Commons talk:Structured data

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Welcome to the general talk page of Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons. See also specialized talk pages about data modeling and about Lua.

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Inception for files where only Upload date is available

Is there a preferred way to add SDC inception (P571) claims for files with unknown creation date, but known {{Upload date}}? As far as I see, there's no "upload date" qualifier on Wikidata. Is it ok to simply use the upload date for inception (P571)? Fl.schmitt (talk) 20:30, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

@Fl.schmitt: how about "unknown value" with qualifier latest date (P1326) and the upload date. - Jmabel ! talk 04:30, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel - that's a good solution! I've used it already at Karte Bodensee Birnau.png - and {{Information}} is able to use latest date (P1326) as default if there's no date parameter - great! I wasn't able to set "unknown date" manually, but pywikibot was able to create such a claim with snaktype "somevalue". Fl.schmitt (talk) 07:16, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

VIRIN property proposal

See d:Wikidata:Property proposal/VIRIN. Multichill (talk) 13:27, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

SDC OpenStreetMap way ID (P10689) / OpenStreetMap relation ID (P402) / OpenStreetMap node ID (P11693)?

It seems that there's no consensus yet on using OpenStreetMap way ID (P10689) (or OpenStreetMap relation ID (P402) and OpenStreetMap node ID (P11693), respectively) in SDC. Using those properties would allow using SPARQL queries based on OSM IDs, like https://w.wiki/B3sq or https://w.wiki/B3su - with the advantage that such a query could return multiple views of an OSM map feature (similar to Google Maps Images for a map object). What's your opinion on this proposal? Fl.schmitt (talk) 06:19, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Better example: https://w.wiki/B3t6 ("Big Ben", London) Fl.schmitt (talk) 06:33, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Query for current usage of P10689, grouped by OSM ID: https://w.wiki/B3tC Fl.schmitt (talk) 06:37, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

If i remember correctly, the opposition to using OSM identifiers in Wikidata was that the OSM identifiers weren't stable. The proposed method then was to add Wikidata items to OSM and link from OSM to Wikidata. This would also create a permanent identifier to OSM for an entity. However, the problem with this approach was that it is impossible to know in the wiki Lua/template code if there was anything on the OSM side, which is a problem when the template creates links to OSM or uses OSM location in maps. Soving this for inwiki use would require adding it to software (Lua/Wikidata) and afaik only workaround is to add these as properties. In SPARQL however images can be queried using federated queries ( https://w.wiki/B3tZ or https://w.wiki/B3tt), but with performance penalty. --Zache (talk) 07:05, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Photos don’t have OSM way/relation/node IDs, only the depicted places have them. Therefore I don’t think these properties should be used directly in SDC: add them to the appropriate Wikidata item and link to that using depicts (P180). Those can also be queried, using federation:

#defaultView:ImageGrid
select ?place ?placeLabel ?thumb with {
  select * {
    service <https://query.wikidata.org/sparql> {
      bind('54486345' as ?way_id).
      ?place wdt:P10689 ?way_id;
             rdfs:label ?placeLabel.
      filter (lang(?placeLabel) = "en").
    }
  } 
} as %places where {
  include %places. 
  ?image wdt:P180 ?place;
         schema:url ?thumb.
}

Try it! (By the way, as you can see from these results, your example of finding the Big Ben / Elizabeth Tower by the ID https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/54486345 is wrong: it’s the nearby St Margaret’s Church. This doesn’t invalidate your example, but it does mean that the files your query finds have incorrect SDC and should be fixed.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 13:35, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tacsipacsi: Thanks a lot - that's in fact interesting, I didn't check the OSM ID for the Big Ben example. Good hint, I will look at it. Regarding "Photos don’t have OSM way/relation/node IDs, only the depicted places have them": Here I disagree - that's exactly the point of my question. Of course, there's no such thing like a 1:1 relation between a photo and it's object (insofar I agree). But there are 429,892 OSM tags which have Commons Files or Categories "attached". So while OSM entities have Commons content (and Categories/Files can reference OSM objects using {{On OSM}} or {{OSMLink}}), there seems to be a practical need for such relations. Usage Bot has collected more than 200,000 commons files used on OSM. I admit that OSM identifiers may not be stable, but is this a practical problem? This looks like a standard maintenance task to be done by a bot - periodically check such ID references for validity.

