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Commons:Deletion requests/Post-1923 works by Ludovico Cavaleri

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Post-1923 works by Ludovico Cavaleri

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This is a complex case, so bear with me. Works by Italian artists who died 1940 or later were in copyright in Italy in 1996 due to 50pma + wartime extensions of 6 years for works published before 1948. Therefore any works published 1923 or later by Ludovico Cavaleri (died 1942), like the above, remain in copyright in the United States until at least 2019. These images are tagged with OTRS permission, but the permission is not from the author or their heirs, but from the Cariplo Foundation, who owns the physical paintings. Despite their statement to the contrary in OTRS, I do not believe the Cariplo Foundation is likely to be the copyright holder of these works, as rights to fine art are normally reserved to the authors in Europe and not transferred to buyers or galleries. I've sent e-mail to the Cariplo Foundation requesting clarification. --Dcoetzee (talk) 03:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Keep Please see a similar request here. Conclusion: reliable statement of ownership of the rights by OTRS ticket. OTRS agents can never go into detective mode and request original contracts or similar as proof. --M.casanova (talk) 07:13, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not acting as an OTRS agent but as a Commons administrator. I contacted them directly using my personal e-mail account. I don't need original contracts, all I want is some kind of official statement from the Cariplo Foundation that they own the copyright to the paintings and not just the photographs. If you're authorized to make such a statement, please do so. Dcoetzee (talk) 09:38, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The response I received was: "La Fondazione Cariplo è proprietaria dei tre dipinti che mi ha segnalato, e pertanto, in base al diritto italiano, è titolare di ogni altro diritto riferito al bene." [The Cariplo Foundation is the owner of three paintings mentioned, and therefore, according to the Italian law, is entitled to any other rights related to the asset.] I remain skeptical of this statement - the respondent seems to believe that merely owning the paintings confers their copyright as well, and that is simply not how Italian law works. I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to attempt to explain this, but at the moment I'm maintaining that this is further evidence that the OTRS statement is illegitimate. Dcoetzee (talk) 15:14, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    We need a native Italian speaker to tell us if "proprietaria" has a connotation of copyright ownership, more so than "owner" does in English. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 08:15, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Since we know that, in Italy, owning a work does not mean that you own the copyright, the Foundation's statement is wrong on its face. "We own the paintings... therefore" is wrong. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 11:15, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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