}, and you said it was just easier than typing the code for a no-break space and then the en-dash, but that they were essentially the same. I replied that I liked seeing the en-dash or em-dash in the edit window because it helped in editing. Was it you who I asked about that? I have looked on my talk page and in the last two or three archives, but I can't find it. I'm asking because another editor, Checkingfax, changed a no-break space plus en-dash to two separate templates, one for the no-break space and one for the en-dash, in Allegra Versace: [1]. I want to know if there is a good reason for using those templates instead of a no-break space and then en-dash. Also, what does the {{mdash}} accomplish that an em-dash (—) doesn't? Corinne (talk) 01:20, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Corinne, a Bot came through many pages I had edited and removed the HTML sequence codes like   commenting that they were "invisible Unicodes" which they are not, so now I just replace those codes with templates when I see them. The templates that are wrapped in curly braces just lead back to the same HTML sequence codes, but the Bot can't see that.

I just make my first template that combines a non-breaking-space, an en dash, and another non-breaking-space in to one tiny template. Here's the shortcut for it: {{snds}}. Note: (mnemonic: s= space, nd= ndash, s= space). I created several other mnemonic shorthands to pull it up. The full template name is: Spaced en dash space.

I'm still working on the documentation for it, so some of it does not apply. I cloned it and edited it from the {{snd}} template documentation.

I don't have an endash or mdash on my keyboard, and the ones we can click on in the edit window don't land at my desired insertion point and I have to go find them and then copy/paste them to the correct spot.

In summary, I stopped using the HTML sequence codes directly because the bot was replacing them anyway. I hope you find a use for my brand new template too. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 02:18, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax Hmmm... Very interesting. I'm surprised you don't have an en-dash or em-dash on your keyboard. All sorts of useful things, including those, are right below my edit window when I'm in Edit Mode. Do you see, under where it says "Save page", "Preview", and "Changes", and below that is "This is a minor edit" and "Watch this page", and below that "Common edit summaries - click to use"? Below that, at the left side, is a box. if you click on the tiny black arrow, a menu opens up. If you click "Wiki markup" to select it, you will see all the useful things to the right of the word "Insert". Then, when you want to use one, such as the en-dash, you put your cursor where you want to insert the en-dash (with a click), then click on the en-dash. Sometimes (especially when I'm working on a long article and am making a lot of edits that I don't want to lose if something goes wrong), I highlight what I want to replace the en-dash with, and then click on the en-dash. For example, if I want to change an em-dash to an en-dash, I highlight the em-dash and then click on the en-dash (from the list of symbols, etc., after "Insert").

The reason I use no-break-space, and then en-dash, and then a regular space, is because if the en-dash comes at the end of a line, I want the en-dash to stay just to the right of the last word. I don't want the en-dash to appear at the beginning of the next line. The regular space after the en-dash ensures that the line will break after the en-dash. I wonder, with your template that has the space in the template, whether it will allow a line-break after the en-dash. I don't know what happens with an em-dash. I don't know whether the template mdash automatically allows a line-break after the em-dash, or whether the word just before and the word just after the em-dash stay stuck to the em-dash. I usually use the spaced en-dash instead of an em-dash anyway; I like what it looks like better. Corinne (talk) 02:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Corinne, yes I've tried using those wiki markup buttons, but my laptop and my mobile phone both lose their insertion point and the wiki markup lands wherever it pleases, so I gave up using it.

My new macro template {{snds}} (or one of its many aliases) will be helpful for words like where you want both words to stay conjoined but you want a space on both sides of the en dash. I come across a lot of articles that have regular-space/hyphen/regular-space and my template would serve those. If you want the 2nd word to wrap on to the next line if needed you should use the {{snd}} template instead. That one puts a regular space after the en dash so the word will still line wrap. My new template puts a non-breaking space before and after the en dash. As for em dash, if you put a regular space before and after it, then it will break before or after the em dash as the line space dictates. The {{snd}} template is more suited than mine if you have long lists of en dash spaced items inside a table or such and you want them to break in to natural paragraphs but always ending each line with an en dash. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 03:42, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

