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::::Thankyou, these things do tend to happen but sometimes it is just coincidental. I did see when I uploaded the image that a previous one had been deleted but couldn't find any reasoning for it so assumed it must have been a mistake by a bot or something? My interests tend to focus on Australia as a whole, across the spectrum from culture to politics, but I have particular interests in Queensland and Brisbane. All the best--[[User:Caltraser55|Caltraser55]] ([[User talk:Caltraser55#top|talk]]) 00:36, 5 January 2020 (UTC
== [[Gold Coast, Queensland]] ==
The revisions you made to the lede seem somewhat inaccurate. Firstly this article isn't about [[City of Gold Coast]] (or we wouldn't have two articles) so you can't say that it is officially known as that. It's the same issue as [[Brisbane]] vs [[City of Brisbane]] and [[Sunshine Coast]] vs [[Sunshine Coast Region]] etc, where the prevailing consensus is that there is a general meaning of the place name as a different geographic area than just that of the local government area bearing the same name. In past discussions on the Talk page what most people appear to understand as "the Gold Coast" seems to be "the bit I've gone to on my holidays" which appears to mean the coastal strip that extends from The Spit south. The ABS treats it as a a trans-border urban area for statistical purposes, so you have to be more careful with claims about being the Nth biggest place. The local government area is 2nd most populous in Queensland (true) but this article isn't about the local government area. The claim of being the 6th most populous city in Australia from memory depends on the inclusion of Tweed Valley (which ABS includes and I think ABS excludes some of the hinterland in the local government area) but this definition of "Gold Coast" is inconsistent with in the Wikipedia definition of the "Gold Coast" as is "in Qld", which I think is why the previous lede makes explicit mention of it. As is generally the case, complexities are best explained in the article body in full, and not abbreviated into an inaccurate shorthand version in the lede or as a field of the infobox. As a personal opinion, I think it's a bit strong to say it is "often" called G.C., I don't think it has that much traction in everyday usage. A quick trawl of the Brisbane Times doesn't turn it up as a common term (I used Brisbane Times as Gold Coast Bulletin is behind a paywall). "Sometimes" might be better. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 11:48, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
:Hi Kerry, I'm not sure exactly what you mean here? The Gold Coast is a city, I'm aware the city council includes a regional area of the hinterland but I'm not sure why that matters? The Brisbane city council covers Moreton Bay and the islands which is a regional area. And Tweed Heads might be part of the regional conurbation, but it also isn't in Queensland, and therefore not part of Gold Coast city.--[[User:Caltraser55|Caltraser55]] ([[User talk:Caltraser55#top|talk]]) 12:33, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
::This article is about the geographical area that generally known as "the Gold Coast" in an unbounded area (officially gazetted as a "population centre"). It is not the article about the "City of Gold Coast", which is a precisely bounded area. You have said they are the same thing. Your comments about how populous the Gold Coast is supported by citations that incorporate the Tweed Heads area but you removed that fact so the statement is now misleading. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 22:48, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
:::What are you talking about??? [[Local government areas of Queensland]], it has City of Gold Coast, I don't see a LGA of the Gold Coast?--[[User:Caltraser55|Caltraser55]] ([[User talk:Caltraser55#top|talk]]) 00:12, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
::::You can't just go deleting other people's works without explaining why. The City of Gold Coast is the council, the article [[Gold Coast, Queensland]] which also includes the hinterland, just as City of Brisbane article is the council page, and [[Brisbane]] is the city including its mountains, islands, bay, etc. You clearly don't understand what the difference between a council article and a city is.--[[User:Caltraser55|Caltraser55]] ([[User talk:Caltraser55#top|talk]]) 00:18, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
:::::I am explaining. The difference is beween a contiguous urban area (a "town" or "city" in the informal sense, or as the Qld Govt likes to call them "population centres" or as the Australian Bureau of Statistics likes to call them "Significant Urban Areas") and a local government area (which may happen to have "City" in its name or may not, e.g. [[Toowoomba Region]] is a local government area that contains the "city" of [[Toowoomba]]). Now contiguous urban areas grow organically all the time (people build more houses every day) and are not officially bounded by the Queensland Government, who merely designate a central point in the Qld Place Names database. It is the ABS who tend to track the growth of urban areas and redraw their statistical boundaries accordingly. Local government areas have fixed boundaries (determined by the Queensland Government) and remain the same for considerable periods of time; these can be viewed in the Queensland Globe. The population figure being reported in the lede of the "Gold Coast, Queensalnd" happens to be the figure for the ABS Significant Urban Area for "Gold Coast - Tweed". Now it is arguable whether we should report that population data at all given it includes part of the Tweed Shire but, if it is reported the "Tweed" must be acknowledged as contributing to it. You can see the maps the ABS use at Quickstats. indeed if you look at [https://quickstats.censusdata.abs.gov.au/census_services/getproduct/census/2016/quickstat/UCL302001?opendocument Gold Coast part of the Gold Coast Tweed urban centre], you see a different map to [https://quickstats.censusdata.abs.gov.au/census_services/getproduct/census/2016/quickstat/LGA33430?opendocument City of Gold Coast local government area], which is because the urban area of Gold Coast and the local government area of Gold Coast aren't the same thing. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 01:17, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
::::::You might want to read the [[Talk:Gold Coast, Queensland]] archives as this issue of the lack of precise definition of what is "Gold Coast" and what is "City of Gold Coast" crops up from time to time. Because of the ongoing vagueness of what [[Gold Coast, Queensland]] does or doesn't cover, I proposed some years back to merge the two articles but this was resisted as others felt the term "the Gold Coast" described something different to the local government area. The nub of the difference seemed to boil down to "common usage" to describe the urban area (but not the hinterland) and/or to describe the holiday area (the beach suburbs). People's "common usage" of "Gold Coast" as the urban area along the coast does have a historical basis because it appears to reflect the area of the City of Gold Coast prior to 1992. In 1992, Albert Shire was absorbed into the Gold Coast which brought in much of the hinterland and the northern suburbs not near beaches (this was very controversial at that time and may have hardened the feelings of GOld Coast locals that the "true Gold Coast" was purely the urban areas -- it is impossible to know if the people arguing for the distinction between the articles at the time were locals or not (but one certainly was). This [https://gisservices.information.qld.gov.au/arcgis/rest/directories/historicalscans/cad_scans/cad-map-town-gold-coast-sh4-1975.jpg 1975 map] shows what City of Gold Coast looked like at that time, which is the area that most people in discussions about the difference between the two articles seem to regard as "the Gold Coast" as distinct from the City of Gold Coast. I note the article was called "The Gold Coast" for many years but there was a big push to remove "The" from article titles and anything that didn't officially have "The" in its name got stripped out. Now of course, the consenus may have changed since then and perhaps people would be happy to merge the articles as being about the same thing, as you seem inclined towards by saying "Gold Coast officially known as City of Gold Coast". If you want to test this, go to the Talk pages of both and propose it. That will either result in a merger or a reenwed effort to clarify the distinction. I'd probably prefer a merger myself, but while they are separate, we have to preserve the distinction that has justified keeping them separate in the past and which your changes didn't reflect. Or to put it another way, your changes to the lede did not reflect the consensus to have different articles for different purposes, but I am not personally committed to having 2 separate articles. But we can't have a half-way situation of two articles purporting to be about the same thing. [[User:Kerry Raymond|Kerry]] ([[User talk:Kerry Raymond|talk]]) 02:53, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
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