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Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Metalist Stadium

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Files in Category:Metalist Stadium

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No general FOP in the Ukraine only a fair use provision for news reporting; commons cant host under fair use.

LGA talkedits 21:12, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you ignore the stand ? LGA talkedits 21:59, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Do you find the part of the stand visible is a work of art? I guess it is the simplest possible shape for a stand of a stadium — NickK (talk) 22:20, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is architecture which is what counts, what I or anyone considers art is not relevant in the case of architecture. LGA talkedits 22:26, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this may be considered architecture, but it does not pass COM:TOO: you cannot build a stand any simpler than an inclined plain with benches – NickK (talk) 22:32, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am not aware of TOO being applied to one off architecture constructions, only mass produced living accommodations so do you have a source for that. LGA talkedits 22:41, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here a Soviet magazine on construction provides analysis of typical projects of sport venues. As this projects were adopted in USSR on official level, there is no doubt that they were mass produced. There is no evidence that this stand has any difference from any other stand at any other stadium: there was no creativity involved in its creation, you make an inclined plain and you install rows of benches. This is a work of construction, but not of a construction art — NickK (talk) 23:50, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
COM:EVID that the Façade is out of copyright ? LGA talkedits 21:59, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Ukraine Law on Copyright defines "work of architecture" as "a work of construction and landscape design art (drawings, sketches, models, erected buildings and facilities, parks, residential area layouts, etc.)" "work of construction" and is therefore covered. LGA talkedits 21:59, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You misinterpret it. Ukrainian original provides work of ((construction and landscape design) art) (твір у галузі мистецтва спорудження будівель і ландшафтних утворень) and not work of (construction) and (landscape design art) (it would have been твір у галузі спорудження будівель і мистецтва ландшафтних утворень in Ukrainian) — NickK (talk) 22:20, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not me, the WIPO an UN agency who can be considered reliable. LGA talkedits 22:26, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The phrase work of construction and landscape design art can have two interpretations; the one is work of ((construction and landscape design) art), another is work of (construction) and (landscape design art). Ukrainian original (which is the only one having legal power in Ukraine) clearly confirms that the first one is the correct one, as Ukrainian original (твір у галузі мистецтва спорудження будівель і ландшафтних утворень) can be interpreted in only one — NickK (talk) 22:32, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am not going to debate interpretations, the WIPO is a reliable source, if they have it wrong contact them and ask them to change it, until such time COM:PRP has to apply here. LGA talkedits 22:41, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
WIPO is correct, but their formulation is ambigous. If we refer to Ukrainian original we can clearly identify that the right interpretation is work of ((construction and landscape design) art). No Commons rule states that understanding of WIPO translation into English by the user LGA has higher legal power than Ukrainian original adopted by the parliament — NickK (talk) 23:21, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep. As a person knowing Ukrainian, I confirm that word-for-word English translation of the Ukrainian phrase is as follows: "work in the field of the art of construction of buildings and landscape structures". There is no ambiguity in the source language of the law allowing the misinterpretation suggested by user LGA. --Leonid Dzhepko (talk) 07:12, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Question Leonid Dzhepko says the relevant clause is best translated "work in the field of the art of construction of buildings and landscape structures". I ask, what is the meaning of "art" here. In English it has two meanings which might apply, which makes that phrase very ambiguous.
  1. "Art", as in "the art of welding" or any other skilled trade.
  2. "Art", as in a painting or sculpture, a created work which generally has no utilitarian purpose.

Therefore, this phrase in English would almost certainly be read as

  1. "work in the field of using the skills of construction of buildings". You might, if you stretched, read it as
  2. "Art of buildings", but that would not be my interpretation.

.     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 13:17, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This word has two exactly similar meanings in Ukrainian, but the context suggests that lawmaker used it in the second meaning:
  • The copyright law uses the word "art" (мистецтво) in only four contexts: work of art, work of construction and landscape design art, work of fine art and work of applied art, and three of them clearly do not mean skilled trade.
  • Ukrainian dictionary states that the meaning "creative expression of reality or creative activity" is the primary one, while the second one is "perfect skill in a particular field". It is highly improbable that lawmaker wanted to speak of "perfect skill" — this would mean that the government needs to measure whether the skill was perfect
  • Removing the word "art" from Ukrainian original would make the provision still reasonable but with different meaning: твір у галузі спорудження будівель і ландшафтних утворень would mean work in the field of construction and landscape design, while with the word "art" it is твір у галузі мистецтва спорудження будівель і ландшафтних утворень, translated as work of ((construction and landscape design) art).
  • There is a court decision concerning an architectural project where the court using this provision ruled that only artistic side of the work is protected by copyright, while technical solutions are not (об'єктом авторського права є не весь архітектурний проект з його технічними і організаційними рішеннями, а лише його архітектурна частина, тобто, правовій охороні піддається саме художня сторона цих творів)
P.S. The same is relevant for Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:NSC Olimpiyskyi, also featuring only stands of the simplest shape in some photos — NickK (talk) 13:29, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, guys. If you do not understand Ukrainian language, why you deal with this DR? Commons is multi-language project. We have sysops with different language skills. Why English-speaking sysops deal with Ukrainian- or Russian-language DRs? There are a lot of Ukrainian- or Russian native speaking sysops. Let them to deal with this DR if you do not understand our language.--Anatoliy (talk) 14:26, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment As native Ukrainian speaker I confirm that твір у галузі мистецтва спорудження будівель і ландшафтних утворень means works in a field of art of construction and and landscape design. Otherwise Ukrainian original will be твір у галузях мистецтва спорудження будівель і ландшафтних утворень (with plural for of галузь).--Anatoliy (talk) 14:14, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Comment Absent any cited court cases limiting Ukrainian architectural copyright protection COM:PRP should apply, and these images moved to projects that allow for fair use or in the case of enwp ALL of them can be moved ther {{FoP-USonly|Ukraine}}. LGA talkedits 06:43, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: There is no FOP in Ukraine FASTILY 23:29, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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