(←) Hi Corinne; yes it was me you asked about the dashes, but I can't find the conversation right now and I can't remember where we had it either. {{mdash}} doesn't do anything special; it renders —; I normally subst it (type {{subst:mdash}} to leave an actual mdash in the code. The same isn't true of {{spaced ndash}}, which renders & n b s p ; & n d a s h ; & # 3 2 ; (minus spaces) when substed. I also prefer seeing the actual dashes in the code, but I'm lazy and don't want to have to type & n b s p ; – all the time, or fish out an ndash from the character map (as I just did!). Each to their own, I s'pose, and it's all valid code. :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 04:29, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Here we go: [User_talk:Baffle_gab1978/Archives/1#Indian_National_Congress its here]. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 05:28, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Baffle gab1978 and Checkingfax, both. Checkingfax, I may use one of your templates from time to time. I'll try it out. Regarding your difficulty in inserting an en-dash, I also use a laptop, and I discovered that the cursor moves and other things change if I don't hit the key to lock/disable the built-in pad, the one you use with your finger. (I use a mouse.) If I don't lock/disable that pad, then while I'm working, my hand will inadvertently touch that pad and all sorts of crazy things will happen such as the screen zooming out or scrolling down when I don't want it to, and difficulty getting the cursor to stay where I want it to. Of course, if you're used to using that pad and not a mouse, you can't lock/disable it. Regarding the em-dash, according to MOS:ENDASH, an em-dash is supposed to be unspaced, that is, no space either side of it, so when I see a spaced em-dash, I remove the spaces. If it comes at the end of a line, I'd rather it break before the dash than after it, but I suppose it's not a big deal if it doesn't. I just wondered if one of the templates for the em-dash ensured that it broke at the end of a line (right after the em-dash and before the next word), even without a space being there. Corinne (talk) 13:17, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

---

Sticky on the left, loose on the right em dash

CC: Natalie.Desautels
Dear Corinne, I made a sticky on the left, loose on the right em dash template, using a zero width joiner on the left, and a zero width non-joiner on the right, and an em dash in the middle.

The template is a mouthful: {{zero width joiner em dash zero width non joiner}} (click on the blue link to see the documentation).

I created three shortcuts for it including: {{nsmdns}}

The mnemonic for that is: no-space m-dash no-space

You put no space before the template and no space after the template. I hope you like it. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 15:23, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax Wow! Just like that, you made a new template? I'm so impressed! Did you make all those others, with the various sized bullets, too? What's the "tlx" at the beginning of the template (in edit mode)? Corinne (talk) 16:39, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Dear Corinne, no I've only made two simple templates so far. Those others were already there.

The tlx keeps the template from "firing" on this talk page. Click on blue link {{tlx}} to read the documentation on that. On a Talk page without the tlx the template show up as the end result (an em dash). tlx is a way to display the template. It's a bit confusing to me because if somebody looks at the code they might copy the tlx part too when all they really want is the nsmdns part of the template. There are other ways to display templates without them "firing" like: tl, tlq, etc. Each one displays a different way or has limitations, like tl is similar to tlx but tl does not allow any piping within the template or it will truncate the displayed template. You can use nowiki too to keep them from firing, but then they don't show up with a blue clickable link like tlx or tl allows. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 23:20, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Corinne, More on using {{tlx}} when showing a template example: in your copy/edit cheat sheet up above if you use this code:

{{tlx|convert|13100000|km2}} it will render like this:

{{convert|13100000|km2}} which will make the word "convert" show up as a blue clickable link that will take you to the "convert" documentation page that will show you all the various parameters for the "convert" template. Take out the nowiki tags around the first example of the template, and replace it with the tlx and the pipe, then the word "convert" will light up in blue and the tlx will not render (you won't see it when you look at your cheat sheet). I find it's handy to be able to quickly get to the various "convert" parameters that way. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 20:43, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax Thank you! This is helpful to know, but I decided to keep the example conversion templates for high numbers separate from the link so that an editor who wants to use them doesn't think they have to put in the "tlx" and create that blue link to the conversion template page. They, or I, can just use the template as it is, just changing the numbers as needed. I had already kind of memorized most of the common conversion templates; it was the high numbers and the square kilometers that I sometimes couldn't remember. But it's always good to have that direct link to the conversion template page. Several times I haven't been able to find it. I wonder if you would look at the way I formatted it above. Is there any way that the link to the conversion templates could be made other than with curly brackets? Corinne (talk) 21:53, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Allegra Versace

Checkingfax I was surprised when I saw these two edits to Allegra Versace: [2] and the next edit, [3]. In the first one, you changed a hyphen to an en-dash between "long" and "standing". This word can be one word. See [4], or it can be a hyphenated word (see the alternate spelling in that Wiktionary entry), but I have never seen it with an en-dash. I really think you should change that back. In the second edit, you changed a hyphen to an en-dash between "ex" and "fashion model", in the noun (or noun-as-adjective) "ex-fashion model". That's a normal use of a hyphen. See all the example words at [5]. I don't understand why you changed it to an en-dash. I hope you'll consider changing it back to a hyphen. Best regards, Corinne (talk) 17:34, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Dear Corinne, let me do more research on when a hyphen is required. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 23:23, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Dear Corinne, OK I made the requested changes at Allegra Versace. Sorry about that.

I also made a new template to make a no-space bold middot: {{bolddot}}. That is just one of the shortcuts to the actual template name. It's sticky on the left, and will allow word wrap on the right.

