Commons:Deletion requests/Eiffel Tower by night

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Eiffel Tower by night

• Please delete Category:Tour_Eiffel_at_night and its 29 images. The reason is the modern lightning system copyright of this old building, which has already engendered some prosecution threats. For instance the official site remember it in the paragraph "Are we allowed to publish photos of the Eiffel Tower?".
  However I've got a doubt about the old images like File:Www.photolib.noaa.gov-bigs-wea00602.jpg. JackPotte (talk) 18:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

  For sure not all are a problem : File:Www.photolib.noaa.gov-bigs-wea00602.jpg for example, I'm not sure that any jurist will consider the lightning system as copyrightable in this case : no prejudice since it's secondary on the picture (the main element is not at all the lightning system). In fact the law doesn't protect any lightning system. As you can see in the court decision, they seems to require that there is creativity (and that's the object of the photo is this element) : «Mais attendu que la cour d'appel a souverainement retenu que la composition de jeux de lumière destinés à révéler et à souligner les lignes et les formes du monument constituait une "création visuelle" originale, et, partant, une oeuvre de l'esprit ; qu'il en résultait nécessairement au bénéfice de son auteur un droit de propriété incorporelle, abstraction faite de l'évènement public à l'occasion duquel cette oeuvre lui avait été commandée» I think that most of those image might be considered as a copyright infringement (No FOP in France, and Main element of the image, and Autor right on lightning system), but it should be considered one by one those that can be as a secondary element of the picture for example. Loreleil (talk) 19:02, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

  All right, let's just keep the 4 old following ones:

  File:Eiffel Tower at night cph 3b24446.jpg

  File:Tour Eiffel Citroen.jpg

  File:Tour Eiffel publicité Citroën 1925.jpg

  File:Www.photolib.noaa.gov-bigs-wea00602.jpg. JackPotte (talk) 19:48, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

  No, let's to it the other way around. File a proper deletion request for each image containing a proper reasoning why the image is not free. Multichill (talk) 19:57, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the following can also be kept (with {{FoP-France}}), the tower not being the main subject and covering a limited area of the picture:

• File:Ballon9.jpg
• File:Ballondeparisbynight.jpg
• File:View from the Pont Mirabeau, Paris 25 February 2006.jpg
• File:Place dela Concorde-Obelisk Night-Tour Eiffel.JPG (but I wouldn't fight to keep this one...)
• File:Blue Eiffel Tower with blue sky.jpg

--Eusebius (talk) 19:55, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

 Keep And close this DR. See for example Commons:Deletion requests/File:Eiffel tower fireworks on July 14th Bastille Day.jpg for a photo that was recently kept. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 20:25, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Pieter: this one is a marginal case, same reasoning cannot apply to the whole cat. I'd follow Multichill: close as kept, and eventually reopen DR(s) with only the problematic pictures. --Eusebius (talk) 21:10, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

• I took [File:Tour Eiffel top.jpg] and knew it was potentially going to end up here. I gave my reasons on file page. I wrote to SETE (company which owns copyrights of lighting scheme of the Tower), but got no answer. Its director said in an interview that the company wouldn't likely disapprove "reasonable" use of night photo of tower (which I believe is the case here), and my picture technically shows small part of lighting scheme. These are my reason and understanding. If I were to be very very careful though, I'd delete the picture. Benh (talk) 21:24, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

 Delete the 25 recent pictures: the French TV (M6) has exposed the case of a similar photo over the last year, which had been finally forbidden by the concerned protagonists. JackPotte (talk) 21:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi there! I didn't even know that my image was classified under Eiffel Tower by Night and actually, it's not exactly the greatest image known to man. If you want to delete it, I don't have a major issue. I'll leave it up to you. Helixer (talk) 23:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Imo we should restart this DR in nominating exactly which images are concerned. It is clear that some images can be kept, but it is more important to make a list of images that will be deleted... Esby (talk) 16:34, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• I'm having mail conversation with SETE to discuss about copyright issues. if you could put deletion request on hold for a few days... Without news from me within 3-5 days, you can consider my request wasn't successful. Benh (talk) 18:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

•  Comment I agree that it would be better to be selective and only nominate those that should be deleted. So old images and images where you can't see the light etc. should not be nominated. --MGA73 (talk) 20:14, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
•  Keep per MGA73. --Leoboudv (talk) 20:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

IF we are to continue: Here is the list of all images in the category:

I suggest we add our votes under each line. But lets hope for some good news from Benh. --MGA73 (talk) 20:23, 3 October 2009 (UTC) }}

Sorry, but this is just rubbish. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 20:45, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd agree, I was thinking to sort the possible reasons to allow or not allow deletions. Let me try to sort something out. Esby (talk) 21:20, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Imo we can sort in the following maneer:

• Picture too old to be considered as 'lightning copyrighted case' => kept.

• 
• 
• 
• 

• Picture where COM:DM can be applied directly, which include panorama and when the Eiffel tower is not the main element of the picture => kept.

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Picture where COM:DM might be applied ==> case in unclear.

• 
• 
• File:Place dela Concorde-Obelisk Night-Tour Eiffel.JPG
• 

• Picture with fireworks? Dunno here what to do...

• 
• 
• 
• 

• Details of the Eiffel tower by night, while they don't show the whole lighting, they are still in my opinion infringing the copyright. Imo, they should be deleted as it's like saying a part of an homogen painting might not be copyrighted while the whole is clearly... (part are still under copyright, unless proven they come from another non copyrighted part imo...)

• 
• 
• 
• 
• File:Tour Eiffel top.jpg

• Picture depiticting the Eiffel tower at night, with no ambiguity about what was the main subject... ==> delete.

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Esby (talk) 21:39, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• Close and file individually The issue itself is too complex and the various images differ too much to make this request manageable. ~ trialsanderrors (talk) 16:19, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

---

Kept. (a few Deleted.) As said more times some are ok some are not and others are doubtful. To get a proper discussion the images should be nominated one by one. I deleted the six that Esby marked as "delete" (no doubt that the Eiffel Tower is the main subject and that light is on and that the image is new). Note that the result here is "kept" for the other images does not mean that the final result should be keept. MGA73 (talk) 17:28, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Undeleted one - it was in two DR's --> Commons:Deletion requests/File:Tour Eiffel bleu 01.JPG. --MGA73 (talk) 17:38, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

•  Keep I think pictures should be deleted on a per ocassion basis instead of on a preemptive basis. Doing so diminished Wikiepdia potential as a repository for human knowledge. This pictures illustrate Paris at night, and incidentally they feature Eiffel Tower, in just one part of the picture. They do not feature the Tower mainly on the image, thus they are not a primary violation of the Eiffel Tower illumination copyright holders. Hence, these pictures do not violate french copyright laws. Gussisaurio (talk) 00:31, 4 November 2012 (UTC)