Regarding depicts (P180): Using that property in SDC works only in cases if there's a wikidata item as target. But on OSM, the wikimedia_commons or image attributes are used on objects like hiking sign posts, wayside shrines or other "non-notable" things. Especially for hiking sign posts (but also for fountains, sculptures and other 3d objects), it would be very useful to have multiple images available, showing different perspectives of that object. On OSM, there's currently no "recommended" way to reference multiple images, leading to an incoherent use of the respective tags. Assigning an OSM node ID to a Commons file would allow a 1:n relation between OSM objects and Commons files. Fl.schmitt (talk) 17:34, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

To add to previous comments: OpenStreetMap way ID (P10689), OpenStreetMap relation ID (P402) & OpenStreetMap node ID (P11693) shouldn't be used here at all. It's just data pollution. Multichill (talk) 20:05, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Test environment for SDC?

Is there a installation for testing SDC? I found https://test.wikipedia.org but that doesn't have SDC. https://test-commons.wikimedia.org seems to be closed.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 19:06, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

On https://commons.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org many testing should be possible but you might need to request rights on Beta Wikidata to create properties. GPSLeo (talk) 19:31, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

YouTube SDC

Please see Commons:Bots/Work requests#Add P1651 YouTube video ID structured data from "source" attribute of Filedesc template for the sample schema, which is more or less identical to Commons:Structured data/Modeling#Upload from a platform like Panoramio, Geograph or Flickr -- DaxServer (talk) 10:32, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

sdc experts? how to query based on camera data?

@XRay asked in Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2024/09/Photographs_by_technical_parameters#c-XRay-20240925100400-Voting, how to search for files based on iso values, etc.

is it currently possible? any sdc experts? RZuo (talk) 16:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, it looks like I have no idea. It's a bit out of context. For example, you can query with haswbstatement or with SPARQL. The first way is rather inflexible, the second is not quite as simple. IMO the ISO value is not searchable with haswbstatement. --XRay 💬 17:48, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

By the way, you can find out what you can query with ?action=cirrusdump. However, this also shows how little can actually be queried. --XRay 💬 17:50, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Here is a little bit documentation: [1] --XRay 💬 17:52, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

i saw your question over there and thought that it should be raised to more users' attention. if no one has any solutions then a feature request should be filed on phab. RZuo (talk) 18:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

You're right about that. The query options are relatively inflexible. SPARQL requires a lot of knowledge. I mentioned things because I don't think the extensive removal of categories makes sense. I query the source code a lot with regular expressions, so deleting would be counterproductive. I think the SDC options for flexible searches with the normal search function are important, but unfortunately there is far too little available. --XRay 💬 04:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

@RZuo: Basically query can be done like this, but there are couple of reasons why SDC is not currently substitute for categories. One is that there is that to be useful values are used in combination with other categories. Easiest way afaik to do this is using Petscan which can filter articles based on multiple categories. This is accessible for normal users. In theory some of use cases can be currently done also using SPARQL (example below), there is performance limitations and not all things can be done using SPARQL because information needed for combined queries are not accessible from SPARQL.

:# P6789 = ISO speed 
:# P2151 = Focal length
:# P6790 = f-number
:# P6757 = exposure time
:SELECT * WHERE {
:  ?file wdt:P6790  ?aperture .
:  ?file schema:url ?image.
:  FILTER (?aperture > 14) 
:}
:LIMIT 10
:

Try it!

--Zache (talk) 08:36, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Emails

Why am I now receiving unsolicited emails about this? I complained back in 2021 about the intrusive notifications, and now someone has the lack of awareness to start emailing me to do an interview. Who in Wikimedia authorised this? STOP. Cnbrb (talk) 09:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Why would a person doing research interviews have any idea that you asked someone else not to contact you? - Jmabel ! talk 14:01, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

If you read what I wrote, you might get an inkling that being pestered about this project is not entirely welcome. And that's not how privacy works. Why would a person doing research interviews assume that I want to receive emails about something I have already expressed disinterest in? Sounds like lax use of personal data to me. Cnbrb (talk) 15:48, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

On your user page is the invitation "Email this user". If you do not wish to receive unsolicited emails you can turn that off in your account preferences. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

"Publish changes" does nothing

I have changed the geocoordinates of File:Kreuzung L489 - panoramio.jpg in wikitext, because I know better than Panoramio where this picture has been taken. However, now I'm getting the Commons:Structured_data/Reconciliation warning. Switching to the SDC tab, I can add the new coordinates and remove the old ones, but the "Publish changes" button does nothing. No HTTP request. There is an error in the developer console saying Error: View mediainfoview does not exist, but this error already appears when loading the page. "Remove all" removes the coordinates from the list, but no corresponding HTTP request happens, and when reloading the page, the coordinates are back to the way they were, including the discrepancy warning. Scytale (talk) 22:54, 28 October 2024 (UTC)