Can you do me a favor and help out a friend to actually copy-edit the lead for the Michael Laucke article? Everything in the lead is well researched and well referenced in the body, but the lead sentence structure and flow is still a bit awkward. Whatever grabs you, just fix it. Thank you.

PS: I finally figured out to do interwiki links properly. For longstanding you do: [[wikt:longstanding]] or you can do [[wikt:longstanding|]] or if you forget the abbreviation, you can do: [[wiktionary:longstanding]] or [[wiktionary:longstanding|]]. In the second examples, the pipe is a "magic" pipe which makes the colons disappear and what comes before the colons disappear too. In all cases you don't get that blue flag in the upper right corner of the link either‍—‌it just looks like a regular wikilink.

If you want to do long links for interwiki or for diffs the guidelines also tell us to strip off the https: part and only leave the remaining link from the //. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 06:43, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax Oh... Thank you! I hope I can remember all this. Corinne (talk) 15:03, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Checkingfax I am ready to work on the lead in the Michael Laucke article, but I see you are working on the article, so I'll wait. I'm sorry I didn't get to it right away. I had things to do today, and when I finally logged in to WP, I felt I ought to finish the article I had been working on (Urumi (film)) before I started anything else. Corinne (talk) 00:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Corinne, can you copy edit the whole Michael Laucke article? BTW, it's already getting 5000 page views a month! Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 01:44, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

CE

Hello there! I was looking for a copy-editor for Sonam Kapoor. A wiki-friend of mine suggested me to ask you. Would you mind copyediting (it's been already ce'd by a user so it's looking much better)? -- Frankie _talk 14:38, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Frankie Thank you for your request. Have you already posted a request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests? If not, would you do that, and if another editor hasn't accepted the assignment before I do, I'd be glad to look at it. I'll be looking for the request. Corinne (talk) 15:29, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I would bother GOCE if it were not at FAC at the moment (GOCE takes a long time to consider a request). But I did post it outside GOCE and I wasn't lucky enough to get a response. -- Frankie _talk 20:12, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

FrB.TG I can only accept one assignment at the GOCE requests page at a time, but I'm between articles right now. I've just finished one article and haven't yet accepted another one. If you post a request right now, I will go to the requests page and accept the assignment. I'm just curious: is there a time limit or some kind of deadline on this? Also, if your article is up for review for FA, isn't there a special peer-review page for those articles? Corinne (talk) 00:12, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Okay I've posted the request at GOCE. There isn't a deadline for FAC but if an article does not get a response for a long time, it might fail. Also, I am looking forward to your work. :-) -- Frankie _talk 07:50, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

FrB.TG Oh, my gosh. I just realized that I had forgotten about your request and my promise to copy-edit this article. I will accept the assignment right now and get to work on it. Next time, feel free to remind me if I let too many days go by. Corinne (talk) 00:53, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

OMG again. I just realized that I had already copy-edited this article. I placed a GOCE template on the article's talk page on October 27, 2015. I guess I forgot to add the "Done" template on the Requests page. Let me know if you need help with anything in this article or any other articles. Corinne (talk) 00:57, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

You absolutely did not forget the copy-editing. It's just that your and the two others' copy-edit didn't satisfy some reviewers. Let's see if it attracts another copy-editor. Thanks very much for your copy-edit. -- Frankie _talk 14:20, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

TFAs for you, if you want them

• Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 28, 2015. - Dank (push to talk) 18:06, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank Thank you for your helpful edit summaries accompanying your copy-edits to this article. I will learn from them. Not that you need anyone to agree with you, but I agree with all of them. However, I hope you won't mind if I discuss one with you: [6]

Here is the sentence as it is now:

• Ants in these groups measure around 5 to 15 millimetres (0.20 to 0.59 inches) in length, apart from the larger queen ants.

I also don't like to see "being..." used too often, but the way it was worded before, with "..., with the queen ants being larger", was correct. Perhaps you have a particular reason for wanting to avoid it, but in any case I can understand if you prefer not to use it. If you really don't want that construction, I think another wording needs to be found because I don't think "apart from the larger queen ants" is right. The fact is right, but the construction isn't.

Perhaps:

• All ants of this species apart from the larger queen ants measure around 5 to 15 millimetres...in length.

Once you specify "ants in these groups" (i.e., the major and minor workers), you no longer need "apart from..."

Or:

• Ants in these groups measure around 5 to 15 millimetres...in length; the queen ants are larger.

Also, the heading for this section says, "TFAs for you, if you want them", but you only gave me a link to one article. Are there any others? Corinne (talk) 00:40, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Drat! I knew it didn't sound right but couldn't spot the error; thanks for that. I've fixed it. On the other question: yes, there will be others. - Dank (push to talk) 00:52, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Also: yes, "with the queen ants being larger" was correct. Just FYI, it's hard for me to explain the whole ranges of responses we get at FAC to "with" + a present participle. All I can do is just make a judgment call when I see it. - Dank (push to talk) 01:01, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank I understand. I also think that construction should be used sparingly, but I don't think it is incorrect. It's just got to be used in the right place, and not very often. But if there is widespread objection to it, I can see why it would be easier to avoid it altogether. [See below for response to your other comment.]

• Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 29, 2015: This one has 787 chars so it will need to be a little longer. We get a lot of FAs tagged by WP:MA. The prose tends to be quite good, but they can be technical sometimes; are you interested in these? - Dank (push to talk) 00:55, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank First, I'm glad you weren't upset with me.

I'm not.

Second, the November 29 article looks interesting. If it's short, that means I've got to read the article and add a bit from the article to the paragraph, right?

Yes.

What do you mean "We get a lot of FAs tagged by WP:MA? I'm sorry. I don't know what that means. I'm always interested in history, so yes, once I understand what you're referring to. Corinne (talk) 01:05, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

I mean that a lot of Featured Articles that we see at WP:TFA have a tag from Wikiproject Middle Ages on their talk pages, that is, those guys have decided that the article is one they're interested in. On the upside, the writing tends to be good, and the writers are knowledgeable and friendly. On the downside, there's a bit of a learning curve. But sure, I'll start giving you those. - Dank (push to talk) 01:29, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh. Thanks! Corinne (talk) 01:35, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

With Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 29, 2015, and TFAs in general, time is of the essence, as the lawyers say. I'd prefer not to notify the nominator until they have a summary to look at, and Brian and Chris would like for me to notify nominators as soon as possible ... they'd like for nominators to have a couple of weeks to work on the article, if it needs work, before it hits the Main Page. If you'd like to do some research on how to handle these Middle Ages articles before you give it a try, then I'll take this one and you can do the next one. - Dank (push to talk) 14:27, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

O.K. I'll do that. Corinne (talk) 15:23, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank, was I supposed to do the summary for Israel the Grammarian (Nov. 29)? Is that why you said "Time is of the essence?" If so, I'm very sorry. I guess it's because my talk page is getting so full of different things that, if you assigned it to me, I didn't see it or didn't remember. Regarding doing research on articles about the Middle Ages/medieval history, I don't know where I'm supposed to look. I found a list of past featured articles organized by subject matter, and in the history section there is a long list, and I saw only one on the Middle Ages, History of Lithuania (1219–95), but when I clicked on it I only saw the full article. Did you want me to look at TFA summaries of those types of articles? If so, where would I find them? Corinne (talk) 23:19, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

This is the list of Middle-Ages FAs. Just pick out a few that interest you and read the lead sections. Don't worry about getting up to speed; I'll always go through after you're finished. I'll try to be clearer about which articles I'm giving you. - Dank (push to talk) 01:22, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank Thank you. I've already read one, and I will read more. I have to ask you, though, something that puzzles me. You said to read the lead sections. Does that mean that the summaries we write for the Main Page then become the lead of the article? I know leads can be quite a bit longer than the summaries we write. So, what is the connection between the summaries we write and the leads of articles? What am I supposed to be looking for, or learning from, in the leads of the articles on the Middle Ages? Corinne (talk) 21:43, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

My work at TFA hasn't usually been reproduced in the article lead, unless someone decided they liked the way I put something. It's not necessary to read our Middle Ages articles, if it doesn't feel like a useful exercise. - Dank (push to talk) 21:52, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Dank Thanks for your reply. Sorry to bother you. I know you're usually busy. I guess you thought that it would help me to become more familiar with the subject matter, and I'm sure you're right. I've read (and copyedited) a few Middle Ages articles, but I certainly wouldn't mind reading more. Corinne (talk) 22:44, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Oba Chandler

If you find time for it, please take a look at the article about Oba Chandler. It is a article that I have edited a lot over the years. So any improvements etc are welcomed. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 09:32, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

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Is this what you meant to say?

Tryptofish I am not very knowledgeable about the workings of ArbCom, but I hated to see what you've been going through recently, and I wanted to express some kind of support for you. I've been reading all the comments on your talk page, and I came across a sentence you wrote that I wanted to ask you about. It's in this edit [7], and it is this sentence:

• If one looks at my initial reaction after the block was lifted, none of what I am doing in this poll would ever have happened if some members of ArbCom (with, let it be noted, some notable exceptions, who you can see commenting wisely in some talk sections above) got defensive and in effect lawyered up, or actually went on an offensive and started making further attacks on me.

I wonder if this is what you really meant to say. Shouldn't it read:

• If one looks at my initial reaction after the block was lifted, none of what I am doing in this poll would ever have happened if some members of ArbCom (with, let it be noted, some notable exceptions, who you can see commenting wisely in some talk sections above) had not got[ten– in American English] defensive and in effect lawyered up, or actually went on an offensive and started making further attacks on me.

Weren't you missing the negative there? This is now early in the discussion, but, if I am right, you may want to correct it so that anyone reading this in the future is not confused by it. If I am wrong, then I guess I don't understand what you were saying. Best regards, Corinne (talk) 23:51, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! You are absolutely correct, and I'll fix that now. Honestly, this whole thing is just frying my brain. But you made a good catch there. (As expected for a good copy-editor!) --Tryptofish (talk) 00:09, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

User:Tryptofish I think the reactions you've gotten to your informal poll are interesting, and probably somewhat predictable. Your friends will support and encourage you, and those editors who are normally contentious will continue to be so, and some seem to be using your page to vent about ArbCom, going a bit off-topic. I can certainly understand your reasons for wanting to conduct the informal poll (may be useful in the future, may influence some ArbCom members either now or later), but at some point I think you will probably say to yourself that further discussion is a waste of your valuable energy, and that you have more important things to do; only you can decide when that will be. I wish you the best, though. Corinne (talk) 00:31, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Understood, truly. And thank you. Barring the very unexpected, this is the last discussion that I plan. Do this, get done with the awful GMO case, and then archive everything at my user talk and go back to content editing. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:30, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and the people who have been sympathetic to me are not just my friends, also some admins and other editors who never posted at my talk before. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:32, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Vaudeville

Rothorpe If you'd like to hear an amusing song, listen to "How can they tell that I'm Irish?" The recording is at the lower right-hand corner in the article on Vaudeville. Be sure to put the volume up to at least 75% on your computer so you can catch as many of the words as possible. Corinne (talk) 02:25, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Almost nothing amuses me nowadays, but I'll give it a try... Rothorpe (talk) 02:39, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

They can 'tell that he's a Mick' because of the accent, presumably. Which was largely impenetrable. However, a good set of pictures to go with it. I couldn't get a sound out of Wikipedia, but loud and (at least in theory) clear at YouTube. Rothorpe (talk) 02:54, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Rothorpe So it didn't amuse you at all? I thought it was a clever song, and sung well. What pictures are you referring to? Corinne (talk) 14:04, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

My hearing isn't perfect and all those years of EFL... The pictures come with the version of the song at https://www.youtube.com. Just type in the title. Rothorpe (talk) 14:17, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

FAC request

Hi Corinne, I would be really grateful if you could do a prose review of this article. Thanks, —Vensatry _(Talk) 07:05, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Vensatry I will. Normally, I would ask you to post a request at the WP:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests page, but since I'm already working on an article there, I can't accept another assignment on that page until I finish that one. I will post questions and concerns here. I skimmed the FAC review page to which you provided a link. I saw there was some discussion of "works predominantly" (but didn't read it carefully). I also wonder about that phrase. The verb "works" has a kind of general meaning; it doesn't say much by itself. I prefer something closer to what she actually does.

• An actress who has featured predominantly in American and British films

• An actress who has appeared mainly in American and British films

• An actress who appears mainly in American and British films

• An actress whose career thus far has been mainly in American and British films

- Corinne (talk) 00:29, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Providing link to the article: Freida Pinto. Corinne (talk) 02:10, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Rothorpe I haven't received a reply from Vensatry, so I'd like to ask you for your thoughts. Corinne (talk) 19:18, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

I like the second one best. Viva the present perfect! Rothorpe (talk) 21:38, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Rothorpe Thanks, and I agree. Here's another one for you. The very next sentence is:

• She was born and raised in Mumbai, India, and decided to become an actress at a young age.

(You'll see in the revision history that I added the comma after "India", following the model of city + state: ...Chicago, Illinois,...) But upon second look, I wondered if it would read better as:

• She was born and raised in Mumbai in India, and decided to become an actress at a young age.

Do you like "in Mumbai, India,..." or "in Mumbai in India,...", or even "in the city of Mumbai in India"? Does the first one look and sound too much like an address? Corinne (talk) 23:07, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Of course she was born and raised in Bombay, India, actually. Thus does English pay for being a world language... Any example which shows the postparenthetical comma after a location is fine by me, as there are so many missing in WP. And I usually go for the shortest version, which that happens to be. Rothorpe (talk) 23:16, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

O.K. I'll leave it as it is, then. Thank you. Corinne (talk) 23:42, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

@Corinne and Rothorpe: Sorry for the delay in getting back; I was terribly busy in real life for the past two days. Actually, I wanted Corinne to review the article. Thanks for the copyedits. I can see some improvements in prose. As for this sentence – 'She was born and raised in Mumbai, India, and decided to become an actress at a young age.' – I don't think a comma is needed after India as the second clause is a dependent one. What say? —Vensatry _(Talk) 09:47, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

I'd say the comma is essential to seal off the parenthesis that is 'India'. Rothorpe (talk) 14:07, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Fine by me. Thanks to both of you! —Vensatry _(Talk) 06:41, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Argentina

I'll leave the credit to you. I also happen to be fairly young and headstrong, so apologies for any consternation that it might have caused you. I'll hop on over to the requests page and see what I can do. dschslava 01:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twomcvms (talk • contribs)

Twomcvms Thank you. No problem. Just a word of caution regarding the requests page: you can only accept one article for copy-editing at a time. When I first started working on that page, I would accept two or three that looked interesting to me and work on all three at the same time. I was told I couldn't do that. You have to finish one, and add the "Done" template, before you can accept another one. Once you accept one, try to finish it in a day or two for a short article and within three or four days for a longer one. The GOCE keeps statistics to show how quickly we get the copy-editing done (you can look for the statistics). Finally, when you finish copy-editing an article, you can post the GOCE template on the talk page of the article, below most of the other things at the beginning of the talk page. See the templates in the box at the upper right corner of my talk page. (Use the first one if you are posting the template on the day you finished the copy-edit. The date and your user name will appear automatically. Use the second one if you are posting on a later day. You would manually enter the date you finished the copy-edit and manually add your user name. Be sure to put your user name, not mine.)

If you have any questions, you can ask User:Baffle gab1978. Oh, and don't forget to sign your posts with four tildes ~~~~ You forgot to sign your post just above. Corinne (talk) 02:07, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Corinne I'll just lurk about in the depths of wikipedia and catch the little errors for now, as I'm going to be really busy soon. Thanks for the advice.

dschslava 02:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:58, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Elections

Vsmith I see in my watch list that a lot of editors I know (through editing) have gotten a notice about the current ArbCom (or is it Arbitration Committee, or is that the same thing?) elections. I didn't get one. Am I allowed to vote? If not, why are some other editors who are not administrators being invited to vote? Corinne (talk) 01:48, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

From the Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015 page

An editor is eligible to vote who:

(i) has registered an account before Wednesday 00:00, 28 October 2015

(ii) has made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday 00:00, 1 November 2015 and,

(iii) is not blocked from the English Wikipedia at the time of their vote.

I'd say you are quite eligible. I don't know what criteria the mass mailing used - maybe those who voted last year (?) Vsmith (talk) 03:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Vsmith Thank you, V. I did vote last year (I think). Maybe it's because I changed my user name within the past year. Corinne (talk) 03:08, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Ah, that's just what I came here to say. Rothorpe (talk) 03:12, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Tryptofish I read your recommendations regarding the best people to vote for in the ArbCom elections, but now I can't find them. I wanted to look at them again, and then vote. Can you direct me to them? Thanks. Corinne (talk) 16:55, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

User:Tryptofish/ACE2015. Also, if you go to the candidates description page or most other election-related pages, there is a template at the bottom that links to all the voters guides (but of course we all know that mine is the best!). Thanks for asking! As for that notice of eligibility to vote, I see that a whole lot more went out today, so they seem to be coming in successive batches. (I also saw that some notices were attempted to be delivered to article talk pages, so it's not the most infallible software.) In fact, I got mine today, even though I already voted yesterday! --Tryptofish (talk) 17:43, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Tryptofish Thanks. I just voted. I clicked on "Submit Vote". Then it gave me an option to save a "receipt" as a record of my vote, but I didn't need that, so I hit the back arrow in the upper left corner of my screen, and it said "Hello, Corinne, you have voted..." then gave an option saying that if I wanted to vote again, I could, but I didn't want to. Then I used the back arrow a few times to get back to my talk page. I hope that using the back arrow doesn't cancel out the votes I submitted. Corinne (talk) 22:36, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

You are very welcome, of course. And I see that you finally got the invitation, below! There is a way to check whether your vote was recorded (or if you need to do it over). If you go to any of the election pages, look for a link to the Voters Log. It's a list of everyone who has voted. You can page through until the end, and look to see if you are listed there or not. If you are listed, you are all set. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:41, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Tryptofish I found my user name there, so I guess my vote was recorded. I'm sorry to bother you again. I wanted to ask you about something I saw on your talk page and maybe other talk pages, too. It's "tl;dr". What is that? Corinne (talk) 22:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

No problem (and I'm watchlisting your talk page now). TL;DR stands for "too long; didn't read". --Tryptofish (talk) 22:56, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Oh... Thank you. I can see how that could be useful. Corinne (talk) 22:58, 24 November 2015 (UTC) Right after I saved this, I saw a notice at the top of the page that said something like "This month is Asian Month", but it contains a grammatical or typographical error. Corinne (talk) 23:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC) Now I don't know where I saw it. It's not on the Main Page, and it's not at the top of my watchlist or talk page. It was one of those banners that one sees from time to time at the top of either the main page or the watchlist page. Corinne (talk) 23:02, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

There are pages like MediaWiki talk:Watchlist-details, where various messages of this sort are prepared (other categories of notices are described at the top). I wasn't able to track down which kind of site notice that particular one is, but I think the place you could report that, if you want to, is Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Asian Month. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:13, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you again, Tryptofish. I looked at that talk page, then looked again for the banner and couldn't find it. I decided not to leave a comment, at least not at present. I wonder if it was removed as soon as it was added because someone noticed the typo. Corinne (talk) 23:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

No, I've been seeing it on and off for several days. When I see it, I very quickly (as in, without even reading it) click on the "dismiss" button, after which I never see it again as long as I am logged in. But if you delete all cookies on your browser, and/or exit and restart the browser and log in again, the notice will come back. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:44, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

I just found it. It's at the top of Climate of Argentina, an article I've been copy-editing. However, it has been changed since I saw it twenty minutes ago. Before, it had a phrase that included "you contributions". Of course, "you" should have been "your". But that phrase is not there anymore. Now there is another error. It says this month is "the Wikipedia Asian Month". There should be no "the". I think I'm not going to say anything about it. Probably someone from the project will notice it. Corinne (talk) 23:59, 24 November 2015 (UTC) And why is it at the top of the "Climate of Argentina" article? Is Argentina now considered part of Asia? ;) Corinne (talk) 00:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

The World Is Flat. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:03, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

I know

There should be a en dash in that article. So you are correct. From what I can see atleast. If you have more questions or thoughts please contact me again. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 22:23, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Joyce Vincent

Hi, Corinne. You might be interested in investigating the moving date of birth in this article (which incidentally tells a remarkable story). I left a note on the talk page. Rothorpe (talk) 03:59, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Rothorpe Thank you. I'm not so interested in the changing date of birth, but I did read the article. It's quite a sad story. She seems to have had so much potential. I was puzzled by "bedsit". We don't use that word here. I read the article linked at the word, and saw the equivalent words and phrases (SRO and rooming house), but even those are not really common here, even in the big cities. More common are studio apartments (besides regular 1- or 2-bedroom apartments). I also thought it was interesting that no one at the public housing agency noticed, or was notified, that the other half of Vincent's monthly rent was not being paid. Here, I think the accumulating arrears for the part of the rent for which she was responsible would not have gone on for so long. The article also said Vincent's television and heat continued to be paid through automatic debits and "debt forgiveness". Did she really have that much money in her bank account that her bills could be paid every month for more than two years? I didn't read the link at "debt forgiveness", but I doubt we'd find anything like that here. There are a couple of puzzling things about this story. Corinne (talk) 17:12, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Corinne. I remember reading this. It looks as if I forgot to reply. Sorry! Do you still want to elaborate? Rothorpe (talk) 02:36, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Henry Hoʻolulu Pitman

Hello, I am not sure if you already did this or not but was wondering if you proofread the footnotes for any problem as well as the main body. Thank you. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:01, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

User:KAVEBEAR I guess I had not proofread the footnotes. I guess I didn't even realize those were footnotes. Thank you for pointing this out to me. As I copy-edited the footnotes, I also made a few more small edits to the main text. I changed "his" to "Henry's" twice to avoid ambiguity. If you prefer "Pitman" or "Hoʻolulu", we can change them. Corinne (talk) 00:35, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Srimanthudu

I feel very happy to inform that Srimanthudu, an article you copy-edited upon a request at WP:GOCE/REQ, has become a GA today. It also happens to be my 20th consecutive one (a streak of 20-0) and i thank you for the c/e which helped me a lot. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Pavanjandhyala Thank you for telling me, and congratulations! I was glad to help. Corinne (talk) 18:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

barnstar

		The Copyeditor's Barnstar
		For improving Trevor Kincaid. LavaBaron (talk) 00:49, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, LavaBaron! It's much appreciated. Corinne (talk) 13:54, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Devadasu

Hi Corrine, this is Srivin, thanks for copyediting Devadasu, regarding the "clarification needed" tags, I dont think it is needed anyway. Please nominate the article. Srivin (talk) 13:38, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Srivin First, you're welcome. Second, I looked again and re-read my edits, including the two "clarification needed" tags and accompanying notes to editors. Those things really need clarification. If you don't clarify them, there is ambiguity, which is not good in expository writing. These are rather simple to clear up. Just answer the questions that I posed in the notes that accompany the tags. If you need help, perhaps Kailash29792 can help you. Third, I've never nominated an article for anything. Baffle gab1978, am I permitted to do that? If so, how do I do that? Corinne (talk) 14:05, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Srivin, you have already nominated the article for GA status. All you have to do is, clarify the issues and wait for a reviewer to take up. Pavanjandhyala (talk) 02:13, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

What was that template?

Baffle gab1978 What was that template you gave me a while back that I could put at the top of an article to ask editors not to edit the article until I am finished copy-editing? I couldn't find it on my talk page. Corinne (talk) 02:08, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Not quite "fixed the ping", as pings require a signature to be placed in the same edit as when they are made/corrected. Also, I got pinged for this as well likely because you transcluded Baffle gab1978's user page. At any rate, the template should be {{GOCE inuse}}. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 02:14, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Drcrazy102 Thank you! I am so sorry. I hadn't pinged anyone in a while, and I got the template wrong. I am very sorry about that. Corinne (talk) 02:27, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

No worries Corinne, ironically I just finished an updated version of WP:Notifications when I got notified via the transclusion. Have a good week; Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 10:52, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi Corinne, I don't see your pings because I've turned them off in my preferences. I don't particularly like pings; i think they're analagous to shouting at someone across a room rather than walking up to the person and speaking directly. "Oi, you over there—yeh you! I've just mentioned you in a conversation, you'd better listen cos we're all talking about you over here." That's not my style—your page is on my watchlist anyway, and you can always use {{whisperback}} if needed. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 23:35, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Text formatting question

I have just finished copy-editing the article Edith Södergran. Throughout the article, but especially in the section Edith Södergran#Bibliography, the titles of some of her poems or collections of poems, which are mostly in Swedish, are written first in italics and followed (usually in parentheses) by the translation of the title in English, in Roman (regular) font and enclosed in quotation marks.

I wondered whether the quotation marks were needed around the English translation of the titles. I had seen somewhere in the MoS that translated titles should not be in italics and should not be in quotation marks, but now I can't find it. If you can show me the relevant guideline in the MoS, I would really appreciate it.

I even wonder whether the titles in Swedish need to be in italics. I wonder whether it makes a difference whether it is a title of a poem or a title of a book, because in English, according to the MoS, a book is a major work and is supposed to be italicized while a poem is a minor work and is to be in quotation marks. Does that hold true even if the title is in a foreign language?

Rwood128 Do you know anything about this? Corinne (talk) 02:09, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

• Starting with the quotation marks, see this Manual of Style entry. There it says give the translation in parentheses without special formatting and in the example there is no quotation marks. As for whether or not the main title should be in italics the same page makes the divide depending on if it is a "short" or "long" poem. Long poems are in italics, short ones are in quotes. --Stabila711 (talk) 08:27, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Stabilla711! That's very helpful. Corinne (talk) 13:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Red user name

Drcrazy102 I saw an invitation to vote on wishlists at the top of my page, so I looked, saw a category titled "Editing", clicked on that, and read the various proposals. There is one I thought would be very helpful, so I voted support (had to correct an asterisk to a number symbol) here: [8]. After I saved, I saw that my user name was red. Why is that? It's also red in Commons (the pictures). Corinne (talk) 03:10, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

P.S. Can you help me with the question I posed in the section above this? Corinne (talk) 03:11, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

That's more because you haven't created a profile page on WP:Meta or WP:Commons. They are separate wiki-places, as well as WP:Wikinews. Each one uses a "different" login, even though Editors have a "universal" login - hence the fact that you could edit without creating a Meta or Commons account first, because you already had one. There are a lot of technical details which I don't have a clue about, but this is the bare-bones reason for why you have a "red user link"; you don't have a profile on those servers - yet. Once you make a profile page on those servers, the links should change to the normal blue colour which indicates that the page-link works, i.e. that there is a profile page at the target URL. Hope I made some/enough sense in that ramble.

I'm just responding to your question/s about the diff-link template from User talk:Drcrazy102#Murder of Meredith Kercher, I'll be a few minutes while I hunt down the coding parameters of the templates to better explain what I was implying, then I'll see about finding something for your questions above but it should be somewhere in WP:MOS, probably WP:MOS#Naming maybe?. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 03:40, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Drcrazy102 – On another issue, I could never remember what the template was for putting quotes in green, for example in a talk page discussion, so when I saw it just now, I added it to my list of useful templates at the top right of my talk page (above). Would you mind looking at what I put there and correcting me if I wrote anything wrong? I wasn't sure whether quotation marks were needed. Is there a time when one would use quotation marks, or are they usually not used? If there are instances where one would use quotation marks, does it matter if the quotation marks are green (that is, placed inside the template's curly brackets), or black (that is, placed outside the curly brackets)? Corinne (talk) 16:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Dunno (Don't know), but I would probably lean towards "outside brackets" since the quotations are not actually part of the quote. Seems to be more of a personal preference on coding. Cheers, 03:35, 8 December 2015 (UTC)